mines are for that etal -- how much countries are developing how much steel we need to make buildings. host: manuel quinones is our first guest this morning. special phone lines today. we want to hear your comments -- coal miners and family members of coal miners, 202-748-8001. otherwise, lines are split up regionally. ,entral and eastern time zones 202-748-8000. mountain pacific time zones, 202-748-8002. let's talk about the power plants themselves. where will you find coal power plants in the united states? guest: they are all over the country. you have a lot of coal-fired power plants in ohio and indiana and missouri. western states, you've got southern states -- it really runs the gamut. if you look at the ohio valley area, an area that has been historically coal heavy because it is easy to transport, you have rivers and rail and a lot of mines nearby, but really, it is distributed across the country. there's a lot of states that have tried to move away from coal. a lot of states have been moving away and a lot of power plants have been shifting, so the map has shrunk. host: that map we are showing our viewers is from the u.s. energy administration. you talk about the market conditions. let's talk about the price of coal in recent years and decades. the cost of coal and how it relates to why it's used or how it's used by different power plants. guest: the industry, their biggest selling point -- coal is cheap and it's not very volatile in price. if you look at a chart of coal prices over time, you will see some spikes but surprisingly little volatility. -- the price it takes cost to produce energy out of that coal. historically, that price has been lower than other fuel sources. natural gas prices have gone down dramatically because of the big fracking shell discoveries in pennsylvania and elsewhere -- shale discoveries in pennsylvania and elsewhere. for many facilities, it is cheaper to bring gaston coal. burn gas than coal. we see such an abundance of gas that has led many authorities to --nge business host: this chart from the u.s. energy information administration -- electricity generation by source. the black line at the top of that is coal from the 1950's. it's share as a percentage of u.s. electricity generation. , started going down in the 1990's. the orange line is the line for natural gas. is natural gas the biggest competitor to coal? guest: it is definitely the biggest competitor now. surpassed coal as a power production fuel in the u.s., that was a big milestone. at first, it started surpassing is slightly and then coal went back to being the dominating force and gas overtook it -- more renewables are coming in. retain largeoal to chunks of the market but for renewables to come up and take more of the marketplace. host: you mentioned the regulatory regime. it is called more heavily regulated than other essential power sources? guest: coal is heavily regulated. the obama administration moved to increase regulations on coal. to power plants to after the power plant. develop regulations that encourage more natural gas use. the clean power plants the trump administration is trying to encouraged power plants to use gas, making it more difficult for them to use coal. also quite is heavily regulated because when you burn it at the power plant, you still have the pollution controls. coal being more polluting when it is burned, the regulations become more stringent. host: manuel quinones has covered the coal industry for how many years now -- guest: i would say about six years. host: eenews.net to see his work. line for coal miners -- for coal miners. regions,and pacific 202-748-8002. we start in york city with michael. good morning. -- new york city with michael. caller: thank you for dedicating some time to this issue. i would natural resources and energy is extremely important. i have a comment in the question. government and private organizations talk about how coal is used and how the president is rolling back obama regulations on coal, it seems like we are trying to bring back horse and buggy technology to the auto industry. i don't understand why coal, which is such a gated technology -- dated technology is still something debated and we are not putting enough emphasis or the industry is not putting enough emphasis on more refined and more technologically advanced energy sources. that much ofry in a power role in the american energy field where they are retarding development for business? i heard you say that coal is relatively inexpensive. is the industry really holding thatdevelopment so much so they are ignoring new technology? guest: that is an interesting question. ,he first part of the question a lot of people in the coal industry would say it is a misconception that it is horse and buggy technology. until very recently, coal was the dominant source of power production. shocks had the energy decades ago, the u.s. government promoted the use of coal because it is such an abundant fuel. there have been a lot of technological advances in how that coal is burned. you have more efficient power plants which can burn less coal cleanly to produce the same amount of electricity. the coal industry has been very active in lobbying against environmental regulations and carbon regulations. they tend not to be friendly to government subsidies for renewable power. the are fighting for the government to focus on developing technologies to burn ly andven more clean trap greenhouse emissions. what they don't want is for the tip the scales in favor of other sources when there is a potential for technological improvement there, too. host: when people talk about clean coal technology, what part of the process are they referring to? guest: it is a married of technologies. -- myriad of technologies. plants that can turn coal into gas before the gas is burned. washington policy circles, when you think of clean coal technology, you're talking about carbon capture and sequestration and utilization. you burn coal at the power plant and trap the carbon emissions and you either store them underground or use them to enhance old oil wells. that is something the obama administration and trump administration and the industry have been working to promote. the problem is it is extremely expensive. especially in the recent market, you have utilities -- coal advocates telling utilities to invest more in these technologies. costs this much to switch to natural gas. why should i invest in this? host: silver spring, maryland. caller: good morning. i'm loving this show right now. during the campaign, trump promised he would bring back coal mining jobs. the president if can bring back those jobs in 2017 when we have an alternative that is even cheaper. can the government bring back those jobs and force us to use something that is more expensive than what we have now? guest: that is a question that has been in the news a lot. was sayingate trump he was going to bring back coal jobs, even the most ardent coal supporters told him you shouldn't make such promises most independent analysts will tell you that things will not go back to the way they used to be. a lot of coal mining companies are reporting a surge. trump is now president, we have people coming in that weren't working, we have more production -- we had a strong bottom in recent years. there was a bump expected anyway. the top administration had moved to try to roll back relations that were costly for the industry. when it comes to big job gains, even coal boosters will agree that they are not going to return to where they used to be. we've lost tens of thousands of coal mining jobs in recent years you might get a few thousand more. it's just not want to be where it used to be. host: as the trump administration said anything about when there might be a big bump in jobs? they are trying to help -- guest: not really. i haven't heard any dates saying it will come at this point. they're moving on the clean power plan. washe same time, that rule already saved by the court -- stayed by the court, so it wasn't in effect. some coal miners were saying it would decimate the industry. that will never had a chance to into effect before president trump rescinded it. there's been an increased campaign to increase safety regulations. they've been going into effect for years. it's hard to tell how much these regulations will make a difference. , theorale and investment government will not regulate as much, that will make a difference. underground, it remains to be seen. host: this chart from the bureau -- 72,600tatistics jobs in the united states, down from the first quarter of 2016 from 78,900 jobs. we will be talking about those jobs and the people in the industry. we want to hear from coal miners and their families. special line for you, 202-748-8000. maryland.xt in caller: i want to make three comments. aret of the ceos controlling coal plants, they don't live in the area, they don't drink from the same water that the waste goes into. it's interesting that nobody brings up that fact. the second comment, i've been hearing so much about coal is members ofll that -- congress just passed a bill, $3 billion for the health care of coal miners. othert know about every person listening, but the government is not taking care of my medical needs. the coal companies are not taking the lead on caring for the sick from this really dangerous job. since i mentioned this before, we need loud who can counter this information and we need some sort of fact check -- it's easy to get people uninformed about the effects to the environment and the pollution. i can's as a chemist and nobody talks about these things. -- i can speak as a chemist. host: stick around today. we will have a lot of different guests on this topic, including the ceo of a coal company who lives in the area, robert murray of my energy is coming in at 8:00. -- murray energy is coming in at 8:00. bill johnson will be joining us at 8:30 this morning. -- at, vivian stockman 9:00, vivian stockman will join us. and then if his generation miner will be with us, live from powhatan point. nick mullins is his name. minerifth-generation will be with us. guest: that is a good lineup. i want to address the ceo water concern you brought up. indeed come in by mentalists point that out a lot. environmentalists point that out a lot. when they come to capitol hill to testify, they bring water that is tainted and say this water has been tainted by the it doesn'tess that seem to make a big difference in thepolitical discussion people for more regulation will keep on with that belief. complicated -- the united mine workers of america had a pension and health-care plan. both are imperiled. lawmakers wanted to have congress step in and support these two benefit plans. they decided to start up with health care because they thought doing pensions and health care was too much of a risk. supporters of this will tell you there was a promise made to coal miners into the union for the government -- and to the union for the government to take over the pensions. there was a promise to do this -- since then, the federal government has stepped into back up those union benefits. legislation having to do with mine reclamation -- the extended a program to reclaim abandoned mines and they had a formula to get a cut of interest dollars. enough,ed up not being especially with the downturn in the market. so, congress had to step in again. should congress have done this? was there a promise to the mine rs? this has been going on for years . the miners got their health benefits predicted. -- protected. the pensions are still pending. host: we will be going out to powhatan point, ohio for several interviews today, the a keys of coal -- transfer point for one of the mines in ohio to power plants up and down the ohio river. one of the individuals who works there is jimmy holiday -- jamie holiday -- i want to show an inerview we did with him which he describes what actually happened each day at the trans loading facility there. [video clip] >> we have a trans loading facility that brings coal by train down to the harbor. we offloaded the trains and loaded onto barges. one of the things we've realized years ago is barge transportation, water transportation is the most efficient way to ship products no matter what product it would be. i can put it into perspective for you. we loaded a barge down here in 40 minutes. takes 40 minutes to load one coal.with 1700 tons of when the barges leave our harbor, there's 15 of them wired together and one vote will pick boat will- one pick those up. it hundred 50 coal trucks to come up with that much coal dust 850 coal trucks to come up with that much coal. we can do it in one boat. barges vary from day to day. we can have up to 60 or 70 barges to load in our harbor at a time. powerplant is inside of 400 miles from here. which would take the coal probably two or three days to get there by water. still, it is a whole lot quicker than trying to use the roads to get there. host: how much coal comes through powhatan point on a daily basis? to many people does it take move it onto the barges? >> very minimal. operator on our reclaim pile up there. we have a boat crew that consists of a captain and a deck hand. also thean on duty is control room operator and our maintenance people. it doesn't take a lot of people to do what we do for the amount of coal that we ship now. host: that is where we will be for the most of today's program. we want to get one or two more calls with manuel quinones of environmental energy news. venice come florida, waiting on that line for coal miners. caller: good morning. mining family for 30 years. my husband was a superintendent of the long wall. he was devoted to the people in the area of southeastern ohio. he was just like a doctor. if that long wall down for two hours day or night, he got out , rain,and went back out snow come in different. -- back out, rain, snow, indifferent. i said, jim, why do you do this? there are so many families that this industry supports. , we caneave my family any in production -- i am advocate for hundreds of families in this area. mine has shut down. when i went back up a few months ago to that area, it is poverty, it is welfare. to the coalsay mining industry -- these people are trying to put their kids through college. these people are trying to have the lights that when people flip on a switch in oregon or california -- i'm an advocate for the coal mines. it's families. not just the industry, it's families. host: what did you take from that call? guest: i want to expound on the long wall -- it is an enormous machine underground that pushes against the wall of the coal seam and shears the coal off and puts it into conveyor belts. it is very impressive. howt of people talk about coal jobs were never all that abundant in the grand scheme of things around the country. now, even in coal producing states, they are just a fraction of them. so, why do we worry so much about the coal industry? a lot of this is in people's blood, is part of their culture and their heritage. it is hard for a lot of people to just say, ok, let's move on. especially when, for so many decades, it has provided a good living. coal miners make good money for places away from these metro areas. , alwaysnuel quinones appreciate your time. we've been showing you images this morning from the powhatan center ons loading the ohio river, just across the river, you can just across the river is the mitchell powerplant owned by america electric power. is the senior vice president of commercial operations at american electric power, which owns those plants. he joins us now from powhatan point. guest: good morning. you: how money plants do operate a many customers do you provide electricity for? guest: we serve 5.4 million customers across our 11 state area. going tor of plants is be a little more difficult to nail down with the technology change, now that we are investing in wind turbines and the generatingut capacity is about 3.1 gigawatt hours. that's approximately 175 units. host: in terms of the plants, how many are coal-fired? of ourabout 47% generating capacity is cold. al. host: and the smokestacks we are seeing behind you stationed at the power plant, are those coal power plants? guest: yes, they are. the camera plant is one where you see nothing coming out of the stack. the mitchell plan, you see water vapor coming out of the stack due to the modern technology we have installed in that plant. host: why is there nothing coming out of the stack? what happened to that station? guest: what you are seeing across the river is the transition that has occurred in our coal fleet and across the country. the camera plant was a group of plants. plants down around nine in 2015. these were 50 plus-year-old plants. due to the environmental regulation that came down the pipe, we really couldn't justify investing for the scrubbers on those plants. host: what's going to happen to that facility? guest: that facility has been sold and it will be dismantled and hopefully repurposed and it will bring in an industrial customer into the area. host: jeff lafleur, senior vice president, joining us from powhatan point. you can see some of the plants we are talking about. before you go, can you explain how a coal power plant works for viewers who may not know? guest: as you can tell, we are on the ohio river. many of our plants, i will refer to the mitchell plan. t. we received coal by a conveyor line as well as rail and barge coal. we bring that: to the plant -- coal into the plant and score tha store that coal. the advantages that you have several days of inventory in the front yard. reducing the risk of that transportation. we grant that coal into a fine powder, blow it in the boiler, ,ransfer that heat high-pressure steam flows through the turbines come a driving the generators. -- the turbines, driving the generators. after it goes through, we remove the nitrous oxides and then it goes through the wet scrubber that causes the water vapor you see. in that scrubber, we inject limestone. that limestone reacts with the sulfur dioxides to form gypsum. chalky substance that most folks know from the walls of their house. we take the gypsum out of that and ship it across the street to the wallboard plant. our gypsum is made into wallboard to go across the construction industry, avoiding those landfill costs for our customers. host: before we go, as we look at the smokestacks over your shoulder, how many people work at the mitchell station over across the way operating today? guest: approximately 220 permanent workers. during the year for maintenance and other activities, we can employ as many as 300 or 400 construction workers. host: jeff lafleur is the senior vice president of commercial operations at american power. appreciate you stopping by to chat with us today. guest: thank you, john. ohio, wem power-point, take our viewers to murray energy corporation headquarters where we are joined by president and ceo robert murray. thanks for joining us this morning. guest: thank you for having me. host: we are at your powhatan point transfer center. does murrayes energy operate and how many employees do you have? guest: we have 17 mines. 2015, we had 8400 employees, but because of the actions of barack obama and the democrats, we got down to 5000 employees. we are back up to 6500 employees now under president trump, who has done a wonderful job so far for reliable low-cost electricity and for coal miners. we hope to get back to where we were eventually. host: and what kind of mines does murray energy operate? mines or underground open pit mines? guest: no, i have all underground mines. that is environmentally the most acceptable way to mine coal. we are typically underground 1000 feet and people don't know that we are down there mining coal. energy corporation is exclusively an underground mining company in the united ines.s with our 17 m we do do some surface mining and colombia, south america. we do it as the most environmentally acceptable way to do it. the public don't even know that i have thousands of employees right under them mining this coal. host: why did you start in the mining business and did you ever worked in an underground mine? guest: i worked 16 years underground every day until i contracted a problem. i was underground every week until last july. it is my life. that is why i put my headquarters here in saint clairsville, ohio, just 50 miles from where you are right now, in the coalfield among our people. these people want to work in honor and dignity. under barack obama, 63,000 coal miners's families were destroyed and lost their jobs. for every job we have in the mines, they're up to 11 jobs in the community for school teachers, county employees, state employees, doctors, lawyers, store clerks, that spinoff from every coal mining job. that is from university studies. i was very proud of the fact that in early 2015 that i had 8400 employees and accounted for 100,000 jobs in the united states of america. very proud of that. six years ago i moved my headquarters back to the coalfield to be among our people. they just want to work in honor and dignity. the other day i had a 52-year-old coal miner that i ago --red 40 years 30 years ago and i had to fire him because of the democrats. he was falling in my office. i couldn't get them out of my office. that is something obama, clinton, the democrats never saw. these are wonderful people who want to work in honor and dignity. host: a recent headline -- "coleader has president donald ear."s guest: i have a wonderful relationship with donald trump. i've met with him three times at his request in the last three months. we have been very engaged in the transition in identifying those regulations of the obama administration that need to be eliminated. in helping them get the right people, not the political hacks that mr. obama and the democrats had for eight years, but people who really understand the coal industry and electric utility industry. you know, our electric utility customers had uncertainty for eight years because of these mixed signals they have gotten from illegal regulations of the obama administration. we need to get that settled down because reliable low-cost electricity is at stake. coal-fired electricity is four cents a kilowatt hour. the electricity from a windmill and a solar panel is $.26 a kilowatt hour. it gets four cents a kilowatt hour from the taxpayer. it would not even exist without the subsidy. natural gas has historically been $.15 a kilowatt hour. coal is one for the cost of natural gas, 17 the cost of a windmill or a solar panel. we need to keep it in the mix so that people have reliable low-cost electricity. we have an energy poverty problem in this country. we worry about that woman who is trying to raise children on one income. we worry about that customer that worked all their lives to save a nest egg. they're paying up 22% of what they make of what income the have for energy. that manufacture of a product for the global marketplace is also paying out 22%. we have to worry about the cost of electricity and the reliability of it. it is the staple of life today. host: robert murray is taking your calls and questions and comments. special lines for coal miners and family members, call us at (202) 748-8000. otherwise we split up our lives by time zones. eastern is (202) 748-8001. mountain pacific regions is (202) 748-8002. jobs lostned 63,000 over the course of the obama administration. the latest jobs number from the bureau of labor statistics says there's only 72,600 jobs in the coal industry right now. do you expect those 63,000 jobs to come back, almost doubling the coal employment? trump, byn, president killing the ill-fated, so-called clean power plant, has already saved 25,000 coal mining jobs. yes, we have lost 63,000 coal mining jobs times 11. that's about 40,000 jobs in america under the democrats and obama the last eight years. killing of the power plant already done by mr. trump saved the closing of 56,000 more coal-fired units on top of the 411 coal-fired units that mr. obama closed illegally, most of the. m. that saved 25,000 coal mining jobs. a would've gone on down with 63,000 plus another 25,000. we calculated he has already 25,000. he will bring the economy back as he brings manufacturing to the united states. with thatgrow because our coal-fired electricity is 1/6 the cost of a wind or solar panel and one fourth the cost of electricity from natural gas. host: when you say illegal regulations, are you referring to the clean power plant at? ct? guest: i was referring to the clean power plant alone. the first regulation that was a legal that he killed was the so-called screen protection rule. it would have stopped mining under dry ditch on the surface. that was the first regulation that mr. obama killed. it was simply an attempt. it had no environmental than a fit at all. it was simply an attempt to eliminate underground mining. then the clean power plant, he has now called a timeout to study the resiliency and the security of electric power grid. the closing of these coal-fired plants has left a very unreliable power grid. that is the margin in the grids that are dangerously low. all the experts are saying that. coal needs to be there. it's the only solid hydrocarbon that can be stored into the plants. of the the reliability power grid in this country, we need about 30% coal father -- coal-fired electricity. that's where we are at right now. the margins are very thin. he has ordered studies of the electric power grid. the thing closing coal fired plant right now is that scrubbers were ordered, but obama passed regulations that told them to quit using scrubbers. they were called affluent limitation guidelines on the water discharges from the scrubbers. that has been killed. he is now in the process, mr. trump, of killing the coal combustion residual regulations on solid discharges. he has addressed six or seven items down the list that were totally illegal, done by executive fiat by the past president, the greatest destroyer america has ever had, barack obama and his democratic friends. i don't know of a democrat who doesn't support him. host: mr. murray, i will let you talk to some of our callers. monro, you on with the president and ceo of murray energy. caller: good morning, gentlemen. there was an article last month that talked about how britain is almost a coal free nation and they are down to nine plants . it fronted me to do more research and i saw an article from "the washington post." they were showing how natural gas usage is up above coal and even solar, wind, and those coming up. the thing is that industries change. when the car can, the horse and buggy industry also complained. we have to change as a nation coul. climate change is real. when you were talking about the cost per kilowatt hour, you did not mention how much is the cost per kilowatt hour for nuclear. host: mr. murray, i will let you take on any of those topics. guest: he is misinformed in much of what he just stated. number 1 -- we need nuclear power as well as coal-fired energy to have liability of the electric -- reliability of the electric power grid. we need those two. wind is only available if the wind blows. solar is only available if the sun shines. these gas wells only last 10 years. what are we going to do after 10 years? they are virtually depleted after 10 years. he is wrong in saying that gas has replaced coal. they are about even right now at a both 32% of our energy generation. coal was 52% before the election of barack obama. global warming does not exist. the earth has cooled the last 20 years. the and arctic ice shield -- and tarctic i shield is larger than has been. down everyose coal-fired plant in the united states and it would have an immeasurable effect on global climate temperatures. 0.02 degrees fahrenheit. your listeners comments are virtually all misguided, not correct. host: tom conway from south carolina, go ahead. caller: i'm glad to see you on the show telling american people the truth once and for all. , hisrevious caller comments are misguided because they listen to democratic propaganda. they not only destroyed your industry, but they destroy everything they get their hands into. when you had james clapper and sally gates and comments from my same waters, those are more political hacks that destroy other areas of this country. we need to start straightening it out. straightening out your industry and telling amazing people the truth is where we have got to start. host: let's go to joanna. good morning. caller: good morning coul i hav. i have a question for you, sir. it seems awful odd to me that you take your power plant upgrading and throw it back into sur pockets, the one that pay for electricity. during the middle of the worst winters we had, 16% is an awful lot to raise a person's electricity in the middle of the winter. up aboutay you are so the coal industry being so bad for you, how come the epa had to get on to you after you have known since the 1930's that this has been a bad business, a dirty business? why did it take them getting onto you to do something? host: your response? guest: i think her comments are so misguided and so wrong. i don't know how to respond to it. is veryl industry environmentally conscious. i have children and grandchildren just like she does. i'm concerned about the environment she does. that's why i underground mine coal. coal can be burned as cleanly as natural gas today. toneed to make a commitment ultra supercritical combustion, to high energy low emission technology. it's all there. the emissions from coal-fired generation using those technologies are actually lower from natural gas. we cannot rely on a windmill and a solar panel. i do not many coal-fired power plants. you will have to ask somebody else the question about your electric bill. i can tell you that are coal is holding your electric bill down. apparently you did not hear me say that it is 1/6 the cost of windmills and solar panels and one fourth the cost of natural gas. there are no other ways to produce electricity today other than with nuclear power plants and with coal-fired plants, which we absolutely need in our energy mix. host: nancy is up next in connecticut. good morning. caller: thanks for having me. i really feel like i have a lot to say. there have been other industries over history that have had to go away because they were not sustainable environmentally . whaling, for instance, people i'm sure were just as attached to those jobs. foresting. as we learn about what the effects are of these things, we move on to other more sustainable things. i've watched a lot of documentaries, a lot of things, read a lot. hearing is that there really is no such thing as clean coal. now you may be able to burn it more effectively with less pollution at this point, but just the very act of getting it out of the ground and shipping it. now that trump has rolled back the law or rule that they can't tailings in streams and rivers, i find that very upset. i don't think these people are political hacks. i've also been listening to documentaries and reading things about how the press of wind and solar is coming down drastically and is actually in many cases less expensive than coal. host: mr. murray, i will let you jump in. guest: well, again, she has been reading the wrong materials. a windmill and a solar panel display six cents a kilowatt hour. it gets -- is tori six cents a kilowatt hour -- $.26 a kilowatt hour. coal is four cents a kilowatt hour. isctricity from natural gas four times as more expensive than from coal. a gas well only lasts 10 years. we need solid hydrocarbons to keep the reliability of the electric power grid. this technology we have today must sustain coal. we must have it to maintain the reliability and a low-cost in our electric power grid. low-cost electricity is a staple like today. host: the caller talked about clean coal and you talked about clean coal as well. for the advancement of clean coal in this country, what could washington do to help with that? guest: well, first of all, carbon capturing and sequestration as a technology does not work. it is neither practical nor economic. carbon dioxide is not even a pollution. it is a gas that makes matters grow and it was never covered under the clean air act. so we need to have other technologies beside carbon capture and sequestration. those are called high emission or high energy, low emission technologies, ultra supercritical combustion, and combined cycle coal-fired generation. with those technologies, coal can be burned cleaner than natural gas. we need a commitment to it in this country because we need all the above in our energy mix. we need coal. we need nuclear. we need natural gas. we need windmills and solar panels. it's a staple of life. we all want to protect the environment. there are no discharges from any of our power plants that i supply or from our coal mines right now, as she has asserted, that are violating any laws or create any pollution for the country. information that is put out there. the margins in the coal industry have been very tight. we don't have a very large public relations program. the obama administration spent $1.2 billion against me personally to silence me over the last eight years. that is taxpayer money. they spent $158 million in public relations. that was taxpayer money. the information that people get in connecticut from their reading is often very skewed because we don't get the information out there could we just u. we just amply can afford it. we are fortunate to keep people working and to keep call at 30 -- coal at 32% of our energy mix where it is now from the 52% where it was before mr. obama. from want to get calls coal miners and family members of coal miners. june is on that line from florida. good morning. caller: good morning. sir, i would like to say thank you for what you have done for my family. i'm 74 years old. my grandfather and great-grandfather come over and have their own little coal mines c. we have been coal miners all of our lives. without it, we would not have survived. i was remembering first and plainly in first and second grade that my family lived in the home that the coal mines owned. over my brothers and sisters head, we would've had nothing. we would go next door to the church and they would give us soup and sandwiches when things were bad. .he coal mine has been our life some of these people that have never lived what we have lived doesn't know what coal does for a live -- our lives. it kept things going in west virginia. look at the steel mills and everything. there's nothing there now. we used to be the most beautiful state down around where i was born. we lived in moundsville and down and powhatan. i don't know what to say to these people. you have to live this life to know what it does to you. my brothers are coal miners. i have one that just retired after putting -- he was 17 when he went into the coal mine. now he is 56 years old. that should tell people we need the jobs for the people around there. so please just keep up what you are doing. but the people know -- let the people know how important this is an it's not as bad as what the democrats are saying. even some republicans are saying this. without this call mine, there would be no west virginia. there would be no ohio. host: mr. murray, want to give you a chance to respond to june. guest: june is absolutely correct. these people in these areas, these miners have fought the wars for this country. they are very dedicated, hard-working people that just want to work in honor and dignity. i respect him so much. -- them so much. that is why the my headquarters right where you are in the coal fields among these people. more importantly we are the industry holding down electric rates for all americans. we cost 16 the cost of a windmill and a solar panel. we cost one fourth of electricity from natural gas. we need to keep these uncertainties away from mr. obama's regulations and under mr. trump so that they can go ahead and stop the destruction of the coal-fired electricity, because we have a very unreliable electric power grid right now. people are going to freeze in the dark. people are going to die on the operating table if we get another polar vortex like we had in this area two years ago. there is not enough margin in electric power grid to keep the lights on if we get a very bad cold snap or very hot weather in the summer. that's what people need to be worrying about. we have an energy poverty problem in this country. we have an energy poverty problem in the world. half of the homes in india don't have a lightbulb for heat as well as light. great britain came up in your discussion a few minutes ago. i have an office in london. their electric bills have doubled. they are hurting for electricity. they have shut down all of their coal-fired electricity. so has europe in the same position. let's not put the united states of america in that position for no environmental benefit at all. again, you can close down every coal-fired plant in the united states. by the obama administration itself, the effects are immeasurable. 0.06 degrees fahrenheit. host: mr. murray, we will have to end it there. appreciate your time this morning on "washington journal." guest: thank you for having me. i appreciate it very much. we continue our focus on the coal industry, we will be joined by republican congressman bill johnson. he represents the sixth district of ohio, where several murray plants are located. we will talk about the mining industry and the regulations that impacted. to vivianwill talk stockman about her work and the environmental impacts of the coal industry. visiton a recent to murray, we talked to some who move the coal to that facility. one of them was railroad engineer dan straight. [video clip] >> they can be hectic depending on the weather the amount of coal we've got. it is fast-paced at times. other times it's kind of relaxing and easy-going. >> how much coal comes through on one train car here? >> there are 72 cars and is about 8000 tons per train. and ithat down to one car didn't do the math. >> how many trains the move on average? >> usually through trains. >> how long does that take? >> it ranges between four hours and eight hours probably, depending on what were doing, whether we are putting it on the stockpile or loading barges with it. loading in the stockpile usually takes longer. between four and eight hours. >> what's a tough part of being a train engineer? keeping anher and eye out for everybody around. you have several different entities down here, several different contractors down here. these things are big and they are heavy. you get enough people around them, you have to make sure everyone stays on their toes , make sure everyone goes home safe. >> the call that you bring in on the trains and that goes out of here, where does ago? where does it come from and where does it go? >> a comes from murray century coal mine -- a come from murray century coal mine and agosta several places. -- a comes from murray century coal mine and goes to several places. >> up and down the ohio river? >> up and down the ohio river to sometimes it will go as far as overseas. murray has several different contracts. >> is railroading in your family? >> no, i'm the first one and only one. >> how much training do you have to go through to be a railroad engineer? >> three to six months. it's pretty stringent. there's a lot of regulations, a lot of rules, and a lot of safety measures. there's a lot to learn in one of these things. they are about a mile long. like i said, it's just the big safety thing. you have to keep in mind in the game the whole time you're up there. host: about 300 miles northwest of washington, d.c. is powhatan point, ohio. it is on the ohio river. this morning, "washington journal" is live from murray energy translating center at powhatan point. about talking with guests the coal industry, its impacts, and its regulation. joining us now from powhatan whose sixill johnson, district runs along ohio. i want to ask you about coal miners health benefits. we are coming off a week in which the on the this spending bill-- omnibus spending included provisions on health benefits. wisely government involved in health benefits for coal miners -- why is the government involved in health benefits for coal miners? guest: we have to be. these were benefits promised to call miners. the coal industry, as you heard mr. murray talk about, has kept the lights on and heating in the winter and air-conditioning in the summer. it's the least we can do to make sure they can get the benefits they have earned from the career that they put into in the coal mining industry. the coal miners protection a ct, very important legislation, and i was glad to see we got that done. we kept about 22,000 coal miners from losing their health benefits coul and that was very important. i think we did the right thing. host: another piece of legislation you supported was the effort to repeal the stream protection rule. can you explain what that was in your involvement in that effort? guest: absolutely i can. when i first came to congress in 2011, i became aware of what the interior department, the office of surface mining and reclamation, was trying to do with the rule known as the stream protection rule. at that time, it was called the stream buffer zone rule. they changed the name of it so it become a political hot button. i will explain that in just a minute, but it was one of the twin pillars of president obama's war on coal because it attacked the coal industry from the production side. it had nothing to do with protecting streams. it was a gross overreach of federal authority. we had pointed that out to them. we had hearing after hearing after hearing on the natural resources committee in congress, but they just simply would not listen. ton we had the opportunity roll that rule back under the congressional review act, i was very, very happy to leave that charge. i had a lot of help from other members of the house and the senate that made sure we got that done. because like i said, and had nothing to do with keeping streams claim. clean. we have lots of federal laws and state laws already on the books. keep in mind that the states or 97% of the 97% regulatory work that happens in the coal industry is done by the states today. you don't need the federal government stepping into something that is a gross overreach that would virtually shut down underground coal mining in america. and that's what that rule would have done if had been left to stand. host: our guest is taking your calls and your questions. we have a special line for coal miners and family members at (202) 748-8000. congressman johnson, we will start with michael calling in from boswell, pennsylvania. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. i grew up in boswell, a small coal mining town. i was a coal miner myself. it seems like every five to 10 years they put a mandate on power plants to claim -- better clean their coal. it is so efficient that they say whenever they go into those big smokestacks they get very little ash. it's very clean burning. waslieve that this country made and we protected even the world through the use of coal. it's a vital part of our history and our heritage. if you do research on solar materials,get the you have to mine the coal and is crushed tot make solar panels. it has to be heated up to 2500 degrees to make crystalline to make the solar panels. they are so toxic that they don't make them and the united states. they make them in foreign countries, so we ship our coal overseas. they make them over there. when they cut them into the square panels, the dust is toxic and harmful to human beings. host: michael, got your point. congressman johnson, i've let you jump in. guest: he's right. we've got basically three forms of energy that provides the base load of our natural utility -- national energy grid. it is coal, natural gas, and nuclear. you can't provide the base load of our energy grid with solar or wind or alternative fuels. i believe, as do most of my colleagues that i serve within the house, believe and in all the above energy policy. president obama said that when he was in office, but that is not what his policy reflected. i heard mr. murray talk about this a little earlier. i've traveled to europe also. i've talked to some of the energy leaders in europe about why they are returning to a higher profile or higher mix of coal-fired energy in their energy profiles. it is because they are unwilling to pay the exorbitantly high that theirenergy residential and commercial customers have been forced to pay. europe has learned the tough lesson of what it does to a nation when you shut down your coal-fired energy, because: is still the most affordable, reliable former angie on the planet and we need it along with natural gas and nuclear energy to provider baseload. but he is right. a lot of the components for solar energy are made overseas . we need those jobs created here at home. how do we do that? keep our coal industry going. over the years, we have done a lot of work. even the epa has said so particular lowering matter in the atmosphere here the united states. we are doing our part. we have learned how to use coal responsibly and environmentally soundly. and we should continue to do so. host: for our radio listeners, we have been showing viewers this chart showing the annual share of total u.s. electricity generation by source. 2017 iscast for natural gas at 32% and nuclear and 19% and hydroelectric power at 6% and on hydro renewables at 8%. eia.is a chart from the eia.gov is the website to check it out. bob henderson, kentucky, good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i was born and raised in eastern kentucky. it was nothing but coal mining over there. it's in the mountains. i now live in western kentucky. call mining has stopped here in western kentucky because all they have is high sulfur coal. it doesn't have a third of the btus that low sulfur coal does that they have already mined out in eastern kentucky. my dad retired from coal mining. i had two brothers retire from the coal mine. brothers thathree worked in a coal mine, but they got out of coal mining and left and went to michigan to get work. you know, i love the coal miners, but coal is not good for the atmosphere. everybody knows it. look at china. you can't see in the daytime over there because of the pollution from the coal. and on the miners benefits, i'm glad they do it. i'm glad that the government is providing that, but you know, i had 20 years in a factory in michigan. shippedt it down and the business to foreign countries to manufacture their stuff cheaper. to helptepped forward me with my benefits. host: thanks for the call. congressman johnson? guest: he made a comment about coal not being good for the atmosphere. we have come a long, long way, a long way, some of th. some of the cleanest coal-fired power plants in the world are right here along the ohio river. the cardinal plant was considered the cleanest burning coal fired power plant in the world. that coal-fired energy is bad for the atmosphere. i'm certain that you can use it irresponsibly as the chinese do. they don't go to the extremes that we do in america to make sure that our atmosphere's clean. by the way, nobody cares more about the air that we breathe and the water that we drink than those here along the ohio river in coal country that have to breathe it and drink it. so we are concerned about the atmosphere, too, and we want coal companies and power plants to do it environmentally responsibly, and i believe they are doing that today and i believe they will continue to get better at it in the future. host: we have shown our viewers this chart. it is coal jobs over the last five quarters in this country. shows that coal mining jobs dropped about 8% in the first quarter of 2017 compared to the first quarter of 2016. are you expecting some sort of great conduct -- come back and coal jobs, and if so, when? guest: is going to be a phase up. it's not going to happen overnight. now that president trump has brought down again the two twin of president obama's war on coal, the stream protection rule that he set aside and then the halting of the clean power plan, i think you are going to begin to see the coal industry revived. how long is it going to take us back to where we were before president obama? i don't know how long it's going to be. i don't have a crystal ball. but i can tell you that if we had not stopped the stream protection rule, you're talking about upwards of 70,000 jobs lost in the united states. many of them along the ohio river in places like the six district where i live, pennsylvania, west virginia, and kentucky. and had the clean power plan not been stopped, you're talking andt thousands of more jobs higher skyrocketing utility rates. i think you are going to see coal jobs stabilize and then begin to trickle back up. i just don't know how long it's going to take. host: former new york city mayor michael bloomberg had a column recently in "the washington post." putting, "the fact that coal miners is no more possible from a business standpoint than putting telegraph operators back orwork and taking morts code putting eastman kodak employees back to work manufacturing film roles. politicians to ignore these marketing realities and making promise to call committees that they can't keep are engaged in something worse than a con. there telling -- there telling those communities in effect the best hope they have and that their children have is to be trapped in a dying industry that will poison them." guest: that is an ideological point of view. you read from that chart that a third of america's power is provided by the coal industry in many states like here in ohio. it's much higher than that . coal energy provides the ability to keep our lights on and air-conditioners on in the summertime. bloomberg's statement is an ideological statement intended to frighten and scare people away from the coal industry. it's not going to work. europe is already showing that . like i said, europe is going back to a higher mix of coal in their energy profile because they learned if you are going to have a sustainable economy and robust manufacturing, you have got to have energy to be able to provide power to those manufacturing facilities. where does that power come from? they comes from the baseload of your energy grid could in america -- it comes from the baseload of your energy grid. in america, that's coal, natural gas, and nuclear. energyergy provides wind when the wind blows. we need coal. we need nuclear, but coal will be here for a long time. host: don is in new york. caller: good morning, senator johnson. i have a comment that i don't think anybody brings up. what caused global warming during the ice age? it was not people using fossil fuel. i would like someone to talk about it. thank you so much. bye. host: what would you like them to talk about? guest: i can tell you. i was not around during the ice age, but i can guarantee you we were not turning cold during the ice age. i think she makes a good point. host: the line for coal miners and their family members, bill is in cumberland city, tennessee. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead, sir. caller: i was born in virginia in the southwestern part. my dad was a coal miner for 45 years. i remember as a kid that you couldn't even -- when it snowed, you couldn't hardly go out and pick up some snow because of soot. the river up there, all the fish died in. it. the just got now back to where the fish will live in it. about all the mines, they shut down the shaft mines because they put in natural gas. it has been over 10 years now. coal.et the gas off back andot going to go put no temples up. the oil company owns all that stuff and natural gas is a lot cheaper. i listened to murray. is a big -- he is a big blow george. coal-firedt at a power plant. on a day when it is clear and the sky is blue, you will see these clouds coming from that stack floating away from it. host: thanks for sharing your story. congressman johnson, i want you to take up on the natural gas andents that he referred to the sustainability of the natural gas industry. mr. murray was saying that the wells will only last 10 years and that coal will be there longer. do you agree with that comment by mr. murray? guest: i'm not a geologist. i can tell you that along the that we have got, according to the experts, we have got more resources under our feet that we know what to do with. some people say we've got more gas and oil under our feet along the ohio river than saudi arabia does. the point.not the point is that it's going to take more than one energy source to provide the baseload for our energy grid. since --been doing it coal has been doing it since right after world war i, maybe longer than that. during america's industrialization period, it was coal-fired energy that allowed america to build and innovate many of industries that came about because they were powering their manufacturing operations with coal-fired energy. aboutwe can talk all day how inexpensive natural gas is. that is a market factor. that's true. the truth of the matter is we need both natural gas and coal to provide america's energy needs. it is not one or the other. it's both. host: back to the phones. we would go to dr. devon coming in from west virginia. caller: yes, sir. thank you very much for taking my call. i have an inquiry. the united nations's atomic energy commission has spent a research, of particularly in europe, poland, china, germany, japan. gas to convert the flue that is produced by the coal industry to fertilizers and to feed material. , we have muchtes superior technology. the atomic energy commission's program uses the electron beam to convert the flue gas into fertilizer. withve it much cheaper technology to use this in a much superior way. discuss in a creative the findings from this group or the other group and concentrate on research and development and make a better program, not only for the united states, but for the world everywhere? host: thanks for bringing it up. is that something you have been following? guest: i'm not sure i can make out exactly everything the caller said. but i did hear a lot of it. technology, there is no question. it has played a role in the coal industry and the natural gas industry and the nuclear industry here in america and across the globe. we learned how to burn coal more efficiently and cleaner. and we will continue to do that . we have learned how to harvest natural gas more efficiently and transported not only to markets but to gas-fired power plants. nuclear energy is becoming more modular, smaller. america is the country of innovation. we are the world's problem solvers. much of the innovation, much of the conveniences that people around the world enjoy today came from right here in america. , ands technology improves it seems like every week we are seeing another advancement in technology, i am certain that as we move forward, we are going to continue to find ways to provide the energy to our national energy grid and a more efficient way, more environmentally clean and sound way, and i think you will see coal and natural gas be here for a long time. host: just a few minutes left with congressman bill johnson, republican from the sixth district of ohio. you represent the district where our c-span cameras are this morning at the powhatan point translating facility on the ohio river. it is just about 20 miles south of wheeling, west virginia. showing you some pictures now of the power stations run by the american electricity company on the other side of the ohio river from powhatan point. roses on the line for coal miners and family members of coal miners from humble, tennessee. caller: good morning. i want to know what they are going to do when they get on the television and talk about all this stuff and what they say is not true. it's about money. it's not about people and the coal miners. what about them? are they going to walk away from them like they did before and leave them as some of the poorest people in the world? host: congressman? guest: i think we demonstrated in the house and the senate with the omnibus bill signed here recently that we are concerned about making sure that those miners are not left out. we sold the health benefits problem with $1.3 billion over 10 years to make sure that 22,000 mineworkers were not stripped of their health benefits, and we are going to continue to work that issue to try to resolve the pension problem. it's a bigger issue, but it's a problem that needs to be addressed. the intent is not to leave anybody out. that's not the way america does business. host: but had to rockaway, jersey -- let's head to rockaway, new jersey. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i noticed that a lot of people are very quick to regulate the coal industry and they say emissions is the reason. that i asked them, what if americans had to turn off their lights for five hours per day to save emissions? they often say no. i find that a lot of people are quick to regulate something that's foreign to them. when it comes down to themselves , they are not so willing to commit to turn their lights off or sacrificing their own comfort and cheap electricity. host: got your point. congressman johnson come our last-minute. guest: isn't it amazing how that works whether it's balancing a budget or cutting spending, which we so desperately need to do in washington, d c? onryone seems to be all board for making big changes until that change affects them. one of the conversations i like to have that i often enjoy having is when those who say we should not be using coal-fired energy, we need to be using electric cars, and those kinds of things, they go home and they plug that car into an electric outlet in their home, never even considering the fact that the energy provides to their home is provided by coal-fired energy. somehow that goes unnoticed. host: congressman bill johnson, appreciate the time for joining us today. stop by our studio when you're back in th d.c. guest: i would love to. host: we will hear from vivian stockton. she is the director of the environment >> it is all coal miners around here. you got coal mines, coal mines, out that way is coal mines, a of people. a bunch. ost: what do people do when they are out of jobs? steel mill. have a the coal mine from .he coal mine host: you think it is hard for to find a different job, they want to leave the mining business? so.o, i don't think ike me, i was 800 feet in the ground. i'm 100 below ground. above ground. difference, i made it, anybody can make it. host: for somebody that has been 800 feet below ground, what is it like? >> beautiful. you are under ground once you are accustomed to it. it is dark. up to your your hand nose and not feel it, you can the heat.eel you can't feel nothing. the flicker of light, cufeel a light, i would say a mile away. terrain.on the it is not all flat, people think it is flat as this table. curving, contour of he land. host: do you miss it at all? >> yeah. the coal y job in mine. i started with labor and kept my union card. i was a boss, also, a boss the days a year, without losing seniority, then drop down days, i just give that up day as a fire boss. do that.owed to host: what did you like most about it? >> daily challenge. job, ay was a different different thing to do. you are on a rooftop, you had to watch it wouldn't fall in onbuggy, watchy it is a e corners, challenge, everyday challenge. else, you are re your worst enemy. dazidazical, you are going to get hurt. host: "washington journal" the focus on the coal industry this morning from ohio.an point, it's murray energy's there.oading facility joining us on site is vivian stockman, she serves as vice ohio valley he environmental coalition. tell our viewers about your and its work. guest: well, ohio valley coalition or ovec is known as hat huntington, west virginia, on the other side of the river river near kentucky. we've been, celebrating our 30th now. right living rooms just a group, a bunch of citizens got together with the corporation was going to bring all of its waste from north america to a low-income community near got ngton and people together and became a multi-year eventually bas corporation decided it wasn't in g to burn or dump waste our neighborhood. that is what we started with, years we have gone into a sorted campaign when people brought different pollution nd grievances to our -- to light for us. i think we focus on environmental justice and we justice, at racial social justice, all of that in lens of human rights. -- and of course, human rights. on ral campaigns are going now, one revolving around the that will bring gas through the area, unless we stop that and we're very worried them. the implications could be. i think you have a photo there of what that is with the top and the mountain removal site behind it. host: yeah, we can show the viewers. where mountain top why you akes place and are so concerned about mountain top removal. mountain top removal is going on in four different tates, it is very prevalent in southern west virginia and we got involved in the issue when to us after they had been to the full companies, politicians, had been to the state politicians, been to the federal politicians relief from what mountain top removal was doing the area.munities in mountain top removal is a type mining where they blast off something like 800 feet off to get of our mountains to thin seams of coal. an operative word there. at this very moment there, is a charleston ng on in here our allies colbert mountain watch are trying to get hearing about a permit for an expansion of mountain top emoval mine on coal river mountain. that type of mining detonates explosives. i mean, there was a big uproar that we dropped in afghanistan, the mother of all bombs, as there should be an over that. but that type of bombing is going on by coal companies on mountains in west virginia. annihilate does it our incredibly biodiverse is debris buries streams, something like 2000 miles of streams have been buried. these are biologically crucial streams, about a million acres of forest destroyed in mountain top mining and communities are driven spo extinction. out of their hed homes. people that do manage to live incredible suffering health problems. if you live near a mountain top emoval mine, you are more likely to have cancer, more likely to have cardiovascular nd respiratory problems, more likely to have birth defects in people livingthan in area where is there is no mountain top removal coal mining. it is a huge problem, environmentally and it is annihilating communities. learned about st the problem, we held one of the first ever forums on mountain we've been and stopting and attempting to this practice ever since. host: i should tell the viewers, the ey want to check out website it is ohbec.org, we are vivian stockman of ohio valley environmental coalition. segment of te "washington journal" today focuses on the coal industry and of that industry. vivian stockman also taking your line and comments, special for coal miners and family members, 202-748-8000. otherwise, regional, if you are eastern or central time zone, 202-748-8001 is your number. mountain or pacific region, 202-748-8002. ivian stockman, we'll start with larry on that line for coal miners and family members from clifton springs, new york. good morning. caller: good morning. having the noise pollution on c-span this morning, as well as poison coal dpragrandfather died from black escaped the father coal mines. of course, i'm very concerned lying he congressman about energy policy in america and i'm very glad that your the nt guest is telling truth about coal and its destruction of the environment. all this coal, very few industries are dependent on coal. convert to ily electricity and we could be electricity, portugal is making 13% of electricity from off-shore tumblers, just rolling with the wind 24/7. the waves can be put on long winteros rivers, we can get all the energy we need from the sun and from the rivers and from the oceans and i just absolutely disgusted that they never tell how radiation omes from the new plants and how the poison and the acids and carcinogens coming from coal. host: larry brings up a lot of subjects. ivian stockman talked about congressman johnson, who played ole in repeal of the stream protection role. want your perspective on the impact of repealing that rule? guest: well, it's very telling that one of the first acts of administration was to roll back a rule that would have coal ted us from the industries in terms of poisoning know, we , you definitely as we transition out f the coal era, we're going to need clean water and we also do minerso remember the coal and help with the transition for the miners, people who sacrificed so much. it is important to underscore that, you know, against mountain top removal are not against the coal miner. very think that is important. we're excited in huntington, we best ly won america's community contest and part of goingthe whole transition to be taking place in huntington, one thing going on we're a part of is some unemployed r now miners or veterans or underemployed youth to teach you know, new careers, say in hazmat and also installation, so i .hink that is important caller said is true, utilities themselves, the -- appalachian power said it is for renewables, they renewables. toward when you hear, i'm sure the congressman probably said .ob-killing regulation dig you hear that, please eeper, in most cases, regulations are actually going to at least have a net effect in terms of jobs, a net benefit for jobs and they're all about the miner and the mining communities from the abuses of the coal industry. host: vivian stockman, you talk the transitioning out of mines. last month on "washington journal," we had zach regulations are actually going to atcoleman on an environmental writer here, he had a cover story in the christian science monitor last on this topic, finding life after coal, is the cover april 10, 2017. appalachian towns vivian stockman was referring to. miners the line for coal and family members, alfonso in good ville, texas, morning. caller: yeah, steel worker for i know what it is to lose a joto lose a job. it was greed that pushed me out. is, uy that you got there it is a different situation for in -- the it is environment and i like to know these thinks about all regulations regulations, are they saying truth about the environment and industry, they are blaming the coal industry, so i watch out. what these congressmen and doing, because i know what it is to get out of a 22 years and for that is all i have to say. alfonso, the ht, congressman left us. we are with vivian stockman. the t your thoughts on topics. guest: well, it is interesting people lly so many didn't even bother voting in the last election because everybody politics, as ith sual, on both sides of the aisle. we work on campaign issues. money in is so much corporations funding politicians worker, atense of the the expense of the community ember and, you know, our policies are for corporations, not for the people and people politics ed up with right now. caller: i have a two-part question. -- secondly the politicians talk technology, do l you think that the companies that own coal power plants will spending the millions of to install coal technology from plants and take the profitability? thank you for taking my call. stockman, take them in whatever order you want. guest: let's go with the lie of versus, you know, you hear this phrase repeated over over. just because you say something over and over again does not advertising it is slogan propaganda. coal is paid for in deep miner's ives and health or in the case of mountain top removal, paid for by the mountains themselves, and the reams communities driven to extinction or people that do manage to nearby. and taking what used to be sweet turning it into a toxic soup coming out of the people's sinks that people have with, that is the coal prep plant, they use call kinds deadly chemicals to wash the coal, the prep plant workers have been part of the class-action lawsuit because they are getting sick and dying like flies. have full-prep plant waste. host: on the picture of the two people with the water there, who people?e this picture that is on your website, as well. uest: yeah, those are folks from mingo county, west the community of rawl. rawl -- and sprig, the joinedties, 700 families a class-action lawsuit about contamination of the water there. you had young kids coming up with gal bladder disease, all of, every house, if you knocked on the door, somebody in the house had a rare illness obviously if your water is tell you when they clean coal, think of that. that is not even talking about transport the coal, when you burn the coal, the coal ash, the administration is roll back coal ash regulation, coal ash is a whole problem, the leftovers after you burn it. you know, there is a giant disaster, several of them, lagunes.n caller referred to in the first what is is questions, coming out of mercury, sulfur acid rain, i ng talking t is not even about the climate from air emissions, something like 30,000 premature deaths per year on the mining side, premature deaths cancer, you know, clean co coal. please. you mention the smoke stacks over your shoulder belong the mitchill power plant and -- run by american electric power company. one of the senior members of that company about the plants across the river just to let our viewers the what they are seeing in shot your shoulder. back to the calls, 10 minutes left with vivian stockman. clarence is wait nothing fredericktown, ohio. yes, thank you, c-span. i would like to apologize for from ohio.ssman on these people lie so much. i am so devastated by it, when i removal stuff.p i've been reading at it, looking at it, telling people about it alone are er effects enough to stop all this on nature. why is all the corporations ownure our nature? they are move nothing now to our ature preserves, the things that the government -- nature the e people, now all to s are going to be open this kind of stuff. this lady, vivian stockman, thank you so much for what you do. wish i could do more, but i can't. run a clean , we farm, only 50 acres, no gmo, no nothing. animals are all on grass, throw conserve and carbon alley air, that is the best we can do. for sharing your story. vivian stockman. you know, the caller is talking about cleaner solutionsre, there are to this. the last nd solar in year far outpaced, wind and coal and in tpaced terms of the new generation in the united states, wind and solar is just taking a little fact, i'm worried we're letting china get ahead of us on that. should really be encourages policies that bring these kind jobs. west virginia deserves these kind of jobs. culture, part of our but our -- we have to look to the future. coal k if you ask any miner, they don't want their kids to be coal miners. of what they have done and they should be and should not be forgotten. fortunately, they have just gotten their health benefits, but they're trying to, they had to fight for these from bankrupt corporations that intentionally go bankrupt to get out of obligations and trying coal miner h the pension. host: what about the renewable the caller that brings up and that you bring up. steven moore, consultant with freedom work his a recent column in the washington times. e writes, renewable energy at best one or two decades away from being major energy source in this world. happens, coal and natural gas will compete as and riced, super abundant domestically produced energy sources for 21st century america. to get your response. guest: well, you know, just a was 50% of o, coal our electricity supply and now down around 30%. a lot as come up from natural gas, competitor, natural gas bringing downturn in the coal economy. the same time, renewables are off australia just recently talking about completely skipping the so-called transition of oil and and we're all skiping that because of what oil and gas is county, dodridge county, where we are based, you know, we are and ng by leaps and bounds need a moon shot, we need all of policies ces, our directed toward just moon shot for renewable energy. we can -- it is growing so quickly, it is changing day to day. you see incredible news about just all types of innovation, trees, vertical wind mills, perhaps plans afoot to make a mountain top removal site solar farm, e a makes a lot of sense if you can find a stable area on the site turn those into solar farms because there is not a tree growing there. desert.man-made you could install vertical windmills. to just speedup the change to renewables as quickly due to the climate impact, the water impact of our fossil fuel. host: we have a few minutes left with vivian stockman. a few callers on the line for miners and family members. let's hear from two of them. beaver dam t in kentucky. good morning. you.r: good morning to i will tell you my background. co-op from college to a program with coal company in kentucky. and that was going to be my career. 'm fourth generation coal miner. in kentucky, we have a lot of opportunities. ended withtarted and mylecon, in 2013, i finished in west virginia. a union coal miner. i'm better off than a lot of have that to 't fall back on. 've worked in four different states and eight different coal mines. to illinois, indiana, west virginia, kentucky. what is go og right now, is a thing.al i was at the september rally in miners on with coal bout the deal, coal mines are be i being -- lose their health truman ce based on 1947 decision promised to coal miners they would not lose their healthcare. outlet ran that rally, that ran that dc rally. we found a difference between elite in washington, you spread lies about the effects of and coal mining on families and community. i've been around coal power plants all my life. there has never been a story the harmful t ffects on coal mines or these coal fire plants. host: thanks for sharing. your story on the line for coal members.d family douglas in lema, ohio. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. if coal y question is, is so bad for industry, then sulfur plants the that went bankrupt under the obama administration? nuclear power plants when they melt down and ll the nuclear waste that is more harmful than the coal? hy are they not talking about those kind of environments that kill people, that hurt people? host: vivian stockman to douglas and mike's comments? guest: yeah. i think we have to look exactly uranium is mined, people unhealthy, we're fortunate in west virginia that we do not thatany nuclear plants and is why we're not working on that issue. allies definitely have who are really worried about nuclear wastes and, you know, that is considered another fuel and we need to move off of there are allies who are really studies about th plants mpact of power and i think the people living near power plants do suffer a bit and we premature 30,000 are something like per year from power plant emissions. host: bill in waynesboro, pennsylvania. vivian stockman. caller: hello. i was listening to your guest mountain top removal. it reminded me of one time when through west virginia quite a few years ago. that had their tops removed and it was just shocking, shocking. my jaw dropped. environmental destruction on such a large scale. mountains thousands of millions of years old, just it is so permanent. they say they reclaim them, but never look the same. no in my opinion, there is economic gain that ever makes it our while to do this to environment, to communities in west virginia. thank you. host: vivian stockman? guest: yeah, i mean, we're flabbergasted that we're endears into the compain to mountain top removal and still having to point out this is insane practice. bombing ign entity was the mountains the way that coal ompanies do, that would have stopped long ago. it's unfathomable really that this is nutsto say and stop it, you know. it's so obviously harming human health, there is a draft environmental impact statement environmental impact statement that says takes 500 years for the forest to recover. is famously called lipstick on a court and water going on, you is ongoing from valley fields, even mud river watershed has been thoroughly studied 40% streams are buried there and watershed are the staggering. ou know, ultimately the impact on human health and communities we call this a sane practice. host: one more call, sam bethesda, ohio, on the line for coal miners and family members. good morning. caller: good morning. i've grownup in the coal county and belmont i'm now an environmental years.er vbeen for 30 and i wasn't a big proponent of climate change. the effects of co2, metals are of interest to me, primarily because there chromium , silennium, that comes in on the mine lime t, whether it is stone or coal, those are very ell mitigated and usually contained at the coal plant itself. there are more heavy metals municipal ed in sludge, land-applied municipal sludge from concentration point is from a n there oal -- what is coming out of the waste water. go power plants themselves to great extent to hold that waste water and recycle and that waste water and metals. heavy and i'm currently working on -based systems, you see the commercials, i've been using d since 2004 on algae to sequester heavy metal from coal-burning power plants a bit of success. host: thanks for bringing up the topic. chance to kman, a respond. guest: yes, sure. well, if it is not going out of stack, it is going into the aste water and that is going into coal ash impoundments that leak into groundwater, urface water and sometimes catastrophically spill and you different everal communities are suing over contaminated groundwater. doing a hink they are good job at sequestering it. metals are he heavy sequesters when coal is left in the ground. vivian stockman, vice director at ohio valley coalition.al ahvec.com, if you want to check it out. up next, we'll hear from nick mullins, fifth generation coal miner who is writer activist and the r on the blog thoughtful coal miner. first, this is a picture from edition of the kevin hughes,st," long time murray energy employee icked to attend white house ceremony. regulations on coal debris being dumped into streams. up with kevin hughes out at powhatan point to about his work in the coal mines. guest: i'm general manager of the ohio county coal company, murray. from years this may. host: why did you get into it? in western jobs up, i lvania where i grew ot out of school and got married, started a family and the mining industry has been very good to me and my family. host: is it something generational family? guest: no, my father was a steel worker. i'm first generation. ost: what is a day in your job like? guest: as general manager, meetings on production and safety, we work on plans for the forward, deal with any kind of labor issues, several things, working with agencies on violations and/or safety aspects of that, also. host: how is coal mined in your mind? miner we use continuous development, we set up the panels with continuous miners take it out with mining. in : how many people work your mine. guest: 348 union people, 120 salary people. has that changed over the past eight year? guest: there was a time when workers, e more coal that is for sure. a larger work group at that mine in particular and most mines to the last eight years of the obama administration. host: what are specific ways impacted you? guest: coal mining industry suffered greatly over the past ight years and we're on somewhat of a rebound right now, everybody is grateful for that. young people , that i work with, are very excited about having an opportunity to continue doing do to support their families. host: how do you see that mine?d at your guest: we're picking up, slow in nature, but contractually and so with coal sales, looks like t is turning a corner, a one, somewhat on rules and regulations also, there is some light at the end of the tunnel, you will. host: what are regulations that life?t daily guest: a lot of them passed in the previous eight years, less on purpose.to coal i don't think they serve good environmental purpose, other destroy the coal industry and some of those laws are being turned around right now. talk you get a chance to to president trump about this. how did that come about? we went to washington, d.c. for signing of bill president trump promised he would sign upon becoming president. we have found president trump to e a man of his word and he did as he said and we were fortunate enough to be present with him signed the bill in washington, d.c. host: we're back at powhatan point, ohio, this morning at the energy company trans-loading facility there. t is about 300 miles northwest of washington, d.c. it is where we've been focusing the "washington journal" on the coal industry and impacts on both the people environment and the regulation of that industry. nick mullins joins us now, an creator of the blog, the thoughtful coal miner and a miner with history of mining in his family. ow far back does that history go? guest: well, it goes back to my grandfather in the 1920s, who worked in areas of virginia for virginia iron and coal company. host: what is the thoughtful miner? why did you get it started? what do you write about? caller: well, the thoughtful coal miner, my way of speaking rhetoric that comes from both the industry and environmentalists to find common the two.tween speaking specifically to miners' asues and trying to help give voice and like i say, keep the at the same time, working to get the truth out there. host: what do you do these day? you are a former coal miner, how long did you serve in the mines do now? do you guest: i worked in the mining industry for about four years, years underground, decided to do that because there weren't of decent jobs in the area that i worked. you know, where my family had pretty much 10 generations, including my kids, to find something with living wage, i ended up in the other ne, like a lot of people. it was a good job to provide a family.oney to my i have to admit that. issues, including health issues, anybody who the mine and e in known anybody who worked in the mine knows that is definitely a problem. what are places you don't think the mining industry and the environmentalists are comes to o when it this discussion we're having in mining?ntry about coal guest: i think it is the miners.ay life of coal you know, listening to bob wasay earlier, you know, he speaking to the dignity and he didn't e job, but talk a whole lot about the health issues, the black lung having, that we're didn't speak to a lot of the injuries that miners have working in mines. yeah, we definitely want to families, but the same time, we don't want to give up our health for it. comes to it environmentalists, they have their hearts in the right place. mining does create a lot of environmental problems. home. witness to it back we had mountain top removal job right behind our house, it urned our family spring where we sourced water to acidic mine drainage. have to me time, we understand there are economic implications in that people in who work in the industry have to find a way to living, especially in areas that are this economically depressed. come of course, has to from the monoeconomy kroeted by the coal industry. host: we hear term green-blue divide in reference to mining mean?ry, what does that guest: well, essentially it's a olarization between environmentalists and the working class. i mean, a lot of jobs in this have environmental implications and environmentalists want to protect that environment, of but people need to have jobs. they want to protect their jobs. there is a huge barrier between the two, it is being created, i enflamed more by the coal industry themselves. they point at environmentalists environmental regulations as job killers. there is no doubt that there's some regulations that have definitely harmed the coal bottom lines, but the ame time, it is not exactly translated down to what i would impactos mining families as much as they trump it up to be. market shifts within the natural gas industry and electrical generation sectors are occurring, those are harder to control. is : another part of this washington, d.c. what don't you think washington, d.c. understands about the where you are? mean, i don't believe that they really understand what it is like to be miner. to face the reality of having to go to work everyday to provide your family with no job lternative in the region to provide anywhere near same amount of money and benefits and same time knowing you are health, knowingr you are risking your life. are proud sacrifices for your family, that is not a choice any person in this and ry should have to make i think a lot of representative necessary washington fall short of understanding that. nick mullins, author of the thoughtful coal miner, thoughtful coal miner.com, check it out on the he'snet or give us a call, with us until the end of the program. joining us from powhatan point. special line for coal miners and family members, 202-748-8000 is that number. f you are in the eastern or central time zone, 202-748-8001. mountain or specific time zone, 202-748-8002. been go to nancy, who has wait nothing washington this morning. good morning. caller: hi. thank you. thanks mr. nick mullins, fascinating listening to you. i have a lot of questions for you. you tell us can in the y're putting streams, especially with the s thatck of the regulation trump rolled back? know, keep clean water what about retraining even just f miners, cleaning up, you know, if we and the coal mines there wer plants, could not be clean up jobs, as well as could be that they retrained for? i'm all for people having support jobs that their families, some point we have to realize our planet, our at stake.is host: mr. nick mullins. guest: excellent questions the first ess question, some things going into the water is heavy metals. that you mine, especially surface mining, taking the large chunks of mountain and rocks that would water would run through the nooks and cranies get heavy metals locked away, crushing them into a fine the r in some cases with blasting, that makes it more leeching of minerals and silennium and various metals like arsenic. it adds oxygen to sulfur around the coal scene, that creates acidification of the water. helps leech out more heavy metals. in the mining process itself, you have various oils of chemicals that leak out equipment. gears are used for heavy of motor oily kind for diesel power equipment and hydraulic fluid. i saw my fair share of that leaking into the mines as we worked. terms of retraining coal definitely a lot of opportunity to be able to work in abandoned mine reclamation, all the issues with reclamation d poor project and pre-reclamation, reclamation being process of restoring the mountain and to prevent erosion after the mining process is completed nd addressing the water issues that follow. there are all sorts of jobs in trained tominers are be able to operate the machinery to do. very, that, miners are very smart people, they have a ingenuity. you have electrician and and rmen, they are crafty know the system, they could be etrained into other form of mechanic and electrical work, perhaps fast-based electrical programs throughout the state to get in to trade licensing. are different options there, but just need the funds to be able to fix all the damage. let's hear from some former coal miners or family embers, nancy on that line calling from georgia this morning. nancy, good morning. caller: good morning. grandma, my grandfather was a coal miner and i grew up in southwestern virginia. talk about the different types of coal mining. engineer.a mining >> announcer: we're listening, o ahead and keep talking through your phone. caller: yeah. and mountain top mine suggest mineing and strip mining is otally different, doesn't involve that many engineers or underground mining. mines are the two mining i hniques he works with and think that the blue-green divide, sort of on the green i work to protect strip little.nd when he was we were successful in the process. mountain top mining is abomination, there are more appalachia sed in every month than used in nagasake and -- combined. abomination, doesn't use engineers. host: let you comment. guest: yeah. would have to agree with that. i mean, strip mining is an asier, more mechanized way of accessing coal. jobs.actually killing it doesn't take nearly as many men or women to be able to erform that job, to run the large equipment and they're actually paid less than underground mining. mining of course requires more people and it does ay more, but it does have issues, as well. people who work in underground coal mines come away with health issues. i mean, they say that 76,000 of black lung d since 1968 and they are starting o see increases in black lung issues, even today, even with campaign, we are starting to see uptick necessary severe cases of black lung new generation of coal miners. but it comes down to pushing industry's the coal game. as much as they want to say they are here to provide jobs and takecare of the people and care of mountain communities, they are here to get the coal ablef the ground and to be to make a profit off it and they try any which way and take any shortcut in some cases in terms production at increase. ost: head to huntington, west virginia. lowell, good morning. caller: good morning. you for taking my call. how much i express appreciate c-span. hydraulic generators on dams the -- inrily showing -- 125 hydraulic generators. we already have locks and dams, generators in place. don't burn any fuel whatsoever. topic you at a studied? i i mean, yeah, there is definitely alternatives to energy. we can put in hydro electric plants, and there are a lot of could produce hydro electric energy. form ombined with another of energy, which i've heard people call the first fuel, efficiency, which, we can retire so many plants and we institute so much more renewable energy sources, but he first thing is decrease our base load, that just means becoming more energy efficient well think we're lagging behind the rest of the world, especially in developed putting in effect energy efficiency law and demand on to bring down to begin with. host: staying on the line for oal miners and family members, judy, silver spring, maryland. good morning. judy, are you with us? yes.er: host: go ahead, ma'am. caller: i'm sorry. my -- thank you for taking call. i grew up in pennsylvania, in all the coal in the '50s. could no longer use coal already in 1950. it wasn't good for us. in the meantime, i had four die from black lung, who had worked in the coal one who had died from alcoholism pause he couldn't mines, so ng in the anything that we can do to get coal now, we should e trying to do and i can't see why we can continue doing it. thanks for my call and i'll take the air.r off host: what would your response be? that is one of the things we have to realize and i'm terribly sorry to hear about your family members. i lost my grandfather to plaque lung and things we have to realize i don without having a nasal oxygen around him. coal has not been kind to appalachia. a lot of people want to say it has been the economy and it is people, but i e just can't believe that. not seeing what has happened to us. there have been billions f tons of coal mined in appalachia, shipped and sold for steel production and electric production and yet we remain economically st distressed counties within the nation. it doesn't make sense. the profits and the amount of does hat leaves this area not translate back into helping the people and doesn't help to translate back into helping coal miners. i mean, there was evidence that being pkins doctors were paid by the coal industry to appeal black lung cases by x-rays, that came up in 2013. here has always been pushback from coal association against mine safety legislation that would help protect coal miners. comes to when it environmental regulation, of course they fight those because do things ey have to much better without taking as protecting ts and streams and water sources. hat translate intoes time and money that takes away from the profits. so we have to be looking toward future, especially for our kids. lot of people want to say this, is their family tradition and done so much for our families, yeah, coal mining has.inly i was raised on coal. we had a pretty good life coal.e of but my parents never wanted me to end up in the mine and i want my kids to end up in the mine and there is a reason for that. e have to protect an industry best ever had us in their interest. host: what did your family say o yyou when you did end up in the mine? they understood i was between a rock and hard place for a job. my mom said, i don't like it, but you got to do what you do. when i left the mine, she cried, she was glad to see me out. mullins, author of the thoughtful coal miner, thoughtful coal miner.com. founder of breaking clean. can you tell the viewers what that is? breaking clean is kind of small company that i mini-communication company. i consider it more of nonprofit, tax ot quite with the status. i try to use it to create media develop stories that are lace based and community based to tell the issues of extraction, not just in ppalachia, but anywhere extraction occurs and companies o in to take advantage of resources without paying back to the people who live there. it is also a means of doing ublic outreach and education about sustainability initiatives and our need to become more nergy efficient and more thrifty with our resources. host: time for a few more calls, on the line for coal miners and family members. adam, jacksonville, ohio. good morning. caller: good morning. ost: go ahead, you're on with nick mullins. caller: i have a question. i was coal miner for about as as have you been, around three years. mechanic and -- as well. hurt august 16th, 17th, early in the morning, herniated c3, 4, 5, 6, i missed work on the 18th because i couldn't of bed. 9th, i went back to work and herniated discs in the middle of anchor.removing buggy my question is, how can a guy go approved ing things when the coal miners are working miner himself l nd, you know, workers' comp is doing the same? have five kids to take care of, like every other coal miner i am disabled and not actually the and 23rd of this month i have to go done and that y is on my wife's insurance and workers' comp and is moreland coal company refusing to help their previous employer or employee out. host: adam, thanks for sharing your story. mullins. guest: yeah, that is one of the again, doesn't seem to make it through the coal industry's media campaign and riends of coal organization campaigns. they don't talk about people like you. they don't talk about people friend, who was had a rib roll out and crushed him car and how shuttle much the company fought him. r another friend who spent 30 years in the mine and developed black lung and lung issues and fought him to keep im from being able to get disability. same with black lung cases. you know, if you talk to injured what they you hear have to say, much better ofrative about the true face the coal industry, not this, you on, coal keeps the lights heritage, honor and miners.for you hear about what happens to coal miners and how the companies think about them and it really has been that way ever since the beginning, people ould always say that the mule was more important than the iner and that miners are just tools and they can just discard you and get something better. been doing ey have that with mag neization. have to understand this is not a compassionate narrative toward coal miners, the industry here to support coal miners, that i are here to upport themselves, profits, quarterly statements and that's it. trying to se is just get people to believe they are here for the prt. host: we'll take viewers to the enate foreign relations committee in a few minutes, want to get as many calls with nick mullins. robert in brooklyn, new york, good morning. caller: yeah, maybe you covered was just wondering in this entage of coal country is using mineing and mine something host: is that something you know about? guest: i can't quote it off the my head there has been a lot of changes in recent years ue to regulations and due to downturn in the coal industry. mining , first, strip probably increased to some degree, especially since it is prohibitive, excuse me, cost effective form of ining and requires less labor overhead and more mechanized, i sorry.have exact numbers, host: go to winden in ohio. good morning. caller: good morning. my call. for taking just a quick note here. lot of involvement in trying to address this matter solutions, the key there really is all about economics. areas ers in the rural like in pipen even fthey need money.they need not they have to work in the coal mine, they recognize the dange dangers, and history on myself here. marine of 12 years with technical background, i orked with offered chemical engineer eight years ago and ubmitted proposal to the local university with regard to complete dynamic reactor of the reason we l, chose biodiesel because it was o fairly clean and only fuel authorized as one to one replacement. called for 1-20th of the normal cost of industry and used less than 60% of the catalyst and the big component of our system was the farthy model that competes with monsanto's. recipesers of the around a coda, where they claimed there was going to be gas up there and they had all of these jobs, and now it is just a destitute area. those records and public documents with regard to research on seeds and plants shows the model would produce more than 500% more than soybeans. and they were appropriate for mountaintop appropriations and such. host: a lot to pick up on. guest: absolutely. there are alternatives. you do not necessarily have to work in a coal mine. i heard it said a lot in the minds. some other jobrk in a heartbeat if i could make the same amount of money i am here. i think a lot of them would even take a pay cut, specially knowing how volatile the industry is, how volatile the markets are, and how much of a lack of jobs security there is in mining. have37 years old and thatssed two busts devastated the industry. the first occurred with my father. there was a huge outmigration, people searching for jobs. people would like alternatives. i do not think anyone is completely married to the coal industry in terms of employment. there are some who are very proud, but even they would perhaps consider a job that did not risk their life and health in the long term. comes back tor a energy efficiency and renewables and developing other energy sources, that is a way we can do these things. we can tackle this problem. if we were not so wasteful with energy, we would not have a national energy problem. that is just the way it works. host: we will have to ended there. if you want to read more about nick mullins' work, it's thethoughtfulcoalminer.com. programl do it for our from powhatan point, ohio. special thank you to andrew jones, our drone pilot, they'll healthfully, our cameraman --