Transcripts For CSPAN Yale Honors Supreme Court Justices 20141129

Have exercised an outsized influence undeveloped of american law and public life. Award of merit has gone to ford and s like gerald bill clinton. It has gone to cabinet carla hills, e hillary clinton, robert rubin. And rnors and mayors outstanding state judges. We continue that e adition by honoring thre who, without any question, have contributed immensely to the substance of american law. We honor three justices of the United States Supreme Court. Each of these justices is quintessentially an american story. Story of upward mobility, of work, of relentless staggering achievement, and great inborn talent. In different ways, and the name of different ideals, each of our arteries has already left already left a mark on the shift of our prudence. From as far back as anyone in this room can remember, the site of as been the passionate argument and disagreement. Ambition has always been to students in the pursuit of their own values. Young men and elp women become as thoughtful and they can ive as possibly be. As they work out, for best to comfort large and complex world. Year, our alumni graduate with widely different worldviews. And that is good. Done our job right, however, are graduate will e thing. They will appreciate the value open ason, of dialogue, of and productive conversation. Those ill listen with whom they disagree. Commitment to these values is a resource in todays where disrespect threatened the tear apart the fabric of our life. Without the virtues of respect and mutual engagement virtues that lie at the heart of the education yale has always driven to provide i fear for our future as a nation. Court of United States has always been at the heart of implacable controversy. The nnot begin to imagine pressures that must engulf every justice. Think about me to the courage and groundbreaking take to stand up. In no institution, therefore, of a yale alues education more important than the Supreme Court. Is a real pleasure to welcome back these three justices. Each of the justice we on today graduated from yale in the 1970s. The program y is before you. Now repeat those biographies. In coming y only that to yale each of these three our community hed in ways foreshadowed the entire country in the role as justice of the Supreme Court. Im going to introduce the in order of seniority. The first to graduate from yale was Justice Clarence thomas, he had been born into racial segregation and property. The house in which he spent his early years had no Running Water and a single electric seven he was e was live with his grandfather, he will later describe as the greatest man he ever knew. He stressed the importance of education so Young Clarence good one day hold down a coat even though he now wears robes. I am getting his grandfather will still be proud. As student at that when o limited he son was one he could not place him to sleep. He would not be that celebrating his 50th reunion. Despite the difficulties of his background Justice Thomas arrived ideal ready to make his mark, even ready before he started the court he got a job. The attorney remembers clarence as a quick learner and the kind of person you are able to trust to do the work will. Thomas brought the same the studies eager balance the community engagement, he obtained a special permission to carry more than the maximum number of credits. Himself to a rigourouscurriculum of corporate law, bankruptcy and transactional. He stayed in the library into a closed at 1 am. It was clear from the start is how very smart he was. His diligence was equalled by an eating suitability the lead to enduring relationships with students and faculty. With a began close pioneering scholar, and the prof tom emerson. And the us decision who passed away this year. Springthomas rst lost his wallet and was returned to him by fellow classmate named john bolton. They became friends and their discussions of politics even became thomas hesitate. Justice thomas voting preferences might have changed since then but his ability to relate to others has not. [laughter] yale law many students who after graduation go onto clark at the supreme the praise a person Justice Thomas is a great human his g, they describe kindness and affection. The celebrate his deep person humanity and his conscious be ort to reach out and to helpful to them in terms of stress and pain regardless of their political beliefs. For is no small thing adjusters a justice in robes. There is no question of his determination, no justice is as relentless in what he feels that is right. Appointed to the court in 1981 at the age of 43 Justice Thomas courts n called the conservative path breaker, on issue after issue he has and shaped the doctrine and has defended his convictions even when few until gradually, and you to the force of his reasoning, way under made their legal mainstream. Him to that of john harlan, while us scholar he should be t accounted alongside Justice Marshall as the courts true visionaries. Court watching is always a tricky business and nobody has clearer than our second honorary samuel alito. He analysed the behindthescenes negotiations the early religion clerk. In that note, he catalogued list of quoting, a long admitted mistaken interpretations to try and motivate the justice system. As a law student, he cannot ood the outsiders begin to guess at the endless compromises involved in constructing an opinion for the court. The career of Justice Thomas he was entire to the Public Service, just like samuel alito. Chambers at one first street. His father, an italian migrant who thought in high school. His mother was a librarian and a teacher and school principal. Both parents were the first in the family to attend college. Justice alito was the perfect student. Of the law n editor journal. Alumni from the class remembers seeing samuel alito in class, where he will always front row in staring intensely at the teacher. He never took a note about question there was a answer, the professor would call samuel ho would always nail it. Samuel alito enjoys a reputation amongst his with the s as somebody utmost integrity, a straight shooter. He has been prayed as one of noblest men in the American Public life. A formidable jurist. Got linguist brown garner to describe them as mebody who writes with power and integrity. Justice alito has major which expressed deep convictions. I would venture to guess that he is now conducting the very that he soberly studied years ago as a yale student. I would furthermention that the force of his presence and intellect is hard to resist. Ill third and final honorary is Justice Sonia sotomayor. Late Justice Thomas her life is about the termination. Born in east bronxfor parents immigrated from puerto rico, sshe grew up in a family to accept the economic disadvantage would dictate what the children would become. Her mother, who worked long hours as a nurse, was famous in a project for saving up to buy sony and her brother a complete edition of the encyclopaedia. The books paid off. From princeton g sshe headed to yale. Sania sotomayors classmate and our dean of the road, described her as tough, clear, and very quick on her feet. How exam was great. [laughter] take do not want to chances but sonia was one of those people that from the very beginning to chances. As a student she chose to study matters which were close to her heart. Prof bill believes it is the written on the subject concerned the application of the equal footing. Prof Stephen Carter rremembers how she was scrupulous but the strongest possible form, even for positions which she disagreed. The yale law board announced a publish public her publication. Path to the court was dedicated to Public Service. She is the only current supreme ho had experience as a District Court judge, this is operates aw actually on a the eyes of ordinary people. Giving the court of perspective and criminal that has been lacking, one is fully informed of how at ngs work on the ground how real people. Has been said about sonia law in or rule of hurtful sense, iin her belief is best served by a shared acceptance of the law. The idea that the law must be legitimate to all americans is noble and essential idea. Anybody who has followed her work in on the court knows that she has proceeded with eloquence and tenacity. So, we have on the stage to date three remarkable graduate of the school. Three graduate which have the call for achievement and who have made a remarkable mark on the american law. Each of you has been inspiration on the Young Students that you teach, it on your own way, forgiving the faith on the value of law, in the profession of law and the law, we thank of you and we give you the Yale Law School award of merit. Which looks like this. Lady s a picture of that whatever w she is, she is very proud of each one of you. Congratulations. [applause] nnow we turn to the highlight of the afternoon a conversation between these. Her career in academia and Public Service includes assistance to you as attorney district of new york, the council ist in of advisers, and in assistance to the attorney general. It also includes more than 25 of his law professor school, where she has written incisively and talked passionately about constitutional law, criminal law and criminal procedure. Dean after ook for a unanimously it turned to her. I very much look forward to the she will lead at the three largerthanlife honories. [applause] iit is a real treat for us have you back here. Decide to go formal, ssome to see going to be able judge garth. We hope your week goes we are very d excited, we have less than an hour and a half. But sometime to get to know you better. My question is will proceeding three birds, first we want to life of the your bench, then about your careers before you went to the Supreme Court, and finally some questions about your work. Theme is the n commonalities between you in some respects. So, robert spoke about your background and surely we all took note that none of you came from a family of lawyers. You all chose this path with independence and great. I wanted to ask you about where you got the grid to serve the law. You are quoted, i was going to go to college and become an when i y, and knew that was 10. Not so much k you what made you want to be an becoming but what did a lawyer mean for you at that tender age of 10 . I thought you were going to to me to say what i was thinking attend was not terribly sophisticated. Despite the , each of the heme, to es that i had from week week was different. There were different people doing different kinds of work interested in different parts society orld the they were in. I had the sense that the law gave one that opportunity to learn new things constantly. Worked in a ol i office, bback then it was one man and a bunch of women. In the Business Office of a hospital, i used to relieve them during the summer when they went on vacation. I knew from the repetitive ms that i wanted something that was constantly assimilating. In the ot thinking them terms, that has changed, in what law is to me now. And how short the career i was going to do after college. Your professional experience, that is particular important in achieving that . It was a joke. [laughter] i said he dreams of playing in the world series. Would have preferred that . In the baseball camp. Lawyers in my family. A bit of did investigation and he used to discuss with us. Job of drawing new ts for the distric he will discuss that, i still current member in bed and listening to machine he was using. Shows you how Much Technology has changed. He was doing different maps of district with equal population using this mechanical editing chine, that was one thing. Another thing that got me interested in law was debating. One year the debate topic had a constitutional it just procedure, fascinated me. Hat provided ook t arguments on both sides that was written by somebody who at bed by a law descri clerk. Time i ever irst saw the word law clerk. What changed your mind . Are you glad you changed it . I dont know if i ever changed my mind. [laughter] what changed is that when the you always say yes, mr president. Reflecting on my colleagues, first of all it is an honour to be here with them. It is a bit overwhelming, and have to be honest with you. Is particularly enamoured to be here with my wife, virginia. This is certainly far more special than other time, i thought my graduation was. About being a lawyer, i thought about being a priest, that was my dream. The next step is to determine vocation and go on. As in the seminary. You went to seminary for one ear . I went for four years. Lot of things happened in the summer of 1968 including a loss a loss of n and faith, tthen you start thinking, what would i do . That is when the idea, i back on people like to kill a mockingbird. These were things are played in mind in 1960s. We were not think it straight whole lot of things, even it when were not using illegal substances. It was a different time. Working onder with was in the community, that was the comforting for us. Wonder a new heaven legal assistance. Good was actually quite because rain naively my thinking at when it was very sophisticated. Yale took me up when in my application i said i was quite taken by the law and i was excited to learn about it. That has continued, somebody who read that actually believed me. It must sound very naive that is true today. Has changed is that, i am not 20 any more, i feel after all these experiences and more idealistic i was back then. Continuous line of questioning, same question to the each of three of you. What personnel dissing has been impediment to your success . Can decline to answer. Start with you, clarence. I figured out that i am pretty much an introvert. That turned out to be one of trace those enormously helpful. Very helpful to to because i have been able there were very difficult quietly. The other thing, for years when i was learning algebra or alone, it was ng persistence. I am very comfortable with doing things over and over until i learned them. Law school enormously illusive, over reading the tax until it over and over made sense. Through made sense were the volumes out. I think persistence i also think respect for others opinions. It is very helpful to me. Gets on omething that the way, i really cant think about anything to work with othersin the way that it is cost free for them to disagree with me. I can is no penalty that respectfully cleared disagree the not in the way to make other person angry. It works fine with me in the court, im sure that my think i am stubborn. I can ask a couple of your colleagues by mcglynn to do that right now. Sonia. He used the word persistence, i use the word stubborn. They are flip sides of the same thing. You just dont want to give up, so you dont. I do believe you have to respect people and you have to like them. Answer to your ion, i have a trade that is enormously helpful. I have an incredible power of concentration. When i am involved in whether it is reading, in my Office People will stand outside my door to i will never hear them. Would shut working i everything out. Was very helpful to absorb information. Harmful, is because that is am on appens to me when i the bench. What i am involved in an argument i become oblivious to the world around me. Am seeking an answer, tthe like am being combative when i am really only looking for an answer. Still k that sometimes it does, i try and i am trying hard as each year passes to correct some of that. Because i have to pursue myself, that we can all see the good in ourselves and admit some of the bad to. Sam. Has been mentioned already, at various times you mentioned that i went to see ge gareth, his joke is that the year i during spent with him. When i came in. And, goodbye judge, when i finished. Was a great mentor. He is still mentally very sharp and he lives near her. My t is another benefit of trip up her, i would have a chance to see him. One of my single movie is being there. Being at the right place at the right time. [laughter] i tell my students about this. Get on a lighter note. The passion for the law, each you is also passion and other things. You are a big baseball fans. Clarence, hhave you ever gone to a baseball game . Are, with your wife jenny, of the nebraska huskers. Is it because your wife is from there . Yes. [laughter] i realise my wife. [applause] really like her mother, aand her mother at reelect me. So my advicetwo people are to get married is what for the motherinlaw. That the ke the fact players graduate. I think it is wrong for this to go to school and do not graduate. When we are nt is patching, hopefully that over by now. Ask you beyond you do with your an e when you are not Supreme Court duties, aand this to give the en answer and then youre going to am going to tell me who i am referring to. Inspired a coffee shop. Who do you think . Do you want to ask the audience to participate . Obviously it is me. Nd re is a little sore behi this comes from my days were my timbers were in new york. There was a old coffee shop, goes back to the 19th one year i had friends who like coffee buddy not had to make coffee. This shop had a promotion they can sign up for a year and go g, and have a n big service of coffee. As a promotion they said that during the course of the year you sampled every blend of coffee that they made, then you could create your own land at the end of the year and name it. So they did that, this involved a lot of sacrifice. Because there were plans like blueberry coffee and horrible things. Which reated this blend is designed for about 3 oclock in the afternoon if youre starting to youre fall asleep. Will jolt e this it you awake. Thats the story behind it. The coffee expert among the that has ended up where would fessor, he go . To seattle. Is as you are serious about your coffee . I drink strong coffee. I had to give it up. I can still get pounds of coffee from puerto rico. They knew i was big coffee drinker. I have an office full of it, friends have it. Clarence . I am more of dunkin donuts. I am eclectic. Im not particularly, no very sore. That is for the obvious, right . One of you enjoys travelling crosscountry with yourself and a 40 foot rv. That is technically iincorrect. It is a better vehicle than an rv. A d rv is normally built on light truck. You are kind of sure about some things. It is old but is very nice. On it, it is a wonderful country and we have been doing it for 15 years. We have been through same western where connecticut, massachusetts, england, ts of new uupstate new york, the west and the south. It is an amazingly beautiful country. The people ever go up to you and say, you look like Clarence Thomas . After the bush era you do not recall that issue. About this motor coaches, there is a lot of work into it. Has to be repaired. The week we had bush to be in to drive at had there. A rescheduled and things were difficult driving down to florida. At a truck n georgia stop, many people do not even know they exist but they are actually very interesting. I am refuelling with all the 18 wheelers. Walks by truckers me and says had has anybody look like you Clarence Thomas . Of you is passionate and they guess we know who that is. In l us about your career salsa, any other justice dance salsa . I very much doubt it. As a ed my mum what i did child because we had parties in of my early most childhood, and i know most of dance but i o couldnt. She said, everytime lessons and ted you would run off do something else. Out i am ound pitchness. Live like a plotted plant. I was turning 50, i was going on to the court of getting and they kept invited to hispanic dancers were salsa was on. They asked me le if i danced. And i found ssons cannot t id totally keep a beat, does not matter what i do i cannot keep a beat. Some have a facility that of my colleagues might find strange, i can follow. [applause] [laughter] fall a little flat in the audience apart from the hispanics, if my partner can keep the beat, i can follow. Among his panicked man, the best dancers in terms of keeping the beat are dominicans. The worst are cubans. That is profiling it. Cubas have this very tight little steps. Dance with a cuban. Before i say yes to anybody, i h them first to sure i can follow, that is great. Got to tell you, my husband always says he is the only put puerto does not rican who does not know how to dance. Are going to start dancing in the conference. [applause] now you know. A question that works really well. Tell us about a book you have why it was ly and good. Books that are inspirational and they keep them on the table by my bed, i tried to read them a little bit every night. It is mmy grandfathers son and my beloved world. Quick thinking. [laughter] hes keeping it with his two consultations in his pocket. Hard question to answer. I tried to read other things law over the he summer. Comes to an mer end, i always try to keep it up. Our lives is reading amount of legal material. Of short works, tthings you can read in a day, valve for the coming term. Had read things i years ago. Story from high school and i realised at had not understood it. That is what im doing. Books bination of legal and nonlegal books. I read a book by going league and i am not he did not write it. The so read about some of amendments he would have in power. I read because my college of you may ho some still sends me books. Mortal life of henrietta. I love the book, it did not in an each me science way but it had a very moving and description of only changes s the the world but the individuals affected by it. Done it was beautifully and incredibly interesting. Is a next and there personal book, timeless. It is a little bit law because it talks about cases, but is him and her as people. Youu pick up the things they are friends recommend you. It varies. Clarence. I must admit, i think reading is a gift. It is a gift that they prayed for when i was a kid. I am very thankful, i read quite a bit. Agreed to do things, to teach courses and things am ed in. T recently agreed to law of literature class. We were doing native son. In my it was critical own development. I reread that. Last year we did to kill a mockingbird. But each time you read it you see something different. I taught at the George Washington university. Stories ially the behind constitutional law. This is my fourth year. I thought another one which is another set of readings. I really need a fulltime job. Forces does is that it read in different ways things that are important to me and that are helpful. Reading Richard Wright aat this point of my life is quite different. When did you first read it . When i was 16. Tly, eact quite differen and read it once again during my law school years. Then i read it afterwards. It many times, but you see different from a different perspective. I read your to, book preparing for the day. Some you have to get moving there. On to law move school, when we first ask you your time in yale school. Know about some episodes, good or bad. You can tells if it was true if never raised your hand. Sounds good. Sses and some cla great professors. By a walked over firstyear student, i had a good chance to talk to him on them ay over and asked about what courses hes taking. Things have changed here. That some things to stay the same. He was a wonderful teacher. I am happy to hear he is doing very well after recent surgery. Good some of the very i was courses, reminded that i somehow made it to the final rounds. There was an incident that i mentioned to the students, during one of the preliminary rounds one of the judges was just hammering me with one particular question. As best i he question could, he answered it again. Then i said, i would like to move onto my other arguments. He said, you have not answered my question. Consider was, i answered it to my satisfaction. [laughter] tthis is an incredibly let me nded person which move on. I never knew that about you. What about you clarence . I think of law school as a blur. There was some people which were very good to me, you mentioned the dean thomas. I consumed a lot of his time. There were professors here that very good to me. They spent time with me. Spent time with me when i took a couple of his courses. Found it great. Left in y had kept the the dorm, which would meet a breakfast. I think it was at 8 oclock. You were contribute booed out. There was tax, corporate finance. Get st admit that i did not as much as the law school as i should have. Because of my attitude, that is what encouraged students this morning to not replicate. A very difficult time. Clarence, i really did not know how to take full advantage of the law school. Giving our backgrounds and the do not have anybody related to law, i did the things that sounded like you had to do. Claude seem like too much writing sided barristers union. I was already doing plenty of writing in other activities. Ey spoke to me about clarkin year of e are my third law school. Heard about clerking. I believe people come here without the knowledge to take full advantage. Now talk with students but i believe some of it is us. Found out about the clerkships two years after i was gone. Not going to repeat what is on my book. Will say that in high school i was near the top of my class. I learned the deep sense of humility. Next to my ting to them es, listening in class, taught me how much many other people were and how smart has different faces. I tend to agree. Me it was more by the a sense eft there was i had an ence that assessment of where i needed to be. Then it was a question if i would have the commitment together. There are some things i am involved in now where we try to bridge the gap for talented kids from difficult or challenging backgrounds. But i do think when i left yale, i had a sense of how right or how much others knew and how much i needed to learn to be where they were. And that would take years. I go back to the point about persistence was i going to be persistent enough and have the will to continue preparing to get there . Let me ask about getting there. This is an other commonality. After you left Yale Law School, you started your career as government attorney. And that is in washington dc. You served as an assistant attorney general in missouri doing tax work under john danforth. Sam, your first job after the Army Reserves was to serve as an assistant u. S. Attorney in new jersey. Sonia, you served under our great graduate bob morgenthaler. We want to know how these postlaw School Experiences shaped you . I dont want to say shaped you as a justice, because then you might not want to answer it. Which of your jobs, and there are a lot of them, the most important preparation for the Supreme Court . You were in the Missouri Attorney Generals Office and then two years inhouse at monsanto he worked on the hill as an aide to senator danforth, served at the department of education, and served as chair as the eeoc before your year and a half on the d. C. Circuit. Which of these was the most important preparation . First of all, i was in missouri and probably wound up with these jobs. I dont want anyone to think i had a conscious plan. I would have to say each job was a good job and even the difficulties were opportunities to learn and to grow and that is the way i looked at them. Not all of them were the most gratifying or fulfilling jobs, but i have not had a bad job. It was Jack Danforth, and he is a good man. He said he could promise us more work for less money than anybody in the country. And he delivered on that. But it was a wonderful learning opportunity. The best job i had for me personally among the jobs i have had to prepare me for what i do, i would have to say eeoc. Tell us about that. There were a lot of challenges. Im not going to go back and relive that, but there were challenges and criticisms and i was constantly in trouble. You learn how to remain calm and make hard decisions under difficult circumstances. You learn to double check and recheck and make sure you are right. Also, you learn how not to become unpleasant because there is unpleasantness around you to accept certain things. You cant always retaliate. I would have to say eeoc and i learned people who work closely with you appreciate you being loyal and good to them as Jack Danforth was to me from 1974 on. I would have to say eeoc taught me that discipline and calm in difficult circumstances. Sam, you spent four years as an assistant attorney where i gather a lot of your cases were appeals for the Third Circuit and nu argued 12 cases before the Supreme Court. After that, you spent two years as deputy at oh lc and then you were appointed the president to be the u. S. Attorney for the district of new jersey. Tell us about these you went from being a legal eagle most of your life to now running an office. What was that like . It was the biggest change in my career. A lot different from what i had gone before and radically different from what came after. Being a circuit judge, particularly on my court where they are spread out, its one of the most isolated legal jobs that exist. Other courts may operate to and we got along very well, but i could go literally for weeks without ever seeing another human being at work except for the people in my own office. The u. S. Attorney job was completely different. Basically all i did was read and write and Exchange Emails with my colleagues and go to philadelphia for oral arguments. The u. S. Attorneys office was a big office by the standards of the day and there was always something happening. Every day when i came in, i might have things i planned to do but there would be a dozen things i had not land. Good things, not so good things the assistant would come in and we would have to deal with that problem. The heads of different investigative agencies came in. It was fascinating to stop it was fascinating. It did not involve a lot of reading or deep analysis, but its a tactical job trying to make sure everyone in the office was moving in the right direction and handling their cases and investigations properly. After serving under bob morgenthaler, you were in private practice for nine years. You did not serve for five years, making you the only justice with that experience. How have these different roles and positions informed your respect of on the law . I had a thought even from law school that you knew the profession was moving toward specialization and at some point, i would have to pick an area. Even in law school, i spent time learning about different yields that i thought made a more wellrounded lawyer. Even know i was specializing in international law, hence my note, i took corporations, i took contract, i took evidence, i took the states and trust. All of the subjects that i thought made a wellrounded attorney. When i got to the das office, there was some frustration there. A state court is very different from state prosecution. Resources are scarce. The people involved are wellmeaning but also sometimes not well trained. Witnesses are often scared and we dont have the federal resources of witness protection in the same way. After four and a half years, i decided i had rounded out the criminal right of my lawyering and wanted to learn something about the civil side. So i went to a commercial law firm, but i did everything as a litigator. Now i have a sub specialty and intellectual property. But i did it states there, i handled real estate matters, i handled banking matters you name it, i did a little bit of everything and some big things as well. That repaired me for the District Court. Watching judges who have become judges recently, a lot of them come from specialties and i think they have the basics of law and i had developed a more wide basis of legal knowledge starting with my District Court job. Even with that, there was a ton to learn. I have learned a lot. The District Court let me tell you a story. Last year, i was having lunch with the chief and Justice Kagan and it was just the three of us. We started talking about how hard our senior justices worked in the various federal circuits. Without thinking about it, i said when or if i retire, im going to go back to the District Court. When asked why, i said why would i want to go on doing what im doing for however many years it has been . I want to go back to my first love and District Court is a different and exciting place. For me, it was the formative experience preparing me for the court. I still look at cases a lot like District Courts do. I look at the facts and try to apply the facts to law and my colleagues look at the law and that is all they look at. It is one i will never disavow because it has value. For me, my greatest time was on the District Court in terms of preparing me for the Supreme Court. How about you . Which of those things the you think you took the most from sitting as a justice . Arguing is much more closely related to what i am doing, so that had a greater effect, but i treasure the experience of being u. S. Attorney. We sort of moved on to your service on the Supreme Court and there was an initial question what surprised you when you got to the court mark did anything surprise you mark monday nor important . In monday and matters, we are more formal the way we operated internally than i was used to on the court of appeals. Two thirds of our cases come from the federal courts of appeals. We are more formal in the way we operate. There was rarely anybody present, so the time expired and if any judge had more questions more time would be given or if the lawyers hadnt covered everything, more time would be given. You cant really do that when you have nine on the bench and you have the kind of schedule we have. Our internal operations are very oldfashioned. We dont communicate with each other at all. All of my communications with colleagues were by email. We still have the tunes by our seats on the bench. You said being on the regional courts of appeals, at least one thats got many state, now you are all in the same building i thought you were going to say our communications are by telephone or face to face the communication about cases almost always are written except when we are in conference and we are talking there. There are some, and theres nothing wrong with it, communications that are oral but if you have comments about someones opinion, the standard procedure is to write a letter and circulate it to everybody on the court. We are together a lot more. For me, its a much less isolated job. We are in the same city, in the same building and we are together for many more days. Days we have arguments, we have lunch together very frequently, so we see each other a lot more than i did on my old court. Clarence . I cant say i was surprised. I had no idea what i had gotten myself into. It was very formal. I dont like a lot of the informal stuff. Your old boss, byron white, he would send around a memo dear clarence, i dont agree with the thing you said, cheers, byron. [laughter] every letter was cheers, byron. Its a little disconcerting because we are in the same building and we dont see each other that much except when we are sitting or have conference. I usually come in, go to my chambers and work and go back to the basement, get in my car and go home. I use email but when i first got to the court, there was not internal email, so i dont think we have gotten there yet. I was in charge in those days of the automation, so we have all of that now. We can do a lot of things on the computer on a document together. I do it with my law clerks that people prefer hardcopies and things like that. I work almost exclusively paperless. I think at some point, we will do it in the court. The thing that surprises me is how warm everybody was when i got there. I was pleasantly surprised by that, by how engaged everyone was. I walked from an argument with john stevens is a delightful and brilliant man and you could Start Talking about cases you had earlier in the week or you are working on an opinion and he is fully engaged, or justice oconnor, same thing. It was a wonderful environment, an environment where people were not raising their voices but thinking they were of the view that the work was more important than they were and our job was to turn out the best product we could. Thats the court i came to and thats the way i think the court is now. I was very pleasantly surprised at how much work it took. I came on the court and i was 40 years younger than justice locklin at the time. Hes doing it in his 80s, so i said it can be all that hard. He was cruising along and i had fallen along the way. The boss used to tell me, clarence you have to get a system and learn how to do this job systematically. I have to say the number one thing for me was just how warm and respectful and dignified the people were with whom i worked, whether they agreed or didnt. That was my biggest surprise. I was surprised by all of this as well. For me, the tradition had one positive thing which it taught me that the court as an institution was much more important than i was as an individual justice. That is a very important lesson for justices to learn and to live by. Sometimes the tradition is little silly. At lunch, we have to sit in our s chair. Justice at lunch, why have i forgotten our previous is our previous justices chair. That is not by seniority, but that chair has been sat on by all the judges. When someone moves, you feel a lot of eyebrows raise. Why are you sitting there . I have fallen prey to that stop what are you doing here . It can be overwhelming at times, the tradition. I think there are two reasons the justices dont use technology so much. One is tradition and the other is some of them dont know how. Then there is that. The almost 90yearold justice when i came to the court, Justice Stevens, did use email. You could send him something and he would respond, but it was very short, so i knew he wasnt a great typist, but colleagues who you might be otherwise surprised i think the most computer savvy justice is clarence. In his defense, Justice Stevens was my ally in automating the agency. He was a very productive man. People used to make fun of him when he went to florida but we dreaded when he went to florida because he would start churning all of this stuff out and he was always on his computer. You are 80 as productive he was a wonderful ally and in fact, when there was some consternation early on about automation, he was one of the people i could count on to always help me convince my colleagues to move in that direction. I will Say Something thats a different view of the isolation you talk about. Ive chosen to be on the second floor and im the only justice up there. I recognize it is a problem because im separated from my colleagues. Those steps down, sometimes they seem a bigger barrier than they should. So, i dont just decide, as i have done before in other courts and my colleagues were nearby, to just walk by and plop myself down to say hello. I want to do that. We have colleagues who do that. Steve breyer . And a couple of others. And we do have some colleagues who like doing it. I think it is personality. I really do think its what were most comfortable with as individuals. With respect to the question that you asked, ive often said, i fell prey to what i think the public does in reading art opinions. You read our opinions. You agree with one side or the other, anything to yourself, this was perfectly clear. This was not that hard to figure out. And then what you do not see is how difficult almost every case before us is. It does not come to us unless there is a circuit split. If theres split it is because, some could argue this point, but the reality is i think most of our court of appeals judges are reasonable people. And they are giving their best effort at giving an answer. I find myself struggling a lot more than i anticipated. Yet, when you write the opinion, all of you and your colleagues, you read the majority opinions. You read the dissenting opinion, and each one seems quite confident they got it right. But you are saying you picked great lawyers. Every one of us was an advocate. Every one of us can pitch the best argument on either side that you could raise. Now, once weve come to our conclusion, the purpose of opinion is to persuade. And you are going to do an opinion that you hope persuades. Even though you may be experiencing some initial doubt about the answer. I think that, for me, that part of it is very much a surprise. Very interesting. Sam, do you have anything to add to this . What makes a case hard . What sonia said about the difficulty of the cases is correct. Most of them are cases where there is a conflict by definition those are cases with respect to which there are two reasonable positions that you can take. I keep in mind the fact that the last opinion of mine from the Third Circuit, which was in opinion for the on bank court, was reversed by the Supreme Court 90. [laughter] im still absolutely sure i was correct. The issue was whether a woman was ineligible for Social Security Disability Insurance benefits because she could do the last job that she previously had. This womans last job was as an elevator operator. So, i said rather simplemindedly that the ability to do your last job should not count if that job does not exist anywhere in the real world. But the Supreme Court in its great wisdom said it does not matter whether the job exists. I do keep that in mind. [laughter] hes still a good lawyer. Still bothers you, huh . No, clarence. I have gotten over it. Remember it very well. Speaking of your colleagues, there is something ironic. Yale law school is supreme when it comes to populate law school faculties. Another fact is that four of your colleagues were fulltime law professors. Breyer, ginsburg, kagan, and scalia. This is the most Academic Court of all time. Yet, none of the former professors are yalies. None of you. I am getting to a question here. Are there too many former professors . Are there too many former Appeals Court judges . Not enough of something else. And anyone can take this on. As far as academics is concerned, we are at a dangerous tipping point. They are almost in the majority. Who knows what they will do to us when they have control. Being a court of appeals judge is perfect preparation. [laughter] no question about it. Its helpful. I dont know whether that kind of being a court former court of appeals judge, being an academic having held an elected position, i do not know whether that kind of diversity of experiences is critically important. Diversity of experience is very valuable. Many different types of diversity. We all have, as sonia mentioned, very few people today have the kind of generalist background that she acquired. A lot of people spent a lot of their career specializing in some areas. And we all have areas where we have to write opinions that are going to be binding on the country in areas where we have no background. For example, i did not one bit of patent work. My first involvement in patent law is in voting on patent cases. It is unavoidable. That will be true for all of us. It is valuable for us to have that kind of diversity as far as fields of specialization and knowledge. Anybody else care to comment on the observation the courts make up . Justice thomas, you have served on different courts. It has changed. I served about two weeks on the court of appeals. Different Supreme Court. New people coming in. I have Great Respect for, i think the work that our judges do. I think they allow us the earlier question about confidence in the opinions. I do not think we can write, woe is me. Im having a hard time with this. I am crossing the rubicon and all that sort of stuff. You have to write the opinion. And you write it as best and is clearly as you can. But sometimes i think we write it in a way that belies the insecurities we might have or the uncertainties in the argument. I think we have to be open in the next cases to reexamine that. That is something i try to do in chambers go back and make sure, rethink old opinions. But as far as the makeup of the court, i do not feel that im in a position to say who is better qualified. Our colleagues who are academics, from the academic world. Who would be replaced . I like them all. I think they are all fabulous. You do not have to agree with them. You do not have to agree with Justice Ginsburg to know she does fabulous work. When you are in a disagreement with her, she is going to force you to do better work. So, i just, i like the court the way it is. I do think we should be concerned that all of us are from two law schools. Im sure that harvard and yale likes that. But, i think we should be concerned about that to some extent because this is a big country. I also think we might want to think about the fact that we have such a strong northeastern orientation when the country, there is a lot of country between here and the west coast. I mean, those are my peaves. But i wouldnt, i could not say that somebody on the court who is been a colleague of mine should not have them there or should not be there. They are wonderful people. I may have, surprising, a dissenting view. You know, any one individual does not represent anything. You do not represent the justice who is an elected official. You do not represent a justice who has come from a single practice. And it is not as if youre going to be an advocate for an interest group. So justices do not play advocates in that sense of the word. But i do think that, as youre evaluating the human condition, as you are talking about how you expect the reasonable person to respond, how you talk about what a reasonable Police Officer would would not do and all of these questions that we look at constantly, it is helpful to have people with Life Experiences that are very. It enriches the conversation. Im worried we are not geographically diverse. By the way, i did not think the president was going to pick me because of that. But i and surely happy that he ignored me. And picked me anyway. It is hard to say who you would give up, because nobody wants to say it should be them. But i do think geographic. I think religious. We all believe in god, but there are issues that come up in terms of reactions where having a different perspective may be useful. But i also think that we are missing things on the court. We are missing any justice who has had criminal defense experience. Everybody has either been a u. S. Attorney, a government attorney. We do not have a civil rights lawyer except ruth. But we do not have one in bald involved in general civil rights. I think that is a type of practice that is different. Tony kennedy did a little bit of solo practice. But his was a unique practice in california. And it was a product of his dad. He joined his father. Weve got a a lot of firm lawyers. Except for me, there is no midsize or small, single practitioner. I think you need diversity, not just life background, but of legal experience background. We are being asked to decide questions involving not just ordinary people but the profession. And so, i for one, if i had the power, which i do not, obviously, i would encourage the people who appoint justices or judges generally to look at that diversity. When senators ask me what i thought how they should pick nominees to district and circuit courts, i would say look at your bench and see what Life Experience or professional experience it is missing. And look for people who can bring and enrich the court with that. All of you have mentioned colleagueship and friendships on the court. We dont witness your interactions, both formal and informal. In some measure of her colleagueship im going to try something. Im going to ask each of you to tell us something about the other two. And maybe something we might not know or something we do know. I have chosen these pairings at random. So, sonia, tell us something about clarence. Clarence knows the name of every employee in the court house from the lowest position to the highest. [applause] with virtually all of them, he knows their families. Their happinesses and their tragedies. It is, when robert introduced him, he talked about his humanity and caring. That fact alone made me understand that as much as we may disagree on a lot of legal issues, we do not disagree on the fundamental value of people. And you can respect someone who you disagree with legally if you start with that foundation in principle. Thank you. Sam, can you tell us something about sonia . Clarence, you can figure out. You can start thinking ahead. Lets see if you read my book. Every night. [laughter] i think i am not going to tell you something that you do not already know, but these are traits i admire. Sonia is very independent. She is very, very thorough in her preparation. Not only on the merits cases but on the hundreds of cert petitions that we discuss every term. She is very strong in her views, and she does not give up on the rest of us. Even when she sees we are going off in the majority is going off in the wrong direction, you might just drop your hands and say, well, what can i do . But she has hope that she can convince us. She makes good arguments. And sometimes she succeeds. Great. Ive been called incessantly optimistic. Clarence . Goodness. She never gives up. [laughter] just relist that. Sam is, first of all, he is married to martha anne who is a delight and who is a wonderful person. Sam is really smart. Really funny. Principal. And a man of his word. And its something when you can look someone in the eye and he tells you something, and you can take him at his word, that is a treasure, i tell my law clerks often that a reputation is hard to build and easy to lose. With us, sam has a wonderful reputation of integrity and honesty. Plus, hes really a funny guy. And for some reason he likes the philadelphia teams, which i do not understand. Thankfully, the one time we had a bet, i won. You had a bet . My first year on the bench, the phillies and the yankees were playing against one another. We made a lunch bet. I had to treat him to philadelphia cheesesteak sandwiches and he had to treat me to new york hot dogs and beer. I got a really good lunch. Thank you. You did. It was not easy to find Brooklyn Lager in washington. Searched a lot of places. This was the bet on the 2009 world series. I think it will be a long time before have another bet. I agree. This year is going to be kansas city. Justice thomas you mentioned that you tell your law clerks that reputation is hardfought and can easily be lost. Let me use the final question asking each of you what is the best or most important advice you gave to the students with whom you met this morning . Each met separately with 30 students chosen by lottery. Sam . I met with a really smart group of students who had the good sense not to ask me for advice. So, i cant tell you advice i actually gave them. But i will tell you advice that i would have given them if they had asked me. [laughter] people around here just give advice without being asked. Maybe it will filter out to them. First, i do not know how relevant this is to their own experiences, because it off a lot of time has passed since i was here. The first is to find your own path. At least when i was here, a lot of smart students who had been on an achievement track. So, the question was not, what do i want to do next but what is the thing to do next as i compete to get into the best college and the best law school and then get the best clerkship, and work for the best firm . At some point, i think you need to get off that track and ask what you personally want to do. And if you have not done it before, when you graduate from law school, i think that is the time to do it. And the second is not to confuse your legal career with your life. Do not make your legal career your entire life. Dont define your worth in terms exclusively of what you do in your career. I know people for my Law School Class who did that. And it led to very unfortunate consequences. So that is advice that would have given, but did not have the chance. Thank you. Sonia . I do not know what the students would say, but ill change up a little bit of what i said. When i was looking into which law schools to attend id narrowed it to harvard or yale. And i talked this is the age before the internet, ok . So, i had to talk to people about those institutions. And every harvard graduate that i spoke to, Harvard Law School graduate, would say the toughest years of my life but i loved it. And every yale alumni that i talked to would say the best years of my life. And that difference in response is what convinced me to come to yale. And i have subsequently through years thought about i said that same thing. And i think it is in part what sam has said. Yes, there is tracking. But i think there is tracking because there is a model of success the people see and want to duplicate because that is the only model they know of. But the one thing i loved about yale is it lets you be passionate about whatever you wanted to be. Amen. You could work with whatever professor, doing whatever kind of work you wanted to do, and people volunteered to do it. And they did it because it was important to them to do. And i loved that. My friends and other institutions they will remain nameless are sort of picked by reason of how smart the professors think they are or they are picked for programs based on that. When i was here, law journal, you wrote on. You could volunteer for almost any organization and get in. I hope that is still the case. But my point basically is i now echo sam. I told the students be happy here. I did not finish my advice by saying, be happy by doing what makes you happy. Be passionate about what you are doing. And that is the value of what you are getting. Thank you. Clarence . Well, i guess i told him not to do what i did. [laughter] i think sonia is right that there is a lot we did not know. And i wish i came here at a time, where i couldve been more positive. There were so much here that i walked right by because i close my eyes and my heart to it. I credit Jack Danforth with a lot of opening my eyes to things. When i met him, again through guido calebresi, who did not teach me torts, i remember meeting him when he came on campus and he was a young, tall attorney general with that spot in his hair. He clapped his hands really loud and said, clarence, plenty of room at the top. I said, boy, that guy is off his rocker. [laughter] but that was just how cynical and negative i was. And here he was positive and energetic and believed in you, believed in the possibilities. And what i tried to convey to the students is that attitude of hopefulness. Youre here. At one of the best of not the nation. You are here. And make the most of it. The friendships, the opportunities to learn, to do things, to grow. I also suggested to them that when they take a job, the jobs are wonderful. But all of the other things are equal, work for the person. Work for a good person, a good person can turn a difficult job into a wonderful job. And a bad person can turn out beautiful job into a miserable job. I was fortunate to work for Jack Danforth. Some people might not of thought the work was glamorous but i got to work for a good man. And who 40 plus years later, i think of in an even more positive light than i did when i worked for him in 1974. So, i think it is important to work for good people, people of integrity, people who are positive. And finally, although i did not get a chance to say this to them, i do believe this. You treat people the way you expect to be treated, whether they deserve it or not. They are owed that. That is hard to do. A part of going to the things that sonia mentioned earlier is the ability to let things go. To forgive and forget and to turn and move on. That is not so easy. But you want to be forgiven. You want people to give you a pass sometimes. You want people to think better of you. So you do it to others. So i feel very strongly that we are required to treat people the way that we want to be treated. And finally, i think even when it is hard, you are required to be honest, not to give in to fads, not to go along to get along. I think a lot of people i grew up on segregation. And im convinced that some people went along because it was easier to do that than it was to oppose something that was dreadfully and morally wrong in our society. We are so very proud of all of you. And were grateful to you. Thank you. [applause] sonia, that was wonderful. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] pulitzer prizewinning reporter and author james on how the u. S. Government wastes billions of taxpayer dollars on the war on terror. Bowen was the only u. S. Official who became best tried to investigate with try to investigate what happened to all the money sent to iraq. , roughly 20ion billion in iraqi money that United States sent back to iraq was unaccounted for. S investigators found, nearly 2 billion in cash after00 bills was stolen it was flown from Andrews Air Force base to baghdad. It was being hidden in a bunker in rural of not. Rural lebanon. Join us sunday, december 7 as we get an insiders view of covering president gerald ford to barack obama. Passing a budget extending certain tax breaks and approving nominations and responding to the president immigration actions. These are part of the to do list facing congress when it returns monday. We get details from cq roll call