There and i would claim and challenge you that there is no such example that you can give. Thats why i brought up the example in my presentation of lenskis experiments in regard to ecoli and there was some that seem to develop the ability to exist on citrate but as dr. Said from looking at his research, he has found that that information was already there. Its just a gene that switched on and off and so there is no example because you know , information thats there and the Genetic Information of different animals, plants, and so on, is no new function that can be added. Certainly great variation within a kind and thats what we look at. But youd have to show an example of a brand new function that never previously was possible. There is no such example that you can give anywhere in the world. Name one institution, business or organization other than a church, Amusement Park or the Creation Museum that is using any aspect of creationism to produce its product . Any scientist out there, christian or nonchristian, that is involved in inventing things , involved in Scientific Method is using creation. They are because they are borrowing from a christian world view. They use the laws of logic. I keep emphasizing that. I want bill to tell me and a view of the universe as a result of natural processes, explain then where the laws of logic came from. Why should we trust the laws of nature . I mean are they going to be the same tomorrow as they were yesterday . In fact, some of the greatest scientists that ever lived, isaac newton, james clerk maxwell, michael faraday, were creationists. And as one of them said, you know, thinking gods thought after him and thats really modern science really came out of. That thinking, that we can do experiments today and we can do the same tomorrow. We can trust the laws of logic. We can trust the laws of nature. And if we dont teach our children correctly about this, theyre not going to be innovative. And theyre not going to be able to come up with inventions to advance in our culture. And so, i think that the person was trying to get out that see , you know there are lots of , secularists out there doing work and they dont believe in creation and they came up with great inventions. Yeah, but my point is they are borrowing from the christian world view to do so and as you saw from the video clips i gave, people like dr. Faulkner has published in the secular journals. Theres lots of creationists out there who publish. People might know that theyre creationists because the topics do not specifically pertain to creation versus evolution but theres lots of them out there. If you go to our website, theres a whole list there of scientists who are creationists, who are out there doing great work in this world. And helping to advance technology. Theres a reason that i dont accept your ken ham model of creation. It is because it has no predictive quality as you touched on. And something that ive always found troubling, it sounds as next time around, you can it sounds as though you believe your worldview which is literal interpretation of most parts of the bible is correct. What became of all those people who never heard of it . Never heard of you. What became of all those people in asia . What became of all those First Nations people in north america . Were they condemned and doomed . I mean i dont know how much time you spend talking to strangers but theyre not sanguine about that. To have you tell them that they are inherently lost or misguided. Its very troubling. And you say there are no examples in nature, there are countless examples of how the process of science makes predictions. Since evolution teaches that man is evolving and growing smarter over time, how can you explain the numerous evidence of mans high intelligence in the past . Hang on. Theres no evidence that men, humans are getting smarter. No, especially if you ever met my old boss, no, its that what happens in evolution, its a british word that was used in the middle 1800s. Its survival of the fittest and this usage, it doesnt mean the most pushups or the highest scores on a standardized test, it means that those fit in the best. Our intellect such as it is has enabled us to dominate the world i mean, the evidence of humans is everywhere. James cameron just made another trip to the bottom of the ocean, the deepest part of the ocean, the First Time Since 1960 and when they made the first trip they found a beer can. Humans are everywhere and so it is our capacity to reason that has taken us to where we are now. If a germ shows up as it did for example in world war i where more people were killed by the flu than were killed by the combatants in world war i, that is a troubling and remarkable fact. If the right germs show up, well be taken out. Well be eliminated. Being smarter is not a necessary consequence of evolution. So far, it seems to be the way things are going because of the remarkable advantage it gives to us. We can control our environment and even change it as we are doing today, apparently by accident. So everybody just take a little while and grasp this fundamental idea. Its how you fit in with nature around you, so as the world changes, as it did for example for the ancient dinosaurs, they were taken out by a worldwide fireball apparently caused by an impactor. Thats the best theory we have. And we are the result of organisms that lived through that catastrophe. Its not necessarily smarter, its how you fit in with your environment. I remember at university, one of my professors said that he was very excited to give us an evidence for evolution. He said look at this, heres an example. These fish has evolved the ability not to see and he was going to give me an example of a blind cave fish and he said see , in this cave, they are evolving because now the ones that are living in there, their ancestors have eyes but these ones are blind. And i remember telling my professor, wait a minute, now they cant do something that they can do before. They might have an advantage in this sense, in a situation thats dark like that. Those that had eyes got diseases and died out. Those that had mutations and no eyes are the ones that survived. Its not survival of the fittest. Its survival of those who survive. And its survival of those who have the information in the circumstance to survive but its not youre not getting new information, youre not getting new function. Theres no example of that at all so we need to correctly understand these things. We are down to our final question. It is a question for both of you. Lets give each man two minutes on this. I will have you start first here, mr. Ham. Mr. Nye will have the last word. What is the one thing more than anything else upon which you base your beliefs . Well, again, to summarize the things that ive been saying, there is a book called the bible. Its a very unique book. Its very different from any other book out there. In fact, i dont know of any other religion that has a book that starts by telling you that theres an infinite god and it talks about the origin of the universe, the origin of matter, the origin of light, the origin of darkness and the origin of day and night and the origin of the earth, the origin of dry land, and the origin of plants, the origin of the sun, moon and stars, the origin of the sea creatures, the origin of flying creatures, the origin of land creatures, the origin of man, the origin of woman, the origin of death, the origin of sin, the origin of marriage, the origin of different languages, the origin of clothing, the origin of nations, i mean its a very , very specific book and it gives us an account of a global flood in the history and the tower of babel and if that history is true, then what about the rest of the book. Well that history says that man is a sinner, that says that man is separated from god and it gives us a message we call the gospel. A message of salvation that gods son stepped into history and died on the cross and raised from the dead and offers a free gift of salvation because the history is true thats why the message based in history is true. I actually went through some predictions and listed down some of these and theres a lot more that you can look at and you can go and test these for yourself. If this book really is true, it is so specific it should explain the world. It should make sense of what we see. The flood, yeah, we have fossils all over the world. The tower of babel, yeah, different people, different languages, flood legends very similar to the bible, creation legends similar to the bible, and prophecies and so on. And most of all, as i said, the bible says if you come to god, believing that he is, he will reveal himself to you and you will know. If you search out the truth, if you really want god to show you as you search out for the silver and gold, he will show you. He will reveal himself to you. Would you repeat the question . What is the one thing more than anything else upon which you base your beliefs . As my old professor carl sagan said so often, when you are in love, you want to tell the world. And i base my beliefs on the information and the process that we call science. It fills me with joy to make discoveries everyday, of things ive never seen before. It fills me with joy to know that we can pursue these answers. It is a wonderful and astonishing thing to me that we are, you and i, are somehow at least one of the ways that the universe knows itself. You and i are a product of the universe. Its astonishing. I see your faces and we have come to be because of the universes existence. And we are driven to pursue that, to find out where we came from. And the second question we all want to know, are we alone . Are we alone in the universe . And these questions are deep within us and they drive us. So the process of science, the way we know nature is the most compelling thing to me. And i just want to close by reminding everybody whats at stake here. If we abandon all that weve learned. Our ancestors, what theyve learned about nature and our place in it. If we abandon the process by which we know it, if we eschew, if we let go of everything that people have learned before us, if we stop driving forward, stop looking for the next answer to the next question, we and the United States will be outcompeted by other countries, other economies. Now that would be okay, i guess. But i was born here, im a patriot. And so we have to embrace Science Education. To the voters and taxpayers that are watching, please keep that in mind. We have to keep Science Education in science, in science classes. One tiny bit of important housekeeping, the county is now under a level two snow emergency. Drive home carefully. You have a lot to talk about but drive carefully. This debate will be archived at debatelive. Org. It will be at that site for several days. You can encourage friends and family to watch. Thanks so much to mr. Nye and mr. Ham. [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [no audio] would see five things. Stem. We have got to get math and science back into our schools. We are being in the 20s in math and science is a tough place to be, and theres not one job in our factories that you could ork at that isnt automated need some basic analytical skills, and we have fallen way behind. Our focus on stem is important. That is where the Ge Foundation spends most of its money. And try toge towns change the curriculum of education and focus on math and science in education. We believe in high standards. Its a little bit controversial on common core, but we believe in high standards as we look at what we do. I stand with the Business Roundtable on that activity. Community colleges. If i go to a state and a governor can describe how many welders they prepare every year, thats a good thing. That means you can step into a Manufacturing Base that is incredibly ready and important. From thee retiring, standpoint of the oil and gas industry and other industries. You have a real vacuum. Community colleges do that. We partner with local Community Colleges that are training people during the day. For four hoursol and ge for four hours. Sayou as a governor can this is my Community College plan, that is huge. A dream of people that are going to probably find jobs in the 21st century, it will be engineers and welders. Engineers are incredibly important trade they create jobs important. They create jobs. A Good University is incredibly investable. This is where we like investing. When i go back to the things i talked about on the age of gas, advanced manufacturing, probably on each one of those things we will partner with three universities each to have multiyear, multimillion Dollar Research and Development Programs that can cre. We are going to talk about native american spirituality, in particular cherokee. There is a forum being provided that was not provided in the old traditional newsroom setting. That is great for people interested in it. I think it should be funded, and it is being funded. It is fabulous that it is being funded. But it is difficult to raise money in this harsh environment. It is wonderful that there are big endowments. There is the ford foundation. Are all these organizations out there becoming absolutely vital, if we want this kind of coverage to continue. There are smaller funders in britain doing the same thing. Many podcasts are done on a shoestring and are not making you rich, but it is rewarding and enriching in other ways. I will do one more. You dont have to answer this. I am wondering if you thought about the question of whether some religions get more better coverage than others. Either religions that get more and better and why . I am talking from a western perspective and my experience in the media here. I think the coverage has changed. It has traditionally been quite reverential toward christianity. In the bbc that i joined, and in this section of the bbc that was the religious department there were a lot of christian devotional programs put out. And even the news, it was, and still to a certain extent is largely about christianity. That reflects the audience in the domestic sphere, and it is still quite a churched audience that listens to the program. I would be constantly pushing the boundaries a little bit, very interested in covering different religions. Islam has got a real beating in the press for a long time. I think and hope that has changed quite a bit, especially. T it. It was interesting after 9 11 to see western governments, such as the British Government, and , the london bombings, the British Government went out looking for the moderate voices of islam. They try to coopt certain groups. That did not go down very well in many muslim communities. And they looked at sufis. They said they are great. And then they thought, they actually have a very traditional view of the koran and womens rights. Interesting process on that continues. Process goinging on that continues. I would like to see fuller coverage that gives all angles of the story. Certainly, islam became the news because of negative news events. It is much harder to get into initiatives happening within islam and between religions that are positive developments. Such as the Common Word Initiative that is happening within islam. Tony blairs foundation is involved in encouraging engagement as well is to look at the role of religion in foreign policy. An area he believes has been under assessed for many years when people look at ideologies and different economic circumstances are not looking at religious causes. An outshoot of the tony blair initiative. Initiatives to bring young people together to talk religion. That is interesting but hard to sell as a new story. 9 11 was the thing which has really given a boost to islam, and the coverage of islam. But the truth of the matter is watching, god which is a bbc domestic religion covers shows in the early 1990s which question different groups among christians, including islamic listeners and viewers, ask questions like, if you want more, what happens when it turns over . It was always islam. That would say we want more. Ignals were well before 9 11. There were some of us reporting on islam before 9 11. I mentioned the resolution and reform series on islam that i was doing. Other people were talking about it, it it was almost like it suddenly caught the news editors at the top unawares. They were playing catchup and unfortunately this happens quite a lot, a reactive environment. I think that is why it is good to have specialists. Theyre less reactive and more proactive. We have time for one more three more. We will start over here to my left. I did research on religion in the context of korea. I found that most of the time, journalists do cover religion in a positive manner. I found that they have kind of expectations of religion, what religion can do for society. Can you tell me one or more experiences when you cover religion in a policy manner. And why did you decide to do that . I didnt set out with an agenda, but there have been tragic stories out of which some very positive messages have come from communities. Christian communities. In a couple of instances i can think of, we had the july 7 bombings in london. Tragic events. The London Underground was bombed and a bus. A young man was killed in the london bus bombing. I approached his mother and as a human being, i felt a little bit reluctant. Here is a woman in full grief for her only son. And yet i had heard that she had a deep christian faith. The catholic cathedral that she attended gave me her number. I asked permission from her to get the number. She gave me the most moving interview that i have ever done in my life. This was within 24 hours with him losing her son. The interview went out on the Morning News Program on bbc radio 4 called today. It is usually a very gladiatorial, presenter versus politician, three minutes of hard fighting over political issues of the day. This one was about eight minutes and really stunned mainstream audience and a lot of editors as she talked in great depth and with huge heart about her son and about the impact of the bombings on her family but about her deep christian faith, how schieffer gave how she forgave the bombers, and this was 24 hours later. How she prayed for the bombers families and it was a really, really moving event that came out of s