I will answer your initial question if i could and i will turn it back to ed. First of all, on speaking to the m. T. I. s at lackland, a lot of people have spoken to them. Ed, of course, the leadership and the team have all talked to them. The individuals that you talked to might not have been there. The number one i took away with the meetings with them is that those people, and the passion they have for this problem they feel the way i do. Thats our air force. Our military ought to be leading this effort. We have a structure, we have the ability to command, control, educate, and oversee, we have the ability to punish. We all the tools in place to be the role models for this. We owe the American People for that. General, please, time has expired. Please finish that answer for the record. Mr. Nugent. Thank you, mr. Chairman. My big concern, having been a sheriff and prosecuted and investigated Sexual Assault cases is the victimization. How do we deal with those victims and in particular, as an organization how does the reporting process go . Sexual assault or Sexual Harassment dont always go handinhand. They are different in certain aspects, but the reporting process. The commander makes the decision on whether it goes to a judicial process or if it doesnt . How do they make that decision . Very often it will be raised by a report to the equal Opportunity Office on base. The office conducts an investigation and there is a process that it goes through and then there is a decision made on what to do. Is there something that you escalate that you deal with this . You make the decision after the promise is completed. It jumps into a process that is uc. You can report dectly to t inspecr general, you can through e chain of command, reporting is pt of we havto get t the mi appcation becse witthey wt toove up to thugh the ranks and ey are aegar would be uagainst versus a fair apication. Ifical for the vtims to without the worr you know, retaliation . Them wita onone briefin whais aed andhator when they gc military training. Milaryfirsen w repeat it again in technica pectations. I it is on the means we try over titakeme, seshldthey havee right way to develop a level of trust. The person that is conveying the information and in the system and how it will react. I think a second important way were addressing this is basic training, is to provide other avenues and more of those other avenues for trainees to report. We have added more Sexual Assault response coordinators who will be out in the community. Weve added more chaplains. Again, someone who we hope they will feel maybe more comfortable talking to until oneonone sessions. More leadership in general, will be part of the equation. Again, none of these are one point solution but part of a total package that we feel it has in our right direction. Do your victims work hand inhand to try to heaven the victims work with the victims the job is to make the pros is as simple and painless as possible. Follow include up through courtmartial activity so they are removed from the lack of understanding and the poor communication which make theirs situation worse. Does their Mental Health gentlemans time has expired. Thank you, mr. Chairman and thank you for your participation. Ive a letter dated the 16th to general rice from me they would like to submit. No objection. What year was that . Last year. We all had a meeting about this document. We talked about 17,000 hours, we talked about 32 staff. General rice referenced 7,700 interviewed and not one of the victim, not one of the 50plus victims at lackland was interviewed. 46 recommendations came out. But how can those recommendations be complete without first having talked to at least some of the victims . Now, the letter i sent to general rice said those victims were interviewed. I have yet to get a response from general rice. I dont think it can be complete. Let me go on. The trainees we met with, we had lunch with them. They were 17, 18, 19 years of age. They were young, naive, and earnest. I thought to myself these are the age of my daughter. All these trainees are the ages of my daughter. My daughter would no more have the ability to say no to a military trainee instructor, who you are taught is the law. You do everything that Training Instructor tells you. There has been a lot of talk here today about all the things that are happening. What happened was the military Training Instructors instructed these trainees to go to the supply closets and the laundry room where they were Sexual Assaulted and raped. We had two instructors who admitted they had sex with 10 of their trainees, each. These instructors were married. Do you agree or not agree that con consent should not be part of this quotient. General rice said some of these were willingly engaged in sex with their m. T. I. s. As i understand it, the m. T. I. Should never be aloe with a trainee in a room. Never alone. So, can a trainee willingly have sex with her instructor . Your answer. I would never be able to look you in the eye and tell you that no trainee of any age, we have trainees that are 32, 34 years old that go there the program, would be offer consent. Let me tell you what i do agree with. An individual who is serving as a military Training Instructor who has a relationship like this with a trainee has no room now air force. Im introducing a bill today that will basically say no longer can a consensual relationship between a trainee and instructor used as a defense. Would you support that . I would have to ask the legal on the technicalities of that legislation. I would support you in an effort to make sure someone who that is kind of relationship in a training program, it is unacceptable. That they are kicked out of the military . Out of the military. A military expert professor hagel from yale said that the ucmj is something that would be recognized and it is similar to what is going on in the u. K. The United Kingdom had a scandal like this in 2006. They created a separate unit. A separate unit that was staffed with experts in investigations and prosecutions within the military to handle these cases. So that the decision was not being made by the unit commander. That was in 2006. In 2007, they found that good order and discipline stayed in tact, in fact, the unit commanders were relieved not having to handle these cases anymore. I would like to encourage you to speak with your counterparts in the u. K. To see how their system works and if we would be better served to move into a system like that. I yield back. Im encouraged to hear you say theres a Training Session for the new recruits before they actually go to the m. T. Think is very helpful. How do we get the recruits to fully understand or believe that reporting bad behavior will be supported by leadership and will not harm them . They can develop that trust and know that is the right thing to do and have more conversation in their reporting and what might your suggestions be on that . Very challenging. Ive been through basic military training as well at the air force academy we do the same thing. Ive been in that position and understand fully what these trainees think about this environment. And how challenging it would be, you know, looking back at my time and my experience to talk about things like this. Sometimes it is very challenging. So as much as we want people to do certain things, i think we have to deal with the reality of the environment they are in and try to think about it from their perspective. Part of this has to do with getting more feedback from trainees and looking at those barriers. I think the most important element or decision we can make in this regard has to do with trust. At the end of the day, if people dont trust either a person or institution there isnt anything we can do in terms of train ling that is going to have them take that decision as what they perceive as perm risk. As we train our instructors how we relate to the trainees. How we train other people within this environment to relate to trainees, who we try to ensure that they have that level of trust and confidence within the system is part of the work we are undertaking. I dont have the answer today but i know that is a place ive got to get better at if im going to be more successful in the future. I think we can do a lot better but im not ready to tell you that ive figured it out. Mr. Johnson. Thank you, mr. Chairman. A person who is training under a trainer and has a consensual, some might say sexual relationship or sexual intercourse with the boss. The boss might thing it is consensual but what is going on in the mind of the trainee is i need to do this in other words to get through training successfully. It is a duress it is a mentaltype of situation. It might not be forcible physically but forcibly mentally. That is why if there isnt one now, there should be a crime that makes it a per se violation to have sexual intercourse be it consensual or not between an instructor or trainee. I think that is probably something that mrs. Tsongas has dealt with in her bill, which i fully support. Now, a different situation between say, a former trainer or a trainer who formally trained someone who has made it through training and now that person is out of the dominion and control of the trainer, then there could be a consensual relationship that does not equate to rape. So im not saying it at all times noncriminal. But lets just say that former trainer and a former trainee, a former trainer and a person that he trained he or she trained at a time previously, they are in a sexual relationship. But then the woman or the man the victim might say no, i dont want to do this today. Then it is forced on them. Ok, so that is a classic rape allegation. Classic allegation of rape or someone just took authority and imposed himself on a weaker individual physically. Ive looked at the guidelines, the list of the recommendations and i see nothing about training military police in the gathering of physical evidence that would support the accused excuse me, support the accuser in making a allegation of an enforceable rape. You only have ones word against the other. You have no other witnesses so you have to prove the case, prove it by physical evidence, a rape kit is what it is generally called. What is it that we dont have we dont make provisions for these types of cases. I think it is pretty typical in addition to the other Sexual Assault cases, harassment, nonphysical activities. Why is it were not dealing with this issue of rape and forcible sodomy and things like that in terms of Police Investigation and prosecuting ability to prosecute effectively . Special trained victims investigators to this point. We just started a new class model on the armys c. I. D. Class that was advised by outside experts to focus on that type of investigation. That first class just completed this week. We had outside experts to give us feedback that was objective. We will run classes through that course routinely. We sent 50 agents through the armys c. I. D. Course before starting this one. We will further train our investigators to better investigate these actions. Part of the reason we have trouble with people starting with prosecutions because the way they are handled it is so critical for them to stay with their commitment in identifying and prosecuting an assailant. Januarys time has expired. \[inaudible] of those 17 of those women that reported the incident. My question is, i apologize, this im brandnew. This is my first hearing. I dont have the spence experience of those on the committee. Imm in the military and Sexual Assaulted how do i report that . Is there a 911 in the military . What generates the report . Theres a hot line in the military. You can tell someone in your chain of the command. You can go to the security forces, going to to the base hospital or clinic and ask for help there. Anywhere in that network is connected to the reporting mechanism that starts the activity moving forward. The problem is not that they dont know where to talk to, it is they dont feel comfortable reporting. Sometimes they are concerned about getting in trouble or someone Holding Accountable for reporting. Some are concerned about their family and friends finding out or their spouse finding out. Some of them are embarrassed and some feel guilty about the incident. All of these things come together where people dont feel comfortable stepping forward. It is something we have to work constantly. Congresswoman. N easy answer, do we have in the military, the there something specific for this . This is crime. Do we have a whistle blower protection in the military . Am i protected and know as a female, if im a victim of a crime that i know im protected and im not going am i protected if i go and say im a victim of a crime, do we have a whistle blower protection . Maybe. There is no hard, firm law that says youre protected physical you come forward and report something and everyone is going to make sure that you are not going suffer any consequence for the action you took. I think in the past, there were many more accidents that people were held accountable for an event where they became a victim. None of the victims have been held accountable, made to feel like they are guilty of anything. Thats the way it has to be going forward. We have a Sexual Assault response coordinator in every situation. They are trained on thousand handle these situations. As soon as we find out we have a victim, the victim is contacted and all the things we can help provide are available to them, not just Law Enforcement or investigative stuff. That is the last thing we want to worry about at the first contact. It is the personal care, the health care, the exam that is required. I appreciate that. When i call and report the accident. Am i matched with is it gender to gender reports . Am i reporting to a woman. No, that is not the case everywhere. What is the ratio . I just dont know but what is the ratio of basic military instructors . Military a basic instructor how many men versus womenwise . About 25 . Air force wise it is about 19 women. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. General rice, would you agree with me that the command chiefs with the commander set the command climate of a unit . I think command chiefs are an important part of that but i feel it is fundamentally the commanders responsibility. And the command chief is the interface between enlisted foxes, the n. C. O. s and the commander . Certainly yes. Between the commander and the airman within the unit. General rice, i would like to know how many female command chiefs do you have at Lackland Air Force base and how many do you have in the recruiting command . I cant answer. I would like to take that for the record, please. General rice, can you tell me what the accessibility that a female trainee has to reaching out to a female command chief . No, i cant give you an exact answer to that question. I do i would answer it this way. We have a number of females who are in the instructor or staff or supervisory or command positions. We are moving to a place where we have more females in those positions. Basedt select commanders on they gender. I dont select command chiefs based on their gender. I do believe at the instructor level that the team that is responsible for a flight of 50 trainees should be include one female but beyond that we have not made another determination to make assignments of leadership positions based on gender. Have you in any way, germ rice, empowered your command chiefs to deal with this problem that seems to be happening or seems to have been happening . Have you empowered your command chiefs to enact with this and if so, how . No. At my level i have not taken any direct action to specifically empower command chiefs other than making it mandatory that the rank of the command chief is no longer a Senior Master sergeant but a chief Master Sergeant. I believe you understand, based on you background the significance of that. I have to depend on a commander to use the resources that i have provided to him or her to maintain a proper command environment. It is up to that commander to use those resources whether it is a first sergeant, a command chief, a supervisor or anybody else, to use that combination of resources in a unique way because every commander is different. So they can use the resources to maintain a good environment. I think it is problematic if i dictate how they put that team of people together. I would agree with you. And power the chief master sgt to enable the commander, ncos understand the commanders intent. I will yield the balance. Dr. Heck. We have heard a lot of discussion about deployment and what is being done to encourage individual victims to report without fear of retribution. General rice, you talked about the train that goes on to impart the knowledge of how to report and what report. I can tell you as a military commander, and a welltrained programs. The problem is whether it is eo or preventing Sexual Harassment, it seems to be power plants for people to glaze over. How do you judge the effectiveness of those Training Programs that are supposed be providing those initial Entry Service members were those that are only the front lines cleared through their annual recurrent trainees to make sure that they understand. I am an army guy. The train to cross the services is not resonating. These incidents continue despite this ongoing initial entry and recurring train. How do we assess the Training Programs that we have to try to stem the tide of these Sexual Assaults and associated sexual incidents . We add more. All of the services do this. Having an impact . Expand those and get rid of the rest and wasting peoples time that could be better spent in a different way tackling this problem. We have talked to experts advising us on this topic. One thing they told me that got my attention because im more interested in seeing if it works quickly continue if it doesnt, dump and try something else. He said you have to be more careful because some of those you wont know the impact until you give them time to work and it takes a while. The tricky parts are which ones can we stick with and the ones we stick with, we have to refresh and modernize and applicable workforce and sce