Garrett graff, author and historian, to talk about the special counsel Robert Mueller. Why dont you start. Who is Robert Mueller . Guest he is a lifelong career prosecutor, mostly here in washington and the Justice Department. He spent most of his career working his way up through various u. S. Attorneys office, head of the Criminal Division for the u. S. Department of justice under george h. W. Bush, and then was Deputy Attorney general under george w. Bush before becoming fbi director. As has been told over the last couple days, he was the longestserving fbi director since J Edgar Hoover himself. The first since hoover to complete the 10 year term of an fbi director, and then he was so popular and so respected that he was extended for an additional two years by president obama and a bipartisan act of congress. Host what made him so popular and respected . Guest he is a ramrod straight , former marine straight shooter. In a city that seems like it gets more partisan and more politicized with every passing year, he is completely apolitical, completely nonpartisan, and very well respected on both sides of the aisle. Host what was he known for doing at the fbi, in terms of the structure of the organization and its accomplishments over those 12 years . Guest one of the most important moments of his career in tracing how he involved his leadership style, was he started at the fbi as director on september 4, a week before 9 11. On the morning of tuesday, september 11, he was at the hoover building, seated in his first briefing on al qaeda when the twin towers were struck. So we spent the years after that leading the fbi through a wrenching. Of change as it evolved from what had been a relatively traditional domestic Law Enforcement agency largely focused on criminal threats, similar in many ways to the organization J Edgar Hoover had built, and transforming it into a Global Intelligence agency, largely focused around counterterrorism. And then towards the end of his tenure at the fbi, really beginning to address Cyber Threats as well, sort of the transnational nature of global threats. Host what had he been doing between the time he left the fbi and the time he got this job as special counsel . Guest he left the fbi at the end of his 12 year term in september 2013, and went to a big law firm here in washington, and has been ever since basically the person that a company or organization calls when they have really badly screwed up and need someone beyond reproach to come in and investigate their behavior and make recommendations for the future. Probably most notably, he led the investigation for the nfl into their handling of the ray rice Domestic Violence incident, which you might remember from 2014. His report, when it came out in early 2015, is in some ways the best analog for what you might see in the work he will be doing as special counsel just an incredibly thorough, stunningly thorough investigation built from scratch. When you read his report about that incident, five pages of the report deal with just how the nfl headquarters receives mail and signs for packages. I think in the course of this, bob mueller figured out things about the nfl mailroom that the nfl mailroom staff dont know. Host lets put the phone numbers on the bottom of the screen for our guest area Garrett Graff educated at harvard, he has worked for a number of publications, including politico, washingtonian magazine, and read a book about the fbi in 2012 that traces the modern history of the fbi. We will take calls from democrats, republicans and independents over the next 40 minute period or so, for our guest. Here is something you wrote in politico a short while ago about Robert Mueller and james comey. It write donald trump, turns out, has stumbled into taking on two experienced washington players on their home turf and the skirmishes that will play on capitol hill hearings with comey even as mueller slogs along with what is likely to be a quiet, tenacious, and by the book investigation into the heart of the Trump Campaigns religion with russia. Tell us more. Guest part of whats going to be interesting to watch as this unfolds is where this investigation goes from now is very much on territory familiar to Robert Mueller and jim comey. That this is what they have done their entire careers. They are both federal prosecutors by trade, very used to leading these big, complicated, sprawling investigations, and part of what makes these special investigations and special counsels and a special prosecutors complicated is as much of their investigation often ends up being the coverup as the original crime, if there is a crime at the core of this, which we dont even necessarily know that right now. When you look back at the history of these investigations, the ken starr investigation the 1990s for instance, primarily ended up focusing on monica lewinsky. The Valerie Plame leak investigation of the bush administration, which was a case that jim comey, when he was Deputy Attorney general, appointed his colleague Patrick Fitzgerald to head that investigation. That ended up focusing on scooter libby, Vice President cheneys top aide. Not because he was the original leaker, but because his because of his obstruction of the underlying investigation. I think part of this challenge with this administration is they need to be worried not just about what happened in the past, but the actions that they have taken and will take over the course of this investigation. Host before we get to calls for our guest, what do you make of what the president tweeted recently . Witchhunte greatest of a politician in american history. He also reportedly told russian officials that comey is a nut job. How might Robert Mueller view this, and does it matter to his work . Guest i dont think it fundamentally matters to his work. In washington, there are many different opinions of jim comey, but i dont think anyone would actually call him a nut job or anything close to it. These are incredibly serious, sober minded people who have dedicated their lives to public service, and i think the president is making his own job harder with his reactions, as he tries to politicize a lot of this. Host lets get to calls, again, trying to learn as much as we can about special counsel Robert Mueller in this segment. Jack is up first from providence, rhode island. Democratic caller for Garrett Graff. Caller good morning, gentlemen. The reason why i called is i am one of those democrats from the old days, a conservative democrat. The Democratic Party today has been taken over by a group of International Financial elites, it is no longer a party of the working man, even know im an engineer by background. Quote this is a quote you find me the man, i will find you the crime. The old hardline soviet communist, where you have to give hitlers credit, he tried to destroy. Now, with the power of mueller, ok, hes a dramatic brother, he can go anywhere he wants as this investigation goes forward, and this is going to take time. I think multiple things will occur. Probably crimes will be found in the trump area. If you dig into it, im sure the Obama Administration committed many crimes in the areas of unmasking. He has Unlimited Power right now , and if this is done correctly, i really believe donald trump because one thing about him, he is overall pretty honest when he talks. I dont think he himself colluded with the russians. He wants to help the United States. He dont need that job, he dont need to be president. Hes not megarich like charles koch or the saudis, they are the richest of them all. But that point im making is i think the deep state hates his guts and overall, the election process they all thought Hillary Clinton was going to win , and this was a joke through the whole process. Host jack, thanks for calling. Any thoughts . Guest i think the caller is correct that this has the potential to be a huge and sprawling investigation, but i dont think thats actually what we are likely to see from bob mueller. He is someone who traditionally has, as he always likes to say, stay in his lane. He keeps things narrow, tightly focused. Part of his prosecutor nature, but it is also his understanding of institutional roles. I think you look back at the nfl ray rice investigation, he kept that very tightly focused on just the handling of the ray rice videotape and did not get into this much broader question of the nfl and its relationship with Domestic Violence and other cases. I think that is what we are going to most likely see from Robert Mueller, unless he stumbles upon some grand conspiracy, is a very tightly focused investigation into the Trump Campaign and its relationship with russia. Host with that being said, back to your piece in politico, the friday cover a shot of mr. Comey and mr. Mueller. What donald trump needs to know about bob mueller and jim comey. The subhead says the two men who could bring down the president have been preparing their entire lives for this moment. Guest this is, as i said, what they do. They have worked as federal prosecutors, as federal investigators, the head of the most prestigious federal lawenforcement agency in the United States for almost their entire careers. This is territory that is very familiar to them and very unfamiliar to donald trump and many of the people around him , who do not have much history with the way that these scandals can unfold in washington. I will say i think one of the most interesting things in this is that because of the deep respect and reputation that bob mueller has in washington, the good news for President Trump is if there is no there there, if this is all a strange case of odd coincidences and misunderstandings, bob mueller might be the only person in america who could come out, declare donald trump and his associates innocent, and be believed by both parties. Host robert in manchester, maryland, republican caller. Good morning. Caller good morning. Listening to you speak, its sounds like you are very antitrump. With the nfl investigation, you are also making it sound like if theres a crime committed by the Democratic Party, he will not venture in that direction to prosecute or suggest prosecution. Also, i see you failed to mention that mueller and comey were best of friends at one time, comey worked underneath mueller in an investigation. Im curious why you failed to mention how tightly they are in Something Like this. Host three separate points there, but what has our guest said that is antitrump in your view . Caller he keeps saying that President Trump is an outsider and hes not familiar with everything, and comey and mueller are very familiar with everything going on. I think President Trump is playing everyone for a fool. He is always four or five steps ahead of everyone. Thats why hes where hes at, considering the election process. Host thank you, robert. Guest just to be clear, i am only really talking about the extent of this particular investigation. I think a federal investigation is a beast unto its own, and it has a rhythm of its own, it has procedures and protocols and traditions of its own, and thats where Robert Mueller and jim comey have a much deeper understanding of how Something Like this is going to unfold. But to the callers point about the relationship between comey and bob mueller, hes absolutely right, these are two men who have worked very closely together at the highest levels of the Justice Department. They worked together both before 9 11, and then their relationship and partnership was really forged in the crucible of the post9 11 Justice Department , during this incredibly intense period as the country was responding to 9 11 and trying to reorient itself to fight al qaeda. Bob mueller was fbi director and jim comey was Deputy Attorney general, technically bob muellers boss at that point. They worked very closely together for a number of years, on a daily basis, working to combat terrorism. Particularly we might talk about this more later in the hour if a caller brings it up during the 2004 incident known as the hospital visit, when jim comey and bob mueller led a very highstakes showdown with the Bush White House and Vice President cheneys office over guest president cheneys office over the reauthorization of an nsa terrorist surveillance wind,m codenamed stellar and jim comey in the Justice Department had concluded that the program was actually unconstitutional and illegal. It should be continued and and needed changes to be made in order for it to be continued. And Vice President cheneys office argued vociferously that it not be changed and reauthorized and this concluded in march 2004 with this dramatic incident at the hospital bedside at George WashingtonUniversity Hospital here in washington with john ashcroft, who was hospitalized at the time with gallbladder issues, when the white house chief of staff and the white house general counsel or white House Counsel showed up at the hospital bed at about 7 00 p. M. In the evening to try to get john an ashcroft, who had technically given up the attorney generals authority to jim comey at jeopardy while he was in the program and jim comey and bob mueller intervened and really threatened to resign if this program wasnt fundamentally reworked and changed. And ultimately, president bush blinked and the changes got made to it. Host more of the background of Robert Mueller, the special counsel. Tim of alexandria, virginia just , outside of d. C. , you are on with Garrett Graff. Good morning. Caller can you hear me . I have a couple of points. I heard that the Mueller Investigation might overtake [indiscernible] also that it could take years, and there is no power to indict. Having this, it undermines the regular order of both the house and senate. What do you think . Guest you are right that you hit on the two Biggest Challenges the Robert Mueller that Robert Mueller faces as he comes into this new role. The first is the extent to which is investigation will interact with and overlap with the preexisting investigations by the Justice Department and the fbi, and by the house and senate. Typically in instances like this, what we have seen is that capitol hill will take a step back when there is an active federal investigation, at least one that they have confidence in. But as you say, the second challenge is the timing. You know federal investigations , are not fast. And under the rules and regulations of a special counsel, bob mueller has 60 days to even just come up with a budget, let alone begin to actually put together an investigation, set up office space, and that type of thing. So we are definitely looking at something that is more the timeframe of several months or perhaps even several years. And that is not necessarily a typical in a federal investigation. Fbi investigations typically run months or years, but that is going to be a political challenge here in washington, both for capitol hill and for the white house as this investigation is toiling away, day after day. Host lets hear little bit from Robert Mueller in his own words,. This takes us back to july, 2008, the 100th Anniversary Commemoration of the fbi. So the director of the time was Robert Mueller. He spoke about the importance of the rule of law among fbi agents and its motto of fidelity, bravery, and integrity. Its about a minute and a half. Heres a look. [video clip] Robert Mueller integrity is in some ways the most important of the three words that make up our motto. Integrity is the fire by which fidelity and bravery are tested. Fidelity, bravery, and integrity set the expectations for behavior, they set the standard for our work. And more than just a motto, for the men and women of the fbi, fidelity, bravery, and integrity is a way of life. And it has always been so. It has been said of fbi employees that they stand on the shoulders of their predecessors, and indeed, we do. And while it is a type of change time of change in the bureau, our values will never change. It is not enough to stop the terrorists, we must stop him while maintaining his civil liberties. Its not enough to catch him, we to catch the criminal. We must catch him while respecting his civil rights. It is not enough to prevent Foreign Countries from stealing o