Transcripts For CSPAN Washington Journal 20161204 : comparem

manufacturing jobs and america's middle class. of our question is how can we restore those manufacturing jobs. open.one lines are if you work in the manufacturing .ector you can also send us a tweet. the conversation is already underway at facebook. we will hear from donald trump in just a moment. let's begin with the front-page story of the new york times a different issue. phones donald trump's call with the president of taiwan. is saying over the past two decades, taiwan has split from its position. that is from the front page of the new york times this morning. we want to focus on trade and jobs. donald trump in indianapolis last thursday. they are not going to leave the united states anymore without consequences. it's not going to happen. it's not going to happen. we are losing so much. one of the things we're doing to keep them is lowering our hopefullyax from 35% down to 15%, which would take us from the highest taxed nation in the world. it's terrible for business. to one of the lower. one of the other things we are doing is regulations. i thought taxes would be number one and regulations -- these great leaders of industry and even small business people who are just being crushed, if they had a choice between lower taxes and a massive cutting of regulations, they would take the regulations. since about six years ago, 260 new federal regulations have passed. plant.ct this none of them probably amount to anything in terms of safety or the things you have regulations for. he announced the return of those manufacturing jobs to that air-conditioning plant that opera -- operates. 700 jobs will go to mexico. he has started a victory tour. both of those events are available on our website. the best way to bring it manufacturing jobs back to the united states. our phone lines are open. -- live the in the eastern time zone. i want to share with you a story from the financial times that gets to the heart of this issue. a focal point of the trump onpaign, this could be based a faulty premise. the u.s. trade policy and trade deficit with mexico and canada and unfair behavior are to blame for the deindustrialization. lose 5.6 million jobs between 2000 and 2010. 85% of these jobs are inributable to changes automation rather than international trade. been replaceds with robots. trump'sng to donald comments in indianapolis, josh earnest last thursday. based on what we know now, it appears that several hundred or even 1000 jobs will not be moved overseas unless the plants have changed. that is good news. it's an announcement we would welcome. yesterday, mr. 804p would have to make more announcements like that to of jobs intandard the manufacturing sector that were created in this country under president obama's watch. this is good news. president has a high bar to meet when it comes to putting in place to kind of economic policies that are going to benefit american workers. let me give you an example, the overtime rule. it was scheduled to go into effect today. it was a rolling president announced earlier this year. every weekline is there are millions of middle-class americans who work more than 40 hours a week that don't see any pay for their extra work. there are 87,000 workers in indiana. host: let me show you this chart. let me give you a sense of the job growth during the obama white house. a november jobs report shows challenges remain for those manufacturers. donald trump's land for infrastructure includes the problem -- following. spent that will be 137 billion dollars in income tax credits. include new manufacturing jobs? is out ofcome balance revenue loss. more details are available online at bloomberg.com. in newegin with brett york. caller: thanks for taking my call. haseems like donald trump adopted pet buchanan's economic policies when it comes to trade. genius, but when it comes to trade its ridiculous. it's just like buchanan is him. trump is saying the same thing, terrace on imported automobiles. alexis,a 35% tariff on maybe 70 wants to pay $10,000 more perhaps. maybe you start buying cadillacs. i think it's totally wasteful. host: i want to go back to the financial times story. there is an interesting statistic. anelder could earn $25 hour, a robot is only about eight dollars in operating costs. in 15 years, that gap will widen more. this process is irreversible as we move from tech knowledge he to human labor. is it trade? is it technology? jobso you bring back those that were the centerpiece of the middle class. brad is joining us from michigan. good morning. said aboutt he just obama setting a high bar is laughable. there are no more tire builders. skilled trade, i don't know about that. talking they should go back to what they did in the 50's. you took it in high school and moved into a trade area -- trade. i think technology will replace some things. it didn't do that. i don't think it ever will. you always have to have manual skills. we will see how it turns out. i think donald trump do a good job. host: thank you very much for the call. npr is talking about those carrier jobs. jobs inwill keep 1000 the u.s., the donald trump faces a tougher problem. this is a tiny symbolic gesture. .01% ofs is less than manufacturing jobs in the united states. that is again from npr. larry is joining us from minnesota. good morning to you. caller: good morning. i think i have the answer to this problem. it's quite simple. deport the people that are to the the jobs overseas same place they send the jobs. let them live there. host: let's go to steve in phoenix. caller: good morning and thank you for c-span. i believe that they could bring back manufacturing jobs by making the tax codes generous. the world because businessman have no intention of giving you a raise. that's not how the system works. the system works to maximize profit. it's not going to work by paying people more. i don't see the wealthy bringing jobs back to america unless it benefits them and i don't think it's going to benefit them. thanks very much for the call. this is the cover story from time magazine. funeral services are taking place in cuba. fidel." ine is "after let's go to florida. caller: good morning. dealsll of these trade were made, the american public was led to believe these were going to be minimum wage call center jobs and that's all that was going to be shipped overseas. now we're finding some of the best jobs have been sent overseas. now we've got to unravel this. people are looking for ways to criticize donald trump. the american rust belt was traded for foreign policy. that's what the whole thing was about. i am saying republicans and democrats both wanted to trade all of these jobs so they could say look at our great relations with all of these countries. give awayad to do was the fabric of the united states. i say that donald trump has a great egg problem on his hand -- big problem on his hands. , i people who criticize him say you are full of bull. he is going to try to correct it. just leave him alone. host: we have tweeted i will link to the story from the financial times. we are asking how the u.s. can bring back those manufacturing jobs. this is focusing on the battle over immigration. that's one of the best issues to be in 2017. politico is reporting on donald trump's complicated tax ventures and how his businesses could to divest decision from the trump corporation. deborah is join us from florida. welcome to the program. i want to say that i've been a teacher for a long time. over 30 years in four different states. i was born in michigan. i've seen a lot of things with my father working, not directly working in the car business but plating.riginally in he had to switch to powder coating because the cars changed. he worked in that for a number of years. i understand. i was not a donald trump person because of being a teacher in having all types of students. i think we are causing problems and division in a lot of areas and i don't take that's the answer in this country. i was just at a junior achievement meeting with high school kids. it was on careers. this, what's the percentage of growth in those careers in -- careers. person, you have to decide what's going to be needed. we have to get parents in these jobs that are going to be around for a long time to get their kids to take up jobs and get educated in areas whether it's college or skills or whatever so that they can come out with things that are needed for the future. a lot of these jobs aren't coming back. kids andto get your push for the future. we can't go back. i do want to go back to the 50's and 60's. -- don't want to go back to the 50's and 60's. the democrats actually saved the car business. shame on them for that. it's trumps rhetoric. i don't have anything against him personally. when you say the things against it's and against people, not going to help in this country. we are going to have all kinds of protests. it's going to happen on campuses at schools and create a dangerous environment for our children. i think we need to make education the focus. host: that was deborah in sarasota. the new york times magazine is focusing on the u.s. and british relationship. are sunday roundtable will be looking at u.s. and european relations. check.org is looking at the president on manufacturing jobs. manufacturing employment was 12 million in 2016. that is down just over 300,000 from 2009 when barack obama took over. more details on the president record in manufacturing jobs. a lot of you are sharing your tweets. let me show you some of them. congress and bad heart right is talking about manufacturing jobs. this is what he had to say. >> democrats are in favor of infrastructure investment. american society of civil engineers rating american infrastructure at a d+. democrats more than anybody understand the importance of investing in our infrastructure, our roads, bridges, water systems, electrical grids. if we had taken a responsible approach to these things, something like flint michigan never would've happened. you have to be grown up. you have to spend money to take care of what we have inherited as an american infrastructure. likeve to spend something $3.6 trillion by 2020 to upgrade our infrastructure. just theto jobs, not ones that create the improvement but the ones that flow from it or it up when american businesses more competitive. china is upgrading its infrastructure and we have to compete with china. this is a democratic principle that esther trump is espousing. -- mr. trump is espousing. -- not going to get in a way the way of that. from the sunday review section of the new york times, what the albright -- alt right really means. employers may hire whomever and wherever they want how muchity no matter one thinks should be otherwise. of chasing after businesses that already left, we could find new entrepreneurs who will lead to new and you factoring. the atlantic is talking about manufacturing jobs. revivingsibility of american manufacturing. both of them are on c-span radio. sirius xmam is on every sunday morning. good sunday afternoon in england. good morning. the best way to bring back american jobs is to remove the legal regulations that tie andingenuity into words then the foreigners take our tech knowledge he without the lawyer and without the legal regulations and they put themselves in a position where we cannot compete with them. good example is the nuclear power energy. had 435 reactors. we are talking about 5 million jobs. now, we built 104 of these reactors. we are closing them down. the south koreans are building our tech knowledge he. , i had to work in a nuclear power plant over there. that is our westinghouse design. that used to be number one in america. this is huge jobs. the bottom line is it's all about regulations. the lawyers are in industry. we need lawyers, but we don't need to tie our tech knowledge he into the legal words that they can find our ability and our companies to be able to compete against our own technology in the world. thank you for adding your voice to the conversation. thate now maintain robots replace them. what is the best way to bring back or develop manufacturing jobs in the united states. the outlook section of the washington post with the announcement of general mattis to be the defense secretary. 538 is made -- weighing in. manufacturing jobs are never coming back. stop talking about these manufacturing jobs. talk a lot less about manufacturing area it's undecidable. here is the problem. whether a not those jobs could have been saved in fate are not coming back here in -- back. jerry in north carolina is next. have you ever thought of doing anything else? life, my mom worked at the tire place for 44 years. left, welaces ever weren't going to have jobs. pray people would smoke we knew that cigarettes were killing people and one day they might leave. they started this thing called the research triangle. they built a place for 500 people to live. northernted with telecom and then quintiles and then ibm. cigaretteow where the factories are at now. day, our unemployment is 4.1%. the triangle is 4.2. why don't you try something like that? going to school or doing something that you used to do. it's about the future. they wanted me to go to duke. try something else. host: thank you very much for the call. steve has this point. this is one chart looking at the rise of retail positions. this is from the bureau of labor statistics. that's part of the story we showed you just a moment ago from 538 area -- 538. let's go to ted from illinois. i agree with that last comment. it's got to cost less. it's got to be a joint venture between the employee and the employer. getting regulations off the employers. years, i've been in manufacturing. i've seen it, local business. it's cheaper to have someone else do it. cheaper as far as labor to make this product. we will have it done here or there. done in thehat united states of america. usa.i grew up, made in the now everything, made in china. the other way. we need to bring that back. it's going to take time. there has to be a change. economy,f our global we've given all types of work. robots can't do everything. host: donald trump was tweeting out over the weekend over headline in the york times. the story continues to get a lot of attention. the follow-up to an earlier tweet from a fewer. stopast donald trump can the bleeding from bad trade deals and maybe reverse it. go to school. jobs.obs -- create good morning. i am reminding the american is donald trump going to bring those back? what about you? thank you. the: earlier, the had of american manufacturing alliance was here. here is a portion of our conversation this past week. >> it is true that we lag far behind european countries in particular in terms of industrial apprenticeships. they have virtually disappeared. the obama has tried to do some of that. they can be a valuable tool. last two years of high educationu get public but you also receive some vocational education to lead you into that apprenticeship environment and you can earn while you are learning on the job. this goes back to shareholder value. coststreet views this as a rather than as an asset for a company. this cost-cutting phenomenon that we've seen as a banking, investment companies don't want to make these investments. they can receive some inducements from the federal government. until we change that culture, it's going to be harder for it to take place. a little north of 300,000 job openings in manufacturing. that's pretty normal in a healthy economy. some employers to say some of the jobs are hard to fill. it's hard to find qualified candidate's. one of the challenges is at some manufacturing is returning to the industrial midwest, a lot of young people have left and moved on. the labor pool isn't as great for them. that was the head of the manufacturing alliance. let's go back to your phone calls. what do you do in the manufacturing sector? caller: i worked for general motors. -- 2008. in 2008 area my biggest problem is we didn't buy american. we all took pay cuts. now we've got to watch the federal workers get it the pennsylvania democrat, what happened to that stimulus money? there are shovel ready jobs. florida, yourom wonder why our schools are empty. thank you. host: we will go to stephen maryland. what is the best way to bring back some of those jobs? caller: i am trying to look at this in a holistic approach. the best method to bring our jobs back, i will leave that to the business people. the way we should do this, we should bring manufacturing back to the cities. with poverty in the cities and jobs will help. i live close to baltimore. i would build a regional vocational school right in the heart of west baltimore. electricians, your plumbers, the people that work manufacturing jobs. i'm not just singling out the black community. this would be a key program. i voted for trump. i am a next democrat. we need to reach out to these communities and end the cycle of poverty. that's my best way how i would look at this holistic league. host: this is from another viewer. no government contracts for companies who move to other countries. we have another 15 minutes. i want to show you a picture from kellyanne conway. she is joined by donald trump. heroess the villains and villains. ta president-elect attended a major donors home. by one of was hosted his biggest donors. guards were dressed as a biker gang. trump gave reporters who were not allowed inside a thumbs-up for photos. posed he briefly spoke at the party. under twofor just hours. byt photo was tweeted out kellyanne conway. morning in texas. caller: good morning and thanks for c-span. is chinaem that i have , everything that we buy says made in china. we have become a service economy. we can't worry how china is doing anymore. we have to worry about our economy. it costs more, it will be worth it. think donald trump wants to do that. democrat and ig voted for donald trump. i think he is going to try his best to make america first and not worry about china and other countries. i thank you for your time. host: the washington post with bernie sanders responding to donald trump. the details are online. looking at a renaissance in production, not jobs. manufacturing production has increased in out put even though jobs have staggered. this is in large part to tech knowledge he. at the 75tha look anniversary of the day that lived in infamy. interview begins at noon eastern. you can watch it on our website www.c-span.org. anotheris reflecting on -- number of authors. let's go to south carolina. caller: i used to be in textiles. i don't think the jobs are coming back. that's not going to happen. that's just a fantasy. you might as well accepted. the country has been sleeping for 50 years. leadership is not made wise decisions. of 4.2%le thing unemployment is a figure that is not reality. many people per month are hitting social security and medicare? you've got 300,000 people retiring. that is not sustainable. what is the solution? i don't want to say it. thing, theible internet is here to stay. if you tear down the internet see total chaos and globalization has occurred. we will find out. i hope it's going to be a nice solution. host: let's go to ohio. northeastern part of the state. i had a fabrication shop for years. i did a lot of support for bigger businesses. that's all going downhill. they can even sell their equipment now. there are no more businesses that want to use that stuff area -- stuff. the work is gone. i grew up and i went to a trade school. i went to school after that. i went for machine and welding. trump goes after all of these trade unions. if you are a journeyman making good wages, he's not going to allow that. he's a builder. states,e right to work you get an education in some of the stuff. you're going to be working for a lot less. this is what i worry about. host: we've got two more calls. good morning. caller: i will make some comments in reference to these comments being made about jobs. our education system was sold a bill of goods in the early 70's. they said everybody should go to college. higher education was the deal. they come out of college deep in debt. the can't find a field in -- job in the field they studied. we let our manufacturing jobs go. i worked in manufacturing for many years. we allowed the labor unions to keep increasing labor costs in this country. then we wondered why they left. labor costs are the highest controllable costs that you have. it, go back to manufacturing at a cost that is comparable to what is paying. host: we also have on our , a lot of you been watching with great interest. this is a live pool feed of the lobby of trump tower new york area there are meetings scheduled. you can do so again this week's donald trump continues to round out his cabinet. we will hear his pick for defense secretary this week. herell also possibly secretary of state. good morning. caller: good morning. the last time i spoke with you i told you donald trump had the republicans on the edge of their seats. he's got us all sitting there now. what i think is this. manufacturing is a dead dinosaur. it's not coming back. thiscariest part of all of is how do we move forward? in my time when i was working in the steel u.s. steel went under. i knew then that we had thingves a problem and my is bring somebody on to tell us, plan as it the pertains to free market and trickle-down economy. how does that affect us today? that's all i have to say. host: we have a couple of more tweets. another view on that 538 headline. you can continue the conversation on our facebook page. you can send a tweet. coming up in just a moment, the issue of al integrity. a former ftc commissioner will in the on illegal voting united states. on trackingsa gator conflict of interest with the president and his business dealings. how he can deal with these business interests before january 20. walters served as the white house usher in a number of administrations. he talked about what happens on january 20 when one president leaves another takes over. -- ashington journal will the entire resident staff, around 93 people are brought together in the state dining room for a brief goodbye with a first family. it becomes a tremendously moving time. it's a good buy. it's a final farewell. i establishedngs when i became chief usher was to take the flag flying over the ande house on inaugural day we take that down and keep it in the curator's office. also come the flag is flying over the white house on the morning that the president is going to leave office. i present those flags in a box made out of original white house would. when the white house was insideructed, the entire was gutted and some of that would was retained for historical purposes. the curators and the carpenters maintained control over that would at the direction of chief usher. for thethose boxes flags. theirally ends up in personal offices or libraries. it's a very meaningful ceremony. it's a private ceremony. the only people in there are the , the chiefthe family usher, and a few other very close staff members. things, it'shose the final goodbye. it's extremely difficult for the staff because they have to go new familyo move a in. they need to get ready for what's going to transpire in the coming years. he served as the white house usher from the reagan administration through the george w. bush administration. that's part of a panel discussion that we covered on the transition of process. we will have live coverage of the ceremonies on january 20. a --a. von spakovsky is good morning. thanks for being with us. let's start with some news of the weekend. we've been hearing a lot about the green party. they are now going to federal court to try to force a recount, they instituted a recount in pennsylvania, michigan, and wisconsin. guest: what they are claiming, they are not claiming voter fraud or problems like that. they are talking about electronic hacks in the voting equipment. they have no evidence of that. there is no central computer running voting machines. this is not the way the dnc was hacked by wikileaks. -- it requires physical access. they are not wired together. they are not in the internet. that they could hack into a large swath of voting machines in a state like wisconsin or elsewhere is not going to happen. particularly in places where they have paper ballots. host: are we better today than we were in 2000 with a recount in florida? guest: i think we are when it comes to voting equipment. in florida, the big deal was the punchcard voting equipment. there are no more punch cards being used. the two main ways that people vote all of the country is either electronic voting machines. cap --aces use opti scannable paper ballots. it scans through a computer which counts the vote. let me ask you about another story. they call it rank-based voting. the story is available online. would you explain what this is all about and why this is getting so much attention. guest: this is a proposal from academics. it's been going on for years. you would go into a polling place and if there were three candidates on the ballot, you wouldn't just vote for the one you wanted to have when. you would rank them. choice,d have a first second, third choice. gets theird choice your votes would automatically go over to the person you said was your second choice area that's the way it would work. it's very complicated. a lot of voters don't understand it. i'm not sure it's going to improve the way we do things already. votes decidegal elections? i think it is possible that in some close elections that could be happening. we have found cases of people who are noncitizens who are registering and voting all over the country. , an before the election organization in virginia issued a report that in eight counties in virginia they had removed over 1000 voters who were noncitizens. 10 years in virginia, they had to statewide attorney general races decided by less than 1000 votes. host: the honor system does not work. guest: unfortunately, it's true. the started about a year and a half ago a database. we started putting in voter fraud cases that we discovered in the news and elsewhere. we populated that database. we are up to 450 cases. these are not cases where someone say they saw something. these are cases where individuals have been convicted of voter fraud in the courts or a judge ordered a new election. cases.450 host: should there be some federal standards or a federal oversight of voting across the country? it seems like we're dealing with very close races. you mentioned the states in virginia being decided by a handful of votes. host: it's a good thing that we have the voting rights act in place. are of the motor voter laws good because it gives people the opportunity easily register and vote. constitutionally, the states are given the authority to run elections area -- elections. it would not be a good idea to have the federal government running elections. the decentralization is a good thing. it has saved us from a lot of problems if the central government were telling people how to run elections. ast: can you point to community that is doing it right and one that is doing it poorly? state i think kansas is a that has put in some measures to do it right here in -- right. they are put in a voter id law that applies to both in person an absentee ballots. they have a statute that requires proof of citizenship. that 30rted a program states are participating in in which they are comparing voter registration list of fine people who are voted in more than one state. we know that's a problem. almost 3 million people are registered in more than one state. a guy in 2012 voted in tennessee and florida and north carolina. host: are those unusual? guest: our databases filled with all kinds of voter fraud, absentee ballot fraud to noncitizens registering and voting illegally. host: our phone lines are open. our guest is the manager of the election law reform initiative of the heritage foundation. good morning. is there needsnt to be some standardization of the vote. up tosn't need to be left whoever is in power in a state in 2000.blicans the katherine harris deal that went on here in florida, when the votes were counted al gore one. think about what the consequences of that have been. if you want to talk about problems with the congress and it senate, as a person breaks my heart. i know we were cheated. that, here we are 16 years later and you have somebody who runs for president moreets 2.5 million votes than the person coming in. he is coming in. how is the will of the people done when we are supposed to be a nation where majority rules? guest: actually, i have to point out that we have an electoral college system. it worked the way the framers wanted it to work. a presidentraid of elected only by the national popular vote than candidates would simply ignore large parts of the country. they would ignore less populated areas. they would just go to big cities and try to win there. they set up the electoral college system. that means candidates have to deal with people throughout the country. win regional contests all across the country. i would point out that in florida actually they recounted the ballots. al gore was beaten. president bush had a little over 500 more votes. consortia after the election got together and recounted all the ballots in the state under several different methods. every time they did that george bush still won the state. former fec commissioner now with the heritage foundation. his work is available online. this tweet from donald trump. , new fraud in for genia hampshire and california. is he accurate? guest: he is more right than his critics are. his critics say there is absolutely no evidence of voter for a. a half we have put together a database of almost 700 convictions from around the country. there were cases where the fraud actually affected the outcome of the election. i think there is a very big problem with noncitizens. registering and voting across the country. could it affect the election? about two years ago some academics did some study. conclusion was that enough noncitizens may have voted in the 2008 election. that ino pointed out wasesota the senate race only one by a couple hundred votes. this says, what are the procedures if any following a vote? that is a very good question. there are no audit procedures a losingmeone starts candidate where they say something happened in the election that deserves a recount. there isn't an audit procedure goess the losing candidate into court and says we really need to do a recount. of that is just recently a losing candidate in a democratic primary in misery for the state legislative seat went to court. he had only lost by a small votes.of he was an african-american democrat who was challenging a longtime democratic incumbent. the judge in the case founded enough problems in the absentee ballot that he ordered a new and the challenger actually won the election. states have different laws about felons voting. you live in virginia. the 14th amendment gives to the state the power to decide when felons vote and when they won't vote. into states you can vote from prison. vermont and maine. virginia is one of the states where when you get out of prison you don't automatic to get your right to vote back. you have to have it restored by the governor. the dispute in virginia has been over the fact that the state constitution says that has to be done on individual case-by-case basis. the governor attempted to simply issue a blanket order that restore the rights of over 200,000 felons. to doing it on an individual basis and restored about 60,000 felons for the last election. host: sean is joining us from connecticut on the independent line. caller: good morning. i would like to ask about the thousand people in virginia that committed perjury when they registered to vote. are any of those folks getting prosecuted? guest: unfortunately not. one of the things we discovered from the organization that was doing that report was that while the county election officials took the noncitizens off the roll, they did not forward information about those individuals either to state prosecutors for the federal government. they should have done that. it is a felony. unfortunately that did not surprise me. five years ago i was on another and weelection board discovered almost 300 noncitizens who were registered to vote. we took them off the voter rolls and forwarded the information to the county prosecutor and u.s. justice department neither of whom did anything about it. host: our guest is a graduate of m.i.t. this is from carol. followed checking account in bush v gore. bush won by only 500 votes. a win is a win. another viewer saying jill stein was a spoiler for hillary. accurate or not? guest: we are not really sure who the jill stein voters would have voted for. jill stein has asked for a recount in these three states. normally the person asking for a recount is the candidate who came in second and they usually only asked for a recount if they have asked by a very small number of votes. in these three cases jill stein lost by a huge amount. she only got about 1% of the vote. there is absolutely zero chance that any kind of recount would change the outcome of the race. i think this is a huge waste of time and money. i'm not sure why she's going forward with this. host: if people want to follow you on twitter? let's go to bed in louisville -- ed in louisville, kentucky. caller: i would like to know why we can't have a national id for president. i can understand the states rights for the senate and house. it seems like we should be able to have a national id that is checked against our social security databases and tax databases to make sure they are legal u.s. citizens before they vote. anytime anyone has proposed a national id or federal requirement for a photo id card when you vote it has led to a huge fight. the last time congress passed a major piece of legislation on elections was the help america vote act in 2002. sunk by thes almost fight that republicans and democrats got into over the issue of a photo id card for voting. compromised and it is now part of federal law that this is one thing that every state has to do. when you register for the first time you have to provide a form of id but it can be anything from a bank statement to a utility card to a drivers license. we will follow-up up on your point about noncitizens. this fever says noncitizens are allowed to vote in some states but only in local elections. there's about a half-dozen small towns across the country that allow noncitizens to vote in those. they can't vote in state elections. all states require you to be a citizen and you can vote in federal elections. gloria in maryland on the democrat line. hans von spakovsky is from the. isn't that a republican organization? it seems like in history that the few times we have had a problem with the popular vote not matching the electoral college has always been on the side of the republicans. why are the republicans so set on saying there is a legal loading when most of the republicans -- illegal voting when most of the republicans hold the state senate seats which are in charge of the voting acts that are local in every state? most of them are republicans. rampant scandal going on with voter registration fraud? a person serves a certain time in jail they should be able to vote once they are out and free of whatever crime they committed. that's what president obama was trying to put in place. it's not like we are trying to steal votes because the republicans are always the ones that come out the victor. i still think the bush gore thing was a fraud. his brother was the governor. scalia changed the supreme court vote. who did that benefit? are cheating so much on the democrat side wire the republicans always the victor? host: thanks for the call. john quincy adams, benjamin, george w. bush and now donald trump. five presidents who did not win the popular vote. guest: one of those presidential races where the winner of the popular vote was not elected president was rutherford b. hayes. look at what historians have said about that race. it was right after the end of reconstruction. a lot of folks actually believe that rutherford b. hayes did win the popular vote. because the votes of african-americans throughout the south were suppressed. they believe there was huge voter fraud in those southern states to prevent african-americans who voted for republicans at that time from winning. the electoral college was effective in picking the winner. is not aage foundation republican organization. we are a conservative organization. wins at the end of a race as long as every eligible voter has been able to vote and their votes haven't been stolen. there are a lot of secretaries of state in the country who are republican. the groups that have been fighting efforts to improve the integrity of the election process are mostly progressive left groups. --er fraud is not something it is bipartisan. there have been cases of democrats being convicted of voter fraud. you go to places like kentucky and you will find places there. local officials being convicted of voter fraud. spent something like $12,000 buying votes which of course is a felony. should voter fraud be a federal crime? guest: it is a federal crime. it is a state crime and a federal crime. a lot of folks who are critical of efforts to stop voter fraud say there aren't that many cases. that's not the way it works. the justice department's attitude is when fraud occurs they monitor it and they wait for locals to prosecute the cases. if they don't take care of a problem the federal government will step in to do it. the problem is fraud is very difficult to discover after an election. to putuch easier measures in place that make it hard to commit. host: this document is available on the website. what surprised you the most? what surprised me the most was the reaction of political groups and others when voter fraud is discovered and prosecuted. in the 1990's the clinton administration prosecuted and convicted almost a dozen local officials in a small county in alabama. it was clear they had been stealing elections for years. this is a heavily democratic county. heavily african-american. stealingumbents aren't votes from other republicans, they were stealing votes from other democratic challengers. the person called the justice department was a young african-american reformer who wanted to replace one of the county officials to try to clean up the government. local organizations like the naacp and others rather than helping this challenger raised all these charges that investigating and prosecuting this voter fraud was an attempt to suppress black votes. they sided with the vote steelers and i was just astounded at that. in the end fortunately these individuals were all convicted. african-american turnout in the county went up after the election. host: john is next on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. first-time caller on the republican line. i saw an investigative report last week about illegals voting in california. of the 12 states that issues drivers license to illegals. about westerning vendorsre there are that create these fake documents. one of those three is all they have to present to vote. it's even easier. i know the report you are talking about. you don't really need to show id in california to vote. this is the 20th anniversary in california of an election contest between an incumbent republican who lost an loretta sanchez. house committee investigated the and found over 600 noncitizens were found to have voted in that race and that was 20 years ago. unfortunately things in california have just gotten worse since then. in 2011 you say the electoral board in fairfax county virginia sent the justice department information about 278 noncitizens registered to vote in fairfax county. what happened? nothing happened. it just disappeared into the black hole of the justice department. we never got a single call from them. they didn't prosecute it. felonyere 278 potential voter fraud cases that could have prosecuted and they did nothing about it. host: go to jerry in florida. good morning. caller: i would like to invite to takeleman prosecutor his database to case western reserve university statistics department. where i work. and show your database which has been proven to be completely just like your statement that you are a conservative organization not a republican organization. you know that's false. and you know your database is false. the things that you are discussing right now could not live in the light of day of science. thank you. host: we will get a response. our database is a listing of court convictions. in each case you will see the either a newspaper article discussing the conviction of an individual in a court of law for committing voter fraud or actual court documents. is somehow at it false database, all the source material is there. a sampling of election fraud cases from across the country is available online. thank you for being with us. guest: i appreciate you having me. our attentionturn to another issue. melissa yeager will be with us to talk about donald trump his many business holdings. tax structure may make it far more complicated for him to divest from the trump organization. relations inropean a trumpet administration's. here to take your calls and comments. we travel around the country. you can watch the programs on book tv and american history tv. tempeeekend we travel to arizona and look at the careers of two long serving u.s. senators from the state of arizona. here's a preview. carl hayden through his 57 year career in congress was known as the silent senator. he had the reputation of being the war course, not the show horse. in his work in congress. what that really means is when you look at his career he was really responsible for cosponsoring and writing a huge amount of legislation that benefited the citizens of arizona and the citizens of the united states. barry goldwater was very much the show horse. he was a person that represented the freedom of the west. he had a strong jaw and bright eyes that reminded people of what it was like to live in the western united states. through his presidential campaign and his work in the he was aates senate person who represented the interests of the west to the general population and presented a new idea of what the west could be. this weekend on book tv and american history tv. available online any time at c-span.org. we hope you tune in. welcome melissa yeager with the sunlight foundation. graduate of the university of kansas now pursuing her masters at american university. thanks for being with us. guest: thanks for having me. host: what does donald trump need to do to divest himself? this is nothing like we have ever seen before. this is new territory for the american public. we have had this bipartisan view over the years that it's important that our leaders eliminate conflicts of interest. in this case he really has to look at divesting the interests of his company. he has talked a lot about whether he should move the company under his kids. that really doesn't put up the walls that need to be involved to make sure there is no between theinterest business of the american public and his business. the president-elect would have to navigate what political is calling a staggering tax bill if he is to be fully teased out of his business empire. himself, whovests is running the business. his sons and daughter. guest:'s children should have no involvement in the business as well. that presents a huge conflict of interest as well. clearly he's not going to stop talking to his children about what's going on in their day. it leaves the opportunity for a type of corruption and conflict of interest. it would be in the best interest of both of them and the american people to make sure they are moving these assets into a blind trust. putting a bigger wall between his business and the business of the american people. if you have investments and stocks you can put that in a blind trust and not know how your manager is going to invest in those companies. in this case its physical property not just investments. guest: this is something we should have talked more about during the election and that his staff should have prepared for as well. a lot of writers have written about the security interests of the property. you have a building with the president's name on it overseas. what kind of security risk does that pose? what kind of conflict of interest does protecting that security interest posed to the american public? i think it's good that donald trump and his advisers are having folks look at this and try to figure out what the best way to pursue is. questions that we need to answer and figure out how to put this wall in between these assets. this full story is available at politico. ethics expertsnt pushing trump to divest himself saying he should qualify for tax typically issued by the u.s. government office of ethics. no president ever asked for one. we don't know whether a president can get one. this is uncharted water. congress does need to get involved in these discussions. they're supposed to be the watchdog over the executive branch. members of congress have pushed for investigation and talking about these issues. others have said let's wait and see until january. are very complicated issues and we need to have congress figuring out how do we put this wall in between donald trump and the business of the american people. host: article one section nine of the u.s. constitution says no person holding any office of profit or trust under them shall any office of any kind whatsoever from any king prints or foreign state. this is one of the areas that people have said when he takes office will he be in violation of the constitution. that depends on the key phrase does congress give him permission for this. certainly entering office with this hanging over his head. from a political standpoint this leaves him open to adversaries who may want to derail legislation or his presidency. when we talk about separating himself from conflicts of interest it'salso and his best interest to make sure he's not opening himself up to this cloud hanging over his head when he gets into office. it is clearly being brought up as people are concerned about the conflicts of interest. melissa yeager with the sunlight foundation. her work is available online. get your reaction to what senator ben cardin had to say about donald trump and his foreign business holdings. >> the aim of my resolution is straightforward. it takes a strip interpretation of the plain words of the constitution and supports the traditional practices adopted by previous presidents. it calls on trump to follow the precedents established by prior .residents it calls on the president-elect to refrain from using the powers and opportunities of this position related to the trump organization. he does not take appropriate to histo sever his ties businesses congress will have no dealingst to view any mr. trump has through this companies with foreign governments or entities as a potential violation of the cause. host: senator ben cardin in maryland. we are glad he is raising the questions and starting a conversation in congress. how do we separate the conflict of interest? moreld like to hear republicans talking on this issue. it has become a very partisan issue but it really isn't. the american people should be able to come to an agreement that having a president who has a running business that could create a pathway for money and corruption in the american government is concerning and what steps are we going to take to ensure there is not attempt nation or possibility of corruption in our system. this is why you have an ethics lawyer you consult with when you are president. i hope the people who are advising donald trump take this very seriously. host: the old post office is now a trump property. tenant of that a property. can he as the president be the tenant of a gsa operative building? there is a lease that says you cannot be an employee of the united states government. leaseholder and the president of the united states or employee of the government. that istty spelled out one area he would be in conflict. kind of office building quintessentially puts together all the different issues. you have the domestic issues of the lease. an american president having business interests run by a government agency. the domestic issue. of foreignve stories diplomats making reservations there. in many countries that's how you gain influence is making sure you stay at the influential persons property. as wellery concerning to see that foreign diplomats are making reservations there because they perceive that as a way to gain influence. glenn is joining us from california on the republican line. good morning. what do you call accepting a million-dollar peace prize and then effectively sponsoring illegal aliens through executive that the courts have found unconstitutional? why aren't you talking about the president in office? he's got a clean slate from the press. he's just such a great guy. the sunlight foundation -- what are you guys? part of the democratic party? it's disgusting what c-span has stooped to nowadays. isn't that a million-dollar gift? crap that america is going to? host: we did not stoop to anything. this program allows people from leading think tanks to come to the table and promote their point of view. the purpose is for you and others to phone in and have a civil dialogue. chance for you to watch and listen and learn and also weigh in. the very transparent process. the sunlight foundation is nonpartisan nonprofit dedicated to open government and government transparency. no matter who you voted for that should be something we all value. a transparent government that is free of corruption. when the president came into his term that was something his ethics lawyers did red flag. there was substantial debate about whether he could accept this. they decided in that case the price was not from a government. it was from an independent organization so he could accept the money. that's why you have an ethics lawyer. so you can have these discussions and make sure that you are flagging things. host: we certainly encourage you to disagree with our guest will we ask that you do so in a civil way. that's one of the hallmarks of our network. joe is joining us from missouri. caller: good morning. first of all there is such thing as nonpartisan. this woman is definitely a democrat. they are the only ones that are so concerned. how come you weren't so concerned when hillary clinton bill clinton and chelsea had a foundation and bill clinton was making all kinds of speeches? i think hillary clinton was getting paid while she was secretary of state. i didn't see the sunlight thingtion doing a damn about it or being concerned about it. guest: actually we were concerned about that. if the election had gone a different way you would see me on here talking about the foundation. a lot of people had prepared for and thenversations election has now switched us the other way. i wish we had talked more about conflicts of interest during the election. i can't see how this is a partisan issue. upset about the foundation should be upset about this too. i think this should be something we as the american people say there is a standard that we believe that government service is important and it's important that our government leaders aren't tempted by outside business. they are there to serve the american people and that we put a structure in place to ensure that the american people are protected. host: jerry from georgia on the democrat line with melissa yeager. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. in a democrat and a live hotbed of republicans. being a democrat where i live in north georgia. i hope that you can do some of the things that you plan to do. tell you the people that are republican in my area don't care about rules. they don't care about morality. they don't care about rules and politics. i think trump is going to be able to do whatever he wants to do no matter what. the sunlight foundation or the democrats try to do. that's my comment. thank you. this is why government participation is important. people are paying attention to what has been happening in their government and have very strong feelings about that. i hope that if you have strong feelings either way that you are contacting your lawmakers and making sure your voice is heard on this issue. just because there are people who feel like these are partisan issues i really don't feel the idea that we would make sure that our government is free from conflicts of interest and that we have a structure in place to make sure the business of the american people takes precedent doesn't seem like something that republicans and democrats should be that far apart on. encourage members of congress on both sides to work together to make sure we come up with a solution for this. host: who funds the sunlight foundation? guest: we have them posted on our website. you can see all of the different donors. tracking also have a of some of the potential pitfalls and issues that trump has been facing and will face. guest: we have been keeping an ongoing list of all of the reporting we have seen about conflict of interest. this becomes very difficult for people to understand. the tweets about different pop culture issues people can really understand easily and engage with. we wanted to give a running list of all the different reporting we have seen on issues both domestically and abroad where we felt like there could be an instance where the interests of the trump organization could be in conflict with the american people. the appearance of impropriety is something that he as well as the american people should believe that we should work to eliminate these conflicts. we are up to 26 different instances right now. at thecan take a look reporting and evaluate for themselves what they think of that. host: republican line in washington, d.c. caller: good morning. i think congress has a plate full of things we need them to do from years back. congress should be anywhere near. that decision should be made at the supreme court only. all of these other groups are just going to be anti-trump and tie us up for another couple years. we have kids that need to be educated. important issues other than dealing with a president who has some ethical problems that have not even occurred. we are just assuming these things are going to happen and that he doesn't have enough common sense to separate them. i don't think the congress is capable of doing that. host: thank you. guest: she makes some great points. i don't know if the supreme court is the right avenue. i think mr. trump himself and thatdvisories -- advisers is something they need to do. voters during this election said they want those issues brought to the forefront. my question is if there are these conflicts of interests and we go into january 20 and he starts proposing legislation are we going to be in this constant of what his motives -- whether he's going to benefit even if he has the best intentions the fact that if peoplestill there think political enemies aren't going to exploit those things i think that's naive. i think putting the structure in place to ensure they are free of this is important and that's the responsibility of the president-elect. this is something both president bush and president obama took on. most presidents evaluate their interests and make plans before they come into office. when they are in office they are solely focused on the business of the american people and that's what we should be looking at right now as well. yeager has won a number of regional emmy awards for her investigating reporting. also worked in kansas city and is a senior staff writer at the sunlight foundation. has ever been president saw their personal wealth increase. this time seems no different. you have to look at how their wealth increased. whether it was from books or a variety of other things. we are looking at business that could be influenced by the decisions made by that office that's very concerning. think it's unreasonable to want to take a look and put a sureture in place to make there is not a temptation to make decisions based on business. say he puts it in treasury bonds. it is possible his wealth could grow as he moved the country. country --aves the as he leads the country. the concern is whether the decisions he will make in his office will affect his bottom line and not be looking out in the best interest of the american people. host: his daughter and two of his sons who are involved in the trump organization. this is the family as they arrived early on the morning of november 9 as donald trump declared victory. we will show you the scene as we listen to alex in new hampshire on the independent line. caller: good morning. i would like to question the lack of of your guest's partisanship. her website does list a lot of their donors but what they don't show is that george soros open society is one of their major foundation donators. george soros is a known international rabble-rouser and international reprobate known for funding far left causes. that's why we put our donors on our website. you are entitled to evaluate those and make decisions. i believe if you look through our coverage it is nonpartisan and we have done just as many stories concerning mr. soros. a variety of stories about his background in donations and we have done a lot of stories about hillary clinton as well. are in is about the transparency and accountability of government. i don't think that's a partisan issue. that do you have a sense hillary clinton had one bill clinton already announced he would step down from the foundation. this would be the discussion we would be having. a discussion we should have had in 2008 when she was running. we would be having it now. you have to look at what is the relationship and how would a foreign interest perceive having a child running a business and what they see that as an opportunity. that would be the discussion we would be having. the advice would be you would need to roll that foundation into a new organization or divested into current charities who do similar work. we would be having this conversation in 2020 when there are new presidents with new conflicts of interests. this is a normal conversation to be having at this time as we are transitioning. let's go to tom in florida on the democrat line with melissa yeager. good morning. caller: good morning. i believe everybody from both sides of the aisle should be demanding of our congress and that every president, every senior staff for the white house, every congressperson, every senator and every governor should be required by law to put any business they have been a complete bind -- blind trust and i would have insisted on the same from mrs. clinton if she were in the white house as well. ofve got too many examples rings like this that happened. governor in florida has businesses that as conflicts of interests but he says there is no conflict because his wife is running them. he was convicted of the biggest fine when he ran the health care company. i don't really trust him. what do you think? think you have a very good point. it's important to point out that we have these rules in place for members of congress and other people serving our government. donald trump is correct that the vice president and the president are exempt. saying they are exempt from these rules doesn't mean those conflicts don't exist and that -- propensity for issues to arise don't exist. in the past presidents have voluntarily acted like the rules that apply to congress also apply to them. in this case i hope the people that are advising donald trump gives similar advice as epic lawyers have given to past presidents. that's one of those areas were each state has to make its own rules. i think it's a very important to voice your concerns about the ethics laws of your state. we don't talk about the state level which is where a lot of the things that affect our lives happen. i encourage you to make sure you are reaching out to your state level reps as well. rudy giuliani has been mentioned as a potential secretary of state. are there conflicts of interest? you have a treasury secretary who worked for goldman sachs. i imagine in that case it will much like hank paulson where he will divest his interests and put them in a blind trust. the laws do apply to that office and there are rules in place that allow them to do so tax-free which is important to encourage people in the private sector to serve our government. that's another issue we will have to take a look at. around theches world, is advising people. how will that be in conflict with someone who would be leading the department of state? it would be something we would have to take a look at. we are talking about the business interests of donald trump. garrett is joining us from orlando, florida. caller: good morning. my question was answered earlier. i believe you have already answered that question. could you elucidate a bit? i think it's an important thing to talk about. there is a lot of back-and-forth about what about the clintons. i don't think it's unreasonable to say there were some issues that we should talk about and that we should have talked about and there should be a structure in place. however she did not win the election so here we are talking about donald trump and his conflict of interest. these are normal questions that we should be asking during this transition into. looking at both candidates either way we would have been having this discussion about conflicts of interest. to take aess need look at the fact that the president and vice president are exempt? i think that's a worthy discussion to have. it will be interesting to see what moves forward. this is a tweet saying are you claiming that a potential conflict of interest or unconstitutional? is there a difference? you have the clause in the constitution and certain things that fit under that and then there are conflict of interest. this goes back to the complexity of his financial dealings. there are things that are hitting all over. some are things that are possibly unconstitutional. it is important for us to have clear heads when we evaluate and make decisions and voice our concerns about what steps need to be done to resolve these. if we are worried about a conflict of interest with children in businesses should be worried about spouses as well? guest: i think that's a valid question. that is something we need to address. forward to a more thorough discussion by the american people and members of congress on this issue. for your calls and tweets. the lane on the republican line. good morning. you are hanging your hat on article one section nine of the constitution. deals with what legislative powers. article two is the one about the president. congresstake an act of changing our constitution to apply article one section nine. i don't know why you are misleading this audience. in my opinion you are misleading the saudis to make them think it would be unconstitutional and it's not. that's all i have to say. 15th on december the donald trump will hold a news conference announcing his plans to divest himself of the trump organization. onexpect to have that december 15. guest: i don't think anywhere i this isd that unconstitutional. the important part of this clause is that congress makes that decision whether it is constitutional or not. ist because something constitutional doesn't mean the conflicts of interest and concerns of the american people may be in conflict with mr. trump's business and there could be an avenue for corruption. i don't think that goes away just because something is constitutional. i think the american people have the responsibility to ask is aions to ensure there structure in place that we are not distracted by these topics of interest once we get into january and congress is in session. host: what questions will you be asking moving ahead? guest: i'm really interested in what they are designing. i think a lot of people are like why hasn't he released something right now? think it's reasonable to give him time to sort through everything and find the best avenue. press be looking at that conference for the plan and the timeline. that's a reasonable expectation for any president coming into office. what are the deadlines and making sure those are in place on january 20. he is not distracted by his business when he was serving as president. host: melissa yeager, thank you for being with us. speaking of our 45th president, what will relations be like under a trump administration in particular with our closest allies -- germany, great britain and the rest of europe? perspective that from holger stark and julian borger. will be with us coming up in just a moment. on newsmakers our guest is the ranking democrat on the house judiciary committee. they joined us for a discussion about police community relations. ony're both working examining the friction and violence between police and citizens. here's >> this is not a simple problem that passing the bill and signing a low will take care of. with the newthat administration, we can find ways to continue to work on this .olicing strategies conference i started out with an open mind. i start out with an attitude that is cooperative and we continue and set a good example for our colleagues on both sides of the aisle about an issue that is emotional and as touchy as this one with police relations. thatnk it has to be said in many places where things occur, it is an poverty-stricken communities, places that are more desolate places, places which there is already a problem of high crime rates. >> what is going to be the reaction of the new administration to this work you are doing? what do you think the new administration is going to have its own idea? >> it is so new that we don't have but a few names of people who will be in positions that inld be very important this regard, and i look forward to having discussions with those because i think this is something that the american and thatally long for, the administration could provide some real leadership in helping the kind of trust that we need in communities between law enforcement and the people that they are sworn to serve and protect, some of whom do not understand that, and we need to promote that. i also want to say that this is something that really i think is something that the congress, both the house and senate, should get behind because we could lead the way in terms of showing what kinds of things can be done based on what we have learned. host: the chair and veteran democrat on the house judiciary committee, are two guest on "newsmakers" every sunday at 10:00 eastern time and also on c-span radio. we hope you tune in. "washington journal" continues. tv in depth, ak discussion on this december 19 41 attack on pearl harbor on the eve of the 75th anniversary. author of "countdown to pearl harbor: the 12 days to the "japan" and author of 1941, countdown to infamy," and author of the book "from infinity -- infamy to greatness." american sailors percent account of pearl harbor. we are taking your phone calls and questions live from noon to 3:00 p.m. eastern. go to the tv.org for the complete schedule -- go to v.org for-- bookt the complete schedule. host: "der spiegel's" holger stark, good morning. thank you for being with us. who is withorger "the guardian" newspaper. this is a great piece from "the washington post," -- "the peril of an angry minority," and she -- es host: your comments? guest: just about right. there is a certain element of thaos now because of the brexi vote because the people campaigning for it did not figure out what it would mean, and now, this government, that has emerged from the wreckage, is trying to work it out, but there is a dearth of ideas about how to make this work that is not incredibly damaging for all sectors of the u.k. economy. host: where does this leave the british prime minister and president donald trump? guest: in a way, it is the one european capital where there would be an element of relief about the trump collection. with the brexit vote, we were at the back of the line when it came to trade relations with the u.s. with donald trump selection and the prospect for the transatlantic trade partnership, , with them- ttip thedon, we are no longer in back of the line finding their place in the new order. as an element in london and feels that we are no longer -- or there is another country that has messed up the in aing order in a way, more damaging way than ours. we are no longer the back of the classroom. host: this is from "the new york looking at how donald trump will deal with world leaders. a couple of days after he was elected, after brushing out the u.k., mr. trump offers a casual invitation to the prime minister saying "if you travel to the u.s., you should let me know." guest: it caught some amusement straight off, but it is seriously taking in the u.k. because of what they were saying, no rules anymore. it is our job to get close to the new administration and anything is possible. they are not ruling out a meeting between president-elect trump and theresa may, even before the inauguration. they want to make sure that britain stays close to the administration of the day. host: prime minister may was the ninth person in touch with donald trump after talking about world leaders and some say that in and of itself is a slap to the u.k. guest: and british diplomats say, well, if all the rules that have been thrown out, there was no rhyme or reason to the way the calls were made and that seems to be true. they do not think about in order protocols, so they try to play that down as it was taken in the u.k. press. host: let's turn to germany, because with this president, barack obama has had a close, tense relationship with angela merkel. will she run for another term? guest: yes, she just announced it and she has a good chance to be reelected in the fall. host: what will the relationship be like between this new president and the german chancellor, who has played a pivotal role in european politics? guest: germany played a decisive role when it came to almost all major conflicts with respect to europe over the last years. chancellor merkel was the go to guy when it came to russia and the ukraine. she was the one who tried to be something like mediator between the united states and vladimir did not go along well, so this is all at stake now. there is a huge question mark around the future of the transatlantic relationship itself because donald trump is challenging everything we know. he challenged nato, the european union, coming with the concept of america first, and the european concept of having the ason of states, and acting union solidarity, this is a solid-state because of the united kingdom and it is hard to get out of the european union. the question is, will you look what is best for your state or try to be something bigger like a union of values and ideas? this is something that has to be sorted out between germany and the united states. how important was it that in his final overseas visit that one of the stops was berlin? guest: i think for president obama, it was a main decision to emphasize a strong transatlantic relationships. he decided to go to berlin to point that out and encourage her. they met for twice, three hours, dinner and a private session. this has never happened before to that extent between barack obama and another head of state, so he really wants her to stand -- you could say, last man standing, but he sees her as the defender democracy in europe when it comes to this chain of elections. we had friends going to be election in april, the netherlands, so there might be a long chain of questions were populism might rise and obama sees angela merkel as a defender of the free world. look at austria and italy, we have a line for those watching outside the united states, this program carried on the bbc parliament channel and the armed services network and streamed on a website, www.c-span.org. .202)-748-8003 here is what you wrote based on an interview with barack obama last month in germany -- "it was certainly striking how quickly president obama was able to come to terms with donald trump selection victory. prior, he had said trump was dangerous and unfit to be president. election, obama received trump in the white house and said the transition would be seamless, as the method had happened. trump was a demagogue? racist? as usual.ss just one present passing the baton to the next. guest: it was surprising, given what obama said during the election. i think he tries to preserve his dignity and of the white house, and he tries to pull him into dates and influence and as long as possible. i think he still sticks to what he has said during the election, but he tries to maintain the dignity of the presidency. host: and julian borger wrote the following -- it seems more likely that he means what he said all along with u.s. relations with the rest of the world and turned the ideas into policy under his personal leadership. the transpacific partnership and transatlantic trade and investment partnership with europe will be the first to be halted. opposition to those deals where a cornerstone of the trump campaign. guest: that is right. i think that is a consistent theme of his campaign, against multilateral trade deals, in getting inw the u.s. the words, and his view of trade, but also international a long series of bilateral relationships. he does not see the world in .ultilateral settings he is going to make when he sees as the best deal for the u.s. from his point of view, one capital at a time, but clearly, that is going to run into problems because for example, if he was to walk out at the nuclear deal with iran, that would definitely anger european allies, but also, russia and china, who was hoping to have or better hoping to have better relations with merkel, and hoping to get a better trade deal with china. every step of the way, everything he does in one bilateral setting will affect another, so life that comes at him will prove far more complicated than on the campaign. host: julian borger, editor for "the guardian" in washington, d.c., and holger stark. afro lines are open, (202)-748-8000 for democrats. --2)-748-8001 to republicans our lines are open, (202)-748-8000 for democrats. (202)-748-8001 for republicans. good afternoon. go ahead. caller: good afternoon. host: go ahead, john. caller: i am here but i think i am on hold. host: we can hear you, go ahead. theer: my question is with decisiveness and the close election in the united states and with the brexit wrote, do they see this posted by causing something in the future? 60-40 orthere is a larger percentage, but because of both of these divides in the countries that are so close, for example, does the british commentators see this evolving into more controversy? do the german commentator see this as a harder challenge for germany in dealing with the united states and in britain? host: your follow-up, john? caller: my question is, do they see this movie not toward other countries like austria, italy with their elections and the netherlands? this close divide with the left and right? host: thank you. that is howe way, democracy works. even in the close range, you have type calls and majority and minority. if you are the winner for your policy and you have to try to convince people, but it also shows how deeply divided many societies are right now and how divided the united kingdom has been over the brexit decision. i think it is a hard thing to say that you are going to recast over again and let's ask people again about brexit. if there is a decision, you have to go forward and go for it. in germany, we don't have these electorates like in the united states, so we probably will have thech clearer result in coalition in germany that doesn't apply to much. up whate caller brought is happening in italy and austria, but the headline this morning from "the washington post" in austria, and the other headline, italy they seem -- italy reckoning with populism, the potential power and attention new prime minister in italy. what is going on? guest: you can see these dominoes, where they have an established liberal order were attwar continues to collapse the time of this populous way during the new leaders, who thect that order, reject quality you and transatlantic. -- eu and transatlantic. host: a caller in new jersey, pronounce your name, please. caller: [indiscernible] good morning. stark.tion is to mr. i would like to know how it feels -- how he feels toward terms comments during the debate that he would disregard the american military code of conduct and the geneva convention? and how it it fair with american ?ilitary presence in germany guest: thank you. first, trump said a lot on the campaign, and this one is definitely [indiscernible] and an overwhelming majority of germans would consider this [indiscernible] problems when it came to the iraq war where there has been a huge opposition in germany, and germany has also been -- had a complicated dealing with interrogation techniques and different stuff. the rule of law and germany would for bid germans to march at sign of the americans, so as trump sticks to that position, it will challenge the line, but on the other hand, the have are the set back and they have said a lot of things, so what would be the policy in the white house would be a different thing. host: this is a tweet from a britainas germany and act to propose terms efforts, if necessary, how? guest: i think actively opposing is a huge word, i do think anyone is opposing him now. everyone is looking to see what he does. angela merkel used smart language. she said she is willing to work for the united states, willing to work with donald trump on the cases of democracy, including freedom of speech, a division of power, and based on those, she is very much welcoming donald trump, which means if you are abandoning freedom of press, abandoning freedom of religion, abandoning the position of power, you are not all-powerful. host: the me go to "the new york times," with brexit the issue of an donald trump. for seven decades, the right, the u.s. and britain define and defend it the vision of democracy and freedom that profoundly shape the global order. it happens when their own citizens opt out of it? guest: we are about to find out. we're entering uncharted waters. a new political order in britain. we are about to leave the eu and we don't know what that means, and we don't know what a trump administration will look like. there is hope in the european capitals that when everything settles down, appointments are made, cabinet positions, things will look more or less like the status quo with a slight push to the right. it might not go that way. no one really knows. there is a lot of wishful thinking going on in western european capitals that the status quo more or less, of liberal order, however you like to praise it, will remain intact under this strain. that is not a given. host: you will have more than enough to write about in washington, d.c. guest: that is the upside. host: and you are traveling back to germany after the now gratian to do what? guest: covering the next election, the german prime minister will be elected next year, so there will be a lot of things with a similar tone. it on the rise, very similar phenomenon, and she is coming from a position where she says like france, similar to a donald trump says to america first, and we have our right party in germany, which is on them having we see a dominant effect that will challenge the overall idea of the european union. there will be the same issue. pat from's go to michigan, republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you. my comment is simple, basic. i hope i can say it right. when our founding fathers worked out the form of government they were going to have in this country, the people in europe and other countries that this was ridiculous, this is never going to work, people governing themselves was unheard of. well, it did work. i think the majority of people in this country do not like the idea of globalism and this country having to go by rose up other countries and nations who live differently from us. when it comes to trade agreements, i heard it mentioned once in the last couple of months. why would we have to have trade agreements with other countries? traden't america just with the countries that it wants to trade with and to want to trade with us? to me, that this keeping our individualism and being who we are. we will be friends with any country who wants to be friends with us. host: thank you. guest: i think globalization is really difficult to avoid. made nowadays will have one component made in one country and another on the other side of the world. they bring together symbols in a third country, and that is why the nation state has tended to go for multilateral trade deals because it is a simplifying process. what has failed in globalization, because we are now all much more prosperous than we were a few decades ago, before globalization really took out, but what has they'll the globalization is that there are winners and losers, and our societies have failed to compensate the losers for what they have lost and the jobs have gone overseas. that has been a problem in the u and thatroblem here the u.k., which used to be industrial powerhouses but now lie in ruins. failedcracies, we have to take the step necessary to bring those people along with the process of good globalization and make them feel they are benefiting, too. the way i see it is it has been more failure of democracies been up globalization. host: let me turn from trade to syria, and issue you wrote about. remind our audience that they are dealing with the situation in syria, feeling that there will be a vacuum or stored five and toward al qaeda. the headline net washington the so entangled in the network of business relations it is almost impossible to divide the policy. that is something that the watch carefully. he is going to give a press conference in the coming days. that -- unless he completely divests himself of all ownership of these far-flung businesses in 20 countries and that money is put in a blind trust and he has no idea where it's being invested and cap severed from him, it will be impossible to avoid a conflict of interest. host: one of the big challenges is that is not just investment or stock portfolios. these are buildings and hotels and properties. guest: and with the famous monuments clause of the constitution. those banks or the diplomats in his hotel are paid by the state. he is receiving income from a foreign state. what does that mean in terms of a constitutional position? is ablehuge mess, but to separate himself entirely from his business empire. host: a couple of months since theresa may became the prime minister. how is she doing? guest: she has been given and a possible hand to play -- and impossible hand to play. the nation voted for brexit. the people who live the campaign of now dispersed. he became an icon of the campaign, at the european parliament right now. he needs to leave the mess behind. she has been left holding the baby. guideline, no roadmap of how to do it. the british government over the next couple of years, british diplomacy in the next few years will be focused. all the energy will be taken up on how to extricate ourselves from this very deep and wide entanglement we have with the european union. it will be very difficult to find the energy to do anything else in the world. caller: i am calling to ask if the people in the u k and the people in europe blame the leadership of the united states for their own economic problems ourerms of some of leadership in globalization, especially our financial baditutions and banks that behavior crossed our crash and now it seems to be threatening crashes in europe? host: we will get a response. guest: i don't think so. everybody is connected for everybody and that is for sure 2008e banking crisis in has been triggered in the united states, but remember, the euro crisis, which started a couple of years ago is a very homemade crisis in europe. look at spain, italy, southern european countries. they failed when it came to their budget, and so the currency questions are very much european questions and not so much related to the united states. i think the point that julian made earlier is a valuable point that every western democracy restrict globalization and defined roles, which applied apply that you don't only have on one hand the wonders of globalization, which other companies trading overseas, but on the other hand, you deal with people losing something in those are usually the workers, people losing their jobs, people who were in charge of producing something that is not produced in mexico or the philippines or somewhere else. ais is something that is challenge for everyone, but i don't see that as a blame game here. is on a radiotark podcast once a week, check it out on a website that www.c-span.org and go to c-span radio, free and available on all devices. one thing that struck me is that you were in iowa 18 months ago covering donald trump early on. my question is, your general thoughts about america's political process? guest: it is too long for everybody. it is exhausting. and i think the and is not support much of the democratic process in terms of figuring out things. there was an interesting event and generate 2016, a freedom --mit related to a tea party to the tea party, and almost everybody on the republican side stood up and presented his or her ideas, and donald came as one of the outlaws, so he did not declare his candidacy at that time and he was testing the water, clearly, and having his candidacy in mind already, suddenly, things would work well, but it is exhausting and we have seen over that long process of how deep the division in the country became because they over and over again attacked each other. the european model of having a compressed election campaign of six weeks to eight weeks, maybe three months, where you compete and go to the idea that at the end is more fruitful. host: what do you think? think the difficulty with the length of the campaign is how much it costs and because of the length of the campaign, it cost billions of dollars, therefore, money becomes a key issue in politics and andressman and senators presidents to some extent focused along the lines of the reelection, which involved in fundraising, said the amount of time spent governing diminishes compared to the amount of time that needs to be spent raising funds for the next election. burden thatge american democracy carries and that other european democracies don't cover up for having very short, much more affordable collections. european publications represented. is is joining us from -- joe joining us from west virginia. good morning. caller: morning. ther german geither made thing a while ago, saying they will wait to see it trump, whether or not he is going to go by the freedom of the press and freedom of speech and things we have. he will go by that. tried toat obama, he stop fox news -- he tried to get them off the air, and he has done everything he can to get around our constitution. go, 5es to let immigrants million people here without applying for citizenship or anything. those are our laws. guest: interesting point. when it comes to donald trump, he either sticks to the freedom of press and speech or he doesn't. been only say that i have to 15 or 20 of his rallies during the campaign, and one of the very bitter moments, all of this came to the situation when donald trump interrupted his speech and turned to the journalist in the middle of the room in a cage behind fences, and he stopped his speech and pointed to a finger and said, those guys over there are the most miserable guys i have ever seen, the most dishonest people i know. everybody turned around and was skimming at the journalists. i think that was a situation where there was a lot of pressure and anger and a lot of violence in the air. is this -- if this is something that shows support of freedom of the press, i think donald trump is failing. i hope he is changing his behavior and taking a different course when in the white house. so far, i have not seen much of appreciation of freedom of press from his side. host: one of the key moments last summer, one year ago, and vice president biden announced he would not be running for the democratic nomination. you wrote in your most recent "after a black president, conservative white america has collected the only white men on the ballot. it is also true that they advised joe biden running against because he wanted a clear path for hillary clinton, partly because he wanted to put build your dream of becoming president. the president ignored the fact that she had too many blemishes from the beginning." guest: in hindsightguest:, [indiscernible] i think joe biden would have been the one candidate that would have come out strongly against donald trump. he is appealing to the pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin when it comes to those states, so he knows the challenges in those regions and he could come up with a stronger position on that then hillary clinton bid. in hindsight, she was a week candidate andeak joe biden would have performed much better. host: let's go to michael from new jersey. independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you pursue spend and having me on your show. i'm not sure you touched on this subject. as the globalist, there is an election going on in italy as we speak. andegards the constitution change of government. i am wondering if that is one of the countries that trump has investments in and how it will affect not only u.s. relationships but the european relationships. host: this headline from "the washington post," today's referendum on constitutional changes that could impact the italian prime minister and that country reckoning with populism. howt: we are talking about this is possibly one of the dominoes that goes down in terms of the existing liberal, international order, relations, and also russian influence in europe. i think all of these elections, referendum, whether they [indiscernible] now, iay europe is going think it is a critical moment in european history. the: you said that unexpected president-elect has threatened to tear up the achievement of the obama administration. past years deal to curb iran's nuclear deal program, trump called disastrous. in response, iran's supreme leader said the u.s. tore up the agreement, iran would "set it on fire." theme of the term campaign was a foreign policy that on his personality. he would bring his health fontan skills as a businessman to get bilateral deals with other world leaders, particular thought the crops." guest: it is the complete refusal to make any criticism of moscow and what russia is doing in ukraine and what russia is doing in syria. no one i talked to figure this out, why was that for him the third rail where you could not go there or criticize russia? even though there's no reason to think it would cost him support among u.s. electorate and it would have reassured traditional, conservative, republicans, and to me, that is . mystery russia is all most untouchable. the campaign was going on when people were being slaughtered in aleppo. there is no doubt that the annexation of crimea was a violation of the national law and he would not go there. for me, that is maybe the number one big mystery about trump. host: we like to spend time in history, so we go to the late 1940's, when president harry truman signed a native agreement, a direct aftermath of world war ii and here's what happened. [video clip] ♪ us, war is not inevitable . we do not believe that there are blind sides of history, which change men one way or the other. we think brave men will overcome obstacles insurmountable and courses that seem overwhelming. men with visions can determine our own destiny. they can choose slavery or freedom, war or peace. i have no doubt which they will choose. the treaty week sign here today are evident of the path they will follow. if there is anything inevitable in the future, it is the will of the people of the world for our and host: our peace. from 1949, president harry truman signing the nato known as nato. my question, what is the future of nato? guest: very good question that people are asking in europe. there should have been a nato summit this winter, which has been fulfilled because of is basically the one who will answer it. remember article five of nato, if one country is going to be attacked, everyone is going to be attacked. everyone is defending that country. this is the principle of nato. balticr words, the states, for example, will be under threat and everybody will stand up and defend them against for instant -- against vladimir putin, for instance. what does it mean for the baltic states and states like georgia and other countries, who feel under threats by bodmer put in? -- vladimir putin? trump said he would be willing to pull out of nato and i had the pleasure of spending a day with terms new national security advisor. he was lowering the water and said we are not considering of pulling out of nato, but we want other countries to have more responsibility and spend more money on the military budget, so i think there will be tough negotiation in the upcoming months. increasing the military budget on one hand and the overall question of how to deal with is in and it trump solidarity with the nato states against russia or breaking up that solidarity? guest: [indiscernible] in eastern europe, when he hired general mattis for his defense. he lives and breathes nato, the alliance an article five. is unorthodoxe general from that point of view. i think that has come as reassurance to europe, eastern europe, but there are decisions that have to be made. will the u.s. go ahead with the position of the battalion in poland, which is very important in reassuring poland and the eastern europe that u.s. is capable of keeping skin in the game and will put their troops on that eastern border. every sense that that the new administration takes will be more in thehed and baltics than anywhere because this may not come in terms of what to does next -- what putin doesnext -- went putin next door at reporters, it may come stealthily, a hybrid war of small interventions involved in politics, and the u.s. election reaction, the nato reaction will be scrutinized to see how he --ponds to what p doesutin putin does. host: how important is the secretary of state that? guest: very important, whether they are interested with sticking with treaties, multilateral agreements, who he picks for that job will be an incredibly important signal and western european capitals are really holding their breath right now to see who it will be. a watershednk it is coming up rudy giuliani on one hand or david petraeus on the other hand, i think dealing with whoone like rudy giuliani, is even more progressive the donald trump appears to be, that would be hard for many europeans. if you deal with someone like mitt romney and petraeus, that would be a different game, irrational, and you could start developing step-by-step. reporting that" jon huntsman, former utah governor and former presidential candidate, no also in the running. again, i think it is a watershed moment for donald trump. they would be interesting fix. i don't know how he is that foreign politics, but he would be an unwritten guy for the europeans, definitely. host: holger stark and julian borger, their work available online. we have another 10 minutes to 15 minutes and what to expect with the u.s.-european in the trump administration. good morning. please, turn the volume down and go ahead with your question. caller: i have a lot of questions. host: we will take them one at that time, but turn the volume down. there is a delay. caller: all right. host: [laughter] your question. caller: we have all these countries saying that mr. trump and i not be president, do not know if he should or should not be. but iile, i voted, definitely have an internal question for the united states. the question is we have to rebuild america, they are trying whatve ships come in here, countries have charge them 10 toes more to ship them out go to the country? host: that goes to the trade issue from earlier. guest: the thing about globalization is if you cut off trade with other nations to protect domestic industry, you will find that those nations will retaliate and stop buying your goods, so industries that built for exports will collapse in their turn and they will collapse much faster than possible to build up industries for domestic markets, so the retreat into trade isolation would be catastrophic for economy, like the u.k. the u.s. economy, which for has been dovetailed with the global economy, so although it is satisfying to say, let's from other countries so our domestic industry can bounce back, the impact of other countries retaliating would be devastating. host: how different to the european union look in five years? guest: very good question. you could earn a lot of money if you would let on that -- bet on that. two the questions, or europe, how close with the european union stay together as the union of solidarity of states? that is one question about france, or france pullout as the next one, yes or no? and second question, how strong will the european union be, given that the united states is withdrawing and pulling out of many conflicts, and from is , so if america is no longer the policeman of the world, there is the need for someone to step up and that role could be something europe has to take over. probably, the different states in the european union will have to invest more in military budgets but also diplomatic solutions, but that could empower them on the other hand. and then clear situation. host: let's go to nikki in pennsylvania, republican line. caller: good morning. they were talking about trump and all his companies, hotels and that. presidents are allowed to have businesses before -- this is not unconstitutional. he doesn't even have to walk away from his businesses. i don't know how many kids he has, and he is allowed to have children and pass it on to them. i don't know what the piece is about a menu made his own money without getting handouts by moveon.org or whatever the republican side is. thet: every president since 1970's has split their wealth into a blind trust, which or howees you don't know the decisions you make us president of the united states affect your own personal wealth because it is wind and you don't know or your money is. so this pressure on donald trump to do the same thing, not just to give it to his children, because obviously what is good for his children, he may see as good for himself and his family and that would be a conflict of interest. from thet is important point of view from a chief executive of the country that the only interest that is in his interest.e national if you own companies around the world, to completely separate your own personal interest in the decision to make from the national interest, so every previous president in the modern era has put their money into a blind trust and there is good reason to argue why he should follow suit. host: kelly in rome, georgia, independent line. good morning. are you with us? we will go on to john from lowell, massachusetts. good morning. caller: good morning, gentlemen. i want to put this out there that we should consider, giving donald trump breathing room. wait not even in office, until st. patrick's day to pick on the guy. like the ask how they food in america? guest: [laughter] the burgers are great and a lot of other dishes, but honestly, we cannot [indiscernible] i agree that he needs some breathing room. we will see where this goes, but so far, he did not retreat really. he is still coming up with proposals by people who are demonstrators that are burning the flag, going to jail, so he really needs to show that he is getting more mature and filling out the shoes in the white house. host: will we see more financial assistance to native from european nations? and threatsampaign on nato could be the kind of threats necessary to make european nations, who most of them have not been paying a share in gdp that they said they would put into the fence, they agreed to do it in the nato summit in wales, and some have done it. only a couple of european countries have done it. , donald trump as a point. at agreements that were made nato summit have not been fulfilled by the european side, be this cabinet of trump may the pressure the european states need to fulfill that commitment, anxiety iss caused playing,t, not just in but explicit threat that the u.s. might not come to the defense of the countries because they have not paid their way. to europe, that sounds like protection. host: what is the biggest concern in europe with at least friendly words that president-elect trump has had about vladimir putin in the past? thet: vladimir putin is elephant in the european room. he is undermining a lot of liberal democracies, spending a lot of money undermining the process when it comes to the election. i think the biggest fear at the and to have two autocrats who are running a nationalistic campaign on both sides of europe and the united states on one hand and russia on the other hand, that they tried to bridge -- build a bridge between them and europe is left behind, the greatest fear. guest: heat miscalculates, sees european weakness, sees america changing direction, and he makes a grab to expand russian influence in what he calls [indiscernible] if the miscalculates or is widehes, there opportunity for there to be a miscalculation for there to be an incident that spirals under control. that, for me, is the greatest fear, the uncertainty about east and west and where they stand putin's ambitions and the possibility he may miscalculate. host: i realize that did not give equal time on that last caller -- equals food. ribs and my son agrees. host: on that note, holger stark and julian borger, thank you for being with us. fascinating hour. safe travels back to your home country of germany. we are back tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern, 4:00 am on the west coast. we will talk about what this next in the minority put democrats on the capitol hill. former ambassador will talk thet isis and attacks in u.s. and middle east relations with the new president coming in, and liz farmer, staff reporter for "governing" magazine, focusing on federal funds to support city budgets, tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. on "the washington journal." thank you for being with us. enjoy the rest of your weekend. cap the great week ahead. reminder that the house is in session. live coverage on c-span. have a great day. ♪ [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] withxt, "newsmakers," virginia representative bob democrat john conyers, the chair and ranking member of the house judiciary committee. then, donald trumps victory tour cincinnati, and then raul castro speaking at fidel castro's memorial service. john kerry will speak at the bookings institution's annual saban forum live at 1:00 p.m. eastern. "newsmakers" is glad to have virginia's bob goodlatte and , whogan's john conyers created a bipartisan and legislative working group on issues around communities in the country who are experiencing issues with police force and police response, prevalent in our society the last couple of years. let me introduce the reporters will be asking questions. kimbriell kelly of the "washington post." jesse holland of the associated dress.

Related Keywords

Alabama , United States , Syria , Kansas City , Kansas , Connecticut , West Virginia , Mexico , Arizona , Netherlands , Massachusetts , Iowa , Poland , Spain , Baltimore , Maryland , Moscow , Moskva , Russia , Canada , Japan , Germany , Missouri , Washington , Indiana , Virginia , Michigan , Cincinnati , Ohio , London , City Of , United Kingdom , Iraq , New Jersey , Tempe , Saudi Arabia , Capitol Hill , District Of Columbia , France , Vermont , China , Minnesota , California , Austria , Aleppo , Lab , Ukraine , Rome , Lazio , Italy , South Carolina , South Korea , Cuba , New York , Georgia , Philippines , New Hampshire , Tampa , Florida , American University , North Carolina , Texas , Iran , Kentucky , Illinois , Wisconsin , Taiwan , Maine , Tennessee , Phoenix , Fairfax County , Pennsylvania , Orlando , Utah , Berlin , Italian , Americans , America , South Koreans , Germans , British , American , Chinese , Russian , Saudis , Britain , German , Theresa May , Jon Huntsman , Jill Stein , Joe Biden , Barry Goldwater , Bush Gore , George Bush , Vladimir Putin , John Conyers , Bush V Gore , Harry Truman , John Kerry , John Quincy Adams , David Petraeus , Nigel Farage , Baltic States , Melissa Yeager , Mitt Romney , Al Qaeda , Loretta Sanchez , Hank Paulson , Al Gore , Bernie Sanders , Angela Merkel , George Soros , Katherine Harris , Bob Goodlatte , Spiegel Holger , Benjamin George W Bush , Gary Walters , Carl Hayden , Raul Castro , Barack Obama , George W Bush , Jesse Holland , Julian Borger , Rutherford B Hayes , Rudy Giuliani , Hillary Clinton , Ben Cardin ,