Transcripts For CSPAN Washington Journal 20140713 : comparem

this week filing a lawsuit against the president for his use of executive orders. have relations between the white house and congressional republicans reached a new low? that is our question. our phone lines are open at (202) 585-3880, our line for democrats. for) 585-3881, our line republicans, and if you are independent, (202) 585-3882. join us on social media, send us an e-mail, [email protected] or send us a tweet @cspanwj . good sunday morning. above the fold in the "new york times," the news from afghanistan secretary of state john kerry brokering a deal to audit the afghan votes. this comes 12 hours of often tense negotiations, the secretary of state announcing yesterday that afghanistan would audit all 8 million votes. host: we will have more with shane harris on the situation in afghanistan. also the latest calming raids by hamas and israel and the israeli army indicating it is prepared to send boots on the ground as early as today or tomorrow. let's been with another headline this morning from the mes," theon ti president unloading on house republicans and they plan to sue him for executive overreach, calling the move a political stunt and waste of time and money. his weekly address, the president tried to paint republicans as detached from reality, attending to pick americans from gop leaders such as detour john boehner. the speaker unveiled his plans to file that lawsuit against the president. here is speaker boehner on wednesday. [video clip] wife let me make this clear -- this is not about me suing the president. it is not about republicans versus democrats. this is about the legislative that is being disadvantaged by the executive branch. not about executive actions. every president does executive orders. most of them, though, do them within the law. what we are talking about are places where the president is basically rewriting law to make it fit his own needs. you will know more about this next week and the following week as we continue to move this issue forward. the comments of house speaker john boehner. and the president responding to the weekly address -- our question, have relations reached a new low? democratic speaker nancy pelosi of california says this lawsuit is just another diversion from house republicans desperate to distract americans from their own spectacular dysfunction. more of your calls and comments in just a moment, but first, a look at the other sunday morning programs, all of which can be heard on c-span radio, and with that, nancy calo. nancy, good morning. >> good morning, steve. some of the topics on talk shows include immigration reform and the unaccompanied children crossing the u.s. southern border, the violence in the middle east, and politics. you can hear rebroadcast of the programs on c-span radio beginning today at noon eastern with nbc's "meet the press." indict, former -- and congressmen the walking castro, a texas democrat. i'd 1:00, your abc's "this week." today's guest asked attorney general eric holder. at 2:00 p.m., fox news sunday, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, representative mike michael mccaul, texas governor rick perry. p.m., johnblood mccain and benjamin netanyahu. face the nation from cvs and another appearance from benjamin netanyahu and rick perry. tv talk showswork are on c-span radio and there brought to you as a public service for by the networks and c-span. again, a real rugrats of the shows begins at noon eastern with nbc's "meet the press," nation,"s "face the fox's "state of the -- nationwide on x and satellite radio, channel 120 both of you can download our free out for your smartphone or go online to c-span.org. host: of course you can also follow c-span on twitter @cspanw. marsha blackburn with this tweet last week on a lawsuit filed by house republicans -- the constitution is clear. the president must faithfully execute the laws but only the legislative branch has the power to make the laws will stop michael hasn't this tweet saying -- the relationship between the white house and congress will only get worse as obama tries to remain relevant. then from the "washington post," there is this from eric blake -- pleasantly,ne speaker banner is not and will never be on board with impeachment because he knows it is bad politics in an election year, as we have discovered before. that puts them in a somewhat awkward position of having to potentially tap down impeachment talk as nancy pelosi did back in 2006, but unlike with below see in today's gop, that could that thinks the gop establishment is too soft on obama. the lawsuit should help speaker banner thread that needle. there might be a lot of conservatives who view impeachment of the rope play, everyone thinks suing obama is a half measure, but it is much harder to accuse banner of being soft on obama when he is currently bringing the guy to court. that is no small thing. that is this morning from aaron blake in the "washington post." good morning. welcome to the program. caller: hi. thank you very much and of course thank you for c-span. the refugee stories a big topic, and immigrants, people who come near that or whatever, undocumented, but what a lot of americans do not realize is these children, wherever they are coming from, some of them are under great danger. i just read a story of a girl -- i do not want to go into details too much, it is very graphic, but they did very bad things to her. she is 11 years old. they are coming here because they are refugees. host: sarah, thank you for the call. this is the cover of "cq weekly" , what'sin crisis driving tens of thousands of children to risk their lives and cross the border. we have john next from new york. good morning, john. caller: good morning. well, i would like to say good morning, but we have a definite lack of statesman. a statesman is somewhat a group with their party behind what is best for the country. right now we have about 537 in washington, d.c. who will say what is best for my party to get what is best for the american people. i digress a little bit to the previous caller. about these children coming across the border -- i have several hundred thousand relatives serving in the military, many of them previous wars, needed medical care, they served their country. until we make sure that they all have a roof over their heads, their medical needs taken care sicknd all of the they basicrights, i do not -- human rights a lot of think we should bring in a single immigrant. host: thank you. only go back to the piece in "cq weekly." host: let's go next to george shimizu, kentucky, democrat line. good morning to you, george. caller: good morning. host: what about this relationship or maybe lack thereof between president obama and house republicans? caller: it is ridiculous to think that taxpayers are going to pay for a lawsuit. it is merely a stun. i mean, the final nail in the sarah palin once in beachwood. they should follow her. host: john from houston, texas, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you. because -- well, first off, the major location for founding our country, even though they call themselves the tea party, actually began in revolutionaryin america because that is where people meet to discuss the issues of the day. you don't get a lot of talk like that in taverns. taverns are totally different. if any of your viewers felt that it was time for -- i, self a coffeehouse up a bill -- to draw of laws for the republican leadership because they have done so many things that are stalling the american taxpayer from getting their money's worth. host: john, thank you for the call from houston. barbara sent in this tweet -- republicans think it is their job to foil the president and hold this administration hostage. if republicans would do their jobs, executive orders would be less. harry reid sent out this tweet -- the president is doing something to solve problems and republicans are suing you because they want to do nothing. that is just sad. matt lewis, who is a contributing editor for the "week" magazine, he is also a conservative blogger, says the president's promise of executive action is bad news even for supporters of immigration reform, and that includes me. even though i support immigration reform, i support the separation of powers even more, and this president has gone too far inflicting his executive order muscles. that is why matt lewis says i'm a plodding speaker baiters decision to sue over obama's executive orders, and you should, too, no matter which party you are in. the principle behind the push is dead on apple's app can read the full essay online at thee week.com. here's more from the president .ho was on the road [video clip] >> the truth is with all the actions taken this year, i am issuing executive orders at the lowest rate of more than 100 years, so it is not clear, you know, how it is that republicans -- resident bush took more executive actions than i did. maybe it is just me they don't like. i don't know. maybe there is some principle out there that i have not discerned. that i have not figured out. you hear some of them. all right -- sue him, impeach him! really? [laughter] [applause] really? for what? you are going to sue me for doing my job? ok. i mean, think about that. sue me for doing my job. while you don't do your job. host: that was the president this last week. he was in texas. before that, and colorado as he took aim at house republicans. inside the "washington post" is a look at past presidents facing to 9062 dating back with john f. kennedy and morrison with presidents clinton and reagan and of course bush v. gore. sebastian pain points out host: university full essay online at washingtonpost.com. in a minute line, don -- independent line, dawn is next. be ar: i used to republican, and i just changed to independent because i do not understand because my party is wasting taxpayer dollars suing obama and won't pass one bill. host: ronald from louisiana, democrat line. good morning. yes, why can boehner host 54 or so votes on the affordable care act, but he won't bring one bill to the floor and says that it won't , to block anything be american people need? host: ok, let's go next to joe joining us this morning from south carolina. joe, good morning. morninghey, steve, good to you. i want to say something about the lawsuit and also since you're talking about executive order. a lot has been said about bush, and of course i'm independent, a lot has been said about was using more executive order's or action that obama, and that is true, but i've not done the research, so somebody can do it. i wonder how many were used to current law on the books as opposed to obama. that is a key issue with regards to executive orders. now the lawsuit with boehner, there is a big downside to this lawsuit, and that is if a judge dismisses the suit as frivolous or it has no grounds, that empowers the president even more. he then can go to the podium and say see, i can do whatever i want with my pen and phone. do you see what i am saying? host: thank you for the call, joe. this is what the house resolution, which was introduced last thursday, looks like, as house republicans proceed on a lawsuit against the president, and from the president's hometown newspaper the "chicago "let's gethat says this straight, john boehner, the republican speaker of the house of representatives whose party wants to repeal obamacare plans to sue the president for failing to fully implement obamacare. the president who did everything he could to push the measure through congress refuses to enforce provisions that he signed into law. who declared it opposite day in washington? next we will be seeing the tea party demanding higher taxes and nancy pelosi joining the national rifle association. there are other rich ironies in seeming spectacle. if congress thinks the president is running amok, it has plenty of ways to rein him in. they can pass legislation overruling him, it can hold funding for this or other priorities, it can even impeach him and remove him from of fice, an option speaker boehner has rejected." let's go next to bill joining us from virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. whyn't understand how and john boehner wants to sue the president of the united states. three -- president obama cannot do this by himself. do,an only do what he can and if he did not sign those executive orders, where were the be becauseople john boehner refused -- mitch mcconnell has done more harm to hurt america than he has two help america. host: thank you for the call. we go to mike in north carolina, republican line. good morning, mike. caller: good morning, how are you? host: fine, thank you, how are you? caller: i am ok i guess. i do not know if the president or i do not know if speaker boehner has legal standing constitutionally to sue the president. method or the mechanism that the constitution and our founding fathers allowed for, there were bmps may, but obviously with a democratic-controlled senate, that is not possible, or at least a conviction. they could impeach, but whatever. for those people who do not think this is frivolous or they take the president at his word that this is a stunt and it is another fabricated scandal or whatever, they are not paying attention, and they are not paying attention to the 11 or 12 supreme court rulings over the last few years, many if not all of them unanimous meeting the justices on the supreme court sided with the .ive conservatives basically for lack of a better term slapping down president obama, and the most recent what the hobby lobby ruling, but right before that it was the recess appointments for the national labor relations board. before that it was the epa. this goes on and on and on. visible a clear and overreach by the president of the united states on his powers, and the supreme court has made those rulings. like i said, many of them have been unanimous. so there is a basis here for what speaker boehner is doing. that is my two cents. host: mike, thank you for the call. richardson dennis tweet -- -- richard sent in this tweet -- speaker banner, the house gop is at seven bring percent favorability, you are part of the least productive hours ever. impeach yourself, sir. many of you weighing in at the republicans and republicans -- have a reached a new low? intrinsic ideological ideas are a root cause of the problem, and stephen mcduffie says people are sick of government. and he is joining us, houston, texas, independent line. hope i get to talk this time because you have a talk about my favorite subjects in you keep hanging up on me and c-span is not right. they ask you what you want to talk about, and it is this -- and if it is something they do not want to to say, they do not want those of us who live on the bar to talk about this, so-called people talking like that. i got through three or four times and they kept hanging up on me. host: you are on the air, so make your point. caller: this morning i'm going to talk. first off, all these bleeding hearts, i don't care about them. they are stupid. i think the people should sue obama and i think he should be impeached. let them bleeding hearts tell themselves these illegals, give they took my grandson and blinded him at his school because they are nothing by gang members. here in texas, they run the schools here in texas. they run the police department, they run everything here, they run the news stations, so that means they get to do whatever they want, and they will not arrest these people. there is a fellow who jumped on my grandson, and the police would not do anything. they had their own the police department. these people are not coming here for no good reason, and whenever americans stand up and filed her own lawsuit, it is not going to stop until then. springing for no refugees, it is not happening. my next-door neighbor is from honduras, my grandson talk to him last night about any says his family has nothing -- none of them come here and buy a home from them or nothing, but all of the people in america are losing their homes. obama is making american people pay for their own medical care. host: annie, thank you for the call from houston, texas. bill has this one are twitter page -- speaker banner is the self implosion of the republican party. , mr. speaker." dramatic pictures as more than 140,000 minority muslims have been forced to live in camps where disease and despair have taken root. this is a story that has been percolating over the last couple of muscles up the pictures and full story inside "time magazine." we are focusing on the president and congressional publican. have relations now that house republicans have filed a lawsuit reached a new low with the president? responding to all of this on the campaign trail as he was raising money for house and senate democrats in dallas, austin, and denver, colorado this week, mario is joining us from east metals, new york -- from new york. the lawsuit, believe it or not, i think it might be a good thing because it goes against the president and democrats, he is not really showing up on the whether you are a republican, democrat, white, black, he is just not showing up and doing his job. if that is what they have to do to make him do his job and engage him -- look, he does not even speak to his own democrats. anybody to camp david. he does not talk to democrats, he does not talk to republicans, he does not talk to anybody, so maybe a lawsuit, bring them into court. at least he has to show up someplace. there is something wrong with the way he has been acting since his reelection, so i think it is good that they're going to sue him. maybe they can get him to sit down and get some answers from him. i think he is doing a horrible job. host: we go next to our independent line from new jersey, good morning, vaughn. caller: i have an interesting observation about the president and congress. it just seems like since obama was elected, it seems like a new type of republican party came up in response to that. the tea party in particular. it seems like they do not want to do anything, they fault him at every step. it just seems different. it is not like republican david past when clinton was in power. it is different, like a more -- theyreactionary oppose this president more, and it seemed like it is a reaction to him being elected, and it seems like -- he tries to work with the congress. i believe he does try to work with them. president is reasonable and he is trying to work with congress, but they do not want to work with him or give him credit or anything for any little victory you might have. they did not want to give it to him whether it be this immigration crisis, the epa, obamacare, anything. it is not want to work with him. i can see why they're trying to go around him. around them. one more thing, i am curious to see if hillary is elected, i want to see how this bitter, violent tea party reaction is still in power when she -- if she wins. i have a feeling it is going to go back to being the regular, normal republican party when she is elected. the tea party is going to disappear and the normal republicans will pop their heads again. i am curious what will happen if she gets elected. host: thank you for the call. immigration is the subject of our conversation with representative raul grijalva who joins us on "newsmakers" following the "washington journal." of republican colleague texas says the white house is recycling some of the same explanations offered by president bush after hurricane katrina. over questions on why the president has not yet visited the texas border. he posed that question to congressman grijalva. here is what he had to say. [video clip] >> the borderlands in and of itself is a complex issue. that is where the issues of enforcement, the humanitarian crisis that we are concerning now, the economic issues that are going on, and the gateways from latin america into this country. believe the president needs to deal with that reality. it is one thing to sit and get information about the policies should be and should not be. it is another thing to touch business folks, to talk to groups that are working with immigrants, to be there to talk to the men and women of border patrol and homeland security and to get a deeper sense. bet reality i think would important, but the symbolism would be also very important, that it is a priority, that this region of our country needs this attention, and a presidential visit would give that. host: the full interview airs after the "washington journal" at 10:00 eastern time. he cochair of the progressive caucus, the democrat from arizona. back to your calls on the issue of relations between the president and congressional republicans will stop have those relations reached a new low? eric from cedar town, georgia, democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning, steve. steve, i want to give you an example to why it has reached a new low if you can look at it in a reasonable way. listen to what i am saying, steve. for the democratic congress, they were together, why, because he was our speaker. it is not have no quarrels. they worked together with this man. they put everything ronald reagan wanted on the floor within the first six months of his presidency. nancy pelosi also worked with george bush during these wars. they did not cut off money, they did not shut down government, they did not do any of this. ronald reagan raise the debt ceiling 13 times. he raised taxes seven out of eight years he was in office. he was not impeached. he was not sued. because he had a congress that was hours with him. all of this against president obama -- bill clinton also. everything that newt gingrich and them did, different from what obama is doing, he is trying to clean up the mess. host: thanks very much for the call. this is a photograph that got a lot of attention. the president shooting pool with the governor of colorado. hickenlooper takes over as the head of the nga. independent line from houston. good morning. caller: good morning. i think the lawsuit is possibly not a wise move. i think i am concerned about the lack of understanding of the separation of powers. as far as barack obama's executive orders, it is not the number, but the intrusiveness on the power separating of the orders that he gives. they are much more expansive than presidents in the past. that is a real concern. furthermore, congress does not exist to rubberstamp the president's wishlist. host: thanks for the call. bill has this tweet. eliza carney is writing about money and politics and points out that in kentucky, this year's senate race will reach a new record high of $100 million. in mississippi, more than 200 conservative groups spending $11 million. the piece is called "midterm spending spree." campaign spending is increasingly unfettered. democrat line. good morning. oklahoma. caller: good morning. host: good morning, doug. theler: the lady before said congress is to watch the to watch the -- president and make sure he is doing his job. they are there to legislate, first of all. it always goes back to the tea party. back to all of this birther stuff and putting pictures of the president looking like a i don't know what. it is another stunt. led congress to keep from putting votes up. it is a complete joke. they are there to legislate. host: ok. doug from oklahoma. front page of the "pittsburgh post-." t." collecting -- selecting .home nd as the chris christie paul -- criticizing u.s. policy in the middle east. despite an upcoming trip to iowa, he is not yet prepared to launch a white house bid. he called on fellow republicans to come up with an alternative to obamacare. he said that president obama does not stand up for israel. he will be in davenport, iowa this thursday evening. you can also listen to him on c-span radio. we will be streaming it on c-span.org. front page of the "detroit free press." the city tries to turn things around in a very troubled downtown detroit. tyrone is joining us from philadelphia. want the american people to think of one thing. you about a lawsuit against the president. but still, under the law, we do nothing to wall street. that is amazing that we can talk about how we want to do a lawsuit against the president, however, your economics have went down the almost zero for the people. host: thad is joining us from rhode island. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i got a phone call from someone from the tea party the other night and they were talking ,bout impeaching the president which i think is totally impractical. so, i said, we have all seen bad marriages am a one husband and wife do not get along and they get a divorce. we have seen instances where one spouse murders another. translating that to national politics, i believe we have two separate nations here living between the oceans. know, iid to her, you think the conservatives should have their own nation and the liberals should have their own nation because i'm afraid that if that doesn't happen, we could end up with a civil war. host: thanks for the call. going to the republican line. caller: good morning. i have heard several comments about the tea party. describing it as violent. that is not justified. it is nonviolent. check the record. the president's relationship with the congress, he had both houses when he took office. they completely shut the republicans out of the dialogue on everything. there were closed-door sessions about transparency. it was ridiculous what was going on. the president has no personal relationships with anyone outside of his inner circle. he appoints the czars. he does not even work with his own party in the congress. why does anybody think he would work with the republicans? his obstructionism from the republicans was the mandate given to them when they were sent to washington after the elections in 2010. about theme ask you other idea that has been discussed led by sarah palin, impeaching the president. ifler: technically speaking, people would check their history, they would see that the things president obama has done, the case for impeachment is at least as strong as the case against president nixon, at the time. there is so much more evidence for building a case for impeachment, however, i don't think it's the appropriate move right now. he can say whatever he wants and do whatever he wants in the media is still his lapdog. host: thanks for the call. speaker john boehner. here is more with speaker john boehner from ohio last thursday. [video clip] >> do you agree with senator lindsey graham that if republicans do not go ahead and approve this funding, we are going to get blamed for perpetuating the problem? do you think you have to approve it? >> listen, this is a problem of the president's on making. we have had a president for 5.5 years. when is he going to take responsibility for something? >> a very angry speaker boehner on another issue that continues to percolate, the issue along the border. for thenomic troubles seaside resort area of atlantic city. trump plaza will be closing down in september. to thefour jobs related casino industry will be lost. the impact on other casinos popping up in maryland and pennsylvania and other areas of new york and connecticut. the impact it has on governor chris christie. kingsport, tennessee. good morning. caller: good morning. about sick of this stuff going on in washington dc. i'm thinking that they need to sue both parties. the simple fact is neither one of them are doing their job. the american people need to throw them out and start all over. host: thanks for a much for the call. dianne from red bank, new jersey. caller: good morning. i agree with the previous caller. i think the people in washington actually believe that the american people are not paying attention and we are stupid. that is the worst thing they could possibly think. we vote them into office. i'm a nurse. if you hire me and i screw up, you are going to fire me. nobody is accountable. nobody is responsible. the president talks about it for a second and then it goes away. phony scandals. hillary lying about benghazi. anybody in washington -- do they think we are not paying attention? -- thisng on the border thing on the border, you've got to be kidding me. .t is a free ticket to come in how about the people in our country they cannot get anything? you cannot get any help you read you work for 50 years and that you get what, $700 per month? and you get thrown out of your home because you cannot afford it? we love this country. when he said he was substantively going to change this country, he was not kidding. when a book gets thrown off a shelf because it is anti-obama policy, this is america. ok? that is all i have to say. i won't washington to know. we are paying attention. when 2014 comes around, there is going to be a big surprise. think for taking my call. host: who is going to win in 2014? i hope most of the republicans that i like. i like ted cruz, chris mcdaniel, i wish he would have one. host: do you think the republicans will get the senate? caller: i pray the republicans will get the white house. host: that is 2016. caller: i know. but it is a lead up. thank you. host: writing about the former first lady and secretary of state and oakland. -- bill clinton. "isn't it rich? " despite a tough role as the go-between in the highly public relationship of her parents, chelsea clinton stayed classy. it is strange to see her acting out by cashing in to help feed clinton.g maw of alexandria, virginia. independent line. caller: good morning. thank you ever so kindly. i'm calling relative to the issue of the last vestige of hope in america. and the american civil liberties union. -- c-spanly hosted firm in hosted a law washington dc. arthur spritzer. the chief legal counsel of the american civil liberties union. arnold and porter. facing major lawsuits. spritzer, torthur have allowed arnold porter to sit -- host him on the supreme and c-span allowing it and they spoke with one of your producers and with your c-span director, it seems to me that this last vestige of hope is gone. host: i want to ask you a favor. when you get through the next time, turn the volume down. that was an event that we hosted. we cover events around this town all the time that are hosted and sponsored by different organizations, whether it is a law firm or heritage foundation or the center for american progress and we put those events on, as we have for the last 35 years. it is not an event that we particularly hosted, but we put it on the air, as is our mission. we let you make up your own conclusion. thanks for the call. want to make sure we clarify that one point. congress going prime time. you may have noticed a number of hearings taking place prime time in the evening. the hill newspaper saying there is a new trend, contentious cap -- committee hearings in prime time. this year is the biggest prime time hearings schedule since 1995. approach.ike a new there are often hearings that go late, but these are unique because they start late. it is more noticeable than ever before. you can read the full story online at the hill.com. caller: good morning. i say good morning, not because i believe it is a good morning, but only because it was i was taught to be polite. saw a police officer straddle a black woman in the middle of the street and pummel her in the face and head with both fists. nothing has been done about it. not much is even been said about it. that is what i look at when i think about this president. everything he does is wrong and he can do no right and whatever goes wrong, he is blamed for, he is disrespected up and down. if he goes on the border, they are mad because he won't go. did they float across mexico? how did all those people get to the border? what is mexico's part in this? what about the other countries? when did we become police of the world? host: thanks for the call. anger is here.'s the president responding to all of this. here is more from the president in austin. [video clip] >> the best thing you can say about this congress, the republicans in congress and particularly the house of representatives, the best thing you can say for them is that so far they have not shut down the havenment or threaten to america welch on our obligations. only july,se, it is so who knows what they may cook up in the next few months? [laughter] even as they are blocking policies that would help middle-class families, they keep offering these theories of the economy that have failed over and over again. more tax if we give cuts to folks at the top, that will be good. if we loosen the rules for big banks and credit card companies, polluters and insurers, somehow that is coming to make the economy better. if we shrink the safety net and cut medicaid and cut food stamps and make sure that folks are a vulnerable and trying to get back on their feet suffer more hardship, somehow that is going to improve the economy. host: the president in austin, texas last thursday. all over video is available on our website. you can check out any time on c-span.org. towill turn our attention foreign policy in just a moment, joined by shane harris, talking about the very latest in israel and afghanistan. new developments over the last one to four hours. later, rock the vote will be joining us, new efforts to sign up the millennials to vote in november and 2016. you are watching and listening to c-span's "washington journal." we are back in a moment. >> baseball does strike me -- i don't want to get metaphysical to be the good sport national pastime of a democratic nation because democracy is about compromise and settle in. you do not get everything you want and baseball is like that. there was a lot of losing in baseball. into springhat goes training knows it is going to win 60 games and the lose 60 games. you work to sort out the middle 42. you win 89 games, you have a good chance to play in october. >> george well on his latest book on baseball and wrigley field and the recent controversy surrounding one of his columns. tonight at 8:00 eastern and pacific on c-span's " q&a."\ republicanism not demand -- be made fuzzy and futile. [applause] you thatemind extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. [applause] thank you. [applause] thank you. also thatind you moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. [applause] senator goldwater's acceptance speech at the 1964 republican national convention, this weekend on american history tv's "reel america." on c-span 3. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we want to turn our attention to foreign policy. horniness is shane harris, senior staff writer at "foreign policy magazine." me begin with a couple of headlines. from the "washington post." the afghan rivals agree to a recount. the "l.a. times." is reporting that ground troops are imminent. seems not to be taking place. israel's military is warning residents in the northern gaza strip to evacuate the neighborhood. this is all in advance of a planned strike in specific areas. there are about 40,000 israeli troops on the ground ready to move. guest: we saw an initial force going into northern gaza and cleaning out a facility they said was used for launching rockets from gaza. ground force going into gaza would be a first for prime minister netanyahu. the big question is, does this escalate? what is israel's long-term gain for doing this? most people doubt that they want a long-term occupation of gaza. this does create an opportunity for ground forces to go in there and seize weapons stock miles and put an end to the media rocket attacks. is saying that about 70% of the casualties in palestinian areas are the civilians. who is telling the truth? guest: it is hard to know. civilian casualties in a situation like this are inevitable. gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on the planet. these airstrikes are designed to hit hamas soldiers where they are hiding, in civilian areas. there may be shifting that is going on, that would not surprise me at all from hamas. a clean strike is just not plausible. in, it istroops go almost certain that there will be more bloodshed on the palestinian side. host: you can sense the anguish by the palestinian people. what is the endgame? guest: it is unknown at this point. there is no credible plan right now for a peace between the palestinian authority and the israelis. this is hamas launching these attacks. this is not the palestinian authority president. it is not the palestinian people doing this. a peaceful negotiated settlement between the palestinians and israelis is off the table right now. israel wants the rocket attacks to stop. there is a chance for ground troops to go into capture more weapons stockpiles. there is a blockade along the west. their access to egypt is cut off. any of the tunnel systems between egypt and gaza and into israel are being attacked. fore is an opportunity netanyahu to send forces in there to degrade the stock wilds to take away hamas' ability launch the strikes. that seems like more of a plausible and game. -- endgame. it seems like a more narrowly focused mission on hitting the weapon stockpiles. host: 40,000 troops. what would that look like? go in andy could potentially partition gaza into different sections to gain control of different hamas strongholds. go in and get the weapon stockpiles out of their. started calling up reserve forces, as well. there is precedent for this going back to 2008 and 2009. there was a ground incursion. that ended up with more than 1400 palestinians dead and widespread international condemnation of israel. what was seen as a very heavy-handed military adventure. netanyahu knows all that is on that -- and is undoubtedly weighing that into the calculation. host: can the u.s. help create a cease-fire? guest: no. the peace talks collapsed. has sent murky signals that it is willing to facilitate an outcome. it was not saying they're going to moderate one. we give everything that we had in the last round of peace negotiations between palestinian authority and israel. i don't see with the media role call for a cease-fire is in this. the german foreign minister is going to israel. i think this is about netanyahu's call at this point on the ground invasion. hamas does not have interest in ending this immediately either. there was a lot for them to gain in terms of their credibility and gaza and being seen as a strong force. host: the airstrikes continue to hammer the gaza strip area. you see some of these pictures from abc news.com. the question is the iron dome. it seems to be working most of the time. guest: right. it is not 100% foolproof. it did not quite live up to the hype. there have been no israeli fatalities from rocket fire directly. that may be one measure of success. it is not stopping all of the rockets from getting through. picture show another this morning. secretary of state john kerry traveling to kabul, afghanistan. brokering a deal. a full recount of the election. more rural and higher elevation areas. both sides say they will abide by the final ruling. diplomatic is a rare victory for the obama administration. secretary kerry in marathon talks brokering this deal between the two afghan presidential candidates among both of whom claim the victory. they were in the midst of a runoff. all will be recounted. international auditors will ensure that the count is done appropriately. the two candidates have agreed to abide by the outcome of that recount and immediately seek to form a unity government, a coalition government. this is an example of the obama making thison particular recount such a priority because absent the function of government in kabul, we are not going to have any government to sign a forces agreement with. -- what will the status be? we do not want a repeat of iraq. we had no status of forces agreement and we left entirely. theant to make sure resumption in government, so that the u.s. has a party for a signatory for our troops to have protections when they stay there in some number after we pull out. host: 12 hours of negotiations yesterday, 8 million ballots were cast, it will be a complete, 100% review of all of those ballots. the international auditors and the spotlight will be on them. we hope it will be thorough. that is not to say there will not be disputes. they are saying this will take a few weeks. has agreed toai suspend the date of the inauguration. the agreement is there and the infrastructure will be coming in. youcan imagine that all -- can imagine all kinds of things that could come in to gum up the works. it will be up to the two abide by the rules. the feelings are still quite wrong. -- raw. host: do you have a sense who will be the next president of afghanistan? guest: no. [laughter] they both say they have won. this point, i can't call american elections, so i can't to call the afghans. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. see in thed when i news what is going on in gaza. this has been going on for the last 65 years. this is too much. old, young, women, children. they are sitting in the house. this has nothing to do with hamas. what is the international community going to say no, no, no, no? it is all about the war. who is going to stop this? [indiscernible] host: thanks for the call. who is going to stop this? guest: it is a great question. it is grim. the u.n. called for an immediate cease-fire. i don't know if that is going to have much immediate effect. you have two fairly entrenched parties. israel cannot sustain or accept these kinds of rocket attacks. hamas' perspective, it is not clear what they're after. they can shown that chew rockets further than ever before. they are flexing their muscle. boca raton, florida. caller: good morning. if you will bear with me mr. the history here, back over 10,000 plo troops try to take over jordan and they were expelled to lebanon. they turned the paris of the middle east into an abatoir. wendy thousand muslims were killed in the town of -- 20,000 muslims were killed in the town of hama in one day. it boggles the mind. we just had a caller who basically is saying that the killing of 150 or so palestinians in gaza who are used as human shields by hamas, whose charter basically says kill all the jews no matter where they are and eradicate genocide,at becomes but in syria we have over 150,000 people dead and any number of refugees and not a word. not a word of humanitarian crisis and oh my word, how could all this be happening? what i am trying to get at is that when israel left lebanon and left their security, what did they get? they got rockets from hezbollah. with absolutely not one israeli left in gaza and handed over the greenhouses, the buildings, everything to hamas, which won the election, what did they get? they got rockets. is pointingollar out something of a discrepancy. we are focusing a lot on this problem. -- 1.i would take issue with the one point oh would take issue with is that it has not received attention. people would certainly like to see more attention on syria. we pay a lot of attention on this part of the world and we can lose what is happening in the neighboring world. no one has taken their eye off syria. there were's a lot of areas -- there are a lot of areas competing for attention in the world right now. let me ask you about europe. the german government has taken the extraordinary step of ordering the top u.s. intelligence official in the embassy of berlin to leave the country. it is a strong and rare official review giving the clear signal that tensions over u.s. spying are threatening the historically strong ties between the two allies. i know there have been some pretty direct words. andeen angela merkel president obama. what is going on? guest: that is the late -- latest chapter of the snowden fallout. when he started leaking secrets about our intelligence operations, it was revealed that we were collecting communications in germany and later that the nsa was spying, monitoring angela merkel's personal cell phone. against the backdrop of this, the president committed to no longer spying on chancellor merkel's cell phone. were spying on other elements of the german government. last week, a german employee was arrested charged with spying for the united states. the german say, what gives? why would you threaten to upset are very historically strong relationship? angela merkel said this is silly, why are we wasting our energy spying on each other? this is particularly embarrassing for the administration. after being caught, we find that we have planted these two malls in the heart of german in thegence -- moles heart of german intelligence. what is interesting to watch and merkel's response, she cannot the head of u.s. intelligence in germany. but this is the strongest response she can send. handled the scandal with pretty good moderation, trying to balance both the recognition that all countries by on each other, but having to look tough against the administration for doing it to an ally. now, she has to respond to people on the political left and in the public in germany, which is pretty outraged about this. not entirely an active theater, but it is a symbol to us and the people in germany as well. host: no plans for an official or state visit by the german chancellor to the u.s. what is it like, the relationship between these two leaders? guest: i think it is quite afraid. -- frayed. i think because it was so personal in the context of spying on her cell phone, her personal phone, i think now you have got to assume that the relations between her and the president are at a low point. before thea day latest arrest of this spy and this did not come up. host: we will go to key west, florida. democrat line. caller: hello. i would like to say only one thing. deaths per year per month, per week of palestinians and israelis. compare it. who should really be put on a trial? just think about it, everybody. have a great day. host: peter from key west, florida. ministerli prime benjamin netanyahu told cnn that his country and the gaza strip should be ready for all possibilities. which means what? guest: he means a ground war. a commitment of troops to go into gaza. area,ly partition that get hamas members out, get the weapons out. he is trying to signal to the israeli population that we may be in this and make it a lot tougher. also trying to warn people in gaza ahead of time of this. , particularly palestinians with foreign passports are getting out of the area. there is already and i said is going on. jordan is dealing with its own internal situation. jordans are traveling to and the pressure that is putting on jordan and its own internal, domestic political dispute. guest: absolutely. you have seen the isis fighters and jordan is in a precarious situation at this moment. porous.er with iraq is the threat of fighters coming from syria into iraq is threatening the government there, as well. america is trying to signal their reassurances to them. i do not much we can do. host: tim in alexandria, virginia. caller: hi. [indiscernible] me that the israelis should pull out and just leave. guest: jeffrey goldberg had a piece about this very issue in bloomberg view a couple of days ago, where he was making the point that israel may have been willing to pull out of those areas if hamas and the palestinians have not launch these attacks from gaza. caller illiterate to israel being ready to make major concessions years ago, but that seems tactically impossible at this point. hamas has crossed the line. that kind of outcome about possibly leaving the west bank seems fantastic. it would not happen. host: go into the issue of relations between the israeli prime minister and president obama. how would you describe that relationship? guest: chilly. distant. it has never been strong. we made a good-faith effort and try to broker the peace between israel and the palestinian authority. those talks collapsed. we have talked about facilitating some kind of peace settlement, but that is not in the offing anytime soon. they have never really gone to each other. -- wenot to say that we. do not have mutual shared interests, but at that senior level, it is not that strong. caller: hello. host: good morning. caller: good morning. i want to say one thing. palestinian people have a right to their whole country. it was created after world war ii. of thewas a created british mandate. there is no such thing as jordan. there is no such thing as israel. it is palestine. you sit there, mr. harris, you are guilty of war crimes against mankind. host: why do you say that? caller: that is the truth. i'm from palestine. i was born in jerusalem in 1947. the zionists that came into my country. [indiscernible] the passions are running strong. guest: they are. i think what the caller was getting at when we talk about borders, what we're seeing in all of these countries if you step back and take a panoramic view of what is happening, the borders are seeming more and more meaningless all the time. iraq, a country that was set up by the british 100 years ago along arbitrary lines, is to balding into three countries right now. from the perspective of u.s. foreign policy, it is probably one of most complicated and confusing moments we have found her self and in that region and a long time. it it's a multipolar, dynamic situation. it is something we have not seen in this context for generation. host: we go back to the power of these rockets by hamas. this is from the "washington post." that theyu a sense are much more sophisticated. you can see they're getting closer and closer as they move from gaza to the israeli territory. guest: this is worrisome, too, of the israelis government. these are believed to be provided by iran. there are a lot of hopes for the iron dome system. there have been no fatalities. what is also interesting is that we see the rockets hitting places are aiming at places they had not been before. in tel aviv. a flock -- if rockets were to fall in tel aviv and you had fatalities there, it would be all but certain that the israelis would launch a counterstrike with ground forces. they are already poised to do that. this gives you an idea of how much of a knife's edge things are sitting on right now because of these rocket attacks. host: takoma park, maryland. democrat line. caller: i don't even know where to start. i just want to say to the american people -- hello? host: go ahead. caller: if people really want to get the facts about what is going on in the middle east, the ,sraeli-palestinian conflict forget about the american media. they have already made up their mind. [indiscernible] he's taking the side -- she's not going to say anything contrary to -- [indiscernible] forget about that. you will look at the facts from him. host: did you want to respond. guest: no, i'm trying to do my job. the caller said, i don't know where to start. i find myself in the same position sometimes looking at this part of the world right now. it is extremely complicated. the american media has by and large done a tremendous job of trying to cover it and i am proud of the contribution we have made in that regard. host: we are talking with shane harris, a staffer of "foreign policy" magazine. he is the author of the book "the watchers." he is formerly a fellow at the new america foundation. your book on the issue of spying. this is a fascinating story that continues to unfold. guest: i wrote the book in 2010 and that the time we thought it was something of history. we have seen the history of surveillance and we're done with that chapter. four years later comes along edward snowden. remember a time in that entire last period of 15 years when there has been so much activity, whether it is nsa, cia ow that isgerman r erupting. it is very unusual that the u.s. spy agencies are out in the spotlight. it has been interesting trying to cover them. dealing with an infrastructure of bureaucracy that knows how to stay in the shadows a lot more now finding itself not being able to do that. they have had to be a lot more public and forward. host: let me go back to afghanistan. the meeting that took place this last week. the nato secretary general, the former danish prime minister. the secretary of state announcing a comprehensive audit of the disputed afghanistan election. ise guardian" is asking what the future of u.s. troops beyond this year? guest: both potential candidates have it -- have indicated that they will sign an agreement with to leave aboutes 10,000 troops in the nation to train and equip the afghan army and try to prevent the kind of resurgence of fundamental and terrorist groups, like what we have seen in iraq. that has been such a searing experience. isis is marauding through the country and taking over major cities. we don't want to allow the taliban and other forces to do similarly and take root in the country. as this election recount was going on for a while there, it was pretty clear to a lot of observers that if they did not settle that recounted if they did not choose the government and a leader, that was going to be a major win for the taliban. agreement is about trying to undercut any gains the taliban have been politically. it is tremendously important. it is going to play out over the next couple of weeks. this is a very positive first step. the israeli government confirming that ground troops are likely in gaza. annapolis, north carolina. caller: good morning. know, my brother is always telling me that our president is not doing enough to help israel. can you shed some light on that for me? much: the question is how is president obama doing to help the situation in israel. brokering a peaceful resolution in the middle east, working for nearly a year on this issue. find in talking to people about this past year of negotiations, both on the hill and some of the administration's critics, is that they gave it everything they had, but they felt that they were dealing with to bring -- two parties who had a deep loathing for one another. men who believe they do not have a credible partner in the other. it is a pretty hopeless situation. i think we did give it everything that we had. we gave it everything we had. we got nothing in return. i think this administration feels like it 100% of its effort. it is willing to try again, but i don't think there is any sentiment that they did not try. that is a fair assessment. had a chance to review or read hillary clinton's new book? have only read the reviews. i have no question up or down. host: name one major foreign-policy a complement -- accomplishment in her four years. hillary clinton's record seems to be that the word not necessarily -- maybe the number of major explosions and crises that there have been under secretary kerry, but i do think herwill have to explain how tenure as secretary of state was a success and what does she define those terms as? i don't think her critics are going to give her a pass on that why was security so lax in the first place? --ecord will be scrutinized her record will be scrutinized. caller: good morning, america. good afternoon here from manchester. i would like to ask your guest, i don't know how many external we are looking at in the situation from israel and palestine. do you think it would help if they did back off a little bit? gettingisrael right now to the tune of $3 billion in aid from america to keep their weapon systems in shape and we have hamas and also has a lot who areget -- hezbollah getting weapons from the black market and secret channels, whether it be iran and north korea as well. do you think there is too much intervention in this issue? it is a good question. i don't think you will any suspension of usaid to israel. -- u.s. aid to israel. pinched gaza is pretty at the moment. they are strapped for resources. they have not been able to put together a functioning government. they are a bit on the ropes. they have been able to stockpile these weapons. they have made major gains in that regard. i don't know if there is any international consensus for trying to cut off aid or anything like that. at this point, we are trying to get these people to stop firing at each other. that is the more immediate concern. the situation inside syria and the threat from isis. a security conference took place at the attorney general -- with the attorney general eric holder. [video clip] job is to try to anticipate the next attack, not simply react to the last one. we continually evaluate the world situation and we know that there remains a terrorist threat to the united states. aviation security is a large part of that. last week, i directed we step up fromviation security departure airports coming into the united states. this is not something to overreact to her over speculate about. it is something we felt was necessary. we do this from time to time. we ratchet it down from time to time. >> what about inside the country? >> we continually evaluate things. the screening we have domestically right now from one domestic airport to another is pretty robust. as the american traveling public knows. in this instance, we felt it was important to crank it up some at the last point of departure airports. >> we are adequately safeguarded? host: that was the homeland security secretary jeh johnson certainly not the attorney general eric holder. , and theght now secretary was alluding to this, the main thing that counterterrorism officials are worried about our threats of attack from the homeland, fighters ago to join isis become very highly trained and are very capable. what happened when they come back to the united states and get somewhere they can actually launch a to mastic leg? domestically? you have the threat that the isis forces pose in syria and iraq and then can export and in small numbers come back to the west to launch attacks here. been on the radar screen for counterterrorism officials even before isis' gains in iraq over the past couple of months. they have watched this group that is highly capable. it is a been an extreme four al qaeda. there has been a real palpable fear and concern and that is becoming more elevated. we are seeing them make swift gains across syria and iraq. host: let's hear from wayne in virginia. joining us on the independent line. caller: good morning, guys. guest: good morning. with they question is failing foreign policies of this , what does mr. harris foresee our foreign-policy looking like in two years? guest: thank you. interesting question. hopefully more coherent and easier to understand than it is now. in whichcing a world borders do not matter, especially in the middle east. we have an ongoing crisis in russia with ukraine. we are living in a multipolar, multidimensional world. it is straining the talents of this administration. it probably will the next as well. i don't know if there is much more that they could be doing. i don't make of my business to be a critique of the administration's foreign policy. the president has faced tremendous opposition in congress for a number of issues. secretary kerry is in vienna to try to broker an extension to the nuclear talks in iran. on capitolcontingent hill waiting to impose new sanctions on iran. they are taking this from multiple sides. dealing withma is crises abroad and a political system that is somewhat dysfunctional here. many are wondering if he can even make good on the relationships he is trying to forge overseas. host: will iraq remain one country or could you see it develop --divided? guest: i think it is heading toward the vision. defector, it is a divided country. what i have been impressed by is the number of very senior former u.s. officials who have actually been talking openly about what seems like the inevitability of an independent kurdish state in the north. david petraeus and hillary clinton were actually out in colorado a couple of weeks ago and really talking about that is something that seemed quite plausible. would you are heading for is probably a situation where isis and the fundamentalists groups have secure large sunni populations in the areas of the west come of the kurds in the north, and the central government in baghdad. dasher that becomes a in an official partition, we don't know. people can find me on twitter @shaneharris. caller: good morning, steve and guest. i have a silly thought that might be naïve. . >> i can't it wants to eventually see a two-state solution where both countries have things peacefully. hamas does not recognize israelt right to exist. you see the fundamental impasse. >> what seems to be dominating twitter is why is real retaliated against hamas. i will take it one step further. if hamas reportedly was involved in the killing, the brutal killing of three israeli teenagers, ones who -- one who had dual citizenship, why do they do that? >> it's a great question. hamas said they were not involved in that. they haven't condemned it either. what this tells me is if we are receipting the tea leaves here on this it's hard to speak of hamas as en one entity. presumably, there was a faction within hamas or extreme factions alive at the group that did this. but the leadership is not condemning it. seems like they are condoning it. it's not clear to me whether the political wing is in control of the military wing and certainly makmud abbas has no control over this. it was such a horrific -- the retaliation killing. from what i am reading in the israeli press and talking to people in that part of the world, when you are attacking children, when children are no longer safe, this is taking it even to a level of extremes perhaps that are, you know, extreme for the conflict that we have seen in recent years. i have no explanation for why they would do something like that and the retaliation has been severe. i don't know what hamas end game is in this. they are not going to achieve anything militarily. they are not going to be and presumably they know that. they are trying some kind of game to try to strengthen their own credibility perhaps in the eyes of gaza. they have not been an effective force for governing the territory. >> maybe this is what they see as their only last option and last resort, is extreme violence and standing up to israel. >> if from dayton, ohio, kate is on the line. caller: hi. dan who asked about gaza and n contig once land. come on. israel has spent all of this time making sure palestine is not contiguous. i am wondering about c-span and wonder why you put up these inaccurate maps. you don't show it cut up like swiss cheese because you of all of the illegal settlement. get some accurate maps and all our mainstream media should throw up actually accurate maps of what's really going on. and then, you know, our media s is, while it has opened up to discussing this issue in a more fair and balanced way, you know, they don't talk like we are talking about the root causes defendant children on the border and down, you know, from central america, but we don't get down to the root causes of this humanitarian crisis in the israeli palestinian conflict which are the illegal settlement. and so, you know, talk about the illegal settlement and, also, this constant mischaracterization of hamas. >> okay. we will get to that point. these illegal settlement. what is the root cause? >> this is the root cause, the point about the west end versus gaza and obviously the attention is focused in gaza because that is where the rocket attacks are coming out of. but i think that what you saw in the past year of the peace negotiations that the united states tried to broker was some attempt to address these root causes with some attempt to really get down to what is at the root of the conflict? and to put it all out there and what's again, coming back to this point that was so powerful: you have two sides that simply do not trust each other. so, if you are talking about root, fundamental causes and what's underlying it, let's talk about that for a second, that neither of these heads of government, mac mood abbas, benjamin netanyahu finds in the or a credible partner and a trustful partner. to me, that's a root fundamental problems. >> that's one right there. >> kate if you are situated in the situation along the border and what's happening in honduras, el salvador, there is an extensive story out this week: what is driving tones of thousands of children to risk their lives crossing the border. a report from dpaut guat city. actually, from houston, texas, good morning. democrats line. >> good morni caller: good morning. yeah. who is right and what's wrong in the situation? who knows who is right and who is wrong? but i do know that i am keeping up with counts and the palestinians, as usual, are the ones that are being charged. i am looking at the babies at these bombed out places on al jazeera. it's outrageous. something needs to be done about it. ♪net is what netanyahu always was. he hasn't changed. i think it's ridiculous that we don't get in this country about what's going on. think about the children. think about the children. >> i think the coverage has been pretty accurate in the last 48 hours. there was a disabled clinic that was bombed in gaza. you have seen images of the dead, the wounded, totally disproportionate in terms of the cas annual at this. there will always be more palestinians than israeli killed. people get a sense -- it's hard not to -- watching the coverage, of how one-sided it does feel in terms of the body count. we will see more of those images. i think we actually do have a good sense of what this actually looks like on the ground and how the palestinians are being affected by it more in terms of the violence and the death. >> we have final call but first, this is from monte who said in a tweet: could you please address the settlement problem? >> a settlement problem, i think basically what it comes down to is that neither side at this point feels that there is a deal going to be made on the settlements that either can accept. ab as felt that netanyahu was not making good on commitments to stop building new settlements and it was seen as ab as thought he was put in this situation where there was this business of prison exchanges for agreements on settlement and he felt that will prisoners were being exchanged but netanyahu was making it look like that he was being bought off for the exchanges with an agreement to do more settlements and the israelis said no, we are announcing plans. everything is planned five years out. lo look, the root causes, we can go back hundreds of years. thousands if we wanted to. at the end of the day, neither side trusts the other to make good on the deal and the proposals that they are making. so whether it's settlement or borders or whether it's recognition of jerusalem, you know, i just don't see any way out of this right now until each of these, you know men really come to the table and demonstrate that they actually trust one another to make good on any of these commitments. >> our last call is from nashville, tennessee. marty, good morning. >> good morning. i just wanted to make one comment. i just wanted to apologize to the palestinian people for my country's tax dollars enabling israel to build all of these settlements basically even though we begged and begged them not to do that. joe biden was over there and they announced more settlement. this was a couple of years ago, i guess. >> but i want to just -- our country enabled israel to do everything and then when we asked them to abide by no settlement, they just continue on. i don't think they really want peace. they just want to continue grabbing more land, stealing more land, and anyway, i just wanted to apologize to the palestinian people for my country's complicity in this horrible situation there. >> marty thank you for the call. is israel trying to expand it's territory or trying to work with the palestinian people? >> i think if you were talking to abbas, you would say they are expanding the territory and don't see they are trying to work with israel. israel would say that's not the case and that the palestinians are over-reading the settlement issue. it broke down, though, the talks broke down on more than just the settlement issue as well. i think abbas felt that he, also, needed to pursue a different round with going to the u.n. and, you know, trying to seek statehood there and the israelis considered that a non-starter as well. i hate to sound like a broken record but the trust is so broken on all of the issues betweenthies two men. neither side trusts the other's intentions, much less what they say. it's what they don't say, they don't trust the intentions. >> we talk with ron demor and he told us that israel has the right, will continue to preserve and protect its people and will fight hamas at every level to make sure that the israeli population is protected. >> right. i think that's what you are probably going to see, a ground invasion probably in the next few days if this keeps up. >> shane harris, foreign policy magazine. his work available online and follow him at shaneharris on twitter? >> thank you. >> we are going to take a short break, and when we come back, we are going to turn our attention to "rock the boat," a new campaign to make sure that the millennials sign up, register to vote in 2014 and in the 2016 presidential election and then we will go back in history on this date 50 years ago, a historic republican con convention got underway in san francisco, nominating barry goldwater. a look back at what happened 50 years ago and its impact on the republican party today. you are watching and listening to c-span's washington journal on this sunday morning, july 13th. we are back in a moment. ♪ 40 years ago, the watergate scandal led to a revisit of 1974 and the final weeks of the nixon administration. this weekend, hear the supreme court oral argument: the united states v. nixon as the watergate special prosecutor contests the president's executive privilege over his oval office recording. >> the president may be right in how he reads the constitution. but he may also be wrong. as he is wrong, the court will tell him so. as there is no one that the president, of course, is free to pursue, the court's are the only interpretations. what becomes of our constitutional form of government? >> watergate 40 years later tonight at 8:00 eastern on american history t.v. on c-span 3. in the past, education was limited to the opportunity down the street at the local school. but now, particularly for high school students, their learning is this bundle of digital 11ing services, some that are formal and paid for by the state and some that are informal did is becoming it important states make sure every family have access to a variety of full- and part-time online learning and that districts remain open to those possibilities. >> digital learning in the future of the u.s. education system with tom vander ark monday night at 8 eastern on the communicators on c-span 2. washington journal continues. we want to welcome ashley splane, the president of "rock the vote." she laufrmingz a new campaign to sign up millennialnches a new c sign up millennials to vote. >> thank you for having me. >> what is this re-launch of "rock the vote" all about? >> i got involved in politics because, i think like many young people, there is an issue that i care about that was really important to me and i felt like being involved in a campaign in the political process is the way to, you know, address it and get people involved, and i am excited to be, you know, 10 years later, so involved and involved in a really exciting organization like rock the vote that's so committed to doing the same thin, getting young people involved and making sure that they are participating and that they have the access to participate. >> we are dividing our phone lines a little differently for this segment. we want to hear of those between the ages of 18 to 29. >> number is 202-585-3880. and if you are 30 or older, give us a call at 202-5853881. the goal is to registered about 1 and a half million people including 400,000 who are under the age of 30. you are also working with latino did to register. race awareness of the impact of the voting rights law on young people, advocate for policies that will make it easier to vote and revamp some of the websites that is easy to use and mobile-friendly. so may look at this and say, this will help the democrats more than the republicans. >> i get that question a lot. as it turns out, you know, but voting is not a partisan issue and having young people participating in the political process and voting is more than anything about the health of our democracy and, you know, we don't care how they vote. we are just really happy that they turn out and get to participate. >> pugh looked at the fragmentation and there is a harvard study we want to share with you that looks at the disillusionment of young people when it comes to voting by millennial did, whether or not politicians were motivated by selfish reasons. 62% said yes. 58% said politicians do not share their priorities t almost half said politicians and politics is too partisan and 41% believe that they have no say in government. >> i mean, i think it's not surprising that young people think that. you have politicians who aren't really speaking about issues that matter to young people, and talking to the people that they think are going to come out and vo vote. and, you know, part of the mission that rock the vote is to build political power for young people by inspiring them to participate and then helping empower them to. so some of the things you were talking about earlier in terms of our website re-launch, you know, we moved to 100% mobile website because young people are online. you have over 90% of millennials koektd to the internet on a daily basis. over 60% connected with when they were away from home. you know, we are really trying to make the process easier for participation and, you know, i think the more that we can engage people and get them involved and make it easier, the more likely we can force the politicians to talk about the issues that actually matter to young people. >> you may have seen this chart from the u.s. census bureau looking at voting patterns around the country. in the northeast, most notably in new hampshire as well as in massachusetts, here in washington, d.c. and midwest, the darker the color, the higher the % of the vote. the lighter the color, the lower the permission. it's particularly light in west virginia, texas. this is from the 2012 presidential election. why? why such low turnout? >> i think -- >> when compared to the overall population? >> yeah. i think part of the issue, which is what you will see in the mid-term election is it depends upon how many resources are expended in the state in order to get young people involved. and, you know, texas and west virginia are not presidential battleground states so there is less information being put out there by candidates about why people should participate and, also, about the process, how they should, which is what you see in the mid-term election, there is a significant decline in spending by can dauts. safkt, there is not as much information out there in the system. >> the website is rockthevote.com and this is what it looks like. who is behind this effort? who is funding it? >> funding the website? >> the website? >> and the organization? we are supported by a lot of non-partisan foundations and individuals who care very much about engaging the youth in our democracy. >> back in the early'90s, the big push was to go to concerts and get people to sign up there. a different approach in 2014? >> yeah. you know, like i said, most millennials are online so we are really he can up and downing our digital effort in order to reach even more people than we would at a concert. music is our roots. we were started in 1990 and had significant support for music industry, cultural leaders and we are doing continuing engagement of these folks in our campaign this year. at big priority is an online push because we can reach so many more people. >> our guest is ashley spillane, the president of rock the vote. we have a line set aside of those of you who are millennial did, 202-585-3880. john from tucson, arizona. how old are you, john? >> i am 24. >> and are you politically active in terms of voting? >> i am but we shouldn't get emotional about it. the system is stacked. politicians are heavily backed. citizenship united was the wrong decision. people need to realize that companies like blackstone supported cantor, the speaker of the house lost, you know, it regime, cia changed both years. >> the mistrust of government. >> what's interesting, i think what john is saying is that there is a strong feeling out there that the system is broken. the message we are delivering is, you can fix it. you can participate. there are more millennials in this country. it's the largest generation, more than even baby boonlers. young people have the potential to be a huge voting bloc and affect change. i think that this ideamers. young people have the potential to be a huge voting bloc and affect change. i think that this idea that young people don't care or are lazy ongoing to be out spent by huge corporations, i mean we just have a pour that needs to be tapped and i think participation is the way to show that. >> here is how the expected participation is shaping up according to the harvard poll that came back out in april. those millennials doevenlt voting in the 2014 mid-term elections, about a quarter, 23%, probably voting, 16%, another quarter, 25% remain undecided. 20% say they likely will not vote. and 16% saying they definitely will not vote in the upcoming mid-term elections. from thet from baltimore maryland good morning caller: good morning to. host: go ahead caller: i was wondering about the rock the vote campaign. how about the u.s. citizenship of puerto rico who are unable vote? i think the rock the vote, we are forgetting 4 million people. host: a somewhat different issue. guest: rock the vote has an international program, i think, of which this would fall. we have chapters all over the world and people organizing on our behalf. we are always excited to have another. i would suggest you start it. host: host: here is a look at the 88 million mil ennials. those registered to vote, about 70% are registered, and 26% are not registered. let's go to dan from brooklyn, maryland. good morning. >> good morning, sir. i would like to ask the young lady how interested are there -- is their organization? not only to get people to recommending sister, which i am in favor of, but, also, to educate them to try to get them go out and get themselves well informed whon the issues. you take, for instance, the national debt. you take talk to young people -- and older people, too, as far as that goes, but mostly younger people. they have no concept of the national debt. host: host: thanks for the call. guest: a huge part of our website is making sure people have the information they need to make an informed decision. on rock the vote.com we have an entire election center that provides the information you need in order to make sure you are at the right place, that you have the right id or information that you are required to present in order to vote, and then we direct you to other resources where you can learn more about the issues for the candidates. >> many would argue that the mid-term elections affect people more than the presidential election. this is, again, based upon a new study looking at the millennials. will you definitely vote in the 2014 mid-term elections among all millennials? 28% say yes in 2016 for the upcoming presidential election. about 55% say yes. you essentially have about 72% in the mid-term elections saying, no, they are not going to vote and nearly half saying they are not going to vote in the presidential election. >> you know, i said this earlier, but the -- during a mid-term election, first of all, it's not just young people that don't vote. there is a significant decline and turn out. i think there is a real case to be made as to why participation in local elections is important, and we, right now, are running our campaign to make sure people understand the importance of a mid-term. like i said, you know, there are fewer resources being expend pended bynate of mid-term and local elections on information about how to participate. we really want to -- that, we feel is our job to get out there and make sure people have that information. >> our topic, the relaunch of the rock the vote campaign in time for the mid-term elections. chris is joining us from dixon, illinois. good morning. >> hi, ashley. excuse me. i am kind of nervous. i have been thinking lately. everybody is so busy with their lives they don't take time to pay attention to what's going on government. and i watch t.v. and i see these ads for the dangers of smoking or the new medications that are coming out and i think if somebody would just put an ad on t.v. during prime time about a few the topics that would affect them in government and the importance of them going and voting, i think that would work so good and more people would come out to vote because their lives are so busy, they are not paying attention? >> i think you touch on two really important issues. the first is acceptability. people are busy, particularly millennials who have grown up digital natives and expect to be able to do things online. our system is not set up to meet people where they are. in over half of the states in our country, you can't even register to vote online. >> that's a huge problem. we want to first address the systematic issues that make it more challenging to participate and then, second, you know, our big campaign in year is we haven't announced our creative concept, but it will be around this issue, this idea that, you know, by note voting, you are saying you're totally fine with how things are. we know that that's not the case. all of the polling that you are sharing indicates that so we have a really big job ahead of us to make sure people understand that if you want to produce change and you want to see issues that matter to you, you have to vote. >> this is an instructive chart to look at, the changing demographics of the american population right now, the white population accounts for about 64% of the population and it's expected to drop to about 59% in 2020. let's move ahead to 2040. by 2040, the white population will be about half, about 27% will be hispanic followed by asian and african-american and by 2015, we will be in the minority. the white population will be in the minority. as at a time hispanic population increases by 31%. let's get to rick in shcharlott north carolina. good morning. >> good morning. ashley, i want to encourage you to continue what you are doing. i call in because of the old folks and i don't mean this negatively. and they have got everything messed up for your generation. and it's going to be your generation that makes america the leader of the world in a country that it's supposed to be. look at all of the racism. you all do not even care about that. you all care about people, individuals. so you all would make that right. the next thing that i want to talk about is the mess that they have made. look at these wars. they didn't on want to hold bush, cheney accountable. they want to blame it on barack. you know what's right. it's your group of people who will change this country and change this country. the gass crisis, 3.85. you all can change that, go more electric, think about the future here is the most important thing. you have to save the planet? >> we will get a response. ashley spillane. >> it is the largest generation. there is a lot of power in that it is the most diverse, the millennial is 43% people of color. and it's huge and it's growing, and as a result is that the the diversity that we have, you are going to see new issues be addressed in a different way and progress made. >> when and why did you get involved in politics? at what age? >> i got involved when i was in college, and i was really concerned. it was right after 911. i think there were a lot of people getting involved in different issues and causes at that point, and i felt like the best way that i could help hors d'oeuvre the country would be involved in help get people voting. >> is there correlation between the declining % of young people voting and the elimination of civics as a basic high school curriculum class? >> absolutely. it's one of the huge problems we have in this country. civic education is hugely important to make sure that people understand. i mean, you know, i have said this a couple of times but having the information you need in order to part us pate is really, really important and high school education, about how to participate is one big component of that. >> this point on laura's twitter page at c-span wj. she says there is no one running in 2014 who can inspire millennial did to vote en masse. >> the number for 18 to 29, alex from lake charles, louisiana. how you? >> doing excellent. >> how old are you? >> 21 years old. >> is and did you vote when you turned 18? >> absolutely. >> okay. go ahead with your comment or question. >> yeah. i am sure. we have been talking about the mid-term elections, the 2016 presidential elections. i think a lot of people don't pay attention to the republic part. is the rock the vote doing anything on the local and state level as far as political and state elections? >> thank you, alex. >> yeah, we are -- we are involved in all elections. we want people to vote at all levels of government and increase participation across the board. and so the information that you can find on our website about your local e leingsz and the information that you need in order to participate is part -- a key component of our program. another comment from john who says, quote, young folks are naive and idealistic. only folks who have felt the boot heel of government on their neck study politics. >> what an optimistic view. i think that that is tough, but i think what you have in the millennial generation and what i feel person ally is very optimistic group of people about their future and their ability to make a difference. you have a really entrepreneurial group of people. you know, what's happening right now, you have all of these young people who actually real incredibly passionate and care very much and are addresses problems in the communities they live in outside of the system. you have, you know, people who can't get a cab. they create an app, several different apps to fix that. you know, there are volunteers at the local level, and i think that anything that we do to tell people that that -- that they actually have no voice or impact is really detrimental to our -- the health of our democracy because when young people participate, they become habit annual voters and in order to further our country and have a really strong and healthy democratic process, you need people who are voting all through their life span. >> get more information by logging on to rockthevote.com and this is what the website looks like. lynn goldmacher says this: you give me hope for the future we have not left your generation to work with. sorry. >> ryan, go ahead, ryan. caller: i'm sorry. i wasn't able to hear that. host: host: you are on the air. please go ahead. caller: ashley, i think what you are doing is to be commended and it's great to see especially a young person with such dedication. >> that's to be appreciated. what i would like to ask, though, is: why do the millennials need courting so bad? were do they need chased? guest: i think it's not necessarily about needing to be chased, and there are lots of studies about this but people need to be asked to participate in our democracy and i think to the previous caller's point, with the cuts in high school civic education we have a generation of people coming up who aren't familiar with how to participate. so, you know, what we are doing is fighting back against or, you know, countering efforts to have people make sure that they are informed about how to get involved and participate and, you know, we run a program called democracy class, which is a high school, 45 minute lesson plan on the history of voting, why it's important and how to make sure you are participating going forward. >> and raysponding, also, to mike's point saying, millennials have grown up in a society where they get a trophy for participation and have an inflated sense of their own self worth. save the planet? got to mike, houston, texas. good morning. ca okay. we will go to lynn caller: this is mike. i would like to address this argument, the same argument that you are raising, the false argument that your vote doesn't matter. i live in texas and texas is traditionally a republican state. so that means whoever wins the primary is by a large margin re-elected -- the next elected official. >> based upon all of the demographics, although not a significant immediate change, the dem graphics of texas appear to go shifting over the next 10 to 15 years? >> i think if people will vote, it can shift a more balance system for sure. we have a primary for lieutenant governor. 1.8% eligible voters voted in the primary. was a a landslide. 65% for dan at that tipatrick. that the means 1.3% of the eligible voters potentially decide who our lieutenant governor is, the most powerful man in texas. [the voters that vote in the least -- in the lowest fraction will get out and vote, they can change the election. their vote will matter if people will vote, their vote will matter in this election. >> mike, thanks for the call. this is a tweet from a viewer saying: with the illegal immigration, youth unemployment is soaring. do you follow issues like that? guest: yes. i mean we monitor all issues that matter to young people. immigration is a huge one. jobs, the economy, in addition to women's health and the environment and there are a myriad of issues that young people care about that aren't at the forefront of the political conversation right now that we would like to elevate to that point. >> generally speaking, when you are talking to your friends and family around the same age, what do they tell you about the electoral process and political process in this country? >> they like to make fun of how much time i spend on it. and they are their helpful reminder of how much time sort of non-politically people spend on it and at this interesting to hear how people approach the system as they are going about their daily lives and their every day routines. we talk about online voter registration because it's convenient and helps people get involved in an easy way. a lot of my friends are incredibly excited about that because the system is just challenging, and it's different across every of the 50 states and so you have a really mobile generation, people who leave states to go to college or for work and are confronting the registration process being different, the requirements when you participate being different whether there is a voter id requirement or not. some states allow longer periods of early voting. some don't allow periods of early voting at all. i think it's really helpful. i am encouraged about how much enthusiasm is out there right now to get people involved and fix the process. >> where is home for you originally? >> i am from massachusetts. >> and have you been involved until party politics? >> not in massachusetts but yes, before. >> i am you worked for the iowa democratic party. >> uh-huh. >> this is a truly non-partisan push, though? >> yes, it is another question i get a lot. so, i worked in partisan politics for several election cycles and have left because i am equally frustrated with both parties, which i know that my generation shares that frustration and i felt like this is a really good opportunity to re-focus the conversation not on partisan issues, not on party politics but on the issues that matter and making sure that people were able to participate and have a voice on those issues. i think things have become so engrained in one side or the other, the bickering, the earlier point about the questions my friends request me. they tune it out. they don't want to talk about it. they don't want to hear about it. i really am so optimistic that we can help change that. >> our topic, the millennial did, mid-term elections and registering young people. ashley spillane who is with voc the vote. larry from west village. good morning. welcome to the program. >> good morning. i would like to say i am very glad pushing people to vote, but i feel they have got to make sure they are educated voters because an uninformed vote is worse than no vote in my opinion. the other thing i would like to say is i know they fought hard to get the vote down to 18 i think the 21 should be the age to vote and 21 should be the anal for everything. drunking. if you are old enough to vote, you should be old enough to drink. if you are old enough to die for u country, you should be old enough to dripping and old nut to vote. they let them die at 18. i feel people should join the military and get trained but they shouldn't be able to go into a combat zone until they are 21. i think everything shutted be 21. informed votes are what count. host: host: okay. how do you respond to that? guest: i am committed to protecting the 26th amendment which gave the young people the right to vote. there is a lot of -- you know, there is a recent case in north carolina that has arguments around the 26th amendment and state-based law that was put into place to make it more challenging and for now, it is law that 18-year-olds are allowed to vote and we will fight to make sure that their rights are not infringed upon. >> on our line for those who are millennial did, ryan is on the phone. bridgeton, in general. how old are you, ryan? >> it's brian. actually. i mean as far as that definitely gets some franchise and voters from our particular voter base. i have written a paper on how poverty threatened our democracy as a whole. >> that's just another effect of the disenfranchisement of voting today. the voting rights act. more devisiveness within our voter demographics. >> ryan thanks for the call. another tweet commends you for getting involved. you seem intelligent and honest. thank you for your effort. even if you looked at a high-turnout election among the overall population, it's still often less than 60%. anywhere from 3530 to 45% of the eligible voters don't cast their ballot regardless of age. why? >> i think there is a couple of different reasons. i think one, it is about access to information and how to participate. people like to be asked to vote, too. i think that's really important and you have a lot of people that site barriers like not being able to make it in time or not being registered in time, which is why provisions like same-day voter registration, early voting and access to gos absentee ballots without an excuse are really important. >> to the joann from james town north carolina, good morning. >> good morning. good morning. thank you for c-span host: good morning. you are on the air. caller: i am calling from north carolina and i really enjoy c-span and i am so happy that i got through this morning i would like to talk about what is happening in north carolina. we now have a republican legislature and a republican govern. we have very draconian voter id law that will take votes from college students and the elderly and minorities and this is the most important election for young people. >> we will get a response. is her sentiment accurate? no. i think that she is right to it be concerned about what's happening in north carolina. there was legislation passed earlier last year to eliminate p preregistration for young people, to eliminate same-day voter registration, which two and a half -- was two and a half times more likely to be tain advantage of by young people to get registered to vote and participate. there have been cuts to civic education. there have been cuts to eliminate mandatory registration drives in high schools. i think there is a systematic approach to making it more challenging for young people to vote and we are really enthuse that the court case earlier this week has been brought up so that it challenges those things. i think she actually makes a really good point about the fact that voter id laws don't impact just young people but elderly people who might not have a driver's license. so one thing that rock the vote has been committed to is fair and acceptable id requirements. so anything that will -- that people would have to be able to produce. >> becky makes this point. feeling old? yes. rock the vote was founded back in 1990 by the music industry the last call is from victoria in new york city. good morning. we lost the call. what's next for rock the vote? >> we are excited about the mid-term campaign. we are going to be registering 1.5 million people, continuing to engage people online in an ongoing conversation about why participation matters. we are amming up our mobile and social media programs and will be all across the country at events encouraging people to keep it healthy. >> ashley spillane joining us here in washington, thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> the website is rockthevote.com from the millennial did to 50 years ago, and on this date, one of the most significant national party conventions that ever took place, the republicans gathered at the cow palace in san francisco. next, the perspective of richard smith as we look at the goldwater fl influence on the republican party. the sunday morning programs, all of which can be heard on c-span radio. anything thatwide on channel 120. nan callow. good morning, nancy. >> good morning, steve. on today's sunday t.v. talk shows, some the topics include immigration reform and the unaccompanied children crossing the u.s. southern border. violence in the middle east and politics. and you can hear rebroadcasts of the program on c-span radio beginning at noon eastern with nbc's meet the press. guests include the iranian foreign minister and martin indik, peace envoy in the obama administration, also congressman mike rogers, chairman of the house intelligence committee and representative joachin castro, a texas democrat. at 1:00 o'clock, abc's this week, today's guest, attorney general eric holder. at 2:00 p.m., it's fox news sunday, guests includisitsi prime minister benjamin netanyahu, michael mccall, chairman of the homeland security committee and texas republican governor, rick perry. cnn's state of the union follows at they are p.m. eastern with bing mitt netanyahu and arizona republican senator john mccain. at 4:00 p.m., hear face the nation from cbs and another appearance by benjamin netanyahu and rick perry, also the plo's ambassador to the u.s. the talk shows are on c-span radio brought to you as a public service by the network and c-span. again, rebroadcasts of the program begin at noon, eastern, with nbc's meet the press, 1:00 o'clock abc's this week. 2:00 p.m. fox news sunday at 3, cnn state of the union and 4:00 p.m. eastern time, face the nation from cbs. listen to them all on c-span radio on 90.1 f.m. 4 here in the washington, d.c. area. across the country on xm satellite radio channel 120. download our free app for you're smartphone or go online to cspan.org. because ball does strike me -- i don't want to get meta physical. i am the antimeta physical school of baseball but it's a good sport to be the national pastime of a democratic nation because democracy is about compromise and settling. you don't get everything you want, and baseball is like that. it's a lot of losing in baseball. everything that -- every team know they will win 60 games, know it will lose sixty games. you play the whole season to sort out the middle 42. you win 20 games, you are immediate ache other. 11, you win 89 games, you have a good chance to play in october. so, it's the sport of the half loaf, as is democracy. >> george will on his latest book on baseball and wrigley field and the recent controversy surrounding one of his columns. sunday night at 8 eastern and pacific on c-span's q & a. >> for over 35 years, c-span brings public affairs events from washington putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white housents, briefings be and offering complete gavel-to-gavel coverage of the u.s. house all as a public service of private industry. we are c-span, created by the cable t.v. industry 35 years ago and brought to you as a public service by your local cable or satellite provider. watch us in hd, like us on facebook and follow us on twitter. . >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back author richard norton smith. a pleasure to have you. thanked for being with us. guest: my pleasure host: taking a look back 50 years ago, nomination of barry goldwater which would rock the gop convention. lee edwards called him the most consequential loser in american politics. it all began 50 years ago today in san francisco. let's take a look back at one of the news reels reflect okay what happened in california. >> the man who came from san francisco expecting to win in a walk appears heading that direction. barry goldwater is claiming more than he needs to win on the first ballot. when he addresses the platform committee, he appears to be a man who exudes confidence. he gives the committee at preview of his campaign tactic. he calls for less government at home. a rear guard, william scranton attempted a floor fight over the seating of a negro delegate from tennessee. he was defeated in a voice vote and his followers girded for another battle. meanwhile, former president dwight ice en hour arrives by train for the convention, mum on his choice. he says the g.o.p. platform need not have a plank condemn, the extreme. >> the largest civil rights demonstration since the march on washington last summer is assembled before the san francisco city hall. 40,000 people, half negros demonstrate against goldwater and hear from henry cabbot lodge and other anti-goldwater leaders. >> that takes us back 50 years ago and sets up our conversation. how significant was this convention? guest: you cannot over emphasize how important it was. it really was a defining -- i would argue the defining moment in the modern republican party. there had been this right/left, conservative/liberal, northeast/western battle for a long time. there had been strong conservative forces behind bob taft, for example, of ohio. but what happened in 1964, it's one of those rare moments in history where you can really, really see and the television audience did. this is the first real television convention as well. >> that's important. you could see the page being turned. it wasn't simply that barry goldwater and his forces took over the republican party. it's the old eastern establishment that had dominated and rallied around rockefeller and scranton were permanently relegated to a minority status tom wicker who wrote about this july keepth, 1964 described as a complete state of exhaustion for more than eight hours for those not old enough to remember. this is when conventions really matter. >> platted platforms mattered. the out-voted liberals, we will call them, the eastern establishment, if you will, rallied behind a pro-civil rights plank. but, also, nelson rockefeller who had fought goldwater in epic contests through that spring was the main speaker for a proposed amendment on tuesday night at the convention that would specifically denounce extremism. an issue we are grappling with 50 years later. it explicitly mentioned the communist party of america, the ku klux klan and the exclusion of the birch society who made it could troversial among many supporters. >> this was a headline. tom wicker from 1964, goldwater backers vote down the plank and his rights on an atom bomb plan. >> as i say, it was -- it was a transforming convention. the party redefined itself. remember, here is the great i n iro irony. we are meeting in san francisco. eight years earlier, the same party met in the cal palace in san francisco to renominate eisenhower who was the embodiment of consensus politics, slightly right of center but, you know, eight years later, the eisenhower party was being laid to rest. it was a party that would be ronald reagan's party, newt gingrich's party and i would argue, in many ways, it's the tea party. there is a philosophical, funneled mental break it was no longer a party raising questions about how government functioned. it was a libertarian way about the role of government in our lives. they would government was too intrusive and laid down markers that 50 years later, very cloeft to t to the heart of mod he were republicanism. >> we will hear from governor rockefeller in a moment and senator barry goldwater. this is a fascinating look back 50 years ago. he had to endure the full ho hostillery. you are coming out with a few book "on his own terms: the life of nelson rockefeller." talk about this. >> it opens with this scene, the defining moment in the history of the party and it certainly is a defining moment in the life of nelson rockefeller. this is history with the a face on it. this is nelson rockefeller, the man that the right loved to hate, in effect, taunting the majority in at a time cal palace over this particular issue of the force of the republican party on the issue of political extremism. remember, this is on national t.v. managers punched it out. it was out of prime time in the east. but they knew what the consequences could be in terms of demonstrating to viewers the meaning of extremism in this scene. host: 50 years ago tomorrow, governor nelson rockefeller of new york. >> precisely one year ago today, on july 14th, 1963, he warned the republican party is in real danger of subversion by a radical, well-financed, highly disciplined charge [applause.] it is we predict. the honest republican liberalism. with the accommodating the mainstream of republican principles. july 14th. those weren't cheers. those were jeers. the goldwater manager who had the nomination walked out and the platform, they had the nomination. the one thing they wanted to guard against was some kind of unperceived incident that would damage their chances, which were already, you know, a locking shot going in to the fall campaign, cliff white sitting his trailer, the mastermind behind goldwater recognized this is what they were afraid of he tried to shut it down. mohegan sun were too strong. >> our guest is richard norton smith coming out with a new book on nelson rockefeller. it will be released this fall. until researching this lengthy biography, if he were alive today, would he recognize the current republican party? >> i think he would recognize it, but i think he would also be warning against what he saw as extremism. you know, rockefeller came from a tradition of theodore roosevelt tradition as a boy in new york. he sat on it. r's lap and this did a chat. he saw himself in the lincoln tradition, in the ice en hour tradition he had a strong civil rights record. he was appalled that the republican party was being recast as the white man's party. that was not his version of the party of lincoln. and yet more recently, john mccain viewed as a moderate, mitt romney viewed as a moderate. >> that's who the republicans turn to as their party's no, ma'am knee. >> the fascination thing is in some ways, they are almost pa parallel to the wilkes and the deweys. they were candidates somewhat reluctantly nominated by a party whose heart belonged elsewhere. conservatives in the 40s and the 50s, and i would argue many more recently feel that they have had these candidates theft upon them, that the party establishment has shoved them down their throats they were told they were the only electable candidate and what emerged in the early '60s and particularly with the tea party is wait a second. let's step back. let's nominate a real conservative. let's nominate someone who fu fundamentally disagrees with the direction of american government over the last half century and try our chances with someone who we really believe in. >> we are taking calls and comments in just a moment as we look back 50 years ago when the it nominated barry goldwater, the impact the nomination had on the republican party and its relevance today to the tea party within the g.o.p. phone lines are open. >> we will get to your calls in just a moment. here is barry goldwater july, 1964: >> let our republicanism, is it so focused and so dedicated not to be made futile by unthinking and stupid labels. i would remind you that extremism is liberty, people remember what he said. >> absolutely. a defined campaign, for many defined modern conserve testimony. goldwater more than once in later years had an attitude that i told you so as he saw his brand of conservatism embraced by the prior to as ronald reagan became a dominant politic figure in the '80s and beyond. it is one of those electrifying moments. >> conventions used to produce. george wills talks about this. he said basically thatraps won in 196 fire. it took 16 years for the results to come in i would expect conservatives would be the first to question the intervening years when it was puric. >> you are traveling out to california, speaking with ronald reagan as part of a tour of presidents and patriots. the website is presiden presidentsandpatriots.com to learn about the influence of california on party politics. >> yeah. a day at the reagan ranch, a picnic up there. sam simeon, ex-president of the hoover institution in san francisco where warren harding died. it's an 8-day california experience. i guess we got the information up on the scene. >> the website is there. >> let me give you a phone number if people want to talk to a real life human being, they can call 202-657-7444. >> we will come back to the number in just a moment. why did the republicans choose san francisco as its convention city? >> that's a great question. ironically because there was a sense the republican party was really growing in the west. we think back to the '60s and the 'seventies and obviously, it was a party that had the historically had its grounding in many ways in the midwest. and that was changing in the '60s. the south came into play after the civil rights act. for example, the state of georgia had never voted for a republican in 1964, it voted for barry goldwater. it was no accident that that was the year of the civil rights bill the other side of the coin is the state of ver mott had never voted for a democrat in modern history. it voted for lyndon johnson. '64 was a realining year. part of that was thevan party was shifting. >> a northeast ten midwestern party to ausouthern and western party and picking san francisco as the host city for the con convention was a recognition of that. >> steve makes his point. my reference to calling mccain and romney, quote, moderates, professor smith did not blink. romney called himself an intense conservative. i think he used the word "extreme conservative." >> the same thing, you get the dichotomy. that the makes my point. both mccain and romney felt the need to, in effect, convince the core of the party, the bates of the party that they were more conservative than perhaps their voting record or administrative record let me on. >> let's go to bill joining us from illinois with richard norton smith. good morning. >> with gary bold water today, would he still be in the republican party, or do you think he might be a libertarian? >> i think he would -- i think, you know, it's an impossible question to answer. i thought it was possible to be both. what you are referring to in later years as some of the social issues came to the fore, goldwater for example famously told jerry falwell to kiss his post there are. we know senator goldwater was a champ upon. >> what was the line? i don't care if they are gay or straight as long as they shoot straight? >> exactly but those were not issues in 1964. i w he was a libertarian in his approach to the overall role, function, cost of government. which he wanted to keep as small as possible. it's over the next years that came to involve issues of government in the bedroom this is with laura saying i want to go on vacation with richard norton smith. the cal palace is no longer there. where was it located? >> it is still there? >> it's still there? >> yeah. >> where is it. >> in daley city outside of san francisco. it's a big -- it was built it's not particularly scenic? >>. >> the september tour, this is the headline from today corbservatives 0 much. democrats line. good morning caller: how are you doing? mr. smith i would like to ask you about strom thurman and jessie helm and what influence did they have on the conservative wing of the they were the per sonification of dixiecrats who in the wake of the civil rights movement and particularly the package. simple rights act and the voting rights act in '65 switched parties the political realignment. it's important of what congress did, the civil rights act, what the two parties did at the con convention, what the voters did new england, whennists growing up was rock-ribbed republican except for massachusetts and maybe rhode island. new england has become the most reliably democratic bastion in the country. but the deep south, almost the solid south, which meant the solid democratic south is now the solid republican south. one of the photos courtesy of the smith sewnian.com. tracy from minneapolis. good morning. caller: good morning, guys, richard. how come the word extreme has changed? all of the compression and the control and the power but mention anything about controlling spending or getting the government out of our lives is seen as someone that is bad. the whole country was built on the fact that we fought this type of power but now, it's blended down to if you even question anything p you are fringe. he i think they have worked this over. is that true? >> it's an interesting viewpoint. you could argue for 50 years, american politics has revolved around the argument of what is extreme. the right would have one dwef nix. the left would have another definition. part of that, of course, is the rise in 64, dwight eisen mower is appealing for unity and he has this throw away life in which he talks about sensation seeking columnists and comment ate orders who couldn't care less about the good of our party and the place explodes, down with walter whitman. down with walter whitman. i would argue fox news, much of the internet, the whole counter journalistic enterprise that goes by the name of conservety media is an out quote of the emotions that first found voice in that convention at that moment. >> the cal palace opened back in 1941. there is a body art convention taking place there later this summer let's go to leo in mount larrel maryland. >> i am on the air? >> you are. caller: i would like to request mr. smith. you showed earlier the speech of rockefeller and the goldwater delegates booing him. didn't he do that on purpose knowing it would hurt goldwater in the november election? >> that is something that occurred to the goldwater people at the time. i have researched this for my book. effective that afternoon, rockefeller rehearsed that speech and they had no idea that it was going to yen rate the response that it did. >> might have been naive on their part but the notion that rockefeller, you know, in advance planned this to show up, if you will, the quote extremists mood is over reaching. >> how did richard nix on thread the needle to appeal to the more mainstream so-called chamber of congress republicans and the goldwater wing? >> conservatives had been chastised. chase ended is a better word. gold condition water had lost overwhelmingly. people wanted to say the republican party was dead, conservatism was dead after '64. two weeks after that lyndon johnson won, a gallup poll found an almost dead heat among americans who identified themselves as liberal or conservative. there was always that lark element that thought of itself conservative. nixonts skill was to thread the needle, to be just conservative enough happy to 68 was a turbulent year a fairly moderate stoliberal wing. it was a tightrope act the book available at cspan.org. pat tree arkansas george washington and the new american nation, their biography of thomas e dewey and the triumph of herbert hoover and your work along with robert dole laughing almost all the the way to the white house. the director or executive director of a number of presidential libraribraries including the lincoln library, the ford library in grand rapids, michigan, the reagan library in simi valley, california and the hoover library in iowa. fred is joining united states from murianna, florida. good morning? >> i was enjoying mr. smith's comments i was 11 years old when i watched this convention in 1964. we had a t.v. hello? guest: yes. caller: can you hear me? host: host: we can. go ahead, fred. ::i did watch the convention. barry goldwater was right, his slogan was in your heart, you know he is right. what he predicted has all happened today. one final comment, i think if we had another 9-11 this country would collapse because we have no sleepered. >> thank you for the call. >> line about in your heart, you know he is right and in the tag line by the johnson, in your gut, you know he is nuts which is what campaign tried to paint barry goldwater. >> rockefeller did achief, whether intended that night with considerable hells from from the galleries was an intelible image americans, in 1964, this was the first television con convention. we were not accustomed to seeing people behave that batly, the republicans had in their convention. it came as a shock. and it did define for millions of people the goldwater acceptance speech unpromising as goldwater, himself could be. >> if you are joining us on c-span radio as we look back, gary goldwater, his nomination that began 50 years ago, greg from athens, alabama, good morning. >> good morning, gentleman. thank you for taking my call. i was two years old when this con convention came out. so i would have to say i wasn't able to watch it but a lot of things that struck me growing up, up through the early '80s, it was always seen as kind of like the loyal opposition and they were kind of pushed to the side by the democrats in congress a culmination of gary bold quat's efforts when republicans took over the congress. i would like to get your thoughts on that. thank you? >> thank you. >> yeah, time was good to goldwater. he was a man who ironically, he stands out. he is not a man i was willing to be drafted. primarily because he believed he looked forward to running against john f. kennedy. he had an idea of a modern lincoln-douglas style exam pain. >> how likely that was to happen? >> unlikely. it could have been a very different kind of campaign. he wanted to have a fill solve calf discussion and he thought if he could get 45% of the vote against a popular, glamorous incumbent president it would advance his real objective which was not to make barry goldwater president but which was to take over the republican party ant lay the foundation for someone down the road to win the presidency. >> mat from springser, new york, good morning. at at a really september 16th, 1976, where we were protesting against rockefeller, always a staunch democrat, he came to support bob dole's nomination and i just -- he gave a finalous iconic, could still get the picture on amazon governor rockefeller was signing copies of that picture to the horror of people on his staff, one who told me walked in one day and he found the vice president of the united states signing the photo of the governor giving a one-finger salute to the protesters. he said you can't be signing this picture he got more mail, more friendly mail about that incidents than anything else in his entire career except dallas night at the cal palace in 1964: our guest richard norton smith and his book on rockefeller t on his own terms. alexis is joining us from caller: good morning. thank you, mr. norton smith? correct? i just wanted to kind of reminisce with you. in 1964, i was a 19-year-old student in atlantaa and there was a mock con convention at emery university and the goldwaters were there. there had been a parade in atlanta for barry goldwater and then they came to emery, and i was almost swayed but not quite. there was so much going on, especially in atlanta. and i am a native georgian and with the desegregation and martin luther king was right there in town. and so much work needed to be done on that front that they didn't sway me but they were charismatic. i remember that and a great orator. a wondesh man. thank you. >> alexis thank you for sharing your recollections from 50 years ago. we will go to plymouth, new hampshire. valerie is next caller: good morning. how are you guys doing? host: host: fine. thank you. caller: i am glad to see a historian on t.v. can you hear me? >> we can. go ahead, valerie. caller: okay. i want to know: are you aware that ronald reagan back in the 20s, before f.d.r. was a communist? >> ronald reagan was born in 1911 guest: he would have had to be a junior communist. >>host: to learn more about the impact of 64, in 66 as governor of california and as president. guest: you could make the case that if goldwater never happened, if reagan would have had a presidency. goldwater laid the ground work for the transformation that made it possible for ronald reagan to be nominated in 1980. >> this is a tweet from the jim saying, will we play the datesy ad? somehow, i think not. a portion of the datisy ad. an iconic spot from 50 years ago. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. >> a speech that resonated 50 years ago in an ad that still resonates today? >> yeah. >> the first political ad, a negative political ad in a major campaign. >> yeah. the ultimate negative ad, an ad that ran, i think, only once. >> in september of 1964. >> and 50 years later, we are still talking about it. we are still analyzing its influence on much the political discourse ever since. >> why? >> because it was so over-the-top. even at the time. but it does -- it was he you run an ad like that because you thing it's going to find an audience. you think a certain number of voters are going to find it credible. they are going to be swayed by it. >> only existed because of this quote extremim issue. what we had seen at the con convention and really by the campaign. >> one of the problems germaned force was that the conservative base did not trust him. why, then, did he select neson rockefeller as his running mate in 1974, getting our dates right here. one of the reasons they didn't trust him in 1976 was because he had selected nelson rockefeller in 1974. gerald ford was a man of capitol hill. he new the town. he new the lemming slafb process. what he wanted to do was to compensate he wanted someone with administrative experience, someone who had enternational reptation and, also, not least of all, someone who had access to talent and rockefeller throughout his career had a reputation for surrounding himself with the best people. in addition to that, they had a personal relationship. they had worked together on refers new sharing. rockefeller was ininstrumental in leading the fight for revenue sharing and to keep new york precariously balanced and ford had been instrumental in seeing that it was passed in the house. so they had a personal relationship. and ford was completely comfortable. there were people who thought, you know, do you really want to put someone as electric, as c e charismatic as colorfoful and controversial as rockefeller on your ticket? don't you worry he might overshadow you? and ford was always comfortable enough in his own skin that that didn't bother him at all. >> final question, did you look at the republican field both in the mid-term elections moving ahead to 2016? could we see a repeat of what we saw in 1964 in 2016? guest: we could see a repeat in the sense that kind of the libertarian right comes to dominate the organized party. i don't think we would see a repeat of the landslide because i think america has moved considerably to the right of 1964. i think the republican base is much larger than it was. i think there was a -- certainly as we see every day, a strong core of anti-obama forces who will turn out to vote for anyone the republicans put up. so, i think in terms of the party, yeah, we could see history repeat itself. who knows what will happen in november? >> and the promise to repeat the phone number for the upcoming presidents and patri-i don't think so.com. this is what in your turour. >> we have been doing this 20 years. first time was out of california. 202-657-7444. >> is that number also on the website, presidents&patriots.com? >> the rommckefeller comes out when? >> october. >> united pentecostal church thank you for being with us. >> women continue the conversation as we do every morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern time, 4:00 o'clock for those of you on the west coast. among our guests, fon johnson, national core respond event to talk about the efforts of the reauthorization of the trafficking victims protection act, an issue the senate will take up this week. also, stephanie armor of the "wall street journal" to talk about healthcare and we will turn our attention to transportation issues as the highway trust fund, about to run out of money in early august. >> that's all tomorrow morning on c-span's washington journal. newsmakers is coming up next at the top of the hour. thanks for being with us on this sunday. i hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend. have a great week ahead.

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