people look. the protocol that was designed to bring together hvac systems and industrial systems that were running in businesses like this one. if you wanted the air- conditioning to talk to the garage or the alarm, you could use this to do that. echelon makes the system and they are stackable. there is a place in denmark that has one place controlling all the controllers in the city. the lower controllers were password-protected but the upper one that controls everything was not. i found a place that was like a convention center under that basketball floor, i guess, is an ice rink that you can defrost if you are up to it. why these controllers are online, i am not sure. i am guessing it is for the convenience of the organization. they should have taken five minutes to think about what they were doing before they put it on the internet and i found it. they have conveniently placed their floor plans on their website so you want to mess with certain parts of the building, you can. other organizations that are controlled by this system -- another version of this talk has another dozen of these things that is controlled by the same unit. you get into one and can control the rest. it'd think your phones are safe, maybe, depends. this is a screenshot of an application you can install on an android phone. this is a phone that someone has set up in the living room is publicly accessible that is monitoring their living room. you can sit there and watch what they are doing in their living room. not only can you watch the video, you can use drop on the room. if you really want to scare them, you wait until it gets dark and you can turn the flash on and off. you can morse code at them with the phone. you can tell that to these things and put them into test mode. you can mess with stoplights. i guess people went back to the 1990's, security, security, i will put it on the internet and no one will find it. you can scan the internet over and over again and keep finding this stuff. i will keep doing it and keep laughing at the guys that do this. the idea that you can put something online it will be safe if you don't tell anyone about it is not a good idea. this is another fun find. it has a website, or i should say the units that are deployed that have web interfaces that look like this. they keep track of every single car that drives to the intersection. i thought the red light cameras but they actually take pictures of everyone. why that is, i am not sure. a c, you can change the destination place where they go. this is a french hydroelectric plant that i found it is directly connected to the internet. i did not let the job or run because i thought it was a malicious website. yes, that does read kilowatt. this is a french hydroelectric plant on the internet that is still online today. i've a story that involved our government and the french government talking and he basically said, "eh," and left it. the french really like their hydroelectric plants on the internet. other people have found this hydroelectric plant and broken it and cause it to flood people. apparently it is still open and people can still get to it. i put that on twitter. the dhs called me, so police they are listening. the french really do like to leave their power plants online. here's another one, and a third, and a fourth. after four, i give up. satellite systems are online as well. storage arrays, emergency telecommunications equipment, home automation systems, you can control a guy's garage door if you want. swimming pool -- why would you put a swimming pool on the internet? i don't know. why would you give me control of the acid pump controlled by the system? you can put it into manual mode" the acid into the pool. openly, publicly. anyone who knows the ip address of the system would be able to dump the acid into the pool. ge system that is meant to link together m.r.i. systems. wikipedia has an article that says it is like 27 of them that talk to each other. some genius thought it would be a good idea to put that on the internet. medical stuff, imaging. so, i went looking for it and i found a lot of them. direct the connected to the internet. this is what it looks like when you search for ge centricity. when you look at this, it you can see some stuff. i looked it up and it turns out it is a breast, liver, and prostate imaging tools that is used is hospital. this is publicly accessible on the internet. why are people putting this on? i'm sorry, i'm like two minutes over. >> people are telling me i'm going to have to thank you very much. thank you for the time. >> talks about environmental policy and politics. here is a preview. >> how big of an issue will this be in 2014? it it ise that race, 80% of that whole campaign in terms of what it is about. i don't think that is going to be unusual. it is a huge issue. would you like to see her defeated? .> yes by supporting ultraliberal's the disagree with mainstream .ouisiana thought >> what is your relationship like with her? ondr. jekyll and mr. hyde louisiana-based non-ideological issues. andork closely together hurricane recovery after hurricane katrina. on national issues, which tend , wee much or ideological constantly disagree. >> a louisiana issue, describe .ow you work the gulf coast was devastated by the bp oil spill. since there has been no new federal action to perform the regulations on the offshore oil industry. what should happen in this case? are you and senator landrieu talking about that? >> i disagree with your premise. there hasn't been a new statute passed that has been a redo of offshore regulation. a whole new worlds. i think in some instances, gone too far and added unnecessary burden that does not improve safety. whatever you think about individual regulation, it has been a redo of offshore oil and grass -- oil and gas regulation. >> watch the entire interview sunday at 10:00 and 6:00 here on c-span. >> is 2013 wraps up, we are here to tell you about our c-span year in review series. i look at five issues we have looked at over the past year. laws,ok immigration senate filibuster rule changes, nsa surveillance on wednesday. thursday, gun laws. friday, the government shutdown. beginningarts monday at 8:00 eastern on c-span. tablee joined at the by senator tom coburn, republican from oklahoma, here to talk about his newest waste book which he has put out for the last several years. you are also a member of the select intelligence committee on capitol hill. we want to get your take on the recommendations from the panel on reining in the nsa that came out yesterday. what do you make of those recommendations and what do you think congress and the president can do with them? we have been busy. i haven't thoroughly studied that. i will look at the recommendations. i don't agree there should be a civilian director. there is too much ordination. i have sat on this committee for 3.5 years. what is in the press is oftentimes erroneous, but you can't state that it is erroneous without compromising other things. senator feinstein and senator chambliss are often perilous to correct things that are in the media. the second thing i would say is that a lot of what is put out, what mr. snowden has put out is erroneous, but you can't say how it is erroneous without compromising our own national security. i think some mistakes have been made. there is no question about that. of the most thoroughly oversight it agencies -- oversighted agencies. time ins a week i spent a closed review oversighting this agency. what they have done, how they have helped secure this country without dilating privacy rights of americans -- violating privacy rights of americans -- do you think that is pfizer he panel that was put together was the right group of advisory panel that was put together with the right group of people? guest: i don't want to cast judgment on that. i am pretty much known as an independent thinker. i lean more towards the libertarian side. i am not real worried about what nsa has been doing based on what i have seen in the protections that have been put in place to protect civil liberties through what they have done. we live in a very different world today than we did 10-15 years ago. i am not for giving away our freedoms to give ourselves protection. but they have been reined in significantly, but have also done a very effective job. of your other efforts for the past several years has been to put together the waste book, as you call it. calling out wasteful government spending. the waste book tallied some $30 billion in wasteful, unnecessary government spending. that is the highest total of any of your previous waste books. was this a particularly bad year or was the waste just easier to find? oh --i would be careful with the numbers. the last one was $25 billion. we are spending money on things we don't have on things we don't absolutely need. interesting hearing your last conversation on bernanke. bernanke did not have any help from the u.s. congress. we have the monetary policy, that is what the fed can do. but there was no positive fiscal policy from the u.s. congress. same thing goes for the spending. administrations can do so much. but if the congress is not going to oversight but the administration is doing, isn't going to be specific when the right legislation, isn't going to expose waste through an oversight hearing and holding people accountable, then you are going to continue to have it. host: if people want to see the waste book itself, you can find --t at cockburn. senate.gov urn.senate.gov. is this book meant for members of congress? guest: it is for both. these are some real problems. disagreepeople will with me on whether that is appropriate spending. au cannot disagree that in time when we are borrowing $750 billion those things can't be a priority. host: what are the things you highlight? study to a yale professor for $400,000 to assess the intellectual capabilities of tea partiers. the focus of that study was to people or constitutional conservatives don't have the intellectual capacity that other people have. the study surprised because they're smarter on average than the average voter. is funding through nsf. there was a political purpose to it. that, thenoing to do do it with private money. that is all borrowed money. billion in this thing is borrowed money. we are borrowing it against our future. maybe it is a good thing to if wethat, but if it is, have to borrow money to study it right now, when we are in trouble as a nation, should we be doing that now? let's say you of a completely different political philosophy than i do and you think we are to look at that. should we look at it now? when we are borrowing the money to do it? or should maybe we wait and have some judgment and maybe not spend money on somewhat questionable things? especially in light of that they could be challenge from a political perspective. maybe we ought not to spend the money until we get our house in order. host: you bring up the government shutdown as one of the big waists. talk about the waste you see in the government shutdown. guest: you didn't have to shut it down, one. you paid $300 million to federal employees for not working. you pay them anyway. the amounts of money we are itwing here would have kept from shutting down. $30 billion is half of what the sequester was per year -- on a discretionary budget. if congress would do their job and create an expectation that you will not get away with spending money stupidly or ,rivolously or not following up you would change spending habits. here30 billion outlined in -- you would not have to have a government shutdown. host: who puts together the waste book? guest: my staff. we are constantly -- this is not hard to do. compiling it at the end is what is hard to do, to make sure you have no errors. the last third of it is nothing with footnotes and references where we got the information and with the bases of it is. part is not collecting the information, but put it out there were people don't think you are totally being -- have a biased source. everything is sourced and legitimately so. this is a third of what we could have put out. be going through specific examples from the waste book for about the next 40 minutes or so on the washington journal. if you want to call and ask him about the waste book and have some thoughts on it, he is here to answer your questions and talk about it. republicans, (202) 585-3881. democrats, (202) 585-3880. independents, (202) 585-3882. outside the u.s., (202) 585-3883 . jesse in virginia beach, virginia. republican line. caller: hello, senator. guest: good morning. caller: on 9/11, building seven was not hit by a plane. would you be willing to meet with and review the evidence about the controlled the motion representatives -- host: we will try to stick to the waste book question. guest: we will look at that. i will not spend a lot of time meeting with people. we will certainly look at it. host: julie from los angeles, california. good morning. caller: good morning. hi, senator coburn. when you are doing senate , i found your interactions were particularly mineral -- memorable and i'm loving the goatee. [laughter] there are brilliant people. unlike most supreme court justices, sometimes i agree with what they are doing and sometimes i don't. i don't think it really matters. the questions you hear are really interesting as they hear cases. packed -- from the fact that they are both interesting individuals. i think they're doing fine. judgment which coincides with justice -- if you have open and clear judgment and it is willing andook at the constitution look at the facts of the case ,nd it is done out in the open essentially with a hearing before the justices -- one of the things i would like to say to the supreme court is documentation of their meetings as they decide these cases behind closed doors so that we can have more insight into what the discussions were before we see the a patient -- opinion and dissenting opinion. host: how did you feel about having cameras? guest: i think cameras and courts are terrible. just like cameras in the house of called all sorts of acting out, just the same as the senate. camera,ook at thie the don't look at each other. i believe courts ought to be open, we are to hear it. i am not a big fan, because of what i have seen happen in courts, i don't even like court tv because of all the theatrics that go on. host: we are talking about your waste book this morning. put out earlier this week. is there one specific example and here that particularly hooked you or surprised you? orst: there's always one two. when you see stuff done for political purposes the the agencies -- i don't like that. funding that like the -- ought to be is very careful to make sure we are not trying to make a judgment about political for loss of the. -- philosophy. is this a study we need to know? and what value is it? in thathere a bias -- are you trying to get a certain outcome? sometimes at nih, you see that. the things that bother me are poor decision-making that never gets held accountable. million spent on airplanes that we will not use. they went to arizona to the bone after they came off the factory line. the person who made that decision did not get fired. not held accountable. the people that make the decisions -- they are not held accountable. the companies that provide things to the federalthe compane thanks to the federal government who do not perform, we do not take them to court to give the federal government back their money. we spent $300 million on a blimp for warfare observation. an army blimp that flew one time in new jersey, not afghanistan. it did not meet the requirements so we sold it back to the manufacturer for three hundred thousand dollars. who made the decision to do that? who is held accountable? what general independent i is forced to retire? pentagoneneral in the is forced to retire? we never hold people accountable in the federal government. they cioast. we do not hold individuals accountable or the contractors who did not deliver. some numbers -- the federal government spends over $80 billion a year on i.t. $80 billion. when you take all the gao and ig reports and the contracts that are over -- that are high risk by gao. it is estimated that over half of everything we spent every year on i.t. gets thrown away. $40 billion. that is more than everything in this book just on i.t. in the federal government. we are now holding people accountable. the administration did not do it, congress does not do it. the number one problem is congress. congressy members of is really awaiting publication of the wastebook each year. this is the fourth year you have done it. here is a tweet from senator rand paul. the $65 million in hurricane sandy relief money spent on television ads promoting torres and in new york and new jersey. #wastebook. talking with senator coburn about his wastebook. $30 billion in spending listed in the wastebook. jonathan from georgia on our line for independents. good morning. caller: good morning. my comment is actually -- it is on the oversight of the nsa. i think it applies to waste as well. it is always a case of the fox guarding the house. henhouse. it is an issue of public trust. when you look at spy abuse, i look at this close to previously dealing with -- it was not until the break-in and the fbi that we discovered the abuse. then you had the church commission to actually look further. to the nsailarly scandal, you had the snowden affair that expose wrongdoing. you had clapper come on and lie to the american people. i think those recommendations coming out should be looked at closely. i think it requires some type of church commission. isthe waste part, i think it the public trust level of our government. congress and senate and the president, of course. it is at an all-time low. they are saying trust us to oversight ourselves. host: james on twitter writes in. we are spending $50 billion a year on snooping on americans. are we getting our money's worth? guest: that number is not accurate. think the independent caller made a great point. we do have a crisis of confidence in our country. that is based on lack of effective leadership. both by the president, the house, and the senate. why would you think we are doing -- why would we be at 6% approval looking at what we have done. the senate majority leader which lack -- the senate majority too high.t is way you have to have been living in a hole or known nothing about the u.s. senate to think we should have a 6% approval rating. the senate was designed by our founders to force compromise. to build consensus. to not react to the public pull. to think long-term. we have had leadership in the last 8 years that has gone counter to that. partisan, non- compromise, not consensus, and nonreactive to the needs of the country. almost 5 years since the president died appropriation bill. -- says the president signed an appropriation bill. we do not have to want to take a vote. it is the most cowardice thing to not put bills on the floor. we are now running the senate. you cannot get them in -- you cannot get an amendment or offer a solution. there will be a defense authorization bill today, $700 billion worth of authorization. over half of our discretionary spending. there will not be one amendment offered. the pentagon cannot even report back as the constitution requires how they spent their money. we are not going to do anything about it? we have all this waste in the pentagon -- duplication and incompetence. doingon the subject of something, let's talk about what you do when you call out the $30 billion in waste in the wastebook. robert on twitter. does this -- senator coburn does this to stir up the tea party. why don't you fix it? guest: i cannot convince my colleagues to do the hard work of oversight. if that gentleman will recall, we used to do earmarks. somebody offered at amendment to eliminate the bridge to nowhere. that was me. it was a strategy to involve the public and what is going on so they will force change. withears ago, we did away earmarks. not because career politicians wanted to get rid of them. american people were demanding it. the whole idea is to create such withssed -- such disgust the stupidity of members of congress that the american people will demand change. i cannot convince them after nine years. i cannot give the leader -- i cannot get the leadership to do what they need to do. silicon sedation of duty of oversight and transparency -- to actually fulfill their constitutional duty of oversight and transparency. host: have there been smaller victories? excessive printing costs. going to change until americans demand that their member of congress start doing what they were sent to dale. -- to do. there are a few of them do. the number one goal is to get reelected, not to preserve the republic. not to make sure we do not waste money. we give stuff to committee chairmen and ranking members to do stuff, nothing happens. 3.5 years ago, i attached an amendment that forced the gao to study every aspect of government. we have now had three reports and will have a fourth one this year. worth ofr $250 billion duplication and waste per year in the federal government. already. have given us only one time and 3.5 years has one committee done anything about this gao recommendations. it was the labor workforce committee in the house that consolidated 47 training programs into 19. they only had authority over 36. senate has not done anything. no other committee has acted on recommendations that would be stated us hundreds of billions of dollars a year. we are more interested in perception and politics than we are the policy and the future of our country. disgustedshould be with us. i cannot believe these 6% -- the 6%. nobody is doing their job and there is no leadership to get this country out of trouble. host: talking with senator tom coburn, republican of oklahoma. -- member of the government affairs and select intelligence committee. author of the wastebook, the subject of our conversation this morning. that was published this week. joe in georgia on our line for republicans. caller: good morning. spanve been calling in to c- for 30 years, tom coburn is a hero. is tok the only answer elect more people like you and ted cruz. i am a member of the tea party. coming downcramer to be on my television show. we have a guy running for just like you. he is running against the incumbent governor. he is a champion just like you. the only answer is to elect super taxpayer champions like you and ted cruz. what do you think? for people not vote who are career politicians anymore, i do not care what party. i do not think you fix washington by sending people up here to fix it. i think the states have to restrict the power of the federal government. it is out of control will stop -- it is out of control. we need a convention of the the power to rein in of the government. we need term limits in congress. we need to limit the authority of the executive branch. regulations that have major impact on the economy that do not have any basis in science but have a basis in political philosophy. there is a lot of things the states could do if they had a convention to limit the federal government. going back historically, if you if youdison, jefferson, read our founding fathers, we are so far away from their principals of a limited federal government and the authority of n relationship to the federal government, we need a big change. you are not going to fix it with career politicians. limits domany term you think a member of the house and the senate should serve? msest: a max of two ter in the senate and three times in the house. i am in my 10th year in the senate. that is funny. host: you served in the house before that. to come never intended back up here. this place is sick. is nothing but secular information in washington and very few fresh ideas. it is all handed off to someone else. freedom terms give you to do and be who you think we ought to be. rather than continuing to look to get reelected. there are two countries in the eyes of washington. the washington country and that the country outside of washington. not served well by what we have going on in washington today as a nation. mitchell from tennessee on our line for democrats. you are on with senator coburn. caller: good morning. guest: i am doing well, how is chattanooga? it is a pretty part of the country. is beautiful down here. a couple questions -- you are talking about bending. -- about spending. i don't see why you don't look at loopholes as spending -- aret: tax expenditures nothing but earmarks in the tax code. 1.2 trillion dollars, i was on the bowles simpson commission and recommended eliminating many of those. caller: you guys have to do that. the second thing, do you know the difference between enlisted pay.nd officers why would you take money from an enlisted man? i was down there for years, i never saw officers relieved me. were -- i was shoveling coal. we had a hard time down there. i spent 15 years and you want to tell me what i did is not worth it? i do not understand what you are saying. i voted against the bill yesterday, i will vote against this one that will impact retiree pay. i am on the other side of that. you may have me confused with somebody else. caller: i thought i had seen your name as voting for it. host: we will go to spartanburg, south carolina on our line for independents. good morning. caller: good morning. senator coburn, i want to let you know that i appreciate what about. informing us i have always thought that it needed to be brought to the front. and dealt with. all this abuse. all this spending. it is like the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. i am 66 years old, retired. monthot even make $1000 a in social security and that is what i live on. a policys have to have along with your regular medicare, on and on. i tried to keep myself above water. -- it applied you, senator senator, to you, come on and let us know about wasteful spending. i have been watching c-span for many years. stuff that they let people -- senators come on and speak about. i am so discouraged. i love our country, but i am really discouraged that we are going down a path. it is like the whole is getting is gettinghe hole deeper and i am afraid we are getting very. guest: we do not have one problem in front of us that is not fixable. but until you take it out of the hands of the politicians here today -- republican and democrat -- that way a game with the american people. leadership and that says i do not care what happens to the party, i care what happens to this country. forll make the choices best the country, not my party. i will speak the words that people do not want to hear because they need to be said. until you have that kind of leadership, we will not fix our country. 80% ofwould tell you is what you hear from washington is a lie. .poken by both parties it is half truths. a half-truth is a whole lie. we continue to see people not wanting to embrace the truth, the facts of the situation. they rationalize everything so they can look better as a politician. politicians in america have failed this country right now. they are celebrating bipartisanship. that was a deal about politicians, not about the country. it was good for the politicians. you're not going to have that conflict. word onoing back on our spending, we put some things in the bill that do not make any sense in terms of asking some people to sacrifice -- like wounded and injured veterans. wasting $80 billion a year out of medicare just on fraud. because we will not hold agencies accountable. put in the system that the rest of the industry has and we cannot force it. we do not have an executive at hhs that knows what they are doing in terms of improving thanks. we have failed. need toican people reject the status quo of the politicians here today. host: talking about votes this week. you voted no on the budget bill last night -- that was passed last night. you said i will vote no again today. the national defense authorization act. why are you voting no. thet: we will never fix problems at the pentagon without structural change. put some teeth into something that will force them to report numbers. in the constitution it says every year you should get an account for the treasury of how you spent your money. the pentagon has not ever done that. no idea where they are spending their money. what i can tell you from my business background. every other successful business -- if you cannot measure what you are doing, you cannot manage it. you have never seen such incompetent management. why would you buy $700 million worth of planes and put them in the desert. why would you buy a blimp that does not work. the way you get rid of a trillion dollar deficit is $1 billion at a time. they waste $100 billion a year at the pentagon. they do not know where they are spending their money and how effectively they are spending their money. you look at the major weapons systems, they do not know how to buy weapons systems. our high-risk list is unbelievable. we have a carrier -- nobody would believe what is going to cost, the gerald r ford. 35's that are way over budget. they are still going to cost two times or three times what they were projected to cost. incompetency because there is no adult in the room and no control of buying something before you know what you want. atneed to make real changes the pentagon. you have people who are authorizing this who do not want real changes. they like the status quo. ella onat are. -- twitter. i do not always agree with him but i know he would be a great president. any interest? frustration is high enough. it is time for me to go home before i get in real trouble. i have done and been where i am going to be. host: senator coburn's fourth wastebook. you can see that on his website, coburn.senate.gov. you can look through that report of about 100 different examples of waste and unnecessary spending by the government. ken from georgia on our line for republicans. glad tosenator coburn, see you on the program. i have seen you on the other discussingn fox, your latest addition of government waste. -- edition of government waste. as you mentioned, i was just watching a program where there is a move afoot to have an amending constitutional convention of where the states' legislatures have to put forth the idea of amending the constituti