Transcripts For CSPAN Washington Journal 20101125

sjhost: you can start dialing in now. we will get to your thoughts and comments this morning. a little bit from president obama is weekly address where he talked about this. he says in the coming weeks and months i hope we can work together. democrats, republicans, and independents alike to make progress on these issues. president obama goes on to say "for what we are called to do today is not about democrats or republicans, left or right, it is about us. it is about we know we did what we know this country is capable of. it is about what we know america is capable of. " there is a new poll that shows there is a bfans of congressionl gridlock. 43% think gridlock is a good bank. independents and democrats overwhelmingly since that gridlock is a bad thing. what do you think this morning? bipartisanship or divided government? let's hear president obama. >> this is not the hardest things giving america has ever faced, as long as americans are hurting, we have to look out for one another. as long as our sons and daughters and husbands and wives are at war, with the support their mission and honor their service. as long as our friends and neighbors are looking for work, we have to do everything we can to accelerate this economy and keep it moving forward. and we will. we will not do it as a new one political party, we have to do it as one people. in the coming weeks and months, i hope we can work together, democrats and republicans and independents alike to make progress on these and other issues. that is why next week i have invited leadership from both parties for real honest discussion. for what we are called to do again today is not about democrats or republicans, left or right, it is about us, about what we know this country is capable of. it is about what we want america to be in this new century. >> let's hear from the first caller on the spirit at robert on the democrats decline. -- let's hear from our first caller, robert on the democrat'' line. caller: my opinion, we can expect no government for a minimum of two year. s. host: richard on the independent line. good morning. caller: happy thanksgiving. host: same to you. caller: without a doubt we need partisanship, but you will not get it. i believe the simple reason is when the lobbyists are able to bring billions of dollars to congress to buy votes for their constituents, you will never give partisanship. if both parties would stand together and stop them from bringing money to congress, then i think things would greatly progress. host: you think there should be partnership -- partisanship, but you didn't think realistically there would be. what would you like to see president obama and congress agree on? caller: there is a lot of things. one is tax cuts. i do believe they should go back to the way they work, considering the fact that 1% of the population control of about 24% of the income. i sink it is just there -- i think it is just fair. host: you were an independent, did you vote republicans this time around? their tax message is we should extend the tax cut for everybody. caller: i believe in extending the tax credits for everyone, but then again at the same time, i do not think there was any reason why president bush should have given the big tax breaks for big business. this is the first time in history we have ever gone to war, two wars and the president did not raise the taxes a little bit to pay for it. and host: that was richard in florida st. that the tax-cut talk is list for when they come back. he agrees with the poll recently done showing it is a born berlin debt congress to complete action on each of the items before the end of the year. -- he agrees with the poll recently done showing congress needs to complete action on each of the items before the end of the year. 56% keep been fixed date taxes extended. -- keep the estate tax extended. passing legislation to allow gay men and women to serve in the military, 32% very important. 41 percent said not a important at all. 31 percent of the poll said it is very important, 29% somewhat and gordon. this is a usa today gallup poll on the u.s. agenda, where people rank things. we of a caller on the line from virginia. caller: i did not like the comment made about obama to succeed he needs to establish an agenda. host: do you want him to compromise? caller: no compromise. why should they not pay the taxes? no compromise. never. that would be a mistake. host: what you do for a living? caller: nothing. i am on social security. they stole my compensation. i am still working on this. i am going national with this case pretty soon. host: jim in florida. your comments this morning. caller: i think there needs to be some type of agreement between obama and these people on their right. they will have to compromise things. you cannot have everything your way all the time. some things republicans want are good, some things that obama wants are good. you cannot get anywhere drawing the line in the stansand. host: what is your big issue that you like to see compromise on? what top sure this? caller: there is several things. -- what tops your list? there is taxes, health care bill. everything. you have to sit down and work compromise out. it is like when medicare was passed in 1965. lyndon johnson got with every senator and it worked a deal out. that is how medicare came into existence. host: finish your thought. caller: if they had drawn all line and said we're not going to do this and we're not going to do that, we would be in a hell of a shape today. host: "the new york times" has this article this morning. host: chicago, steve on the republican line. a good morning. caller: it is called checks and balances. host: do you agree with? caller: yes, i agree with that. when obama took office, the first words out of his mouth was "i won, you lost." do you remember that? host: so deal hayou do not likey compromise? caller: that is a bunch of crap. host: good morning. caller: i would like to say half the thanksgiving to all of the native americans in this country for allowing us to live on their land. it is a very special day. i live in a community that has a population of a doubt what indians. in terms of congress getting along, if i took on such an adversary your role in my job working with autistic children, i would be fired. i think term limits would correct the situation. i do not think people should be serving well into their 80's. i deeply need -- i think we need youth to become a greater part of government. in terms of the tax cuts, if tax cuts for the wealthy were so productive, where is the evidence of that? i am just not seeing it. i am from michigan. they did not pass an extension for unemployment. my next-door neighbor in this apartment, she will lose hers. this is very, very serious. when we do not treat people equally, very bad things happen. one more thing the -- health care, it is so important for every individual. everyone has health needs, and that includes dental. it would open up this country to such good thing if they could walk in and get help when they needed it. it is almost like it is a no- brainer. i do not understand why people make such a big issue out of people wanting to receive medical care. host: i want to go back to your previous comments where you said there should be term limits. of the general gave an interview recently -- obbbobby jindall davis' speech where he was talking about a part-time congress. what do you about that? caller: it seems like they're always gone, had and they are paid for it. i was gone yesterday. it was a furlough day. it would be really interesting to see the whole financial situation in terms of how much money is bet for their wages, their benefits, and that includes all of their aides. i am sure it is a huge cost to this country and not recognize because it is not put out there for the american people to see. host: which do you governor and his own words. -- week will show you the governor in his own words. -- let's show you the governor and his own words. >> supermajority to the right of passage is in our constitution, getting rid of the earmarks and other reforms if they do not keep piling on the debt. the most radical idea, there used to be a part-time congress. do not let them become lobbyists. when they have to live under the same rules and laws that the past for the rest of us, maybe we will see more common-sense coming out of washington, d.c. you have a group of politicians that come to washington and promise to change the culture, and become part of the problem. nothing ever happens. this will not change the structural forms, this is what the founding fathers anintended. host: our question on this thanksgiving morning, i partisanship or divided government? caller: you are such a great commentator. it is a great question. to everyone out there, happy thanksgiving and god bless you all, america. i believe there were always be bipartisanship as long as a certain portion of america looks at all, and a certain way -- looks at obama in a certain way. as soon as he got elected, it was in a rush toward gridlock. half of america is a certain way. he was not voted by people, half of america did not vote for him. the gridlock will continue because historically, socially, culturally do not accept obama. it will not happen. host: that was drawn to an independent. adana republican is joining us from florida. -- that was john an independent. -- john, the republican is joining us from florida. caller: how are they going to know they are not terrorists or anything? i hope everybody calls their senators and tells them to vote against the screen agreen act. social security is not a mandate. we have paid for all of these years. medicare i still pay. i pay 20% of my doctor bills plus a supplement. what has happened to social security is they let me end all of that illegal aliens on it. host: argue on social security? caller: yes. what they need to do is instead of $84,000 they take out, they need to pay a million dollars. government has sold 3 trillion dollars out of and never paid it back. host: will continue talking about bipartisanship or divided government. first, the headlines for you. the u.s. tells tried to rein in your allies. this is on the situation between north korea and south korea as the obama administration issues that carrier to the yellow sea. this morning anin "this houston chronicle -- "the houston chronicle." "los angeles times" peake says retailers and for zero weeks of black pride is. we will talk about retail sales, consumer spending tomorrow morning at 7:45. "the chicago tribune" with this headline. another headline on that issue, "protest against scans a bust." few choose to opt ourt of full body imaging. and caller: i do not see how you can have any kind of government if you do not compromise. the question is unbelievable, but the most important thing for people is repealing the estate tax, which only affects zero 0.3 people in this country. our priorities are so crazy, i do not know what is called to happen. thhost: the caller is referring to the poll that showed at the beginning of the program. 56% say passing legislation that would keep the estate tax said it is very important here ye. 50% said very important expending of the tax cuts. boston, susan on the independent line. good morning. caller: happy thanksgiving. you are not a commentator, you are a host. that is why i watch you. i am dismayed at the performance of our congress and frankly our president. i watched these european nations one by one as they face challenges. overnight they are so nimble they can institute draconian reform cutbacks across the board. they seem to be very acquittal equitable. i am very worried about our country. i do not believe the tax cut should be extended to the super wealthy. if i were super wealthy, i probably would not take the tax cut. but on the other hand, a shared sacrifice, we have never been comparcompelled to do it in this country. wherwhen you read the alliehead, the rain in your allies, how can you tell the country that we owe so much to to rein in your ally? it is impossible. there are too many layers, that we cannot act like a functioning democracy. the only solution i see is made a truly going to public elections. i do not know. i am old enough to know that my parents at least lived in the generation that witnessed the collapse of the british empire after world war ii, and i see a speeding towards irrelevance in the world. i am very frightened for our country this thanksgiving. host: mike mullen was on abc talking about this issue. here is what he had to say. >> worrying it is something we should stay with. it is a worrisome leadership in north korea. he is a very unpredictable guy, very dangerous guy. this is tied we think to the succession of the young 27 year- old that will take over and at some point in the future. he continues to generate these kinds of events. >> to send warships? , we have troops there. -- do we send warships? >> we have 28,000 troops there. to go what are you telling them to do? >> we're working with allies. -- >> what are you telling them to do? >> the one country that has an influence is china. it is absolutely critical. >> north korea has the bomb? >> they have worked hard to develop nuclear weapons. the development last week of the iranian enrichment facility is a big deal. it was described as a sophisticated modern facility peoply. he continues on this path. it will continue to destabilize are really important part of the world. host: admiral mollen oullen talg on "the view." host: hon still, alabama. deal on the republican line. -- huntsville, alabama. caller: i just wanted to let everyone know happy thanksgiving to the united states of arica, but i really think people are forgetting about our freedom and what was given to have this freedom, to talk on the show. whether it is obama or george bush or anybody else, if you have a right to say anything, go out and vote. i am thinking of what one person that i am young, and i am proud of our government. whether it is right or wrong, we still stick up for the people in leadership. what i am trying to say is that if if nobody does not like what is going on, of course everyone has different opinions, but go out and vote and do your duty just like everybody else and be proud for our government. you know? i do not understand why if nobody likes to live in the greatest nation in the world, then do not live here. in a certain way, you hate to say that, not trying to be mean or anything, but i am just saying i am proud of our government. whether it is right or wrong. we live in a great nation. we have problems like anybody else, but we're not under dictatorship. we are under a republic. host: front-page of "the washington post" on security measures. also on the pat downs and controversy over that, "los angeles times" was headlines on that. this pull shows about 61% oppose the idea. chicago, carl, democratic line. your next. in calcaller: good morning. i know basically what you do on "washington journal" are things that are reflected in the daily news, but the question is ridiculous. the question is should there be bipartisanship? i think what you may need to look at is this, when the president came in, it was demand who said [inaudible] just this past november, the majority leader in the republican party, the mcconnell, said we want to work to defeat the president. they're not concerned about the problems of the country. i watched c-span and watched the major bills that the past. republicans came on the floor of the senate and offered amendments, and as they offered the amendment, they said we will not support the legislation. i watched the health-care debate. this president took an approach to health care that was a republican idea about government subsidies for people to y health insurance. this is a republican idea. it was reflected in the media as though this never happened. host: carl, "washington times" with this headline. it says the economic recovery and reinvestment act puts between 1.4000003 0.6 million to work in the third quarter of this year. -- put 1.4 million and 3.6 million to work in the third quarter of this year. this is according to the cbo. the augusta, georgia. robert on the independent line. good morning. and caller: i wanted to comment about the statement about a part-time congress. in my opinion, i'd think we already have a part-time congress. -- i think we already have a part-time congress. we need term limits. we have them for the president, but we do not have them for the congress. " we have our career politicians running the country. all lot of them have not even held a job. all they do is go to congress and stay there and stay there and they lose the perspective of what it means to live in this country when you are not wealthy. the that we need to change. -- that we need to change. host: a couple of other headlines. "dea shuts down fake pot products." next to that as a headline that the family research council has been labeled a hate group by our organizatioan organization. and that is "the washington times" this morning. pensacola, florida. go ahead. caller: happy thanksgiving. andhost: same to you, sir. caller: we have been told a lot of things during my tenure and life. it seems like the general public targets about what is happening right now. for instance, when obama was first elected, he'd made a statement that he would restore the constitution. that would be the first thing. he never did it. there are so many things that we need to address as clear- thinking people, and we're not able to think because of the media. the media puts out false information continuously. our professional people are -- what is right now? we talk about a great country. we have a real good government. we have a constitution, but what good is our constitution if there is no reality in doing what is right? there are so many things that are wrong in this country. it is a shame. we are not speaking out. what is wrong with this? most of the tea party is elderly people on social security. host: al was henry. a democrat in pensacola, florida. a little bit more from president obama as a dress. -- address. >> we honor our past and press forward with the knowledge that tomorrow will be better than today. we are americans. that is a vision we will not lose sight of. that is a legacy that falls toward generation. that is a challenge that together we will meet. to every american, i am thankful for the privilege of being your president. to all of the service members stationed around the world, i am honored to be your commander in chief. from the obama family to yours, have the happy thanksgiving. thanks. host: here is a headline from " the washington post." host: fort pierce, florida. bill on the republican line. what are your thoughts on bipartisanship? by caller: am undecided right now. i want the tax cuts look at. another comment that i wanted to make was nbc with whatever his name is ann rachael maddest -- and rachel mathedas those of the worst name-calling people i have ever seen in my life. host: let's talk about the tax cut issues. do you fall in that the category of making more than two under 50,000? caller: no, i am not. -- do you fall in the category of making more than 20020050,00? caller: the republicans do not have an easy way to go. i hope the tea party holds them very accountable, because they do have a second chance. i do not agree with obama's agenda. i am glad that speech to showed a minute ago, that we were thankful to have him as our president so we will know not to make that mistake ever again. in hosthost: here is a calln emm one of our viewers. host: tx on the independent line. johnny, go ahead. caller: admirable lens was talking about the did not want the region to the stabilize. only countries in that region is russia and china and japan right across the straits. exactly what the area would lead to stabilizwe destablbilize? caller: i really believe part of the problem is a social problem that we have here. it seems ludicrous to bank that you would have a body of people who are setting conditions for this country and not have a compromise. it is like two people getting married and one person deciding i am not one to listen to another. while we really need to do is take all of these people that have been elected, and we need to remove all of them, because it seems like a systemic problem. they get in there and be it like each other. we need to eradicate the attire lot of them and replace them with people who live a better polls with with the united states is all about. and that i believe is our biggest problem. these does go in there and forget about everyone. host: mike republican and maryland. icaller: it seems that when partisanship is a defined as the conservatives acquiescence and to liberals. i believe it is time to swing back in the other directions and have the liberals acquiesce to the republicans or conservatives so we can swing this country back into a more sensible realm of fiscal conservatism and responsible government. host: i want to get your reaction to this headline. what do you think about earmarks? should there be agreement to ban them? caller: ban them. cut the spending. that is where we have to go. host: senate republicans ban on earmarks, money included in the bill to benefit a home state projects were interest was short-lived. host: what do you think, mike? i guess we lost him. houston, texas. steve on the independent line. good morning. caller: i am definitely a libertarian because that is what i voted. i voted libertarian and democrats, which most people do not vote. the thing i am saying is i love barack obama. i will vote for him in 2012, because i think he is the smartest president we have ever had. that is just the start of it. as far as the tea party movement, that is probably me, but i do not believe in draconian measures as the way to dig our way out of our problems or ill-gain worsined wars, and s the way i see it. host: kentucky, go ahead. caller: i look at divided government as like mixing oil and water. especially in the situation right now. we have the most evil administration since i have been alive and d.c. right now. a person goes into office and the person he does is making a tax bill to kill babies and other countries. that is the most cruel, unthinkable act that can be imagined, which we will eventually have to pay for. whenever you talk about bipartisanship, which keeps liviwe people leaving out the td element, the people's will. we have to make a major change, and it will probably be through t parti-colorea party effort. we need to take time to drop to our knees, and read psalms 100. host: steve on the democratic line in nebraska. caller: good morning. happy thanksgiving to all of you. i have some feelings about bipartisanship, and also the divide. i voted for barack obama. i'd think the man is trying to do what he is doing to help people. it seems like they attack and attack and on the right side of the party, it is constant all of the time. they do not work which democrat on any issues. i feel like when you talk about the tax cuts for the rich, in the past eight years, where was the jobs gained by the middle class? i see the while the getting wealthier. i just work like everybody else. i did not see any raises. it seemed like where i worked they got it all on their end. i wish people would try to work with each other. i prayed the country can come together and see that we need to work together. we all have differences, but we have to understand we're working for the better good of people. i just wished they could be more willing to see on the right side that you have to be able to work across the lines a little bit. thank you. host: the editorial of "the new york times." host: carlton, virginia. you are our last phone call on this. caller: with regards to bipartisanship or divided government, this idea where you have the two-party, but if members heard me correctly when i was in high school years ago, i thought one of the depositions -- definitions of politics was part of compromising. i do not see that happening. as far as i am concerned, they should check their party fellowships at the door when they go into the debate so they can debate and have purple debates and reach some type of compromise and reach across i'lthe aisle to do with the wilf the people want. just like yesterday i saw on the internet where they have reelected nancy pelosi as the leader for the democrats. her ambition in life is going to be to make sure that obama doesn't reach across lyallpthe e too far to the right. host: we're going to go to iraq next. we want to get to commander buchanan to get an update. there is the general agreement that a succession of turkeys have been visiting the white house for years. harry truman was the first recipient of a bird by america's turkey farmers. it was not until 1989 when george h. bush that the turkeys were first part in. president obama did annual tradition yesterday pardoning the turkey. here it is. >> apple insider came to us from just outside of modesto, california. -- apple and cider came to us from outside of modesto, california. 25 were selected at a ball strutting their stuff before a panel of judges with a collective mixture of music in the background. kind of like a turkey version of "dancing with the stars", except for the stakes for the contestants were much higher. [laughter] only pair would survive and win the big prize. life. [laughter] and did all its fences paid trip to washington. -- and an all expenses paid trip to washington. the w hotel has been putting them up. that is great advertising. [laughter] after today, they will spend their retirement at the same autiful place our first president spend his, mount vernon, virginia. later this afternoon, our family will also deliver two turkeys who did not quite make the cut to martha's table, which is an organization that does extra in their work " the folks who are struggling here in washington, d.c. i want to thank the people in pennsylvania who had donated these turkeys two years in a row. this is what is truly meant by the thanksgiving, a holiday that assets to be painful for what we have been generous to those who have less. a time to spend with the ones we love and a chance to show compassion and concern to people we have never met. it is a tradition that has brought us together as a community since before we were a nation when the ground we were standing on was nothing but wilderness. back then the simple act of survival was often the greatest blessing of all. and later president lincoln declared the first national day of thanksgiving in the midst of the civil war, during the depths of the great depression local businesses gave donations and charities open their doors to families who did not have a place to celebrate thanksgiving. in times of war, our military has gone through great links to get our men and women of turkey dinner and taste of home. in america we come together when times are hard. we do not give up, we do not complain, we do not turn our backs on one another. instead we look after one another and pitch in and get what we can. in the process, we revealed to the world what we love so much about this country. that is who we are. that is two things giving reminds us to be. i hope everyone takes the time during this holiday season to give back in some way. i also want to take a moment to say how grateful i am to the men and women were serving this country previousl bravely. you and your family are in our thoughts and prayers and you make me so very proud to be your commander in chief. on behalf of michelle, sasha, leah, and myself, i want to wish everyone a wonderful, happy, and great thanksgiving. it is my great honor as well as to give apple and cider and new lease on life. as president of the united states, you are sure bipartisan -- you are hereby pardoned from the thanksgiving table. maybe you have a wonderful, joyful life at mount vernon. god bless you, and god bless the united states of america. [applause] [inaudible] you have my blessing. >> do you want to touch him? >> do you want to touch him? >> "washington journals" continues. continues. >> joining us from iraq is general buchanan. i want to remind viewers that given how far away you are from us, there is a delay. to be patient with us this morning. let me begin with a headline that doesn'is in "the washington post." the question on most of their minds is what will the government look like and will he keep his promises? , a question to you is, how do these questions that i rockies have impact the security have impact the security situation there? iraqis had impact the security situation there? situation there? guest: let me say thank you for having me on the program. having me on the program. the polls back in march. the security forces did a great job in planning and coordinating job in planning and coordinating everyday sense. everyday sense. does remain stable. does remain stable. of government formation, it is very much looking like it will representative government. is very early to representative government. tell, we have very few incidents of violence the past week during the celebration. the celebration. and this is mrs. mckinley after and this is mrs. mckinley after some of the initial meetings of of the initial meetings of the council of representatives. things look good for the future. host: 4 article goes on to say that in addition to the security reforms other political groups hope to eliminate his power. you also have to dig the divy up positions in his cabinet. cabinet. -- will have to divvy up cabinet. where is he and that progress? where is he and that progress? today the president gave of a direct invitation to the prime direct invitation to the prime minister to actually formed the government. government. with the major parties to make decisions about who will serve with the major parties to make decisions about who will serve and posts. host: about the areas of the country that you are keeping your closest i on. which areas of iraq security is security forces and their performance of the years honorable? -- vulnerable? security forces and to put this in context. to put this in context. security have a most years since then. their progress has been barely have a most years since then. phenomenal. phenomenal. right now there 650,000 members forces, navy and air forces. forces. they have had the lead in the country for a number of months, prior to our shift from combat to stability operations. to stability operations. if you look at overall security if you look at overall security incidents, we are about 10% or less of the security incidents, less of the security incidents, number of attacks per day, a in 2007. actions. qaeda remains undetermined, dangerous terrorist group, but doing a doing a good job throughout the country keeping a lid on things. keeping a lid on things. host: our guest is upper tier general jeffrey buchanan joining us. -- brig. gen. jeffrey bertrand buchanan joining us this morning. and what does this mean for the withdrawal timeline and will iraq be ready when the u.s. end of 2011? guest: in 2008 our countries signed an agreement, actually signed two, the strategic framework agreements which sets conditions for a long time, but they also sign the first one, which is the security agreements. that mandated a number of specific acts, an example of which is that u.s. forces would be out of the cities by june of 2009. we have stuck to that. we also got directions from our national command authority that we would reduce our number of troops in country to 50,000 or less but the first of september of this year and we made that as well. we stock exactly to that. of our obligations. our obligations are that the of our obligations. completed and our presence will down to zero by the end of september next year. host: in the meantime the state department has been taken on a bigger role in the iraq. the state department? how you work out your roles? guest: we work with them every the embassy. it is not just limited to the the ambassador has a phenomenal the embassy. state department. state department. it includes members of u.s. agricultural, agricultural, u.s.a.i.d., but it is a combined effort civilian agencies to that really are effort civilian agencies to that to capacity throughout the country. our agreements helps establish and the united states that and the united states that includes economic development, development, cultural areas, scientific technology, security and defense cooperation. cooperation. we worked every day with a great worked every day with a great members of the embassy team in helping to set the conditions helping to set the conditions for not just cooperation-year, beyond the time of u.s. forces iraq's mission. host: the first call is from texas. go ahead, bernice. you have to turn the television down. i will put you on hold. we will move on. buffalo, new york. frank. go ahead. caller: i have a question before iraq, especially the christian community. it seems as though they're on some type of persecution. it seems like iraq is being persecuted mercilessly. all look the united states government -- bush is a question and i am sure this has to be a horrible thing that continues to happen for people to see all the questions iraq pushed out. iraq pushed out. host: general? host: general? guest: i think it is highlighted in the significance of the probably highlighted october incident at the on the peninsula and baghdad where you had a number of al where you had a number of al qaeda terrorist seeds the church murdered and number of the hostages before the of the hostages before the survivors were freed by iraqi special operations forces. with that came a declaration qaeda that they would qaeda that they would specifically target questions. incidents since then we're al qaeda seems determined to these particular groups. two days later a al qaeda attack a number of arabs in a number of arabs in neighborhoods baghdad and cause the stigma of damage there as well. think this highlights fattah particular is not discriminating, if you will, and who it tries to target. they remain a dangerous threats people. people. . . . ng them as so, in o vulnerable. host: we'll go back to our democratic line in texas. caller: i'm just wondering which everyone, especially our soldiers -- just want to wish giving. giving. i think they're doing a fine in a difficult situation. i'm things happened not agree with it. i still don't agree with it. since our young men and i do want them to know that we >> i'd like to thank a minute and respond. thankful for. to say and reflect say we're thankful for, i'm f the number of those f agencies that e in, and . and for all serve here past, i've efforts are starting to pay off. off. the iraqis number of corners and are the right lot of that to the rs. so thanks to great people for supporting us. >> how raw and the troops >> the opportunity to stop and don't to work in this provide systems for iraq securityy force partners. but personally what i did today is that i did have one meal with a number of troops and i'm with a number of troops and i'm going to have another one later on. r to help burn off some of those get day. so i'm very thankleful for that. >> do the troops get some time to enjoy a big dinner? most of our troops, at the n iraq, we closed and some of them are very, very cases, the actually brought in from a larger base and everything you can think of from turkey, and and the facilities where they put big spread. us an opportunity for the co lonels and command sergeants, that we celebrate. of us don't have the particular thanks giving opportunity to spend it with will, but we do get to sp end it with our families here. host: canned dison the republican line. you're next. [inaudible] [inaudible] caller: hi. to support them. they have a thank you so much for helping to keep our country safe. orry [inaudible] >> thanks. other thing. i'd like sacrifice and hardships of our the yea rs. rs. i'm thankful for them. this is my fourth tour in i am not taking it for granted. i've got a son in the army and it wasn't until my son deployed last year that i understood the sacrifice that families make. support. >> >> host: this is your fourth tour. your son has been well. here's a tweet here. for you and for others that are soldiers there, are you watching closely the situation in careera? in careera? and what's the discussion like? we do have fairly to the armed a bunch of different stations, and so we're the news. d of course, concerned. this situation, and of course most who korea. through. and what we hope is that good will prevail. host: democratic line. good morning. good morning. caller: i just wanted to say service. warriorship. i really, i spent thanks giving and had a number of friends. and i hope that their friends. government kind of takes as model for pack stan is s. host: what were you doing there? iraq in the green zone last year? caller: it was in 2003. i was a combat medic for charlie 109, area support medical battalion. host: was that the last time you were there? how many times were you in iraq? caller: i spent a year there. host: you said you pray for the enlightenment of maliki. what do you mean of that? caller: i forming the leadership of the government that he reflects on who he is in the past and lessons learned. host: why though are you concerned about security if he doesn't? caller: just in general. you know, just the overall situation. i'd like to see, you know, cooler heads prevail as the general said. host: ok. guest: first, i want to thank it i appreciate what i was actually with you in baghdad in 2003. is you wou to and i think that they have faced some obstacles. over the years, one thing that's really caused a great army and police forces they become much more past. so even when mistakes or had a bad day, we call in the army an after themselves and lessons this gets back to the incident that forces take a very hard look at at the intelligence picture that they intelligence picture that they had before the incident, the security situation. the get some lessons and apply them and so they seem determined to gives a sense of optimism for the o confident that the government g political level host: oklahoma, kenneth on the republican line. you're next. you're next. caller: i was wondering when take over the iraqi government again and starts to their what is n going to help out again or are it lay? mentioned earlier that we n 2008, e greemts sets the conditions for wide variety of fields. one of those fields security cooperation. u.s. forces iraq complete its mission next will be reduced to not going to stop our relationship with the military or police forces. under the mission in iraq, we have a very and on the military side we'll o operate army, the air force, and the and there will be a region. so we conduct region. say, for example, the air force b emirates and the iraqi security forces. are ecurity and work on the future. security, here's a headline from bloomberg news. security, here's a headline guest: i haven't seen the details for that report. our mission here says tha t n departs. and accordance with iraqi law, our -- the security forces have iraq authority and beyond host: thank you. saying the capacity does not exist on the civilian side to guest: well, would like to make lot of our effort over this s towards helping with the transformation iraq to embassy, and also to our higher headquarters, u.s. central command. g will fact come, comis commanded general host: next phone call, chicago. mike, democratic line. you're on the air. you're on the air. caller: yes. thank you and the doing the i r see a i know, i re seeking the ible] to bring the fight to ible] them. your officer compared to what you [inaudible] there for? f i that question properly. e that our fanryman originally, and my second e. d the police forces so i've had enforcement and law enforcement enforcement and law enforcement mgs which is quite a different than military in telligence. telligence. but one thing that we have cularly f being flexible. so we have learned quite a bit. flexible. under operation move on, focus should be from that having the need for and operations to tasks. the first is to train, air force, as well as all the k so conduct operations, which is hunting down and capturing or sert with law we use and we operate in er. is to protect the the embassy and the united nations as they operate in their capacity. focused bat forces when they operations. operations and occasionally we have to provide o as sistance. sistance. so there are forces as well as some with the the state developments so we transition itary completely civilian efforts, and we can maintain development of the military effort in the past, focus. hired a lot of former to help us re not actly going in conversation, joe biden wrote in the "new york times" last sunday an op ed asking for congress to approve money for operations in iraq, and he wrote this are where lakeport rgs california. margeie, independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call. out the general thinks we were serious actually declared war unending a declaration. on't is. d that we would it be so? guest: well, i can only comment iraq. there was a declaration and looking over the years, the understood our of support hroughout. of the people so been a declaration of war in the past. regardless, i think of how far difference we've made over the ears. make a and the comment about the vice president's commends before. look building, i do think it's very important for our countries to we've learned a lot from the important nd as said ier, i think they're headed in the right direction. i think they can continue to nd e of a strong call, new york. good morning. caller: good morning. first of all, i'd like to thank you for your service. for thanks giving we had turkey with lunch meat and i spent christmas in the inner triangle. so i know what these triangle. brave men going through. we have to win a we should have won he on vietnam and we could ocialists in country lose this facing nuclear threats weak we'll have a weak country and we'll lose thank and you have a safe our troops over there, come back home. . we have all lost a of and iraqis in this particular reat sacrificed and tours vietnam. and so once again not just years. host: general, it sounds like the military service is a tradition in your family. tradition in your family. what does it mean to you? service is the key i grew up with a certain sense values that me that turned out were enough pretty they are the values. it, one t i think about is selfless service, which is the key army and it's about this day is about giving back we have so much to thankful the world. opportunities. and so this is one small opportunities. to give back to em. em. and i've said that a lot of lot of do. give f hope for the future. nan. johnny, democratic line in illinois. go ahead. i just like to thank the today, and remind the dining sitting across from look back upon veterans. one thing. fight for freedom has a meaning to and i'm sure learned that from the t was sitting on his daddy's thank you, the troops there guest: well, i sort of can't i'm starting too get too. but i really do appreciate the of the ameri i've got to say, walk on the back and i'm a general. wouldn't be important did. all they i'm a we have so many privates here ake a difference. look at our , it's -- we have 100% of and you might that be in a time when we are. hard operations tempo in both an we have such great rates. making absolutely critical decisions opportunity to lea d others. and yet they're making a real others. all really is back into ce. so we all want to wish you a great thanks giving. thanks again for your support thanks again for your support of we appre ciate what you do for us every day. host: general, we'll have to leave it there. thank you for spending some thank you for spending some time with us and for our happy thaverpbing giving thanks giving and you and the troopts in iraq. joining us on the phone this morning is patrick quinn with the associated press. i want to show our viewers this headline. government challenges afghan votes. what is happening? >> well, the afghan attorney general's office has gotten involved in the election. they're basically investigating what they think is a fraud that's gone on. today they just elected two -- arrested two employees of the elect tral commission on allegations of fraud. we're not quite sure what's going on here. the attorney general has been appointed by president karzi. they're not sure if what is going on right now is an attempt to challenge some of the results in some constituencies. we have to remember that the results were announced yesterday, the final results. and 33 of the 34 provinces. there's one province where they haven't been announced yet. so there's some speculation among officials here that someone is trying to alter the results in some of the constituencies basically because they don't favor the president right now. the parliament itself doesn't have enough of president karzi's supporters, and some people are kind of displeased with that. so we're not quite sure what is going on. but i wouldn't quite say that we're at the point of a constitutional crisis. but there is -- someone is testing the waters. the election occurred in september. they threw out votes. everybody thought this would end yesterday when they announced the final results and it seems it has not. host: what does this mean or the implication? why does it matter? guest: well, it matters because afghanistan has to have a parliament. they have to seat this parliament. people have been waiting since september. let's not forget that this is a nascent democracy. we've been here for nine years, with stability in this country, something nato has not managed to do yet. it's very important to get the government and institutions going. it's very important to have the afghan people believe in their own government. the afghan people, a lot of them think that the government is corrupt,. if they can't get their act together in parliament, i don't know how they're going to convince the afghan people that this is the way to go. host: what are you hearing about in response to this from the u.s.? will the iraqi government be hearing from president obama, from secretary of state hillary clinton guest: i'm not quite sure yet because the u.s. ambassador here has endorsed the results of the elections. what we're seeing now is an attempt by the attorney general to interfere in the election process. no one is quite sure if the attorney general has the power to do this or just to muddy the waters or confusing it even more. right now, we're at that stage. everybody endorsed the elections and the results that were announced yesterday. the u.n. has endorsed them, the united states government has endorsed them. everybody except for the attorney general and a number of people who are not elected. host: and finally, we talked to a general in iraq about how the troops are spending thanks giving there. how are the troops spending this day in afghanistan? guest: well, i can tell you that the troops in the south are fighting today. we have one service, nato service member die in a firefight somewhere in the south. marines are fighting daily, they're coming under fire. u.s. soldiers and marines are fighting in eastern afghanistan, in he will mond in kandahar. this war is unlike the iraq war that's been five years, it's not over. there are people fightic here today instead of enjoying their turkey dinners. host: and it sounds like you're working as well. are you and others that are there covering able to celebrate somehow? guest: well, we've set aside an hour or two this evening. we couldn't find a turkey, so we had to have a big chicken. host: ok. guest: yes. some of us are trying to celebrate thanks giving. but this is a very news intense place. there's a lot of news happening all the time. and we'll try but i'm not quite sure we'll make it. host: all right. thank you, sir, for your time. guest: thank you. host: we are going to be joined on christmas day from afghanistan by brigadier general gary paten who is the deputy commanding general of the u.s. army. so we'll get a full update from the general in afghanistan on christmas day. but first we want to go to r.j. rad cliff who is joining us on the phone. this is the houston chronical delay guilty on two counts. he is promising appeal. what happens next in this case? guest: wem, obviously the next thing that has to happen is that tom delay will face sentencing. they tentatively set it for december 20. he faces essentially up to a potential life in prison term for on this political money laundering charge. most of us believe the judge will give him some level of probase, which means he will never see the inside of a jail while he appeals the case. host: how long could that take? guest: tom delay got indicted in october of 2005, and then in december of 2005 the judge made a ruling that he was not going to allow the case to go forward until some issues were resolved in a pretrial appeal filed by two codefendants. and those pretrial appeals took five years. o so this appellate process could go on for years to come. host: and the prosecutor here put out a statement saying that obviously he felt the jury had the right verdict there. what happens with him in this case? does he continue to prosecute? guest: well, he was the congressman who replaced tom delay immediately after. the prosecutor is rose mary lindberg. host: my apologies. my mistake. wrong name. guest: no problem. it's early in the morning. but rose marey has promised to continue to pursue this case. john and jim have not gone to trial. they're eligible to go to trial at this point in time. and we don't know if they'll be tried together or sep ratly. and she promised to keep pursuing this case. now, to be honest, tom delay has a very good chance of having the case thrown out in the texas appellate courts because in the other cases, the third court of appeals ruled in their favor in terms of whether or not this actually constituted money laundering. and the texas high criminal court overturned the court just saying that the issue is not ripe because a jury had not yet decided and it had to be a fact-based decision. so we know already that the court that tom delay's appeal will go straight to will most likely rule in his favor and it kind of becomes a question of what the state's high criminal court does. host: all right. thank you, sir. guest: thank you. host: happy thanks giving to you. guest: you too. host: and moving on, turning to education reform. joining us at the table, samuel casey carter. with the new book on purpose. how did you come up with these and why did these four traits matter? guest: good morning, happy thanks giving. good to see you. first, that a strong belief that culture determines outcomes. that's really the headline. all across the country we've got 3 million teachers and some 115,000 schools all doing their best every day to serve 52.7 million children as best they can. what you have is often you've got people responding and reacting to what the demands of the day are. and what you've got is a simple belief that with an insistent consistent persistent vision that what is good for children that outcome will occur. so how did i come upon that? you see it in action in these great schools. second, that what you have is you've got a culture that has been commited to the children's success. you've got the third, i think maybe i've got these out of order, a nurturing but demanding culture. it's like a home. you have a school where you want what's best for the child and you're going to look the child in the eye and say you have to do better. school is hard work and you have to do hard in order to do well. those are the kinds of principles that come to life in a great school culture. host: what does that translate to? higher grades? guest: the book does three things really. says how school cultures are formed and we need to know. secondly, that school culture forms student character. all schools have a character for good or for ill that insin wuts itself into the life of the child. but the third thing, the magic here, the question you're getting at is how is it that a great school culture harnesses that achievement? when you focus on the child, the individual happiness of that child, what you're going to get is a child who knows not only what is good, which is what the strigs is all about, but that she is good. and when a child understands that and sees all of the adults in the building focused on who she is as a person, that's when this extraordinary confidence comes to life and that's when children then risk the attainment of difficult things. so the answer to your question is yes. what you see is artiss tick achievement, muse kk achievement. but, above all else, school is academic achievement. host: what about math and science? because that seems to be the big push that americans are losing our competitivenessness in those two areas. so does school culture and strong character translate to a better focus and higher grades on math and science? guest: it can. right? particularly in grade schools where we're focusing on. so the short answer to your question is, let's have these great school cultures that understand how to shape a vision where the children know what we're all striving for. let's take high tech. this high. this is not a school that appears on purpose but this is an extraordinary set of schools in california that have one of the best, most articulated visions of math and science in the country, schools that easily could have made it into this book and yet it translate into into remarkably high mantsdz and test scores. and we're losing our edge internationally. and what this book is trying to do is raise the bar. we have a can conversation in this country about the failure to educate low income inner city children. this is also saying that all schools in the nation need to step up their game because right now on the trends of the third mathematics, international science study, the gold standard of where america stacks up competitively worldwide, host: step up their game. how so? guest: the united states of america needs to understand that the children in school today are competing for the same jobs with children worldwide. my daughters are nine and seven years old today have to compete or will have to compete very soon in the future with children in mumbai. in singapore, and we need to understand that. if we can't compete with those children, if we don't have the same skills and content, and the ability to apply the math and science questions, if we don't have the ability to apply those skills that we learn this school to real world examples. then our children won't be able to provide the products and service that is the world is the going to need in the future and those children in singapore and mumbai are going to be able to take those jobs away, not just from others out there but from my very own daughters. host: so are you saying that money doesn't matter? guest: nice question. i'm not saying that money doesn't matter. i am saying, though, that in the first instance, let's take the question from two angles. first, does money matter in schools? we spent half a trillion dollars a year every year in the united states of america educating children 5 to 18. i say we don't need more money. we need to reallocate that money. we need to spend that money better. but let's take the money doesn't matter question differently. the book is called on purpose. the point of that is that we need to do things on purpose. we need to intentionally bring about a certain kind of schooling in order to get the kinds of outcomes that we want for children. but when we think more broadly about what is a school for, what do we do in schools? this book argues that we're trying to help children discover their own life's purpose. sure, money matters, margin meashts. no margin, no mission we say in business. but if children don't wake up every day and want to discover who they are and aren't told to believe in themselves, it's very difficult for them to then naturally wantingly to obtain the skills that will then give them the skillset that they need to make money that they need in the workplace. host: so to write this book you went to 12 different schools. what type of schools did you go to? guest: started with 3,500 schools. and the performance data associated with those schools all across the country. narrowed that down to 350. to focus on schools that have extraordinary outcomes, whether that be academic, athletic, musical or otherwise. but that have a schoolwide focus on character formation, on the formation of the child. and from that 350, then did a comparative study of 39 of them . to then come up with these 12. and the great thing about these 12, the whole purpose of selecting these 12 were to find the most geographic, demographic, diverse schools that we could find. so we found two that are private, two that are public charters, three that are public mag neths. and then the other five are local public schools in nine separate states, east, south, west, midwest. and the whole point is to then show that this can be done in any school setting in america. right? but that what we need to do is see what greatness looks like, remind ourselves what a great school can do, and then give everybody the encouragement to shape school cult zurs. host: students, teachers, parents, numbers on the screen for you. we want to hear from students, teachers, parents this morning. our topic, education reform. and you were talking about the different types of schools, private, public, charter, magnet. it sounds like the government and school is not all that clear when it comes to schools that are thriving. guest: that's a good point. let's get to the question behind the point. the reality is that 90%, 9-0 of all the children in the united states today go to public schools. public schools of different kinds. the role of government does matter in the formation of the young because the large balance of children in our schools are going to government schools. what i wanted to do is demonstrate that there are private schools, public charters, different mechanisms to get at great outcomes. and you're right, it is not necessarily the role of government that then drives these outcomes and in fact one very important point about this book is that there are barriers to getting more schools of this kind. and in fact, this book goes to great lengths to demonstrate that what we need to do is reward, encourage and start the formation of more schools like this. and that gets to the question of whether or not the 15,000 school districts in the united states of america are always and everywhere driving quality. >> host: so what type of principle are at these schools? guest: tremendous question. and school leadership is absolutely essential to great schooling. what on purpose does though it takes it to another level and says school leadership is necessary but in itself is insufficient. and what this is really about is great teaching. and on purpose is a real more testimony to the peachers in these schools where that leadership is more distributed more broadly to a larger number of people who believe in the same vision as the school leader and then who work together as team players. teachers who work in teams. teachers who work to obtain the same measurable goal are the kinds of teachers in these schools that get these incredible outcomes for children. host: so part of the traits is this it sounds like the culture part of it is sort of a voluntary action on the part of teachers or leaders in the school. so what, where does that come from and how is that fostered? guest: the book makes some effort in the beginning to say that schools are forme in a very certain way. and i say that schools and the school culture is formed almost invariably as a reaction to something. there's a remarkable story of hillsdale central in illinois just outside of chicago where the entire student body or the entire community led by the principal was then guided by the vice principal and the teachers to recoax the school after a tragic accident -- not an accident. after a suicide of wo students in what was a very mean, bullying school. the formation of school culture is a reaction to them saying, look, with need to do things differently. now, let's take the school in the inner city of chicago, in the inner city of milwaukee. these are schools that are reacting to the street culture saying we don't want that for our children. we want something better. so in reacting to that, responding to that and saying we need very basic principles to guide what we do want in response to that, that then the principal through the leadership then all of the teachers coming together say, ok, let's then establish basic practices that will help bring those principles to life. that's when it happens. so everybody starts changing, we talk differently, dress delinchtly, behave delinchtly. that's what we mean by a culture. low and behold, all of a sudden children are in a place that's very coherent, where everything they hear throughout the day is the same. and then they say this is the way we do things in our school. we're not going to be mean. we're going to take care of each other. children are safe to take the risks to do the great things that i write about. host: go ahead, kimberly. caller: my question is, i'm calling from florida and i want to know how do we challenge this character when we don't have these programs that allow the students to be a part of character building? everything is about s cat drinch. guest: great question. and for our listeners who aren't in florida, the f cat is the florida achievement test and a great question. if you have time, go to port stnch john florida and go see for yourself atlantis elementary which is featured a great school there on the space coast not so far from cape canaveral where they use the culture getting back to our science and math conversation earlier surrounding manned space flight in order to drive so much of the values driven culture. but to your question. you're right. if we have a, just this prevalent focus on test scores and test scores alone, it's going to be difficult for us to then focus on the children. and you've already put your finger on it. if there is one insight in this book, it's that when we focus on anything else but the children, what we end up doing is then just responding to whether it's the needs of the building, the needs of the book, the needs of the buses. rather than the needs of the children. now, i'm not saying that the f cat does not matter. it doesn't matter. but the way that you max that score out of the park is by making sure the children are happy first, making sure that they know why they come to school. make sure that they know why they're pursuing their subject. and it's in going back and having the focus on what matters that then that f cat score will just rise. i'm not just being hopeful and optimistic about it. it's a fact. great schools focus on children, not the tests. host: parent in st. joe texas. you're on the air. caller: good morning. i have a statement and then a question for you. first, i think that school, going to school is -- should be considered an opportunity, and right now it seems we have very little parent involvement in so many cases that kids don't do well in school because there's poor discipline, it's a distraction for those children who would like to go to school. so i think if we had an atmosphere of class for learning, i think that all the kids would do better. and after school programs could not only help keep kids off the street, but it could, i think, influence them heavily to want to make better use of opportunities in school, and that children -- school should not be the baby sitter for our children. i think that with parent involvement, that's a big part of the answer. and a request i would make is that if c-span could cover something about prohibition on drugs, i think that, again, rather than be a nanny state we should be a state that educates our children against the use of drugs rather than locking everybody up. host: we'll leave it there. guest: thank you for the call. thank you for the question. just a number of really important points that you make simultaneously. one, school has an opportunity. and what you're doing there is you're getting at the hopeful message of this book, on purpose. children do need to see that school is an opportunity. we might go so far as to say school is a privilege. and on thanks giving, you know, what a better day for us to remember that we live in possibly the only super power in the planet right now. and in order to live in free society, in order to live in a democracy that we have, tom, we need to be educated. and you're right, like yourself, i don't believe in the nanny state. and in fact, i think i believe in the greatness of america. and one of the things that makes america great is our public school system. but it can be better. and that's the point. and when children come to school knowing that this is a place of opportunity and this is a place that's going to make their opportunities in america greater, well then we'll get the kinds of achievement we'll want to see. let's get to your point about parentle involvement. to remove the excuse of poverty. children don't get to see their parents very often because those parents are either, a, holding down three jobs in order to be able to keep them in the home. or those children are out of the home and the primary involvement is limited. let's not make the absence of parental involvement become an excuse for failure. let's not make schools one-stop-shopping for social service, t but let's be clear that children are in schools for a large portion of the day, and therefore schools have to be places where children are safe and where children are raised well, not in the absence of their parents but in partnership with their parents, if that helps. host: we go to new york. steve, you're a teacher. what grade do you teach? [inaudible] guest: i want to say i agree arks and happy thank giving. the reason i'm calling is that i work in a school that i think is a very good school, and when i started there ten years ago, if the kids were reading and doing math at grade level. and as of last year, up until that year we had gotten up to about 80% reading and doing math at grade level. and then last year the school was back down to 50%. and i think the reason is political. that they change the scores to look like they're under grade level so that they could qualify for more federal aid, for the race to the top money. and it's not a race. it's a right. and so happy thanks giving, everybody. host: happy thanks giving. i'm a teacher, my wife is the a teacher. i think that teaching is the single intrinsically the most beautiful thing you can do with your life. congratulations to you on this thanks giving for an incredible vocation that you're pursuing. let's get to some of the points that you're making. don't know obviously the circumstances of your school and what can explain the fall from 80% proficiency to 50% proficiency or advance on what i take to be the new york state assessment. but a broader point that you're making is that no child left behind, the federal law that was passed under the bush administration which set the basic expectation that every single child in the united states of america would be proficient or advance that is on grade level or above by the year 2014 has not resulted in more and more children in america being proficient but it has resulted in us changing the definition of profishsy and often lowering it. and you are right, we're being inconsistent in the management and the administration, one, of what it means to be on or above grade level. two, how to assess whether we're on or above grade level. and then, three, how we get children there. so you're making a broad point that our listeners and viewers today need to understand, which is, yes, a lot of this is politically driven and these norms are established at state levels. but what we can do is if we have a broader vision of what real success looks like, which gets back to your point earlier about international competitiveness. if we have a basic understanding of what the highest performing public schools in the world expect, if we know what math in singapore and astonia and honghong and tie pay looks like, we're going to have a much better chance of making sure that children in cleveland, cincinnati, san francisco, washington, d.c. can apply instead of just over and over having these back and forth smaller level conversations about what fix grade or fourth grade reading might look like in new york. host: student in los angeles. what grade are you in? caller: i'm 28 and but want to talk about high school and the troubles i had. teachers, first i want to say public education is a must and we do need to step up our game around the world. and host: turn that down. it's a little confusing. guest: i believe that teachers aren't getting paid enough a lot of times. i've had really good teachers, really bad teachers in my high school experience. i've had teachers put out of their own pocket to help out in the class. but host: let's take your point there about teachers not getting paid enough. guest: good point. thanks for the call. happy thanks giving to you. so the question are teachers paid enough. let's break it down again. the point i made earlier half a trillion dollars an awful lot of money, and yet teachers in the united states of america are often among the low income spectrum of all employed professionals. so, yes, teachers could be paid more. but it's going to be difficult for us to pay teachers more for us to have merit pay or performance pay systems unless that money gets reallocated from elsewhere. and right now, one of the points that charter schools has made across the country is that charter schools, the 5,500 of them now are doing more with less. and charter schools, particularly those that are independently run are often receiving across the country 60 cents on the dollar. yet, so we don't necessarily need more money, but if we're going to pay teachers more, we're going to have to make sure that money gets freed um, from, i would argue the layers of bureaucracy between the individual school buildings and then the school district. the school district and the state, the state then and the federal allocation. of those funds. . . host: you look at all different types of schools, public, private, charter. what about the role of unions? guest: the simple way to address that is 3 million teachers in america, most of whom are unionized. we will have to figure out a way for unions to see and understand and believe and act on this message, that when they are team players, when teachers and a union be a flight team players -- teachers in a union behave like team players, trying to elevate the overall profession, which is what i talk about -- let's talk about unions less and professionals and more. about professionals to work together to up each other's game. individual teachers that i have the time to see the great teaching down the hall and provide observation to reach other. when the teacher is closed in an individual classroom, the teacher does not have the feedback that she needs to know whether or not she is performing well that day. when schools were deeply and when teachers work closely with each other to improve because of practice, to know where the child is today and needs to be tomorrow and change the teaching to get the child there, that is when we see great teaching. this is not an anti-union message, this is not a pro-union message, is a goat-teaching message. the unions, if it -- pro- teaching message to the unions, if it wanted to be paid -- they want teachers to be paid more, have to find ways to have the money freed up. guest: ok, there is the advertisement for that. i believe choice is our real driver of quality in america. i choose to drive fleet calthe i do, i choose to buy milk for my children in the grocery store. those are independent choices, and to the extent that tries to improve quality and drive down cost, -- that choice can improve quality and drive down cost, it is free enterprise in america. if we could more and more vote with our feet, children would more and more go to schools that would be good for them. the simplest thing we can do today is have into-district twice, allow children to go to any school -- inter-district choice, allow children to go any school in their district. host: bradford is a teacher in cincinnati, ohio. what grade you teach? caller: sophomore. host: what subject? caller: history. what can we do do practically change the culture of the school from the assessment culture we have on the date is to the more character, culture baseis that t sounds like you are speaking about in your book? i was working on this type idea in my school. guest: let's take your question apart slightly and let's not have it be in opposition. let's not say that we have -- this is similar to what we are talking about earlier. we want to have a culture of character first so that we can then harness the character of the children to drive great outcomes for them. let's be really clear about this. it is the human person, the human heart, our individual character that is the greatest engine of creativity and productivity in the world. it is in harnessing human potential that we get extraordinary outcomes, whatever those be to that is true in the workplace and it is true in school. what i am not saying, and what your question might suggest, is that we have to leave the culture of testing the height and move it to a culture of character, because it sounds like we might be moving behind measurable attainment. i am not saying that. i am saying to put that focus on the children first one thing you need to do is get assessments right. you probably need to have a greater focus on what the child knows today in order to then really get the child to the test score if you want. i hope that at least the balance i am trying to present is clear. it is when you focus on the good of the child and you get everybody working in that direction, the test scores will rise. host: atlanta, georgia. frank is a parent. caller: am i on? host: you are, you are on the air. caller: your first call from fort lauderdale -- i grew up and went to school in fort lauderdale. i still in the state and trying to duplicate the experience i had -- i am still to the state trying to duplicate the experience i had with my own children to the library open until 6:00 at night. and the students were empowered by the teachers. the teachers were more like family than anything else. we did not want to disappoint them. guest: nice. it just so many good operations there. all of us think that we're experts -- so many good observations there. all of us think we're experts on school because we all went to school, and i'd like your point because there is truth to that. to the degree that we up positive for formation, that is the degree we can give a positive reinforcement in our life. there are over 1000 schools in the united states, so i'm a bit of an advocate of this myself. i like to point on family that you make, frank, and it is when children feel like their school is more like a family and they have the comfort level, again, the point i've been making, they take risks and do difficult things, whether it be in sports, music or academics. but the point you are really making is that went teachers teach other like family, but children see that. the children respond to that. they become team players themselves in the classroom. you also get a school that earns the right to extend itself into the home. it is when teachers be if my family and the students feel like they are part of a cohesive part of school and that families want to be part of the school. host: on your choice comments -- guest: yes. host: why not? guest: it was the point i was making earlier. if there is something we can do in this country quickly in order to inspire, and courage, put the heat on, it would be to have a choice. you are right. in most of america, we don't have scored twice the sad reality is that -- in most of america, we don't have a school choice. the sad reality is that we are segregated in most of america. we have to pack up and move our house to go to a school, and most americans don't have that opportunity. host: barry is another teacher and pennsylvania. what. are you in, what grade you teach? caller: elementary, i teach fourth grade. i am a product of catholic schools. i taught there before moving to public school. i heard the author mentioned private schools, but i did not hear specifically catholic schools. i'm curious, considering the culture of character and the thing else -- and everything else -- i'm wondering what the comparisons were there. guest: tremendous question, and thank you for it. i, too, and a product of catholic schools, here in washington, d.c. there were hundreds and hundreds of schools that could have appeared in this book. just a quick side now. -- side note. one of the most extraordinary stories of education today is a catholic school network headquartered out of chicago, illinois, 24 high schools across the country, were children, largely low-income, largely latino, go to school a four days a week, and then one day a week ago to a drop in corporate america. -- and one day a week go to a job in corporate america. financially sustainable catholic schools, and the credible experience where children to learn from adults and in the workplace. let's get back to your question. catholic schools in the country to focus on character first. you are right about that. in the inner city, where 430- plus years the catholic -- church as catholicfor 30-plus years -- for 30-plus years the catholic church as subsidize education, and now it is in the inner city, 80% of the children who go to catholic schools are non-catholics. those families are choosing to send children to those schools because they want the culture of character worst. that is an important lesson of our people to know. -- the what the culture of character first. that is an important lesson for people to the tragedy is that we have catholic schools closing. out and we have more schools like that where they have a culture of character first and watched the great outcomes that come? host: we have some of the students were talking about as insurance at c-span -- interns at c-span. guest: a great experience for them, i'm sure. host: "how do we expect students to become educated if we expect them to fill out abcd on tests?" "would you be in favor of a national test and national curriculum?" guest: standards, calling them uniform expectations for children, versus being educated -- this is one of these false dichotomies, or false alternatives, the people present in a discussion of education reform. in order for somebody to have a liberal education and to understand and command a high level all of the skills and content that i am talking about, they first at a lower level have to meet a basic standard and is the expectation. -- and basic expectation. the way i put it over and over again is that it is necessary but not proficient. we need more. this next question about a national curriculum on national testing -- you can imagine people really rallied against that and said no, allow us to choose. you can imagine me rallying against that. let's have the schools of individual character, let's let them teach what they want to teach, have people vote with their feet and go to schools of their choice. yes and no. yes in that we want that kind of kind ofty, and that creativity in schooling, but a basic expectation of what is expected first we have a national curriculum with national standards. if you go to the united kingdom today, you will see all kinds of schools. the church of england is one of the largest providers of public education in the united kingdom. why? they have a national curriculum and standards. so much of the church of versus state the day in america if we had a national curriculum and standards, because we could say that anybody who could meet the standard and provide this level of education could do it for the and with public dollars. -- to it freely and with public dollars. host: quick update on north korea and south south korea plans to beef up security after the yeonpyeong attack. and warnings of more retaliation. sherri, independent in kansas. caller: i am a kindergarten teacher's aide and we try to build character. but we can do this all day long as five days a week, but if they don't have trouble support -- if they don't have parental support at home, it is lost. host: what age you build a culture and character in kindergarten? how'd you do that? caller: we have to emphasize responsibility, we have -- honesty, responsibility, all those characters that a person needs as they grow up. we try to instill that in our kids. i work for a school that is kindergarten through second grade. if we do this five days a week every day, and on the weekends they don't have that support at home, a lot of them don't, then it is lost. what is the answer to that? host: do you talk to the parents about what you're doing? caller: oh, yes. guest: just a whole lot in your observations. we had the brigadier-general on an earlier on this day of thanksgiving. thinking soldiers for your service, and we want to thank you for your service. teaching is the best thing you can do with your life. on this day of thanksgiving, just always so grateful for teachers everywhere. so many points that you make. you mentioned a number of the practices that are associated with the forming of a school cat cultures the form character. to pull it out and make explicit, those are good practices. but i wanted to say two things before i get to your point about parental involvement, because the point you are making about rental and fault is that we can work all day long in schools, -- parental involvement is that we can work all day long and schools, but if the children go home and lose it at home, what can we do? i don't you to despair, because you are not alone. do you talk to the parent about that, and you said yes -- that is the partnership that you need to keep pushing on. the parents don't leave a good children at home. they do the very best they can have. they are trying their best, and we have to believe that. and holding them accountable. if we all believe in our hearts that parents are doing the very best for their children, the very -- if we don't believe in our hearts that parents are during the b -- are doing the very best for their children, we tell them. grade schools have the courage to tell parents when they are doing well and what parents can do better. i know that is a very, very hard message. you are trying to teach these the children day in and day out. i always look at kindergartens first, a kindergarten and first grade. you have the opportunity to form those children well and do good work. host: samuel casey carter, author of the book "on purpose." thanks for sharing your thanksgiving with our viewers. appreciate it. coming up, we will turn our attention to government a purchase to reducing poverty. first, our newsmaker this week is norm coleman, the former senator from minnesota, and talks about his advice to alaskan republican senate candidate joe miller. >> i am listening to what he is saying, that they used the same standards to count ballots that were not counted on election night that are now being counted. i had some of those concerns in minnesota on a much, much closer race, in which all the ballots were counted -- i won when the work recounted -- when they were recounted. i understand his concern, but i will be very straightforward here -- i think that race is over. i think the counting has been done and i i'm not sure there is anything that could change that. let's not go any further. at a certain point in time, you have to have some finality to these things. i made my decision and that was my decision. without criticizing joe miller, i would offer him advice, the same advice that fred thompson and others offered recently. i think it should be time to move on, that there's not much you can gain by extending the process. has been extended. they have done this account of the absentee ballots. probably time to move on rather than him in the sheeting and other legal proceeding. host: jodie levin-epstein is the deputy director -- oh, excuse me. let me tell you about "newsmakers" on your screen. sunday at 10:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. eastern time to tune in to watch more of that interview with norm coleman. now let me introduce our guest. jodie levin-epstein is the step reidy director at the center for law and social policy -- deputy director at the center for law and social policy. first, the stimulus and how that impacted poverty levels but what did that do? guest: the stimulus bill was vital throughout government at the federal and state level to provide funds to a variety of programs that would get to families and get into communities to stabilize communities as the great recession was hitting. we know that a variety of programs have reduced poverty substantially, about to the tune of 11 million persons more would be poor if we count it as income the income from unemployment insurance, tax credits, the earned income tax credits, the child tax credits. if account all those people and the income they got, you would have 11 more people poor that in 2010, and that number was 44 million, a record number. these programs work. they really worked well at reducing poverty. the challenge is that we have too many poor people in our nation today. host: what about the argument we cannot afford this? "reason" magazine argues that it encourages people to spend more but that most people use the windfall to increase savings or pay down debt. guest: it depends who the people are. it is not the case that if you are hungry and given a dollar, you don't spend it on food. you have to. what we know from the data is that every dollar of unemployment insurance, you use that dollar right back into the economy and it generates $2 out for every dollar of unemployment insurance. similarly, for food stamps, every dollar generates money back into the economy. if you are really tuned don't need that dollar to buy a gallon of milk, you don't -- if you are really rich and don't need that knowledge about a gallon of milk, you don't spend on 8 gal. of milk you might buy some stock with it. host: on the state level, since states are facing budget shortfalls and don't have the money to provide, what is happening with poverty? guest: poverty in the states around the country is increasing as a result of the impact of the great recession? fortunately, the recovery act itself provides funds to give relief to states. there was an additional infusion last august. the challenge is that states have to meet their budgets each year and states are very much in the hole. they are really having a tough time generating enough income -- by the way, 30 states have in recent years increase their tax base because they know they need revenue to meet the issues they are confronting. across the nation, states are making dramatic cuts in health care, education, you name it. alzheimer's programs in georgia, for example, have been cut. bus routes to schools are being canceled. we need to continue, and congress needs to help by continuing to find ways and find funds to help states meet the budgets. it does not help if the state implodes and does not have the ability to provide services, and across the state, they are looking for ways to save money, but those all hurt often. government employees at the state level are responsible for managing programs that help poor families and communities, and are often finding themselves furloughed or fired. we need a federal government to assume its role and responsibility to the states to continue to find ways to aid this recovery, because it is going to be a very long time coming before we are back to what we have come to enjoy before this recession, which was a 5.5% unemployment rate, 9.6% now. people the people get to 5.5 until 2014. that is an extraordinary, historic low and sluggish economy for this nation. we have a lot to figure out. host: let me go through the federal and state programs part of the stimulus bill. $19.5 million in expanded earned income tax credit, for hundred dollars per person tax credit for low ---4 harbor dollars per person tax credit for low income workers, 13% increase in food stamp benefits over several years. $1.5 billion over five years for homelessness prevention. additional emergency compensation benefits. the last one will expire on november 30. what else is set to expire? guest: a lot of them are set to expire. let's focus on the one you are mentioning, the unemployment insurance program. this is a vital lifeline for workers. this nation values its workers. if we don't continue this program, 2 million people in december will have no help, even though they have been working. we want to support their ability to re-enter the job market. when congress has this before them the last time and lagged in getting benefits right away to people who need them, the stories out of illinois tell it well. there is a story of a woman who got herself unemployed at the period when congress was not giving these federal benefits to unemployed workers. what happened? she became behind in payments for her car. the good news is was she got a job after looking and looking hard pit she got the job, but what happened is two weeks since the top, her car, because she had not been able to make a car payment, was repossessed. she lost the job. we must be there for people when they need this help. across america, support for providing unemployment insurance for everybody who is running out. host: jodie levin-epstein is our guest this morning. we're talking about government purchased reducing poverty. the phone numbers are on at the screen. our guest is the deputy director for the center for law and social policy. your group also has programs trying to help the poor. what are they? guest: we worked across an array of issues to identify policies that support low income families ranging from child care to child welfare to job creation, you'd strategy for employment, connecting communities. we have a variety of programs and initiatives. we encourage everybody to check us out at clasp.org. we also have a program we manage called spotlight on poverty and opportunity, which is eight one- stop shop where folks can find out any information that they are interested in with regard to data, research, the latest news. what is especially excited about this site, spotlightonpo verty.org, is that it's a platform for republicans, democrats, independents to offer their solutions for a wide array of issues we confront today. low-income elders, access to post secondary education, early childhood education, and how the absence of early childhood education means that people who are young and poor may not in fact make it into the middle class. it is a one-stop shop, easily accessible, anything you need at your fingertips. host: robert on the republican line, new york. go ahead. caller: if there is no job for people to work, how will they come up with a strategy? how will they can afford to increase their wealth? could you answer that please? guest: there are things congress needs to do to ensure that jobs are created. right now the situation is that for every person looking for a job called for every job, actually, there are five people looking for that job. that means there are a lot of people who will knock on doors and have them slammed in their face. if you have one job and five people looking for it, that is a lot of slammed doors. congress has got to get into the business of creating jobs. what opportunity congress missed but needs to put back on the front burner is the emergency fund, and through this program, the government achieves 250,000 new jobs for people. it was a partnership with the private-sector, so that there were employers around the country who used the government subsidy to hire unemployed people and put them to work. the great news is that the public is really behind this. about 80% of the public really wants this program. it is shared enthusiastically by both republicans and democrats, notably haley barbour, the governor of mississippi, who has come out in favor of this program and continuing it. congress has the opportunity to put this back on the stove, the front burner, before it recesses in december, and to extend this program for another year. the public wants it, it crosses out there. the private sector wants it. in a petition sent to congress, about 2000 employers from around the country in over half the states in the nation signed a petition telling congress to act to continue this public-private partnership that everybody wants to congress this means to wake up and smell the roses. here is a program that works. here is a program that everybody wants. let's get it on the books before 2010 ends. host: kenny, a democrat, arkansas. caller: i appreciate your show. republicans ought to see how long they can last without unemployment. host: des moines, iowa, jackie, also a democrat. caller: 1 person would say that it is a recession and another one -- it is not a recession and another one on the same shote says it is one. which one is true? guest: that is a great question. it is a technical answer. the recession ended tactically. groups made the judgment based on what is happening with gross domestic product, and they made a technical decision that the economy is improving. what they don't judges how people are dealing with the after-effects and the continuing effects of the recession. that is what people are talking -- that is why people are talking both ways. technically it has ended, but the effects are still continuing. it is a really long recovery from this particular recession. unemployment is very, very sticky. we are at 9.6%. we have been above 9% for 18 at once. again, some people project we will not be back at 5.5% unemployment, which is where we were before the recession hit, until around 2014. that is something new and different for our nation. we need leaders to address unemployment. of the people who are unemployed now, this year, 44% have been unemployed for at least six months, and 1/4 four a year. that is hard on families, communities, and new strategies to address long-term unemployment. host: independent line, you are next. caller: i am an independent. i've been unemployed for over a year. i was told about three weeks ago that i was no longer felt entitled to unemployment. i try to explain person at the unemployment office -- explain to a real person at the unemployment office that i sent out 35 resumes and at one interview. the woman did not get off her chair. she looked at me and said, "you are so grim and fragile- looking." what does that have to do with my work ethic? guest: i want to thank the caller for sharing the personal story and the pain that goes with that. i am sorry that you have been told your unemployment insurance has run out, and the story you are sharing is one that is being felt across america. when we talk about the 9.6 unemployment rate, we are not including any that the number of people who were so discouraged that, unlike you, sending out resumes and getting out and having interviews, they are so discouraged in their communities and potentially it is a community of extremely high unemployment and zero jobs available, that they have stopped knocking on doors. that rate shows that we are in a really sluggish economy, and more people are going to be experiencing the stories you are experiencing. i hope you will keep up your gumption, keep knocking on doors and have looked soon. that is what thanksgiving is about. let's hope you have much more luck in the weeks ahead. host: here is charts from lot "usa today" article that ran earlier this year. ththe percentage of people livig on poverty, which the government defined as household income of $21,954 or less for a family of four is at 14.3%. little changed in household income from 2009. murray on the republican line. go ahead. -- maria on the republican line. go ahead. caller: i was listening to the program this morning, and the lady was talking about the economy and how we can help the economy. i thought she made a statement that if people bought stock, that would not do much to help the economy. i was just wondering about that. host: when you heard it on this television program? guest: i believe you are referencing the comment i made. it helps the economy more when someone goes to the store, and this is just an ulster to example -- an illustrative example -- you go to the store and buy milk and go to the checking line, and if 50 people are doing that, the owner will be able to stock more food and have more staff and expand the program. if someone buys stock over the securities exchange and its that is not employing many people in our system. with the emergency fund, that helped an employer who ran a coffee shop in pennsylvania, because she was able to hire a handful of people using that emergency fund, a private sector, public sector joint program. that enabled her to thrive at the coffee shop. she invested in building another coffee shop. this is exactly what we want to happen with subsidized jobs and job creation. we need more of that, programs and efforts that invest in creating more jobs, not more wealth for wealthy people. there is nothing wrong with having wealth. but we need to put our limited dollars and creating structures that allow employers to expand businesses and to build new businesses. that is what we need and want. host: "reason" magazine writes this about the stimulus, that it does not increase aggregate consumption . the government has to take money out of the economy, whether by increasing taxes, printing money, growing inflation. guest: well, that is an opinion, and not one i share. we have a deficit, a deficit commission that issued a report, and has numerous other reports that have recently been issued. i think we have a long-term picture that we have to address. in some of those reports and recommendations, you are also hearing recommendations of that we need to be healthy as we go into a dressing the long-term deficit issue. we have to take care of the problem we immediately are facing, which is the current the fact of the recession. -- current defects of the recession. a lot of people are promoting strategies to be pursued to enhance the recovery, and not to have it terminate when the recovery act programs are scheduled and slated to end. for example, another example that soon, we may have before us a loss of 300,000 in child care head start on this the recovery act provisions are continued. unless those slots continue, parents cannot hold on to their jobs, and we will have more of a spiraling negative effect, more of a downward trend in the nation. in order to be healthy -- let's say to run the marathon of dealing with the deficit over the long term, we need to have our energy and be in good shape. we are not in good shape right now by any means. to get in good shape and be ready for that marathon of dealing with the deficit in the long term, we need to power up. to power up, you need to continue the recovery act provisions that are helping us stay in jobs, get jobs, create jobs. that means that stuff needs to be done to power up right now before we deal with the deficit. host: bloomington, indiana, democratic line. caller: good morning. happy thanksgiving. guest: happy thanksgiving to you. caller: bankthank you very much. levinlling the lady, ms. -- you are doing what i always innted to do, to work t the legal profession and help poor people. guest: confession, i am not a lawyer. caller: ok. well, that is what i always wanted to do. i admire what you are doing. he said that what poor people need to do is be put to work -- you said that what poor people need to do is to be put to work. people are working, but they're not working for a living wage. we need to focus on the wages that people are receiving and what they have to pay for rent. if people are put to work -- for example, i live in a public housing project, and when people go to work, the man goes up -- rent goes up. what poor people make is sucked up by the righent -- host: we have to leave it there. guest: i want to thank the caller for raising an important issue. it is important to have jobs and good work, but it is important that the work pays a livable wage. it is unbelievable that people can work full-time, fully year, and still remain in poverty, which happens if you are living in a family and earning minimum wage. that is astonishing. we have of value in this nation that said the people who go to work ought to be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor. if you are working full time, full year round, and you are still in poverty under the official definition of poverty, which sets party quite low for a family of four -- about $22,000 a year in income, $22,000. what we're facing in the united states is an increasing number of people, particularly in light of this recession, who are living and what is called extreme poverty, which is half that amount. a family of four is living on roughly $11,000 of income a year. we have far too many, about 42%, of those who live in poverty living in extreme poverty. this is a growing sector. wages that really pay said that people are not trapped, like you feel you have been and others have been, by jobs that don't enable you to get ahead. we want jobs that are stepping stones to better paying jobs. too often people get their foot in the door but stuck, because the wages don't increase over time. i hope you do get that law degree, though. host: chris on the independent'' line, michigan. caller: jodie, your message this morning is the reason why independents voted the way we but at this time, big government is the answer, etc. why would we buy into a second stimulus if the first one did not work? he makes statements like -- you make statements like, "people invest in stocks." what kind of government in disarray would allow people to buy stocks with the money -- that money? and 61% of the money going back into the economy -- i contend if we keep our money, 100% will go back into the economy. small businessmen will invest, small business people create jobs. people are very charitable in the united states. i have seen people who get their money and use their charity to causes that they believe in and not have the government tell them how to take their money and to what charity to contribute to. your arguments are very confusing. host: before you go, i want to get your reaction to a "washington times" article this morning -- "stimulus. work for millions -- stimulus created work for millions,", the congressional budget office. i want to get your reaction to what they are saying, that without the stimulus package, the unemployment rate would have been 10.4% and 11.6%, and that it create jobs. how do you react to that? caller: well, at the same time, the unemployment is still 9.8%. we still have a lot of people out of work. jodie contends that we may not see 5% until the year 2014. so those jobs, we all know, our government jobs. people who are not government employees are paying more to pay them. it is just a never-ending cycle of non-solutions, as far as i can see. guest: i think another way of looking at the data that does not read to you -- that just got read to you is that the recovery act has succeeded of reducing unemployment, but it has not finished the job. what we need to do is finish the job and do some more. why you are having a hard time, i think, is that this recovery is not as fast as the ones you have lived through before. that is because this recession is not like the ones we have lived through before. it was the housing bubble had burst, and everything fell apart and we are trying to recover. it is very sticky. unemployment is staying around. but what you also need to hear is that the government investments are often investments that are public- private ventures. small businesses, for example, are around the country have taken advantage of the opportunity provided by the federal government's to hire people in their community who are unemployed. the emergency fund, for example. without that tanf emergency fund money, we know that 250,000 people would not have been as readily employed. that is a great thing for small businesses, and that is why 2000 of them sent a petition to congress saying to keep this program going, don't let it die, bring it back. host: ryan tweets in, agrees with you. here is, though, an e-mail from a viewer. guest: i don't share that view. i share the view that we have a lot of challenges ahead of us, but a lot of opportunity. i suggest, for example, that when we take a look at what could be done with the expiring bush tax credit and taxes, that we do take advantage of the fact that the wealthy on those over 250,000, can be bett -- can better afford to observe some taxes and go back to the way things were once upon a time. but that would mean for the nation is $1 trillion over 10 years. that trillion dollars could help businesses hire more people we could create new programs, subsidized jobs, we can create other strategies for encouraging an incentivizing hiring new workers, and we can get ourselves out of this recession by using this dollars wisely and immediately, and that tackling a deficit. host: minneapolis, ralph on the democratic line. caller: good morning, c-span. thank you for having this conversation. you know, you mentioned a couple of statistics. number one, the jobs, percentage rate for african-americans. also, there was a statistic on one of the programs, title 1 program, funded through some of the stimulus funding that focuses on children who have been identified in poverty, to supplement their education. here in minneapolis, the state of minnesota, we have one of the most horrendous situations and the country, and these programs, which do have good intent -- the money that is provided -- actually, i am concerned about the monitoring and oversight of this money, because it is good to have good intent with money and to support good programs that are designed to help people move forward, but when you see a tremendous amount of waste, and that often times moves into the category of illegal expenditures of this money, because of the lack of oversight, i just don't see where we're going to move forward. i think some of the things you are talking about is excellent, but i also think that maybe your organization -- maybe a part of your organization should be used to make a concerted effort to have lobbying for regulation and oversight of this money that is designed to help many people in need. host: that was ralph in minneapolis, democratic caller. go ahead. [laughter] guest: 0, i thought you just saying he had an observation. most governors, when the recovery act was established, creed said double commissions or subcabinet positions -- created a state-local commissions or subcabinet positions to monitor the dollars in the state. i would encourage you in minnesota and those listening and other states to go to the governor's websites to see if there is a subcommittee that is reporting on the actual expenditures and reporting on how those monies are being used. that is a very important question. right now the story, though, in washington is that too many of these programs are set to expire when the effects of the recession still continue as deeply and profoundly as they have in too many communities. with respect to the issue of the disparity, let me draw your attention to an intesting report called "the measure of america," which is a different way of looking at how we're doing. you can get a copy of it and link to it by going to spotlightonpoverty, says that when we look at well-being, we need to consider much more than just income property. that is what the federal government currently does. we look at income poverty. the measure of america says to look at human development. we need to look across not just in time, but also health status and educational status. take a look across all of our three broad indicators and make a judgment about how will we are doing in the united states. the bottom line take away is one that you observed, which is that there is significant disparity in each of those areas in too many of the indicators. i think that we have a lot to do in making sure that we address this growing disparity about our nation. host: we have a few minutes left with our guest, jodie levin- epstein, deputy director at the center for law and social policy. wayne county, michigan, michael on the republican line. caller: good morning. i am a 53-year-old disabled veteran, come out of the military in 1976, injured, one right to work, raise a family, had several hospital stays with major surgery on my back over the years, ended up disabled. never did i think the government owed me a living, which seems to be, you know, the fad these days. instead of the government encouraging people to work hard and sacrifice, we have half the people thinking the government is going to pay their bills for them. guest: first, i want to thank you put your service and hope that you have found a strategy so that you are not in as much pain as your back is probably giving you. i hope this thanksgiving day is bringing you together with family and friends. i don't think people expect the government to give them a handout. i think the government, which is responsible for setting interest rates and export import policies -- when the government is responsible for our security and our safety, it is unable to generate jobs, that the government will first and foremost a good job creation -- a first and foremost put job creation on its agenda. we need the government to create those jobs so that the private sector will expand. the private sector is enjoying record profit rates and other corporate -- record profit rates in the third quarter. the growth is substantial but people are not feeling that because jobs are not being greeted to bring them out of poverty and keep them in the middle-class. that is a big challenge, to get those jobs going so that people can go to work and make a day's wages and make today's living and help their families right. -- thrive. host: marcel on the independent line. caller: i really appreciate what you women talking about. part of the problem is that the administration has done a lackluster job of trying to get everyone on board, and there is a problem of credibility in this country with the media. you have people calling up who are, for example, independent, as a gentleman did a few minutes ago, saying that everybody voted the other way because the government is not doing a good job, when indeed they are. unfortunately, wall street and the banks seem to have continued to have a good time when main street is not. guest: i want to thank the caller for that observation. we do need bipartisanship in this congress to do what the american people need and want, which is to get jobs and get that created fast. fortunately, we have -- for example, with this tanf emergency fund, which expired but could be revived, which enables employers to hire workers. we know that going into the remainder of this congress, there are republican leaders who support this idea. haley barbour, for example. we need to zero in on jobs, jobs, jobs, so that we can at a faster clip get out of the impact, the seemingly unending impact of this recession. host: jodie levin-epstein, thank you very much for joining us on thanksgiving. guest: have a great thanksgiving. host: you, too. that does it for today's." -- "washington journal." tomorrow, a veto reporter on black friday and consumer spending -- retail reporter on black friday and consumer spending. later, george liebmann, a road to peace suggestinol

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