Transcripts For CSPAN Washington 20240703

Congressional efforts to pass government fundi bills before e september 30 deadline. Then university of pennsylvania la professor talabt lawsuits seeking disqualify former President Donald Trump from the presideia bloby using the 14th amendment. Wendydelbert, former chief economist at the Congressional Budget Office looks at the latest census were showing the first poverty increase in 13 years. Washington journal starts now. Host good morning. Hunter biden was charged thursday on gun related felony counts. President bidens son is accused of lying about his drug use when he bought the gun in 2018. The indictment comes after Republican Leaders opened an impeachment inquiry in which they are looking to tie President Biden to his sons foreign business deals. We are getting yr reaction. Democrats 202 7488000, republicans 202 7488001, independents 202 7488002. You can also send as a text at 202 7488003. Please include your name and where you are from. Otherwise on social media it is cspanwj or facebook. Com cspan. A good friday morning to you. This is the front page banner headline of the Washington Times. Hunter biden indicted over gun possession. The probe results in several firearms charges weeks after previous deal. This from the wall street journal delving into those charges. The indictment alleges that hunter biden knowingly lied and said he was not addicted to drugs when he purchased the gun in october 2018 and that he possessed the firearm illegally. He faces a maximum penalty of 25 years in prison but he would likely serve far less than that. The white house has maintained it is not involved in bidens legal matters in the president has never discussed them with the Justice Department. That from the wall street journal. Plenty of reaction on capitol hill. The official filing of these charges being handed out by a grand jury. This is congressman andy bates, republican from arizona, saying the hunter biden indictment is a move to make you think the doj is fair. They are trying to protect him from way more serious charges coming his way. Tax charges not yet filed against hunter biden. Here is more reaction from capitol hill. Rick scott from florida is to mandate real justice in the prosecution of hunter biden, and while these indictments are better than what we saw, i have a warning for the president. The American People will never forgive you or your corruption if you parted hunter. One more from a republican senator, i hope david weiss does not consider his job done after indicting hunter biden on a charge he already admitted to. An impeachment inquiry is the only way we will get to the truth on Hunter Bidens influence peddling abroad and how involved the president was. That was yesterday on capitol hill. These impeachment charges, the impeachment inquiry from House Republicans earlier this week. This all happened. Phone lines, democrats 202 7488000, republicans 202 7488001, independents 202 7488002. This is taught in california. Independent. A very early. Good morning. Caller good morning. Hunter biden situation i am happy the department of justice is not being biased. No one is above the law. He is basically a crackhead. Need to set an example that he needs to be sentenced to 25 years in prison if he is convicted. Also, his father needs to be impeached and removed from office. That is my perspective. Host on what you want to see when it comes to hunter biden, just a couple of blocks is the Supreme Court of the United States. Etched in stone says equal justice under law. You think we have equal justice under law in this country . Caller no. Not for most people. It seems like people that are politically powerful or rich continually get away with crimes over and over. That is disgusting and it needs to stop. Thank you for the call. Host this is roger in virginia. Good morning. Caller good morning. I think this hunter biden thing is a political hit job. Donald trump son said why shouldnt i make money on my dads name . What is wrong with biden doing the same thing if that is the case . There is no evidence the president did anything wrong. Every time we get a democrat president republicans go crazy. They shut down the government. They talk about the high prices, but they do not do nothing about it. They sit back and they blame the democrats. Host watch the language as we try to have a conversation. This is cindy in norwalk, connecticut. Caller good morning. I guess it is ok my compassionate side feel sorry for the guy. He had a drug problem. It is sad what is going on. I feel like joe biden, his kid had a drug problem but he is ttg more pressure on the kid by doing these deals that we spect happened. The Biden Syndicate with billions of dollars going to family members. I think it looks bad for hunter. I feel like hes being used by his dad. Is there equal justice . Not really. Since the trump indictment. None of us felt like trump convinced us the election was stolen. We had our own minds and he is being persecuted for an opinion. That is my feeling. It is very sad. The whole thing is set and it does not make me happy. It does not make me feel like good. That is not what we should be doing. I think we need to have that same empathy towards what is going on with trump. This country is a mess. Host that was cindy in connecticut. That is what republicans in the house say they want this impeachment inquiry to look into. Reactions from democrats to that impeachment inquiry announcement this week. Here is yesterday, glen ivy, democrat from maryland, the bogus impeachment of the president s political blackmail. Republicans know what shutdown would hurt our economy and put lives at risk. They have decided any political gain is worth the price of human suffering. A potential shutdown happening 15 days from now at midnight on september 30 if a federal funding deal does not happen by then. We will talk more about where we are with the shutdown showdown this morning. One more tweet this morning. This from democrats in the Oversight Committee saying chairman comber and Speaker Mccarthys investigation is nothing more than impeachment theater. That is coming from a Freedom Caucus republican. Getting your thoughts this morning. I want to show you more on the impeachment inquiry and Speaker Mccarthys comments about hunter biden. He was asked about both yesterday. Here is about a minute and a half of what he had to say. Both jordan and comer were not able to present anything that is impeachable offense. Is that an assessment you share . Impeachment inquiry is not impeachment. What impeachment inquiry does is ask the questions. Are you concerned about all the stuff that has recently have you asked the white house any questions . Do you believe the american lied to the American Public when he said he never talked to his son about business dealings . You cannot answer that . Do you believe when they said the president you believe that happened . Do you believe the president had dinner with the clients of hunter biden who got those clients because he was selling the brand . Do you believe hunter biden when you saw the video of him driving a porsche that he got 140 3000 to buy the porch the next day . Do you believe that 3 million from the Russian Oligarch that was transferred to the Shell Companies that the bidens after the dinner took place . Do you think the president lied . There is a difference between lying in impeachable. Im not saying impeachable. I would like to know the answer to this question and that is what impeachment inquiry provides. Host this morning in the oped pages of the Washington Times. It is a columnist for the Washington Times and a former Communications Editor for President Trumps campaign. Here is the headline. The media is up to their eyeballs in evidence against biden but claims reporters would rather remain ignorant of the truth. This is tom out of pittsburgh, california. Good morning. Caller thank you for taking my call. Youll have to bear with me. I am confused on this. When joe biden was Vice President of the United States this dealing was going on or was this something that happened after he left office . Host i believe the House Republicans want to look into all of this. What was happening when he was Vice President. I do not think they are bounding into a specific timeframe. Caller the thing is, my opinion , if this was something that was going on while he was a standing president , but this sounds like more something to do with hunter than with joe. This is where it gets really confusing for myself. If hunter biden was doing something illegal, what does that have to do with dad . This is where it gets confusing. This is not like donald trump and his family while he was a standing president. This has to do with his Vice President and he left office. If while he was a standing president he was still doing illegal business transactions . I get confused. I wish someone would give me a straight answer. Host you say you were concerned about former President Trumps family members when he was president , what their business dealings were . That was something that concerned you . Caller because while trump was in office there was a lot. When you are president of the United States and you have family members who are officials of the white house and they are doing business dealings and donald come and donald trump is hitting income when he was having these big meetings at his resorts or he was getting paid and taking money from the taxpayers, which is a big difference than any kind of business dealings. The only thing i can say is if joe biden was president of the United States and they can show a direct line between his power to continue this business dealing or if this was something that happened before joe biden was ever president of the united dates. Host that is tom in pittsburgh. Caller good morning. Can you hear me. I am an independent. I have democratic leanings typically because the Republican Party is on fire. If hunter biden did anything that he should be on trial for that he should stand trial. It is not that big of a deal. That is all i have to say on that. You guys have a good day. Host this indictment that came down, three federal charges, gun charges related to his possession of a cobra 38 special for 12 days in 2018. The Washington Times picking up on the storyline that has questions on some gun owner websites about video from Hunter Bidens and gun possession shown in that video. Here is the story. On thursday special counsel david weiss announced charges accusing him of a federal background check for possessing that cobra cold 38 in being a user of illegal drugs. Video of his abandoned laptop shows a naked mr. Biden holding a semiautomatic pistol. That is different from the cold revolver that resulted in the charges. That is not the handgun in the photo so where is the gun, Dan Zimmerman demands. How many other guns did he own . He honestly owned at least one other gun. Where are they now and how did he dispose of them. Questions of a second gun have swirled. If mr. Biden did obtain a semiautomatic pistol in delaware then he committed another crime as well. Those questions being raised in the wake of these gun charges filed yesterday. This is kim out of wyoming. Good morning. Caller thank you for taking my call. The point i would try to make is a gun point. The democrats want strong gun laws. They want strong background checks. If they are not going to follow through with their laws, what is the point . I do not think hunter should get special treatment just because the is the son of the president. If the democrats are serious about gun control, background checks, they should make him the poster child. Host what does that mean. We are talking about a possible 25 years in prison. Nonviolent firsttime users are not expected to receive that much. What you want toee . Caller i would like to see him be held responsible, that he be treated like anybody else. Any other, if you sound guilty to be treated like any other crin in any other city or small town. He should be using it as an example to show there are not does tears of justice. Host from Hunter Bidens lawyer on the front page of the New York Times this is quoted on the front page of the New York Times. The lawyer has argued that the lead prosecutor is still legally bound by a previous agreement and accusing mr. Weiss of caving to pressure from Trump Supporters who had called the plea agreement a sweetheart deal. Hunter biden was not a threat to Public Safety but a prosecutor with all the power imaginable bending to political pressure presents a grave threat. Abby lowell, Hunter Bidens lawyer, in a statement quoted in the New York Times this morning. We want to keep taking your phone calls. Keep calling in on this issue, this indictment of the president son, the first indictment of a child of a sitting president. We can also talk about the inquiry that began earlier this week. As you calling, i want to update you on where we are when it comes to a potential government shutdown. Stephen neukam joins us via zoom this morning. Good morning to you. Guest good morning. 15 to host 15 days from now, shutdown deadline. Where do things stand on capitol hill . Guest things are still in flux. The house left yesterday. We are seemingly not close to a deal between house conservatives and house Republican Leadership on a stopgap spending measure which seems to be the way out of this immediate looming shutdown and they want certain funding measures and different policies attached to this funding package and they are in negotiations with house leadership. We will have to see where this negotiations land next week. As we left the capital yesterday, it did not seem we were imminently in a deal between leadership and conservatives . The house and senate not in session today. Speaker mccarthy has promised when they come back they will stay in session to try to get a deal done. What is the expectation coming into this week, coming off of the august recess . This was the first week the senate was back. What was the plan this week and remind viewers what happened with that defense spending bill this week and what that showed. Guest i will take it back before what the expectations were before this week. The expectation when the white house and House Republicans reached a deal on the debt limit a few months back was that congress would pass 12 funding appropriation bills to fund the government for the september 30 deadline. As we get closer to that deadline and as we have gotten closer it has become more were they are not going to get those bills passed before september 30. That puts us in a situation where without the house leadership being willing to take up a large omnibus package and throw all these bills together and getting them through to fund the government, which speaker Kevin Mccarthy has said he will not do, we need a shortterm funding measure to keep the government open another 30 or 60 or 90 days at the same funding levels while the house works with the senate to get the appropriation bills through the chamber. The problem is that house conservatives want a bunch of things attached to the shortterm funding measures and that is where things stand between conservatives and house leadership. Host we have talked about the house quite a bit. Explain what is happening in the senate and what they have been doing amid this loggerheads in the House Republican conference. Guest the senate, democraticcontrolled. The difference between the house and senate is the spending levels that were agreed to in the debt limit deal, that is what Senate Appropriators have been writing there appropriation bills the levels that were agreed to in the debt limit deal. House conservatives have been pushing Kevin Mccarthy to write appropriation bills that come in further below the number that was agreed to in the debt limit deal. That is the obvious schism between the house and the senate. Even if the house to get through their appropriations packages and the senate gets theirs through, there is going to be a need for house leadership, Senate Leadership to come together and reach an agreement on a package or on the 12 bills that can pass both chambers and get to the president s desk before a government shutdown. Host Stephen Neukam is a congressional reporter at the messenger. Themessenger. Com. You can also follow him on twitter. Thanks for joining us. 15 more days. Im sure we will check in again. Guest thanks. Host back to your phone calls asking you your thoughts on the hunter biden indictment that came out yesterday, a federal grand jury handing up and indictment. Also the impeachment inquiry that was launched. Phone lines, democrats 202 7488000, republicans 202 7488001, independents 202 7488002. This is mary, out of richmond, california. Line for democrats. Caller good morning. Thank you for taking my call. This hunter biden situation is good that it is coming before the American People because now with the discussion centered around bidens access to his gun will cause a great discussion and show the hypocrisy of people that own guns and support the gun lobbyist. This biden situation will create a lot of discussion and hopefully it will expose people that support these gun laws, that are supporting young people , 21 years old being able to buy military rifles. I am hopeful this biden situation will wake up the American People to the hypocrisy of those people that support guns. I would like to see the president of the United States go to the gun meetings and talk to the people that have the licenses to sell guns and ask them what they can support, and ask them what they would like to see happening in this country to settle the situation. Hunter bidens case will help us have a better understanding of what is going on. Host as the Washington Times notes, it might be Hunter Bidens attorneys who challenge some of the gun restrictions that led to these charges against hunter biden. They explain that in 2022 a Supreme Court Ruling Issued limits on who can be issued concealed carry permits. The justices said that to comport with the Second Amendment one federal Appeals Court in louisiana ruled last month that the drug user prohibition in federal firearms laws cannot survive that test. The same port also nixed the part of the law barring firearms possession mr. Bidens attorneys have indicated they might challenge the gun law itself. That from the Washington Times reported. This is lori, youngstown, ohio. Independent. Good morning. Caller thanks for taking my call. It is astounding when i watch. I watch every morning. To see how the democrats and the republicans spar. They act like children on the playground. Hunter biden did this in trumps kids did that. It is ridiculous. People cannot walk and chew gum at the same time. Can it not be they are all corrupt . I think so. Democrats and republicans both are very corrupt, and their children are corrupt. That is the way it is and we know about it because we hear about it. We did not hear 30 or 40 years ago beuse of social media. Hunter biden in the trump children, they are all corrupt. Erybody needs to stop and realize this is not a Blue Team Red team situation. They both are corrupt and they need to wake up. Host that is lori in ohio. Robert in alabama. You are next. Republican. Caller the whole hunter prosecution is a farce. The special prosecutor was appointed in violation of all doj rules on special prosecutors. He is supposed to be from outside the government. He is not. He is the same man who deliberately allow the statute of limitations to run out on the tax charges against hunter biden, which are much more serious. He is the one who made the sweetheart deal that the judge saw was so corrupt it was thrown out. He charged him on the one thing, due to public pressure, that cannot be sent back to biden himself, to joe biden. Joe biden was involved, obviously, in blackmailing the Ukrainian Government over the burisma investigation when hunter was on the board. Hunter david weiss is not qualified because of his connection to the doj to be the special prosecutor. He is the one who has been covering up for hunter. Host you dont see these charges as a vindication of the sweetheart deal was just that and there was more there . Caller they knew there was more there when they made the deal. The deal was made so they could cover for hunter biden. The fact is that he should have been charged with the tax evasion charges, which lead back to his father. Weiss has been covering for the bidens. Host robert in alabama. The Editorial Board of the wall street journal calling it a vindication of the critics of the sweetheart deal. They write the president s son is entitled to a presumption of innocence but the charges vindicate critics of an indulgent plea deal cut in june. Under that deal hunter biden had been the gun charges had been dropped as part of that deal. Hunter wouldve received no jail time. Hunters fate is a tragedy but the mistake the Justice Department made was not treating this case like others from the start. The gun charges deserve to be tried on their merits but they do not absolve mr. Weiss or his bosses of undermining Public Confidence in equal justice. This is stephen in kentucky. Democrat. Good morning. Caller i feel like a lot of the republicans are jealous of hunter biden. He is going round, he has a c olt cobra, that is a pretty badass gun. Host curtis in baltimore. Good morning. Caller i like the lady that was speaking on both parties, democrats and republicans about both being corrupt. They are. Speaking on the criminal Justice System, it has never been fair. Not to us. When i say us i am talking about people of color. It has never been fair. Now the people of european descent are getting their fair share or shake of the Justice System, now they see what weve been seeing for decades and centuries. The Justice System is not equal, is not fair. Whatever it wants to do is what it does. We are saying this just from the biden situation, from the trump situation, and everybody else. The main problem in this country, we need to get rid of those confederates in capitol hill representing those confederates states. Thank you, cspan. Host that is curtis in baltimore, maryland. Speaking of capitol hill, a highprofile visit coming next week. Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy said to travel to washington next week after a gathering of World Leaders at the United Nations General Assembly in new york. The visit to capitol hill is tentatively scheduled for thursday. The trip is coordinated with the Biden Administration in a joint bush to reinforce the importance of congress granting the white house supplemental budget request for more than 24 billion dollars in additional aid to ukraine. On a trip last december the ukrainian president visited the white house and also delivered his speech to congress, delivering a plea for continued support against russian aggression. Biden and zelinski held an impersonal bilateral meeting in japan during the summit there. That is from the washington post. More details likely on that visit next week. This is sharon in delaware. Republican. Good morning. Caller good morning. I just had a couple comments. The lady from california. I dont understand. And the lady from ohio. If the trump kids were corrupt, trust me, with all of the investigations, the millions of dollars they spent on those investigations over the years when trump was in office and found nothing, they would be indicted as well. They probably knew what time those kids went to bed at night. They had legitimate businesses. As far as the gun charge against hunter biden, it is not a charge because he owns a gun, it is a charge because he lied on the application. Lets treat everybody fairly and anybody sitting in prison right now for the same charge, they should be released immediately. They should be released immediately in my opinion. As far as all the kids are corrupt, i dont buy it for a second. They did every investigation, turned over every rock, all this russia collusion nonsense. At the end what happened . No charges and no evidence was found. The Second Amendment is there for a reason. The gun application is there for a reason. He lied on the application, that was the charge. He should also be charged for having beau bidens exwife through the gun in a garbage can near a high school. How stupid are we . That should also be a charge. Anybody couldve gotten a hold of that. It is apples and apples. Lets keep it together and look at the situation. Im not saying trumps kids are perfect, but if there was anything corrupt going on in their personal lives or their businesses, we would all know about it and there would be charges. As far as taxes, biden gets up there, gun laws, we will enforce it, doing away with the Second Amendment so hunter can get away with it. Not paying taxes on millions of dollars because they let the statute of limitations run out. Dont expect us to pay our taxes. Lets all be treated fairly. Host that is sharon in delaware. Prosecutors likely to point to Hunter Bidens own words of what happened in 2018 when he bought this gun. He detailed in his memoir that he was abusing drugs in 2018 when he bought the gun, detailing those purchases and the depths he sunk to to feed his drug habit in 2018. This is gwen in birmingham, alabama. Democrat. Good morning. Caller good morning. I want to ask this question to cspan. What has this got to do with my Social Security check . What does that have to do with the high cost of prescription drugs . What does this have to do with education for my grandchildren . What does that have to do with the cost of College Tuition for these young kids paying out of their minds . America is on the way to authoritarianism. How in the world cspan, you are supposed to be educating us how the world are we discussing this stuff about joe biden son when we need to be talked about Everything Else that is going on in america . Important things, things important to our everyday lives. These people going on strike against the big three. What has this got to do with everything . What is this impeachment . Joe biden has not done anything to be impeached. You know this. This is because donald trump is still running the Republican Party. Speaker mccarthy is going along with everything donald trump is telling him to do. This has nothing to do with us. I love cspan. Ive called for years and years, even when brian was on i was calling. This is very confusing to me. Host were you concerned about allegations against Donald Trumps children in 2016, 2017, 2018 . Was it some but we shouldve talked about on this program then . Caller i give a rats about Donald Trumps children. Donald trump was the president of the United States. Donald trump is the one who got this country in the uproar, all of this white nationalism. This is donald trump. Not ivanka, not eric, not don jr. Donald trump was the president of the United States. If we want to discuss him lets discuss him. I am very disappointed with cspan this morning about hunter biden. If this was my nephew or my grandson you think cspan would be talking about this . You would not. It is because hunter biden is the son of the president of the United States. Republicans are trying to link anything they can against biden. You think President Biden is this stupid . You think he is this stupid to have got involved in something his son was doing . I dont think so. In my heart i do not think the president is this ignorant. I did stuff when i was a young child that my mother and father would never know about. Children do stuff their parents are not involved in and they dont know about. What youre doing, thinking about President Biden new everything his son did, check your heart. Host got your point. That is quaint in alabama. This indictment coming from joe bidens Justice Department, the first ever indictment against a sitting president s child. The caller did bring up the United Auto Workers strike full of i want to note that as the lead story in todays wall street journal. The United Auto Workers directed members to walk off the job at three Large Assembly plants across gm and ford ng if negotiators could not reach a deal before 11 59 last night. The uaw president told members during an online address the company and union remain too far apart to avoid a walkout and said the move is the beginning of a strategy that could include striking additional factories without notice and describe the approach as a way to sew confusion at the companies and give his investigators more leverage. That happening today. The lead story in todays wall street journal. This is camille in montana. Good morning. Caller good morning. I want to say we could be focusing on the National Debt, we could have common sense about all this. The republicans want to talk about how both sides is going up in flames. I want to say we had bush it was a failed son to bush senior. Rich senior have failed sons all the time. Just because this guy is president and the republicans do not like him they will attack this person. Bush was a failed son to george bush senior. We have to understand that failed sons come in all shapes and sizes. It happens when you have a lot of trauma. We need to come at this with empathy. Unlike Donald Trumps kids, Donald Trumps kids we can have empathy, they are just a victim of his narcissism, doing everything they can to please daddy. We have all of this stuff going after free speech. We have real problems like Mitch Mcconnell who does not know what he is doing on stage and instead they want to focus on hunter biden when they could be focusing. He has a failed son. It happens more than you think. Host maryland, this mark. Line for republicans. Good morning. Caller i think this is a chance to srt to clean the state. It is very important. We cannot have corruption in government. Most polls would show most americans believe there is a lot of corruptioin government and at some point we need to start to tackle that and think this is a great chance to stt to tackle that. The russian separatists in russia begin the ukraine war. One month later hunter got a job in the ukraine. Why . It is because of the influence he could provide into the obama Biden Administration. George kent was a diplomat who was on the first trump impeachment, the very first day he testified. He testified that he went to the Vice President s office to tell him this did not look good because joe biden was the point man in the ukraine and he was denied access. Everyone wants to say joe biden knew nothing about hunters business dealings. He claimed he did not know anything about it. Why did he claim that . Because if it was proven that he did then he would be guilty just like hunter. He did know. There is a lot of evidence out there that shows he knew. He allowed hunter to fly around the world in air force to come and even now he has hunter in many dinner parties and flying around the world with him in air force one. He got on the phone many times for business meetings. That was all to sell influence. Even if joe did not get the money he knew hunter was getting the money for the family, much like the Clinton Foundation and other things. As a republican and as an american i want all corruption to be investigated. I think this is some of the biggest and worst corruption in american history. Host that is mark in maryland. This is edward in North Carolina. About 15 minutes left in the segment. Go ahead. Caller i love to listen to people on cspan. The bottom line is hunter biden is not running for office. Hunter biden is not an elected official. When you had two impeachment trials going towards trump, i want america to understand that one of those impeachment trials, there was evidence that trump tried to influence the president of ukraine to investigate hunter biden. This is just a diversion because the four cases in the 90 charges against donald trump, one of those is going to stick. He is not going to be able to get away with the things he has done. I want the republicans to understand is you need to have a platform. What is your platform . You have done nothing for this country in the last 10 years. Obama, with his recovery act, had the economy on an uptick. 18 months before he handed it to donald trump, like a tractortrailer with unlimited gas. Donald trump took credit for all of these things obama did. Donald trump did not put forward the veterans choice at. I work for the v. A. For four years and that came because of the president obama and the appointment scandal in february 2014. People need to get off of hunter biden and focus on what is going on in congress. Caller what is this diversion host what is the diversionary tactic . The impeachment inquiry or the charges against hunter biden . Caller all of these things are in a big pot of soup. Host on the hunter biden charges, is the special counsel in the biden Justice Department that brought these charges. He has been the one prosecuting this. It is not a republicanled Justice Department. This is in the Biden Administration. Caller i understand that but all of these influences are happening right now because of Donald Trumps phone calls to Kevin Mccarthy and other people that are trying to put a diversion on all of the things that are really on a pot with hot water about donald trump. I dont care if joe biden has a wooden leg and Kamala Harris is pushing him. If donald trump is your nominee, youre going to lose. People from the republican side to the democratic side to vote. This is the crab i do not understand. The American People need to understand hunter biden is not running for congress. This is just a get quick scheme against joe biden. The republicans have not done anything in the last 10 years in the American People need to understand that. I am tired of people on social media saying Donald John Trump is the best thing since velcro and having people wearing nword tshirt for trump in 2024. The democrats have done Everything Possible for this country. Why dont you ask joaquin jeffries. Why dont you ask aoc . I am a spanish american, puerto rican family. Grew up in the south bronx and poverty. I joined the navy for 24 years. I know the difference between right and wrong. I have seen the mona lisa twice and i know the difference between truth and fake. People and media need to get away from hunter biden. It is just a diversion. Host that is edward in North Carolina. This is alvin in colorado. Good morning. Caller good morning america. I wanted to say this hunter biden scenario is totally his deal. It has nothing to do with joe biden. The issue is is a hunter biden thin the thoughts i have heard is about the economy, about inflation. We have inflation that rose last month. We produce which most people do not even know that. I live right in the heart of a huge oilfield that goes from colorado into wyoming all the way into the dakotas. We are producing our oil and gas at an alltime high level. The republicans, the first thing they tell me is what about what is happening when there was a republican in office . Maybe because the number one contributors to the Republican Party is the oil and gas industry. Just a theory. I live right in the bottom part of the oil and gas industry. If we look at what people really want, people really want to have a better economy that is going to thrive for americans. Why are we fighting in congress over these 12 bills in these 12 budgets when we know part of that is the reveal that the republicans are fighting for huge tax breaks against or for the super wealthy. Host on the issue of the economy, President Biden offered remarks yesterday on the issue of the economy and went after republicans for the potential shutdown that could happen in 15 days about going back on a deal when it came to the debt limit, when it came to funding levels. This is little bit of what the president had to say yesterday. [video clip] now they are turning their backs on the bipartisan budget deal Speaker Mccarthy made with me just a few months ago after threatening to shut down and renege on our National Debt stop they are back at it again, breaking their commitments, threatening to shut down the government again this month. Host that deadline is midnight on september 30. We will see what happens when Congress Comes back in session on monday. Both chambers are out today. The next chance to see members on capitol hill on monday on cspan and cspan2. This is robert in newfoundland, pennsylvania. Good morning. You are next. Caller good morning. How are you . Host doing well. Caller i watch these been a bit. I am kind of disgusted about both people who are speaking, especially the person from arkansas. No one forced hunter biden to sign that paperwork. He signed it himself knowing he was using drugs. I feel for the guy. I am a republican. Take the politics out. I heard what you said about being vindictive about going after his son. If you sign a piece of paper on a car loan, a College Application for a loan, youre responsible for that. That is your signature. This has nothing to do with the president of the United States. It has to do with his son. He should face the consequences. Wesley snipes, he was talking about how black men right now would probably be in jail. I would be in jail and i am white. This is serious. You cannot have a Domestic Violence charge in pennsylvania. You cannot have a felony in pennsylvania. I open carry with my gun. I do not have a felony and 90 not have domestic issues. Wesley snipes went to prison for 5 million not paying his taxes. If this is a criminal charge, i do not feel it is political. If i can fire 435 people i would. If you have a question for me i would like to answer it. Ive never had a question asked by a commentator before. Host how own to view how long of you owned a firearm . Caller for two years. I live in pennsylvania. I do not want. It is a gun for protection of my home. I go to the gun range. Host why after 55 years to feel like you needed one at age 55 . Caller it was not a need. I have been riding motorcycles since i was 20 and then i stopped for 30 years. Then when i came to pennsylvania i thought let get another motorcycle at 50 years old. Theres plenty of beer appear. I just got rid of my motorcycle because i have sciatica in my leg. It was hard the whole of the motorcycle. I hope i never ever have to point a gun at a human being. That is my worst fear. I would never want to do that. I am very safe on it. Like i said, hunter biden, if fire you signed this piece of paper and went to a gun store in pennsylvania and falsified information, you must be criminally charged. Host that is robert in pennsylvania. Your two points from viewers this conversation on our social media page as well. Lynn saying where are the Second Amendment people . If they can charge hunter biden with lying on a gun application they can do the same to you. Another saying these charges are small potatoes compared to the plea deal that wouldve granted immunity for future charges. The important of these charges is the light it shines on the corruption embedded in that earlier agreement that the judge throughout, making the same case the Editorial Board of the wall street journal makes today in their oped. Time for a couple of calls. This is thelma in the bronx. Line for democrats. Good morning. Go ahead. Caller good morning. I am calling from the bronx. Can you hear me question mark host yes. Caller i would like to know when is the doj going to indict ivanka and Jared Kushner. Can you give me a date, when are they indicted and coming for Jared Kushner and ivanka for the corruption and the 2 million jared took from the sallies . When is the indictment coming. Hunter biden is not running for anything. He is a private citizen. I do not know why this is such a big deal about hunter biden. I have two sons, i am a mother of two sons. One is 30 years old and one is 31. I dont know if they go out, what they do, they come home, i dont ask where you were you as long as it is safe. That is all of my concern, they come home safely. I dont care about hunter biden. This is ridiculous. This is to get back at joe biden. Joe biden is a good man. I voted for him and i will be voting for him again. I have family in pennsylvania, i have family in florida, all over america, they will vote again for joe biden. We will stand with joe biden and we will stay with joe biden. Joe biden is an honest decent man. Host one more call. This is ron in florida. Republican. Good morning. Caller i think the whole deal with the gun charge, this could have been done four and a half years ago. Any prosecutor with any sense could have done it. He lied on an application. Wade shows is the corruption of the biden Justice Department. The prosecutor who supposedly had special Prosecutor Authority until he did not and then had to get it is charging him with i think the real problem is the Justice Department and Merrick Garland and the corruption there and it is a cover to protect joe biden. Host lets call her in the first segment on washington journal. Since you want to talk about this morning including a discussion on the 14th amendment and what it could mean for donald trump in 2024. We are joined by Kermit Roosevelt University Pennsylvania Carey Law School professor and attorney james bopp jr. And then later brookings institutions economic studies senior fellow to discuss the census report showing poverty rate increase, while the largest in the past 13 years. This fall watch cspans new series, books that shaped america. Join us as we embark on a captivating journey and partnership with the library of congress which first created new books that shaped america lists to explore key works of literature from american history. The books featured have provoked thought, won awards, led to significant changes and are still talked about today. Hear from experts who will shed light on the impact of these works and virtual journeys across the country tied to the celebrated authors and their unforgettable books. Among the books, common sense by thomas payne, Huckleberry Finn by mark twain, their eyes were watching god by zora neale hurston, and free to choose, by milton and rose friedman. Watch our 10part series, books that shaped america, starting monday september 18 at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan, cspan now, our free mobile video app, or online at cspan. Org. Cspan studentcam documentary competition is back and this time we are celebrating 20 years with this years theme, looking forward while considering the past. The youth of today are leaders of tomorrow and it is imperative we take care of them to help them succeed as they progress through life. With more awareness we can Work Together to prevent fentanyl becoming the worlds next pandemic. Inflation matters. It is important to understand the ramifications of allowing inflation to get out of control. Middle and High School Students create a fiveminute or six minute video addressing one of two questions. In the next 20 years, whats an important change you wou le to see in america or what is been the most important change in america . Show supporting and opposing perspectives. Were giving away 100,000 in total prizes with the grand prize of 5,000. Because we are celebrating 20 years every teacher who has students who participate in this years competition has an opportunity to share a portion of the additional 50,000. Adline for students to submit is friday, january 19, 2024. For more information about this years contest ans vit our website at studentcam. Org. A healthy democracy does not just look like this. It looks like this. Where americans can see democracy at work, citizens truly informed, a republic thrives. Get informed straight from the source on cspan, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word, from the Nations Capital to wherever you are because the opinion that matters the most is your own. This is what democracy looks like. Cspan powered by cable. Washington journal continues. Host a Panel Discussion on the 14th amendment and what could mean for donald trump in 2024. Our guest lawyer james bopp jr. And represented members of congress in 14th amendment cases and Pennsylvania Carey Law School professor Kermit Roosevelt joining us as well. Good morning. The 14th amendment to the constitution, Section Three is what we are focusing on this morning. Let me read it to let them know what is says. Boris anyone who took quote an old as an officer of the u. S. To support the constitution of that it states and engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the United States unless congress removes such disability by two thirds vote. Section three, professor roosevelt, give us Historical Context of when the 14th amendment was ratified and why it came into being. Guest the 14th amendment ratified in 1868. This section is responding to the concern Construction Congress had that former Confederate States would be sending disloyal people to represent them in the house of representatives and senate. This is a provision that disqualifies not anyone who joined the confederacy, but a narrower said, people who took an oath and participated in the rebellion. Host the same question of who it was meant for and do you think this section was meant to outlive confederate veterans . Guest yes, i think it was because it is a fact, both prospective, and people involved in the civil war against the United States and then secondly, it is prospective rebellions or insurrections that people would be disqualified if prior to engaging in an insurrection, they had taken an oath to the constitution of the United States. Host on the wording of this, shall have engaged in insurrection, like that wording . Why not shall have been convicted of insurrection as defined by u. S. Code or something . Is the wording why is it not precise . Guest i do not think it is imprecise, it is just wrong. It does not require a criminal conviction and is a criminal, federal statute that makes it a felony to engage in an insurrection. They chose to provide that without a conviction if you had done this, and it can be determined, pursuant to proper Legal Process because every state has mechanism by which you get on the ballot, efile your candidacy, and then challenges it to your candidacys can be militant mounted. If there is a proper state procedure to challenge your candidacy, that is available, but you have to prove it. It has to be due process and prove that you actually engaged in insurrection. Host professor roosevelt, the same question on the process and whose job is it to invoke the provisions of Section Three of the 14th amendment . Is it secretaries of state . Is it members of congress . What has history told us . Guest this was a bit unclear. I agree with what was said there. The constitution does not prescribe specific procedures. If you want to convict someone of shes in odessa you need two witnesses but trees and it does say you need two witnesses. It sets out a rule and that will be enforced by whatever legal procedures are in place. With the application of this provision to members of congress, which is what people were thinking about most of the time, it is clear how that is going to happen because the constitution also says the houses of Congress Shall be the judge of qualifications of their members. You can see how that works. Southern representatives might present their conditionals and the house will refuse to seat them because they say we have decided to be sick and because you taken oath to protect the constitution and in you did an extraction. It looks much to me like any other qualification for becoming president. Natural born citizens, 35 years of age, how do those get enforced . You do not need a conviction per year if you do need some type of proof. Probably it will be done by whoever enforces ballot qualifications which usually i think would be the secretary of state of the states. Host what do you think of the efforts to apply this to donald trump in 2024 . Guest i think theres a strong case constitutionally. There are different questions we need to separate. One is as a matter of fact, did he do things that bring him within the scope of this constitutional provision . I think the answer to that is yes. Theres a question how would this reinforce. Who can sue to have him excluded . Probably not just anyone. What is the standard approved use in proceeding that eventually comes. The last question in some ways maybe most importantly, is it good for the democracy. What is going to happen if a court says hes not eligible . Someone who has such massive support is simply excluded from the election. We are in untested waters. Host mr. Bopp, is this a good idea and should it apply to donald trump . Guest it is inherently antidemocratic. We have to look through that lens because if you support democracy, you do not want people to be thrown off the ballot. You would want to look at this and carefully scrutinize whether a person actually did engage in an insurrection. Rather than take a broad view, which is recent articles have done, a very broad view of this which would mean all the parts were accepted that to someone who went to the house chambers in the gallery and protested Climate Change and resulted in a delay of the chambers. That person would be have engaged in an insurrection against United States. That is a big asleep broad. That is ridiculously brought. That raises conclusively that there is a medically weak case against trump that should never be pursued. The other point about it being a good idea, we need to play this out in our mind. If you have 50 states each deciding to their own state procedures, sometimes secretary of state, sometimes the election board, whatever, sometimes courts, and deciding for each state whether trump was qualified to get on the ballot, do you have any idea the chaos and destruction of our electoral system that would result in . What would happen is hes taken off the ballot by a process in pennsylvania six days before the primary and that he is removed from the ballot. He is not in the general election ballot. How are we going to fix that . What happens if in wisconsin they taken half they take them off one week before the general election and loses the general election . The most extreme enforcement has been suggested that any public official that has responsibility to determine qualifications of a candidate is required to act as if trump is a disqualified candidate. Does that apply to a precinct worker counting ballots . Could decide while he is not qualified to be on the ballot. We are not going to count at least, i am not going to count those bows. Litigated bush versus gore and that involved two accountings and one state and it was extremely difficult in the compressed timeframe to get that case can you imagine 30 states where the results are all over the place, as far as people deciding this one critical question, and how our system would be able to respond . I do not think it can. It would be not just a meltdown, but a delegitimize of our election system in a way that never happened in the past. Host we are talking about the 14th amendment, Section Three. Calls to apply it in election 2024 per year looking to your cause as we have this discussion with Kermit Roosevelt and james bopp jr. This debate as it is played out has continued the past couple of weeks. It was wednesday of this week New Hampshires top election official said he would not invoke the 14th amendment to block the former president from being on the ballot in that state. [video clip] the first exercise the 14th amendment provisions by encouraging individual secretaries of state to roll separately on the 14th amendment this modification issue at the president ial primary or caucus does not make sense. In a situation where some states put a name to appear in the ballot and other states disqualify it, theres going to be chaos, confusion, anger, and frustration. That will be the result. Either the 14th amendment this qualification applies across the board or it does not. The United States Supreme Court is the authority that can make a determination on the disqualification challenge regarding a president ial candidate that would apply to all of the states. At a time when we need Election Officials to ensure transparency and build confidence among voters, around the country, the delegate Selection Process should not be the battleground test this competition will question. Constitutional question. New hampshire has a proud tradition of welcoming all qualified candidates participating at a president ial primary and will continue here. Host mr. Roosevelt, do you think this is going to need to go to the Supreme Court . Do you think its going to get there sooner than later . Guest absolutely. It would be terrible if you had different practices in different states and we have 30 states and reaching different conclusions and it is happening before the election. That would be a disaster. Thats what we have one Supreme Court that answers this question in a way that binds everyone. The argument if you got individual secretary of state is making this determination and they reach an consistent conclusions, that causes chaos, that is not an argument against invoking this provision. It is an argument against not having the Supreme Court rule on it. If the Supreme Court does well on it and quickly, which i think theres every reason to expect, then you get a single answer. The election can go forward. Hopefully, everyone will accept what the Supreme Court says because it is the only option we have. Strange thing about what the New Hampshire secretary of state was saying is when the secretaries of . You open the path to the Supreme Court. If they say were not going to enforce this, how does he get into court . Maybe some Public Interest organizations sues, but maybe they do not have standing to do that. The railway to be sure you get Supreme Court determination as if some secretary of state says i think champs barred from office. He is not eligible to be on the ballot and the Trump Campaign sued. The courts decide that and because of the Supreme Court quickly and get the answer we need. Host phone lines as usual. Democrats, 202 7488000. Republicans, 202 7488001. Independents, 202 7488002. Richard, augusta, georgia. Democrats. Caller good morning. Professor roosevelt, how many states would it take to enforce the 14th amendment . Could there not be a bipartisan bill presented by congress, especially when we know that donald trump said he would try to abolish the constitution of the United States . Guest that is a great question. It rings at 1. I wanted to make which is how narrow disqualification brings up how narrow this this qualification is. It is not as good people who say if i become president my mission would be to abolish the constitution. You cant run on that platform. The only thing you cannot do is take an oath to support the constitution and engage in insurrection. I think people do that is enemies of democracy. On the question of how many states it would take, the answer is we want a single Supreme Court decision that binds everyone so every state is doing the same thing. It will be very bad if different states have different views on this and the outcome was decided by what some swing state like wisconsin or pennsylvania does on its own. We need a single opinion from the Supreme Court that gives us a nationwide answer. Host mr. Bopp, i get the sense you want to jump in on this . Guest yes. What i been talking about is we really i think this narrow interpretation is in accord with the understanding on the words engage insurrection. When those words were written in 1867. There is u. S. Attorney general opinion that defined those very words because they were used in various contacts postcivil war federal legislation. That is engaged mean a direct overt act, not a speech, not talk, not threats, not even incitement. A direct act so it is conduct of insurrection and insurrection was described as domestic or, they had dp,estic war, they had to be civil war in mind when they use those words which the forcible overthrow of the United States government. There is nothing donald trump did or even remotely resembled an act overthrow the United States government. And of course with respect to january 6. There is other problems. Applies to officers of the United States. That term has been interpreted to mean appointed people to either executive or legislative positions or judicial position. Not to elect a public official. There are so many problems with this theory prei do agree that problems with this theory. I do agree a quick determination will be the path that will resolve for the whole United States would be the best result. That can happen because i practice election law. Somebody challenges a position of a candidate on the ballot like trump in through a defined estate law procedure that those challenges are made. The secretary of state refuses to disqualify someone, that is what has been asked for, that can be appealed. All the states allow a judicial review of those decisions and that can go through the state court and end up in the United States Supreme Court. There is a mechanism to get this to the court and an early resolution would be host mr. Bopp, we mentioned you been involved in the 14th of may. Can you explain what has happened with those and where those are . Guest they are both over and both involved being on the ballot the last four elections. One was Matthew Clark born in North Carolina. A voter challenge pursuant to state law was made before the North Carolina election board. We brought suit in federal court saying that Section Three did not apply to him because of a amnesty act of congress as well as other claims. The federal judge agreed and joined the challenge. The Fourth Circuit reverse but in after he had lost the primary, the case was moved to dismiss. In the Marjorie Taylor greene case in georgia, she was also subject to a challenge. That challenge did proceed through state court we had a trial on whether or not she engaged insurrection and the court held she did not do that. She was a victim. I consider it a despicable attack on the u. S. Capitol. That was upheld by the secretary of state and the court. There has been other challenges. In arizona but the arizona Supreme Court said the state procedure for challenging qualifications of members of congress is not available for this challenge. I think congress itself could decide this. The proper place under Section Three to enforce it against members of congress, is when they show up on january 6 to take the oath. At that point in time, some could object and say this person is not qualified and the congress could make that determine that question. Of course, as we know they were in the business of refusing to see numerous senators and representatives elected in the postcivil war era by Confederate States who had engaged in insurrection and the 13th amendment was Section Three is intended to codify that process. Host several folks waiting to chat with both of you. Vincent in oklahoma. Republican. Thank you for waiting. Caller thank you. I note a few of them are, but i know about the fifth amendment. I am pretty much sure they probably do not have to take a bath at ballot. You can run if he wants to, but i am thinking that he might end up getting impeached. Lets impeached biden, too. Host you say if he taken out the ballot you think you will win . Or a right of campaign . Caller you to come off the ballot, is that with the 14th of them is going to do . Take him off of the ballot . Host professor roosevelt, maybe you can explain how this case applied. Is taken off the ballot the only way to apply the 14th amendment . We were talking about perhaps the seating of members of congress. Maybe that would be the moment this applies. Guest with the members of congress, you got a particular constitutional provision saying Congress Shall be the judge of the qualifications of its members. It is clear that whatever happens in the election, someone shows up to congress, present their credentials, congress can say it you are not qualified to serve and turn the person away. Something like that in the constitution about the presidency. There is nothing like that in the constitution about the presidency. We want to do this before the election. If youre just looking at the text of the constitution, we could have an election and trump goodwin and then someone sues Supreme Court says youre not entitled to hold office and you are disqualified. What do we do . Have another election but that is bad. The easiest way it is most respectable and least disruptive of the democratic process is to have this decided as early as possible in terms of ballot eligibility. The challenge succeed, he would not be on the ballot and republicans would run someone else. Host in pennsylvania, this is jack. Democrat. Caller tell me a little bit about what you think about the corruption of the Supreme Court because you keep talking about the Supreme Court like it is a big deal when we know most of them are corrupt. There appointed by trump. Of course she wanted to go to the Supreme Court if you are trump you want it to go to the Supreme Court if you are trump. Guest i think the Supreme Court has more trump justices than it should read think it is more republican justices than it should. That is a problem. I would like to see it affects through term limits like to it fix through term limits. I do not think we have alternatives. We have Supreme Court we have, for better or for worse. It is supposed to have this unifying role so you get one answer on questions of federal law and constitutional interpretation. You can say the Supreme Court was wrong. I think the Supreme Court is wrong in lots of cases they decide, but i also think we have to allow it to perform this function of settling some kind of dispute. Not for the longterm. You can campaign to a point justices who overturn a particular decision. Lincoln promise that with dred scott and we just saw it done with roe v. Wade and you can get constitutional change like that but in terms of who can run in a particular election, i think the Supreme Court is our best option. Host mr. Bopp, we can probably do three hours on term limits and expanding the Supreme Court create your thought on the question of the ideology of the Supreme Court. Guest we have a process of which the Supreme Court justices are paid. Picked in that process being followed. There are people running around who do not like the results of particular courts and what they want to do is publicize and bad mouth them. I do not participate in that, whether the courts are ruling in my favor or in opposition of my arguments. We have to accept the basic intimacy of our process until we have a new process. Then we will follow that. But professor roosevelt and i can agree several times that an early decision by the Supreme Court would be beneficial to our democratic process and avoid a catastrophe of this played out statebystate. I want to talk about what the constitution provides in this regards. One of the provisions of Section Three is even if someone had engaged in insurrection, congress, the last sentence of the provision, the congress by two thirds vote can lift the disability. Take the disability of not taking office away. What that means is the only time we could ever determine that a particular candidate, cannot take office in the president or the members of congress, is literally when the present themselves to be sworn in. For the president that is january 20. Any time after that come up disability from taken office and removed by congress. That tells me interpreting all of the provisions of the constitution, if Section Three is to be in force, that is the time, january 20, when congress can intervene and lift the injunction. They have not, then they could be disqualified. Host we gave you where is the abbreviated version of Section Three. I dont want to read from the constitution, this is Section Three of the 14th amendment, no person shall be a senator or representative in congress or elector of president and Vice President or hold any office civil or military under the u. S. Or any state who, having previously taken and alludes, as a member of congress, or us as an officer of the u. S. , or a member of any state legislator, or executive or judicial officer to support the constitution of the u. S. Shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof, but congress may by a vote of two thirds of each house remove such disability. Section three of the 14th amendment in its entirety. Esperanza in florida, independent. Caller good morning. Only in communist countries, judicial system is obsessed with i will make sure 1919 fbi hiding, locking Hunter Bidens computer. Second, President Trump three years after this happened. The interference. Host what is the question . Caller the leader of the Republican Party is being weaponize by the attorney general and by the fbi. Blocking the information about the President Biden. That is number three. Sharing money with hunter biden. 10 million. Host if your question about the impeachment inquiry . Caller host professor roosevelt, do you want to start with your thoughts on the impeachment inquiry . Guest i think what she is saying is the principle we can all agree with. We want the democratic process to play itself out as expressed about the people and outside interference with the democratic process is bad. She said i think judges should not interfere the democratic process. I think we can agree on that. The question is what counts as interference with the democratic process and what counts as protecting the democratic process. I look at Section Three of the 14th amendment and i see it prodemocracy exclusion. The of enemies of democracy from the valid which i think is good for democracy. The other question is what this the judicial system do when disputes arise. How did this piece guess i . Sometimes courts has to intervene. Bush v gore is an example where the Supreme Court couldve stayed out of it. That couldve been settled in congress my people responsive to voters. For better or for worse, the court did what they did. Think the Supreme Court cannot stay out of it here. We need a single decision to set the rules are one in the country going forward. I would not consider a decision here judicial interference. Host mr. Bopp, is Section Three the 14th amendment more interference or more protection . Guest no question it is interference with the democratic process. Your disqualifying certain people from being on the ballot therefore depriving the voters of choice on whether or not to like them. In extreme situations, i agree like what they are really thinking about when they wrote Section Three which people that engaged in insurrection on the behalf of the confederacy and who had previously taken and oath to support the restitution of the United States. Constitution of the United States. The problem now they want to blow this Section Three up into something so broad that it would encompass literally numerous situations that have nothing to do with the domestic war. That is what happened on january 6. January 6 was not enforceable the never states government. They have argued it was a delay in democratic process which i agree it was which makes it despicable, but does not make it an attempted overthrow of the whole United States government. That was what the civil war was about. For talking what you can say you like it or did not like it, the talking is not conduct. Direct over . Overthrow the government of the United States overt act to overthrow the government of the United States. This been wildly expanded in a way that threatens the very foundations of our democracies. It should be understood in a limited, properly contextual bases, applied in those circumstances, certainly rare now, and otherwise let the voters decide. Host joining us james bopp jr. Attorney and university of pennsylvania Law School Professor Kermit Roosevelt. John out of massachusetts. Republican. Good morning. Caller good morning. You and the democrats, you cannot beat it from so youre trying to kick him out. The Supreme Court you have congress now and the Supreme Court. You see all the corruption going on. You people are terrible and your brainwashing our kids. Host mr. Roosevelt, do you want to respond . Guest well, it is true, republicans control the Supreme Court. They did so in a lawful way. It is the way the system works. I think it shows the appointment process is broken. The founders did not anticipate Political Parties competing to capture the Supreme Court as a power center so the system they gave us in 1787 does not work well now. Term limits would fix that. Before it started looking like it had a partisan there is broadly bipartisan support for the structural reform. I know you have a low opinion of us but some of us are trying to make the system work better. There are things we can do that most people who studied the issue a group would make a better. Unfortunately, anytime you permit a solution it looks like it will have partisan consequences. We are not in the best of all possible wars with respect to the constitution we have. We could improve things and it will be nice people were open minded about that. One might think i want to say about what mr. Bopp said. I agree it would be dangerous three to read section 32 broadly. Would have until january 6 was worse than the civil war. The civil war is an enormous catastrophe. The failure of the founders restitution three quarters of a one million americans died. They like that has ever happened. All that said, confederates are trying to theyre not trying to overthrow the government. They are not trying to take over the country. Depending on your view, january 6 and attempt to install for collectors, that is an attempt to take over the entire United States illegally. That is an attempt to install president , some are not entitled to that andy barr the person who is entitled to the office of the presidency taken the office. We need to take that seriously. That is overthrowing the government of the u. S. And i would like to see the evidence for this. I would like to see evidence about trumps participation come out in court. I think that is what we need. Guest two things. I do not think because somebody disagrees with me for my position i had, that makes them a better person. First of roosevelt is not a bad person because takes a position that is different than me or the caller. I think the idea that the civil war was not thought over the attempt of the confederate government to overthrow the government of United States as absurd. They did overthrow the government of the United States. In the Southern States. That was exactly what they were doing. Lincoln and the north and the u. S. Salt to reestablish control by the government of the United States in the Southern States and that was what civil war, in one way of looking at it, fought over. 600,000 americans died in that war and to call january 6, were only one, as terrible as it is, one person died because of Capitol Police officers shot an unarmed woman. To compare that is really denigrate the enormous sacrifice 600,000 americans made in the civil war. Host mr. Roosevelt, did you want to respond . Guest in terms of the scale of human suffering, absolutely, that is true. But i think the point i am making is an important one. Where the confederates trying to overthrow the government of the United States . It depends on what you understand that to mean. The sense in which im using that is what we say revolutionary patriots of 1776 or overthrowing the British Government . I do not think so. England went on just fine. King george was still think. In the same way, confederates trying to succeed and start their own government but not trying to take over the federal government. Theyre not trying to install Jefferson Davis as president of the United States. That is what january 6 was trying to do. I can be proven, maybe he cannot, but theory people are advancing here is january 6 was part of an organized coherent plan to take donald trump and make him president and take over the United States illegally. Guest ive never heard a proposition that he is advancing. The revolutionary war did overthrow the British Government of what became to be the United States. That is exactly what they did. They threw them out. The government was thrown out of the United States. By anybodys calculation, that is the overthrow of the government. I never heard the proposition that rep to sell off to england and overthrow we have to sial ail off to england and overthrow the government there. Host let me bring in a few more callers because there are folks waiting for you tanya in cincinnati, ohio. Democrat. Caller good morning. I have been calling cspan every since donald trump was elected, after he started telling his first lie. We have a country where 30 of the country or at least 30 of the Republican Party and maybe my numbers are off that believe a lie. Or they want us to believe they believe it because they want to support donald trump. What i would like to say to you john is it is time for cspan to start doing checking to see if people are lying or if they are telling the truth. I know it cannot happen in real time. But we need to for cspan, because people are allowed to get on cspan and to say whatever they want and they say things like they are absolutely true that people leave cspan believing because they heard it on cspan it may be true. I believe cspan has the duty to start doing some checking. It can happen the next day saying the person who said this yesterday was not telling the truth. Host the of a question for the panel do you have a question for the panel since we have them here . Caller yes. Host what is your question . Caller i do not have a question for mr. Bopp. Im sorry if i miss pronounce your name. He is just an apologist for donald trump. The other gentlemen, i would like to ask, am i still on . Host yes. Caller you just said the Supreme Court done correctly by the congress and of that is not true because they held up that and that is not true because they hold up Supreme Court appointments for over one year so that donald trump could appoint another so please do not tell people it was done correctly. It was not. Host first of roosevelt, the call that referring to Merrick Garland nomination. Guest look at mary governing and Amy Coney Barrett processes, it is hard to square what is going on in anything other than make it partisanship. We should all admit why did obama only get two apartments and trump get three in one term. That is not illegal. The way it was done. It is not unconstitutional. The senate has the authority to refuse the consent to Supreme Court domination. That is what they did. What i have been saying is this shows the system is broken. This shows the system was not designed to accommodate the kind of partisan power grabs we are seeing. Because the framers of the constitution did not anticipate Political Parties. If you do not have Political Parties fighting for control of the Supreme Court, it is not matter how many appointments each president s get. If you do have Political Parties fighting for control and you have a minority of the country controlling the senate because of equal status suffrage in the senate, you can get a situation where the president is the popular vote and appoints justices confirmed by senators representing a minority of the population and get minority taking control of most of the federal government and i think that is a bad think which is why im pursuing term limits. To Say Something is done correctly legally under our existing system, does not mean it is good. I think it is not good. I think our system has flaws that can be improved. Host dennis in idaho. Caller good morning. Host what is your question or comment . Caller lifelong conservative and i think i was used to like we kind of had minority rules this country. I was to remind everyone the democrats on the left, they always outvote us on the federal plane. Donald trump lost by almost 8 million votes. I know it was only a handful of those in a few states but we are a real democracy, come on. My views would never get imposed. To mr. Mr. Bopp, i think that obviously just because our views are not popular does not mean we can put them on everyone. With those fake electives, that is when he crossed the line. I think Everything Else you can say you think you were cheated. Even as he paced to the federal indictment it clearly says he can claim he was the election was stolen but when you start pressuring Election Officials, when you start trying to actually overturn the election, that is when things got out of line. Host mr. Bopp, do you want to respond . Guest well, a lot of it was hard to respond to, particularly the personal attacks on him and he has no ideas what my views are. The second is the remedy is the vote against the person you do not like. If you do not like trump did those things or in democracy what you do is vote against him. The question here with respect to Section Three is it going to be interpreted so proudly that it will encompass not only trump, but many other people, and be the result is the person is taken out the decision bind democrats, public officials, courts, lawyers, not the voters, taken on the ballot so you never get the choice. I think that is antidemocratic. On occasion it is definitely justified, but it should not be we should not just turn over our elections to lawyers and judges. The voters need to decide who is president. You do not like trump, put against him. Host valerie in michigan, democrat. Good morning. Caller good morning. Mr. Bopp, said we should turn it over to the voters. When they impeached him, they said he could be charged afterwards with the crimes he had committed. As far as the 14th amendment i really do not understand how they are saying the 14th amendment, Section Three is so complicated but the Second Amendment is not. That is way more complicated than the 14th amendment. The 14th amendment uses plain words. It falls in the category of citizenship and age. You cannot do anything like donald trump did and still be qualified to be the most powerful man in the world. He tried to overthrow the election. Host mr. Bopp, coming back to one of the first things valerie said they are. During the impeachment process, you heard from republicans senator saying donald trump could be charged with a crime down the road of the facts were there, but it did not warrant the impeachment that was happening. Guest an impeachment are properly provided provided for appropriate misconduct. You can impeach officers of the United States and elected officials. That is antidemocratic. It needs to be viewed narrowly, not just open it up widely. If patients impeachment is a political process. Often it is in the eye of the beholder whether or not a particular official committed high crime. That is the process. There is a terrible people who claim to support democracy are running around saying people ought to be removed from the ballot. That is antidemocratic. That is not prodemocratic. These are questions people should decide. If you thought he engaged in reckless rhetoric, which is the most he did, that anyone could argue, because he did not conduct, then vote against him. Not remove him from the ballot. Host professor roosevelt, that point, want to get your response to secretary of state brad raffensperger. He wrote in the wattage region about this effort to g secretarys estate apply Section Three. For secret sta to remove a candidate would onlforc the grievances of those who see the system as a rigged and corr that i am voters the opportunity ou founders believe government is just one is earned consent of the governed taken away the ability to choo objt to the eligibility of candidates eliminates that consent for slightly less than half of the country. Guest i do believe in democracy. I think in democracy generally speaking the remedy is to vote against people or policies you do not like. In democracy, i think the person who gets the most votes wins. We do not do that. We have the Electoral College. It is an antidemocracy feature of the constitution. We got in constitution certain qualifications for holding office. To be president yet to be a natural born citizen and a 35 years old and not broken your oath and not engaged in insurrection against u. S. Of those three qualifications i like be no oath breaking the best. It is faithful to the constitution to follow that and i think it is faithful to democracy. Because what happened on january 6 was a rejection of democracy. If you state that the people vote, let their votes count, biden won the election in 2020. He won the popular vote. He when the Electoral College and some people would not accept that. For them now to say democracy as our guiding principle when the whole issue here is the consequences of trying to overthrow the government in defiance of an election seems a little bit strange to me. Host raymond in North Carolina. Republican. Caller good morning. My question is whether these people consider to be the real insurrection was right to request the government and say they disagree with the election or the people who are in the crowd working for the deep state saying get into that building, break into that building. Those of the real insurrection is. Those are the real insurrectionists. Yet just think about future elections. If you can stop someone from running from office over there, that itself is overthrowing of the political process. Were not host running short on time. Professor roosevelt, why dont you start. Guest if you think that is what happened on january 6 then there is not been insurrection that trump to be held responsible for. I do not think that is what happened and i do not think it was the deep state that urged people to breach the capital. I think it was the proud boys. I think trump encouraged that. Think it was a broader plan to overturn the result of a fair and legitimate election. I think of a guy disqualification suit and the Supreme Court here said, the evidence will come out and we will decide what we decide. Guest the last 20 years, every time a republican president is elected, we have members of the house and senate trying to overthrow that election by objecting to trump electors in various states, making many more objections they made recently regarding. Isnt it funny the democrats have been doing that for years, it is never been described as an insurrection or overthrow of the government, but of course, it was under that definition. Overthrowing the government because they would be trying to overthrow the results of an election. This wildly broad the chaos out of an electoral system and provide shot voters of their choice that. Is not democratic. And i dont care what they think they are doing. What they are doing is denying democracy. Host perhaps that conversation we can continue down the road. Well leave it there this morning. James bopp junior is an attorney. And Kermit Roosevelt is a Law School Professor at the university of pennsylvania law school. Thank you for your time this morning. Coming up in about 20 minutes a closer look at this weeks census report showing a jump in poverty rates. The first in 13 years. That discussion with former chief economist and brook eugs senior fellow Wendy Edelberg. Until then its our open forum. Any Public Policy issue, any political issue that you want to discuss, phone lines are yours. Numbers on the screen. Start calling in now. Well be right back. Join us monday night for the premiere of cspans new series in partnership with the library of congress well explore 10 books from American Literature that provoked thought, won awards, and significance of societal change and still talked about today. This week will feature common sense a. 47 page pamphlet written by thomas paine in 1776. Richard bell, history professor at the university of maryland, talks about him through his pamphlet. A month later the declaration of independence. Launch books watch books that shaped america monday night at 9 00 eastern on cspan. Cspan now, our free mobile video app, or online california span. Org. Scan the q. R. Code to listen to our companion podcast. You can learn more about the authors of the books featured. Since 1979, in partnership with the cable industry, cspan has provided complete coverage of the halls of congress. From the house and senate floors, to congressional hearings, party briefings, and committee meetings. Cspan gives you a front row seat to show how debates are decided. No commentary, no interruptions, and completely unfiltered. Cspan, your unfiltered view of government. Healthy democracy doesnt just look like this. It looks like this. Where americans can see democracy at work. When people are truly informed our republic thrives. Get informed straight from the source on cspan. Unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. From the nations capitol to wherever you are. The opinion that matters the most is your own. This is what democracy looks like. Cspan, powered by cable. Washington journal continues. Host just after 9 a. M. On the east coast. Its our open forum. Time for you to lead the discussion on washington journal. If you want to join us democrats, 2027488000. Republicans, 2027488001. Independents, 2027488002. Any Public Policy, political issue you want to talk about, now is your time to do so. As you are calling in, just a few scheduling updates for you this morning. And this afternoon here on cspan. At 10 a. M. In just about an hour ll take you to an event where justice jackson, will be marking the anniversary of the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in birmingham. The 60th anniversary of that Church Bombing where four girls were killed during the Civil Rights Movement four black girls were killed at the church. Watch that live at 10 a. M. Eastern here on cspan, cspan. Org and the free cspan now video app. Also today at 2 p. M. , former Vice President mike pence and South Carolina senator Lindsey Graham among the speakers at tpoeufp Research Council summit here in d. C. 2 p. M. Eastern. Cspan now, and cspan. Org. Then 7 p. Is evening, former President Trump a 2024 president ial candidate, Donald Trump Administration is tkopbd trump is the keynote speaker for womens cce for america. You ca watch live at 7. M eastern on cspan. Cspan now, and cspan. Org. Thats it for the scheduling updates for you. Now time for your calls. This is dwight in fairfax, virginia. Line for democrats. Good morning. Caller hi. Good morning. I just have a request in light of your last conversation with the two gentlemen. There are approximately, from what i understand, six states that are entertaining, besides colorado, the thought of putting the question on their ballots to eliminate donald trump from the election. I was wondering if you guys could just have a callin for those six states to see what their feeling what they are feeling about this. About this in their states. Like you do for other topics with democrats and republicans. Host its not a bad idea. We did a whole hour long, first hour segment on the 14th amendment issue after the suit was filed in colorado. We had a couple of colorado callers. Its not a bad idea. I appreciate the discussion. Caller some of them some of the other states, rhode island, New Hampshire, these other states they havent actually started the process yet but they are thinking about t it would be interesting to see what the people of those states think about either it going on the ballot or whatever. Host thanks for the suggestion. Maybe well do that down the road. This is ken in erie, illinois. Republican. Good morning. Caller yes. If donald trump had a heart attack today and died, his policies would still remain for whoever did run if it was desantis or scott or whoever. Its not the people that call in that hate donald trump are missing the boat. If he didnt run, the policies that he had about the energy independence, not letting seven or eight million Illegal Immigrants into the country, man, the agony our country will suffer over that is beyond belief. People cant speak the language, they cant work. They got to place to stay. Where do they go this winter. The taxpayers are all paying for this. What are we pursuing . The greeny weenie program. Destroy american energy. Buy dirty oil from venezuela. All of this stuff it causes and then biden sends out 2,500 checks to people. My whole family got that. My children are all tremendously well employed. None of us needed that money. All that money did was just cause inflation. Now we cant afford groceries. We cant afford gas. The poor people that have been saving up for a house for 10 years, they are out of the market now because this drove up the rates of housing. Used to be 2 for a house. Now you pay 7 . What are these poor young people doing . And then you get people calling in, gosh, biden has done a really good job. Trump was just a con man. Trump conned us into believing paying touchdown for gas instead of 4 was good. Host carlos out of pasadena, california. Good morning. Independent. Open forum. Caller hi, long time listener and watching your cspan. I like watching cspan because you get the pulse of the people. Donald trump is not the problem. We are the problem. We are sits tprepbic schizophrenic. The United States is schizophrenic. Im a christian. And thats a loaded word, actually. Because we are the worst representatives, christian, of jesus christ. Its just amazing how we psychologically america is in trouble. We are in trouble. You better hold on to those red letters in the bible that jesus left us. We are in trouble. We are in trouble. Host you say we are the problem in his column today in usa today, tim writes, democracy faces a threat, our attitude f you want to be part of the solution and not a source of the problem, here are some questions you could ask yourself. How often do you engage in thoughtful conversations with fellow americans who dont share your political views . Are you willing to listen to opposing opinions . Is your setting to ridicule or dismost those who are different viewpoints of your own. Do you truly value diversity or do you think our nation would be better if we had 50 shades of vermont or 50 of oklahoma. Its more about attitude than action. What our democracy needs is change in attitude. A willingness among more americans to extend respect, courtesy, and grace to those who dont share their opinions or even their values. Tim in todays usa today. If you want to read more. Dennis in ohio. Line for democrats. Good morning. Caller good morning, john, how are you today . Host well. Caller i didnt read anything about this extended amount of poverty. Neither of my newspapers i get covered that story. I was an enumerator in my neighborhood. I live in a section of ohio thats integrated. It gave me a unique perspective. We have this sugar dale plant, fresh mart, in my neighborhood. Fairly close. A lot of the people that work there are from guatemala. They wouldnt talk to me at all. Under any circumstances. Because of the rhetoric that was coming out of the trump administration, which is the quoteunquote, noncitizens. Even though they were supposed to be counted they wouldnt allow themselves to be counted. Hi a problem talking to these people because there was no way i didnt know spanish. I dont know spanish. But even if i did, it wouldnt have applied because their language has more mayan words in it. It wasnt until one particular guy told me what i needed to find out. Even then i couldnt find it anywhere to do this. The other thing i ran into was the people that had the trump pins on, they didnt talk to me. Apparently it was a government conspiracy that im even out there talking to people. They wouldnt even allow themselves to be counted as well. Then finally, i ran into a lot of black people that wouldnt didnt want themselves to be counted even though they lived in areas that i knew were the poverty sections of masswood. They wouldnt allow themselves to be counted because they are just sick and tired of the whole process. They dont feel like they are getting a fair shake no matter what. I think they all believe, rightly so, that we need to do something with regards to i guess we have to fix some of the issues that we have created over time. The redlining. The lack of access to federal mortgages, what have you. Its a difficult situation to be in. Host in about 10 minutes we are going to delve into that report on poverty rates across the country. Just some numbers you can see and these are the numbers well talk about. You can see Poverty Level in 2019, if you start at the bottom of the page there, just about 12 . When covid hits in 2020, 2021, social safety net programs expanded. The poverty rate declined to 9. 2 in 2020. To 7. 8 in 2021. Some of those programs ended in 2022, and can you see the poverty rate in this country, 12. 4 in 2022. That was what was reported this week. The Child Poverty rate especially expanded in 202t well delve more into those numbers from the Census Bureau in just about five or 10 minutes. This is dianna also from ohio, line for republicans. Good morning. Are you with us . Well go to birmingham. Frank, independent, good morning. Caller good morning. So glad to be able to share with you. Let me straighten records up right quick for you since you guys are going to do thin in birmingham there. Were two bill boys killed september 15. Johnny robinson and virgil ware. One was killed on the bicycle handle bars. White boy shot him. And the other was shot as well. And they always called them this host birmingham on the same day . Caller september 16. Host 16th Street Baptist Church in. Caller it was downtown. Normally i lay a writhe where they were shot at and celebrate both of them. Both were shot in birmingham downtown. One was shot in the suburbs of birmingham. So we finally get them recognized. Let me just say three things. One, they always black politician when is they get elected, Something Like close elections they find a way, like ms. Harris, ms. Brown this morning, will be at 16th Street Baptist Church. You dont see that. Heres two things. They march backwards. The original rout from rout from root from phroe test route, they march from 16th street baptist from jailhouse. They march backwards for convenience. From the civic center. Thats not fair. Also the childrens march. Now they just build a park there. On the backs of poor people. What they do the childrens march is supposed to be from 16th Street Baptist Church again to city hall. Host thats the one that happened in may . Caller the original one. Now they march from 16th street to railroad park. Railroaduse it was too Railroad Tracks that the confederates used in birmingham. Those two Railroad Tracks almost allowed the confederates to win. Im the guy calling in to tell you first dealt with the monument. Confederate monument. Now we have a library sits right outside of birmingham, city hall, thats named for two confederates captains. Mann and henley. We tore up the statue. Captain lynn because he traded more slaves up and down the mobile river. And Alabama River than anybody else. And also we have a Research Library named for the same two. Henry is the soninlaw of charles lynn. I would be calling here every time bringing these issues. You yourself need to come to birmingham and talk with us and live in birmingham. All they talk about is this and that. We broke a record that lasted from 1933 until last year where we had 152 homicides in birmingham. We close to getting there the same mark this year. A lot about birmingham that the world needs to know. Host how often do you make it over to the 16th Street Baptist Church . Caller i got out of prison. I went to prison. I got put in the county jail when i was 11 years old h a criminal history. Went to prison. A guy got struck by lightning host what did you go to jail for . Caller for everything. No sexual crimes. Robbery. P my whole life matter of fact a certain person i wont mention did my whole life story. When i got out i made it my own thing to go to the monument every day. You would be amazed the black people aint never been they dont go to the park where dr. King and the four little girls were at. And then since i have been out of prison. I got early parole, pardon. Rights restored. I ran for mayor twice. I was first black guy to get in a runoff in a predominant white district black district, but the local percentage of whites had the vote. I was first black guy got in a runoff with a white female. I dedicated my whoef life. I get so sick and tired of when things like this happen. Just like, im saying too much, you dont remember anything, doug jones did not prosecute. A man by the name of Charles Cochran and robert posey was appointed by george bush after doug jones would not listen to myself and Abraham Woods, a lieutenant of dr. King. The f. B. I. Agent by the name of mr. Lankford. Director of the northern district. He met with us to see what he could do to try to get black people in birmingham to be more accepting of the f. B. I. Reverend Abraham Woods and others put it on the agenda that new evidence and they need to bring forth the case. Host aim running short on time. Wrap it up. Caller you need you all need to tie in whats going on in birmingham, sir. I promise you. This is a great time to do it. While ms. Harris excuse me, ms. Brown is here. Shes not for reparation, neither is Kamala Harris. Shows black women thank you for taking my call. Host frank in birmingham, alabama. In about 40 minutes this morning on cspan you can watch that commemoration of the 60th anniversary of the Church Bombing at the 16th Street Baptist Church in birmingham. Justice jackson will be there as part of that commemoration here on cspan, cspan. Org and the free cspan now video app. That does it for our open forum. Stick around in our last 40 minutes well take a closer look at the census report that came out this week showing a jump in u. S. Poverty rates. That conversation with brookings senior fell, wendy fellow Wendy Edelberg. Well be right back. Books that shaped america. A new series that explores key works that have had an impact on our society. Join in the conversation by commit smithing your pick for the book you think helped shape this country. Tkpwao to our website cspan. Org, slash books that shaped america. Press the viewer input tab and select record the video. In 30 seconds or less tell us your pick and why. Beloved by tony morrison. The cat in the hat because it revel hrao ugsized childrens books. Soldier written by colin powell. Join others from across the country as we look back on books that provoke thought, policy change, and our still ar still talked about today. Be sure to watchoo that shaped america live every monday beginning september8 at 9 p. M. Eastern on cspan. Since 1979, in partnership with the cable industry, cspan has provided complete coverage of the halls of congress, from the house and senate floors, to congressional hearings, party briefings, and committee meetings. Cspan gives you a front row seat to how issues are debated and decided. With no commentary. No interruptions. And completely unfiltered. Cspan, your unfiltered view of government. Sunday on q a, Georgetown University law professor cliff sloan, author of the court at war, talks about the civil rights and Civil Liberties cases taken up by the u. S. Supreme court during world war ii and the state of the court today. The stain of the antijapanese cases, which is a very, very deep stain, as well as the nazi saboteur case and rush to justice in those cases. Those cases, i think, have important lessons for us. One is the danger of excessive deference to the governments claim of national security, because they were wildly inflated in both cases. But the second i think is especially important today, is the danger and catastrophe that can result when justices are unwilling to stand up to the president who appointed them or to their political patrons. Thats an especially important lesson today. At a time when more than at any time in our history the positions of the justices correlate with the Political Party of the president who appointed them. Cliff sloan with his book, the courts at war. Sunday night at 8 eastern on cspans q a. Listen to q a and all of our podcasts, our free cspan now app. A healthy democracy doesnt just look like this. It looks like this. Where americans can see democracy at work. Constituents are truly informed our republic thrives. Get informed, straight from the source. On cspan. Unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. From the Nations Capital to wherever you are. The opinion that matters the most is your own. This is what democracy looks like. Cspan, powered by cable. Washington journal continues. Host discussion now on poverty in america. Our guest is Wendy Edelberg, senior fellow at the brookings institution, former chief economist at the Congressional Budget Office. Good morning to you this morning. Guest good morning. Host headline from abc news on the report that we are going to be talking about, poverty rate jumped in 2022. Child poverty more than doubled. The first question, why . Whats the cause of such a steep jump in 2022 . Guest sadly this increase was not surprising. So lets review how we got here. As the pandemic hit, i was enormously concerned about what would happen to poverty rates and poverty rates for children. Even more particularly. And as it turns out we ran a very successful experiment in this country. We put in place really significant fiscal policies that temporarily reduced poverty rates. Even in the midst of a pandemic. But unfortunately, those policies were temporary. We have now erased all of the gains that we made in poverty and in Child Poverty in particular. All the gains we made in 2020 and 2021, and now poverty rates are back to where they were before the pandemic. Host those numbers, just so viewers, even our visual learners n. 2019 the u. S. Poverty rate, 11. 8 . In 2020 amid the fell to 9. 2 . Down to 7. 8 in 2021. That jumped, the one reported this week by the Census Bureau, 12. 4 on Child Poverty, which you mentioned, let me run through the numbers. 2020, 9. 7 down to 5. 2 in 2021. More than doubling in 202 2rbgs back up to above 2020 levels, 12. 4 . You mentioned policy that is helped us. What specific policies . Guest the game changer for Child Poverty was making whats called the Child Tax Credit fully refundable. What that means is that if your income is too low, you basically didnt have access to the Child Tax Credit at all. Quite ironically, we would give the way fiscal policy works now is because its not fully refundable. If you have a higher income, you might be eligible for a very generous Child Tax Credit. The number of Young Children you have at home. If you are poor, so your taxes arent very high, you may not be eligible for any Child Tax Credit. Thats crazy. In 2021 the American Rescue plan made the Child Tax Credit fully refundable so it went to the population that needs it most. And that was the biggest game changer in reducing Child Poverty. Host it was only around from july to december of 2021. What happened then . Guest it expired. While people like me were jumping up and down on the sidelines saying we need to extend full refundability, policymakers allowed it to expire. I should say the hamilton project, which i run, has put out a proposal that i encourage everybody to look at in a way that we can make it at least partially refundable to put it back in place. Host the hamilton project at brookings, what is that . Guest we are a part of brookings. Think tank here in washington, d. C. We put out policy proposals and research to give policymakers concrete ideas to change the policy debate to improve Economic Growth, but also to make sure that that Economic Growth is more equitably shared. Host outside of the expanded tax credit, what else helped reduce those poverty rates . We saw those numbers in 2020 and 2021. What were some of the other programs . Guest the other big thing that we did, policymakers should definitely revisit, is the expansion of the Unemployment Insurance program. In normal times, including now, a remarkably small share of workers that become unemployed have access to the Unemployment Insurance system. What we did in 2020 and 2021 we vastly expanded who among the unemployed would have access to that system. And we also made it more generous. It turns out that did a huge amount of good in helping families. Where somebody became unemployed and supporting the economy more broadly through the years. Host what are your thoughts on work requirements when it comes to Unemployment Insurance . Guest generally speaking when we think about work requirements, means tested programs. Im going to go up 1,000 feet from your question. Generally speaking work requirements dont work. Work requirements actually just put barriers in place. All sorts of administrative barriers, hurdles people dont fill out the paperwork correctly. They get a whole lot of people off their roles. They make a whole lot of people ineligible. Sadly, work requirements generally speaking dont do a very good job at encouraging work. Host Wendy Edelberg is our guest. Former chief economy at the Congressional Budget Office w our program at 10 a. M. This morning. Start calling n30 minutes left. Phone lines differently this morning. If you your income year is under 30,000 the number to call is 2027488000. If you make between 30,000 and 75,000 a year, the number, 2027488001. If you make over 75,000 a year, 2027488002. Thats how we split up the phone lines this morning. Start calling in. As folks are calling in, Wendy Edelberg, explain the difference between poverty rate, supplemental poverty measure, the poverty line. What do these terms mean and whats the best term to understand how many people are very poor in this country . Guest i think a lot of people who look carefully at this data think the supplemental poverty measure is actually a far more useful measure of poverty than other rates. The official poverty measure, sometimes youll hear it called the o. P. M. , measures what peoples cash income is. So for most of us thats our labor market income. It also includes some cash benefits you get from the government, including Unemployment Insurance. Its really, to a large degree, a pretax and transfer measure of income. Im sure well talk about it when we talk about whats happened to the labor market in the United States and how thats affected peoples resources, the supplemental poverty measure goes way further in thinking about how the tax code affects peoples resources. They have to pay taxes. They also might get tax credits. It also incorporates transfers that they get from the government. Including in kind transfers. Like snap benefits. The supplemental poverty measure is a much better measure of families actual resources. Its more commonly used among researchers. Host well show it to viewers. The u. S. Poverty rate over time from 2009202022. It has both the official poverty rate as the redline on this chart and the supplemental poverty measure. And a slight uptick on the official poverty rate in from 2021 to 2022. That big v jump on the supplemental poverty measure. Once again explain that big v jump. This is those programs you were talking about ending at the end of the covid crisis. Guest lets first talk about why it fell so much. It fell so much because the supplemental poverty measure included the Child Tax Credit. It included an expansion in snap benefits, sometimes called food stamps. It include the Economic Impact payments which were very large in 2020 and 2021. All and Everything Else that was happening in the tax code. All those things were incorporated in the spwhrel poverty measure, but not the official poverty measure. Thats why poverty fell so dramatically. Of course as we talked about, just about all of those fiscal policy that policy that is were put in place that led to it falling, those temporary measures expired. Lo and behold its risen back to where it was before the pandemic. Host whats the poverty line . What do you need to make less than to be considered under the poverty line . In this country . Guest thats a really good question i should know off the top of my head and dont know. Host we have plenty of callers waiting to chat with you this morning. Colleen up first out of st. Claire shores, michigan. That line for those who make under 30,000 a year. Thanks for calling. Guest hi. Thanks for having me. It really astounds me that i get Social Security, and under that i lost my snap benefits. Which is 1200 a month. Which is hard to live on. And no one is talking about corporate greed. They keep talking about how inflation. Corporations raised all their prices, and nobody, not one corporation lowered them back down once the pandemic was over. In fact, they just keep raising them. And everyone is upset with the democrats. Has nothing to do with democrat or republican. Its corporate greed. Host wendy, inflation and Poverty Levels in this country. Guest lets say a few things. I definitely understand the frustration that the caller is expressing. First, the good news is we have seen some evidence of corporations, or anybody selling products, goods, food we have seen evidence that they are reducing their prices. As supply chains have become untangled. Also as demand has fallen. It turns out these sellers do remember how to lower prices. Thats a very good thing. The or thing i want to talk about is snap. These food benefits are something that should be on our radar for whats happening to poverty measures right now in 2023. We have been talking about what we know about poverty in 2022. Snap benefits actually remained quite generous through the middle part of this year, 2023. But then that it generosity that generosity also expired. Thats going to be another reason why we might see when we finally get the supplemental poverty measure for 2023, why we might see yet another increase. Host on the poverty line, or federal Poverty Level, i get why it was an unfair question because it changes depending on the size of a family. Health care. Gov with a chart. I can read them out for you. Family of five if you make under 35,000. 140 a year. In 2023. Your 2023 income. Then you are below the federal Poverty Level. 35, 140 or below. Or an individual, federal Poverty Level is 14,580. And then viewers can see on that chart how it changes on family size. Health care. Gov is where i grabbed those numbers from. Other websites in the federal government as well. Darell in kentuckys, also on that line for those who make under 30,000 a year. Good morning. Caller good morning. I seen how the poverty rate is. President trump right there, it was low when he was in office. Buy things. Cars. Family, food on the table for the family. Joe biden, he got in office, everything went skyhigh. And everybodys struggling. You got People Living on the streets. People trying to make things for themselves and they are having a hard time doing that. What this lady was talking about is i dont know what shes trying to prove, but if you look what has happened here in the United States, people are out of jobs. People are living on the streets. People cant afford houses today. They cant afford anything. I dont know what they are going to do. Thats all i have to say. Host wendy, what do you want to do . Guest so, lets talk about inflation. What we learned in this report about the effects of inflation. One thing we learned, which is not good news, is that for the medium family real income fell by a little over 2 . Thats not good news. That largely reflects the effect on inflation. Incomes did not keep up with inflation. Let me say two things about that. First, i think its plausible we were going to get to the other side of the pandemic and have no big negative economic effect. The pandemic was enormous negative shock. It was a bad thing. There was our economy was not going to come out of it unscathed. I think one of the ways of understanding this reduction in Median Income is this is one of the this is one of the way that is we are going to absorb the serious blow of the pandemic. Heres the good news. We go back to the official poverty measure, which as we talked about incorporates all of the labor income. It takes into account how, for people at the bottom of the income distribution, how good a job labor income did with keeping up with inflation. We can see in the o. P. M. That poverty rates basically moved sideways. What that tells us is that the strength of the labor market was pretty good for those at the bottom of the income distribution. Labor income for poor people, people with low wages and salaries, basically kept up with inflation. Yes, as an economy, all of us ash sorbed a serious absorbed a serious negative economic effect. The labor market was Strong Enough that our most vulnerable have largely been insulated from the effects through inflation and the labor market. And thats really good news. Host do you want to bring back the expanded Child Tax Credit . Is that something you want to do . Guest absolutely. Making the Child Tax Credit, in particular, making the Child Tax Credit fully refundable is a nobrainer. What that does is it gets the resources to the families with children who need those resources the most. It baffles me that we would try to that we would keep the Child Tax Credit away from the poor families with Young Children who need that money the most. Host the Tax Foundation scott hodge writing around the time the debate was happening over keeping the expanded Child Tax Credit put out a study reference add study from Congress Joint Committee on taxation. This is what he wrote just on the cost of keeping the expanded Child Tax Credit. This report from the joint Committee Sets both the budgetary and Economic Impact of expanding the Child Tax Credit. The j. P. T. Determined it would be a budget buster, reducing revenue by more than 1. 3 trillion over the next decade. Is that something we can afford . Guest one of the reasons that these estimates are so very expensive is because we what we have done in recent years is we have also made the size of the tax credit a lot larger. Middle income families, families making 150,000 a year, now receive a much more generous Child Tax Credit than they did, lets say, in 2016. I am all for reducing the overall generosity of the Child Tax Credit. And improving its targeting and getting to the most to the poorest families. The other thing is that we talk a lot about whether or not the Child Tax Credit giving it to poor families, families that have little income, whether or not it creates a disincentive to work. Im not sure how big that disincentive is, but im onboard with the research that shows that there is, indeed, overall first lets trade off im willing to take. Second, there are ways to organize the Child Tax Credit to actually make more of an incentive to work. Im going to send you again to the hamilton project website where melissa and i put out a proposal for ways to expand the Child Tax Credit to actually create more incentives to work among lowincome families rather than dampening incentives. Host they can find that at brookings. Edu. Guest they can or hamilton project. Org. Host serena in asheville, North Carolina, also the line for those who make under 30,000 a year. Caller hi. I have been listening here and im very concerned about the economy. I travel around the country and i seen my people broke in the street. Im extremely concerned. Number one, we should never deny the money the ability to eat. Our government should be funding people to be able to eat. Its job creation. I dont understand second of all, it when it comes to the earned income tax credit, they used to have a program where if you paid more in taxes, then we would get an incentive, which you would get more money at the end of the year if you increased your tax bracket. I dont know if they are still doing that. Most of our population doesnt receive federal income tax returns. Thats why our economy has gotten so stand still. The all the money going into the economy did two things. We see people without the money they need to get into places. It really goes a long way as far as rising above the Poverty Level. For stuff you need. Without that money coming in, you see a decrease in the economy and you are also seeing a decrease in how people are taken care of. Host let me pause there and let wendy jump in. A couple issues sabrina brings up. Guest generally speaking, what shes talking about is that if you dont if you dont pay taxes, then you are not eligible for tax credits unless we have called those tax credits what are socalled fully refundable. Thats what we have been talking about with the Child Tax Credit. If you are a family that doesnt pay federal taxes, even if you are poor, even if you have Young Children, you are not eligible for the Child Tax Credit. Thats bad policy. You also talked about the earned income tax credit. Like all card carrying economists, i love the earned income tax credit. It basically increases the return to work for people who arent paid very much. That is very, very good policy. One thing that we need to do is make the earned income tax credit more generous for people without children. We have a hard we have done complicated things in policy of commingling what the Child Tax Credit is trying to do and what the earned income tax credit is trying to do. We need to entangle them and make the earned income tax credit more generous for people who dont have children. Its really about, just for everybody, increasing the return to work. Host just about 10 minutes left with Wendy Edelberg of brookings institution. Former chief economist at the c. B. O. Tax Wendy Edelberg Wendy Edelberg. Caller good morning, ms. Edelberg. Thank you so much. Great guest. Ill get right to the point. I have seen reports that the Child Tax Credit literally overnight cut Child Poverty by anywhere from 25 to 45 . Yet we just got we turned it off. Its like we decided that we are ok with Child Poverty. My other thing is, its very well been reported now, but wasnt originally, that up to 60 of inflation was from corporations. I work for one of the Largest Gas Companies in the world. It was corporate gouging. And we all knew that. I want to know why was so much familicies put on, no, people dont want to work because unemployment is too good. Why are people being so bad about blaming it on the people when in fact the corporations were just sucking up host got your point. Wendy. Guest what i would like to come back to is your very depressing point and very correct points about Child Poverty. Yes, Child Poverty doubled from 2021 to 2022. And now almost 20 of children who are black or hispanic are in poverty. One in five. So what we saw from 2021 to 2022 was millions of children going back into poverty. We saw about five million more children in poverty in 2022 than in 2021. Thosums are those numbers are stomach churning and should embarrass us. Host john in new jersey, that line for those who make under 30,000 a year. Good morning. Caller my name is john west. I am learned disability and i make under 30,000. Im a College Graduate. I think one of the things we are not dealing with is poverty situation is that im on snap. And they have cut back on my benefits. Also im a College Graduate and i still havent paid off my student loan. And i think part of the poverty we are dealing with children, especially people who are special needs, we are not dealing with the issues around that. Part of it is employment and part of it is some companies, even with the government, are not looking at people with learning disabilities fairly. And the american disabilities act has not done a job in dealing with these issues. With the phofrt issue poverty issue that we are dealing with, part of it is you live in communities in urban areas that are old. And theres not too many jobs there. The republicans who use the idea we need to learn to work better, are they going to pay for their services to go to those places in their suburban areas . Host pick up that question. Wendy edelberg. Guest heres what we learned in the past couple of years. We learned what was a really obvious lesson. Which is that fiscal policy conducted by the federal government can do enormous good to alleviate poverty. And we just have to return to those lessons. Outside of a recession, its probably about 200 billion worth of fiscal policy to completely eradicate poverty in the United States. This is not expensive. We know how to do it. We just need the political will. Host this is minnesota. Moses that line for those who make between 30,000 and 75,000 a year. Good morning. You are on with Wendy Edelberg. Caller good morning, cspan. Good morning, america. The interesting thing is when you talk about Child Poverty, those children have parents. And those parents are experiencing double the Interest Rates on their homes because of fiscal poeucy policy and because of the drunken spending these politicians are doing in washington. If you want to save money, why dont you take your think tank and think about how we can balance the budget so we have less debt . Because there you are going to have about 800 billion a year on interest alone that we cant stand that. Its going to kill everybody. When you talk about house prices, housing went up, the average Median Income house went up double because you have three big companies, vanguard, black rock buying up the individual houses which double price for the average medium house. There you go. Balance the budget. Get out of debt. Host Wendy Edelberg. Guest i entirely agree that the size of the debt, how much the federal government borrows, has a relationship with the Interest Rates that we pay. I think that there is very credible evidence linking how large deficits are and how high Interest Rates are. But as much as i think that there is really credible empirical relationship, its pretty small. I dont know that we can attribute very much of the rise in Interest Rates and particularly what we have seen in mortgage rates, which are really their own animal, i dont know how much of that we can really attribute to the rise to the increases in federal spending. That said, i, like many people, am worried about the unsustainable fiscal trajectory. I dont think, in fact im very confident, that we should not take painful abrupt actions right now. But generally speaking i think we are an undertaxed country. The hamilton project, again, as put out multiple proposals, in fact we have an event at the end of this month, september 26, where we will put out a proposal that helps to address exactly some of these issues about the federal budget that the caller mentioned. Host what would you describe as a painful abrupt action . Guest oh. You could cut Social Security benefits by 20 . That would surely help the federal budget. It would be enormously painful. You could those are the sorts of things i have in mind. Host up to california. This is andrew, that line for those who make under 30,000 a year. Good morning. Caller ms. Edelberg, i have been listening to the context of this. Like a lot of american politics i get a little purr turned by perturbed by it because context is not fully given. It seems like the numbers which you are talking about does not include the distinction between demographic areas where you are dealing on a federal level, state level with 50 states, territories, and then county governments which there are approximately 3,000 county governments in the United States. Benefits and social programs for the most part are put to the American People in a manner that is distributed on the county left but devised under federal and under statewide level which doesnt necessarily relate to the programs involved. My interest very much is revolving around the actual costs and administration and how much money is wasted generally speaking, which is not something i really enjoy bringing up because of the way clinton had the issue, reagan had the issue. Where its just a general football between republicans and democrats. Id like to say id like to see benefits distributed more equitably on an issue basis. If someone needs benefits, i dont see why the Geographic Area where they are from really has anything to do with them getting food. Or anything to do with health care. We have a medicare system which goes all over the place. But then its supplemented, 20 of that is supplemented on the state level. And they only distribute their benefits based on the general Geographic Areas of states and counties. A lot of people very often are thrown off or misdirect tkr ebgted or deprived of misdirected or tkpraoeufrbed of benefits based on the Geographic Area they are from. Guest two things. One let me just give a shout out to the supplemental poverty measure, which does a very good job of measuring poverty in the context of subnational Geographic Areas. The supplemental poverty measure understands the point you are making. Whereas the official poverty measure just says heres the poverty if you are a Single Person and make less than 14,500 a year. Heres another piece of remarkable news. To get to your point. We put out research that making the Child Tax Credit fully refundable actually reduced poverty more in high poverty states. In high poverty states where generally speaking the cost much living is low, we find, this Research Finds that those states actually generally have less generous benefits for their lowincome populations. So expanding the Child Tax Credit at the federal level actually disproportionately helped lowincome families in those high poverty states. Once again im going to come back make the Child Tax Credit fully refundable because it actually does even more good in the geographies where children are most desperate. Host Wendy Edelberg, we have to end it there. A topic we can talk about in the future. The hamilton project. Whats the website . Guest amountleton project. Org hamilton project. Ofpt rg. Wait, wait, my team will kill yes, hamilton project. Org. Host follow wendy wedleberg on twitter wendy edingberg and brookings. Edu. Thanks so much. Guest happy to be here. Host now we are going to take viewers over the 16th Street Baptist Church in hurricane irmaing ham, alabama. A commemoration of the 60th anniversary of the Church Bombing there taking place today. Justice jackson will join that event. Set to begin in just a couple minutes here on cspan. Well be back here of course tomorrow morning at 7 a. M. Eastern. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy visit ncicap. Org] northwest forever and ever d ever youre watching live coverage of the commemoration of the 60th anniversary of the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing. Well hear from Ketanji Brown jackson. Shell be delivering remarks. Youre watching live coverage on cspan. Live here on cspan, the commemoration of the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in birmingham, alabama, 60 years ago that killed four young girls. Well be hearing from Supreme Court justice Ketanji Brown jackson. Shell be speaking later in this ceremony. And youre watching live coverage from birmingham. Here on cspan. When we were out op the streets, this is what we said. Were going to march. Were going to march march march march aint going to let nobody turn me around turn me around oh, no turn me around aint going to let nobody turn me around im going to keep im going to keep on marching off to freedomland im on my way to freedomland im on my way to freedomland im on my way to freedomland im on my way to freedomland im on my way to freedomland theres nothing you can do to turn me around to turn me around i said theres nothing you can do to turn me around theres nothing you can do to turn me around yes im on my way to freedomland im on my way to freedomland yes im on my way to freedomland im on my way to freedomland im on my way lord to freedomland the commemoration of the bombing of the 16th street pwap kheuft church in birmingham, alabama, 60 years ago is under way. That am beauing by whraoeut supremacists killed four young girls. Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown jackson will be speaking here today while we wait for the justices remarks, were going tyke a look at todays washington journal. The official filing of these charges being handed out by a grand jury. This is congressman andy bates, republican from arizona, saying the hunter biden indictment is a move to make you think the doj is fair. They are trying to protect him from way more serious charges coming his way. Tax charges not yet filed against hunter biden. Although that could still happen. Here is more reaction from capitol hill. Rick scott from florida is to demanding real justice in the prosecution of hunter biden, and while these indictments are better than what we saw, i have a warning for the president. The American People will never forgive you or your corruption if you parted hunter. Pardon hunter. One more from republican senator mike braun. Thats senator mike braun in his twitter message to followers, that was yesterday on capitol hill. Again, these impeachment charges, the impeachment inquiry from House Republicans earlier this week. This all happened. Getting your reaction to all of it, again, phone lines, democrats, 202488000, republicans, 2027488001, independents, 2027482002. This is tom in california, independent. A very early. Good morning. Caller good morning. Hunter biden situation i am happy the department of justice is not being biased. No one is above the law. He is basically a crackhead. Need to set an example that he needs to be sentenced to 25 years in prison if he is convicted. Also, his father needs to be impeached and removed from office. That is my perspective. Host on what you want to see when it comes to hunter biden, just a couple of blocks is the Supreme Court of the United States. Etched in stone says equal justice under law. You think we have equal justice under law in this country . Caller no. Not for most people. It seems like people that are politically powerful or rich continually get away with crimes over and over. That is disgusting and it needs to stop. Thank you for the call. Host this is roger in virginia. Good morning. Caller good morning. I think this hunter biden thing is a political hit job. Donald trumps son said one time, i heard him say, why shouldnt i make money on my daddys name . With him being president . Whats the difference in biden doing the same thing . If thats the case. But theres no evidence that the president done anything wrong. Every time we get a democrat president republicans go crazy. They shut down the government. They talk about the high prices, but they do not do nothing about it. They sit back and they blame the democrats. Host watch the language as we try to have a conversation. This is cindy in norwalk, connecticut. Caller good morning. I guess its ok that he got charged. My compassionate side feels sorry for the guy. He had a drug problem. It is sad what is going on. I feel like joe biden, his kid had a drug problem but he is putting more pressure on the kid by doing these deals that we suspect happened. Looks pretty damning. The Biden Syndicate with millions of dollars going to family members. I think its really sad for hunter. I feel like hes being used by his dad. Is there equal justice . Not really. I think the trump indictments, because none of us felt like trump convinced us the election was stolen. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2023] the bible says, i was glad when they said unto me,