and school bus drivers and their benefits at risk, but the children and the rest of america. the 13 million, we can work with, and we can speak for. all of the nonunion parents of those kids who are impacted, and we are getting that, and we are getting better at that. this is a can this operation, but it does not go to union households. it goes to nonunion households, and we find nonunion workers in michigan who think like us, and we signed them up, and they become part. this is growing, and i do not think it is stopping. >> to get to the technology piece, the innovation and technology in the last 20 or 30 years that i have been a union member, it is absolutely incredible. i think what the technology has allowed organized labor to do is we have the ability now to reach out to our constituency, not only within our own membership but within the communities where we live and work, and social networking, like facebook, like twitter -- i am not an expert on any of that stuff, but my communications director is here. he is 25 years old, and he understands the difference that we have to make knowledge in terms of the tools we use to communicate with. all the facets of the work force that we represent. all of younger people, they do not read newspapers. they do not read print. they get their news off of the internet, so we have to capitalize on that and realize that the internet and all of the social networking tools not only give us the benefit to reach further, but there is an immediacy to it. you saw that with what went on in wisconsin in madison. the streaming video of this happening simultaneously was incredible, and that is powerful. it really gives organized labor the opportunity to really get the message out, on point, you know, immediately and enables us, like rich was talking, to give this grassroots mobilization happening, where 20 years ago, it would have taken us days to do that with telephone calls and writing letters and you name it, but today, it is a matter of minutes or hours. it just really has become a tool for us, and we really need to take and manage of that, and we clearly and stand what communication works for different segments of the work force. >> it has really made it easier for us. we no longer have to ask members to write letters to congress. it is definitely a tool, and it is definitely something we need to take advantage of. >> with all of the socially and the things talked about, the percentage of the work force that is in organized labor has been going down for a long time. as leaders of the union, how do you take that? do you try to focus on growing the numbers could >> yes. the absolutely focus on growing the numbers. in cwa, there has been a change in technology, and work has gone away. organized in 10 years 40,000 wireless workers who did not have a union, right? they did not exist before. we're continuing to do that. one story about organizing in the moment, t-mobile. there is the very conservative home town of the governor of maine. it was that they had no right to organize. it was not a certainty but the possibility that t-mobile would be acquired by at&t, which is committed to a majority signup and neutrality. today, there are t-mobile workers. for the very first time, -- that change and their ability to organize -- and obviously has to do with some changes in the industry. i think we will hear more about that in the months to come. >> first of all, i cannot let the opportunity pass to say that the decline in the labor movement did not happen by accident. it was a conscientious plan, just as there was a conscientious plan by the governor. neil liberals, ronald reagan, margaret thatcher -- neo liberals. you have regulations, and they affect the union, get rid of them. they understood something. they understood that we were the ground troops. there was a great teacher who said that every time you point the finger at somebody, there are three more pointing back at you. we let young people go off. we have not tried to address their needs. we have tried to shoehorn them into a model. and now, we are trying to change that. "tell us what you need us to be so that we can represent you, so we can bring you to the labor movement." giving people a permanent seat at our counsel, and we're bringing the men in an advisory capacity. i asked them continuously what we can do. there are millions who are excluded from collective bargaining. if you are an independent contractor, if you are a health- care worker, if you are a taxi cab driver in new york, and we are going after them. we're going after them and saying, "we are going to represent you." new types of organizing drives. the most exciting international organizing drive that i have heard of in a long time. an international drive. so we are really trying to change what we do and how we do it to make ourselves more relevant to workers, and it is catching on, because more and more workers are coming our way. we started an organization four years ago. it has 3.5 million members right now that say, "i want you to represent us in the political and legislative aspect," and now, they are also starting to say, "and i also want you to represent me on the job." we have a lot of ground to cover. we sat back and let globalization come into being, and we kept denying it existed. now, we are seeing that it is here. it is not going away. >> it mentioned the need for the unions to more actively debt members. at the top of the discussion. why do the rest of you not china in on that discussion? >> -- chime in? >> to engage our membership and have them have an ownership. there is a powerpoint, and one of the things we said, members, in the 1950's coming here is what it meant. -- in the 1950's, here is what it meant. you have to be an active part of rebuilding this in america. and i think it is really important to point out one of the reasons why unionization has fallen so far. the national labor relations act, we had a campaign in north carolina, where the workers of reorganized down the road, one block away from where they were. they saw the significant difference we made in workers' lives. the companies continue to be very successful, and the company did not agree to any fair practice, so we used another fair practice. 221 to 223. massive violations filed by the national labor relations board with that corporation. you know that today, seven years later, every single member of the uaw at organizing person has been fired or driven out. we are taking direct action. we will not let them violate the first amendment rights, freedom of speech, the right to be a union and to have collective bargaining. our allies and friends, internationally, to join us in branding them human rights violators, and you will see this in the labor movement. t-mobile, all kinds of unions are saying we're finding other ways to protect labor rights because of the national labor relations board. >> if we put a cross section of the country out here, you know, bill hall represented group, what is the public perception of organized labor today in america? >> i think it is radically different. >> we have been doing polis for about four years. >> you have an interest in this. >> yes, as a matter-of-fact. about 10 years ago or 12 years ago, but people started saying "the unions are not so bad, but they really cannot help me." then about five years ago, something helped make -- something happened. "unions are not so bad, but they can help me." we set out to get that chance because of what bob talked about. the level of interest in unions, collective bargaining, understanding the process of what collective bargaining can do for you, whether you are a professional, whether you are a blue collar worker or a white collar worker or another worker. this has something to offer you. we have seen small business groups come up to was and talk about collective bargaining. to thank us for some of the things we are doing. if it is up to us to make sure that that fresh look is a good luck. about the things that we do positively, about the things that we help with. the minimum wage, health and safety on the job, protection, social security, an education for every kid out there, not where daddy and mommy's pocketbook will take them, and we are trying our darndest. >> this is to really reach out to citizens, to be equal partners in building a movement. there is a tendency to say -- surprisingly, people did not line up at the door to do that. i think it is really important. a really good example is from ohio. a lot is involved. there are a lot of community organizations involved. to train 150 citizen activists. they see what is going on in ohio, and they wanted to become a part of that. and people on the facebook page, and there are now over 130,000 people. health care america now, a wonderful organization. they have 18,000 people on their facebook page. a great campaign, spending millions of dollars, and face a page of 20,000, an elected official. it is hard to keep track of and hard to know. the democrats, the republicans, independents. they are union members and not. having a strong community. having good jobs. they want to be a part of it. they want to be connected. to recognize that we have to do it now. we are trying to do that. to stand up for ohio and facebook is something you can check out. >> speaking for federal sector labor unions, our union was one of three unions that recently commissioned some polling, as well, to sort of figure out how we responded to this-media and congressional action that is happening with federal employees, and the results are pretty interesting, because the bottom line is when it is all said and done, the public in our country things pretty highly of federal employees. and yet, when you ask the question "what do you think about the unions that represent these employees?" their approval ratings when announcing the delay, and i think part of it is due to basically this notion that somehow unions are disconnected from the employees that they represent, and that is nonsense. they are one in the same. the very word "union" implies that it is individual employees that come together to form an organization to represent and bargain, so we have got this disconnect, where we think this union is this nebulous thing out there, and people do not understand that that union is, at least in my case, made up of federal employees. so what we need to do, and i think the message we need to tell folks, and what we are doing is we are taking the tack of having our members tell their stories. what is in, for example, we represent veterans in administration doctors and nurses who are held and the highest esteem of any federal employees in the eyes of the public. those folks went right at the top in terms of a positive impression that the public has of them, so we're asking our members who are nurses and doctors to tell their story, you know, what it is they can do, the health care they provide veterans, how does that contribute to the nation and to the economy, how does that contribute to making the community's stronger, and talk about, and, again, during the reference from how much money that are paid. it is about the work that they do, the accomplishments that they have, and focus on making sure that those folks have the resources and the tools they need to continue to provide quality care for veterans, so it is about remessaging and getting out of the debate of whether the debate -- the deficit is $1.60 billion. the public really does not give a damn about numbers. they can care less about where you got your data, and we can have a debate about whether your data came from the heritage foundation or the department of statistics, and the average person out there does not give a damn, so it is not about data. it is about the work that people do and how that contributes to the greatest in this country and to the economy to get us out of the financial mess that we're in and putting the 30 million unemployed and underemployed americans who need to get back to work back to work in this country, and that will go a long ways to taking care of this problem that we have in united states today. every company promotes they're satisfied customers, accept us. our folks need to talk about -- folks need to know that we handle more than grievances. we are handling grievances for the same 1% of the membership. leaders need to step back and led to our members tell their stories. when we do a press conference, it does not need to be us out there all the time. it is to be folks telling their own story. in detroit, we have hard times getting the media out and the media told me, that is because we do not want to listen to you all the time. we want to listen to your members. what other kids about facebook. i need facebook to tell the union story. i've gotten -- they have said, i read that on facebook. i did not know that was happening. everybody needs to use that. >> ok. one more question. practice for questions. last question for the panel, let's look forward 25 years. what is one big change would like to see the labor union accomplished? >> a couple of things. i would like to see a larger percentage of younger workers in my union and i have today. i think that is an untapped resource in terms of membership and in terms of future leaders. one of the things that -- we have an obligation to our organization to do some successful planning and make sure we have folks in the pipeline that have the tools and skills, the training, the innovation, the willingness to step into those shoes when the current leadership retires or moves on. i have to be honest, i do not think we have done a good job there. i think that is something that -- it is because we have not put a lot of energy into recruiting and organizing younger workers. that is something that we started -- we changed our emphasis last year in our new organizing plan, our strategy. we're putting a lot of energy into reaching out to younger employees to figure out what it is that they need and what it is that we can offer them. to see some young faces in leadership, that would be one of the things i would like to say it -- see 20 years down the road. >> we have to be speaking for and representing workers, even -- even workers that are not in the formal relationship. we should be the voice for the unemployed, for example courage we should be the voice for the untrained, for example. we could become the entity that people think of when they think, i need to change careers, or do i look for help to do that. i need -- i need better health care insurance and we need to have those offerings for these allies that we are -- so we can sustain that relationship. >> this was about the future of the labor union. the fact that you ask that question, i need to say, definitely, we will be around in 25 years, no matter what they do. we will be around. it may make it more difficult for us, but we will be here. in 25 years, i would like to see as using every single tool that we have. i would like to see us using our contingency groups better. i would like to see unions reaching out to each other to help one another. even now, we have those who have relationships with elected officials that can help other unions, and i would like to see them come together and try to use that. i would like to see them using the central labor council and set up a triage kind of thing are everything is centered in there and unions come together under that banner to help each other. i guess that is self-serving, but i truly believe that they are the organizations that are there to pull everyone together. unions are so concerned about their unions, as they should be, but we are concerned about pulling them all together to be concerned about everybody. that is what i would like to see. >> let me jump off from that. we need to get better at doing is working together. the labor -- in this moment, the head of -- we need to sustain that and in 25 years, at that will get taken for granted. that will not be something people even ask about. we need to restore the right of workers across the country to organize. in mississippi, south carolina. we need to put private sector workers everywhere. some of that has to do with figuring out how to do it and not waiting for someone to change a lot. the law will follow. that is really the top priority of the labor movement, to figure out -- i hope we would have figured it out in 25 years. >> i believe in dreaming beg. what i would like to see in 25 years is a global middle-class. i would like for us to of rebuild the middle class in america. working within and across the world. and it is possible. it has happened in brazil. 20 million people taken at a poverty and move into middle- class because they are -- there are extremely strong union at movement. it is happening in china, and in mexico. i think it is possible. international solidarity, there is more work being done by unions together around the world to give workers the right to collective bargaining. >> the first thing -- i hope i am still around in 25 years. [laughter] i would like to have us have been a part of creating a manufacturing base that is the world's envy. so that everyone who wants to work at the time has a chance to work at a union job. that we have fully integrated are minorities, women, immigrants, and young people, that they are fully engaged in a labor union. they are fully engaged in society so they can reach their potential. that we have created an educational system and a skills- based educational system that produces the best workers and the world. -- in the world. >> your turn. questions? are we going to use this microphone? ok. identify yourself, please. >> my name is frank. i am probably the only person in here who has been both a union at stewart before a federal union and management lawyer. i'm currently teaching labor law here. i asked us to my class to be here. the hundred-pound elephant in the room is what happens -- employee pre choice act. you spend $44 million to get a lot -- obama elected trade he had supermajorities in both houses. my studies indicate that if it had gotten past, you would probably be at a 14% penetration instead of 7%. how did it happen that your investment was also pushed off into health care as opposed to getting what you -- it will totally turnaround a labor union? >> i have been engaged in this fight for a long time. there is no question that if the employee pre choice act had been passed, workers would have organized. they would have been able to do so without harassment, without intimidation, and without being fired. 25,000 or 30,000 workers get fired every year over exercising their rights to join a union. it creates fear. i go back to one thing -- there was -- there was united and fierce opposition from the republican party. the republican party filibustered over 400 built in the senate that the house of representatives passed. he needed 60 votes -- you needed 60 votes. we never had 60 votes in the senate because ted kennedy was sick. we never had 60 on the floor. had we had the 60, that would have been done immediately. that is not to excuse the lack of action and a lack of pushing for it because more should be done and we will continue to push that bill. do you know why? the vast majority of americans agree with that. a minority in the senate to can only support the majority will of the people for so long. you are seeing the support for collective bargaining right now growing. 70% right now the american public says people should have the right to collectively bargain. that is their right and they should have it. we will continue to push that and look for vehicles that will give us around a determined minority in the senate and the house -- a majority in the house to prevent that from happening bread what is happening in wisconsin and elsewhere is wha