[laughter] cardin let me follow up on that. One thing i did not say in the did nottion, which i and she would probably not voluntarily her own, she has spent a lot of time advocating on behalf of of people who were in trafficking. David mccleary heard her speech five or six years ago, they adopted Human Trafficking as their number one issue. That rotary club has raised money, tried to raise awareness. It is out of sight in out of mind. Susan, you have tremendous responsibility. Where politicians and we can talk about these things and sometimes they are heard and sometimes not. Casesou can tell those 21 about really what happens to these people and do a world of good to help raise visibility. Todd in newu have zealand, a striate, and other countries. Worked with her judiciaries and prosecutors . Susan coppedge i have worked locally, internationally. Statesent there with department money to talk to Law Enforcement about the difficulties investigating and prosecuting these cases. Enforcement everywhere is overwhelmed with people coming to them to reap port. Human trafficking for thems do not always come forward. There is a lot of work to uncover the crime. Then victims are often afraid or ashamed. So they are fearful of coming forward and working with Law Enforcement will stop when i was in those countries, i was talking to Law Enforcement about prosecuting those cases. I was stressing a vic themcentered approach. We never had a case where a victim was not willing to cooperate in the atlanta victims office. And if the victim does not want to prosecute, it is the vic them plus right it is the victim it is theight victims right to decide. Know there are some countries that do not comply with minimum standards. Senator we want to make sure we have the very best information possible in the tip report so that areo not mask any hiding Human Trafficking elements. We are very proud of you. Susan coppedge thank you. Senator congratulations on your nomination. That thederscore senator from georgia vouching for you is very meaningful. We had a good conversation. I want to follow up. Nott of all, i know you are there, but i hope you have an understanding why many members of this committee have a concern about the 201510 report as it cuba ando malaysia and other countries, where the narrative of why a country was upgraded from a tier 328 tier two is from a tier 3 to a tier 2 does not fit. You have an understanding of why members have a concern about the 2015 tip report, am i right . Susan coppedge yes. Thetor hopefully it is not reruns on cspan late at night. Let me ask you, knowing what the concerns are as it relates to plan toade, how do you appropriately, but nonetheless, bush back. Push back. I am looking for someone who is going to be a staunch advocate for the work the people from the tip office do. They do an incredible job. I think it is difficult when your work gets crushed from up above to still have the passion and the commitment. It has to be diminished somewhat. This office needs a leader who will not only lead in the work and to make sure the information is as full and as trents parent as transparent and as reflective of a given country as it can be, but it also needs a leader inside the depart. Competing interests. As much as i might disagree, i would be more respectful of the competing interest saying, look, we need, for example, malaysia in a Transpacific Partnership will stop i might disagree with that, but at least i respected. We need this country because we have a security object. This. Understand i cannot understand when were told card launched there are upgrades because they did the right thing. Blanche that we did the upgrades because they were the right thing. Advocate, how to strong of an advocate will you be . Understanding you will have superiors that may have a different view. I want to get a sense of that. Susan coppedge thank you. I will be a champion for the individuals in the tip office. I will be that champion yourround. Part of my job as a federal prosecutor is to take the facts, present them to a jury of 12 people, and convince them those facts are a violation of the law. Facts from the field. Presented to the state department to make decision. Convince them were the tierraking should be. If power does not like to hear it, i can be outranked but i will speak the truth. One thing is presenting faxed to a jury, did you ever, in your 15 years of experience at the attorneys office, they say set of circumstances i dont need the specifics face a set of circumstances in which something was taking place that you felt you had to use the out. Something that should have done prosecuted that a judge did not wasecuted or something that going to get prosecuted and you felt there is a judgment that should not be prosecuted or anything you had the face in those 15 years that was not the easy flow of saying, ok. Actually faced a moment in which you had to tell your superiors, i think this is the wrong judgment. Susan coppedge i have told my superiors that. I am a squeaky wheel. I argue for my position very forcefully. Luckily in the attorneys off than atlanta we have excellent leadership that recognizes no one case is worth tarnishing the reputation of justice in our community, so the office has been very supportive when i have spoken up and felt strongly about issues. Senator let me ask you, will you i heard your answer to senator corker but i want to understand, if this committee and members ask for information, will you be willingly disposed to give that information to members of this committee as we are making decisions . Susan coppedge i am committed to open dialogue all year, not just before the tip report comes out. Away fromm i to take your answers that underneath the southern genteel miss, there is an iron will to do what is right . Susan coppedge there is an irony will because of the individuals i have met in trafficking cases. You senators are their voice. I will remind you of that just as you have reminded me of my responsibilities. Senator with that understanding, i look forward to supporting your recommendation. Senator underneath that accent, there is a guy who really cares about people in that situation. Chairman, i am glad you are an interpreter for the committee. [laughter] senator we had a closed meeting for the benefit of the state department so we would not have the media there in other things. I have since that time ask for three specific pieces of information. I know people will be asking in the hallway. Happeningknow what is and set of three very sweeping things that came up during tony blanck ands testimony. I do hope they will provide that like, it now. Were asking them for to reply immediately. It should not take them in a time to get that to us. If not, i would like to talk about next steps to force that to happen. Unhappy withe very the testimony that occurred last week. With that, mr. Perdue. Mr. Purdue thank you. Thent to remind, for record, those of us here, this issue could have been swept under. We could have taken that tip report, put it on a shelf, and let it sit there. I want to thank the ranking member, sarah corker, for not letting that happen senator letting thatot happen. I think you have for distinguished senators sitting before you today. They have other things to do this morning, but they are here because of how important this nomination is. I applaud all of them for that. I am honored, mr. Chairman, that our nominee is from georgia. I have watched her for the last decade at texas with a vigor. At shouldur questions have been directed towards her husband to see if she really has the error and well. [laughter] i applaud the work you are doing. You are on a new level and a new stage now. I want to clear a couple things for the record. Business i have been very sensitive to this idea of taking advantage of the week in our societies around the world. Every culture is different. This is a major impediment to me for international trade. One of the things that make us a Peaceful World is the fact that we do not stand for people to take advantage of the week among us. And yet children, for the last 50 years, have definitely been the dems of power struggles around the world. Report, i am not asking you for your opinion about three or, but i do want to talk to you about children soldiers. Then an soldiers have issue. Issue been an issue. My question is, and as we look tierrd, the fact that three countries have children soldiers, is that a major issue for them being placed on tier three . Child soldiering is certainly an issue everyone is against. List thoseort does who have children as soldiers or workers in their army or armed forces. That is controlled by the children soldier prevention act. It is in the report when looking at the tear rankings. I am hoping we can do lots of things. That is on the list to eliminate, yes sir. Heardr you have discussed today, one of our concerns is the efficacy of the report. It should be the Gold Standard we should depend on how we deal think of them and here in congress. We have learned in the 2015 report that some countries just do not comply. For several years, germany has just not complied. There is no reason for us not to believe they are still a tier one operator, but the fact they are not cooperating gives me pause. India, still a solid tier two player in the report. Going to maintain the efficacy of this but to make sure it is not politicized but to make sure the participating countries cooperate. Susan coppedge whether the government provides data, that is the best source of data. If no information is forthcoming, the tip report and office has to assume they are not making efforts in that area. I know that is built into the review of the report will stop i also understand we get information from ngos as well, encouragedents are and requested to give information. Senator there is reported tension between u. S. Missions overseas and the bureau of state that go back to 2001. [inaudible] new how do you resolve this . This goes across all responsibilities. How will you weigh in to make sure that does not negatively affect our ability to evaluate these countries . Susan coppedge they are also a great source of information to the tip office about what is going on with respect to trafficking in that country. Traffickingt the message clearly out to the countries and regions and build those relationships up so we on equal footing. Obviously, there are competing priorities as senator cardin recognized. The tip office needs to have a loud voice at the table. I will strive to be that person. You for your answers, i look forward to supporting this nominee and her impact on this report going forward. Very much. K you i do not think there are other questions. I think people had time to meet with you personally, i appreciate your willingness. Throughs remain open the close of business wednesday. In answering those questions probably will help. Thank you and your family for your willingness to do this. With that, the meeting is adjourned. Susan coppedge thank you. [gavel] on this weekends at newsmakers, we discuss John Boehners decision to resign at the end of october. Bill florez talks about efforts to keep the government funded through a temporary funding measure to avoid a shutdown. Watch at 10 00 a. M. And six clock p. M. On cspan. President harry truman referred to his wife, best, as the boss. She had little to say to the media, especially after some unforgettable public moments. And, she spent a good part of her white house years home in missouri. Best truman, this sunday night at 8 00 p. M. Eastern. Ladies from Martha Washington to michelle obama. Sunday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern. Next, a look at the regulatory rulemaking and documents meant to clarify existing rules and regulations. From theuded officials education and Labor Department. The hearing is to ours. Two hours. [gavel] lets get started. Good morning everyone. Agenciesmining federal use of guidance in the regulatory process. Guidance is one of the most to ways and communicate and receive some of the littlest oversight. It is good to take a step back and look at the process. Many of these requirements can be found in the administrative procedures act. It is a notice of proposed rulemaking. It receives public, before promulgating rules. Back,e agency to gain the it is likewise critical to the American People to make sure rulemaking is transparent. In order for the government to work for the people, people must have a voice. Complexity of Administrative Law and needs to get affect the information out. In general statements of policy, terms are often grouped together under the umbrella of guidance. Guidance is a help hold tool when agencies wish to define a point of ambiguity. Agency guidance is useful by exempting it. To publishncy issues of the instead benefit is it bypasses comments and it comes with a catch. It may not impose legal party itns on the regulates. It is not legally binding, but merely rearticulates requirements and obligations. , even be very difficult for experts, to discern when a document can rightly be called a guidance and when it should go through the rigor of apa comments and rolemaking. Legal scholars and courts grapple with these determinations. I believe agencies may issue guidance documents with the best of intentions to clear communication. I also understand the frustration of regulated entities which much sift through huge stacks of died minutes of guidance with widely varying names to make sure they are in compliance. For example, the department of labor has issued guidance under various titles. Brochures, policy directives, bulletins, questions and answers, circulars to name a few. Likewise, the department of education issues your colleague letters, memorandums, frequently asked questions, programming menus and manuals. I hope the discussion we have today will be in Service Going forward. Theeven ifcern substance of policy at articulates a sensible. In the past, for example, independent organizations and congressional committees have expressed concerns with particular department of education guidance. The Department Office of civil rights issue guidance dubbed as open quote Dear Colleague letters. Prohibited certain conduct in the way disciplinary measures. Especially troubling is the department of education is rarely challenged on its guidance. Ols frequently because of this, the department may continue to him properly issue guidance. More recently, the Labor Department i keep patient all and Safety Administration issued guidance on on safety standards. The memoranda in june and july of this year. Many previously unrelated parties to new, burdensome requirements and compounded their compliance cost. To maintain the integrity of the department of labor process, i hope the department of labor seriously considers the way it did this. Its bowls of Good Government requires the memoranda the subject to the procedures mandated by the apa. Im grateful for the officers work and look forward to her testimony. Our officialsoday from the department of labor and education. Department of labor and education asking their department to determine when to issue guidance in lieu of rolemaking. In response they provided some helpful agency insight. I look forward to expanding those insights today. Is ais something that serious issue. It is not just these two agencies. This is a bigger issue. Even in the letter that we promulgated and other questions we have. This happens to be two agencies there are a lot of questions and and a lot of guidance documents come out of. As i mentioned before, some of these guidances are good policy. It is the process we talking about to make sure people are actually included and asked the question, where do we go from here. Opening statement. Thank you for calling this hearing. Guidance documents may not seem riveting, but we are like the rules nerds. We get very excited about all these topics. But obviously, this is one of incredible importance that affects so many of our businesses and schools. Pretty much the entire Regulatory Community will stop regulations under in almost everything. Regulations keep our products and food safe. They work to prevent fraud. Sometimes, the Language Agency uses creates conflicting standards. By whichis the means businesses can get clarity and answers. It gives them certainty. It removes ambiguity. It is the conduit for informational exchanges and a tool to streamline processes. It allows businesses to better understand their relationship with the regulator. It is not, nor should it need, substantive rolemaking. Than not it comes at the request of the regulated parties. Therewe do must not more to do than simply guidance cannot change laws, but it has the power to influence markets. Is incredibly important that we ensure regulated entities are given the opportunity to share data and submit comments. In order for this to be truly exceptional, we must make sure there are seats for all interested parties. Is a difference between having a seat at the table and getting ones own way. Many times hands are handcuffed. Many times, there is not the ability to regulate. In these instances, it is up to congress to be vigilant. It is up to everyone on this dais to make sure we listen. Make sure wes to worked together to tweak and demand legislation when necessary. It is up to estimate sure good intentions do not overly burden our economy. Hearing,ation for this it seems there is much we can do as a chamber to ensure it is of the highest quality. Sure important to make there is consistency across agencies and as the chairman noted, that we are not looking at just two agencies. That is the role of this committee, to look more at a systemic view. Us. Ver, this can help Small Businesses do not always have the staff or time to sift through pages. They do not have the staff or the time to sift through pages of similar fact sheets. Memorandums, spread across multiple websites and multiple pages. Make sure work to guidance is acceptable to the public will stop we need to make one does not need to have intimate knowledge of the regulatory state to know what is and what is not a guidance document. Is and to ensure it inclusive system where there is a real voice. This will ensure positive outcomes moving forward. Hearing fromd to our witnesses and having a fairly lively debate on what we could all learn from these examples and move forward to amend the system. Time, we will move to a testimony from witnesses. It is a tradition we have two rounds. The first round will be a five minute. After your oral testimony. The second round will be open. Will be turned on and we will have opened ilog so any member can jump in and be able to follow up. The first round will be very structured. I hope that makes sense. Let me introduce our witnesses. Issues or of u. S. Manages a range of budget issues spanning multiple o agencies. Positions, she held at John Hopkins Institute for policy studies and George Mason School of public policy. Deputymaxwell chief of staff, Senior Advisor to the secretary of labor. Amy mcintosh is the Deputy Assistant secretary of delegated duties. Planningt of education and policy development. Your card must have two sides to use both the front and the back , stop in this policy at the office of planning and policy development. Before that, various positions at new york state. Thank you very much. Please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear the testimony youre about to give is the truth, and nothing but the truth . This will be no more than five minutes. He forward begin, i would like to request unanimous consent. Directly to ate maze seven letter that we sent to the department of education and led labor. Taking daines is also leadership roles in this issue and we welcome him here today. Ms. Sanger, you are up first. Thank you. Thank you for the invitation to appear before you today. Remarks today will explain this aspect of communication and highlight answers to questions that were highlighted in our 20 15 report. Wheno agencies determine to undertake rulemaking or issue died ins and forth, how can agencies create more applicable criteria . What, in terms of regulatory guidances. It is an important communication tool that agencies used to communicate about the implementation of regulatory and grant programs. To regulatory parties and grantees and the general public. Is to the general purpose explain and help comply with agency regulation. Regulatory guidance cant take a variety of formats and names. , interpretive memos, frequently asked questions, and fact sheets. It helps agencies move more quickly been possible using rolemaking. Even though guidance is not legally binding, it can have a significant effect. Rely on large volumes of guidance and they prompt changes in behavior. How agenciesrms of use regulatory guidance, in our report, because it is on for agriculture, education, health and human services, and labor, we use guidance for a number of purposes including to explain and interpret regulations, and answer questions from regulated agencies and disseminate practices and priorities. Departments typically identify a few documents as significant. Defined by the office of budget and management of broad and substantial impact on regulated agencies. Whether tof undertake guidance or issue rolemaking, key among factors is whether or not they are intended for the guidance document to be legally binding. Officials said they generally understood when guidance was inappropriate and when it was more appropriate to undertake rolemaking. In terms of how agencies can make sure their guidance adheres to criteria, we found agencies did adhere to specific practices. We found they could strengthen internal control processes to ensure guidance processes achieve desired results and prevent errors. Specificsence of the application of internal control is particularly important. Componentscy included in the review address some control standards more regularly than others. For example, very few components have written procedures that guide. However, all components could describe some kind of review process they followed for guidance. Agenciesended that guidancetly adhere to and strengthen their internal controls for guidance processes. The agencies generally a greed and reported they were taking action to comply with recommendations. In summary, agencies must exercise diligence in issuing guidance. Although not legally finding, guidance documents can guide stakeholders and involved andies choices interpretations of forthcoming regulations. The potential effects of these documents and the risks of legal challenges to agencies underscore the need for consistent and wellunderstood processes for the development, review, development, and assignation. Mr. Maxwell. Good morning. Members of the subcommittee. Senators. Tonk you for the opportunity testify. The Department Takes this seriously, including by issuing regulations that give employers, workers, and work for systems the information they need to comply with the law and achieve safety and security in the workplace. Regularly seek additional guidance. Issueiding when to guidance, we consider the letters and phone calls we receive from the public, Advisory Committee reports, listening sessions with stakeholders, regular requests for information and more. The departments guidance can serve any number of different purposes. Clarifying regulations. Providing assistance on grant administration. Responding to specific questions, and directing. We strive to issue guidance that is clear in and acceptable to members of the public who may not all be experts in two should not have to hire a lawyer to understand. For example, there was a handbook that lays out the most common types of requests for leave for the family and medical leave act. This helps us respond to stakeholder questions and challenges. For example, the occupational safe and Health Information coordinated last years ebola outbreak. Numerous documents were released of course, there are situations where we more formally seek guidance on a document because of its significance. With the recent that found theit agency consistently applied wasxample these past spring in applying obamas fair pay and safe workplace executive order, the proposed guidance was alongside the proposed fair pay regulation with concurrent comments providing 90 days to weighin on the full implementation picture. As gao noted in its multiagency to make this available from the home page of each agency. While we focus on agencyspecific guidance, we know many visitors to our website do not know where to go. Accordingly, a departmentwide called eprogram is laws. An interactive website that enables the public, including employers and employees to find information. It is a unique, webbased tool to find information about employment laws. Getcan ask a question and an answer. You can email and file forms online. They receive over 44,000 visits a day. This is a remarkable number of. Workers are finding the site and finding it useful. We are always finding ways to improve. Reviewing and updating our procedures for how we review and approve. The department is also identifying ways to improve our website. The Department Remains committed to our broad efforts to develop and disseminate accurate, timely, and safe guidelines that inform all the stakeholders under the numerous laws we enforce. Member,rman, ranking senators, thank you for the opportunity to testify. I am happy to answer your questions. Lankford, ranking member, senators. My name is amy mcintosh and i am proud to represent the department of education today. I appreciate the opportunity to be here to testify about our issuance of guidance. Evidence is in important to the department uses to communicate timely and consistent information to the diverse groups we serve. Students, parents, teachers, states, schools and schools districts. Institutes of higher education, advocates, and the general public. In partilar, we use guidance to assist our partners and stakeholders in understanding and complying with the laws of congress and with related regulatory requirements. The department uses guidance to promote transparency and to assist and guide stakeholders, not to create new rules. Rolemaking process, not guidance, when we need to issue legally binding rules to carry out the department mission. We find it helpful to issue guidance for various reasons, including explaining new regulations in plain language, responding to questions from external stakeholders, clarifying policies in response to compliance findings, and identifying best actresses relating to the topics in the guidance. Committed tot is issuing guidance that is welldeveloped and responsive to grantee and stakeholder needs, reflects a appropriate review, and is properly disseminated to reach the relevant audiences. Establishedletin as policies and procedures for the development, and issuance, and use of significant documents and report justhe gao referenced had written procedures for approval as directed by the owner and the bulletin. And it consistently applied only to be bulletins for feedback on guidance. Evidence that does not meet the litton of significant guidance is left to procedural discretion. The scope of guidance berries, procedures may vary slightly among the different departments offices within the department. But we encourage all offices that want to issue guidance to consider input from the intended audience, to go through several levels of internal review for clarity, consistency, and effectiveness, and where appropriate, the office of general counsel will be part of that process to ensure legal sufficiency. They may also informally and gauge with external stakeholders to seek their views a end expertise. The department believes that to our internal controls for developing and producing controls for guidance or affect the of, but we are committed to continuous improvement. We appreciate the guidance in the gao report and we are taking its recommendations into consideration. Process ofhe reviewing procedures in our offices for the development and guidance, of a old significant or otherwise, and we will use our finding to provide offices with standard protocols developy can use to guidance. The department will also review guidance on the website and to identify best practices to improve the online presentation and accessibility of guidance documents. The department is committed to ensuring guidance is used in a way that will best informed the public. We believe we have done a good job with the bulletin and or committed to working towards the recommendations made by gao. Chairman, ranking member, senators, for the opportunity to be here. Im glad to answer any questions from the committee. Thank you from the committee. Withll go a rapid pace questions. I want to reemphasize that a lot of