The Second World War and later on in his career as a secret service agent. He was responsible for transferring some of americas most priceless documents, declaration of independence, constitution, gettysburg address to fort knox in the aftermath of pearl harbor. So this date was to summer 26, 1941, the day after americas pearl harbor crisis. Mr. Lamb how did he get involved and why did they go to fort knox . Mr. Puleo the secret service gets involved when the library of Congress Needs help. He is kind of responsible for these documents and he wants the Top Law Enforcement Agency in the country at the time, the secret service to help him. Fort knox was chosen because it was americas most impenetrable location. It was the gold union depository, had been open several years prior with a lot of gold already transferred. And a so the secretary of the treasury gave permission to use a portion of the depository for these documents. Mr. Lamb which documents . Mr. Puleo the declaration of independence, constitution, gettysburg address, articles of confederation, the gutenberg bible, lincolns second inaugural address and a copy of the magna carta, which the United States was holding onto for safekeeping for britain. The british had sent to to United States for the 1939 worlds fair and when war broke out in europe, asked us to hold onto it for protection. Mr. Lamb he came over to union station, how did it get to fort knox . Mr. Puleo it got there on the baltimoreohio National Limited train overnight which goes out to louisville. There it is met by other agents, secret Service Agents and a military, group of military vehicles and they transfer to fort knox. Mr. Lamb what was the thinking of it needing to go there . Mr. Puleo tremendous concern, brian, in washington at the time of a bombing attack or sabotage on the nations capital. It was a harrowing time. There were guards everywhere, gun placements on the roof, the white House Windows painted lack, even some talk about painting the white house black. The oval office is fitted with bulletproof glass. Fdr and his staff are given gas masks. He keeps his on the arm of his wheelchair because of the potential of attack. There was great concerned by the president by president roosevelt and others that the destruction of the original declaration, the original constitution would have disastrous impact on the country as a whole. Mr. Lamb the are going to show some video after she was the librarian of Congress Just so we can see what he looks like and what he sounded like. This has always been the policy of the american people, and peace is now the necessity of the american people. If there is another war, there is another aggressor, the United States will be the first target of that aggressors actions. Mr. Lamb he was in the state department at that time. What were his politics, how close was you to fdr and who got interested in saving these documents first . Mr. Puleo he was a very staunch, antifascists. He was really concerned that some of his intellectual returns come other librarians, a man of the arts, he was concerned those folks did not take the nazi threat seriously. This is a man who wept when they marched into paris. He believed it was the duty of all librarians to take an active role in protecting documents, speaking out in writing against the fascist threat and he did that. It is one of the reasons fdr kept him in 1939. They are running rough shop in europe, are going to run roughshod in europe, or making threats, so one of the reasons he taps and is because of his position, antinazi, antifascist position. Fdr initially has the idea about the documents. He is quite concerned. He feels himself a real steward of these documents, very important. And he brings him on board come he shares his concerned with him, which he shares as well. By 1940 they are aware that the british have lost many, many documents during the blitz, the bombings of london, and the ermans have destroyed many documents, a lot of books potentially, particularly by jewish authors and others. There is a real concern that these would be a target. Mr. Lamb what about all of the other documents number in the library of congress or the National Archives . , what happened to them at this point . Mr. Puleo this movement of the declaration of independence, begins the safekeeping of documents in American History. Other boxes are moved from the library of congress to university repositories that are somewhat inland. The university of virginia, charlottesville they are moved there after the library of Congress Staff people examine around 60 locations in the area that would be somewhat inland, somewhat protective of potential bomb attacks and had all of the requisite means to protect documents. Humidity issues had to be dealt with, the leakage, water issues have to be dealt with. Or they are taken from mites and vermins . That begins the process where they are moved totally in secret. Mr. Lamb how are they moved . Mr. Puleo they are moved by truck, tractortrailer, if you will. The boxes were first unpacked in the library of congress, stored in the basement and moved at night, late at night to these different repositories as i said around genia and ohio. Mr. Lamb how many people were involved getting these boxes ready . Mr. Puleo it was quite a task, and amazing cast. 700 library of Congress Staffers devoted about 10,000 hours of their time assessing, collecting, packing these documents and getting them ready. He was very adamant that he want to documents that were utterly irreplaceable to be part of this effort, and so he asks them to break them into six tiers. Moving down into important documents, maybe not essential for the preservation of the american republic. It was a very well thought out and it starts in late 1940. A year before pearl harbor. Mr. Lamb you mean like, 1940 . R. Puleo a full year before pearl harbor. Mr. Lamb what were the requirements . R. Puleo they were put into the gold depository. The secretary of the treasury said you can have about 60 cubic feet which is about the size of a freezer, and so that is how much room we had because of the time there was a lot of gold and fort knox. It was at its peak at about that time, 1941, 1942, so he has to make a decision, what documents are going to be there . The original engrossed declaration, definitely. The original constitution, definitely. The articles of confederation, preconstitution, for sure. The gettysburg address, consider critical goes. He makes this decision very methodically come i think on what is going to go to fort knox. These are considered the most valuable documents in the country. The magna carta is the document that he has been asked to preserve for the brits. He thought jefferson would approve that the magna carter would be in that same area in fort knox. Mr. Lamb talk about lincolns gettysburg address. There have been five copies, including one at the lincoln bedroom, one in cornell, two in the library of congress and another one in a lincoln museum. What is considered the gettysburg address . Mr. Puleo the library of congress has the two original copies. The one that was considered used right on the battlefield, a battlefield copy and one that he copies over and gives to his two aides. The other copies are copies that lincoln did in his own and with close political advisers, friends and those of the ones you are referring to. The library of congress has the nickel copies. Mr. Lamb collected the public know about the movement of these documents at the time . Mr. Puleo virtually nothing. They removed in secrecy. There were folks on the receiving end at the university who knew they were getting boxes from the library of congress. They were not sure what was in them but they maintained the secret. One of the things he marvels about in his report after is that everybody cap this a secret. Truck drivers, packers, folks, library staffers, those who unloaded the trucks. You name it, it was not leak as part of this. Mr. Lamb we did they return to washington . Mr. Puleo september of 1944, so three months or so after dday, use that as your point in history, this little concerned that the germans were going to attack the main lands because they were on the run, basically as the allies moved across europe and the documents were brought back. There is one exception prior to that. The original declaration of independence is brought back on april 13, 1943 for one week during the dedication of the jefferson memorial. Fdr thinks it would be really good for National Morale to have the original declaration on display, so it is in thousands of people view it, under marine guard for 24 hours. It is put back into fort knox, nobody knows where it came from or where it was going back to. Mr. Lamb of the people in your book, governor morris, what role does she play that you mentioned him on several occasions . Mr. Puleo governor morris of pennsylvania, the man with the strange first name. Some people think he was governor morris of pennsylvania, but that is really his first name. He writes the famous and eloquent preamble to the United States constitution, we the people of the United States, which at the time was not a term that was used. Morris i think explains the whole purpose of the constitution and explains how the preamble is really the author of that preamble from beginning to end and one other thing i think he does during discussion of the presidency is he makes it very clear that the chief executive, this is during the Constitutional Convention in 1787, the chief executive would not be viewed as a king in this new government, more like the prime minister. The people are the king, he says. This whole notion of the people instilling the power upon government and not the other way around, he is one of the people that continues that to the constitution, the principle first articulated in the declaration of independence mr. Lamb a memory as he is 35 years old or Something Like that . Mr. Puleo he is their young. Mr. Lamb where was he from . Mr. Puleo from pennsylvania, a real patriot, a delegate and had other elected official positions in pennsylvania. He was considered an intellectual and a reputation as having a great sense of humor, the reputation of being a little bit of a philanderer. When the rubber met the road at the Constitutional Convention, i think is intellectual face show through. Mr. Lamb two is Timothy Matlock . Mr. Puleo he was the aggressor of the declaration of independence. We mean written in the calligraphy style with the forces, curlicues, underlines. He was a friend of jeffersons, a patriot, and the Constitutional Convention, Constitutional Congress i am sorry, the Continental Congress wanted to declaration engrossed for all time and assigned afterwards. Matlock is the in grocer, taking a couple weeks to do it. So the document now at the National Archives, the document that americans may see hanging in the School Buildings or government offices or may even have their own homes, that is the engrossed copy of the declaration and it is signed on august 2, 1776 by most of the delegates. Mr. Lamb how many copies are recognized as a firstgeneration copies that are around . Mr. Puleo the engrossed copy of the declaration of independence is at the National Archives, the original. There is one copy. You may be referring to the dunlap broadsides which are be printed copies printed on the night of july 4, 1776 in hot type in john dunlaps printing shop, signed only by john hancock and his secretary at the time, charles thompson. That is it. There are 17 of those that exist today, but the engrossed copy with all of the signatures of the delegates, there is one. Of course it has been reproduced many times. In 1823 is when the exact facsimile of the document was produced and from that it has been reproduced millions of time. The original in the rotunda is one. Mr. Lamb is there a story of how it got to a facsimile . Mr. Puleo yes, john quincy adams, secretary of state at the time in 1820 asks engraver William Stone and washington dc to produce an exact replica, there have been people that had produced certain replicas of the declaration, a lot of discussion about whether it was exact, who have the official replica version, etc. Etc. John quincy adams asked stone, produce something that is exact and he does. It takes him about three years to painstakingly do it. But the document you see now, the one that you may have hanging in your home or in a School Classroom is incredibly exact and right down to the signatures, which is pretty amazing. Mr. Lamb do you have an idea a dunlop broadside would be valued at today . Mr. Puleo i do not. I know there have been assessments done by the library of congress of the range and the hundreds of thousands but i do not know the exact number. Mr. Lamb do you know where the 17 r or some of them . Mr. Puleo the library of congress has one, the Historical Society of massachusetts has one. Mr. Lamb who was Stephen Pleasanton . Mr. Puleo he was a real hero in American History. They stormed the capital, the president s house, public burnings in washington and the state department and he at that point in time things just before they get there, it is a good idea to save some of the documents and to save the original declaration and the original constitution. He does so. He stuffed them into a linen sack and drives them by wagon, 35 miles away and put some into an abandoned house. He does it against the secretary of war at the time who does not think it is necessary. He thinks they are not coming to washington dc, that baltimore is the target and he is correct. The secretary of war underestimates the potential value of the destruction of these documents. He makes the save and is again one of the people that have been stewards of these documents throughout history. Mr. Lamb where did this book come from . Mr. Puleo this book comes, i read a small Magazine Article several years ago about the fact that these documents, the big three as i call them were moved to fort knox during the Second World War. I had never heard of this. I was shocked to consider myself somewhat of the next were on the Second World War and had no idea this was even happening. I said, i need to take a look at this. I need to research this. That was the beginning of this kind of genesis of the idea, and as i went through the library of congress documents and the primary sources on this move, on this massive move, i then said, wow, what is the why here . Why did we go through so much trouble . What makes these documents so important . I realize i had to go back and look at the creation of these documents, the preservation of these documents, the rescue of these documents and the ideas contained in these documents, so that is why the book reads and brings a narrative going back and forth between world war ii in 1776 or 1787 or 1814. That is why the book is written that way. Mr. Lamb there is one line you wrote on page 236 and given what people are saying today, i found it interesting. Americas lack of interest in his history had trouble the aging founders. That is from way back there where they were troubled. Today we have a lot of people that think a lot of people do not care about history. Wasnt that bad back then . Mr. Puleo i think there was a bit of amnesia. This was basically prior to the war of 1812. The worth 1812 kind of rekindles this patriotic fervor, if you will or spirit in the founders and that really comes to play in july 4, 1826. Americas golden jubilee, the 50th anniversary of the declaration of independence, when americans really celebrate that day and that there is this kind of rekindling of patriotic fervor and on that day, july 4, 1826, two of americas greatest founders, Thomas Jefferson and john adams had both died. I think that raises the fourth of july and increases this patriotic fervor to a whole new level. Yes, there was a lot of concern at the time prior to that. Mr. Lamb how did you go about it . Mr. Puleo doing the research . Is that what you mean . The documents in the library of congress on this topic are there. The papers are there, lots in the papers and a lot in the move of documents, and in the National Archives there is a substantial amount of documentation on this because eventually in 1952 these documents are moved to the National Archives, the declaration and the constitution. A lot of primary source material there as well so that kind of kicks the thing off. A tremendous amount of primary sources on these different times of 1776, 1787. Ironically, the James Madisons notes of the Constitutional Convention in 1787, those are saved in 1814 by madison who literally rescues them at the last minute from the white house, and i thought as i was going to prove madisons papers while i would not have madisons papers thanks to Dolly Madison. The documents on move our primary source documents, physical touching of the documents, many of the other documents from these different periods are used online, digitize. John adams papers are digitized so it is a wonderful treasure trove of documents. Madisons papers are digitized. A lot of that of Additional Research from then you can do really in a digital way which is a fascinating way to do research. Mr. Lamb here is some video of the transfer you just mentioned on december 13, 1952. As w