Announcer this week on q a, defense news Naval Warfare correspondent chris cavas talks about the navys fat leonard bribing scandal, with more than two dozen Navy Officials including several admirals. Brian chris cavas, let me start by asking you what you do for a living. Chris i am a journalist. I cover naval affairs, things that are on, over, and above the water. I like to cover them worldwide. I like to talk about the industry that builds these things, the people who operate them, who buy them, the people who determine requirements. The operations they do and why does anybody need all this stuff and does any have it really work . I write about things like that. Brian who reads it . Chris the industry, the hill, politicians. Defense news is a worldwide publication. We are sometimes remarkably wellknown. People in the naval industry around the world Pay Attention to us. Senior officers Pay Attention to us, senior acquisition officers. How big the publication and who owns it . Chris i cannot even tell you because i am not up on the latest stats. We are owned by a Company Called site line media, that includes army times, navy times, air force times, about people in the service. It is not about them really, but it is about things that affect their lives. We have a division called history and that the talks about things that are old. Brian i want to show you some video from a Company Called Glenn Marine Group asia. It is just a minute, a promo from them, and ask you to explain how they fit in right now. [begin video clip] narrator headquartered in singapore, the Glenn Marine Group is a premier integrated Maritime Service provider. It has its own proprietary blend of assets. Its scale of operations spans 54 million square miles, represented by a Global Network of nine regional offices that have operated in more than 32 countries. Narrator the Glenn Marine Groups Flagship Company is asiapacifics leading brands in naval fleet support. Its services extend well beyond pierside. As an integrated, Onestop Center for all of the navy needs, glenn defense asia is able to provide a wide range of customized solutions. [end video clip] brian why does this company matter, a singaporebased company, matter to the United States navy . Chris when ships travel from port to port, a ship is a selfcontained entity. It takes care of itself. When it goes into port it needs a number of support services. It starts with, i need a pilot to meet me at a certain location at a certain time. I probably need tugs to escort me, a place to drop the hook, or tie up. I need someone to be there so i can get on and off my ship. I need to have somebody arrange to get shore power if i need it, food and water if i want it. Even then i may want somebody to have some taxis and phones available, and i want a reception and i need some catering services. So, there are companies called husbanding agents. Husbanding, like husband and wife. It is a very old term. It is nothing new, a classic maritime term. So worldwide, ports have husbanding companies, have husbanding agents, and we need those services so we are a global navy. The United States navy travels all over the world. Everywhere we go we need someone to take care of the services so we need to bid out on the services. And get somebody to do that for us. It is key to being able to operate in a certain area, to do rest and relaxation in a certain area. Without it, you cannot do it. Brian let me ask you in a different way. What has that company done to the navy . Chris for one thing, it has completely embarrassed the United States navy, shocked the culture of the navy that people were corrupted to provide glenn Defense Marine mostly with information about ship movements, but other things as well, in exchange for not that much money but fairly lavish lifestyles. So they threw fabulous parties, had great dinners, provided prostitutes for a lot of people, really expensive gifts for their wives, paid for family vacations. We are talking on the order of 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 for a weekend, some of their parties. I mean, dinner could cost 20,000 to 30,000 for six people. Brian let me read you a summary of what has happened until now. This is what is known, investigators have said that more than 200 people have come under scrutiny. Among them are eight newly indicted Navy Officials including an admiral, 13 people who have pleaded guilty, six others who have been charged, four admirals who have been disciplined, two others known to be under investigation, and 150 others not identified. Chris glenn Defense Marine was one of the most sophisticated operations like this in the western pacific. They had operations throughout the western pacific. Anybody in the western pacific at any time who made a port call, which was everybody, had some contact with something that was glenn Defense Marine whether they knew it or not. So there are many levels of people who are involved with this. Some people had virtually no involvement other than they were there. Some were more deeply involved. There was certainly criminal behavior, people who broke their oaths. Who broke the confidence that was around them. They were passing information and had inappropriate relations. On any number of levels. The people who did this are by and large, remarkably capable people. They are professionally respected. A lot of these people were widely known for their professional accomplishments, not because of before they were arrested. Some of these people have a lot had a lot of respect from a lot of people. They were not dumb people. But they clearly were doing some dumb things and what is interesting, they did not make that much money for it. This was not like, people were not making a few hundred thousand dollars here. Nobody made a million dollars. They were selling their careers for fairly short. That surprises people. People are surprised that so many people could be compromised like this. But glenn Defense Marine wanted information. So they wanted to know where ships were going to be. They could prepare for it. They had certain ports where they have a lot of power. We own a lot of the concessions in this port, we do not own a lot of concessions in that port. We hear you are going to that port. Can you do to can to see the two dont go there and come here. They would approach key officers, for the most part, like on the planning staff. The seventh fleet is the u. S. Fleet in the western pacific based in japan. They would approach Operations Officers and planning officers, protocol officers worried about where are we going to go. For example, the navy pays a great deal of attention to r r. We have lots of ships that go to the middle east. You might be surprised to know that four to five months in the persian gulf is not a party time. Particularly if we have ships full of young 20yearolds who want to have a good time, and they really do work hard. Theres not a lot of opportunity to blow off steam in the mideast. There is some, it is not barren. But it is not like some other parts of the world so when ships are in transit, coming and going to the United States and passing through the pacific, that might be the best part, the best opportunity that the navy has to give the crew of that Aircraft Carrier a welldeserved break. Let me put on the screen a fellow who calls himself i do not know why he calls himself this a fellow called fat leonard. Who is he and how does he impact this . Chris he was a largerthanlife guy. For allow you was larger to most people. He was close to 400 pounds at one point. He has lost a lot of weight. He was a big, fat guy. He was fat leonard. Extremely gregarious and outgoing. He is the classic host. We are here to have a good time, great to see you, i have arranged all of this. Come into this room, see what we have for you. He would ingratiate himself with everybody. He was a classic manipulator. He would go out of his way to be seen with anybody of any importance. He would have photographers there to take pictures with any significant person at any social event. Here is fat leonard, great to see you, admiral. And oh, heres the photographer, lets smile. Everybody has had their pictures taken. Brian we have an example of former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff mike molen with fat leonard. Did he know who he was . Chris everybody knew that he was fat leonard and he ran glenn defense marina. Did they know this corruption was going on and so much was happening in the background . It does not appear that was the case at all. For every one of these pictures, frankly as a newspaper, i am reluctant sometimes to run these pictures because there is there are hundreds of. One of the first pictures that came out was one with the cno just after mike molen, gary roughhand. Everybody is had these pictures taken. Everybody was there. It is a gladhanding thing. They did not necessarily have to be doing anything. Brian where is fat leonard today . Chris in jail in san diego, california. He was arrested in 2013, lured to the United States. It was a the investigation going on right now is spearheaded by the department of justice started off as a ncis investigation. Leonard, i think he is a resident of singapore. He wasnt born there, but brian hes malaysian. Chris malaysian. He was lured to the United States to close a business deal so they got him in the u. S. With u. S. Jurisdiction and he was arrested. He has pled guilty. He has not been sentenced. He pled guilty in 2015. Hes not been sentenced, he is not the only one who has not been sentenced who has pled guilty, so the prosecution is over but they have not adjudicated. The supposition there and this is just a supposition because justice will not confirm this is that he is still providing information to the investigation, and they are waiting to see how far that goes. Brian how many former Navy Officials are in prison . Chris in prison, i am not sure right now. There have been 25 charged total. Almost half of them are now in prison one way or another. Theyve been sentenced. Brian let me go back to 2015, march 2015 just to put an official touch on this. This is the former secretary of the navy who used to be the governor of mississippi talking at a hearing on capitol hill. [begin video clip] the reason this was uncovered is that we set up financial tripwires that glenn Defense Marine asia, gdma, went across. So red flags were raised. Ncis investigated this for three years with no leaks. During that investigation we found an ncis agent was furnishing mr. Francis with information, that they set up false information to him. And it led to mr. Francis believing that the investigation had been shut down. It allowed us to arrest him on american soil. [end video clip] brian how well did he handle this . Chris i am not sure. Ray mavis is the kind of person people criticize heavily or they do not criticize heavily. There is not much of a middle ground. Frankly, i am not sure what else he could have done and i think this was done pretty well. This investigation began in 2010. The agent that was being referred to was something that leonard was always, part of his modus operandi of getting moles in different places was letting them know, warn of probing in operations. They gave him permission to work it out. False information to work it out. When the arrests were made, the navy moved with some alacrity to suspend operations with glenn Defense Marine. The secretary of war instigated an audit of all of their practices, all of their contracting practices, and an audit not just to look for inappropriate money going to glenn Defense Marine but also weaknesses in contracting that would allow these excesses and abuses to work their way in. It was an organizational approach to it, it was not just an effort to grab people on this particular gdma issue. There was another husbanding company which also was sued by the navy around this time period for what the navy viewed as excesses. Not nearly on the scale that gdma was at. The navy set it up brian consolidated Disposition Authority, what in the world is that . Chris the idea is that justice runs its own investigation, and justice is looking for criminal activity. Justice is not about ethics, it is about criminal behavior. If they have people, they investigated somebody, if they find no criminal behavior and nothing they can charge anybody with, they are done with that person. They then turn that investigation over to the navy run consolidated Disposition Authority, consolidated in the sense that there are different entities within the navy that could be investigating this. Why have all of these different units . We will do it one effort consolidated. So the navy runs its own investigation on these people looking for ethics violations. Youre right, you did not break the letter of the law but certainly broke the standards of behavior that you were sworn to and that we expect people to adhere to. That has turned into its own, that has taken on a life of its own. That has had a major effect on the navy, particularly the officer corps. It continues to have a major effect and has no end in sight. People cannot find out what they are investigated for. You cannot confront your accuser. It has become a pernicious investigation affecting hundreds of people and there is no way to quantify it. I personally know a surprising number of people who appear to be under investigation. Are you still under investigation by justice or has justice turned that over to the cda . Its hard to tell. Brian let me put a face to this. It might be a little tedious for people watching, but it puts a depth to understand to this. Here is a rear admiral, status, pleaded guilty june 2016 to making a false official statement. Criminal sentence pending, reduced in rank to captain and retired from active duty. He was an admiral. How bad is this . Chris from the criminal investigation, there have been admirals caught up in this but they are not charged with behavior as an admiral. So people are promoted. So the behavior, and actually, if i am recalling correctly, they did not charge him with any actual conduct with gdma. They got him with lying to investigators. Brian will he go to prison . Chris i think he has some personal issues, i dont know what theyll do with him. Brian lets continue. Captain daniel dusek. Brian he is in prison. Brian former of the uss bonner richard. There he is on the screen. He is a captain, and why is he in prison . Chris he was in the middle of all of this and was part and parcel of some of the worst behavior. He guided ships to ports that were controlled by glenn Defense Marine. He provided classified information on ship movements. The classified information that is always referred to, as far as im aware of, in almost every case is about ship movements, planned the ship movements in advance. It is not necessarily unusual that we would share such information with a foreign commercial company or partner, but none of this was done through any official channels. This was all just stuff feeding to them. Dusek was right in the middle of them and for a while he enjoyed a pretty good lifestyle. He was routinely at some wonderful, fabulous restaurants, great hotels, big time parties, lots of very expensive booze and very expensive cigars and lots of very expensive prostitutes. Brian all paid for by . Chris all paid for by glenn Defense Marine. He had contact with fat leonard. Brian i am going to bring up another fellow, because this story, it is a hard one. The fellow from a little town in illinois. He was born in cambodia, brought over to this country by a woman in the u. S. Army, raised in this country, and what happened to him . Chris this photo, that is a really sad photo. At the time of this photo he was the Commanding Officer of the destroyer that made a port call to cambodia, the First Official u. S. Navy visit to cambodia since 1975 and he was the Commanding Officer. These were actually family members that came to meet him. This was a terribly touching moment. He was a i mean, i know i have actually i know people who served with him. I actually interviewed him extensively. He was a very well thought of officer. People were stunned when they found out he was caught up with this. But he is a good example of the kind of targeted individual that gdma would go after. So most of these people did not start off there are some exceptions but most of the exceptions were in the very first wave of arrests. In 2013. So, the people who were complicit in these Ongoing Operations were byandlarge targeted in one way or another. Brian where is he now . Chris in prison for 76 months. I believe he is the longest, he has got the longest prison sentence so far which is somewhat surprising. Brian i think one of them got 12 years. I want to show you some video of when he went back to linn arce, illinois, spoke to his high school. It was a heroes welcome. Just listen to what he had to say. [begin video clip] thank god we have the best volunteer force in the world. This reminds me of [indiscernible] it is ok to be a happy sheep. [indiscernible] for it is the sheepdogs in our military who keep watch, and we will take action to keep the world safe. [end video clip] brian after he was convicted and sent to prison, when was the last time you talked to him . Chris just a few days before he reported to federal prison. Brian what was his attitude . Chris he has accepted it. I think he is more resentful. He thinks he was really stupid. He is still rationalizing a good bit of it. He is upset that he thinks other people were worse than he was and do not seem to have gotten punished as much as he has. He said there is still lots of people out there who have yet to be arrested. Brian one of the pictures during the trial was him with i think a bunch of japanese women, i am not sure. You can see it on the screen. How important was this whole thing, sexual favors in this process . Chris it was a regular feature of the kind of services that leonard would provide to people who provided him information. In this case, he was approached by somebody who was already compromised. They would discuss with leonard, leonard was always asking people, find me a good candidate. Is this guy approachable . Will he play ball with us . Do you think he will . What are his weaknesses . Will he work with us . Has he got money problems . Has he got romantic problems, relationship problems . At this time he was actually having relationship problems with his wife. Brian what happened eventually . Chris he was divorced. His marriage wasnt going well. This is the sort of thing they would do. Suddenly he is at a party. Suddenly there is companionship and suddenly we are having a good time. And he was susceptible to it. And the thing was that they would routinely approach people in all manner of ways. People were constantly being put in compromising positions. This is a great photograph, sort of the ultimate of where this is all going, but it did not take much. Everybody came into contact with him. It was hard for officers to do a western pacific port call western pacific. Brian we have a map, by the way, to show that part of the world. When you talk about the seventh fleet, it is not the entire that a great deal of it. Chris everything you see there is the seventh fleet. Brian how many ships . Chris not that many. There is the seventh fleet and the seventh fleet area of operations, aor. The seventh fleet is based in japan. Its homeported in japan. It is an Aircraft Carrier, a couple of cruisers and some destroyers, and they are based in japan at a gdma port. The flagship blue ridge routinely makes, they do 2, 2 or 3month patrols a year and go from port to port to port. The pacific is all about bilateral relationships, so there is no nato in the pacific. It is very important for the commander of the Pacific Fleet and the seventh fleet to constantly be going around to these Different Countries and keeping relationships going with their counterparts in those countries, so they routinely make these port calls, every one of which was an opportunity for gdma. One thing thats lost in this a bit is that is the seventh fleet, they lived there. Everybody passing through the area falls under seventh fleet jurisdiction and they would pull into all these ports. San diegobased ships, pearl harborbased ships routinely deploying to the Central Command Operations Area in the middle east, the persian gulf, the red sea. They have to pass through this area. Brian let me read some more. Former special agent, naval criminal investigative service, downloaded and leaked scores of ncis reports about pending criminal investigations into glenn defense. Status, he pleaded guilty to bribery and conspiracy to commit bribery, punishment, 12 years in prison. Chris im sorry, right. Ok. Brian bribes taken, cash, laptop computer, airfare, a prostitute from the philippines, threeweek five country vacation in southeast asia. He was ncis. Chris he was the agent referred to by secretary mavis. He was the agent. Brian how often does this happen . Chris it doesnt. Thats kind of a classic mole. How often do any of these happen . Brian i would like to ask you that. How long have you covered the navy . Chris im well into my second decade doing it. A long time. Brian put this whole thing into perspective. Chris so, there is this criminal investigation, and there is an ethics investigation. The ethics investigation is falling directly out of the criminal investigation, but this is probably the widest and deepest ethics investigation in the history of the u. S. Navy. The criminal behavior aside, so i mean part of this is you have to there is a criminal investigation that is certainly getting people for doing things they should not have done. They broke the law. Theres no question about it. Theres no question this was bad behavior. Brian i want to read another one, just so people can understand the scope of all this. A guy named paul simpkins, former Navy Contracting supervisor based in singapore, that is where the company was, rigged navy contracts in thailand for glenn defense in exchange for 350,000 in bribes and prostitutes. Acted as a secret fixer for the firm. Pled guilty in june of 2016 to bribery and conspiracy to commit bribery. His punishment was december 2016 to six years in prison plus 450,000 in fines and restitution. Heres what i found when i went beyond what was reported. He wanted fat leonard to provide him some clean, diseasefree women when he got into port in singapore. Have you sat through any of these trials . Chris no, i have not. They are all in san diego. Brian how typical is this in the navy . I mean, over the years, without being a pollyannaish about it . Maybe i shouldnt ask it this way, but chris typical demanding of the guy who you are working for illegally, of what kind of favors you want. Brian im going to go another route. Typical of the navy that when they end up in port that there are prostitutes, how big a deal has that been over the years . Chris you mean in every port . A sailor has somebody in every port . I think its a fact of life. I think its unavoidable. I think its unavoidable to go to a highend hotel and not have someone. Brian 2000 cigars . Chris i was at a hotel in singapore a year ago watching guys come in, clearly with someone of the night, and the hotel are very good at looking the other way. Brian and thats not as unusual as having somebody like fat leonard paying for a prostitute . I mean having it set up . Chris you just had to order it out. You can just say, i hope we have some entertainment, can you send pictures of the entertainment . We are eager to see pictures. Brian heres another one. The former director of intelligence operations of the u. S. Navy and intelligence chief of the seventh fleet, arrested in california march 2017 and charged with conspiracy, bribery, and making false statements. His case is pending. He has pleaded not guilty. Chris he was just charged. Hes one of the nine who are just charged. Brian did you know him . Chris i have not met him, no. Brian when will his trial be held if he doesnt plea out . Chris i have no idea. Justice will have a trial when they are ready to have a trial. Brian im getting at, how long has this process taken . Chris most of these folks have not had to try they havent had to try to many of them. Misiewicz wanted to plead not guilty, he wanted to plead his case. Then he was convinced to accept the reality that they were going to get him anyway. Brian heres the former Commanding Officer of the uss George Washington and uss blue ridge. Chris thats a flagship. Brian allegedly steered warships to ports controlled by glenn defense and sought to undermine his competitors. Arrested in florida in march and charged with conspiracy, bribery, destruction of justice, and making false statements. His status, case, and plea is pending. Bribes allegedly taken for prostitution and travel. Commander stephen shedd, former Commanding Officer, and planning officer for the seventh fleet, allegedly leaked classified information about ship movements to francis, arrested in colorado and charged with conspiracy and bribery. Case is still pending. I can go on. Chris he is somewhat interesting. He was a junior officer. As a lieutenant commander, he was on the staff of the seventh fleet, and provided a great amount of information, ship movements, to gdma. Then his tour came to an end and he was transferred out. He went to tennessee. But he missed the lifestyle. He was new personnel in tennessee and managed to wrangle a return to the seventh fleet and the lifestyle. He came and went, and the attractiveness of the lifestyle that leonard provided these folks was like a drug. In they couldnt do without it. It was a lot of fun. They would go off and be straight for a little while, and then its time for a party. If they gave good information, they expected a good party. A lot of it was based on port calls of ships. The blue ridge, the flagship, francis was always going for operations people. On the staff of the seventh fleet who could guide the ships. Brian francis is fat leonard . Chris fat leonard. He emailed these people had direct communications with fat leonard. In many cases, it was not through intermediary. It was a group of them. Brian how much money did fat leonard get out of this . Chris millions and millions. Glenn Defense Marine asia routinely charged a lot of money. They were a highend husbanding agency, one of the most comprehensive. Anything you want you could get from gdma. Just say it. We will find a way to get it. But you did pay for it. There was a premium. This did not escape a lot of people. There were some investigations. There was one in 2006 that didnt go anywhere. He wanted to know about investigations, and he would put pressure on senior people that compromised to in turn put pressure on them to make the investigations go away. He would reach out. He would say, can you make this go away . And the guy would write a letter. Brian you mentioned there was an investigation in 2006. I want to put it in the mix because its a very local story in san diego. On the local pbs station they had a roundtable in 2015. There were a couple of things said by laura wingard, who works for the station, and the person who wrote stories for the san diego tribune. [begin video clip] laura one of the things thats astonishing about this is in 2006 they had a whistleblower and they didnt act on it. There was a good soldier who said, hey, these charges are way out of line, in the navy ignored it. I think it speaks to the culture of how things are going there. Its astonishing they did not act. It is a larger story how the navy administers and overseas what becomes an expanded program of contracting out to private companies, services and things that the service is used to handle themselves. In this case, in particular it is a big issue. It was not just the one person in 2006. There are other indications in the record that people were raising their hands. Saying, hey wait a minute. This is ridiculous. They just couldnt get traction. [end video clip] brian how much did you know about the whistleblower in 2006 . When did we first know about the whistleblower . Chris i didnt hear about it until it broke in 2013. Brian so that kind of thing doesnt become public. Chris it just means i didnt do it. Not necessarily. Criminal behavior is not the primary focus of what i do. Brian defense news reporting to the business, to the navy, to the defense department, to the contractors and all that. While were at it, lets show you what admiral richardson, chief of Naval Operations, this was Craig Whitlock, who has not been spotlighted. Heres him in 2016 in may asking the chief of the of operations what he thinks. [begin video clip] within the navy, how is this case being felt . What kind of damage is it causing . What sort of reaction is it causing among the officers who dont engage in that kind of the behavior but are seeing a pattern of a problem out there . I think you have categorized it well. Its in progress, so we can only talk about it to a certain degree. Number two, the vast majority of our leaders, both in uniform and civilian force, are behaving exactly consistent with that trust and confidence the American People have enough. For that small minority involved in this type of behavior, behavior that nobody can be proud of, we have to let the Investigation Complete and we will respond to the information in a way that will maintain that trust and confidence. [end video clip] brian what did you think of his answer, and have they responded . Chris you are touching on a number of things pretty fast. Lets just say right away, that guy you just saw, admiral john richardson, chief of Naval Operations, that is the reason that title is attached to that guy, because of the fat leonard gdma investigation. Otherwise, he would have an entirely different job, the head of Naval Nuclear reactors, which is what he was groomed for. The whole backend of his career. It is a dual headed job. It has an Energy Department function as well. It oversees all nuclear reactors. All the equipment. It is a unique job. It is a six year term. It is a sunset term. In other words, thats it, you retire after that. Its the only sixyear term in the navy. Its unique. Richardson was already nr when this broke publicly. The navy set up its consolidated Disposition Authority that was richardson, in many peoples. Viewpoints, was one of the most ethical people in the navy. You dont get to be a nuke by definition is a person who follows the rules. The head nuke, nr, its a pretty imposing position. Brian was he put into this position because of this . Mr. Cavas he was nr. They were already investigating a couple test cheating scandals in the submarine service. The navy felt it had confidence in him. So he was the chief adjudicator of the cda. The ethics part of this investigation, the postcriminal investigation, now navy ethics probe, was richardsons bailiwick. When the last cno was retiring, some of the more highly thought of prospective reliefs for this position could potentially come under the fat leonard investigation. And apparently, because you cant confirm any theres no Statement Issued that so and so was in an investigation and you found nothing. Nobody gets a clean bill of health. They only really find out is if they caught you. Everything is assumed or it appears so, more people heard this. You talked about mike mullen, chief of Naval Operations, and left to become chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. He was a big pacific admiral. He had to have run into fat leonard, he had to have his picture taken with fat leonard, because everybody had their picture taken with fat leonard. Gary who came after him was in the same position. Everybody had ties, even if it was just that they had their picture taken with the guy at a party. There was the potential that you named somebody, and he would come under investigation, and that would embarrass the navy again. Ive never had a straight answer if admiral greenert was under investigation. I have asked that many times. Richardson was seen in some ways as a clean alternative. So the navy took the unprecedented move of taking him out of nr, the head of Naval Nuclear reactors, hes in charge of this very, very serious engineering position that is very specific, he was taken out of that and became chief of Naval Operations. In many ways, thats a piece of fallout from gdma right there. Without this investigation, he probably would still be nr. Brian let me drop back 23 years, show you some video of a former chief of Naval Operations by the name of frank calzo. I want to run this, because this is another time in navys past that was not so stellar. [video clip] i think the greatest Lesson Learned from tailhook is we have to be more attentive to our house and what we do and how we act so we can prevent Something Like this from happening. I greatly regret i did not have the foresight to be able to see tailhook could occur. In hindsight, i clearly concede that. We need to work harder to be able to understand the changes taking place and deal with it at an earlier time than to let us get into a case like tailhook, where we have a very difficult problem. As you know, this is very difficult to come to an end to. I think this is the end of tailhook. Brian he had to leave as the chief of Naval Operations a couple months early because of this. Did the navy learn anything back then . Mr. Cavas the navy learned a lot, but some people dont learn anything. Thats true throughout society and still true today. There are tonedeaf people everywhere. Brian but there were 180 people in the navy involved in this. Mr. Cavas so tailhook, the Tailhook Association is the professional association of naval aviators. And once a year they have a gathering in nevada, the tailhook convention. They talk about airplanes. They talk about flight operations. They also have a lot of drinks and a lot of fun. And they have a lot of good times. That was a tradition at tailhook. A lot of that behavior involved sexual behavior with women. A lot of people would consider that sexual assault. A lot of people could be charged with sexual assault. Its criminal behavior, not just unethical. Not just mores. And this was a routine feature of these conventions. In 1991, they went too far. Somebody made charges. It came out this was going on. It was a major scandal. You are trying to change behavior, but it affected everybody. The Navy Investigation went way beyond the aviation community. People had to sign a paper that said you werent there. Anybody who was there was under great investigation. A lot of people resigned. A lot of people were found guilty of various levels of bad behavior. It was a really deeply cathartic isnt the right word traumatic event inside the navy culture. Definitely inside navy aviation, but within the navy itself and how you treated women. Were women sexual objects or were they your professional peers . This investigation went on for a great many years. Clearly the way the aviators were treating women at the tail hook was not as professional peers. So this investigation went on for four or five years within the navy. And a great many people were caught up with it. A great many people were kicked out. Eventually, the end, as happens throughout society, at some point a previously accepted behavior now becomes unacceptable. We are not going to do this anymore. 20 years ago, it was routine. You would hope nobody would think of doing these things today, but some people get the message and some people dont. As with racism, as with discrimination of any kind, as with discrimination against religions, sexual discrimination, sexual orientation, the mores change. So things you used to do, you dont anymore. And the message there, especially when the cno is forced to resign, this is no longer acceptable. You make examples of people. You try to stamp out. Theres no question that abuses against women have not been stamped out in the u. S. Navy. They have not been stamped out anywhere. Brian for people listening, if they want to get a capsule of how many people have been indicted, wikipedia has a site that has them all listed. Most of the information comes from Craig Whitlock and the washington post. It is called the fat leonard scandal site. I want to read off of that. And ask you about this. The last page, i counted 31 people involved in some way or another. Mr. Cavas this is the criminal side. Brian not entirely. Rear admiral adrian jansen, received nonjudicial punishment by the navy, and retirement pending. Vice admiral michael h. Miller, disciplined by the navy, received censure, retired in august 2015. Rear admiral terry kraft, disciplined by the navy, received censurer in 2015 and was forced into retirement. Mr. Cavas this is nonjudicial. Brian rear admiral david pimpo. They tell you what they have done wrong. But how often in the history of the navy you said this is maybe the worst ethics this many admirals had to step down, had to leave . Mr. Cavas you sort of have to ask the question, how prevalent is this behavior anywhere . This happens to be the navy under investigation. Nobodys looking at the army and nobodys looking at the air force and nobodys looking at the marines. And they have their own issues right now with naked pictures online. If theres an investigation that starts to turn out bad behavior, i mean, this inevestigation is a navycentric investigation. I dont know that anyone else has this level of investigation. Brian for somebody that has tuned into this discussion late, please again go over what it is. By the way, is the Company Still in business and does the navy still do business with it . Mr. Cavas the company is still in business. The navy stopped doing business with them before 2013 was over. Part of the thing here is this is not i like the promotional video at the top of the show. They featured all u. S. Navy ships in that, because the u. S. Navy is by far the most valuable customer you could have. But they by no means are confined to the u. S. Navy. Virtually every navy that is out there and goes there operates out there and deals with glenn Defense Marine asia. Thats the the navy, the japanese, the british, everybody. They deal with cruise ships a huge business with cruise ships. Brian which they could easily pay off without criminal activity. Mr. Cavas built cruise ship terminals. Its an incredible sophisticated operation. Every ship out there, it was a very enormous, very sophisticated operation. The u. S. Navy happened to be a great customer. Brian let me simplify it for people who dont know how the navy operates. If i were in the navy connected with the seventh fleet, i would pick up the phone and tell fat leonards company we are going to go a certain place, and we are going to do business with you. Or better than that, the glenn Marine Defense says you go here instead of here because we are ready to serve you. And then the payoff comes for me, in terms of vacations and hotel rooms. Mr. Cavas so the cambodian fellow you showed was an excellent example. He was a deputy Operations Officer in the seventh fleet. Leonard had an operation going in malaysia, the part of malaysia on the northwest coast of borneo. It is on the South China Sea. People have probably heard of the South China Sea now. It has become a rather strategic area. Its a big place. Not small. That was a port directly on the South China Sea. There was a carrier going to do a port of call. They were going to go to singapore. And leonard said he was beefing up the whole operation. Its a great place, it will be a great place for liberty, and we have all the concessions. Can you do that . Misiewicz did do that. Misiewicz managed to change the port call from that carrier. I think it was the carl vincent. Brian how could he have that much power . Mr. Cavas you lobby for it. You have meetings. What is the best port . We go to singapore all the time. You are a ways from singapore. They had better beaches out here, whatever. He managed to sell it, they said ok. Its not the first time the u. S. Navy was going there, but it was the first time an Aircraft Carrier went there. 5000 people were going to have a good time. A lot of money, a lot of hotels, a lot of fun. They went to the port. They did a weekend. Everybody was happy, had a great time. Misiewicz got a letter of commendation for making that happen. We would never have thought of this without you. It worked out. I forget what year it was, but he got a letter of commendation, and he was actually cited for it when he left the position. Now, glenn Defense Marine made more than 2 million on that port call. So when a ship could come in, you are talking about a lot of money that will come your way for taking care of all of these services. Brian trash onboard, waste, all that. Mr. Cavas husbanding services. They made more than 2 million on that. They were paid more than 2 million for that port call. A similar port call to singapore would have been much less than half of that. So it cost a lot more. Misiewicz rationalized it, and the navy rationalized it by saying we have opened a new strategic port right on the South China Sea, and our ongoing and continuing relationship with china, that is something significant. We are not just confined to singapore. That was viewed as a real accomplishment. So we paid for it. We paid a lot of money for it. Now, people were always questioning glenn Defense Marine expenditures bills. Lots of people questioned why we are paying this much. It was a culture within the navy that said, dont worry about it. Its not your job. So the ship, before you leave, the last hour before you shove off, you are signing a lot of papers and closing out accounts. You have agents onboard, they say they will charge for this, and if you ask what is this for . For example, the brow. You walk up and down. Sometimes the u. S. Navy owns those brows. We leave them there because we come into them all the time. Why rent one . We just have one, we will stick it over here and use it. And we would, we own the brow, it said u. S. Navy on it. Glenn Defense Marine would charge 10,000, 20,000, 80,000 for the rental of a brow. And the supply officer signing for this, why are we doing that . We own it. Its ours. It says u. S. Navy on it. It does not say gdma. They were told, dont worry about it, we will sign for it. You are on a ship. So the pernicious effect of this you are supply officer. You have nothing to do with making these arrangements. You are set up with people at the local level. You are just a ship coming in here and using the services, but you didnt arrange for this. You are not an agent. And you dont necessarily deal directly with the agents. But you are the supply officer, executive officer, you have to sign for this. Its half an hour before i shove off, i have to be out of here. We are leaving at 10 00. Im signing these papers, i ask what its for, somebody says dont worry about it, its taken care of at fleet level. This is ridiculous. This is how we do it. Do not worry about it. So now you are under investigation, is this your signature . Did you sign for that . Why didnt you pursue this further . Brian theres a lot more we could talk about. Were out of time. Chris cavas of defense news, a reporter for that organization talking about the navy and the
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