Part for journalists in America Thanks to her mustread column times, talking of the road not taken, even a quiet life is a barkeepers life back in clare. Talking about your mother, your family, your irishness. Ms. Dowd that would be my dads family. Mr. Lamb what about the most powerful journalist in america . Ms. Dowd that is what irishamerica would say. [laughter] dowd i am sure there is another magazine that thinks paul krugman is and another that thinks Paul Friedman is. They were giving a boost to one of their own. Mr. Lamb how important is it to be irish . Ms. Dowd it gets more important as i get older, funny enough. When i was small, my dad would make us recite irish poetry into one of the old initial tape recorders. My brothers name is kevin barry, so he would have to recite barry and i would have to recite things, you know, at the time, a lot of it seemed kind of corny, but as you get older, and now the nation is obsessed with ancestry and of finding out things, as you get older, you realize it is really nice to know everything about your roots and to have a warm feeling that ancestry can get you. Mr. Lamb that is something that you wrote about in your book. You have some fresh stuff and we will talk about that. Heres something you write about and i want you to explain this portrait to the audience. [laughter] ms. Dowd right. That was such a weird story. So, what was the guys name . Nelson sparks . Mr. Lamb nelson chang. Ms. Dowd yes, he recently died. He was given a commission to do an official portrait for bill clinton. And for his own reasons, there he oddly, he had in his studio a mannequin and a blue dress just randomly. He put the blue dress on the mannequin and a painted the shadow of that into the picture. Not haveton often does on a wedding ring, which is weird. So, when they found out, i dont think they wanted to put the painting up. Not the clintons, but it was the museum. It is in storage. He was trying to investigate whether it was in storage because he had played this spectral trick where he had an illusion to the blue dress. And there is a history of that kind of thing in art, but i think when you get a commission to paint a president , the president definitely does not want an allusion to his white house sex scandal in there. Mr. Lamb i saw the painting at the portrait gallery. The first thing i thought, i had no idea there was the blue dress image on there. It was the shoes. If the president of the United States gets his shoes shined, those are the ugliest shoes in the world. [laughter] ms. Dowd i know, it was very strange that he did that. It was up for it while and then they took it down. He suspected the clintons asked him to take it down but he never approved it, you know . You know, i think it would have a right to, such an offering to do in an official portrait. I think they would have a right to, yo u know . Such an odd thing to do in an official portrait. Mr. Lamb in your opinion, what are the chances he will become the first spouse january 20 . Ms. Dowd i would say at the rate we going, 100 . That is when you go to hollywood, the story line all of the clinton donors are really excited about. There was an old Frederick Mcmurray movie called kisses for my president where she was the first woman president and he was the first lad, but hollywood mostly hasnt seen anything like that. When they got sarah palin, they got so excited because it opened up their imaginations to have a beautiful, sexy young women in than in the role of dick cheney, something that usually had been old, grayhaired men. That is where you get a bunch of other things that it never occurred to them, wow, we could have a babe in this role. And in the same way, they loved the story line of bill clinton as first lad. He says he wants to be called first laddy. The funny thing is, hillary has said she might let him do the economy and let chelsea do the hostessing, and hillary would keep picking out the china. But you really should not do that. She should let bill do the traditional things first ladies have to do because it would be a great way to show how antiquated the job is because hillary hated it and chafed at it. Michelle has done it beautifully, but it is kind of a white satin jail for a woman lik e hillary or michelle who have the same educational credentials as their husbands. Saw billnk if you clinton doing it, i think you would realize that maybe we need to modernize the job. Mr. Lamb you have a column in your book from march 6, 2016 and it starts out, here is why the Donald Trump Campaign is wicked fun. [laughter] mr. Lamb do you remember what you said . Ms. Dowd yes, that lasted for about five minutes. Well, the second part was just wicked. The fun was seeing the political applecart of you know, leeches, the Political Consultants that make millions of dollars giving candidates bad advice and to , 170 jeb spent i think million in negative ads and donald trump was doing his own instagram, making them up himself. It was just fun to see that kind society turned over, and to have a more direct connection between the candidate and the voters. But that did not last long because then, you know, there were all these bursts of bigotry and racism and misogyny, which kind of took over the fun, populous part. Mr. Lamb did i count right . 21 years of writing your column . Ms. Dowd wow, i dont like to think about that. It is been since 1995. Mr. Lamb so, 21 years. In my county right . You only do one week now. Ms. Dowd i do one a week and i work halftime for the sunday magazine for our brilliant editor. Mr. Lamb how do you know the column has hit a nerve . Ms. Dowd well, you know, we have comments, which i never read, but you can see them. I can see the number of comments. You can tell on twitter, you know, where it has picked up, if it is mentioned in cable news. Mr. Lamb is there somebody that called you on that sunday morning and says, you got them this time . Ms. Dowd i have a friends who will do that. They will read it. It comes out saturday afternoon, basically, so i have friends saturday read it afternoon. And you can tell if you hear from them or you do not what they thought. Mr. Lamb what is the best thing they can say to you . Ms. Dowd just that they enjoyed it, that they thought i did a good job. Mr. Lamb this is one from february of 2015. I will pay for this column, you write, the rottweilers will be unleashed. Once the clintons have a war room and now they have a slime room. Once they had the sly James Carville fondly known a serpent head and now they have the slippery david brock accurately known as a snake. We have video we are going to show of david brock before and after. Ms. Dowd right. Mr. Lamb why did you call him a snake . Ms. Dowd well, this is actually something that really concerns me about the coming clinton administration. Because you know, she does have this idealistic Public Service side. I she also, over the decades, has developed a kind of, a different side where she often makes decisions from a darker place, of fear and insecurity. Secretiveness and defensiveness tends to trip up the Public Service side. To that end, she has surrounded herself with a lot of henchmen who will slime people, who were even saying accurate things about the clintons. And i think that speaks to this paranoid side she has. So, they are going to come with her, in one way or the other, either outside the white house or inside the white house. And you know, it just worries me because i wish she could have the confidence to throw off that kind of person, and i interviewed Bernie Sanders and he was really concerned about that as well because david brock had been attacking him on his these sleazy ways in the primary and he does not understand why she needs to have this kind of person around here. But in my experience, people tend to get more paranoid in the white house, at the very moment the entire country of firms them and they should feel confident. Comeften, their gremlins out then. That is not only with president s. With any chief executive office, often times that is when their insecurities come out, when they get to the top, which seems counterintuitive, but it is pretty common. Mr. Lamb this is video from 1993 and 2015 of david brock. You can see him when he worked for the American Spectator and the clinton project. And then you can see him now as he raises money for Hillary Clinton and runs the other side. He switched complete sides. Lets take a look at this. [video clip] Larry Patterson quotes that it is Common Knowledge of the governors residence that mrs. Clinton was intimately involved when governor clinton would leave town. Shortly thereafter vince foster would regularly show up at the mansion and stay through the hours of the night with mrs. Clinton. They were often driven out to a retreat that the Rose Law Firm kept a cabin outside of little rock where they spent extensive time together. Much to my own surprise and certainly to my professional detriment as a right wing hitman, i wrote about a woman with a steadfast commitment to Public Service, a lifelong passion for children and family and a deep wealth of personal integrity. Mr. Lamb how does this happen . Ms. Dowd i do not know. It was his work on the state troopers in arkansas that lead to impeachment, right . With paula jones and everything . But he the irony to me is he was the main kind of attack dog hill as a little bit nutty and a little bit bloody. And then he had his conversion on the road to damascus and bill clinton called him because he liked his book, blinded by the right. So, they brought him in. The clintons turned him around and he now runs one of the media conglomerates, one of the pacs, that defends her and goes after people who write accurate things about her even. The irony is, he was smearing anita hill, and now, he is part of the clinton team. And the clinton team, Sidney Blumenthal and charlie rank, and elizabeth hillary, were sneering mearing monica as a little bit nutty and fluffy. That is an interesting arc right there. Mr. Lamb alvear on this, we have to talk about this. This is a picture of you. And you have to tell me where this came from. Ms. Dowd yes, with cindy blumenthal. We just happened to be standing in line. He was standing in line in front of it. We took this together. It was funny because bill has an allergy, you know, he has a lot of allergies. And he has an allergy with trees so they always photoshop the Christmas Tree before and after. Bill and i both have on lovely ties. Mr. Lamb how long ago was that . Ms. Dowd gosh, that was probably at the beginning of the clinton administration. The thing is, i feel sorry for president s for the Media Christmas Party because they have to stand there and pose with all the reporters they are probably seething about. I dont think it is a very pleasant evening for them. Mr. Lamb it is a constant subtheme over the last two years, about Sidney Blumenthal. How does he fit into this . Ms. Dowd donald trump keeps trying to bring him up in the debates and rallies and nobody knows who he is. Unless, i mean, people in washington do but none of these people at the donald trump rallies. It is so funny to see donald trump trying to make that state. Make that stick. It is a rare case where trump is right that Sidney Blumenthal was one of the ones who, you know, was smearing people and, what is the issue that he came up in most recently . Oh, come on. I know exactly what you are talking about. [laughter] irtherwd oh, the b thing. He was trying to say that hillary started the birther thing. It turns out blumenthal went to a reporter and suggested he sent a reporter to kenya to check out and see if obama was really born in kenya. You know, as always with donald can be a kernel of truth in what he is saying. That does not excuse his absurd and defensive birther campaign, but there were hillary people calling reporters and trying to suggest the same thing. Mr. Lamb here is more video, and this time you write about dick morris who worked for bill clinton and now works for the other side on the New York Times best seller list, on the right side of things. Here he is, and it kind of goes back to what you said in the first question about watching this town and what it is all about. Here is 1998 and 2016. This is the same man. [video clip] the democrats do not want the abortion debate to be resolved. They do not want gun control to be passed. They do not want necessarily, our environmental problems to be solved because they are too good for getting votes. Essentially, what he decided to do was to take each of the problems we face as a society and in a very workman like way, almost in a nonpartisan way, he brought them to a solution. I think he succeeded overwhelmingly. Now, corruption and money making is the beall and end all. They have gone from a romance in the 1970s and 1980s to a partnership in the 1990s to a Racketeering Organization today, where bills job is to pass the bag, and hillarys job is to offer access and favors to those who put money inside. Ms. Dowd wow, you know. Girl seems by a call so quaint now. That was a crazy sex scandal n did morris was caught when dick morris was caught to doing that. Now we have all sorts of vulgarities and cruelties. Mr. Lamb how about what we are seeing with anything to do with the american peoples attitude toward this town. Ms. Dowd well, i think the cases you have shown are extreme cases, but that is what is disturbing about the clintons because they will hire anyone who can help them win. I was at that convention where that story broke about the toesucking and he had to resign. I think hillary helped bring him back in. Yeah, he was very, i think that theirrt of their kind of conservative streak they brought to democratic politics. Storymb the toesucking at the Jefferson Hotel in washington, was he with a call girl . Ms. Dowd talking on the phone to clinton and congressman and stuff. Mr. Lamb where are you on the cynic side, the skeptic side . Ms. Dowd i think often times people think journalists are cynics, but often times, we are idealists. I am definitely not cynical, maybe you get a little jaded if you see enough things that this that dissolution you. But i think basically the reason people want to be journalist is because they are idealists. 30,lamb this is from may 2015. I recently interviewed several dozen hollywood players, mostly on background because of fears about the famed clinton didnt clinton vindictive streak. I have more to read. How does that work when you are writing . How do they go on background or off the record . Ms. Dowd yes, i think you know, hillary and trump are known for vindictive strakes, so it is hard to get people to go on the record when you are talking about either of them. Mr. Lamb did they say to you, this is off the record or do you say to them, how do you want me to quote this . Ms. Dowd well, both. Case, i remember one woman it was very involved in all of the races of the clintons in hollywood. And a donor said, the problem with the clintons, but she did not want to say this on the record because they all knew probably there would be another clinton administration. She said the problem with the clintons is you kind of get right in the middle of the campaign or a white house with them and is something blows up. That that is their modus operandi. With hillary, the email thing was breaking and they were not sure. But they are kind of handcuffed to this roller coaster, where with the clintons, there is always some snake popping out of the can you did not know about. They could be a small thing they have hidden, or a large thing they have hidden, but then it comes tumbling out at an inopportune moment. Mr. Lamb going back to the column, they are not over the moon about barack obama you wrote in 2015 anymore, even feel burned. He was like a razzledazzle trailer that turned out to be a disappointing movie with mediocre box office. Ms. Dowd right, well, i think craze of 2008,ip barack obama and michelle you rememberd obama as michelle saying, this is not about politics, this is about our souls. It was more than politics. It was something cleaner, finer, pressure. People thought they were turning. And in hollywood that was ground zero of people who were betraying the clinton machine. I think that people in hollywood who sort of changed sides and went with obama against the clinton machine did not think eight years later obama would put out the red carpet for the clinton machine because now all of these people are going to be pariahs, anyone that left the clintons before for obama. Mr. Lamb why does president obama working so hard for mrs. Clinton . Ms. Dowd well, the first africanamerican president does not want his legacy erased by the most overtly racist candidate in modern times, certainly. An amazingo, she is campaigner. I think that is about his legacy more than it is about the clintons. Although hillary is his handpicked choice. He pushed biden aside for her. You wrote in february of 2016, johnson saidndon the two things that make politicians more stupid than anything else are sex and envy. With hillary there are three things. Sex, money and the need for secrecy. Ms. Dowd yes, it is so weird that this campaign is like the revenge of the 1990s. Both candidates are kind of good bothes are candidates are kind of, greed is good candidates, in a weird way. I recently reread all of the biographies of hillary in my own, starting up covering her in 1992, very supportively. I was surprised when i went back and read it when she was running. I was very supportive, even as a news reporter. But somewhere along the way, maybe when she got to arkansas and the marriage was rocky and she thought she might have to itsrt the family, maybe one of these things like johnson areat you think you doing Public Service, but i think i should get what it wouldve gotten if i had gone into the private sector, but somewhere along the way she did get this fixation on money, which is weird because they made so many you know, hundreds of millions, even if they spent a bunch every day, they could never spend it. So, why on earth, and if she is going to be president and he is going to be the first first lad, they will get 20 million each to do memoirs once they are in there. So, why would you go to goldman 75,000d make those speeches . Mr. Lamb in that same speech, youome column you