Is the secret. Persistence. Brian how do you pick your books . Laurence it is a stupid thing to do. I should choose an area and keep at it, but i wanted to do something much different. Experience different lives. When you write a nonfiction book, you are thinking back in somebodys life. I want to piggyback on as many lives as i can. Brian of the 15 books, which one sold the most . Laurence the kennedy women, by a longshot. The number two New York Times bestseller. It was my agents idea. A book about a multigenerational book about women. Nobody had ever written a multigenerational book about women. So, to put women at the forefront just totally changed things. Brian what about the kennedy women do you most remember and what did the audience want to hear when you talk to them . Laurence it was a book i suggested that you do not have to be a woman to love the kennedy women. Because it was a book read by women. I mean, women of that generation women read that book and they , just loved that it was their story and they could all identify one way and another with the evolution of women in america. Brian you did a trilogy on the kennedys. Which one came first . Laurence the kennedy women. Brian 1994. Then what . Laurence i worked in a coal mine, earlier. When i was in magazine writer. I broke my finger in the coal mine, went back in. Lived in West Virginia in a trailer for six months. Developed a love for country music. I went down and wrote a book about country music, which did not sell very well. Then a publisher came back and said we want to do a book, the kennedy men, and if you do not do it, we will find somebody else to do it. That convinced me i should do it. So i did that one. Brian what was special about that particular book . Laurence it was the story of the men through the five generations, just the way the kennedy women had been the women. I was supposed to tell the entire story, but i did not. It got so long we had to break it into two parts. The second volume was the young generation that came after that. Sons of camelot. Brian did you get to talk to any of the kennedy men . Laurence yes, and the women. Brian of all of those, who did you like the most, or who did you get the most from . Laurence mrs. Shriver. Since we have an hour, im going to tell you the story. I went to the Special Olympics. I went to the minneapolis games and i got in the car with the shrivers and spent the whole week with them. I did not ask. I just hung out with them. I came back and i set up she agreed to an interview. I have a journalists soul. The phone rings, im going to answer the phone. Ok . Every writer i know answers the phone the same way. On the first ring you are so desperate to talk to somebody. The phone rang that morning of the interview, and i have to answer the phone. I totally panicked, do not know what to do. What can i do . I knew this woman who gave this wonderful oral history for the kennedy library. I do not know if she was still around. I looked at the phone book there were still phonebooks. And there she was, living in georgetown. I called and said i am doing a book. She said yes, id be happy. Can you come over right now . I took a cab, walked in. This big house. Withad had an affair churchill. She said, would you like to see my memorabilia . Here is winstons cigar. I said, this is fascinating. I am doing this book on the kennedys, can we talk about the kennedys . She says yes. , how are the kennedys . I said, the kennedys are great. I think the history of the family changed with the assassination of president kennedy. Hes dead . So, that was my day. That would have been about 1992. Then mrs. Shriver did talk to me. And i became quite close to her. I would go out to the events she would have over there. And it was interesting because we talk about the Special Olympics, to my mind is the best thing the kennedys have ever done. Changed our attitude towards those with intellectual disabilities, all across the world. Not just the United States. They started that in 1968. Rosemary kennedy, of course, who had the lobotomy in 1941, was mildly intellectually disabled and her father tragically want to be on the cutting edge and had this lobotomy which ended up mental age of a three or fouryearold. They started the Special Olympics. But mrs. Shriver was convinced the Special Olympics had nothing to do with her sister rosemary. I said, of course it is. I was made the mistake of calling her eunice, you dont do that. It was always mrs. Shriver. Mrs. Shriver, of course rosemary had something to do that. Of course she admitted maybe she did, but you cannot intellectually bring herself to do. But i think the Special Olympics should consider rosemary the cofounder. She should be up there right next to her sister. Brian where does he Eunice Shriver fit in with the family . Laurence she is the second oldest sister. Brian what about one of the men you talk to . Laurence i talked to teddy. Brian how open was see . He . As laurence the tragedies remained an open wound to him his entire life. You bring up his brother and you think we have all had our parents we talk about our parents we felt so much about them. We do not tear up when we hear their name. But when you mention his brother and the loss, it was very hard for him to talk. Very hard for him to talk. When i was due in that book, i also spent not thanksgiving day, but the wednesday evening before thanksgiving, i was invited to a dinner party in hyannisport at the kennedy home with all the Close Friends. My wife and i were the only people who were not Close Friends who were there that evening. It was the strangest thing. Even among intimates, everyone is watching teddy. Whatever teddy once, the they want. Teddy wants, they want. If teddy wants to watch the football game, they watch the football game. And i thought, what a mad way to live . Even in intimacy of your home, people cannot be themselves. Brian why do they trust you . Laurence if people advise me on being a journalist, was the most important thing . To be trustworthy. It troubles me when journalists lie to get information because it comes back to haunt us all. I have had a problem you just have to keep your word. People are shrewd, they are a good judge of people. I also take my interviews as much as i possibly can. When i read a book, i can usually tell where there has been tape recorders or whether people make casual notes and try to remake it afterwards. That saved me from lawsuits. I mean, actually i was sued by judith exner, who was jfks mistress. She sued me because i talked to Peter Lawfords manager who said withad then paid to sleep kennedy when she met him during the president ial primaries. Said, i never said that, she made that up. Thank goodness i had the tape and i quoted precisely what he said, and that really saved me. Brian what happened to the lawsuit . Laurence 400,000 later it was thrown out. This the tragedy of journalism writing books. Yes, there is libel insurance but there is a deductible. That cost me 50,000. We won, it cost me 50,000. Thank goodness the kennedy women was a very successful book. So i can afford the 50,000. It does not matter. There was a stellar reporter who wrote a biography of donald trump, said he was worth 600 million and trump sued. Trump said that was libel is, he was worth billions of dollars. He sued and it was thrown out. He had to come up with the deductible. Trump lost, but trump won in terms of causing trouble for that writer. Brian how many different publishers have you had . Laurence it used to be one publisher forever, that is no longer true. I cannot even count how many i have had. I am now back with a publisher i was with 20 years ago. We are all mercenaries. You go wherever you get the best deal. Nobody is loyal to anybody in america. Corporations are not loyal to you and you are not loyal to them. Same with publishing houses. People move on. Authors move on. Brian you live in washington, d. C. , now and home beach, florida. Laurence i used to hate people who lived in two places. What a jerk they must be. I live in florida partially because i do not like the winter and theres a big tax advantage of living down there. I am not making that much money anymore, it does not really matter. I like to play tennis, like to play yearround. And i work very hard. Really what i do, i can work anywhere. Brian one of the books you have written is a book called the subtitle is under the royal palms, love and death behind the gates of palm beach, which i have read and when i read it i thought, how does mr. Leamer survived living in palm beach . What is the story . Laurence i had never been to palm beach before. Remember the willie smith trial when he was accused of ripping raping this woman in palm beach . A kennedy relative. He was the precursor to oj. There were hundreds of journalists down there and i was one of them. I stayed at a hotel in palm beach. And i thought this is the , strangest place i have ever seen. There is no life. You go in this famous shopping center, nobody is there, nobody in the streets, no bathroom on the beach. There is no place to eat if you want to get a cup of coffee or something. This is bizarre. I thought, im going to get a place here and write a book about it. I got a place i tell this story in the book, we get this condominium and suddenly everybody treats me terribly. They came in, i had a leak and the people came the board members, they would not sit down. No, they would not sit down. They were just incredibly unpleasant to me. I cannot figure out what it was. Christmas rolls around and my wife is the worlds ultimate shopper. And we needed a christmas tree, and she said the only place was Boynton Beach, about 20 miles. We go to Boynton Beach and heres the place we go a guy out of deliverance. This 90yearold guy, toothless guy. He finds a tree for us and the tree is too big to put in the trunk of a car. We have to take the side roads. We are late, we were supposed to go to a dinner party. The parking garage is in the basement of the building. The garage is in the basement of the building. I said, i cannot carry the tree, it is enormous. She said grandpa carried a tree, why cant you carry a tree . Im not grandpa. My wife is 52. She said, i will get it. She takes the tree, hall said off, takes it into the Service Elevator and brings it up. This is a very ritzy building. There are all these people going to parties and heres my little wife carrying this tree down the corridor. Then i realize what it was i am not jewish. They thought i was jewish. I dont blame them because everybody thinks im jewish, ok . But im not jewish. I am a methodist. The reason they were so cruel and they were cruel was because they thought i was jewish. It was a wasp building. Look, palm beach has changed. We have all kinds of people in the building. I am on the board now. It is a different palm beach and a different building. That is in my book, and it is partly about the jewish world of palm beach and the wasp world of palm beach and how they have very little to do with one another. It is one of the good things donald trump did when he bought maralago. He bought this palace in financial hard times. He wanted to build a bunch of big fancy homes on that land. The town would not let them do it, they did not like him. So we had dinner with a jewish lawyer and said we have these wealthy jews coming, most of them cannot do into the country club. If we start maralago, they will all come and join it. That is precisely what happened. Brian we have all heard about maralago. I looked it up, i think is that what is said, sea to lake . What is it . Laurence it is one of the most incredible buildings in america. Marjorie meriwether post , in an erad trump when people thought no one wanted these big homes, trump got it and return it if i had billions of dollars, the lasting the last thing i would want to do on the weekend is hang out with a bunch of wannabes. Wannabes in every way. But they are there with him every weekend. People call, if donald is in town, the place is full. And he wants to be around them. I mean, he wants this is before he ran for president , but even now he does that. It is funny because i had dinner Easter Sunday at trump golf course in west palm. And it is a very fancy buffet that they have. 100 per person buffet. All these fancy cars are out there, very wealthy people. Theyre getting the lobster and the fancy things. I am no better than them and i go get a steak. I looked to my right and there is donald. There is donald trump he wants a hamburger. He is the only person that he gets a hamburger, he gets it cooked until it is charred and he puts an inch of ketchup over the top. I thought, this guy he is a populist in his food, whatever you say about him. Brian have you talked with him . Laurence yes, he was in my book. Brian it starts off, the great donald might have been the son of a wealthy Real Estate Developer but the protestant mogul is the uncrowned king of the new yorkers. Laurence yeah. I mean it in his flamboyance, he is it. Brian why do people want to live the way they do in palm beach, and would you describe why i asked the question . Laurence when i cannot figure out is, if i had that money, i would want the most interesting people around me. What is the point . But it is segregated in terms of its wealth. Now i know somebody who has , earned around 400 million. He does not go down there because he is not wealthy enough. Ok . And so, you look at me and you do not think how much im worth, you do not care how much i were m worth. There they look at you and know precisely how much you are worth so you are on their level. Brian how do you fit . Laurence i do not fit. I am the odd man out. Brian how do they know that . Laurence thanks to my book. My book came out, i was driven my car was driven off the road. The police chief said i should hire security. There is a video on youtube of someone screaming at me about what a they get im. A big it i a. M. I am. The book is the truth. I was astounded that of all my books, that would be the most controversial. Brian kennedy, rush limbaugh, donald trump im sure you can name other people that lived in and around palm beach . What is the draw for these folks . Why does donald trump want to live in that world . Laurence he doesnt want to i wrote a book about Arnold Schwarzenegger. Schwarzenegger was the same way. He could not stand to be alone. Donald is that way, too. So he loves to have these people around there. And he is a wonderful host. I used to go to a chinese buffet in upstate new york. Mr. Trump is a better host the the and that. He would be there at the entrance greeting people. He just likes people in that way, no way around it. Brian what kind of a president would he be based on what you know of his activities in palm beach . Laurence i do not know. I have been writing a novel called victors way. It is the story of a flamboyant new york businessman becoming president of the United States. Brian when did you start it . Laurence a few months ago. I finished it. My editor said it is a terrific novel, terrific, that we do not know if people are going to want to read it next spring. We think when our National Nightmare is over, nobody is going to read about this kind of care or. To. His kind of care this kind of character. Well, it is not a track. It is about the rise of this man. Im not sure where im going to do, whether to send it to publishers. I might just self publish it next month, im debating what to do. It is not just about him, it is Arnold Schwarzenegger is in there. Unique characters. Teddy kennedy is in this book. Brian the Arnold Schwarzenegger book was 2005 . Was that before or after he left he had to leave his wife . Laurence before. I knew about his womanizing but not that. Brian how much time did you spend on the schwarzenegger book . Laurence two years. Brian and you did not know he had a child by the woman who worked at the house . Laurence nobody did. Believe me, if i knew it would be in there. Brian what was your reaction when you first heard it . Laurence i was stunned. But then people would say about other things. His closest friend was telling me the story when he ran, the before there was a scandal about all these women and how we like he liked to touch their breasts. And he was denying this. Maria said you can either believe me or the l. A. Times. The california people believed him. His close friend said that arnold called him and said, well this is just ridiculous, it is not true. I like to to touch their breasts. If he said i liked to touch their butts, id have a problem, but they didnt say that. That is why he was drawn to this woman. Brian why is the clip drawn to these people . Laurence it comes with them. It hurts them i mean, i mean it is obvious that certainly i think bill clinton would be going down in history as a great president if not for monica lewinsky. That hurt him dramatically. Brian how political are you . Laurence i try not to be that political. Brian i saw you on cspan when you announced that you were a liberal democrat. Laurence yes. But i try not to this novel i have written is not a liberal democrats book. I try to keep it look, the kind of journalism that you and i represent is pretty much gone. The kind of who, what, where. I was Columbia School of journalism class of 1969. The way we were taught to write, what was considered objective and fair. My old professor was of that school. If he saw the New York Times, he would die. If he saw the front page of the New York Times or the washington post. He would not believe it. When i read the newspapers, i am editing. You cannot say that, you should not say that. Let the reader decide. But that is gone. Brian why . Laurence if you want to be a journalist, if you want to be successful, you have to have an edge. If you want to go on television, you want to go on his cable networks, you better have an edge one way or the other. Forget it. If you try to be fair or in the middle, forget it. They do not want you. Brian have you developed an edge . Laurence not enough. A few years ago, it was ted kennedys birthday and i got a call from bill oreillys producer to talk about ted kennedy. And i said, sure, that would be great. They said we want you to talk negatively about him. I said, why do i have to use the negatively . They said, because we have someone speaking pos