It featured profiles of seven american icons were control freaks, from Thomas Jefferson to steve jobs. These were people with character disorders that had difficulty relating to other people but were amazing movers and shakers. And i wrote a chapter on jefferson. And jefferson, of course, is americas most articulate proponent of freedom and most articulate enemy of tyranny. But with his own daughters, he was a control freak. He told them what to do, what to wear. So here he is, and jefferson also was an amazing politician. We all know how brilliant he was. But in the election of 1804 he 74 of theed by vote. It brought up the question of how one leads a nation and how one leads a family. Jefferson was a great visionary thinker and a great leader, but as a dad, soso. He also neglected his daughters a little bit. When he goes to paris, he sticks them at a convent school. One of his daughters famously had to be shepherded from london when she comes to visit him in paris. And so this question of how one leads a nation and how one leads a family sometimes there is a big disconnect between the public and the private man. Another example would be franklin roosevelt, who was a great communicator. Whatever ones politics, he was one of the great president s of the 20th century. He got us through the great depression, the nazis. The gives us through most of the war with japan. He gets us through most of the war with japan. Most americans feel when he dies in april 1945, as if they have lost a father. But with his own kids, he is kind of distant. His own kids literally hold him up. Remember, fdr gets polio in 1921 and his comeback in 1924, he is leaning on his son, james. And whereas fdr as president kind of holds up the nation, his relationship with his kids is topsyturvy and his kids take care of him at various points in his life. So his kids kind of hold him so he can hold the nation. Another president of the same mold, perhaps the 20th centurys republican president , ronald reagan. Like fdr, great communicator, great, inspiring leader. Got americans to feel great at about themselves. But with his own children he was also very distant and this came out when nancy reagan died repu, earlier this year. A lot of the commentary was about their terrific marriage. And they had this amazing bond. But the bond often left their children feeling excluded. That was sort of the governing thesis of the book. It was i wanted to look at how one leads the nation and how one leads a family. And sometimes, the president is the same in public and in private. John adams was an authoritarian president , he gave us the alien and sedition acts in 1798. If they spoke about his administration he wanted to go after them. He was also what i called a tigerdad. Borrowing that with amy from jail who came up with tiger mom. Yale came up with tiger mom. He really was very tough with his kids in very authoritarian. He tells john quincy, his eldest, you will either be president or be a failure. John quincy lives up to the challenge, but his two brothers do not do so well. The struggle with alcoholism. Adams would be an authoritarian president , an authoritarian dad. Truman was a connector as both a president and a dad in the same way that obama i think as a is a connector as a president and a dad. I describe both obama and truman as nurturing dads. Margaret truman once described herself as a total daddys girl. And obama, whatever everyone thinks about his politics, most americans are very proud that he has read all seven volumes of harry potter to malia. And he is a connector. And obama and truman both of the get the same kind of criticism, that they are too soft. Republicans have been criticizing obama for giving away the store to the iranians. Herman have that same criticism, for men had that same truman had that same criticism, that he was too soft in his decisions. But his public self was very similar to his private self. I think that is also true with obama. Brian 43 men have been president. 153 children . Mr. Kendall that the legitimate children. Brian im not. Five president s had no children. He most children born to anyone legitimate 15. What about the five that did not have any children . What impact did it have on them and the presidency . Mr. Kendall the first, George Washington, that was very significant in our history. Because washington writes in his first draft of his first inaugural, he never actually says it, but he says something to the effect of you can trust me, americans, because i dont have any biological children and is therefore there is no danger i will pass on the reins of power to a child. The last thing we wanted in the because 1780s was a monarch. Americans seem to the dynasties, to hate dynasties, to this day. I wrote an oped a year ago when jeb bush announced and i think some of jeb bushs problems had to do with his hatred of dynasty. Washington was one. Washington actually was a very sweet dad. And washington is an interesting case because he had a very critical mother. This comes out the argument that runs sure now ron churnow lays out his terrific biography, that washington had a very difficult mother. He developed a sense of control as a child. That became his sense of control and decorum as a leader. He said to himself, i will not be the lousy parent i had. His father died when he was about 14 and he decided to be very sweet. And really makes an effort with marthas children. He is a nurturing dad. Not quite as gifted as a parent because it did not come naturally to him, he kind of worked at it. But nothing truman and obama, naturally. Because they had a lot of support as children, they were very nurturing. So washington is one case. Another, james polk did not have any biological children. Another case is james buchanan. James buchanan is our only bachelor president. This new biography i read about in the works that is going to argue that buchanan was gay, and that seems to check out. But buchanan adopted his niece. Harriet lane. So, the five who did not have biological children all adopted children. So you can see from those relationships, as with washington, you can get a sense of what they were like as family leaders. And i guess what is so interesting about children as opposed to wives, his obvious because obviously you can tell something about character, a in how way man interacts with his wife. But the children are really powerless. Women, it is certainly is more of an equal relationship. Maybe not so equal in the 18th century. But children just have they are really at the mercy of their parents. What can they do . You get a sense of how a president treats someone who is powerless. A really interesting example was james garfield. You know, president in 1880. End of the book starts, the prologue starts with garfield the book starts, the prologue starts with garfield andi was so moved by how sensitive he was to his boys. The book starts in july of 1881, garfield is about to go to the 25th reunion at Williams College with his two sons were about to start at Williams College. He is jumping around the bed with them and singing gilbert and sullivan songs with them. And you just have a sense he is attuned to what his children were feeling. And garfield also had tremendous empathy to africanamericans. And he really in his inaugural, he wanted to make that a centerpiece of his administration. And then sadly, that day he goes to Union Station a few blocks from here and gets shot. He dies a couple months later. And of course, jim crow stetson sets in and Race Relations are horrible for the next 80 years. And if you have been watching the news this summer, Race Relations are still in not great shape. Had noWarren Harding children. But tell the Warren Harding story. Mr. Kendall his wife had a child and he also had some grandchildren. And he never was seen with those grandchildren. So, he had some grandchildren through his wife like washington. Washington was very proud of taking care of his grandchildren. Harding, no one knew about it. Harding, i have a chapter in the book called double dealing dads , dads with illegitimate children. And harding is one of the wellknown examples. He had a mistress, a young woman he was in his 50s when he was president. He had a young woman from ohio in her early 20s and they were having a sexual relationship. No one knew about it and the first inkling came in 1928, five years after his death, when she writes a memoir. No one believes her. She said the president father add fathered her daughter. No one believes her. A joe manchin. Menkin. The rest of the Mainstream Press says, no way. In the 1960s, a harding biographer stumbles upon love letters that harding wrote to another woman. Those letters were recently released by the library of congress. Then people say, if he could carry on with this other woman, nann britton, maybe there was something to her allegations. Then last summer, ancestry. Com performed a testing and she was telling the truth. Brian how long do they all live and how long did Kerry Phillips live . Mr. Kendall Kerry Phillips lived about 20 years after hardings death. Nann britton lived until pretty recently. Brian how close to the oval office to the harding love affair get . Mr. Kendall if you want to go for details, i think it was sex in the coat closet. Brian of the oval office . Mr. Kendall yes. And he does not leave the daughter any money in his will, and that is why she writes the book. And then the Harding Family says she is a money grab her. Grabber. But the evidence does seem to check out now especially with the dna. Brian how many interviews did you do with ancestors or people who knew something about these president s . Mr. Kendall right, so i do 18 of the president s in depth. I have six chapters. Four illegitimate children children, eache chapter i focus on three president s with illegitimate children. I focus on harding, Grover Cleveland, 1884. Then tyler. John tyler who apparently had lots of slave children. I do 18 president s in depth. And before the in many of those cases i spoke to descendents. For instance, john tyler, he is born in 1790 and i spoke to his grandson, which is amazing. So his grandson was born in 1928. Brian did you say his grandson now has alzheimers . Mr. Kendall yes. I spoke to him about three years ago. The reason for that huge age discrepancy has to do with the theme of that chapter, that tyler was a lusty fellow and he was having children when he was about 70. One of tylers sons was having children when he was 70, and that was when harrison was born. Brian let me quote something you used from a professor. At the university of richmond, darrell. A professor of english. You say that tyler often boasted about having fathered a staggering total of 52 children with black women over the course of his life. Did you happen to talk to darrell . Mr. Kendall i interviewed darrell dans and she has written a book quoting a lot of presentday tylers presentday people who claim to be tylers. Based on oral histories. In that chapter i lay out the the and, i think, circumstantial evidence which is pretty compelling. I also have a photo of one of the black tylers who looks a lot like tyler. So i think the tyler allegations are kind of where the jefferson allegations were a generation ago. Now, there is some dna evidence, but until Annette Gordon reed the harvard professor, started writing her terrific books about sally hemmings, most journalists and historians poopooed that. About jefferson having illegitimate children. And i think there was compelling circumstantial evidence about jefferson. So i make the argument that the tyler case meets the same theres a lot of circumstantial and that there may one day be dna evidence. It seems like of all of the chapters, his life was extraordinary. 15 children. How did that divide up between wives . And those were illegitimate children. Mr. Kendall i make a joke that that was the most fetile election in history. Because you have 15 children. Allegations that he, and i just report, there are allegations that he was from he may have had four black children. 10 from harrison and 15 from tyler from two marriages. Eight from his first wife, 7 from his second wife. His first wife, but tshirt, ins in 18 letisha, dies 1842. Then he marries a beautiful woman 30 years younger with an hourglass figure in 1844, julia tyler. And then he goes on to have seven more children with her. And the allegations about public children go back 30 about the black children go back 30 years. Because tyler was already in his 50s. Brian how much of these former president s having children by black slaves, in most cases, is new information . Mr. Kendall like i said, the jefferson is wellknown but the other president s, it is not wellknown. What i found was so interesting, is that Martin Van BurensVice President and this is not wellknown Martin Van Buren is president and his Vice PresidentRichard Johnson had black children, and that was known in the 1830s. And johnson was eventually kicked off the ticket in 1840 because of opposition. But, so i think, as i quote one of tylers alleged slave children who told a newspaper in the 1840s, such things happen on plantations, referring to the birth of the slave master slave masters having children with black women. And i think, you know, it was not as rare as we think today. Brian from your book, in 1845, administration an administration critic accused the president of staging wild sex parties with his two would build sons, robert and john junior, both of whom worked as president ial aides. Again you are talking about john tyler. What kind of a person was he . Mr. Kendall john tyler was a very tempestuous person. And i argue that i guess, so this is the chapter on i e billing dad, and double dealing dads, and i focus on harding, tyler, and Grover Cleveland. An argument that runs through that is that these were all compartmentalized men, and often men who have affairs are that way. In fact, both cleveland and harding had dual personalities. Cleveland refers to himself as having two personalities grover the good, who was the politician and cleveland is considered a decent president , in the top half of a lot of president ial polls. He had grover the good, and big steve. He was known in buffalo as a womanizer and a drinker. Harding had dual personalities. He even had a name for his member, he called it jerry. Jerry was the kind of sexual side of harding that had the affair with Kerry Phillips. Brian did he use that word in his relations . Mr. Kendall he would use that word privately. Jerry, he would use that name. Tyler, i did not come up with evidence of a second name, but very compartmentalized. Be the a southern gentleman but he also had an aggressive side. When he was in grade school, he bound and gagged a teacher. I wrote a piece comparing it to donald trump. Donald trump punched out his third grade music teacher. And that donald trump, you may remember, that he went to military school and had behavioral problems. Tyler was a little like that. So tyler was very compartmentalized. He could be a southern gentleman. And with his children it was, do as i say, not as i do. And i brian and those were his children we are talking about . Mr. Kendall yes. And i try to relate the parenting to the politics. For instance, Grover Cleveland had an illegitimate child that he really had nothing to do with, and i argued that he kind of betrayed that child. But Grover Cleveland had grover the good and was compartmentalized. But as a president , he was quite solid. Whereas tyler, he kind of betrayed the black children, and any since the betrayed the country. And in a sense he betrayed the country. When the civil war starts, we have five expresident s and tyler is the only one who signs up for the confederacy. He is going to be in the legislature of the confederate house of representatives. And lincoln cant stand tyler come even though lincoln was a whig in the 1840s. Tyler is the only president whose death was not mourned. Lincoln refused to have a day of mourning. Some of his kids were out of the well. Mr. Kendall kids were out of the will. Family,all his first letisha, he left them out of his will. I argue he kind of betrayed his country and had this penchant for betraying his kids. At the same time, what is so interesting about tylers he was kind of a wheeler and dealer and got some things done. His biggest economic was getting us texas. He was kind of a trickster. So i guess what im really interested in looking at fathering is trying to capture the complexity of human beings, and fathering is kind of a way into character. We tend to think that this is a bad guy or this is a good guy, but you see that a lot of these men who had been president had different parts. They were compartmentalized and some can be very laudable and some could be disappointing and horrified us. Brian we will come back to it in a moment, but where you live . Mr. Kendall boston. Brian what do you do . Mr. Kendall author. Brian fulltime . Mr. Kendall yes. Brian when did that start . Mr. Kendall this is my fourth. Biography. I have been writing one every two years. Brian what did you do before that . Mr. Kendall journalists. I wrote on health care for business week. I freelanced, a lot of health and science. Brian did you grew up in boston . Mr. Kendall manhattan. Brian where did you go to college . Mr. Kendall yale. Brian and i think i see a reference to you doing some lecturing at yale. Mr. Kendall i have a small affiliation with my college i spent a lot of time researching at yale. That kind of reconnected me with my alma matter. Because to research webster i had to spend time in new haven and find out what it was like in the 1770s. Brian what led you into writing in the first place . Mr. Kendall i guess maybe, just to say a little bit more about my biography as a way into it, this book is dedicated to my own father. My own father was kind of a tigerdad. And i really relate to John Eisenhower, ikes kid. And my father was i recently wrote a piece in slate about my father because his history was amazing. My father was a secret nazi jew. My father was born in romania in 1925. And in the night scenes my grandfather was a soldier in world war i and austria, saw some antisemitism and decided to convert. The nazis marched in, and he served in the nazi army as a jew. That was kind of the safest place for him to