Officials who give their papers to the library of congress, with restrictions that keep them from the public for as long as the family wants, and it was the library and of congress that made the arrangement with Caspar Weinbergers family or maybe with him personally, that they and the suntricted would determine caspar who would be able to view them. I was surprised but i have learned through my friend, that it is a usual thing. That maybe you would put personal papers and a situation like that, what not papers related to your position as secretary of defense or secretary of state. Brian lamb what difference does that make to you in this book . Sally denton i think it would have created a treasure trove of documents for me relating to his role as secretary of defense, and i was looking specifically for his relationship, and the sentencing memoranda for the Jonathan Pollard case. Brian lamb how does that relate to your book . Sally denton Jonathan Pollard has been spying for israel, as he had,ow know, and among the things he had given 1985,raelis back in evidence of American Companies building chemical plants in the middle east for israels enemies and Caspar Weinberger became very interested in making sure that pollard did not get an easy sentence. Brian lamb you say the nsa was not helpful or forthcoming . Actually an it is Economist Agency within the department of energy, and it is in charge of the maintenance of the Nuclear Weapons laboratory, which figures commonly in my book. Brian lamb why . Sally denton bechtel, the company im writing about manages most of the Nuclear Weapons complex at this point. I was focused primarily on Lawrence Livermore, the weapons lab. Brian lamb bechtel is what . Sally denton bechtel is the first major Multinational Company from the American West which is why it interested me because i am from the west, fourth generation nevada and and and i grew updan in the town that was their signature project way back in the 1930s. Bechtel is the quintessential Multinational Company that is involved in all aspects of construction and engineering throughout the world. Brian lamb how cooperative was bechtel with your project . Sally denton i didnt really, i initially contacted bechtel early on when i was first researching it and they directed me to the company website. I had actually been there before i had it written my book proposal to simon schuster, so i was familiar with the website, but they directed me to the online press kit, and then when i got i found that everything i needed was not only available on the website, but there were three corporate histories that , dating backnsive through several generations, so between that i did not really need any more from the corporate spokesperson. Media, i did apply for a fellowship at the hoover institute, which is where i had been for my previous two books, specifically with the interest of interviewing both Stephen Bechtel junior and George Shultz , an executive and i was denied that fellowship. Brian lamb why . Sally denton they said it was because my project did not relate closely to any of the scholars there, and i could not imagine a book project that was more relevant to the hoover verytute which is supported, longstanding support from the bechtel family and Henry Kissinger was also there at the time who had been a bechtel consultant. Is noted, if this book relevant, i will never write a book that is, apparently. Brian lamb is George Shultz still attached to hoover . Sally denton yes. Brian lamb lets go back when he was confirmed in joe biden is in the chair during the confirmation hearing. Joe biden are you going to go back to bechtel . I have no plans, have given no thought to what i will do. Me tell you why i asked, there have been a number of questions on my colleagues who have done a lot of research on bechtel and its relationship with the arab world and everyone is aware of the saudi policy among whom they deal with, if they deal with the israelis. If in fact you were, some are going to suggest to do that if in fact you are required to take the position in the interest of the United States of america that was viewed as being very supportive of israel and against the interest of saudi arabia, that you might very well the reluctant to do so because you would know that that would prevent you from ever being able to resume a position at bechtel. Oh no. I do not have any such concern in my mind at all. Brian lamb that was 1982. There is a lot in there that i want to ask you about. He became secretary of state until 1989. Did he ever go back to bechtel . Sally denton he went immediately back to bechtel and remains there, quite elderly. He went immediately back and was an active participant in the Company Since then. Brian lamb does that make a difference to you . Sally denton you know, this is not a, i think what the main thrust of this book and what was surprising to me, this is not a gotcha story. This company is particularly interesting because it is one of the largest privately owned companies, not the same transparency that other public corporations do. I think that that kind of the weinberger that revolving door has become common so it does not seem unusual anymore. At the time, it was really the beginning of, i would argue that bechtel created the revolving door, that there was never a company more integral with the u. S. Government. D mean, the cooling off perio that is standard, it is almost a joke. Nobody pays attention anymore. The lines are so blurred, to see joe biden, senator biden talking about that at that time, i cannot imagine that even being a discussion these days. It is so rare on capitol hill for someone to question a nominee about his corporate ties. Brian lamb George Shultz, secretary of labor, director of office of management and budget, executive Vice President at bechtel, president and director of bechtel, secretary of state, director and senior counsel at bechtel. Is he still on the board . Sally denton i dont know. Another thing relating to the board of directors and shareholders, all of that you have to take it face value because they are not required to file anything with the Security Exchange commission or shareholder reports. What his relationship is or his familys relationship is is not declared. Brian lamb on weinberger, secretary of defense, chairperson of the federal trade commission, Vice President of general counsel, secretary of defense. You focus a lot on both weinberger and George Shultz in the book. Tell us why. Sally denton not really. Byt think i focus focus a lot on that era, the reagan revolution as it relates to the expansion of bechtel throughout the world, the expansion of the American West as a power center, and so reagan coming, both men, as you have said had been in the next and administration also a California Political figure, but the theme of the book beginning with the hoover dam was really the first ct, the creation of a publicprivate development that made california possible, made the american southwest possible. Focus on, it is really just a few chapters of that era, but the reagan era for me really represented a shift in economic power to the west. It was the sagebrush rebellion, much of what we see now going on , the impulseundy underneath the surface came to the forefront during the reagan revolution. Bechtelto tap executives to come into the cap net was really, i think, newsworthy. Brian lamb before we go on with the bechtel story, one time in your life you work for Jack Anderson. Sally denton i sure did. Think, i haved, i some things you said about him, but before i get to that, why did you work for him and when did you work for them . Sally denton i worked for him in 1977 and 1978. I had been with a local newspaper in northern new mexico, and was just starting out in journalism and had had a series of explosive stories about the young women tied to drug conspiracies, and jack brought me to washington as an intern initially and then hired me as a staff reporter. Brian lamb how long did you work for him . Sally denton i think i was there close to two years. After that i went to kentucky. Brian lamb you write, like all great morals, Jack Anderson had feet of clay. Businessd into partnerships with nefarious characters, squandered an empire that by all rights belong to the public trust, protected sources were manipulating him, allowed his ego to dictate his judgment and abandoned those who were most devoted to him. Sally denton when i arrived there, he was legendary. Most people do not even know who he was. I grew up, my father was a lawyer to the publisher of the Las Vegas Sun for many years, was jackpearson, who andersons project, he had been it joey involved when mccarthy was taking him on and he was trying to get hank indicted for murder. There was a longstanding relationship between two or pearson, Jack Anderson, washington merrygoround column and las vegas, nevada. When i arrived here, when i arrived in washington to work for jack, he was in the 1000 newspapers. We had Good Morning America three days a week, mutual broadcast radio five days a week. It was a wonderful empire and i was just thinking the other day, it was astounding for the interns. We had every week, there would fromge gunnysack mailbags people all of the country saying, you need to come to my town and look at the corruption here, my city council, my county commission, my governor is corrupt. It was so rampant, it was stunning. In the end when i say he squandered it, there was so much talent when i was there. Clark mullen health, james , it was awas hotbed of journalistic minds when a journalism was respected, on the forefront of investigative reporting, on the heels of watergate. It was really heavy stuff, and jack was unable to really relinquish any control to any of the talent that was there and he was just hanging on and hanging on and ended up losing all of had many of the papers he as syndication fell apart. It was just a sad relinquishment, i thought. Brian lamb i cannot find this one, but it seems i read somewhere where you may have been critical of bob woodward. Sally denton i dont think so. Brian lamb lets go back to the book, the profiteers. What was the original title . Sally denton the original title was but he missed behemoth. The whole book change. And myup in boulder city first started exploring this book, i had done a cover story for science and Technology Magazine on the 75th anniversary of the hoover dam and i left boulder city in 1970 and was going home to visit family, i had not been back. When i started looking at bechtel as a book project, i had no idea they had gone on for five generations and expanded throughout the entire universe, basically doing asteroids. Behemoth. T once i got deep into the research, four years of research and writing, once i got deep into the research, there was a quote from the gao about the profiteering, i cannot remove or the exact quote, but never before have there been so much money made by so few men at the taxpayer expense, and i thought this was more about profiteering than it is about anyone company. Brian lamb have they ever done anything illegal . Sally denton i dont think so. That is one of the other stunning things, that all of this is legal. [laughter] sally denton this is what i write, that this is not a biography of this family as a as another thing i found going on, the family was really not interesting. They were interesting for what they represented, not for themselves as characters. Aey were representative of larger thrust and philosophy of American Business and american politics and American Foreign policy. Brian lamb where did Stephen Bechtel senior fit in all of the bechtels . Sally denton the company starts with Warren Bechtel who was an oldfashioned American Western. The hoover dam was really his project, his protege. It was called Six Companies, but there were actually a companies. This was a huge hoover project, to channel the colorado, the raging Colorado River to provide water and irrigation and electricity primarily to southern california. With,l got the contract it companies but they called afterlves, Six Companies family. Ese there was no company in the American West that was big enough to tackle this job. They are arguably there was arguably not a company in the east. All of these companies came together to put up the money and to get the bid to build this dam. Brian lamb is kaiser the same one that built the car, the hj kaiser automobile . Sally denton i think so and also the panama canal. Brian lamb here is a video of Stephen Bechtel senior, assuming not alive anymore. Sally denton no. Brian lamb lets watch this. Received considerable press, comments about what would happen. I discussed it with my father. Father had been talking with his friends in the utah Construction Company, and i believe they approached dad and dad talked with henry kaiser who was a partner. About whether we ought to be interested in the investment or not. We knew it was a big job, an important job, new had to be done well. There was a certain amount of expertise that no one had had before. From that group of people that were there, or some of the strongest men in the construction industry. Brian lamb what was he like and how important was he to the building of the company . Sally denton i think he was really significant in taking the company to the next phase. In fact, all of these generations, five generations of bechtel men and they all do that in their own way. His father, warren, died quite young under mysterious circumstances in moscow in 1933, and stephen senior, it is really just even but he names his son stephen, so i designate between senior and junior and others do, too. He is the one after the dam was built, worn did not live to see the warren did not see to live the dam built, and when he died there was a struggle for the bechtel family fortune and company, and stephen, the middle son ended up taking charge. It was his relationship with john mccone, who was a College Classmate from uc berkeley that really signifies his relationship with john maccallum, who had worked for consolidated steel which provided all of the steel for the hoover dam, a massive contract, as you can imagine, wife,so a relative of his john simpson who was Partners Firm shorter schroeder firm in new york. This really launched bechtel from a relatively small, not small but in the American West, huge, but still an American Company and launched it into the International Intrigue leading into world war ii. Ciaecame director of the under john f. Kennedy. Brian lamb how long was he there . Sally denton he was not there very long. Lbj did keep them on for a short time after the kennedy assassination. Brian lamb was he a republican or a democrat . Sally denton he was a republican, although i do not know if that matters. They had all been forged from this radical reactionary anticommunist, russian containment, soviet containment policy that was driving American Foreign policy at the time, and he was very representative of that. Brian lamb why did he leave the cia . Sally denton i am not sure why he left the cia. I did not really go into that. At that time, he had broken, not broken, but it was no longer so i did note, shift much into that, until he goes on to be a director for itt coup ininvolved in the chile. Brian lamb did any of the bechtels serve in government . Sally denton no. Well, they serve on different think tanks, Foreign Policy advisement. I think the junior was on the executive bank or one of the advisory. They are in and out of advisory positions, not really in government. Brian lamb this is a bit tedious but i want to read a paragraph, not the whole thing, just the people have an understanding of the kind of thanks bechtel has been contracted to do. You say, specializing in what it receives 24s, it billion in new contracts during 2013. Its 55,000 employees, most of whom are subcontractors, are divided into different services. Its website lists dozens of signature projects that read like a roundup of every high profile undertaking of the world. The channel tunnel project between britain and france, the court or metrorail in washington dc, the Bay Area Rapid transit system, the san franciscooakland bay bridge. Is that the new one . Sally denton no, that is the old one. Dig, tipb the big oneills big project, speaker of the house and what happened with that . Sally denton i mean, you know, when i started looking at all of iece ind i decided peac construction magazine yesterday on various projects in the world, i cannot keep up with all of these projects and every sing of one of them is a complete ry in and of itself in every single one of them is a complete story in in of itself. There was a book written recently which delves deeply into the project and the kind of things i think are synonymous with bechtel, which is cost overruns, safety violations. The boston gl