the senate finance committee. we expect -- we have live coverage for you over on c-span3 of the senate finance committee. you can also find that online at c-span.org. outside of are also he meeting room in the capitol where house republicans will be gathering, now that they gaveled out. making their way to the meeting room. president trump as we mentioned, expecting to leave the white house shortly. and speak to republicans before that vote, which is expected this afternoon sometime shortly after -- between noon and where house republicans will be gathering, now that they gaveled out. making their way to the 1:00. we hope to have any comments from members, possibly from the president if he makes a statement before or after his meeting, we'll aim to bring that live to you as well. we'd love to hear from you, too, if you're watching the debate. your thoughts on the tax reform debate. here's how to be part of that conversation. democrats use 202-748-8920. republicans, 202-748-8921. and for all others, 202-748-8922. we'll also look for some of your tweets at c-span if you'd like to do that. again they started debate yesterday. the general debate yesterday. and finishing up this afternoon with about a half-hour of general debate. we do expect what's called a motion to recommit. this would be a last chance for the democrats to change the bill. we expect the democrats to do that before the final passage vote this afternoon. of concern for some republicans has been the new york delegation. some of those members, republicans, opposed to the state and local tax deduction provisions in that bill. wanted to show you next a member who supports the bill, in debate from earlier with marcy kaptur, democrat from ohio. we'll show you some of that debate and come back and hear from you on the phone and possibly from members as well. live coverage here on c-span. >> rewriting the entire code. from the bottom up. these issues have been out there for the american people and for the people from across the country to look at, to digest, and now is the time to rise in support of this legislation, mr. speaker. because what we have before you is a new tax code for the 21st century. mr. speaker, we have a tax code that's going to for once in 31 on s put our corporations the multinational level across the world on the multinational level across the world in a competitive position by lowering the rates and getting to a 21st taxing program on the territorial basis. most importantly, mr. speaker, we deliver tax relief. i know the folks on the other side aren't going to agree with this because they are going to say this is a tax for the rich. this is a tax code, tax reform for the rich and almighty 1%. mr. speaker, i have done the math. i have looked at this bill inside and out. it delivers a simplified code where $1,600 is left in the pockets of my constituents in western new york. that's $1,600 that they earned that the government won't have to take from them any more. $1,600, mr. speaker, that will allow them as senior citizens to go visit their grandkids in the south because new york state has driven them out of new york state with its high tax policies at the state capital. that's $1,600 maybe they can go on a trip with their family and experience a little relaxation because of the hard work that generated those moneys and dollars in their pockets. mr. speaker, these are the people that we represent. the perrys. mr. and mrs. perry are hardworking people of western new york. those are their two beautiful children. what's this is going to allow them to do is get a little bit more of their money kept in their pocket so they can spend a little bit more time with their kids and enjoy the fruits of their labor. mr. speaker, and mr. chairman, i know my colleagues on the other side advocate because there is another issue with tax reform i want to highlight real quick. the easy approach of government is to spend more money and develop more programs. and maybe give a little bit in regards to a government welfare check. but what this tax code does and reform does is deliver a job opportunity for these people. and i don't know a better program in america that serves more people than an honest day's work and honest paycheck and honest job. and that's what this tax code will do. with that i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back the balance of his time. the gentleman from texas reserves. the gentleman from massachusetts is recognized. mr. neal: thank you, madam speaker. madam speaker, correction, not one hearing was held on this tax bill. 38,000 people in mr. reed's district will lose the student loan interest deduction. with that i'd like to introduce a real champion of the working class in america, the gentlelady from ohio, marcy kaptur. one minute. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman is recognized for one minute. ms. kaptur: i want to thank the exceptional leadership of ranking member richard neal of massachusetts and trying to fix this horrendous bill. mr. speaker, the g.o.p.-led tax and deficit disaster rewards the big corporations and billionaires. it will accelerate job outsourcing. indeed, 50% of the tax benefits go to the top 1%. this tax scam locks in, get to a 621,500 tax bonus each billionaire in the billionaire class. the top .1 of 1%. do you think they need it? meanwhile, this tax scam raise ed money from the pockets of 38 million middle class taxpayers, likely those caring for their sick relatives or trying to help their kids in college. do you really think the .1 of 1% need more? money trading wall street megabanks like goldman sachs and j.p. morgan. already making billions will get more tax bonuses courtesy of the middle class. this job outsourcing tax bill of the rich, by the rich, and for the rich, well if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck -- mr. neal: additional 30 seconds. ms. kaptur: quacks like a duck it must be a duck. and this duck belongs in a may have h voters thought they were draining in the last election. folks, this bill makes the swamp wider and deeper and the fat ducks will be even may have thought they were draining in the last election. folks, this bill makes the swamp wider and deeper and the fat ducks will be even fatter and happyier in t i urge my colleagues to vote for the middle class not the heading downstairs in the basement of the capitol where the meeting room is set. president trump will be there shortly. leaving the white house right some of as we watch the members come through the hallway. we will continue and hear from you and your calls. 202-748-8920 for democrats. som the members come through the hallway. e will continue and hear 202-748-8921, republicans. all others, 202-748-8922. our cameras are there. any comments from members or the president we hope to bring those to you live certainly on tape. here's newport richie, florida. pat. good morning. go aahead. caller: yes. thank you for taking my call. i want you to know there are a loft people out here that are sick and tired of these democrats and their resist program. resist. we're so sick of that and hearing that word. please get onboard. please work for the american people. and start treating each other with respect. we're disgusted with the lack of respect. and i thank you for taking my call. host: juliette, next up on the independent line. rock port, massachusetts. caller: good morning, c-span. thank you so much for taking my call. i was listening to the hearings morning on the hill, the house of representatives giving their one-minute speeches. i found it rather interesting the inconsistency upon what mor house of representatives giving states get for each middle class tax cut. for instance, one state gets a $1,200. another gets a $1,600. another is a $1,400 tax cut. i'm trying to reconcile that. and moreover, interestingly, that pretty much might sound like a significant amount of money on the whole, if you break it down on a per month basis it's almost negligible. i just got my property tax bill in the mail. it went up $100 this year. per month that is. so it negates the whole being able to take that money and go on a vacation. the way they put up these placards. they show the families in the hey farm or -- hay farm. moreover they just want to raise the price on admission to the national parks to $70 from $25. a lot of middle class families because they can't afford to go overseas and walk the places in france they go to national parks and now the price will be increased. one more quick thing, there was an article in "the new york times," could have been the "wall street journal" or post, but the headline was, that 400 big multinational businesses opted to say no on this tax plan. they don't need it. they have so much money. they are so flush opted to say . in any event thank you for taking my call. you are the best. host: juliette in massachusetts. we're keeping an eye on the hallway downstairs below the u.s. house of representatives. republicans will be meeting ith president trump shortly. believing the white house heading to capitol hill. the president during his believing the white house heading to capitol hill. the president during his 12-day trip to asia, return wednesday and stay in touch with key members of the house and senate. his representatives, garyon, the national economic council director, and also mark short, the legislative affairs director on capitol hill several times meeting with house and senate republican leaders. here's tulsa, ok ork, debra, go ahead. -- oklahoma. debra, go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. we're quietly turning away from the republicans who have let us down terribly. our old people are ending up without assistance. the young and disabled who are defenseless are ending up without assistance. our state is broke. myself, i lived through this trickle-down process twice before and we barely recovered from it before. i don't think we'll recover from it this time. i don't expect for my family to get any kind of tax benefit. being a lower middle class doing the math at home myself, i think we're going to pay more tax. i would urge my representative while they are still in this office to make this vote, to vote no against this terrible plan. thank you very much. host: you are calling from oklahoma. you said your state is broke. has oklahoma raised taxes recently or tried? caller: we have tried to raise taxes on the oil and gas. they should be penalized for all the earthquakes we have been going through. it doesn't seem to be any end to that. host: that's an ongoing issue there? the earthquakes? caller: ongoing. our houses are cracked. cracking and being destroyed. can't fix themselves. some areas it's just repeated earthquakes. there's no resolve through earthquake insurance. it seems for most people. gun here. the our representatives have sorely let us down n my district we just flipped to democrat. because when we had democrats running this state, we had a chance. everybody had a fair chance. we're not getting that -- we just have poor governments right now. be active oklahomans, be smart about who you choose. of course it's always may the best person win. host: appreciate your comments from tulsa here on c-span. we're keeping our eye outside the meeting room in the u.s. capitol. making their way making their way there to hear from president trump who will be leaving the white house shortly. if he hasn't already. the president and what's described as a pep rally before members vote on the republican tax reform plan. about half an hour of debate, general debate left. we expect speaker ryan to make some final comments before the final vote. also the democrats get -- will likely use their privilege of offering a motion to recommit. a chance to change the bill before the final passage. all of that still ahead. we continue to take your calls. engelwood, florida. marsha on our democrats line. caller: hi. thank you for taking my call. a couple things i want to mention to the voting public. i did call my representative, tom rooney, and told him to vote no on this ridiculous bill. as long as the people are going to be voting on a postcard, are the corporations going to be voting on a postcard? if that was to happen, i would be very much in favor of it. but they are going to be keeping deductions, all their loopholes, and everything in place for the people is poison. one other thing i wanted to mention about the corporations. there was a meeting of corporate c.e.o.'s, about 100 of them. they were asked how many of them were going to reinvest all this windfall that's going to result if this tax bill goes through. of the 100 five people raised their hands saying they would reinvest. the rest of them, it's going to them and their stockholders. you like poison bill? this is the poison bill if you haven't called your representative and urged them to vote against it, you are going to be trouble. i'm on social security. i'm looking forward to next year or the year after when they cut my social security and medicare. years old. i will probably die from this. host: how tough was it to get through on the phone to tom rooney's office? caller: wasn't tough at all. but i didn't get to talk -- i talked to a staffer. and she said she would relate the information to him. and this was probably around 5:00 in the evening last night. it wasn't hard at all. host: appreciate your call. go ahead. final thoughts. caller: i have called and them followed up on how responded in his voting. and he still votes with the party. host: appreciate that. marsha from engelwood, florida. next peggy in lake city, colorado, on the republican line. tax reform day in the u.s. house. final vote this afternoon. go ahead. caller: i would hope that everybody would vote for this tax bill. my husband was in the oil fields when obama came on. it killed us. we lost everything. i mean everything. because he pulled all the permits for oil. i hope that the republicans get their way, get this tax bill passed because i make $48,000 a year. and we pay $4,000 in tax a year. this -- it's only for the rich tax cut. that's bull. and i think democrats should be called to accountability for their lying. they lie all the time and no one says -- even on -- i'm watching this whole debate thing. why don't the republicans go, you're lying. that's not what's going to happen. we need this tax reform. the working people of this country don't need a mandate for insurance. if we can't afford insurance, oh, well. we certainly do not have in our constitution, where the government is supposed to tell us to get insurance. that's our personal right. i hope they pass this. i'm sorry new york, that they are going to lose their salt. but you know what? why should colorado pay more in taxes to save california that's a welfare state. i was born and raised in california. i'm sorry that they are they have gone to the dogs. they give more money away than they take in. they used to feed a quarter of the world. now they can barely feed themselves. they can't balance their budget. why do we keep paying taxes to go to california? the welfare needs to be reformed. taxes, if the republicans can grow a spine and get with it, pass this bill, then work on cutting our spending and definitely get obamacare out of definitely close our borders so we can let in whom is good and keep out who is bad. host: thank you, peggy. from lake city, colorado. peggy from colorado. we appreciate that. just saw moments ago kevin brady, the chair of the house ways and means committee, going by the cameras just outside the meeting room in the basement of the capitol where house republicans are gathering one last time to hear from president trump. one last time before the vote, that is, on the tax reform package. we'll continue taking your calls. hearing from you. your comments before the house gavels back in. one of those reporters in that crowded hallway down there is scott wong, senior congressional correspondent with the hill. thanks for being with us this morning. >> thanks for having me. host: one of the headlines on your piece today, the house g.o.p. is set for a big win. has the tone of the debate changed at all in the last couple of days? >> no. it's been actually a relatively quiet week on the house side. given that there's a huge vote on tax reform. the first such vote in about three decades. it truly a historic vote. it's been a very light attitude on the house side from g.o.p. leaders. they appear confident that they have the 217 votes needed to pass this bill. the whip count looks pretty good. steve scalise held a meeting with his whip team just a few moments ago just to make sure they had crossed all their t's and dotted all their i's. we're just about ready to see the president head into this meeting for a sort of pep rally before the big vote. host: you have attend add news conference earlier today where a couple -- republicans members not happy with the bill. several from the new york delegation. of the few republicans that will vote against the bill today, what's their major issue? why will they vote against it? >> this all has to do with their concerns about the elimination of the state and local tax deduction. this has been an issue they have been railing about for a number of weeks. there was a small concession made to these folks from high taxing states such as new york, new jersey, and california. they will receive a -- they will preserve in the house bill a $10,000 property -- state and local property tax deduction. many of these lawmakers, including lee zeldin and peter king, both of new york, have said that doesn't go far enough. and that they will continue to fight for the restoration of . e salt deduction when this bill eventually heads to a house and senate conference committee, if it makes it that far. host: we'll let you go. moment majority leader realizing the president may be on his way. talk about that conference committee, the timetable. the house is expected to pass the bill today ahead of the thanksgiving recess. what about the senate effort? when will they pass their measure or take it up? >> it's unclear a vote has not been scheduled in that chamber yet. really, the house vote represents the first major step for tax reform. and they are currently marking up -- i think they are now in their third or fourth day marking up the senate bill in the finance committee on the other side of the capitol. once it passes that committee, then mitch mcconnell will schedule a vote. of course we're right up against the thanksgiving recess. that's part of the reason why the house has decided to hold this vote today because it will be a big win for them and then they can head home for the thanksgiving holiday and the week-long recess and sell this bill back home to the constituents and have something to brag about, quite frankly. it's unclear if mitch mcconnell will keep his chamber in for any part of the thanksgiving recess. that had been something he had put on the table. of course time is ticking. the president has said he wants this bill on his desk by christmas. host: scott wong of the hill. read more at the hill.com. he's also on twitter there. monks the group of reporters d cameraman as well at the capitol. @scottwongdc, thanks for the update. host: we're live here on c-span awaiting along with the reporters and others for president trump to arrive and speak to house republicans. as we do we'll continue to take your calls and comments. we hear from stacey on the independent line in fredericksburg, virginia. caller: thank you for taking my call. i just think that the entire system needs to be revamped. to push something through that needs this much work and this much knowledge to be put in to and say, well, we want to get it done before we all dis burst for the holidays, but let's push it through. it hurts regular we cares if americans. most of the people on the hill are millionaires and have no idea what a person like me goes through every day. i am the parent of a child with special needs. he has autism, bipolar, and turret's -- tourette's. every day he's an unknown. for anybody to even mention any kind of cut to medicaid, medicare, any kind of benefits he would need, it's shameful. no matter where the cuts are going to be, none of these people care that someone like who survives day to day trying to make sure my son has the medication he needs. my son has the type of food that he needs. many of his supplements are not covered. many of these therapies for kids like him are still not covered. there are no adult services as he transitions into adulthood. and they are quibbling over things that -- i can't understand and don't care to understand. host: let you know where things stand at this hour. the house is mainly done with the debate on the house republican tax reform plan. they still have about a half-hour of general debate. you have seen members going by reporters and others here in the basement of the capitol. president trump we understand has arrived at the capitol. and in fact a live shot here we may see him coming down to meet with members shortly. and we will stay here live on c-span. the president will speak to the house republican conference and the house itself will gavel a half-hour bout more of general debate. all of that ahead and all of it live here on c-span. there's the president a and we' watch. > mr. president. >> mr. president -- >> mr. president -- host: staying live here on c-span now to the basement of the capitol. house members -- house republicans will be hearing from president trump shortly. we will continue with your phone calls and comments momentarily. host: president trump arrived at the u.s. capitol a few minutes ago. a live look here at the basement of the capitol. republicans are gathering, house republicans gathering to hear from president trump. as they prepare for the final passage vote coming up this afternoon on the house republicans' tax plan. the president will speak to members. when the house gavels back in, there is a half-hour of general debate left. we expect to hear from speaker ryan and democrats' fenal chance to change the bill as in their motion to recommit. let's get a couple more calls as we go to southampton, new york. mary ellen on the democrats line. caller: hi. thank you for taking my call. i liveing on long island. the very east end called the hamptons. so of course i'm very happy that my congressman, lee zeldin, like so many other people worried about taking away the local and state taxes. i'm very disappointed in, after carefully reviewing everything nd watching, is how few people the ver mentioned, ok, johnson amendment. no longer having separation of church and state. or this unborn child at any stage of development are considered beneficiaries. they can be a write-off. -- there are so many things in this bill, ok. that nobody seems to be relating to. sadly, too, i mean, student loans being cut off. for deductions. i mean how many children can afford that? ok. it's very disturbing, too, that companies that are offering higher education to their employees, that will be cut off and now will be deemed -- these children will have to pay taxes when the companies were trying to give it for free. therefore they are being taxed on their education. i don't understand, ok, of -- i'm do not believe very appalled that also nobody has mentioned how they try to the in repealing individual mandate on obamacare. host: that's certainly part of plan.nate we're going to take you momentarily to the senate finance committee. let's get one more call on our republican line. from marion, ohio. this is frank. caller: hi. how are you. host: fine, thank plan. we're going to take you. caller: i'm calling in because the democrats i have been listening. these democrats are just fear mongering over this tax. -- tax cut. we live paycheck to paycheck. we could use this tax break. and i think they just need to cool their jets, sit back, and rake in the money. host: that it? caller: yes. that's it. host: all right. frank, we appreciate that. thanks for all your calls. we hope to get more of them in just a little bit. we have a tweet here of the room. president trump, sean duffy, of wisconsin teeth tweething president trump there before the house republican conference just moments ago. that meeting apparently under way. here on c-span we will try to bring you any live comments from members as they leave that meeting. they are in the meeting now. we expect that the house will gavel back in. there is a half-hour of general debate left. more ahead. we'll have that live of course, here on c-span. as we mentioned any live comments we hope to take you there live. meanwhile in the senate the meeting for a ee fourth day for their review of the senate republican tax reform plan. you heard a caller mention one of the items in meeting for a i the end of the individual mandate in health care law. we'll show you this hearing live under way now. as much as we can until the house gavels back in or until we hear from house republican leaders. >> then what happens in 2027, is he not going to see a 25% increase in his taxes? >> it depends, 25% for a specific individual depends on the specifics. >> not somebody -- not a single mom. this is a young entrepreneur in dallas, texas, trying to make things -- am i misreading any of the charts? >> the only clarification i was trying to make, senator, is that the specifics -- when you say a single individual, entrepreneur, $29,000 in ncome, that's one of many -- millions of people in different circumstances. the total we report there is the aggregate change in tax. senator warner: the point being we created an example that says, the sing many mom that's struggling with three kids. as you pointed out, she's not going to have tax liability. if you have a 25.4% blended increase on that cohort, then someone, i was just trying to pick an example that would seem to have the least amount of other deductions, is going to see a big hit. >> this would reflect, maybe to precise, this reflects in the chairman's modification, there are the choice -- there is the modified indexing. so that means that the tax brackets, values of the personal exemption, which would be back in effect under present law because of the sunset, that they are lower than they would be under present law. senator warner: i don't want to use the chairman's time. we can all show examples. i precise, think you're the ref. i think we have to count on the referees. my last point, mr. chairman, briefly, is just that if we're going to end up, and you have made the point and unfortunately since i have been here we have done this and i remember a few years back, i want to give you and the ranking member credit, i thought we were going to vote on the final time of extenders. well, we have created a whole new bucket of extenders by this gimmicks being used. not my words, the committee response for federal budget. i want to introduce, if i could, into the record, their analysis which this group, most of us on both sides have say that this added to the debt is about $2.2 trillion. when you presume that when these popular benefits expire, to to extend them. and we ought to be straight with the american people. adding $2.2 trillion. that includes the additional interest charges that. is, i believe, a much more accurate number of say that thi what we're doing. >> your time is way expired. let me call on first senator toomey then senator portman. senator toomey: thank you, mr. chairman. my colleague from virginia, i don't think anybody here is suggesting that people are not going to make rational choices. people make rational choices. what i'm pointing out is the bizarre anomaly of the way we require joint tax to account for them. that's what's so misleading about what you guys are alleging here. senator from michigan seemed to suggest that every iteration of this is getting worse. these iterations are getting better and better for working families, middle class, and in every cohort. so, let me ask you a couple questions if i could. to focus on taxes that people actually have to pay. not payments that the federal government makes to insurance companies. so let's not focus on payments that my colleagues are absurdly suggesting is a tax increase. if you look at the actual taxes that are actually paid by human beings, and i look at the chart that was produced on november 11, i see reductions in every single cohort. every income cohort. let's take, for instance, the $20,000 to $30,000 cohort. that number on my sheet here is a 7% average reduction. in taxes. do you see that? >> which year? senator toomey: 2023. >> the senator's referring to jcx 53 which was the distribution analysis for the underlying chairman's mark. yes. in the 20 to 30,000 we had the total taxes collected attributable to that income group would fall by 7%. senator toomey: right. and it falls in all the brackets. 53-17 which of jcx was the distribution of the chairman's mark before the modification. nator toomey: which simply illustrates contrary to what we have been hearing every middle income tax cohort has a tax cut on average. then, again, putting aside the payments that the federal government makes to insurance companies, which are ridiculous to consider taxes, i know you ran a southwest numbers exclusive of that dynamic. -- you are the numbers exclusive of that dynamic. 2023, the joint committee on taxation, november 16, 2017, d-17-52. >> yes, senator toomey. you and the chairman had asked if we could distribute the effects of the mark as modified bsent the zero rated individual mandate penalty. senator toomey: right. when you look at the $20,000 to $30,000 income cohort, the average savings now is not the 7% it was before, but it's 9.5%. >> that's correct. senator toomey: every single cohort has a larger savings which is to say a bigger tax cut under this more recent version than the previous version, right? >> that's correct. senator toomey: contrary to what our friend from michigan said -- senator warner: do we have this document? i'm trying to follow it? i don't believe we do. >> senator toomey, it was not a public document. you had requested it. i'll have it provided to all the members. senator toomey: i had no idea this was not being distributed. i put it on a chart. this is how big a secret i wanted to keep. senator warner: my eyes are not as good. senator toomey: my glasses work well. ill happy you. the fact of the matter is what we have done in the latest ersion is further reduce -- no mystery about how. what are some of the devices that were used to further reduce the tax burden for middle and working class families? for instance, did we increase the child tax credit? >> in the chairman's mark as modified you increased the tax $2,000. om $1,of 50 to senator toomey: any other changes? >> also changed the original mark had tack brackets of 22 1/2%, $2,000. senator toomey: any 25%, 32 1/2 the middle brackets. each of those you reduced to 22%, 24%, and 32% respectively. senator toomey: we lowered rates on working and middle income families. we increase the child tax credit for these families. and that's why unsurprisingly the tax burden in this iteration is lower still. a bigger savings for middle income families. >> senator portman. senator portman: thank you, mr. chairman. if i were watching this from the real world, not from this podium, i would wonder how this all squares because we're hearing very different messages. let me just make one obvious point, i hope. when the ranking member, senator wyden, and recently nator warner, talked about 2027, which is 10 years from now, and what the effect is going to be on middle class families, they are talking bout after the proposal is sunset. and so senator wyden went to page 6 and talked about 2027 and said that he was concerned that taxes went up for individuals. yeah. hey go up because the tax cuts that we're putting in place with this proposal end. if you're wanching and that we're putting wondering how could both these things be true that there are milled class tax cuts as was just said from today until 10 years from now, butt but somehow 10 years from now taxes go up. that's true. because it's sunset. my friend senator warner talked about the entrepreneur in texas and he referred to the chart of 2027, yeah. that's true. of course the taxes go up cause under the budget rules within which we have to operate here, there cannot be even a penny of deficit as scored on a within which we have to operate here static basis in the second 10 years. so we sunset those tax cuts that are substance between now and then for that individual you are talking about. because of these budget rules. it is true it is true in 2027, the difference you see in these charts, i refer you to the chart that senator wyden asked us to go to, page 6 of jcx-58-17 if you look at that you'll see there is substantial tax relief until that last year, 2027. look at the bottom chart, all taxpayers. is that accurate? there is tax relief until 2027? >> yes, senator toomey. senator portman: senator portman. appreciate the compliment. thank you, john. appreciate i mean tom, sorry. i just -- for the folks in the real world watching this, that's what we're talking about here. now every member of this panel, including the democrats, have the opportunity to strike that sunset. if they want to offer an amendment to say let's not have this sunset, let's not sunset this legislation after 10 years because we want to continue this substantial tax relief that we're providing under this bill, we have the opportunity to do that. on the floor of the united states senate. and it was indicated yesterday that perhaps one of our colleagues is going to do that. and if so, this won't be an issue. the tax relief will continue. but again if i were watching, i would be confused. the other part i might be confused about is this notion that in the lower bracket, 10,000 to 20,000. 20,000 to 30,000, there has been the argument made here that there is a tax increase. that tax increase is because of expiration of the individual mandate as was talked about. let me try to put it as plabely -- plainly as possible. these are people who do shoozerpt senator warner is right. people are rational and they'll make their choices. and the joint committee expirat individual on taxation is supposed to reflect that choice. people will say you know what 'd rather not take this affordable care act health care plan, even though i get a tax credit if i do it, because i'll have other costs attendant to that. some people get more of a premium credit than others. some people will have co-pays. some people have deductibles that are higher. i'm choosing not to take that. the joint committee reflects that as a tax increase. it's a choice by people. not to accept the tax credit because they would rather as a rational human being making a decision not have the other costs associated with that. that's why i just hope as you are watching this and listening what we're saying, it's a decision. policy decision. and i would hope that thele bottom line is recognized. poli. which is that this provides substantial tax relief, particularly to middle class families. and that tax relief is going to be across the board in every single different group of taxpayers as is indicated on these charts, as tom has confirmed time and time again, again today, and that means that the promise that we have made that there will be relief for middle class families that are dealing this stress, higher expenses, flat wages, middle class squeeze are going to get substantial relief. in ohio it's about $2,400 per family at the medium income. thank you, mr. chairman. > thank you. >> going to 2027. creding -- ceding senator portman's point that the individual tax cuts expire there, let's look at what happened in 2027. isn't it true based on the last distribution table that you taxes en us that while go up for people with $100,000 of income or less in 2027, they continue to be lower for $200,000. er >> senator mccaskill, that's correct the total table. can you see the components on page 6 anti-two subtables above. senator mccaskill: the point is, even when the individual goes away, the millionaires are still paying less taxes. folks that make $500 to $1 million are still paying less taxes. it's only the bottom folks that end up paying more assuming these individual rates aren't -- let's look at another diagram, on year 2021, based on the distribution table, federal in, people between 20000 and $30,000 upped the present law pay in $22 million in taxes, $22.5 based on your chart on page two. yet, othing has expired hey pay $22 billion, .5 in taxes now and $3 billion more, correct? >> that's the consequence of predominantly of the change in the premium credit subsidies. senator mccaskill: and c.p.i. for millionaires they are going to pay 671 under the current law and pay 643. they pay $28 billion less in 2021 while people between 20 and 0 have to pay $3 billion more. 2025, it's really stark here. if you add up the numbers of the federal taxes paid by people who make $30,000 or less, they are going to pay $4 billion more in 2025 based on this proposal. total of $4 billion. if you add up everyone who makes more than 200,000, they are going to pay $90 billion. you add up how much taxes, 200 o 500, 889, under this proposal, 500 to a million, 321 billion in taxes. a million and over, 80e now and pay 764 in this proposal. in 2025 and let me make sure i understand this, people making less than $230,000 are going to pay $4 billion in taxes while people who make $200 and over are going to pay less. that's what is wrong with this bill. that's why we are offended at all of these things that are skewed to the people at the top of the income charts. and if anybody is confused about the numbers, i added them up myself and i used to be an auditor. >> thanks for this hearing. listening to the previous speaker, wondering what her point is to make all these rates permanent. if you want to make the individual rates permanent -- >> i would love to work in a bipartisan way. >> anybody on this side that is going to disagree. on want to go on the theme my friend senator portman and watching this on tv and listening to the other side of the aisle argue against themselves, it's pretty fascinating. i listened to my friend from michigan that those less than $30,000 a year will be paying more taxes. and my friend from virginia he agrees that they will not be agreeing to pay more taxes and my friend from missouri and saying under $30,000 we are paying more taxes. what is it? the fact is and i'll tell you what it is, if you are making less than $30,000 under the current tax system, you aren't paying taxes. and under this new tax system that's being presented today, you still won't be paying taxes. know we wear ear plugs around here. but the fact of the matter is he was very upfront and said under the current system if you make less than $30,000 a year today you do not have a federal liability. under the new bill that we have in front of us today and you make $30,000 or less, you still won't be paying additional taxes. maybe i should ask this question one more time, is there anything under this legislation that would prohibit an individual from receiving federal assistance to help them afford coverage? >> senator heller, the chairman's mark makes no changes to credits available under the advanced premium subsidy credit. senator heller: you have a federal liability? >> individuals specific case if we return to senator cornyn's example, none. senator heller: would the same ndividual have a tax bibletd liability. >> i'm getting tired to individuals of those who talk nd make $30,000 or less having their taxes increased. that is absurd and not true. if we could go to other pieces of this legislation, but to continue to beat on that point is literally untrue simply you se you choose, because choose not to take the individual mandate. i can tell you stories after stories back in my state that was hit hard by the recession of individuals that lost their jobs and were told they could pick up unemployment insurance and said by my boot straps, we are going to work hard and find a job. not to take unemployment insurance, none of them believe that their taxes were raised. there is none of them out there. and i have talked to people in nevada that chose not to take unemployment insurance during the depth of the recession. yet everybody on the other side is saying, they got their taxes increased. that's what you are saying. i want to make one other point and thank my friend from virginia for his indoor voice. i thank you for your indoor voice and i hope you will use that as an example of how we can have a decent discussion back and forth. >> a point of privilege if i might for a moment, my comments -- a number of folks have referenced comments. i would like to ask one question given the fact that my comments have been referenced a number of times. senator hatch: i'm going to insist on regular order. senator hatch: the next person up is senator bennett. >> looking at these charts for the record, the new version of the bill gives families earning less than $30,000 a net tax increase $6 billion according to j.c.t. senator bennet: i will clear this up. there was a circumstance where there was a tax increase. look, this is supposed to be a tax bill. it comes on the heels of two attempts to try to repeal the affordable care act. the republicans decided to put health care into this bill. and the result of that is every 13 million people are going to lose their health insurance. speaking of life in colorado, i was in frisco, colorado, where i went to visit the health clinic there in the rural part of our state and i asked what the payer mix. 33% was medicaid. 5 3 was uncompensated care. i said, what is that 53%? they said those are people making too much money to get medicaid but not enough money to get private insurance. they are in the middle of the middle class and those are the people you are taking insurance away. and the reason it shows up in the tax tables is that you are making it harder and harder for them to be able to afford insurance. and with respect to my friend from nevada, and i have a lot of admiration for him, it's not true people are not paying taxes, paying payroll taxes, sales taxes, all of which are regressive taxes. and we could -- you will have an opportunity today to vote for a bill here that recognizes that fact, the bill that i have with senator brown and senator casey that would make a profound difference in the lives of working people in this country especially ones that are raising children. if that is your concern is what i have heard stated today, you have a chance to express that in this vote. but the tax tables that i have seen and i'm happy to be proven wrong, the tax tables i have seen when you add up the state and local taxes that people pay, the payroll taxes that people pay, it's roughly in proportion to what they're earning. so the idea there are a bunch of people in the country that are kind of free loading or might have some opportunity to pay more at the bottom is just incorrect. and i guess i would ask whether it's true that people at this level are paying lots of taxes. i won't even use that characterization, paying state . d local taxes, payroll taxes >> i said federal tax liability. i didn't say they didn't pay federal taxes, but federal tax liability. you have to understand. senator bennet: i understand that. >> there are many taxes levied at different levels of government and at the federal level, income tax, we have payroll taxes, we have some selected excise taxes and many people at the low-income people rchase gasoline, alcoholic beverages. senator bennet: that is federal tax biblet. and i enjoy so much the chance to work with the senator from nevada on our infrastructure subcommittee and i thank the chairman for putting that together. i really think what all this reveals, this argue we're having today between senator toomey and senator warner, all it suggests to me we should go back to regular order and let's have a bipartisan approach to reforming our tax code, to reforming the corporate rate into bringing it down. let's do it together and do it in plain sight of the american people. they would have a lot more confidence in this process if we were doing that, especially with the chairman and ranking member leading it than they will have in the process where the numbers change from day-to-day and the work is done behind closed doors. i yield back 40 seconds of my ime. >> you can continue to watch live coverage on our companion network c-span-3. u.s. house returns we expect in little over 10 minutes to finish up debate on the house republican tax reform plan. they have 17 minutes left for the republicans and final speeches and a final vote ahead. we will hear from you and your thoughts on the tax reform ebate overall on capitol hill. host: we'll take your calls. that meeting with president trump wrapping up a short while ago. congressman bill flores tweeting a photo from that meeting just a short while ago on capitol hill and show that to you in just a moment. we have cameras on capitol hill. there's the tweet from bill flores with a picture inside the room and the president speaking to republicans and the vice president is on capitol hill ahead of the vote this afternoon which we expect to be just after 1:00 eastern. our cameras are on capitol hill and we are outside the center steps in the capitol, possible comments from members and in the basement of the capitol, cameras as well. if members come before the microphones we will bring it to you live ahead of the return of the u.s. ickey in illinois. caller: i think the main problem that people are not understanding so much about what they are getting upset about mostly is about the health part of it. if we bring jobs here there's going to be more people -- well, you know it will be more competitive to start with. people who are working here will stay here. and most companies have insurance. so i would think that that's going to help the situation more than anything. host: individual mandate is removed in the senate version. it's not in the house version. keep in mind, the house will pass their version today, likely pass their version today and senate finishing up work in the senate finance committee and take up their version in the next week or so. beth is in new haven, connecticut. caller: i want to talk about the proposed tax on tuition reduction and i would owe taxes on an additional $40,000. host: what's the tax you figure you'll owe if this house measure becomes law? caller: right now we owe about $3,500 and if h.r. 1, it would be $10,000. host: have you contacted a member of congress or express your opinion to a member? caller: i called my member of congress this morning and all students throughout the school are mobilizing on this. host: thanks for weighing in. let's listen in for conversation in the basement of capitol hill. [indiscernible] >> are you going to change your mind in any way? >> i don't think so. we are still in the negotiation changes and said don't give up. i have great hope. people are going to look at the thing in different perspectives. and ought to look at how it affects the 740,000 people that sent me to be their voice. people who sent me here have concerns. my concern is that i believe we need a tax break. we need tax reform. our country is overburdened, i want same relief -- >> do you think the president gave people a short trip? >> there was no specifics at all actually. it was just a general discussion . he didn't take questions. he spoke and spoke about his trip to asia and asked everybody to get out there and get tax reform passed. [inaudible question] >> the president came over to -- >> it's very important, i think you will see 220 or more votes. the challenge is the senate. the good news is that even though reconciliation is making it impossible. because it's a tax bill. and i think there is a good chance to see a complete victory here. under th care thing, reconciliation -- >> thank you very much everybody. it's going very well. thank you very much. [indiscernible] >> he he's the leader of the free world and has to look through the lenses of what is good for 330 million. i have to look at the 740,000 people that i represent. thank you. host: we heard from republican trent franks and the president is departing there. votes coming up on the house tax reform plan. the house will be back in in five minutes. we'll continue with your comments and charles is next in willow spring, north carolina, independent line. caller: hey, how are you doing today? host: we are going to hold on for a second and listen from kevin brady, the chairman of the ways and means committee. > thank you. host: getting brief comments from some members and we'll hear more from chairman brady in a bit. charles, willow spring, north arolina, go ahead. caller: i really -- i voted democrat, i voted republican. i get annoyed -- i'm 66 years old, nearly 67 and keep talking about tax reform. this is not tax reform. it's tax twisting and tweaking. tax reform would be something in the form of a flat tax. it would cost me money but so be it. but until we get rid of lobbyists and all these silly special interest things, you will never have any kind of balanced budget. back in march, people in authority are saying, you must pass tax reform before a budget. you can't form a budget until you know what your income is. host: let's hear from cleveland. tammy. caller: hi, how are you? host: i'm fine. caller: what i keep seeing it is appearing more and more to me and everyone i know, it's more of the democrats that they continue to refuse and resist no matter what it is that the new administration tries to put through, they will resist it. r example, people are saying that should this tax reform would be passed it would affect those who are making $30,000 or less and have to pay more taxes, which, in fact, in the senate finance committee as they were speaking earlier, he even spoke that there would be no change for those making $30,000 or less and still have no federal tax liability and that would not change but using that, a lot of confuse me and the american people saying this is a bad thing. but i'm an american person and i do want this tax reform. i have a handicapped children. i believe that this tax reform is a great thing for the american people. we have not had a good tax reform bill in 30 years. everything that has been tried to get done, democrats knock it down with a hammer. host: we have asked a couple of people, have you called your member of congress and expressed your support for the bill? caller: yes. and i send them emails and facebook pages. host: appreciate you calling in. let's hear from charlotte in red bluff, north carolina. i'll try to do that. harlotte in red bluff -- red bluff, california. caller: i'm a democrat and hearing them taking money out of the medicare. i have worked since i was 14 and only mother of two. i worked two jobs for a very long time and now i'm on social security and say they want to take money out of medicare. i don't understand how they have the right to do it. we paid in and we should have it. i want them to talk more about it. host: a moment or two. half an hour of general debate, 17 or minutes or so from the republicans, 12 minutes from the democrats and final comments from house speaker paul ryan and final passage vote is ahead. we do expect a motion to recommit, the democrats' last chance to change the bill. in the senate they continue work in the finance committee, likely the last day of their consideration on the bill with oor debate ahead after the thanksgiving break. host: alfred, we'll take your comment. caller: i was listening to the lady before the lady from red bluff, california, saying that people making $30,000 any tax liability and that's the point she's stuck on. she is raising a handicapped kid and not understanding she is voting against her own economic interest every time she votes republican. but she hasn't been paying attention to politics long enough to understand, democrats have done a lot to help people. we know that democrats are the ones -- when president obama was in office -- she said democrats stopped everything. no. president obama tried to do health care with the republicans. he tried to do tax change with the republicans. he tried to do infrastructure. all i heard mitch mcconnell say, he wanted to make president obama a one-term president and never helped to do everything. i don't know where that lady was when she said -- something about before, president obama. this country was going down the tubes. the stock market had crashed. the auto industries were tanking and they were trying to do bankruptcy and the republicans said no. i remember mitt romney said just let them go. and president obama brought them all back. his hard work with the democrats, not one republican, not one. he wanted the help. now i warrant the republicans to go to regular order like john mccain and has the only republic that has sense and him and the lady from alaska and the lady from maine. they are smart and put country before party. and that's what has to happen now. regular order. o back to regular order. host: that's alfred. a look from the house studios indicating the house is in recess subject to the call of the chair. they are waiting for the bill managers, house republican tax reform measure managers and that is congressman neal, the ranking democrat and ways and means committee chair, kevin brady of texas. waiting for them to come to the chamber and continue with your calls and comments. mike on the republican line. caller: i'm listening to the back and forth on the senate floor between the democrats and the republicans, all i got to say, we the people, the house nd the senators to our spokeperson and what we vote for is the president. and he gives us the guidelines of how he wants it done. and we want what we want what the president wants. and we would like the congress to do their job and give in over there. the senators and the congressman, they promised us the moon. so we go ahead and vote them in, me as a republican, i always vote republican because i want the truth of the republicans to come out. and they don't give anything what i wanted. i wanted what the president wanted. the democrats had the last eight years did they fight for any tax deduction for the lower or middle class? no, they raised the tax and they still taxed everybody else according. i admit, they give to the low income more so than any others. host: waiting for the house to gavel back in to finish up debate. about half an hour of general debate is left. what's going on on the senate side, the finance committee is meeting, fourth day consideration of their tax reform measure and those deliberations continue this afternoon and follow that over on c-span-3. let's go to baltimore and talk to benjamin on the democrats' line. caller: thank you for having me. i'm a a student at the johns hopkins school of public health. i want to raise some issues that i have along with many of my colleagues who are also in graduate school. the provision in the bill that uld -- [inaudible] >>