immigrants that are coming across the border right now are taking jobs directly away from the american people. in the construction industry, they've taken up so much of the work where 50% of the workers, work is being done by immigrants and it's taking construction completely out of the equation. also, i don't think that the numbers are true about how many are over here. there's no 11 million. there's probably closer to 15 million and that's just the male factor, the male of the family. have robert, i'm going to rebecca tallent take your last point. guest: the numbers, that's a good question. we are talking about a population that's illegal so they're not on the books most of the time so inherently that leaves it up to question as to how many people are here. believe it or not, they actually do census numbers on the illegal population and this is -- 11 to 12 is the best estimate we have based off of those numbers. during the 2007 debate, there were many who said it could be up to 20 million. the going perception right now is that we're within net zero immigration because of the state of the economy but what does that mean? i think you could debate these numbers for a long time but based on census numbers, 11 to 12 is the best number we have now and that also, because those are census numbers, accounts for full families, not just those employed so that's the number we have now but i also think there is a big question about if you put through legalization program how many of those people would come forward to be legalized. that's an important question because a lot of people may decide to return to their home country. they might take the temporary status off work here for a few years and rather than get a green card, go back to their sending country because a lot of immigrants are coming here for two, three, four years, working, saving up a pot of money and going home so you're talking about the actually legalization of how many people are going to be getting green cards and eventually becoming citizens that, number drops again from the 11 to 12, maybe even by half. >> when you look at what the gang of eight, so-called gang of eight in the senate is proposing when it comes to a pathway to citizenship, what does it look like? >> the best intelligence we've gotten on this has been from senator graham who, speaking on one of the sunday shows a few weeks ago and talked about how they're looking at redoing the entire immigration system so right now when you come to the country legally, you come in as either a temporary worker on a temporary visa, you come here as a visitor, but if you want to come to permanently stay, become a green card and become a citizen, you come through a family category or employment category. the majority of people who come here for green cards right now are coming on family categories. that is not necessarily consistent with many developed countries around the world so people have thrown around the idea of shifting that from being more family based to be more employment based. that's one of the things that derailed our proposal in 2007 was that they actually did away with all family and employment based categories and funneled everyone through a points based system so it sounds like from what senator graham is saying is they're going to keep higher level family categories so the immediate relatives of citizens, possibly immediate relatives of green card holders -- spouse, minor children -- and roll everyone else into a points based system which is a significant, probably the biggest overhaul of our immigration system in the last 50, 75 years and it's incredibly tough and incredibly complicated. when we were doing our points based system in 2007 we spent at least two weeks behind the doors saying, does that earn you three points or two points and how many points does someone need to get a green card? you can look at the british system, canadian system, system in new zealand and australia, they have a points-based system where you earn points to get a green card and i think negotiators are looking to those as a model but the important part they're not going to be eliminating all the family categories like we did in 2007. in 2007, you could still come in as a family member but you had to earn enough points to come in as a family member, as well, whereas this proposal it sounds like is going to still keep at least the higher level uncapped family members still in place so they're trying to strike a balance between the two and have everybody funnel in through that system. it will be interesting to see the construct. i think it's going to be complicated and i'll be really interested to see how the house reacts to it, huge overhaul like that. host: new town, north carolina, cindy, republican caller. caller: good morning. i wanted to say that i feel like this is out of control, this immigration is not a democrat, a win, a republican, a is actually should be is for nothing but the citizens of the united states and we all need to look at that. democrats are going to win on this? sure they're going to win. if the republicans fight against it, sure they're going to lose but the real loser are the citizen, tax paying citizens of the united states. thank you. host: on twitter, grace says "will mr. graham make sure it takes 20 years to become a u.s. citizen or nearly imsnoble isn't that his agenda?" guest: that's a better question to pose to senator graham but based on the articles that have come out in last 24 hours, it sounds like they're looking at a 13-year path to citizenship, which is an eight-year path for a green card. you have to hold a green card for five years before being eligible to apply for citizenship so that's in law and won't be changed but the question is how long is the path to get point where you get a green card and much of that is based off of the border security, trigger, whatever that trigger looks like and the clearing out of the backlog which is people currently outside the country waiting legally to come in and how do you clear those people out and make sure nobody who's here illegally gets a better path than people who have been waiting outside the country legally and generally they -- the estimate it's going to take about eight years to clear those folks out and make sure that they have the opportunity first so that's why they're looking at approximately 13 years to citizenship but in that time they are going to be here on a legal status. they'll give them a type of temporary work permit that's not so temporary and that will eventually let them work through this new system to get a green card. host: joanna in maryland, republican caller. caller: good morning. two issues i'd like to see you address. the first one is, i think we tend to focus too much on latin americans and i'd like you to talk a little bit about folks that come over here, say, from african countries and russians and ukrainians and other countries that come over here on student visas or visitors visas and they just overstay. they stay here for a long time. i live in suburban maryland and trust me, there's a number of those kinds of violations that are here. and because i get worried that we have a tendency to demonize people in latin america. and the second issue has to do with latin american countries. what are we doing as a government and is this going to be part of the bill to foster economic growth in those countries. people come over here for a reason. mys isn't a whim to risk life to cross the border. they're coming here for a reason. oftentimes these governments are corrupt. the economy is so poor and there's two elements there. one is getting those governments to cooperate with us on immigration issues but probably more important what are we doing to foster economic growth there, in latin american countries, so folks want to stay in their own country. guest: joanna, thanks for the question because you bring up an important issue. i referenced this earlier with our work at the bipartisan policy center but that is an issue we hope to focus on specifically, how can the united states work with mexico and other sending countries to help build infrastructure back home that will afford people the opportunity to stay there and work and be part of their community if they feel like today they have no other choice but to come to the united states to find work so how do you help build the banking infrastructure, the homeowner infrastructure -- in a lot of these countries people don't have titles to their own homes -- so how are their basic trades, not in the economic sense, but how can the united states work with the governments of these countries not necessarily in a financial way, not in a sending money to help build the infrastructure kind of way, but in a trading of ideas kind of way to help establish those pieces that build up the economy in the sending countries and make it less pressure for people to have to move north. if you look back to 2001, you can see bush worked with vicente fox on the partnership for prosperity. because september 11 came so quickly after they signed that agreement, it's a chapter lost in history but they were laying the groundwork for work with canada for work just like what you're talking about and back when we wrote our original immigration bill, jeff flake, jim kolbe, john mccain effort back in 2005, we had a small piece in our bill that referenced building off of that work and i'm hoping that as the bipartisan policy center we can help congress to maybe formulate another proposal that's similar that will address exactly the issues that you're talking about. the other issue that you brought up was that not all illegal immigrants are from latin american countries and you're absolutely right. the irish population is very invested in what happens with the undocumented population here in the united states because they actually have tens of thousands of people of irish descent here legally. 50% of the population, estimated currently here undocumented, are visa overstayers so it's not just an issue of securing the border and building a fence and putting in all of that infrastructure down there which is very important to this debate but you have to address the matter of these overstays so how do you monitor how long people have been here and when it's time for them to go home but also how do you afford people opportunities if they are contributing to society or receiving education or contributing to the economy, how do you afford them the opportunities to stay rather than put them in a position where they're choosing to stay illegally so we can capitalize off of their entrepreneurial attitude, i guess we could call it, and try to facilitate that process while making sure that if people are overstaying for nefarious reasons or if they're not contributing, we know who they are, where they are and that they're going home so you raise two very important points and thank you for your call. host: john laurie on twitter, will illegal immigrants who commit i.d. card be considered criminals? guest: this is a complicated issue, what do you do with people who are here illegally who are working off of somebody else's social security number. what's interesting for me is that i think somebody is working off of my social security number. i was trying to get a replacement card and they kept asking me where my first job was and i named every state that i worked in in the nation and none were the state they had on record. i was born in del rio, texas, which is a border town and grew up in tucson, arizona, a burdener town so it's possible somebody is working off of my number. what does that mean? there are people working off of numbers and identity theft, yes, legally it's the same thing but is somebody working off of a number is the same thing as someone taking out credit cards and mortgage under your name and ruining your credit? there are illegal immigrants working under tax i.d. numbers which are not stolen social security numbers, not stolen tax i.d. numbers but their own tax i.d. number and when people are here illegally as a green card holder they can get a social security number so it's a really good question. we've gone around and around about this. there's been several amendments on the senate floor asking exactly how to deal with this. i don't know what the -- i don't think anybody knows what the population of undocumented is that are working off of somebody else's number but i think when this really gets tricky is somebody's been working here 20 year, let's say somebody's working here 20 years using my number. they're contributing to my social security account so when they're, under current law, when the population is legalized, they're allowed to take the money out of my social security account they've paid into it. they are due those social security benefits if they can prove they made the contribution. they're not taking my contributions but they're allowed, if they can prove they've been contributing to social security, they are eligible to get those funds. it's a little secret in there but it's law so how do you address that situation, how do you clean those numbers up. that's a huge part of the ongoing debate. host: how would social security even know, the administration even know how much these people put in. guest: that's the point. you have to be able to prove it. you have to show your receipts, you have to have all your paychecks, showing your receipts saying this is how much i contributed each month. it would be hard to prove but technically they are eligible to receive those benefits. host: independent caller from alabama. caller: good morning. i have a question and a point and i have been watching for quite a few, 40 minutes, and, you know, people calling and complaining and some of the complaints. i myself from mexico, i'm in this country since 1998. i have been paying my taxes since 2003. i have family with american citizen, i have been trying to live -- i was not able and i'm glad congress doing something to help benefit me because i have been providing, paying my taxes and now that i have family, it's tough for me to go back to my original country and not be able to come back because i create my family on this side of the country but another thing, my main question or my main, what i was going to say, is that what we go to our grocery store and buy our groceries, we taxes there. last let's take that point. guest: that is an interesting point that's overlooked is that people who are here illegally generally are paying taxes. like the caller was mentioning, you're paying sales tax, you're paying gas taxes. but a lot of individuals, again, if they're working off of a fraudulent number or somebody else's number, are also paying income tax, they're paying social security. a lot of people who are here working are not getting paid under the table in cash. i think that's a misperception. i would say the vast majority of working at resource and construction sites and going through the regular payroll process the rest of us are going through so they are paying taxes, income taxes are helping to pay for the school. this is not how the system should work. i'm not going to argue that but i do believe there is misconception that everyone here illegally is taking advantage of the system and not paying into it at all and even if they were paid cash under the table, they're paying taxes at the stores, paying taxes on gas. is that enough? you could argue no or yes but there is a misconception that people are just taking from the system and not giving anything back and i don't think that's necessarily an accurate perception of the individuals we're talking about. host: rebecca tallent, coming up, we'll ask our viewers what role religion should play in politics and here's a poll that was done by the pew research center, views of immigrants by religion broken down by protestant, catholics, et cetera. immigrants today strengthen our country or are a burden. white evangelicals, 32% say they strengthen and 55% say they're a burden on the country. catholics, the numbers are reversed. catholics say, 55% of catholics say they strengthen our country while 37% say they are a burden. what role do organized religious groups play in this debate? are they player? guest: they absolutely are players and players even more this time around than they have been in the past. there's a group that's organizing around religious interests specifically as it relates to immigration reform and the idea of compassion for our brothers and sisters and being a compassionate society and showing the love of christ, et cetera, as it relates to this issue. i do think what's interesting about the numbers you put in order, if you're looking at the catholic population in the united states today, a large portion of that population is latino or hispanic so i think that that could affect these numbers. i'm not saying that accounts for all of it because the catholic church has been involved in this issue longer than other religious organizations have been. what's not on your chart there, i don't think, because i can't see it, is the mormon religion. they've taken a very progressive stance on this in the last few year. you can look at some of our mormon lawmakers and that i think might be affecting their position on this. senator flake is mormon. senator mike lee had positive steps forward on immigration after he came into office so i think their church's chance could affect where they end up here so i think that being -- the term compassionate conservative is one that we're all familiar with but i think that that feeling is playing out in churches around the country and conservative churches, too, but i also think break down the demographics of what those religions are and they might also even play more of a role in their opinions on this subject. host: rebecca tallent with the bipartisan policy center. thanks for talking to our viewers. appreciate it. guest: thank you very much for having me. the next "washington journal," will talk about air traffic control towers that the faa is closing due to sequestration. our guest is former inspector general for the transportation department mary shiavo. a look at the future cost of health care under the affordable care act with "the wall street journal reporter. and we look at the irs and hoyt processed the tax returns last year with james white of the government accountability office. "washington journal" is live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. president obama and his family attended easter services today at st. john's episcopal church near the white house. it is known as the church of the president. st. john says every president has visited the church since james madison. you can see the obama is as they began a short walk from lafayette park to the white house. as they began a short walk from lafayette park to the white house. >> next, a discussion on china's relationship with north korea. then an obama treasury official -- and obama administration treasury official discusses park and the dodd-frank financial regulation law. then a look at cyber security and international law. how relationsn between china and north korea affect the u.s. will hear from john park of harvard university's center for science and international affairs. he talks about the strength and relationships -- relationship between the two countries communist parties, and the consolidation of power by kim jong-un, and the unintended consequences of financial sanctions against north korea and its nuclear program. this program is about an hour. welcome to the korea society. my name is steven parker. and the senior vice president here at the korea society. we would like to walking -- welcome you all here, friends of korea, and this afternoon we would like to welcome our c-span viewers. delighted this afternoon to be t