the college students here, and the organizers on this campus and around the country, that put us in a position to affect real change. real change. and this has to happen. to lay the foundation for you, i wanted to share some things with you about my experiences when i was on the department. and then i will bring my remarks, to give you a sense, a foundational sense of some of what this movement that you've from ferguson all the way around the world has been vilified wrongfully in so many corners is really about. early in my career, i was working with an officer, female officer, and this officer happened to be a white female officer. not only did white officers abuse their authority, you have like, asian, and hispanic officers who do it. the issue of authority is where which isplace, consistently in black communities and poor white communities across this country. it was we got a call and a call for an officer need of aid. officer need of aid call for anybody who's in law enforcement in the room or anybody who knows law enforcement, officer need of aid call is a very serious call. means all officers in the geographical range of this call, stop whatever you're doing an expedited the officer's location. he or she is in trouble, serious trouble, could be. this officer put out a call. use chasing a suspect in an armed robbery and he was running. out, we expedite to his location and get there first. we see the officer who put the aid call out. we don't see a suspect, we see the officer bent over like this, winded, breathing hard. we go up to the female officer and asked them, what happened, are you ok? yeah, i'm ok. i'm all right. he's breathing hard. where did he go? on a street called ashland in north st. louis, missouri. that is the lack side of st. louis, missouri. this.nt over like she asked him where the guy went and he went like this. i went in that house. he picked a house at random. we go up to the house, me and a female officer. we get to the door. she's banging on the door. had our flashlight, big black flashlight, hitting the door as hard as she could. open the store. -- open this door. i'm not been a use the language. -- not going to use the language. don't know if anybody is in the house or not. from the back of the house, with the ruckus we created in the front of it, we see a shape begin to approach the door. wooden door, glass in the center. moving about this be right here. slowly getting to the door. the door opens, cracked. standing in the door is a kid about 19 years old, african american. i'm standing there with this female officer. i'm 6'8", out of shape right now, but at that time i was working out every day. 5, 270,bout to 65, -- 26 single-digit body fat. i had on a short sleeve shirt, size medium. justld look like i was busting out of it. andpened the door, he looks he says, lady, i don't know what you're talking about great i live here. here all my life. everybody on this blog knows our family. they know me. i'm here by myself right now. you've got the wrong house. i guess that was the wrong answer, because as soon as he got those words out of his mouth, she grabbed him by his smashed him out of that doorway and took him to the edge of the porch we were on. in north st. louis, the porches are elevated on some blocks. they set up real high. feet. fall maybe 10 she had him by his throat over the edge of that porch. bam. she cracked him right in the face. i'm looking at this, and if somebody hits you like that -- if somebody hits you like that, generally speaking you're going to do one of two things. you are going to put up your hands and try to block something else that may be coming at you, or you may offer up some discouragement for that kind of behavior. i don't know if she thought he was trying to engage or what, but she hit him again to the fa ce, to the groin. it's hurting him, and happening slow but it's happening fast. at this point, i grabbed the uniformed officer in my uniform and get her off this guy and take her to one side of the porch. i told you, it was an officer need of aid call. they means every officer in the area expedites to this location. he had canceled the aid call, which slowed them down some. you know people want to see what the aid call was about, so he came anyway. here come the rest of the officers. up the steps of the porch we were on comes a black officer, blackmail officer. -- black male officer. he looks at me, looks at the veteran officer i had in the corner. he goes, what's going on? she points at the guy who was still laying where she left him he said, that s.o.b., assaulted me and tried to interfere with what i was trying to do. the black officer said, oh yeah? he goes over to the guy and said, man, get up. said,ked up at him and get you see i can't get up? the officer said, man, get the -- up. the kid said, you see i can't get up. the officer grabbed him and his shirt, picked him up, slammed him into the house so his face was against the house and his hands are behind his back. he cuffed him up. the kid is still leaning against the house. cars saying, get in that because i'm taking you in for assault on an officer. the kid was leaning on the house, looking at him. i'll never forget the look in his eyes. he was a mix of anger, hurt, surprise, fear, all of that. he was looking at this brother in front of him thinking, why are you doing this to me? he said it one last time. he said man, you see i can't go. the officer dropped down and grabbed this kid, pulled up like that. if you have your hands bound behind your back and can't move them and somebody grabs you by your ankles and pulls up as hard as they can, what do you think happens? you hit your head pretty hard, don't you? and he did. and he drug him down that porch and through the yard and threw him in the car. we got back to the station and we are all in the sergeants room and we all get into it. first the female officer. you ever interfere with me again while i'm doing police -- that's how she characterized what she had done -- i will never write with you again. -- ride with you again. i'm already thinking, that's a damn good idea. the other officer leaning back and forth a bit. the sergeant, look, we have work to do. puts us all back in service. and we all went akin service -- back in service. that was that. what always bothered me about that encounter, what always has stayed with me to this very day, was the reason the kid kept telling the officer, don't you see that i can't go? that ison he was saying because when he first came to the door and saw me and the other officer standing there and he cracked the door open, he was standing there on crutches. she snatched him off his crutches to do that to him. and nobody was in the house. and it was his home. and he was in violation of no law. no law. got one more for you to set the foundation and then we will talk. young kid, 21, 22 at the time. us, brought to our attention. this is when i was at hbo. about an assault committed on him by police officers in st. louis. at a traffic stop, one of those checkpoints situations where they set up a check point and every car that comes through has to stop, and he's at the checkpoint one night. and, he stops. the officer is at a distance and he can't understand at some point what the officer is directing him to do. and so he gets out of his car to find out more about what he needs to do because he has somewhere to be. car.ts out of the the officer says, get akin there -- back in there. because he has somewhere he urgently needs to be, he approaches the officer anyway in an attempt to explain that and find out what it is he needs to do so he can move through the checkpoint. instead of offering him an explanation for his simple act of noncompliance, which these the can get you killed, officer proceeds to assault him maces him, chokes him up with that mace, eyes burning, and get ready to arrest him for assault on an officer or resisting arrest. every time elyse beat you up, they charge you with resisting arrest -- police beat you up, they charge you with resisting arrest. at some point, one of the supervising officers arrives and a decision is made to finally let anthony get medical attention, which they initially burning, and get ready to arrest him for assault on an officer or resisting arrest. denied to him, and to release him. this was largely due to the fact that at some point, they realized that the assault the hadcer committed on anthony caused him to miss his flight back to iraq for his second tour of duty in the united states army. i interviewed anthony at length, and to hear anthony, this black kid, this soldier, described to me how he felt that he had no stateshere in the united that anyone were bound to recognize how he had always felt this way because the police had always treated him this way and his family this way including was disappointing, to say the least. these kinds of experiences are part of the daily lived reality of lack people everywhere in this country, -- black people everywhere in this country, particularly in the urban poors of this country, and you need to fully understand that when you see black lives matter, this is what they are talking about. talking about the real, lived experiences of people, and they are tired, we are tired -- this is generations old, fathers and sons, mothers and daughters have experienced this going back to who knows when and there has been zero accountability for any of it because, as police officers, we always can fall back on that narrative of somesm, sacrifice, risk, of the favorite words of many of the most public police some of the favorite words of .he public apologies houck, peoplerry to justify anything the police will do on the street. you know, this is where we are. what about the more serious cases? -- cases we have seen? seen absolutely no accountability for all that violate our human rights and civil liberties. garner --r -- and eric garner hundred hundreds. make no mistake -- murdered in front of us. make no mistake. murdered on the street. an officer using any legal chokehold--an illegal and he willfully does this with zero expectation that he and his cohorts will be held accountable. in the aftermath you get a boss, chin up, chest out, not only justify this murder, but on his officers turned their backs on the mayor of new york, mayor deblasio, for having the nerve to describe the lived experience of him and his family when he talks to his biracial kids about how to deal with police. lynch would do better to have his officers stopped turning their backs on our human rights. he would do much better in that regard. sandra bland. encounters an officer and rightfully is stop,ant at a nonsense and correctly uses the right to our extended to her under the constitution, only to be met from the contempt of the officer -- for having the nerve as a to object to him. he is asking her to put out a cigarette after a woman is issued. their interaction is done. if you have received a summons for me, we have conducted our business, i am out. i am not standing there saying by the way, i want you to the cigarette out, and if we do not get out, we somehow escalate to the point where i am saying i'm going to like you up, it you with the -- hit you with the 50,000 volts because i do not like you. we have to come to a place where officers see the inherent value of everyone they serve in their community tamir rice -- community. tamir rice. i am going to everyone and i think it is important. this goes on nationally. as a different perspective from long or synthetic knowledge is our ugly history when it comes to race, racism. tamir rice -- the child was shot within two seconds of the police officer arriving. he barely exited the vehicle. this was an officer had a history of failure in his performance area -- the department that he left to go to the cleveland police department said he was unfit for duty, particularly when it relates to firearms. in the report that comes out he thinks he saw tamir rice reaching for his waistband when you were notified by one caller it could be a toy gun. whether it was a toy gun or a real gun, for you to pull up on a shooter like that is asinine. then you fire. then his sister shows up, and you in the back of the car before you administer health to the child. that happened in black committees. contrast that with the recent shooting in louisiana, a six-year-old boy, tragic, should not have happened, but the two black officers that shot that can have been indicted, quickly, and the $1 million bond set for both of them. freddie gray. freddie gray. he did not leave his home in 2014,ore on april 12, with a broken back and a crushed pipe, and he did not do it himself, yet officers would assert that is the case and become indignant when we do not believe them. ellen mosley, the state's attorney for baltimore, who have the courage and integrity to indict the officers was met with the vitriol, aggressive response, attacks on her and her family by the police union there and the officers there because i am telling you, they want zero accountability. zero. none. this movement that you see growing around you -- that is why the unity that you didn't amongst in the -- you created in the communities amongst you in the communities you come from, that is why the unity to build and the move that you build is so vital to the change that we need to see there hasstorically of the valuenition of black life in this country. period. it is ok to say black lives matter. yes, we have had our moments. them have been moments when people of all races have come together and given us some victories, but there has never been, in the history of this country -- never, a consensus -- nationally, a majority, that says you know what? everyone here should be equally valued in every process that we have. we all agree with that. there has always been at least half the country, millions of people, more than half sometimes, who would fight that with everything in them -- everything in them. that is the american reality. i am not talking about the american narrative. i talking about the american reality. when it comes to precedent, there is good reason to those officers to be sure they won't be held accountable, especially when it comes to black life. kid,on martin, another stopped, and then kid by george zimmerman, a man, who from what i have seen and heard, gives us all a good example of a text book coward. all of his fights are with women and children. he engages tehran -- tehran martin after he was told not to buy the real police. then he gets off on the stand your ground law. contrast that with melissa alexander's case in florida. a woman, who upon being confronted by a man who had a history of physically and literally assaulting her, and who, in that moment announced to her that he was about to physically and brutally assault her again, she produced a weapon said "no you are not. no you are not." and she fired a shot, a warning shot, hitting no one, killing no one, and she was sent to 20 years in prison. the process distorted by race and racism get us a result like that and you can believe a lot of people in florida were good with that -- comfortable with that. the last case i want to talk about nationally -- there are more, but i know i am unlimited time to michael brown. michael -- time. michael brown. michael brown was killed 10 minutes from my house, killed by darren wilson in ferguson. there were credible witnesses that described the shooting scene, and it was a case that should have been tried on the a jury, butnt of the prosecutor was determined to -- don't the don't case in front of the grand jury and told them to sort through it. including the testimony of a hostile witness, who could not have been and was not physically present at the time michael was shot. this was a prosecutor has a history of that kind of thing. 20 years earlier, a notorious shooting in a jack-in-the-box parking lot filled with students from a local school, and carried out an operation two suspects, killing them both, both of them unarmed, one of them may father.y employed that goes to a grand jury, and it is later discovered afterward mcauliffe lied about elements of testimony in the case -- the elements, -- key elements. thing gets this case, the with it, and darren wilson was allowed to leave and get his story straight. much was made about what michael brown may or might not have been doing that day? was there a strong-arm robbery? a thug?s he common ininality is this country. we do not always handle youthful poor choices that way. i came across something about an act or name mark -- an actor named mark wahlberg. anybody know who mark wahlberg is? anybody -- a famous guy, well-paid, millionaire. when mark was a kid like michael brown, brutally assaulted two men, one of whom he knocked unconscious while shouting racist taunts at him. a vietnamese guy. another man that he still brutally permanently blinded him in one i. .n the tape -- in one eye on the tape they showed me of michael, he shoved somebody. you had officers, officials, elected people saying that is enough -- is the is warranted, because look at the kind of kid he was. that guy. good thing we gave mark wahlberg a chance to get his life. it is a good thing we saw he was redeemable. and what about black on black crime? what about it, while i am here? people say or ask where are the protests when blacks kill other blacks, as if that is an offset for the human rights violations, civil rights violations, and brutality received from people -- aren service and how empowered by law? first, people commit crimes where they are against the people around them, where you live. so there is black on black crime, white on white crime, hispanic on his panic crime -- hispanic crime. it is crime. a better question is where are the organized efforts to address violence in black communities? i've been part of many of them and many of my colleagues are in the continuous, ongoing efforts to push back against the kinds of things that we see that contribute to the violence in our community and directly address it at the community level, the grassroots level, in some cases, door to door. when we have not been able to do it slow the -- do is loaded defunding of public education, slow chronic unemployment, or the mass incarceration. we have not been able to do that. deprivation and hopelessness -- you put those together anywhere, and you will get what you get, whether that is in st. petersburg, russia, warsaw, poland, st. louis, missouri, the bahamas -- wherever you create those conditions, you will have what you have. it is not mysterious. but he did not only the violent we talk about -- violence we talk about when we address in our community and it is important to talk about the because what it comes down to the lost future. a about young people losing their lives. we have lost that you talk about young people losing their lives. we have lost that future. what might he or she has been -- what might he or she had given to us? what have we lost --. i -- a future. violence is and i will tell you the problems in a minute, but the number of people lost to violence in our community is not begin to approach the number of futures lost in our community to a criminal justice system that is at its core institutionally racist and works in concert with a public prison industry that trade publicly on the stock market and insist that states insure the businesses they build and run for profit and 90% occupied. run foray this -- profit remain 90% occupied. i will say this about the issue. me that ourpains , defendant -- descendents of the community that had --geted for suffering and, and abuse, marginalization and deprivation, and waved, exploited -- enslaved, exploited, diminished at every turn, would now turned the gun on the -- now the gun on us and each other. that part of it pains me. i look at what chicago, st. louis, and other cities, and i may for a raise -- i pray for a raise consciousness to get a clearer picture of they are, where they are, and how they got where we are. moreover, i would call out -- i would call out our entertainers -- the ones who profit from the death of our brothers, moving the in our community that the death of your brother is your mission in life, and if this is not your mission, ain't about nothing with us, and who profit from sending that point to a and see the blood on our streets and glorify and encourage it further. when you're right of freedom of expression was bought and paid for with the sacrifice that came before you -- get conscience, man. wake up. stop allowing yourself to be biases that destroyed we landed. it --f that -- none of none of it changes the fact that two racism is at the foundation of the month of an american -- foundation of criminal justice in america. nothing we can talk about changes in -- not new terrorist the,ts, not moving, -- nothing. change the reality of the problems we have to come to grips with. you cannot sweep it under the rug -- they look over there -- none of that. equal treatment under the law is the american narrative, not the american reality. deeplygoing to have a within ourselves. to make the discussion more comfortable, that means they -- say this, and not just in this room, but nationally, for the nation, here's how to make this racial discussion. we talk about black and white but we have other races. understand it, accept it, you can go forward. the problems i'm talking about here tonight and that i talk about in all the places that i discuss them when it comes to race and racism and institutional racism in our history with it, no one in this auditorium tonight is under peopleent -- the white in the room -- is under indictment for any of this? . why? because you did not create the conditions. we were all born into this reality. it was like this when we got here. we were born into. you did not do this. trust me, it was like this when you showed up. you are alive now. our responsibility, is to acknowledge fully what that reality is -- not the narrative, the reality of our history is, where as now, and do something about it, collectively, together. that is our role. that will allow us to have the discussion. i will have to close, because i was told i have 30 minutes, and i know i'm getting there. there are things we can do change the dynamic between police and community that they police-community relationship, the break down in it was the genesis of the movement that we see. of course, it has expanded to the discussion of race and its impact across all of our system, whether you are talking about education, health care -- you name it, but relative to police and community, the first and foremost piece that we have to address accountability. accountability. there is already plenty of good training. i have heard people talk about that new, this new training. we have great training already that officers receive, but it is worthless if you do not have officers in here to the pollen -- adhere to the policy and are not at health -- held accountable. eric donner -- officers violated and no one iscies held accountable. all we get is headlines with his chin of just looking like a doofus. -- chest out looking like a youth is. doofus. one of the things i would like to see us become involved in his building a movement within the criminal justice in the south, nationally -- itself, nationally, starting with people who come from infected communities, black and brown communities, judges, attorneys, police officers, correction officers. ourselves within that system and demand and forced the changes we want to see relative to how it operates in our community and its function in our communities. there are enough of us, and it is right -- we have the moral high ground here, man. that is one of the things i would like to see. another thing that i think you go a long way toward resolving the issues that i have seen as a special prosecutor in all cases involving use of force by a police officer result serious injury or death. the relationship between prosecutors and police departments are too close to have a reasonable expectation that the department is going after the officer in the department they working alliance with almost 100% of the time. bob: is a prime example of that -- bob mccullough is a response of that -- prime example of that. jurytly sued by a grand because he thought he had a propensity to look at things differently. he is a former aclu attorney. i think i know you. takes him off the grand jury in violation of state law. think they do not shape outcomes? getthink they do not decide justice and does not? next point -- my in cases that resulted in serious injury or death, eliminate the grand jury. yes, eliminate the grand jury. process thattive in too many cases involving thece misconduct result in elimination of accountability for police officers because the prosecutor has advocated for the officer in front of the grand jury and does not have to be tried on the fact. either that, or have the arguments for indictment to race with a public can be present. the last thing i would tell you is to support the movement that you see -- it is an american movement. don't be afraid of black lives matter. these are young people who are american citizens, just like you, but they want their rights recognized, and their right to live, their right dignity, recognized. it is not negotiable for them. it is not up for, really, discussion and they are citizens , and they fully understand the history. so, as i close my remarks, i am first of all amazed i was able to get through them. i thought i was out on my feet. they ran me ragged. i had no idea what i was when i got up at 4:30 this morning to , but i am glad i came, and i appreciate you giving me your time and valuing what you thought i might have to say enough to be here tonight, and i look forward to engaging you. said the questions need to be respectful, and they do, but nothing is off limits. you can challenge me, because i believe in free and open dialogue. i think that is the way forward, and thank you for your patience with me tonight. thank you. [applause] mr. hudson: was that too long? professor hoffman: no, you are fine. thank you so much for being here. you are the final speaker in the series we have had all semester long about race in america. we have talked about the black lives matter movement, the civil rights movement. you are here in this unique role as having served as a police said and now, kind of, speaking out against uncivil things that you saw. the nationalder of coalition of law enforcement for justice, reform, and --ountability -- a long name how did you go from being a police officer to seeking to hold those same officers accountable? mr. hudson: it was not a huge transition when i came to the department. i came with the same ideology, personal philosophy, disposition -- everything about me was the same when i joined the department. ultimately, that is what led to me the work because i am who i am. i was profoundly disillusioned, though, more than i was before i became a police officer. i became profoundly a solution -- disillusioned with the command justice system in the united states and the conduct of some of my colleagues in particular, and i knew i had to stopping heart of that system. now, let me be clear about this -- i realize i have not said this tonight and it is important that i do. there are good police officer. there are good police officer. there are good people doing a very difficult job under very difficult circumstances, who have to make very difficult decisions, sometimes, and they deserve our support. it is a tough job. my contention is that the number of officers that will willfully abuse their authority and your human rights and your civil big a number to not have a system to make policy response in place to deal with those people, but there are good offices in the country. so, i am hoffman: here to pull up -- to work . you have had a couple of offense, editorials that have come out -- op-ed, editorials that have come up, and i recommend people looking at these articles from "the washington post" and vox. the store youid spoke about -- the young black man with the crutches, -- story you spoke about, the young black man with the crutches, frustrating to read about. whether there other situations like that you haven't counted during your time -- you have encountered during your time with the police force? there have been situations i have encountered, situations i have been made aware of. it is a very common occurrence to see people's rights abused for little or no reason at all -- for single acts of noncompliance. this, i am aware, for example, of a colleague -- it is very interesting. him and i initially, we were probably, i would not say we were adversaries, but we were not necessarily the wedding. -- not necessarily that buddies. policeher was a chief of and his father got into politics opposite a guy that was the first african-american mayor st. louis that i worked on security detail. i used to be in shape. i am telling you. this guy, while he was in the department, in the bureau, the detective euro, he walked in on one of his officers who was threatening a black subject in a chair with a taser held at it --ital -- held at general genitals, and he was telling them was going to say what he wanted to or else. my colleague walked in on that and he stopped it, rightfully, and he woke the guy up, the taser, and medially, as you would expect, he was -- immediately, as you expect, he was ostracized, marginalized, lack-all -- we do not deal with you. at the trial for this thing, i was the only person that showed up -- him and his dad, ironically, that showed up in support of him. every other officer from the union and anywhere else was aligned against -- how dare he stopped him from threatening this suspect and ruin his good name. i aments like that -- telling you, i cannot impress upon you enough -- these are not isolated, few and far between kind of things. these are part of the daily, lived experience, and the collective experience of black people all over this country. professor hoffman: so, 15 years out of your experience in the st. louis police department, i have a picture of hear from demonstrators reacting after learning the police officer shot michael brown would not face charges out side of the police station in ferguson, missouri, just about one year ago on november 20. fifth -- november 24. 15 years after being out, what was your reaction? mr. hudson: disappointed, but not surprised. i knew bob:. it was clear early on he would do everything needed to avoid holding darren wilson accountable, and i was not surprised by it. nor was i surprised by the reaction of the community. let me share something with you to give you a sense of the community. you see those young people turn out -- here is what they have lived, what their parents have lived. i gave a know your rights workshop four months ago in st. louis during at the end of which, a gentleman's mid--- a 50's, saidin his mid- when i was a young man, i was moving furniture, and a police officer came up to question me that question him about it, and he explained that he was moving. later that same day, and evening, at night, the same officer had faith down, in them -- taste down, in the mud -- face down, in the mud, with a shotdone at his head, that gun at his head, accusing him -- from thet his head, apartment. that took place years ago where ago brown lived -- 30 years where mike brown lived. imagine the accumulated experience of the people in that community. we had credible witnesses that contradicted darren's story, which he got together, and he was never sent to trial. no one ever got the chance to hear the credible testimony. except his version, even if you accept his version, as an force, whym using did you fire and shot at michael running awaye was from you? if i am moving away, am i a threat, am i a threat, i am not. why are you firing at me and you do not think he had a weapon because your statement was he was wrestling and firing -- fighting with you over yours. retained it, so that nothing. it should have went to trial. professor hoffman: in addition atyour work with looking police behavior, you have also done some research on human rights abuses, particularly in the st. louis city jails with the aclu. you release the report, "suffering in silence" available online. in 2009 it demonstrated numerous human rights abuses city jail. what is changed since then -- what has changed since then? professor hoffman: --mr. hudson: not much. ultimately everything we alleged with them to be true and then some. they are facing a number of lawsuits now described in the report. the senate. people that systemic change is difficult. you have to have people that work to acknowledge the problem. they are trying, from what i understand, in recent, to make system, but by the it is very difficult. the prison system is what it is -- rapid abuse -- rampant abuse. we, as a society, even if we do accept the it, we idea, at least, that the moment you cross the threshold of a jail or prison, your constitutional right are suspended, which is particularly ironic in jail settings where you are being, in many cases, been held over for trial and are innocent until proven guilty, still, but they are violating your rights on a daily basis. i am talking about brutal beatings, sexual assaults, -- if youprivations have medications and you are incarcerated, and it is being denied to you, that is a problem. we found all of those things when we did that report, and i am glad we were able to shed some light on it, but i know that is widespread. professor hoffman: it is going to take more work? mr. hudson: is going to take more work in a commitment -- and a commitment to understand the value of living up to our stated ideals. professor hoffman: one of the common questions i had from my students -- art of the series, there is a class associated, and research onts do the speakers, and many are concerned and interested about these body cameras. tony are asking our body cameras a sufficient solution -- is there something else that should be done to hold police officers accountable? i think body cameras are a great these of solving the issues. the issue of accountability, of course. with those body cameras, you can be sure there will be a flight through the process to the point where we see they are uniformly and consistently use by department because many departments right now are on one hand except in the idea that the body cameras are a good -- excepting the idea the body cameras are a good idea, but at the same time they are trying to limit the public's access to the footage the body camera produces -- they want to hold it for 14 days, 21 days, before it is released, and i do not think there is enough trust in the relationship for anyone to be comfortable with the idea of a police department having so access and custody of video footage gained from an officer's conduct might be under investigation for some potentially criminal act, you are the guys that are holding it. it is the fox guarding the henhouse. additionally, empowered civilian review oversight is something that should be in play, although i have not seen many models nationally that i would describe as wildly successful, usually because they lack the kind of authority and autonomy that would make them effective in the oversight of the police department, and the go-two argument therefore a police department is civilian not understand what we do, you do not understand the process and procedure, you do not understand what it's like to make a split -second decision, on and on, but judge common sense. few tell me what you did, i can make a good decision on which side of right and wrong or illegal and illegal that you landed on. that you landed on. professor hoffman: we had an exciting day on campus. we had a new president of the university. mr. hudson: i heard. where is he? professor hoffman: i think they are doing other events. mr. hudson: could have come to this. professor hoffman: today, didn't have had the national -- students have had the national collegiate blackout, standing color, and youf live in missouri. what is happening on that campus -- what is the history of race and racism on that campus, and how can students at the university of delaware and across the country work to make a difference on their campus? historyon: it is a long in missouri. i am 51 years old. there are people that i know that attended the university that attended and they were all on our facebook feed talking about what happened when they were there and how it lined up exactly with what is going on now -- nothing has changed. collectively, very proud of what the young people at the university of missouri were able to do under these circumstances, and we think it has applications broadly, nationally, because the issue is not only at the university of missouri. there is no state university in the country that i think the not faith that kind of -- does not face that kind of issue on some level coast to coast, and i think students can do what they are doing already -- get involved, and you see a beautiful synthesis of like-minded students from all backgrounds. not just black students, but white students, asians, hispanics students. you have international is coming together to say we wanted world and a country where we are all ,qually valued and respected our dignity, lives, futures. we are going to work together to create that in spite of this nation's is and in spite of the powers in place who would write against these young people to sustain -- would fight against these young people to sustain the system we are in now. professor hoffman: we will get some microphones set up to ask questions, but do you have any strategies in mind that could kick off these changes that would better change the justice system. comes from emily. you mentioned ways to change the practices and police department. what are practical things that could happen now? mr. hudson: there are two. i do not believe in broad programs, but there are two and they dovetail nicely. the one is on me and us and those in the system. i am a firm believer that significant part of the change that we want to see has to come from inside of the system. the people system have the most immediate opportunity and power to really force change in it. thatecond thing is to add effort to the already existing movement that is on the ground, from coast to coast, to work together with folks from everywhere -- black lives matter, and the other positive. there is movement -- any other positive movement. there is movement to work with those organizations for the changes we want to see. with that pressure coming from the outside and a critical mass of people inside the system willing to have the same commitment to change, i think we can see it happen, and i think the climate in the country is ripe for it here. anybody -- it on is not lost on anybody that the demographics in the country are changing, and i think, unfortunately, many of the worst opponent of equal treatment under the law and equal access to opportunity are the people that would fight hardest against the changes that we want to see. there is no coincidence. none. it is not a coincidence that when barack obama was elected president, the covers came off. the covers came off. come on. as soon as he was elected president, he saw what nation pockets, and we saw a growing number of local -- vocal raises that are vehemently -- the merely opposed to black progress. and not have to give into that. we are allof the day americans and want what is best for our communities, families, country, and together we can move in that direction, but it has to be premised on the idea that equal treatment under the law has to become a reality and not just a narrative. -- hudson: professor hoffman: thank you for answering the question. i'm sure the audience has questions. we have microphones. we are open to questions. if you raise your hand, our come down and hand to the microphone to have a quest for hours -- question for our speaker. mr. hudson: did i do a really good job? professor hoffman: he answered all of your questions. mr. hudson: don't answer that. i'm setting myself up for the abuse when i ask that question. there comes the abuse. making the about police -- n between mr. hudson: i hear him. you cannot hear him? about what the it could be a- statement or something you can respond to -- i think we need to feel the uncomfortableness because people cannot understand without some kind of vulnerability. i think your point is well made. i agree with you. maybe i should add a different choice of words. rather than comfortable, i should have said accessible -- the way to get us into the space where we could be a little uncomfortable is to understand at the bottom of it nobody is under indictment. nobody is going to be guilty and innocent in the sense of people that are present and willing to work for change. so, yeah, there is going to be some discomfort. it is unavoidable because of who we are as a country, and when i say that, i am going to go ahead and share this -- well, i will say this for the end. there is a story i tell and i am sure it will be the guide, but it is -- vilified, but it is true. i will go ahead and tell it now. in three minutes. 86.ad died my mother was remarried three years later. nice guy. i would go by their home. the guy she married with joseph jones. he was an avid reader. he had a book on his table i happened to pick up and it was called "the black press" as media. it was about the black press in america from the mid-1800s to the early-1900s, and first of all, i was floored. i did not realize we had a black press at that time in our nation's history. and to see -- you can imagine the kinds of things they were writing about. they were all intelligently written articles, coherent, just really. -- brilliant. one.e across when i see the conditions we are trying to address the exist -- i came across one article, a response from an editor to a speech that he heard. this speech was given by a white man that he longed to the american, -- that belonged to the american colonization society and the american colonization society advocated for the repatriation of african-americans back to africa . they said they do not belong here. we want them out of here. they should go. let's put together an effort -- especially free blacks -- have to get out of the country. paper angrilythe responded to -- the rage was coming off the page -- this comment. i will do their research because i talk about it so much, i will be challenged, the book exists, but i am not clear if he was directly quoting the guy or thephrasing, but either way words on the page where these to the effect that" blacks to get out of this country. need them out of here because this country, america, the never treats, will them equally and value them equally. conscience, -- nor conscience, nor the bible, could make it so. let that sink in. religion, the bible -- not conscience -- the things that animate them in conduct, behavior, -- animate human conduct, behavior, and life, he believed, could let them treat blacks as anything they have ever been treated. or freezing -- francis got key -- francis got key's, the mant who wrote the national anthem. that is what he believed. intoi say we were born this reality, i mean it. when i say we have a real opportunity to bring substantive change to the nation, i believe it. we can do that, but we have to acknowledge the reality of who we are and where we have come from, and not just the narrative. we have ahoffman: question from twitter as well as some of my students, and jordan and brooke, and parker from twitter -- basically, you mentioned in several articles that racial sensitivity classes are not enough to help stop brutality. what are some other tactics you recommend for either preventing that, or repercussions? mr. hudson: the only one that works is punishment. the only thing that will get us to where we need to be his actual punishment for misconduct or violation. everything else will fall short. until we see officers incarcerated for their ,iolations, their criminal acts that is it. many officers can be dismissed from a department for misconduct, but only to be hired by the department in the next disability over or just municipality over or 1 -- municipality over, or county over. that is it. that is the bottom-line. professor hoffman: let's open it up to the audience for another question. raise your hand if there is a question over here. christie. christie: hi, so -- oh, gosh. as a student, i am studying public policy, and this is something very interesting to me. what can we do to solve this -- what actions can a normal person take or someone that wants to go into public service could do to help resolve this issue? mr. hudson: first and foremost, keep your foot on the gas. keep doing what you are already doing -- mobilizing, taking actions across the country. don't stop. don't give up. don't slow down. then, as you advance your career or career path, your ideals with you and get yourself in a position -- some public policy position, to affect public policy change, and be the same strong advocate in the public arena after you leave here as you are right. -- as you are right now. professor hoffman: and this is a question our students often have -- what can they do, where can they go from here? mr. hudson: pretty much what i told her -- keep doing what you are doing. -- are having a tremendous it is furious from the standpoint that somehow you would watch an officer doing his job prevents him from doing his job, what an indictment of the system that is. what they are telling you is that you watch me, i cannot work. that is ridiculous. you have an impact on the national discussion, the national agenda, which, in turn, is going to affect policy, ultimately. you are having an impact. continue to maintain your enthusiasm, energy, your clarity, and your conscience, and do the work that you do as you develop yourself individually, and keep it in the relationship that you are building. buildhowing us to community and bridges across the spectrum of people that come into contact with you. professor hoffman: i any technology and the impact of technology on politics, and i think around this issue we have seen people using cell phones and smartphones to capture incidents like a few weeks ago -- a viral video showing a research officer at a south carolina officer slamming a student to the ground, tossing her several feet across the floor. what rattled me the most was that none of this evidence reacted -- none of the other students reacted. this was a normal reality. the officer has been fired, but what can we do? mr. hudson: we need to remove these officers from the schools period. we never had officers in school. i was appalled. you talked about the students not reacting, i was more appalled by the african-american administrative said it was all right -- i am good with what happened. you must be crazy. for him to walk in and assault that child like that was beyond the pale, totally unnecessary, unjustifiable, and he should have been hired. it is that kind -- fired. it is that kind of reaction that reflects -- i am harking on it tonight, and i did not the guy was going to, but it is exactly why you hear people say black lives matter. had that been a white 16-year-old girl, he would not have touched her like that. he thought he could do it in that setting with that child, and that is a problem, and it goes to accountability. i am glad to see him gone, and i hope he is out of law enforcement altogether if that is going to be his approach to the children in my community. professor hoffman: i know we will have more questions from the audience. i hopefully will wrap up my questions with this 1 -- in delaware, as in other states, there is no minimum age for a child to be charged as an adult. ais varies by state, but in recent report by al jazeera america, black youth are over-represented. the suicide and sexual abuse rates of young prisoners are much higher than older prisoners. how should states and prisoners be treating youth as opposed to adults? mr. hudson: like his. -- like youth. their brains are different. i would not want to be held accountable for a decision i 13, 14 years old, for the rest of my life. i understand accountability, and there are serious crimes by young kids they need to be held accountable for, but to deprive them of the opportunity of redemption, of ever having the opportunity to give something back from those they have taken away from to become a productive member in our society -- that is not who we really are, and luckily, all of us should understand -- i would venture to guess there is not a person in this room -- i am not looking at a room full of angels. no, sir, and no, ma'am. i am under no illusion that anyone in this room, including myself, could easily have done some things that you got away with -- whatever, but here you are now at this stage in your life and this is the person you are, fully positioned and fully prepared to do something positive and great. i think that opportunity should be afforded to everyone after we have held them accountable for the things they do, but particularly the younger you are, and for drug-related offenses and things like that -- errors in judgment more than anything, we need to understand that our youth are our youth and treat them differently than we do adults in our system. mr. hudson: let's take a request -- professor hoffman: take another question from the audience. down here in the front. thank you, abby. >> thank you. accountability, i go back to want, -- why, detroit, the fires in 1967. and what wasrpton, marley. -- mr. hudson: i know sharp. >> he had the rally when it was found out it was incorrect she got raped. mr. hudson: the little girl. >> right. also looking at duke and the lacrosse -- where is the accountability from that side, and for you not to speak for issues on that side -- you were talking about police matters, but not the other side. why are you not standing up in questioning some of the people on the other side? whenssor hoffman: so, people are falsely accused of a crime that is race. mr. hudson: that is always wrong, but i came to talk about police mr. hudson: -- i came to talk about what i am talking about tonight. when it is discovered -- was discovered that they were unlawfully accused my that woman was held on several counts for what she had done. there are instances of people exploiting situations. sharpton has been accused of that. that young lady was guilty of that. the weight of the incidences that you and i can name that involve black people wrongly accused in the public sphere, discrediting whites in the public sphere, i think it personally pales in comparison to the number of blacks targeted by an -- and minorities targeted, and injured by a system that has been in place since the country's genesis. and it is this very moment when we sit and talk, sharpton was wrong for his false presentation of facts and band lady was wrong and i am glad that those players were exonerated. host: and the question. how about here. you have a green shirt on. so, considering the events in the past week with paris and refugees, president obama has made multiple statements regarding them may yet -- in them, but yet the trending topic or i guess the popular topic is that he said popoff in one of his speeches, do you think that the media is perpetuating stereotypes by focusing on the black things politicians do and not what these politicians stand for? mr. hudson: probably yes. but that is national media. i think that people are not sophisticated enough, the majority of people, to know that mainstream media is not necessarily the best source of information that you can have. i think that people take what they present to us at face value, we gleam from it what we will and look at other sources of information to give us a complete picture of whatever the issue is. but the media and this president have had a that kind of relationship for some time, particularly certain media outlets that would vilify him at every turn. i am not always in 100% agreement with some of the things the president says or yth,, that is a mess -- m that blacks no matter what we are rolling with president obama. i support him and the terms he has had, but there have been issues with which i would he hase in the positions taken. in media will do with the media does. they have to generate viewership . host: i think we have one more question on this side. back there. >> i will stand. mr. hudson: yes, sir. >> i am standing because i want you to see who i am. in this past saturday we had a conference here at the chase center in one of our auditoriums downtown. there were about 500 people, about a 40-60 mix of black and white and it really is and was all about this issue. i say is because that was the open end event of things to come. i am offering the group here, the young people asking what they can do, they can join that movement which is here in the delaware area. there are a lot of things going on. i will get to a question. mr. hudson: take your time. i am tired, man. left.only a few minutes i am a few years older than you, probably have a daughter your age. crack.son: see, we don't ,> the kind of question is where do we go from here? are we undertaking an impossible task? you went back in history. my mother worked this issue until she was 92 years old. i don't know if she ever liked white people during that time, but she worked with them in an effort to change the world. she did shut down a number of drugstores that would not serve black people. anyways, a lot of history in my life that keeps me going. and as i look at my grandchildren, my grandson, and all the issues of police that they have. i have been doing a lot of those areas. is there a solution? is it just a matter of staying with it and working at it? you mentioned there was never a time, where there was a pleasant time between the races of the country, so world -- so will there ever be? host: it almost sounds like, is there hope? are we fighting a losing battle? mr. hudson: my answer is, yes. there is hope. yes, i believe we are any position-- we are in a to see that you've all, to see a better relationship between the people who live in this country comingfferent races together, due to no snow -- no small part that the demographics are changing. that is not anything to be afraid of. what you'll find is people are people. it will not be about turning the tables and we're going to get you back. no. i do not believe that. there is going to be a greater focus on human rights and equality than in many proceeding generations -- preceding generations. all that work done between races and the civil rights movement -- but right now we see numbers changing and changing ideas and motivation and energy of the very people who are part of the changing numbers. so i think there is an opportunity if we seize it, if we have enough courage to acknowledge the reality of our country and what we want to be and do the work of getting to that place. i believe it will happen. i think i have to believe it. host: before i formally thank you for coming, i want to formally think everybody in the audience for being here. this has been a very important semester in talking about race. and i really want to as director of this series, to continue the dialogue online and on twitter, so please do not hesitate to contact me if you want to talk more about this. can message on twitter. thank you for being here. [applause] mr. hudson: thank you. >> on the next washington smilek talkeda about the federal reserve raising rates and job creation. o'hanlon talks about the role of isis. washington journal live with headlines. >> sunday night on q and a. talks about the second volume of mr. pearson's diaries, which gives an insider's take on washington, d.c. from 1960-19 69. -- 1960-1969. >> it was remarkable all those things he did. and sometimes he would criticize himself in the diary. he would say, i think that column was too strong, i could not -- i should not have said it that way. lyndon will be mad at me for the way that i wrote that column. but it needed to be told. and i am glad i wrote it. next, the conversation with karenindiana mayor freeman wilson. this is part of a forum on race relations and the criminal justice system hosted by the atlantic. [applause] host: thank you. at the joyce foundation is based in chicago. one of our concerns has been about gun violence in we focus on reducing access to guns. we believe that is a wonderful solution to reducing violence in our communities. tom pleased to be here and be able to talk with the mayor. i wanted to open with a video. it is a news story out of chicago. if we can get that to run please. >> deja brookshire was a resident in a local neighborhood, shot at seventh and danis. >> everything we have heard about the victim has been positive. >> she was riding in the backseat of a car, two other friends in the front seat on sunday night. >> they heard shots fired, the driver looked back and noticed the victim was bleeding. they rushed her to the hospital where she succumbed to injuries. >> they say it is a nice area, though outside influences have moved in. >> we have been complaining, try to get something done. police have been out here i don't know how many times. we told him that some but he would get shot. and it has happened. family.as out with i do not care what she may have been into, she did not deserve this. nobody deserves this. especially at such a young age. they have not even begun to live and they are dead. that is heartbreaking. that is heartbreaking. ellen: thank you. we just heard mayor -- mary landrieu talk about how it is the best job in the world, but the hardest job in the world. you are on the front lines like no one else. i want to take this conversation from statistics to the personal, because we have with us this morning a mayor who is very focused on top level policy issues, but also personally engaged in the challenges of violence in her community. we want to hear a little bit from you about what this particular case meant to you in your personal experience with the issue. mayor freeman-wilson: absolutely. thank you for the opportunity to share with you and all of the folks here. you are right, it is one thing to talk about it at a policy level, but to go and stand as i did at her funeral and look at her family, many of whom i had gone to school with, and the talk about the significance of her death not just individually, but to us as a community. to stand in an emergency room with a mom who is questioning her dead son, because he was , and to to be at home bury two teenage sons who had been simply walking to their grandmother's house for dinner. that could have been myself, my daughter a victim, robbed at gunpoint. it gives you a much more practical view. even more of a practical view than i had as a prosecutor, judge, as a public defender, to understand what violence is really doing in our community. ellen: one of the things i am adjusted in is how late -- mayors learn from each other. we learned from mayor landrieu about call ends, how he is making progress with that approach, have you tried a similar approach? mayor freeman-wilson: one of the great opportunities i have had is spending time in new orleans with mayor landry and his team and all -- and learn about the calling process. that comes out of mayor kennedy's work. to see it from a theoretical standpoint and to sit through a themin, we have had two of in gary, we are preparing for our third. it really does have an impact on the community to say to the young men who are most likely to be involved in violent acts, to say, we want to help you. we would rather that you achieve your greatest dreams and we will give you the solution, we will send you to the file that line. but at the same time we have to stop you from making these wrong decisions. if you make that wrong decision, we have to hold you accountable. thingi ne of the

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