Susan our guest of this weeks newsmakers is congressman luke messer of indiana. He is part of the House Leadership Team and chairman of the Republican Policy Committee. We have him with us for the next 25 minutes. Let me introduce you to reporters who ask you questions. Shivone. James arkin covers congress for real clear politics. We start out and i want to ask you a question about senator john mccain who had a serious diagnosis this week. In 2008, you are cochair of his indiana president ial campaign which give you special perspective on senator ccain. What is the impact of his absence on the policy agenda for republicans in congress . Rep. Messer john mccain is an american hero. There are times he says things i agree with another times he says things i do not agree with. No one ever questions his patriotism, his dignity, whether he is somebody who loves his country. He has literally given blood, sweat, and tears to the cause. First we think about john mccain and his health. Beyond that, it creates further challenges in the senate. Im sure we will talk about this quite a bit in the next 25 minutes. Right now, we are not where we want to be. As Republican Leaders. There has been a lot done for the last six months but its difficult to get major items through the senate if you dont have a full team over there. Shiobhan how problematic will it be for republicans if they are unable to pass legislation repealing the Affordable Care act this year . Rep. Messer we promised the American People we would repeal obama care and replace it with Something Better and that is what we need to do. As President Trump said, there is no other acceptable option. The reason is because millions of americans are hurting under the current law. I hear from hoosiers in indiana, who talk about how they pay a premium of up to 1,000 a month with a policy with a 10,000 deductible, middleclass families are 30,000 outofpocket before they get to their Health Insurance and thats just not ok. I mean, weve got to step forward with an answer and come together and figure it out. I still believe that is ultimately what will get one. Siobhan your colleague dennis roth issued a stern statement where he said he was upset with the senate. Are you upset with the senate . Rep. Messer absolutely. Absolutely i am upset with the senate. Listen, there are a majority of senators who have promised the American People they would repeal obamacare and replace it with Something Better. My house colleagues passed a bill and sent a bill to the senate that does that and they have so far they have gotten crickets. Weve gotten nothing. It is unacceptable. Its my understanding that the leader, Mitch Mcconnell, said at a minimum, there would be a vote on a repeal only bill in ill that got 51 votes the senate before and i say no reason that cant pass. I think that is where the making people are. They want to see something done. James congressman, if the senate is unable to pass repeal and replace, majority leader mcconnell has said they would have to work with democrats and find some sort of solution to sure up the individual marketplace this year. Do you think the house to pass something to temporarily shirk the individual marketplace . Rep. Messer failure is not an option. As President Trump has said, we need to stay here until we get it done. The senators promised that they would. We have done it in the house. Beyond that, i do not think bailing out obamacare and funding a program in a death spiral is the right way to help the American People. I would have a hard time supporting legislation like that. What i want us to do is keep our promise to the American People, repeal obamacare, and replace it with something etter. Siobhan President Trump said congress should stay in through august if the bill does not get past sin. Do you agree . Rep. Messer i think we do need to stay until we get major legislation passed. We have a lot to do this year. We have got to get the government funded, we need to repeal obamacare, we need to have major tax relief, which is what we promise to the American People. The president has spoken often and eloquently about the need for a better infrastructure package, building better bridges and roads and pwba and we need to get that done too. We have got 200 bills in the house that are sitting over in the senate that have not been acted on. My colleagues in the house feeling we have done a lot already, but yet, on the bigticket items, we are not yet where we need to be. James congressman, one of the big ticket items you mentioned is tax reform. In order to detect reform through budget reconciliation, which is the plan that has been laid out, you would first have to pass a budget in the house and a lot of conservatives say they cant support the budget. The Committee Last night and there are a lot of questions about whether or not there is enough republican support. Do you think republicans are in a position to pass the budget and what happens to tax reform if you cant . Rep. Messer we better be. It is not acceptable for the House Republicans to not be able to come together and pass a budget. I probably threw some double negatives in there. My High School English teacher might not like it but what im trying to say is we need to pass a budget because it is the right thing to do for the American People, because we are continuing on a spiral of debt that is bad not only for the Economy Today but few are for but for future generations. We need to pass a for the reasons you described. That is the track. That is the avenue we can use o pass major tax reform, and tax relief that will help the American People and get the economy going again. So, failure is not an option here oort and this one is on us. The House Republican team has to come together and figure out a way to get a budget passed. I appreciate chairwoman diane blacks leadership on the issue. She did a yeomans job here. E were excited to see a bill mentim optimistic we will get a bill passed in the coming weeks. Siobhan does the budget need to come to the house floor next week . Rep. Messer there is hope it will. We all know to get tax reform done we are likely going to have to pass a budget. The budget should come to the floor only have the votes to pass it. My hope is that will be as soon as next week. James you mentioned funding government appropriations. We know a package of four appropriation bills are likely to come and the rest of the appropriations will be by the wayside and possibly not come to the floor until september. Where do things stand to keep the government open in september . How concerned are you about a potential shutdown showdown . Mr. Messer well, the American People expect us to keep the government open. When we are in charge of the house and senate and presidency, it would not be acceptable for the government to shut down. We cannot allow that to happen. I did have some conversation right before i came here today with leadership and the House Appropriations committee and i believe you will see the house work hard to have a comprehensive appropriations package passed over and give policy and riders the on the securityrelated measures that you talked about before. We were elected to govern. We need to get things done. It has been a tough week here. Obviously some disappointing news on health care in the senate for now, but getting funding bills passed is an important part of governing. Susan this has been a threat through all of your answers. What do you see at the political consequences for putting your members with a lack of accomplishments on the legislative front . Rep. Messer again, there have been some legislative chievements. Major Veterans Affairs reforms just last week. We in the house have passed the obamacare reforms that we promised. Yeah, youve hit it. We were sent here to govern. That means we need to pass a tax package. We need to pass Major Health Care reform. We need to have an infrastructure package. We need to secure our border. That is what we promised we would do and it is long past time we start to get it one. There is a possibility here if everything falls apart in the senate, for example, that we would include most of the elimination of the obamacare packages. We will have to be treated about how we get to our solution, but its not acceptable to continue on the current path. That is what the president has said. The public is well aware of the eetings he had with the senate where he has called them to task and said the American People sent us here to get these big items done. I agree with the president that is what we have got to do. We need to do it because it is the right thing to do for the American People. The political consequences will take care of themselves. Siobhan to put a finer point on susans question, are House Republicans at risk of losing control of the house of they feel they have major legislative achievements this year . Rep. Messer that is the farthest thing from my mind and we need to deliver for the American People. We promised the American People we would get big ticket items done. We are only as a quarter of the way into the twoyear term. We have got time to get it done but we need to do will be said because that is the right thing to do. James congressman, talk about your own personal situation for a second. You have been raising a lot of oney and there has been a lot of speculation about a run for senate. A lot of people think you will be running for the Upper Chamber come 2018. Do you plan to announce anything anytime soon on that . Rep. Messer we will make a final decision in the coming days and weeks. Look, ive been encouraged by all the folks across indiana, hoosiers from all across the state who have said i consider my family, we ought to consider running for the United States senate. Its clearly important that we be able to move a legislative agenda there. Frankly part of the challenges we have faith of these big items i talked about, taxes, on infrastructure, on health care is how partisan the climate has been. The fact that democrats are not really interested in working with us on these topics, but those decisions will come soon enough. Siobhan have you had conversations with Vice President mike pence about your Senate Prospects . I know you are fairly close to him. Mr. Messer mike and i are good friends. He was my predecessor in congress. His brother is a finance chairman of our statewide finance committee. Certainly i have had brief conversations. I appreciate his private counsel, and ill leave it at that. Siobhan you cannot tell us what mike pence has counseled you to do . R. Messer no, i cannot. James another member of the conference, congressman rokita, is going to run for that as well. There has been a lot of back and forth, a lot of criticism between the two of you even though neither has announced. I wonder if you are concerned that a primary between republicans, a messy primary could hurt republicans chances to win a seat next year. Rep. Messer to be fair and clear, it is not criticism back and forth. Todd rokita opened his campaign by attacking my wife and her career and attacking my family. All i have done is respond and say hey, that is beyond the pale. We will not campaign in a way where we will do anything and say anything to get elected. I ultimately trust hoosiers to figure this out. I am not worried about a primary in the sense that hoosiers are smart. They get it. When people distort the truth and twist facts, hoosiers will figure that out. I think what were trying to figure out as a family, whats our calling, how can we best serve the country and the state . Is that the seat we are currently in, where im proud to be representing indianas sixth Congressional District and proud to be part of the Leadership Team trying to get things done for america . Or is it the United States senate . In a race that will be one of the top targets all across the country . And part of why i am not announcing to you today what were going to do is our family hadnt figured it out yet either. Were working our way through that. Were honored by all the people that has stepped forward to support us and well make that decision based on that calling, not on any bickering or distortions in a primary. Susan we have about 12 minutes left in the conversation. Siobhan to move back to the policy agenda, what needs to happen on raising the debt ceiling . Rep. Messer it is a difficult challenge. The American People are tired of the nation continuing to pile up debt. What i have said in the past is to support increases to any debt ceiling, i need to see spending reforms. Need to see steps taken to stop the trend of spending money we do not have. I think that is where most of the House Republican conference is. Hey would have a hard time supporting any whats come e be known as a carte blanch open debt ceiling increase without policy reforms. My guess is that is where we have to be as a conference, you have to have spending reforms as well. James can you detail any specific conversations of the specific spending reforms that House Republicans would like to see go along with the debt raise . Mr. Messer well, youve seen the debt package which includes a couple hundred billion dollars in mandatory spending reforms. Weve been i think as a conference very clear over the period of the last several years in passing budgets year after year after year that would balance within at least 10 years. Frankly, i voted for budgets that would balance far quicker than that. It could be done. I was part of the state legislative effort in indiana to balance the budget in our state in one year. It can be done if we make hard choices. Ultimately thats something were going to have to continue to work on and deliver on in the coming months. Siobhan will there be any consequences for House Speaker paul ryan if you brings a clean ill to the floor and passes with mostly democrats . Rep. Messer i would be surprised if that happens with the speaker, but paul ryan is in strong position in our conference. What we are focused on as a team is how do we get these bigticket items done for the American People. Paul ryan is our leader and im certainly proud to work with them to try to deliver. James there have been a lot of republican members that have expressed frustration with the lack of progress with the legislative agenda. Do you think the white house has been actively engaged in the legislative agenda . We know President Trump has not yet held a Campaign Rally to drum up support for the health care effort. He called the Republican Health care bill mean in a private meeting after you passed it. Is the white house doing their job to sell this legislative genda . Rep. Messer one of the chief leaders on legislative affairs for the white house is my good friend mike pence. I am proud of the effort he is made, regularly meeting with embers and senators to get the agenda done. The early stages of any Team Sometimes creates challenges. The president has been clear that we need to move past talk and start to deliver. I believe that is what you will see in the coming months and that is what the american i can tell you with all the intrigue and palace conversations, when i get back home to indiana, people want to know, when are we going to get these big things done . When we will cut taxes and when we will get rid of obama care . When will we start having infrastructure and secure our borders . That is what we want to see and what we have been called to do and what we were elected for. I know my colleagues know that. We have got to set aside differences and come together and deliver for the American People. Siobhan you mentioned mike pence but not President Trump. Does mr. Trump need to get out there and himself publicly campaign for a health bill . Rep. Messer look, just that was not just highlighting mike pence as my friend. President trump has been very clear in where he stands on the need for us to repeal obamacare, to have an infrastructure package, to pass tax reform. I think the president has been very clear and very strong in his leadership. I do not think there is any ambiguity about where he stands. He has spoken out publicly and certainly had many private meetings. I know when we were trying to move the bill through the house, the president was key to getting it passed, including coming on a day when it passed and spoke to the entire conference. I think the president has led nd will continue to lead here. Susan bringing it back to house politics, the House Freedom caucus at a conference this week about major agenda items. Leadership has been having this constant negotiation with the reedom caucus members. Where do you think their influence will be at this point in time and what do you want to get done legislatively . Rep. Messer we represent a diverse conference. Our republican members in the swing seat district seats in he northeast or california have a slightly different philosophy the numbers coming from solid conservative districts in the deep south. I represent a conservative district in southeastern indiana. We will have our differences and that is ok. Ultimately, we have got to make ure the differences do not get in the way of us delivering on these big ticket items we have talked about today. I am optimistic we will get that done. E have passed 200 bills in the house that are now sitting in languishing over the senate. In part because the senate has the focus on appointment in the Trump Administration among the other items they are trying to work through. A lot has been done. Even more needs to get done given my message today would be we understand that. That is what you see is focused on in the coming six months. Susan we have six minutes left in the interview. James a lot of house members ave echoed the frustration. Some called for the removal of the filibuster for legislative items. I know you will not announce this here, but if you ultimately run for the senate, would you advocate for moving the filibuster . Rep. Messer i think we should go back to the physical ilibuster. We all are very the iconic movie mr. Smith goes to washington, where Jimmy Stewart stands and reads from phonebooks and calls the attention of the American People to what he thought was wrong. Given great programs like cspan and all of the National Newscasts we have today, never in the history of the republic could an individual member of the senate call the imagination of the American People to an issue like today. If you have a physical filibuster where a member of the United States senate has to actually come to the floor and further debate through the filibuster, i think that would be amazing and a way to preserve this great historic tradition. Unfortunately, what has happened with the filibuster is instead of being what it was originally intended to do, a ool used to further and enrich the debate, it is now used as a tool to cut it off. A member files the sheet of paper and the senator files a sheet of paper, and the issue goes away unless you can get a high enough vote total to break the filibuster. That is not how it was originally intended and i think that compromise, having a physical filibuster, would allow us to protect the rights of the minority as the filibuster was intended to do while allowing legislative usiness to take place in the senate. Siobhan jump ahead a little bit to tax reform, how wedded are you to deficit neutral tax reform . How important is that to you . Rep. Messer that is a debate within our conference. My number one priority in tax reform is figuring out whether our reform is a path to 4 growth. If you look at americas policies over the last several decades, the only time we have actually paid down the National Debt was in that period of time in the 1990s we had 4 growth. So to me, thats our number one target. Washington speak they use this phrase paid for tax cuts. Unless you are spending subsidies or raising tax somewhere else, youre not allowed to cut taxes. Istory tells us there are some taxes you can cut that would actually increase your revenues because the economy grows and more people have good paying jobs. And even though the percentage taxes paid or lower, the coffers for the government is higher. That is what i want to see us o. We are working our way through the dilemma. I am optimistic we will get a progrowth tax cut package passed this year. James do you support the border adjustment tax that Speaker Paul Ryan and kevin brady support . Rep. Messer there has been a obust debate on that topic and i have not taken a public position because i am frankly working my way through understanding it. I am sympathetic to the idea that we ought not give Foreign Countries a better deal when competing against american businesses than they give us in their countries. We have a situation now where American Products are exported and foreign products get a benefit. That does not make sense and it does not help create american jobs. There are big consequences to the Retail Industry and anufacturers of having a border tax. I do not have, im just not clear on where i will come down at the end on the. This is what i do believe, though. That border tax is going to be very difficult to persuade the American People in the coming weeks in the limited amount of time we have. I want to see us step away from he border tax of eight and border tax debate and move into a tax relief package. Susan we have about two minutes left. A final question for each. Siobhan talking about tariffs, what is your position on the nafta rewrite . Do you ask any asks as part of that process . Rep. Messer i represent Manufacturing America in east central and southeastern indiana. It is clear that nafta has been a good deal for some and a bad eal for many others. I support the effort to renegotiate nafta. I think it is smart and we need to modernize it. Of course the details will matter as we work through it. James we have talked about a lot of big issues pending before congress. Ow difficult will it be in 2018 to make an affirmative case for electing republican members to congress if things Like Health Care and tax reform ave not gotten done . Rep. Messer it will be a challenge. Listen, we need to deliver for the American People. We all know that. Believe by the time we get to 2018, we will have passed major tax reform, and if researcher package, we will pass repeal of obamacare, and a path toward replacement with a much better system. That is what i think we will ultimately be judged on in 2018. By the way, that is where most americans are. When i go home and talk to hoosiers, they want to give us time to do it right and they want to see us to deliver but they expect us to deliver. Susan congressman luke messer, chairs the Republican Policy Committee in the house of representatives, our guest this eek on cspans newsmakers, thank you for your time. Ur reporters questioning mr. Messer and he underscored several times in the conversation that they have not done enough in congress and particularly in the house on their delivery of promises to voters. When you look at things right now, it was a good bit of a muddle. What you see when you talk to the Leadership Team about their path forward to get legislative achievements under their belt . James it seems to me that they are under a critical juncture here. There was a lot of frustration. I think we heard that in the interview that things have not gotten done. If you remember back in january, the plan was to Pass Health Care in the first couple of months and have tax reform by the august recess. They dont have health care by the august recess. Tax reform is not yet settled. I think there is a lot of frustration and there is sort of a realization that if things t start breaking quickly breaking the logjam on some of these issues, they could be looking at november and december and a lot of things not getting done. At that point, the legislative agenda is in deep trouble. Susan where are democrats . They seemed fired up about their opportunities. You talked about seats being in peril. We are beginning to see more Democratic Candidates with their names in the ring for house seats. What of the politics of all of this . Siobhan democrats clearly see they have an opportunity and republicans even at the highest vel, very inside people say, yes, we agree we are at risk of losing the house in 2018. You saw the rnc chair yesterday basically say, guess what, the Senate Majority could be at risk. Susan we were talking before we started about tools the leadership has to really enforce consensus. Other than the power of persuasion, what kinds of tools oes the leadership have to bring recalcitrant members on board . Siobhan Republican Leaders have so many few tools after earmarks were got rid of. They can try to use Committee Assignments but that is a problem because there was blowback a lifetime john boehner try to do that and he had to quickly reverse it. Paul ryan is a fundraiser so that is one way he can help. But i saw plenty of members who he helped fund raise balk when he asked them to vote his way. Not much power there. Susan a question on the Freedom Caucus. The congressmans response was we have a diversity within our conference across the board, but how problematic has the Freedom Caucus been for the Leadership Team . James the Freedom Caucus has been problematic for a couple of years now. We are seeing those problems cause even bigger trouble for republicans now they control government. They have enough votes they can stop even republican measures and obviously democrats are pretty unlikely to support anything so if the Freedom Caucus opposes something its not going to get through the house. They know that and they use that power to their advantage to force things to become more conservative. As soon as things become conservative, republicans have a hard time with the moderate votes. We have seen things play out where it makes it that much tougher to get these difficult things through. Susan it sounds like it mimics the problem Mitch Mcconnell has with his moderate and conservative members in the senate. Siobhan it absolutely does, but one difference i will point out is you have a republican president , President Trump, and he has been pretty influential with the Freedom Caucus. To the degree that you saw the health bill that failed earlier this year pass after trump intervened. Some Freedom Caucus members clearly felt the pressure. In that sense, paul ryan is probably in better shape than Mitch Mcconnell because senators are more impervious to the president than the house members are. Susan were you surprised at the level of support mr. Messer gave to President Trump . The question you raise about President Trumps big event at the white house after health care passed and then calling the bill mean which has been reverberating throughout the country . Is the president doing all he can to help the legislative agenda in congress . James when you talk to lawmakers privately, they acknowledge pushing have been from the white house to sell this to the American People. One thing is health care is a difficult legislative item. People cared deeply about it and it is an emotional issue. You need to have the president who has the bully pulpit using that the sell the bill and get numbers some cover. That was really lacking. There is frustration. In a private conversations in the meetings, the president and the house clearly had an effect. Publicly, the support and the persuasion just has not been there to give them cover on it. Susan mr. Messer announced the importance of Vice President pence on capitol hill. What do you know from your reporting about the role that hes been playing . Siobhan mike pence is on the hill all the time. I see him pretty much weekly talking to senators or congressmen. He is very influential in particular with conservatives but not exclusively. He is viewed as someone who is credible and has experience but that said it is not enough. It may be necessary but not sufficient to get bigticket items across the line. Susan well, lets close with the week ahead. There was discussion whether they would have a vote on this budget. What do you know about what the chances are of that . James well, conservatives in the house insist they have enough votes to prevent it from
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