Questions in studio were joined by heather long, economic reporter with Washington Post and sahil kapur a bloomberg news. Sahil , youre up first. Neil thank you so much for joining us. I want to ask you about one of the issues a top of the congressional agenda funding the government. How worried are you about a Government Shutdown . The president said he will insist on a border wall. The you think he was right in digging in . I think concern about a Government Shutdown is growing. I am not prepared to say it is likely at the moment. I think it is right we should be concerned and thinking about it. In terms of drawing a line here, my experience has been whoever tries to hold government funding hostage to get something, its usually not a strategy that historically worked out very well. It seems to me there are better ways for the president to get his priority of a border wall done other than threatening of Government Shutdown. Any concerns about the debt limit being raised . Niel i feel like were in a better path to the debt limit. There seems to be agreement in white house and senate and house. This is something that has to be done and needs to be done in a timely fashion. I think theres less concern about debt limit and probably more concern about potential Government Shutdown. At what point do you think members will be concerned. Were talking little over a week before labor day. When does it start to become an issue for members . Niel i think we have to see how september plays out. These things usually have highs and lows and ramp up. You want to watch where the rhetoric ramps down. You will see who joins and drawing these lines. I think we will know a lot more a couple of weeks into september. One of the things were doing at the chamber is remind folks the consequences of Government Shutdown what that means to other priorities, the ability of businesses to permit and function, ability of people to get their visas to go on vacation or Something Like that. We have time. No one hitting the panic button yet. Well be reminding policymakers that nothing really good comes out of Government Shutdown. Heather the Biggest Issue this tax reform. Take us through where were at now. Its been a month since that statement came out that was just very broad based, have they actually is there cohesion between the white house and congress on how to pay for tax reform or tax cut . Niel heather, i think they are making a lot of progress. The principles are out of town. Their staffs are here. Theyre doing a lot of work. Our sense is they are closing the gap on the concrete outlines of tax reform plan. I wouldnt be surprised if we saw a fairly detailed proposal. Perhaps end of september beginning of october. ,it will provide a framework for them to work off of. You mentioned the group of six announcement kind of end of july , the beginning of august. We took that as a positive sign. In some respects is a finally resolved that they were moving past the top line, here is the talking point we want to achieve. They realized theyre going to be tradeoffs here. The rate competes with what youre willing to close in terms of loophole. You will make those tradeoffs to arrive. Heather lets talk about the tradeoffs little more. Whats the Business Community willing to put on the table to trade off and make this happen . Is the chamber supporting lot of people talking about the mortgage Interest Deduction possibly going away . Is that something that the chamber would be willing to support . Niel were focused on the business side. Both corporations and small businesses. Mortgages interest is less a part of that. We found universally talking with our members the lower the rate is, the effective tax rate, the much more willing to give up an increasing number of deductions. This is all about achieving competitiveness. We are a long way from having internationally competitive tax code at the moment. Theres a pretty strong growing willingness to give up deductions and give up credits and get back to a competitive tax code. Heather in your mind what is that rate . Is it under 20 . Niel well, people would love a rate under 20. The president talked about 15 . Wouldnt that be fantastic . Internationally competitive, youre somewhere in the 20s. The lower we get the better off we are. At 35 federal corporate rate, cutting that by a third or more and getting in the 20s, thats really going to help grow the economy and create jobs. You mentioned the progress that the group of six made in congressional leaders made. They have not announced any sort of decision yet. Do you have a sense of what is likely to be on the table in terms of closing loopholes . State and local taxes, is it carried interest . Is there anything to have her the gift of the sense they are ready to raise real money to pay down the rate cuts . yeah, if you go back to the blue print that House Republicans released a year ago. If you look at the policies the white house has talked about, certainly on the individual side, state and local. The Current System of unlimited state and local Tax Deduction is something that is clearly on the table. The tradeoff for increasing the standard deduction as families pay taxes. On the business side, certainly Interest Deductibility is something thats on the table. Carried interest gets talked about a lot. It is pretty small in terms of dollar amount. But again, as you get the rates lower, all those things matter a lot less. Do you think the corporate rate to come down below 25 . Niel i think it is possible will see it below 25 . Before we leave the group of six, what are your thoughts on the group of six setting aside the border adjustment act . Whether do you think that was a good idea or not. Niell niel its a matter of necessity. Leaving aside the policy. It was pretty clear there wasnt the support for a border adjustable tax in congress. You cant let one policy hold up progress in the rest of the tax reform. Setting that aside unlocked their ability to make progress on some of the other issues. In that respect, it was the right call. How did your members feel about border adjustment . Niel there were member on both sides. One of the things depended on what your business was and how you operated and whether youre an importer or exporter, kind of your colored your view on the border adjustable tax. The thing we found the most was really kind of a lack of understanding and lot of questions about how it would work. Its a pretty radical step for the u. S. Tax code to move to a border adjustable system like that thats base on consumption. I think the first thing was create a lot of questions. Heather another controversial one thats come up this week, is the notion that taxing 401k retirement plans. That does go to the heart of some Business Issues and saving issues in america. Has the chamber taken a stance . Niel we have talked to senate and house about the importance of Retirement Savings to individuals. The importance of it as a benefit that the employers provide. My sense is that policymakers are unlikely to do something that results in a disincentive to say for retirement. Heather sounds like you will be in on that one. Niel listen, the important way to approach tax reform is to approach it in its totality. Its important to see it the whole package with the tradeoffs are and whether that leads to growth. My sense of it is, the tax treatment of retirement is really about retirement saves. Not really about tax code and raising revenue. I think there is a strong desire Business Community, republican , and democrats in congress. If anything, to strengthen incentives for retirement speaking totality, one of the Big Questions republicans are pondering on capitol hill, whether this is permanent as speaker ryan and leader mcconnell said. Or it would be a series of temporary rate cuts it with my like 2001 and 1986 would you to be a temporary tax cut that expires in the budget window if congress will raise the money to pay this down permanently . Niel we got to start whats the best for improving the economy, creating jobs and raising wages. Clearly the best policy you can in the tax reform era is something that is permanent. The goal is we want to eliminate the disincentive in the current tax code that causes Companies Committee move abroad or locate facilities abroad. Instead we want to make the u. S. Competitive. We want to incentivize u. S. Companies to invest here to create factories here. We want to incentivize Foreign Companies to locate facilities here. Thats the goal, then clearly the best way to do and encourage companies to make those long term decisions is through a permanent change in the tax code. The risk that you run with a temporary measure is that people arent going that make the long term business decision. Long term growth decision i think everyone is hoping they will make as a result of tax reform. In a Bigger Picture standpoint were about seven , months in this presidency. They dont have major legislative achievement to brag about. Tax reform is the next big thing they trying to do. If they dont succeed, what do you think it would mean . Do you think it would affect the way the chamber interacts with republicans . Niel actually we made very clear end of july, our ceo, tom donohue sent open her to member of congress. Tax reform is not an option. First, failing to do tax reform is not an option. This is what our economy needs and its what American Families need. This is once in a Generation Opportunity for policymakers to enact tax reform. The second point, were going to hold them accountable. We do a lot in the political space every two years. About whether or not they help get tax reform across the finish line or whether they stood in the way. Thats going to be a big factor as we think ahead to the 2018 midterm and ultimately the 2020 generals. The people help get tax reform done. Tell us more about that. What do you mean hold them accountable. Potentially support primary challengers the people who get in the way . Niel we have to see what individuals help or hinder getting tax reform done. Our belief is, tax reform will get across the finish line. Get across the finish line relatively soon. Well all enjoy the benefits of what that means. We engaged pretty heavily in the political process. Weve engaged in primaries and general elections and endorsed candidates we have done that for over 40 years. There is no question when you have an opportunity like this if , theres a failure, you have to look closely who is responsible for that failure and what that means. You noted twice, you engage havilland in the political sphere. How much the chamber will be spending in 2018 . We dont talk numbers. We do engage actively. Weve been engaged in some of the primary special elections that occurred already this year. Well see how much progress weve made on the policy. Well see where the politics are and that will drive our decision. How much do you spend in the last midterm . Just to give folks what big means . Niel well dont talk numbers. Were seven or eight figure organization. Heather we understand the chamber about ready to do some advertising spending on tv to try to educate people around the country how critical tax reform is. Can you tell us what areas youre targeting . Targeting the Freedom Caucus . Is there moderates . What will be the Sticking Point do you think towards getting this tax reform done . Niel we are preparing to go on tv advertising and support tax reform. That is a supplement to what we have been doing already. The three weeks of august, our team both here in d. C. , across the country, done 120 plus events focused on tax reform, most of those were with members of congress, members of the senate. Pushing on the issue. That will be supplemented paid television. Were not quite prepared to announce what states and congressional districts. We dont view this as one part of the Republican Party or one part versus another or a particular ours versus them. Youll see us talking to the entire spectrum of the republican conference, but also talking to democrats and our advertising about the need it get tax reform done. Are you expecting the next stage of this process to come from the white house . There was mixed signal of potential document emerging from the white house in early september. It seems more likely that the committees will take the wheel on the hill. What is your take on it . Niel i think the committees are taking the lead. Its possible that we see kind of further refinements of the product, group of six revealed in in outline. Well see some fill in that the white house would be involved as a part of announcing. I think were quickly reaching the point where were kind of moving from broad outlines to actually drafting legislation. Thats going to be directed by the committees in the house and the senate. We have about ten minutes left in conversation with neil bradley. You talked about support during the election cycle. What is does it take to get support from the chamber during election . Is there a litmus test of certain issues . Obviously this time around, i assume supporting tax reform will be on that list. Niel for about 40 plus years, the chamber has had a score card based on key votes. The chamber identifies before lawmakers take a vote in house and senate, this is an important piece of legislation, the Business Community and we want to see it pass. We believe this is a piece of legislation that would be detrimental to the Free Enterprise system. We communicate that to members of the house and members of the senate. At the end of each year, we look back over all those vote. We look to see how members voted. Generally to be endorsed by the u. S. Chamber, you have had to have a probusiness, pro Free Enterprise vote record at least 70 of the time. We also look at their historical averages as members come back year after year. They are consistently with the Business Community or they consistently with expanding opportunities for jobs and wage growth or they consistently on the other side. Are your member concerned about the president s response in the wake of Charlottesville Violence . Niel i think weve been focused on what our response is. Our ceo sent a note out to all the chamber employees talking about our core values. Theres no room in the Chamber Organization for racism, for hate, for any of some of the ugliness that we saw in charlottesville and weve seen in other places. We also talked about our core mission. Our core mission is the protection and the further of furtherance of the Free Enterprise system that really gives people the opportunity to go wherever their abilities can take them. In the midst of all the post charlottesville discussion, weve focused on our work to protect that system and further it. Thats what weve been doing for over a hundred years. And we will continue to engage of policymakers to continue doing that. The back and forth between president and senator mcconnell. Hes gone after some other republican senators. How do you see this impacting the legislative agenda . Is this unhelpful . Niel its not helpful. I think clearly it is not helping move the agenda along. That said, a lot of people jump to conclusion that its somehow its fatal to the legislative agenda. Fatal to getting tax reform done. I dont believe that either. My sense from talking with folks in the house, folks in the senate, other folks in washington is even in all of this, the folks on capitol hill including leader mcconnell, are , really kind of putting their nose and figuring out they get things across the finish line. Its certainly not helpful. I dont think its fatal to the agenda. Heather do you think theres too much uncertainty . Is the white house and all the drama going on just creating a dynamic where businesses dont want to invest and not help the economy grow more . Because weve seen really anemic Capital Spending for the Business Community for years now. It seemed like we were finally going to have a clarity with a pro growth president. Yet daytoday, theres all this whiplash and drama that isnt focused on these core issues that could help in the Business Community. Niel i think were making progress to restore some level of certainty. The untold policy story of 2017 in our opinion is whats been done on the regulatory side. The regulatory rollback that occurred in the first part, the action of agencies currently undertaking as they roll back the regulatory overreach. Particularly of the last several years. Thats improving the climate for Business Investment. Other key part of that is tax reform. I think one of the reasons youre not seeing more of a rush to investments people want to see how that plays out. And what the resolution is. That gets back to sahils earlier point about permanency. If you really want to unlock that type of Capital Investment that you need, thats kind of the seed of future growth, permanent pro growth tax reform is kind of the linchpin. Thats one of the reasons that were pushing so hard to get it done. Heather if we did tax reform, do you think that takes the economy to 3 growth economy . Niel well, i certainly dont see how we get there without it. Theres a lot of factors that will contribute to whether or not we get to 3 or beyond 3 . If were stuck with the current tax code, very difficult to see how we get the capital allocations right and incentives right for Business Investment to ever return to 3 plus growt