Transcripts For CSPAN Newsmakers 20150524

He is the chairman of the Veterans Affairs committee. Senator, thank you for joining us this weekend. Senator isakson great to be with you. Happy memorial day. John mcardle thank you, sir. You, too. In the studio to help with the questions, we are joined by Rebecca Adams of cq roll call and matthew daly of the associated press. Senator, i want to start with this weekend marks the oneyear anniversary since the resignation of former va secretary eric shinseki. In the year since that resignation, are veterans getting the care and access they need, in your opinion . Senator isakson well, in the last 12 months since he resigned, we have begun the process of reforming the v. A. To give veterans better access and better choice and to begin to deal with the systemic problems of the v. A. We have a long way to go, but we are making improvements. Rebecca adams senator, thank you for joining us. I wanted to talk to you about some comments that House Speaker john boehner made on wednesday. He said that not enough has changed at the v. A. And that more people need to be fired. I know you have called secretary Robert Mcdonald a change agent but you also talked about the need to change the culture. What do you expect Terry Mcdonnell to do to change the culture and where do we go from here . Senator isakson i have personally told secretary mcdonnell that we have his back. If he needs to take action to fire people and correct things he needs to go ahead and do it and not feel lawsuits or retribution. There has been a culture in the v. A. That was a pushback culture. They really didnt want change, they didnt really want oversight, but that has got to take place. The v. A. Health care is the secondlargest agency of the federal government. 314,000 employees. You have heard of too big to fail . Its almost too big to succeed. And it is really time we gave him the tools to do the hiring and firing necessary to bring about accountability in the v. A. I think he has the man for the job. I hope you will take the initiative. Rebecca adams do you expect any additional legislation along these lines . There is a bill that is pending in congress that would expand some changes you all made last year in the veterans choice act. You made it easier to fire some the employees and there are some in Congress Want to expand that to a larger proportion of the v. A. Workforce. What do you think the prospects are for that kind of legislation . Senator isakson we have a very aggressive and large agenda, with regards to v. A. Reform, including expansion of hiring and firing. Or what i like to call accountability, which is the most important mechanism that we need. So that legislation will be at our next Committee Meeting for markup and hearings is june 3. We have eight bills on there for change agents for the v. A. So you are going to see a lot of activity in the senate Veterans Affairs committee. Matthew daly senator, this is matthew daly at the ap. I wanted to ask you about the there is a big project out at denver. They are trying to build a va hospital and it is more than 1 billion over budget, which is really hard for some folks to believe anything could be that much over budget, much less only half finished. What do you think about their problems out there . Do think it symbolizes the fact that the v. A. Really has trouble getting anything done . Senator isakson it is a disaster. I took the Senate Committee to denver. We toured the entire facility, met with the contractors reviewed the progress of the project over the last 14 years. When the press in denver asked me what i thought of the hospital, i said i thought the hospital was a camel. They said, what do you mean . I said, a camel is a horse built by committee. And that is exactly what that hospital is. There are too many cooks, not enough people in the kitchen and not enough direction. Not enough accountability. The v. A. Does not need to be building anything. Their job is to provide health care and benefits to our veterans. One of the things we will be doing this year before the year is out, i can promise you, is removing the authority from construction away from the v. A. And to the corps of engineers, whose job it is to build things. Rebecca adams following up on that, the Senate Version of the spending bill for the v. A. Does include language on that, which would require the army corps of engineers to oversee these kinds of projects. So, you think that that is definitely going to become law . Because the have been these concerns, and it is not just denver. It is projects in orlando, las vegas, and to new orleans senator isakson new orleans. Rebecca adams as well. That is right. Senator isakson yeah, there are four hospitals were the cost overruns are substantial. None is greatest denver, but others as much as 125 over run. And the v. A. Has agreed to accept construction limits up to 250 million. I think they ought to be reduced down to about 25 million. That ought to be the threshold. Anything over 25 million for construction is done by the corps, not by the Veterans Administration. John mcardle and senator, does that mean that you are looking for reductions at to the v. A. , specifically in the Construction Management side . There is 300 staffers alone in the office of construction and facilities management. And that is just 1 3 of the office of acquisition, logistics, and construction. So are you calling for specific cuts in staffing at the v. A. From those offices . Senator isakson in the denver field hearing, i pointed out some some of the money we need to meet the overruns of denver could be taken from personnel and that Construction Office of the v. A. Because it needs to be shrunk. There are too many people in there. The v. A. Doesnt need to be building that much. If the corps were doing it at cost, it could go to pay for the hospital. Rather than costs that contribute to the cost of the hospital. Matthew daly do you think though, that it is too late in the game to change these rules now that the project is already half finished and there is other hospitals that have already begun as well . Is it too late to kind of fix those . Or is this kind of what you would like to do Going Forward for other projects . Senator isakson it is never too late to learn from your mistakes. And that is what we are trying to do. If the v. A. Ever has another new hospital built, and that is a question in and of itself, the corps of engineers ought to build it. The v. A. Should be out of that business. That is one Lesson Learned from what has happened in new orleans, las vegas, orlando, and denver. So, you learn lessons from your mistakes. This is a disaster. And it is a disaster of many facets with many people responsible, but we should learn from the mistakes that were made and make sure we correct it for the future. Rebecca adams just to clarify in the short run, the the v. A. Has asked to shift some money towards the denver hospital. Do you think that is clearly not going to happen . What do you think will happen . Senator isakson well, as i speak now, the end solution is not quite clear, so i could i could quote it, but let me just say this. We realize that shutting down the progress of the hospital would be dangerous at the point we are at, but at the same token, the v. A. Running on with a blank check is equally dangerous. So we are trying to extract some accountability on the denver project for an extension that goes through the end of july to keep the construction running so the v. A. Itself can come up with the money they need to finish paying for the overruns out of existing appropriations. We will not and i underscore not take any money out of veterans choice and the changes that congress made to pay for the mistakes in denver. The v. A. Should find that money itself and not take it away from the veterans. Rebecca adams you mentioned the veterans choice act. That was something that passed last august and it gives veterans ability to go outside the v. A. Facilities to get private care when they need it if they are either have to wait 30 days or more for an appointment or live more than 40 miles away from a v. A. Facility. And you all have succeeded already in convincing the v. A. To make one change and expand the eligibility of that and the interpretation of that earlier this year. But you have talked about wanting to do more. Can you give us an update on the status of the new legislation that might be in the works to try to change this program that was created last year . Senator isakson i appreciate the question. We recognize that there will be some statutory changes that need to be made and the v. A. Has been agreeable and looking at the care the veterans need as being another standard. You know, if the veteran lives within 30 or 40 miles of a v. A. Facility, but that facility doesnt offer the health care he needs say it is for a prosthesis or burns or for an eye damage or Something Like that we think the veteran ought to be able to go to the closest private facility that can meet that treatment. It is called the care the veteran needs, not just how far they live away from the facility, but the care they need. We are going to statutorily change that when we come back in june. That is another improvement when it comes to veterans access and the choice act. Matthew daly you worry, though, senator that if you do that, one of the reasons they put those restrictions in was because of the costs. That that could cost billions of dollars and we are already talking about billions for the denver hospital, weve got problems in the v. A. , their backlog of claims, and there is all kinds of money that they could just kind of continuously spend. You know, without limit. Senator isakson the cost factor is only a shortterm concern. In the macro percents for the longterm, broadening choice will actually lower the pressure on the cost for the v. A. , not to raise it. So sometimes reforms take a little bit extra money to get from point a to point b, but in the long term, if you have private sector choice, you have a force multiplier for the v. A. Where they dont hire doctors they have them in the communities that are providing the service. And for the veterans, they have better care and better accessibility to their care. So in the long run, it is less expensive and better Quality Health care. Matthew daly well, there was another issue in terms of cost where there was a report last week about the the veterans employees using these cards, these corporate cards, essentially purchase cards, and making, you know, billions of dollars with the purchases kind of off the books. And they are supposed to be for small incidentals where you can buy a veteran something that he or she needs for a couple thousand dollars or less. And this added up to billions of dollars basically unchecked. What, if anything, can congress do about that . Senator isakson i think you are referring to the 6. 8 billion figure that came out of the house testimony, where procurement had run over by 6. 8 billion because of the undisciplined and unbridled use of charge cards. That has been a problem in government in other areas as well. I ran a big company in the private sector. I run a family and a household. You have rules and you have accountability to keep yourself from doing that. The v. A. Needs to run itself like it runs its own family. And make sure you have parameters and accountability on the use of credit or the extension of credit or whom you give it the credit extended to in the first place. John mcardle senator, you have been talking about physical health care. I want to talk about Mental Health care. There is a stat that is often cited. It is 22 of the americas veterans committing suicide each day in this country. What is being done on the Mental Health side of the v. A. . Senator isakson the first bill passed by the senate this year when we came into session in january was the clay hunt Suicide Prevention bill, which was a joint effort with senator blumenthal, myself, and congressman welch from minnesota to expand the number of psychiatric physicians available in the v. A. Expand the cooperation the v. A. Gets with the private sector. And put the v. A. Into a monitoring and accountability system to see to it those at risk for themselves, those that need Mental Health Services Deployments are timely, their cases are followed, and they get the kind of Psychiatric Health they need. It is already making a difference. One death is too many when it comes to someone taking their own life, and we dont want to be a part of it at the v. A. John mcardle senator, you say it is already making a difference. Do we know that from the stats . Or when will we know that this legislation is actually working in this country . Senator isakson well, i am one chairman, the ghost of v. A. Hospitals. I told you i went to denver, i have an atlanta hospital on clairmont road. Leslie wiggins is the director. I go to that Mental Health facility often. I listen to what the veterans are telling me, i listen to what the caregivers are telling me, i listen to what the loved ones are telling me. They have seen substantial changes in the v. A. Case management, in terms of Mental Health. I havent i cant give you a statistic on the number of veterans committing suicide now versus two months ago or three months ago, but i can tell you the contributing causes, in terms of lack of care or lack of accessibility are being corrected within the v. A. Rebecca adams in terms of other issues facing the committee, one of the things that you said you want to make a priority is womens issues and making sure that the v. A. Is responsible responsive to the growing number of women that are veterans. I was wondering if you could stand on that and tell us more and hopefully make a little news here about what you plan to do in that area. Senator isakson well, i really appreciate the question because the Unsung Heroes of the modern volunteer military are the number of women who are volunteering and serving. In fact, it is estimated that by 2020, 10. 5 of all veterans receiving benefits will be women. And that will only grow in the future. So, it is important we make sure that the unique physical and Health Services that women need are provided for in the hospitals, not as an afterthought, but as a part of the original planning. I have visited some of the v. A. Hospitals facilities where the womens facility was in the basement in a room that was converted from a storage room. That is not right. It ought to be just as accessible and just as private and just as secure as some male patient might need. That is number one. Number two, we have to understand that a number of women have been victims of violent sexual trauma when in the military. That is a Mental Health issue. We need to make sure we identify it early, we have the Services Necessary to the women to see to it that they get the counseling they need, and the help that they need. So Womens Services are important. Women volunteering for the military is the key to our military. Weve got to see to it that they have service that is equal and on a parallel with everything that men get. Matthew daly senator, you mentioned earlier that the v. A. With 300,000 plus employees may be too big to succeed. Do you worry that that really is true . That it is just so big and their job is so mammoth, whether it is health care, dealing with Mental Health, talking about homelessness, youve got all kinds of issues that they are dealing with. And they have had on top of that, they have had these problems about falsifying wait lists, you know, to make sure that employees get bonuses rather than veterans get health care. Do you worry that it is too big a problem for secretary mcdonnell and his deputy to really succeed . Because they are only two people and there is 300,000 plus who have been there, in many cases for decades. Senator isakson well, i am an eternal optimist, and i would never say being too big to succeed as a permanent is a permanent affliction of the v. A. It is too big and monolithic right now to overcome the cultural difficulties they have within the organization. And that needs changed. Statutory change, as well as leadership changes. That is why i said we need to have Bob Mcdonnells back. We need to give him the force of the congress behind him to make sure he does the accountability mechanisms necessary to get the v. A. Accountable. But please understand this. And i want to understand this. We have some of the finest physicians and health care services, paraprofessionals, and technicians in the world. The v. A. Health care. Our problem is more in the administration, accountability and accounting level of the v. A. Than it is the delivery of the Health Services. That is where the problems come from for appointments, that is where the problems came from for wait lists, that is where the problems came for phoenix, and that is where the problems need to be corrected. So, while the v. A. Has a systemic problems and cultural problems, they are correctable with the director and the secretary of the v. A. Having our backing in congress and as having the will to see to it that he has the enforcement mechanism he needs to do the job. John mcardle so, senator, it is not necessarily a problem that will be corrected with more money being given to this problem. Senator isakson well, i am glad you mentioned that. I could stand to be corrected on this number, but i think i am right. V. A. Funding over the last decade has been increased by 74 . We have had sequestration on everybody else. We went to budgeting on v. A. To ensure continuity of funding for v. A. Health care. Funding is not the problem. It is the accountability for the use of the funding, the management of the services paid for by the funding, and the cultural deficiencies within the v. A. That is the problem. They dont have a money problem they have a management problem. Rebecca adams what do you account for in terms of discussions about the budget . What we saw in the house when it passed the funding bill for the v. A. Back in april was a surprising shift. Usually, that is very bipartisan, everybody votes for it. This year, the administration took a different tact. They said that there is not enough money in the v. A. Spending bill and republicans were put a little bit on the defensive. So, what do you expect going for to happen in the debate over v. A. Funding . Senator isakson well, anybody who thinks funding will solve the v. A. s problems is just wrong because, as i said, the funding is not the problem. They have had the amount of money theyve needed to do the job. They havent had the cultural clarity within the organization, or the leadership within the organization, to carry the job out. So, anybody that wants to attack the v. A. By just saying if they had more money, they would solve the problem we have a hospital in denver that is 47 finished and is 1,200,000,000 over budget. Obviously, money is the problem there because they are spending way too much, but they arent building a hospital. They are building a problem. We need accountability within the v. A. , not more money. Matthew daly do you have confidence that secretary mcdonnell understands that . There has been criticism from speaker boehner, from chairman miller, who is your counterpart in the house Veterans Affairs committee, jeff miller of florida who has said, look, just not enough people have been fired flat out. That we, the v. A. , needs to sort of clean house because you cant go forward with people who are part of the problem. Senator isakson well, the first part of your question is secretary mcdonnell, and let me be as clear as i can. I have been very impressed with secretary mcdonnell. His history shows that he has the ability to manage a Large Corporation dealing in Health Services. He has the heart for it. He served in the american military. I think he can do a good job. He needs us to give him the wind we need he needs us to give him the wind at his back to do that job. And he needs to have the courage to exercise the very difficult decisions that need to be made at the v. A. But i think Bobby Mcdonnell can do it and i hope he can take this crisis that we are having in denver and use it as a benchmark to the future operations of the v. A. Rather than a problem we continue to perpetuate in the v. A. Mcdonnell is the right man for the job, if he is willing to take the reins and if we are willing to give him the backing that he needs. John mcardle senator, how much time does he have to to show that he is willing to take the reins, if you can show him that he has the backing that he needs . Senator isakson well, hes there is a lot of things that are indicative to me that he has taken the initiative to do so. He has tried to remove a lot of people from jobs and responsibilities they werent doing the job, but because of limitations, he couldnt fire them, he could only transfer them. He did successfully fire, and it was upheld in court, one of the arizona folks who was fired over the wait scandal and the wait times scandal in arizona; although, the firing was upheld because they had done a mismanagement of funds, not because of the job that they did. Bob is trying and we need to give him the tools so that when he tries, he is effective and does it. Rebecca adams and, senator, as you move forward, do you think that all of this will require a lot more in terms of what congress provides through authorizing legislation . Or do you think that there will be additional appropriations riders that deal with some of these issues . Or do you think that this is something that can be done just to execution and through management of the v. A. . Senator isakson that is a great question. I think we have already demonstrated with the v. A. s willingness to make the adjustments to the rule they did on the 40 mile rule and what were about to on the rule on veterans care that is needed rule. They are willing to cooperate with us on the direction the v. A. Goes, in terms of the services offered. So i doubt that you will see a lot of forced management through budget riders or appropriation riders and things of that nature. Hopefully, we will have more cooperation between the authorizing committees and the appropriating committees to see to it that money is being directed in the appropriate direction. You know, in reality and i put this out there, this is not breaking news, but i dont think it has been said before we recognize that if veterans choice works, the additional money appropriated to carry that program out over three years will probably not be enough to carry it out. But if the experiment we are going through now on veterans choice works, as i think it will and i think most of the house and senate think it will, we will have a force multiplier that, over time, will lower the financial pressure on the v. A. Health services and delivery. We are in the middle of an experiment, but not an experiment that is a health experiment, but an experiment that i think will address the needs of the v. A. And our veterans in the years to come. Veterans choice is a great opportunity for the v. A. To expand its workforce and expand its access to health care for veterans without building facilities or hiring more doctors. Rebecca adams senator, let me just follow up on that. One of the changes that you talked about earlier in expanding veterans choice would cost secretary mcdonnell, as estimated earlier, about 10 billion per year. This is the change you want to make from to allow veterans who are not getting the care that they need at the facility near them to go to private medical care. That money has to be paid for an offset, i would assume. Do you believe that if you pass that that it would need to be offset . And where would you find the money to do that . Senator isakson well, first of all, the money is being paid to a veteran for health care for someone who risked their life for you and i to live in the freest land in the world. There should be no equivocation on whether or not that veteran gets his benefit. And if that benefit is expensive, we need to find the money to do so. So, i dont i dont think that is going to be a problem. We cant shortchange somebody who risked their life for you and i. We need to make sure they get the benefits that we passed and promised them. We also need to make sure that we can deliver the benefits that we promised in the future. So every means test should be used to test future benefits and the expansion of cost. There should never be in equivocation on giving a veteran the services they have earned, they fought for, and they risked their life for. Matthew daly there are some veterans groups that have been saying that some of the changes that are being made in terms of the choice act at you know pushing private care is kind of a backdoor way to privatize the v. A. I know that you have said that is not what is going on, but can you just address those concerns . Because they continue to happen from veterans groups, and also individual veterans who call us, saying they are worried that the v. A. Itself will be privatized. Senator isakson we have no intention, nor is there any plan, nor is it practical, to privatize the v. A. On the other hand, it is impractical to continue to expand the v. A. In its current form. What we need to do is what we have done in all kinds of benefits in the country, and that is use the privatization of it for access to private Sector Services that, a, is a force multiplier and, b, is a savings. Remember this. Every time an American Veteran has, through choice, goes to a medicare approved doctor for Services Rather than a v. A. Hospital, that is one less the v. A. Cost to have to service that veteran. So, although it costs you for him to go to the private sector, it saves you because he is not using the v. A. Facility. So, there are savings and offsets in here that make it very practical to do. So i i say all the vsos and not all the vsos are against choice, but some of them are. Dont put your head in the sand, dont look the other way, dont think somebody is trying to privatize the v. A. Health system. We are not trying to do that. What we are trying to do is modernize it, make it accessible, make it accountable, and make it fundable for the american people. We owe our veterans everything. However we are going to deliver it, weve got to deliver it. Rebecca adams v. A. Officials, though, have said they want to take a look at all of the private medical care that they are paying for and they want to reconsider how that is paid for, they want to put it all into one funding stream rather than different programs, they want to completely rethink the future of private medical care paid for by the v. A. So, if you are looking out 10 years from now, how much of the care that veterans get do you think will be paid for by the v. A. But provided by doctors similar to the way medicare does it . Or how much of it will be continue to be provided in v. A. Facilities . Senator isakson well, i dont i am not smart enough to look out 10 years and tell you what a number is going to be. I am smart enough to tell you that what we did in terms of veterans choice is going to work. As long as the v. A. Doesnt fold its arms and try to make it fail. Weve got a job to do to see to it that it works, and i think that it will. I cant predict what the split will be, but i will tell you this. Tricare works great. My mother and fatherinlaw have been on tricare for years, a navy veteran and his wife. Tricare is a great combination of benefits promised by the Veterans Administration and the United States government to a navy volunteer, and private sector delivery of those services. It is a merger of medicare and v. A. Health care to form tricare. So, tricare works. If tricare works, veterans choice can work equally as well. John mcardle senator, we have just a minute or two left. You are just looking to the future. I was wondering if you could look backwards into the past. We just passed the 40th anniversary of the fall of saigon. I wonder if you could talk about the legacy of the vietnam war on how we treat veterans in this country and how its influence helped how you run your committee in congress. Senator isakson well, i am a product of the vietnam era. That is my age group. And i lost some of my best friends in vietnam. I remember the sacrifice and the tragedy our country went through. One of the reasons the v. A. Is so loved by our veterans is vietnamera veterans found the v. A. The only safe haven they could go to. They had to get off their planes when they came back from vietnam in civilian clothes because the war was hated so badly. We owe those veterans everything. They sacrificed, they risked their lives, they fought in a horrible war in southeast asia. We need to make sure in the latter years of their lives they are getting the care they deserve. One note to take place on the suicide rate, the number of suicide increases is not in veteran afghan and iraqi veterans, it is in the vietnamera veterans. Those over 60 years old. So we owe those veterans just as much equally as the afghan and iraqi and world war ii veterans. Im going to see to it that they get it. John mcardle senator Johnny Isakson is a republican from georgia. He is the chairman of the senate Veterans Affairs committee. Thank you, sir, for being our newsmaker this week. Senator isakson thank you very much. Have a great weekend. John mcardle you, too, sir. Matthew daly thank you, senator. Rebecca adams thank you. John mcardle and return right to our roundtable. We are continuing with Rebecca Adams of cq roll call. Matthew daly of the associated press. I want to start with v. A. Secretary mcdonnell. We heard senator isakson say repeatedly that he is the right man for the job, that we need to have congress back. How is congress, as a whole, not just senator isakson, view secretary mcdonnell . Matthew daly i think there is some suspicion about him. I think they really worry that he hasnt done enough to promote the Choice Program. The Choice Program kind of came out of the law that was passed last year in the wake of the phoenix scandal about wait times. And they really have had very low signups for it. Congress has been continuously pushing them better signups with the whole 40 mile rule thing. They basically were saying that they were measuring on a map that if you draw it as the crow flies to 40 miles, and people were driving, so they said, we cant do it. So now to have opened it up so that if you drive 40 miles, you can use this private care. So that has been one way to have way they have opened it up, but there has been some suspicion. Plus, they are worried that, i think, for them, firing people means you are taking action. You could argue whether that is a simplistic logic or not, but there is a lot of questioning of whether he really does want to do enough to change the culture. Kind of send a message, hey, it is not business as usual. Rebecca adams i would agree. I think that there are many who like his private sector experience. He is the former ceo and president of procter gamble. So some republicans like that. But they do have some concerns about the v. A. In general, and in a large part about its bureaucracy and how it is operating and how it is responding to veterans needs. John mcardle you both asked the senator, the chairman, about this denver hospital. Is this becoming a symbol of the v. A. And one that the v. A. Doesnt want . Matthew daly i think that is exactly what it is becoming because it is such a huge project. It is hard to imagine that a hospital costs as much as 1 billion in the first place. You just wonder where did all that money go to . It is only half built. There is all kinds of reasons for why it happened. Basically, it was a Previous Administration and now to have the person who was in charge of that has sort of retired fired i would say. Another thing where they allowed that person to retire with full benefits. And they come back with, we can take away that persons benefits. John mcardle Rebecca Adams what are you hearing from the senator . Rebecca adams i thought it was interesting that he said of we promise you we are going to get the army court of engineers the army corps of engineers involved. If you look at the spending bills that are circulating out there in congress, they said we are not going to provide money additional money for these kinds of projects. The Senate Version has more money for military construction, but i think there is a lot of concern. And you dont even hear a lot of democrats defending things like that like the denver project. There are major problems there. John mcardle senator isakson saying that money is not a problem at the v. A. What is the v. A. Saying . Matthew daly i think they think that it is the problem. That they need more funding. And they do worry about this whole Choice Program how it could exponentially increase costs. Because some of the private care does cost more than the because you already have the structure set up at the v. A. Hospital, you have to pay those doctors anyway. So they care increases exponentially as you allow more and more people to do it. But from Congress Point of view, we have these people who put their lives on the line. We have to take care of them. John mcardle what is the expectation for the program in the funding side . Matthew daly Rebecca Adams i think it will be interesting to see what they do in terms of authorizing changes to that program. And if they do put forth legislation to a cup some of the things that he mentioned, then that would cost money to accomplish some of the things that he mentioned, then that would cost money. V. A. Officials what to change that a bit to say that if there is any kind of problem, then people can go to private care. So, all of that is something to watch. I do think it is interesting in general, just taking a step back, and looking at how the tone around spending for veterans has changed. And both sides, both republicans and democrats, are trying to show that they are supportive of veterans and that they are really doing all that they can to support veterans in the wake of the scandal that we saw last year in phoenix. And the administration came out and even though the military construction in the spending bill just passed in the house it provides more money than master the then last year, the administration is saying that there is not about money and there is this feeling that they are trying to show that the republicans perhaps are not doing all that they can. Matthew daly one thing i would say is that in the wake of the scandal in general Veterans Issues have become much more high profile. I think a lot of the stuff went on for years under the radar until this phoenix scandal broke. At a retired doctor said that veterans were dying while they are on the waiting list. As many problems as we talked about on this program, at least they are