not be more proud to be hosting this symposium. before we begin the next much has been said about our former president and to decision to come georgetown, to enter the school of foreign service, the only school he applied to as a high school student, in part because he wanted to expand his horizons and get a more global view. have a conversation about his global vision, we thought it would be fun for a few minutes to reflect on bill clinton and his time at georgetown. enjoy this walk down memory lane. we will continue the conversation afterward. clip] >> we were just on the verge of the movement for racial equality. >> 2000 people have gathered at the nations capital. >> there was a lot of political and cultural movement. we were involved. it was an intellectually fascinating time. >> you have the deep fissures that began to emerge with the vietnam war, the civil rights movement. >> to be a student in washington, d.c. at that time left you with the notion that you've got to do something. >> torched on in the 1960's -- it wasown in the 1960's, the only school he applied to, and he got in. bill clinton was a pretty outgoing guy. immediately him because of his accent. >> his arkansas accent. he would be speaking, and people would be laughing. >> he was a very bright, very articulate. friendly, active. >> he has this uncanny ability to remember your family, your friends, your age, your date. i was convinced this was a guy going someplace. >> he is clearly a man of many, many gifts. the one that was incredible was his gift for interpersonal relations. person who knew what he wanted to do. he said would you nominate me for freshman class president. >> i said sure. of somethingense that made people call him the natural. >> public service, this is very much bill clinton. >> after martin luther king was assassinated, washington blew up. took a piece of paper, drew a red cross, put it on the side of his car, and drove into the burning areas. he didn't call the red cross. he just went. always reaching out with the southern people skills he possessed. >> of help me god. >> so help me god. >> congratulations. don't think anybody ever expects a friend to be president of the united states. >> in the back of everyone's head was, will we have a reunion at the white house? generous such a friend, he invited everyone to the white house for his 25th and 30th reunions. >> it is wonderful to see all of you. ofi think he is as proud georgetown as georgetown's him. he has always felt that georgetown made him in many ways. >> i served in his white house for eight years, and it was from time to-- time, we would talk about some influence from this place. gone tould have arkansas and been surrounded by people from the south, but he chose to go to georgetown and experience different things. he always presented himself as a kid from arkansas. that's who he is. that's who he was. he felt that was as good as it got. hasresident bill clinton remained the same from the days that i met him at university .ntil today [applause] him taping a about red cross to the side of his car gets me every time i hear it. let me start with the housekeeping. georgetown university is ofmitted to freedom expression that fosters ideas and opinions. while not everyone may share the same views of the speakers, it is expected that everyone will respect the speakers right to share their ideas by not disrupting the activity. at the end of the event, there will be a question and answer session. please be sure to phrase your comments in the form of a question. in the interest of time, we ask that each person be concise and ask only one question. while it is heartwarming to see so many people from president journalistsass and here, we ask that the questions are limited to students and people from the georgetown community. partner withd to the walsh school of foreign service for this next discussion as we take a look back on how bill clinton viewed the world, what america's role is, what kind of leadership role it could take, and how that impacted america's foreign-policy and the eightecurity in years he was president and beyond. to kick off the discussion and make the proper introductions of participating, i would like to invite up and he got, a sophomore in the school of foreign service from portland, maine. annie. [applause] annie: welcome. , and i am annie gott a student in the school of foreign service studying politics. introduceleasure to our distinguished guests. i became involved in the institute of public service my first semester and have been part of the geopolitics family ever since. hasing with geopolitics been an incredible way to get involved in some of the best events georgetown has to offer. you certainly don't get opportunities like this at other schools. now for the guests and you are all here for. madeleine albright was secretary thetate from 1997-2001, first woman to hold the position, and at the time, the highest-ranking woman in government. received the presidential medal of freedom from president obama and 2012. today, she is the chair of albright capital management. she is also a professor of diplomacy here at georgetown. five new york times bestsellers, she is currently working on her next : a warning," that will be published in september. has focused onlo the environment, drug policy, elections, and democracy. currently, he is the director of the yale center. he has received many honors over the years including decorations from the governments of 32 countries and the franklin d roosevelt freedom from fear award. published four edited volumes in the past year, including his most recent, "africa at a fork in the road." before joining the state department, talbot worked at time magazine for 21 years, where he worked in an array of post including is washington bureau chief, white house correspondent, state department correspondent. he was twice awarded a prize for distinguished diplomatic reporting. after his tenure as secretary of state, he was the founder of the yell center for the study of global -- yale center for the study of globalization. he is also the author of 12 books. our moderator today is joe talman, dean of the law school of foreign service. prior to assuming his current position, he served at the world bank in many senior roles including as chief institutional economist and director of the center for development in nairobi, kenya. he has taught at harvard university and columbia university. i would like to thank the dean as an academic partner on this panel. don't forget to engage with us on social media for this event. a do,ithout further please give our panelists a warm welcome. [applause] [applause] >> thank you, annie, for the great introduction. it's wonderful to have you all here. we have a short time and a lot to cover, so i am going to get right into the questions, and then we will leave plenty of time for students and members of the community to ask questions. let me start. most that the stage for what we are trying to do here. although it is wonderful that resident clinton graduated from the school of foreign service, we know that when he took office, he was largely focused on the domestic agenda. it's the economy, stupid. a focus on domestic issues. did he come to office with a fully formed view about america's role in the world, or did his worldview evolve over time question mark how did you see -- overtime? how did you see that evolution question mark secretary albright: -- evolution? albright: he had both because he studied here and he kept up with things that were going on. but you have to think about the 1990's as a very different phase. institutions were changing. the world was changing. his views evolved. i was ambassador to the united nations at the beginning, and he was very clear about the fact throughwanted actions the united nations. he said -- it's hard to believe -- but he actually said this, if he were not president of the united states, he would have been happy to be ambassador to the united nations. he recognized the importance of looking at the world through spectacles. mr. talbot: it is great to be here. i can remember the first time i met bill clinton. , the 32 rhodes scholars of that year were going to sail to the united kingdom, and he stood out from the very beginning. i got to know him particularly well when i was there. we shared a house together. his interest in the world was absolutely exhilarating to hear him talk about it. i made a trip, my first trip to the soviet union, which was once upon a time a very large country by that name. during a christmas break. when i got back to oxford, he just pumped me with questions. he was full of curiosity. he was a very aware that his chances of being a rather unknown political figure and still be able to ascend to the white house, especially after having to defeat one of the best foreign-policy presidents we've had in a long time, george h.w. bush. he thought it gave him a huge advantage that the cold war was over. and he came into office wanting to do everything he could to make sure the cold war was over and that post-soviet russia would be able to succeed. more to that story later, perhaps. >> i think i have a general comment. i met president clinton when he had already been president for two years. at the time that i was elected. from day one, when we met, i had the idea that he did have a vision. he did have a vision in which diplomacy, engagement, respect to others. active decisions to try to solve problems. it was in the national interest of the united states. it is the right way to think about this. international cooperation not because you want to do international philanthropy. every president in the world has that absolutely convinced his country is first. it's almost stupid to say because it is obvious. bill clinton will practice that. he will practice that with the instrument that the united states had led to create an international community. vision, and that vision working with the multilateral institutions, and that diplomacy was extremely important. and working with the neighbors. to get in some actual examples of getting in that vision. maybe we can start with the end of the cold war. one of the interesting things is, by the end of the cold war, it did create the possibility of a bipartisan moment in u.s. foreign-policy. i wonder if you can give us some sense of how clinton reacted to that. how he fostered bipartisanship. and he fought to the strategy of american engagement to ensure an effective russian integration into the international system. he moved with a bipartisan approach to that and work with our allies. >> he was quite convinced early on that it was important to expand and deepen international institutions as her nest of just said. and there was controversy over if nato had done its thing. go in history, a good record of not getting us into world war iii. president clinton did not see it that way. there was a horrific war in the warning thath is a just because russia and the other soviet states were no longer the evil empire and the warsaw pact was no longer the evil empire, there was still a role for nato. one of the things that he did from the very beginning, madeline can tell you more about he was absolutely committed to the proposition that now that russia was no , iter the evil empire should be a new world order and it would have to have hard power and soft power. nato was the obvious ally, the most capable source of hard power. there was one other point he came to to talk to a number of us about. if we did not enlarge what madamries like secretary knows so well, a country that also doesn't exist in its current name, that was czechoslovakia. if those countries that were caught between the old soviet union and nato, europe, the european union -- they didn't a commitment from the united states and to nato to help them as they go forward. a lot of bad things would happen there. and he kept pointing to -- as aia as an into lesson that we had to learn. i think was very interesting is that he had, in fact, studied what happened after the end of world war ii when half of europe was against us and put behind the iron curtain. the creation of nato and the other various aspects. one of think is interesting is that he also appreciated something that he hadn't thought of. at the end of the cold war, the u.s. was asked to do something that hasn't been done before. which is to devolve the power of your major adversary without a land war. the question is how to bring russia into the system. strom was in charge of our relationship with russia. , talking aboutrk the reunification of germany. into a system. it was a very step-by-step process possibly called partnership for peace. countries could see how the system worked. , and aave been memos staged approach. and a way that russia could be respected and part of something. and begin to have russia nato dialogue. i admire the goal of it, and the carefulness with which president clinton directed that we take steps to do this in some way that was organized. we respected what was going on in russia. the memos are worth reading. president clinton is talking to president yeltsin. a recognized each other's politics and what they were dealing with. just said brings back a very vivid memory. the russians hated the idea of nato bombing serbia. yeltsin, because of his close tie with resident clinton, it was absolutely central in getting the serbian that is out of office, and actually made it possible for us to bring an end to the balkan wars without having to go into a land war. and that, i think, was a huge heroicishment and a very one on yeltsin's part. and it was based on his relationship with president clinton. >> we will talk about him as an individual and how he built relationships. first i would like to ask to talk about his vision toward latin america, mexico, and the critical bipartisan relationship there. proofsident clinton gave of his vision that a good relationship with mexico was very important in the interest of the united states. against whatt was they hinted. champion of nafta. they were not rejected by , but the beginning of the clinton administration. new that he would pay a high party andcost for the the other major parties. and naftae went ahead was approved. next was the fact that in late 1994, they were becoming president of mexico. the country faced an incredibly difficult financial crisis. unprecedented. days into my few administration. the country is literally bankrupt. i need to support, not only of strong, but it was very destabilization and reform program. badthe institution is so that we need to put together more resources. in the situation, it would not only be a mexican crisis. the rest ofect latin america. it would be systemic to the entire financial system. i said, let me talk to larry. says, you are commended. you may be right. yes, of course i'm right. >> you only have a lot of reasons. but anyways, he tried to go one way through congress. he worked with bipartisan leadership. but the thing could not get through congress. he used an old facility that to lend mexico the money. least of all, to lend money to mexico. and the argument to use over and they explain things. theld the leaders that neighbors house is burning and you better hope your neighbor because otherwise, your house can get a fire. very graphic, very simple argument. it was three years in advance. to prevent moral partner. ofis a good story cooperation. >> tried to get that clinton as , a deliberate or. give us some sense of moment or story that gives an insight into how clinton handled the particularly difficult negotiation, difficult decision. you describe that it was impossible for anyone to out talk him. can you give a sense of how he used personal style to negotiate around difficult issues and engage in decision-makers? extrovert complete especially in bilateral negotiations with foreigners, to do something that he knew was important, to put himself into their shoes. and to understand what it is they needed. he went to the meeting that there were certain things that needed to be accomplished. he would, in fact, press the case very carefully. he always used them. and, you know, he was criticized for always being late. he was late because he was interested in what he was doing at the time. i do think there was kind of this sense that he liked the subject. for instance, at camp david, sitting down with chairman and he made them put them shells in the shoes the other party. we need to solve this together and need to be win-win. have us argueto in front of them when there was disagreement in the principals meeting. he wanted to know where we differed, why we had differed. an iced sit there with his head and take notes. and he left when he was going to say. it was very organized. >> can you tell us what was the most difficult prisoner relationship that he had with other foreign leaders in terms of this engagement? >> talking about people that were really discussing that he didn't want to see it. trying to find something to do with everybody. there were people that are difficult to deal with. things is ahe president clinton tried to do with him in a way that was understanding what he wanted. and prime minister netanyahu he spoke inct, idiomatic english and able to frame things in terms of politics. even though it was difficult, they were able to work their way through it. >> it was a summit between president clinton that had injured himself and was in a wheelchair. boris yeltsin had already reluctantly accepted the fact that nato was going to move in central europe. three of the former republics would also be in nato. yeltsin with one-on-one, bill, i want to do the following. i want to find a closet somewhere. , don't in might year worry, boris, we will never bring in the baltic states. and what matalin was talking about kicked in. and by the way, we are going to do it. but you don't want to be caught trying to stop these now for taking states advantage of an international institution that will have a better future. and if you can think of it in it andy and try to stop , andive russia being part you will go down in history. and president clinton afterwards. argument, yeltsin basically melted and said, ok, you win. >> president clinton is an ,ptimal combination of charm intellectual curiosity. when you put those three it is hard tor, see an awkward situation. it will be al gore. i can see president clinton. that moment was the financial crisis. canada and vancouver, i guess. japan wasminister of extremely concerned. it had been in the conversation for a few years. and the willingness to cooperate , itthe more accommodating was not particularly good. i could see president clinton not by pushing but by surviving arguments, why everybody has to put its own part. it got things moving in the right direction. >> we will go to questions in a minute, but i first want to go across the panel and ask you, if you can identify perhaps the most exhilarating high point in your engagement and relationship with clinton. and your most difficult, the lowest point. your period. >> mine was personal and it did take place at the u.n.. and it was to do with the partnership of peace. president clinton was to meet me in prague for the meeting with the czechoslovak. the meeting was shortly after his mother had died. czech's hadck -- prepared giving him a saxophone and taking him to a jazz club. the white house decided it was inappropriate. first, so io prague , we had a signal to get off the plane. and give me a kiss and whisper what the decision was. clinton said, of course i want to do it. the most moving for me was that particular time, coming back to the place of my birth. courtyard asin the they played the czech national anthem and the american national anthem. and we went in to have a meeting in the castle and president hovel said we are glad to have you here and president clinton said it's truly not fair, czechoslovakia has two representatives that the u.n.. -- at the u.n. and we walked across the charles bridge together. president clinton and i went to this jazz club. they gave him a saxophone. he played my funny valentine and came back and said you have no idea how hard it is to play a brand-new sex phone. difficult -- brand-new saxophone. the most difficult was camp david. nobody was allowed to leave camp david except for him to go to okinawa for the g8 eating. had a veryter point on how to resolve it. president clinton came back and said, aniline, i think we have an agreement. i have to get rid of the underbrush and it will be done. it wasn't done and i think he was not so happy with me. and i was moscow known for my pins that i wore. we walk in and president putin turns to president clinton and says, we always notice what pins secretary albright wears. where are you wearing the three monkeys? i said because i think your policy in chechnya is evil. [laughter] [applause] putin was furious at me for good reason and president clinton looked at me like, are you an idiot? [laughter] >> obviously, we think about important things for my country. this relationship we developed. at this very difficult moment for mexico. the financial crisis was extremely important. i think all the moments that we share ideas and commitments. him --ways grateful for to him for what he did. there is a moment that it was not easy. he called me from the plane because he had been told that mexico was not supported. and that was true. on the basis of the united , we said this is not right. i knew already that other countries, other important emerging countries would pose. it would not be a problem. he is my friend, i respect him. he listens to arguments. the comparative advantage. they wereexplain why trying to push for a labor chapter. it was not a good idea. and for all of these, mexico -- he said, i understand. but i was already very worried. at no point in that conversation it was a verythat good threat to mexico. they try to argue. you know how seattle happened. it's not really about demonstrations. didn't happen because the time was not right. and i guess, for political reasons. no way to bead adopted. i was very worried. and my congress, i had lost the majority in congress. and now congress could do many things. president needed permission from congress to travel outside the country. it was a very complex moment. they never knew that they did a favor to me, it was traveling abroad. thank you. actually, i did see him and we met again in doubt us -- in devereaux's -- in davos in january. maybe you are right. maybe you were right. ok, thank you. that shows the kind of person he is. come on, island you money and now you -- he never invoked that. >> i think one of the most fraught and dangerous incidents andght both a real crisis also a real triumph of diplomacy. one of the perennial hotspots, the major plot points is the frontier between india and pakistan. knows this one. she grew up with it. her father was working on that for thegerous issue united nations. in 1999, pakistan sent some of its soldiers over the so-called line of control into indian territory. it is a very hairy situation which could've gone to not just war between the two countries, but nuclear war because both countries have nuclear weapons. it was caught between the military and the looming prospect of war. he asked for an invitation to come to washington. even before i decided to invite him, it was in the air. because president clinton has basically been the whole weekend thisair house talking with combination of hard headedness and empathy. , heat the end of it convinced him that we had order. the troops move back into pakistan and it saved something really terrible. it wasn't the big best career move. the military was going to hang him. they convinced him to go to saudi arabia. we have the prospect of the first real nuclear war. and by sunday night, we were ok. it was the second largest country in the world and he is revered there. >> when a have time for questions. it would take questions from students and faculty. in could be on both left and right. first, please identify yourself. and where you are at school. and you could have a brief question, for the panel. >> i'm at the college of georgetown. do topresident clinton curb north korea effectively from gaining a nuclear weapon. they didn't actually happen or work for north korea. >> i am the highest level sitting official to go to pyongyang to meet with the leader. the story is a long and complicated one. president clinton sent me there. they have to do with the missile limits. that theyo make sure would get rid of their nuclear capability. they were very interesting meetings and we knew very little about kim jong-il. i had excellent discussions with him on very technical matters. and we were in the middle of negotiations. this was in october of 2000. we were going to go on in kuala lumpur. and americans were confused about the election in 2000. certainly the north koreans were. , theefed colin powell incoming secretary of state with how the negotiations were. going toell was continue with what we were doing. in there is the headline washington post that said powell will continue clinton policies with north korea. he was called into the white house and told no way. time, they have negotiations. they had no materials or icbms. it was a mistake in terms of not continuing with those particular talks. this is something that has been going on since 1953. it is also aggregated. they shared most of the responsibility. they kept the forces in south korea. there were a number of different things, but we don't know what the site is like. the demilitarized zone is one of i've everous places seen. >> it is also a turning point when you tell a country that the existence regime is at play. >> the threat of that kind is issued recently. >> president clinton had the middle east peace talks. even after that, it was near the end of the term. the number two guy for north korea advised president clinton to go to north korea. at the end, the choice is to continue to middle east talks. he chose to do the middle east. >> thank you for picking on me. with regard to the last 25 years, the fact of twain five years of russia relations and prime minister medvedev's year,ts within this last the west and russia are sliding into a new cold war. does president clinton look back on the last 25 years of u.s. russia relations? are their decisions that he ultimately would've done differently? thank you. >> i think about that everyday. i suspect matalin does, too. i will give you a simplistic answer because we don't have time for a sophisticated one. no. i don't think there was something we could've of done or something we should not have done that would have changed this. that personalities, individuals really matter in this world. did many good things. he had huge problems to deal with. his motives were good. to be a true,ia open democracy. and to be accepted into a globalized world. he made one her in this mistake -- horrendous mistake. familyessed to it to his before he died, and that's the man he put in place at the turn-of-the-century. matalin: ->> you can't reiterate how much time president clinton spent working on understanding russia, the fact that we have this peculiar duty to devolve the power of our adversary. that there are those that believe that nato expansion was a big mistake. i haven't a think the opposite. and so did president clinton. that, i thinke first of all, the countries were entitled to -- they were liberated against their will. russia ultimately to come into nato as they were prepared and wanted to. there were a lot of myths connected to this that are definitely myths. interesting, even i was .llowed to stay for that summit it was interesting to watch. putin is very smart. he spoke without notes and took notes. he was stiff as a board and unfriendly and somebody different ways. i think we did what we could given what we knew at the time. >> my question is, is there a national security rationale? pushing china to join the wto? >> when i know is that first of all, we were genuinely trying to figure out a good relationship with the chinese. the grammarof administration. they try to bring them into the system. it judged the human rights activity and may the chinese crazy. it is really like pulling up a plant. it made for a lot of problems. in order, frankly, to make the rules. abide by the not only because we were saying so but because an international organization would be able to also go with the same kinds of point in terms of what it was like to join the international trading system. interest of any others abiding by a rules-based system. we have china an important and it would be crazy. last country was not the united states. it was mexico. aware that they would be competitors for mexico. we thought we had the imperative advantage. even others, in mexico. >> i will be able to go here. just right here. >> besides the lack of intervention, what would you say was clinton's largest regret? >> that he didn't go to north korea. >> i would say also -- a regret that he feels he is responsible for, he regretted that he couldn't get the peace process over the line. we have heard on a number of occasions -- >> the middle east? >> the middle east. i heard him say it many times just as the life of the hugesman can make differences, good or bad, in the so can the death of the statesman. and that means remaining -- rominhi. ayatolla >> my question is that given nuclear proliferation, we think president clinton anticipated the extent to which china had the defense engagement? >> i think i got it. and if i didn't, my colleagues -- president clinton was extremely concerned about the indian test of a nuclear weapon. it was not that he felt india was going to be an irresponsible player on the global stage. it was because it would be opening up the sluice gate of other countries, and we knew exactly who would be the next. and we would have as many as 20 nuclear armed countries over the next couple of decades. talk about mission impossible. right after the indians tested their weapons, he sent neil off with the team. they were gracious enough not to -- not to blow up their own bomb. just as we were trying to persuade them not to do it. we have north korea and matalin has given a very good indication of what we've tried to do there. >> it goes back to your first question. a lot of people kitted with him and he talked about building bridges to the 21st century. the first of the 21st. the only problem with that statement is a started making it six months after i had been named and so it was presumptuous. he did, and so i am. it was interesting to listen to him think about the various agreements that had to be made. for an the stage organized international system. the summit of the americas. any number of institutional things. at the same time, he would push us to think about the institutional structures that had to be put into place very deliberately. that meant where china was going to be and generally, the relationship. >> we hope that presidents learn from each other. crystallize one lessons. one to give to the current president. what would it be? >> i was expecting a much tougher question. it goes back to something said.t of said -- ernesto bill clinton came into office. that because the cold war was over, because the great schism was passing into history, we fought. he wanted to use his presidency to make the united states a leader in a collaborative world. make the united states a leader in instant national -- international institutions. and i remember once when he was .rying to formulate a doctrine i think matalin was in the room eleine was in- mad the room at the time. it was clear that was the clinton doctrine to have a collaborative world. if you read the books he has , he is particularly proud of that. i know what the president of the united states advice would be. >> don't ask that question to a bad ombre -- hombre. [laughter] [applause] being here at georgetown, and an event of president clinton. some of my students were that we want a safe space. theink i would say, ,resident of the united states economics and security. but somebody has to do so so the other wins. that would have the be great. i think that we the school he went. but i think that is so important. the operation is in the national interest. respect others is in the national interest of the united states. the really believe the country, the u.s., is first? be first,ct should that is in the interest of the united states. >> america should be first in leadership of the world. >> i don't know about that. [laughter] that is a point of difference. you do that by doing things. and that is another interesting thing. it is the domestic thing. president clinton was the president of the unilateral moment. it is over by the way. that is the big lesson. that should be thought about. theme.ave a similar i think that what happens when president clinton came to office , they came minister did showing us the economy, stupid. he followed a set of presidents that had spent a lot of time on foreign policy and not on domestic policy. and so what he did that i think was to really kind of link domestic and foreign policy, he was the first one to use the term "indispensable nation." i said it and it became identified with me. he said it in order for the american people to understand that we had to be aged abroad. that if we were, nothing would happen. it was a message that was really supposed to show that our leadership is needed. protecting your territory and your way of life. but he understood it was that international setting. to get the respect of the other countries and operate with them, in the way that you treated them as equals. we are about to become the dispensable nation where nobody thinks that we have a role to play. and i hope the current president and be engaged. and stop tweeting. [applause] >> let me thank my extra nuri panelist for an engaging and great conversation. you for cosponsoring with us and putting on an extraordinary weekend event. celebrating clinton's 25. think you for joining us for this great conversation. i want to remind you to stick around for the next panel which is on division of leadership and service. and a livestream at 4:15 p.m. you and theank panelists for a great discussion. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] 2018] >> we continue now on the supposed to -- symposium of a discussion on leadership style in public service. we heard remarks from john podesta, all who served as president clinton's chief of staff during his administration. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] >> good afternoon. thank you for coming and joining .s for those joining us for the i'm an executive director here at georgetown and could not be more thrilled to be helping to organize this symposium.