[applause] ms. walters: i'm sorry to do this, but i really must talk to the audience. you're all invited guests. i know i'm wasting time in talking to you, but it really is very unfair of you to applaud, sometimes louder, less loud, and i ask you, as people who were invited here, and polite people, to refrain. we have our time now for rebuttal. mr. president. the president: yes. well, with regard to this being a personal choice, isn't that what a murderer is insisting on, his or her right to kill someone because of whatever fault they think justifies that? now, i'm not capable, and i don't think you are, any of us, to make this determination that must be made with regard to human life. i am simply saying that i believe that that's where the effort should be directed, to make that determination. i don't think that any of us should be called upon here to stand and make a decision as to what other things might come under the self-defense tradition. that, too, would have to be worked out then, when you once recognize that we're talking about a life. but in this great society of ours, wouldn't it make a lot more sense, in this gentle and kind society, if we had a program that made it possible for when incidents come along in which someone feels they must do away with that unborn child, that instead we make it available for the adoption? there are a million and a half people out there standing in line waiting to adopt children who can't have them any other way. ms. walters: mr. mondale. mr. mondale: i agree with that, and that's why i was a principal sponsor of a liberal adoption law, so that more of these children could come to term, so that the young mothers were educated, so we found an option, an alternative. i'm all for that. but the question is whether this other option proposed by the president should be pursued. and i don't agree with it. since i've got about 20 seconds, let me just say one thing. the question of agriculture came up a minute ago. net farm income is off 50 percent in the last 3 years, and every farmer knows it. and the effect of these economic policies is like a massive grain embargo, which has caused farm exports to drop 20 percent. it's been a big failure. i opposed the grain embargo in my administration. i'm opposed to these policies as well. ms. walters: i'm sitting here like the great schoolteacher, letting you both get away with things, because one did it, the other one did it. may i ask in the future that the rebuttal stick to what the rebuttal is. and also, foreign policy will be the next debate. stop dragging it in by its ear into this one. [laughter] now, having admonished you, i would like to say to the panel, you are allowed one question and one follow-up. would you try, as best you could, not to ask two and three, i know it's something we all want to do, two and three questions as part one and two and three as part two. having said that, fred, it's yours. mr. barnes: thank you. mr. mondale, let me ask you about middle-class americans and the taxes they pay. now, i'm talking not about the rich or the poor, i know your views on their taxes, but about families earning 25,000 to 45,000 a year. do you think that those families are overtaxed or undertaxed by the federal government? mr. mondale: in my opinion, as we deal with this deficit, people from about $70,000 a year on down have to be dealt with very, very carefully, because they are the ones who didn't get any relief the first time around. under the 1981 tax bill, people making $200,000 a year got $60,000 in tax relief over 3 years, while people making $30,000 a year, all taxes considered, got no relief at all or their taxes actually went up. that's why my proposal protects everybody from $25,000 a year or less against any tax increases, and treats those $70,000 and under in a way that is more beneficial than the way the president proposes with a sales tax or a flat tax. what does this mean in real life? well, the other day, vice president bush disclosed his tax returns to the american people. he's one of the wealthiest americans, and he's our vice president. in 1981 i think he paid about 40 percent in taxes. in 1983, as a result of these tax preferences, he paid a little over 12 percent, 12.8 percent in taxes. that meant that he paid a lower percent in taxes than the janitor who cleaned up his office or the chauffeur who drives him to work. i believe we need some fairness. and that's why i've proposed what i think is a fair and a responsible proposal that helps protect these people who've already got no relief or actually got a tax increase. mr. barnes: it sounds as if you are saying you think this group of taxpayers making 25,000 to 45,000 a year is already overtaxed, yet your tax proposal would increase their taxes. i think your aides have said those earning about 25,000 to 35,000, their tax rate would go up, their tax bill would go up a hundred dollars, and from 35,000 to 45,000, more than that, several hundred dollars. wouldn't that stifle their incentive to work and invest and so on, and also hurt the recovery? mr. mondale: the first thing is, everybody 25,000 and under would have no tax increase. mr. reagan, after the election, is going to have to propose a tax increase, and you will have to compare what he proposes. and his secretary of the treasury said he's studying a sales tax or a value-added tax. they're the same thing. they hit middle- and moderate-income americans and leave wealthy americans largely untouched. up until about $70,000, as you go up the ladder, my proposals will be far more beneficial. as soon as we get the economy on a sound ground as well, i'd like to see the total repeal of indexing. i don't think we can do that for a few years. but at some point, we want to do that as well. mr. barnes: mr. president, let me try this on you. do you think middle-income americans are overtaxed or undertaxed? the president: you know, i wasn't going to say this at all, but i can't help it. there you go again. [laughter] i don't have a plan to tax, or increase taxes. i'm not going to increase taxes. i can understand why you are, mr. mondale, because as a senator you voted 16 times to increase taxes. now, i believe that our problem has not been that anybody in our country is undertaxed, it's that government is overfed. and i think that most of our people, this is why we had a 25-percent tax cut across the board which maintained the same progressivity of our tax structure in the brackets on up. and, as a matter of fact, it just so happens that in the quirks of administering these taxes, those above $50,000 actually did not get quite as big a tax cut percentage-wise as did those from 50,000 down. from 50,000 down, those people paid two-thirds of the taxes, and those people got two-thirds of the tax cut. now, the social security tax of '77, this indeed was a tax that hit people in the lower brackets the hardest. it had two features. it had several tax increases phased in over a period of time, there are two more yet to come between now and 1989. at the same time every year, it increased the amount of money, virtually every year, there may have been one or two that were skipped in there, that was subject to that tax. today it is up to about $38,000 of earnings that is subject to the payroll tax for social security. and that tax, there are no deductions, so a person making anywhere from 10, 15, 20, they're paying that tax on the full gross earnings that they have after they have already paid an income tax on that same amount of money. now, i don't think that to try and say that we were taxing the rich, and not the other way around, it just doesn't work out that way. the system is still where it was with regard to the progressivity, as i've said, and that has not been changed. but if you take it in numbers of dollars instead of percentage, yes, you could say, well, that person got 10 times as much as this other person. yes, but he paid 10 times as much, also. but if you take it in percentages, then you find out that it is fair and equitable across the board. mr. barnes: i thought i caught, mr. president, a glimmer of a stronger statement there in your answer than you've made before. i think the operative position you had before was that you would only raise taxes in a second term as a last resort, and i thought you said flatly that "i'm not going to raise taxes." is that what you meant to say, that you will not, that you will flatly not raise taxes in your second term as president? the president: yes, i had used, "last resort" would always be with me. if you got the government down to the lowest level, that you yourself could say it could not go any lower and still perform the services for the people, and if the recovery was so complete that you knew you were getting the ultimate amount of revenues that you could get through that growth, and there was still some slight difference there between those two lines, then i had said once that, yes, you would have to then look to see if taxes should not be adjusted. i don't foresee those things happening, so i say with great confidence i'm not going to go for a tax. with regard to assailing mr. bush about his tax problems and the difference from the tax he once paid and then the later tax he paid, i think if you looked at the deductions, there were great legal expenses in there, had to do, possibly, with the sale of his home, and they had to do with his setting up of a blind trust. all of those are legally deductions, deductible in computing your tax, and it was a 1-year thing with him. ms. walters: mr. mondale, here we go again. it's time for rebuttal. mr. mondale: well, first of all, i gave him the benefit of the doubt on the house deal. i'm just talking about the 12.8 percent that he paid, and that's what's happening all over this country with wealthy americans. they've got so many loopholes they don't have to pay much in taxes. now, mr. president, you said, "there you go again," right? the president: yes. mr. mondale: you remember the last time you said that? the president: mm-hmm. mr. mondale: you said it when president carter said that you were going to cut medicare, and you said, "oh, no, there you go again, mr. president." and what did you do right after the election? you went out and tried to cut $20 billion out of medicare. and so, when you say, "there you go again," people remember this, you know. [laughter] and people will remember that you signed the biggest tax increase in the history of california and the biggest tax increase in the history of the united states, and what are you going to do? you've got a $260 billion deficit. you can't wish it away. you won't slow defense spending, you refuse to do that, -- ms. walters: mr. mondale, i'm afraid your time is up. mr. mondale: sorry. ms. walters: mr. president? the president: yes. with regard to medicare, no, but it's time for us to say that medicare is in pretty much the same condition that social security was, and something is going to have to be done in the next several years to make it fiscally sound. and, no, i never proposed any $20 billion should come out of medicare, i have proposed that the program we must treat with that particular problem. and maybe part of that problem is because during the 4 years of the carter-mondale administration medical costs in this country went up 87 percent. ms.walters: all right. fine. the president: i gave you back some of that time. [laughter] ms. walters: we can't keep going back for other rebuttals, there'll be time later. we now go to our final round. the way things stand now, we have time for only two sets of questions, and by lot, it will be jim and diane. and we'll start with jim wieghart. mr. wieghart: mr. president, the economic recovery is real, but uneven. the census bureau, just a month ago, reported that there are more people living under poverty now, a million more people living under it, than when you took office. there have been a number of studies, including studies by the urban institute and other nonpolitical organizations, that say that the impact of the tax and budget cuts and your economic policies have impacted severely on certain classes of americans, working mothers, head of households, minority groups, elderly poor. in fact, they're saying the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer under your policies. what relief can you offer to the working poor, to the minorities, and to the women head of households who have borne the brunt of these economic programs? what can you offer them in the future, in your next term? the president: well, some of those facts and figures just don't stand up. yes, there has been an increase in poverty, but it is a lower rate of increase than it was in the preceding years before we got here. it has begun to decline, but it is still going up. on the other hand, women heads of household, single women heads of household have, for the first time there's been a turndown in the rate of poverty for them. we have found also in our studies that in this increase in poverty, it all had to do with their private earnings. it had nothing to do with the transfer of payments from government by way of many programs. we are spending now 37 percent more on food for the hungry in all the various types of programs than was spent in 1980. we're spending a third more on all of the, well, all of the programs of human service. we have more people receiving food stamps than were ever receiving them before, 2,300,000 more are receiving them, even though we took 850,000 off the food stamp rolls because they were making an income that was above anything that warranted their fellow citizens having to support them. we found people making 185 percent of the poverty level were getting government benefits. we have set a line at 130 percent so that we can direct that aid down to the truly needy. some time ago, mr. mondale said something about education and college students and help of that kind. half, one out of two of the full-time college students in the united states are receiving some form of federal aid. but there, again, we found people that there under the previous administration, families that had no limit to income were still eligible for low-interest college loans. we didn't think that was right. and so, we have set a standard that those loans and those grants are directed to the people who otherwise could not go to college, their family incomes were so low. so, there are a host of other figures that reveal that the grant programs are greater than they have ever been, taking care of more people than they ever have. 7.7 million elderly citizens who were living in the lowest 20 percent of earnings, 7.7 million have moved up into another bracket since our administration took over, leaving only 5 million of the elderly in that bracket when there had been more than 13 million. mr. wieghart: mr. president, in a visit to texas, in brownsville, i believe it was, in the rio grande valley, you did observe that the economic recovery was uneven. the president: yes. mr. wieghart: in that particular area of texas, unemployment was over 14 percent, whereas statewide, it was the lowest in the country, i believe, 5.6 percent. and you made the comment, however, that man does not live by bread alone. what did you mean by that comment? and if i interpret it correctly, it would be a comment more addressed to the affluent who obviously can look beyond just the bread they need to sustain them, with their wherewithal. the president: that had nothing to do with the other thing of talking about their needs or anything. i remember distinctly, i was segueing into another subject. i was talking about the things that have been accomplished, and that was referring to the revival of patriotism and optimism, the new spirit that we're finding all over america. and it is a wonderful thing to see when you get out there among the people. so, that was the only place that that was used. i did avoid, i'm afraid, in my previous answer, also, the idea of uneven, yes. there is no way that the recovery is even across the country, just as in the depths of the recession, there were some parts of the country that were worse off, but some that didn't even feel the pain of the recession. we're not going to rest and not going to be happy until every person in this country who wants a job can have one, until the recovery is complete across the country. mr. wieghart: mr. mondale, as you can gather from the question to the president, the celebrated war on poverty obviously didn't end the problem of poverty, although it may have dented it. the poor and the homeless and the disadvantaged are still with us. what should the federal government's role be to turn back the growth in the number of people living below the poverty level, which is now 35 million in the united states, and to help deal with the structural unemployment problems that the president was referring to in an uneven recovery? mr. mondale: number one, we've got to get the debt down to get the interest rates down so the economy will grow and people will be employed. number two, we have to work with cities and others to help generate economic growth in those communities, through the urban development action grant program. i don't mind those enterprise zones, let's try them, but not as a substitute for the others. certainly education and training is crucial. if these young americans don't have the skills that make them attractive to employers, they're not going to get jobs. the next thing is to try to get more entrepreneurship in business within the reach of minorities so that these businesses are located in the communities in which they're found. the other thing is, we need the business community as well as government heavily involved in these communities to try to get economic growth. there is no question that the poor are worse off. i think the president genuinely believes that they're better off. but the figures show that about 8 million more people are below the poverty line than 4 years ago. how you can cut school lunches, how you can cut student assistance, how you can cut housing, how you can cut disability benefits, how you can do all of these things and then the people receiving them, for example, the disabled, who have no alternative, how they're going to do better, i don't know. now, we need a tight budget, but there's no question that this administration has singled out things that affect the most vulnerable in american life, and they're hurting. one final point if i might. there's another part of the lopsided economy that we're in today, and that is that these heavy deficits have killed exports and are swamping the nation with cheap imports. we are now $120 billion of imports, 3 million jobs lost, and farmers are having their worst year. that's another reason to get the deficit down. mr. wieghart: mr. mondale, is it possible that the vast majority of americans who appear to be prosperous have lost interest in the kinds of programs you're discussing to help those less privileged than they are? mr. mondale: i think the american people want to make certain that that dollar is wisely spent. i think they stand for civil rights. i know they're all for education in science and training, which i strongly support. they want these young people to have a chance to get jobs and the rest. i think the business community wants to get involved. i think they're asking for new and creative ways to try to reach it with everyone involved. i think that's part of it. i think also that the american people want a balanced program that gives us long-term growth so that they're not having to take money that's desperate to themselves and their families and give it to someone else. i'm opposed to that, too. ms. walters: and now it is time for our rebuttal for this period. mr. president? the president: yes. the connection that's been made again between the deficit and the interest rates, there is no connection between them. there is a connection between interest rates and inflation, but i would call to your attention that in 1981 while we were operating still on the carter-mondale budget that we inherited, that the interest rates came down from 211/2, down toward the 12 or 13 figure. and while they were coming down, the deficits had started their great increase. they were going up. now, if there was a connection i think that there would be a different parallel between deficits getting larger and interest rates going down. the interest rates are based on inflation. and right now i have to tell you i don't think there is any excuse for the interest rates being as high as they are because we have brought inflation down so low. i think it can only be that they're anticipating or hope, expecting, not hoping, that maybe we don't have a control of inflation and it's going to go back up again. well, it isn't going to go back up. we're going to see that it doesn't. and i haven't got time to answer with regard to the disabled. ms. walters: thank you, mr. president. mr. mondale: mr. president, if i heard you correctly, you said that these deficits don't have anything to do with interest rates. i will grant you that interest rates were too high in 1980, and we can have another debate as to why, energy prices and so on. there's no way of glossing around that. but when these huge deficits went in place in 1981, what's called the real interest rates, the spread between inflation and what a loan costs you doubled, and that's still the case today. and the result is interest costs that have never been seen before in terms of real charges, and it's attributable to the deficit. everybody, every economist, every businessman, believes that. your own council of economic advisers, mr. feldstein in his report told you that. every chairman of the finance and ways and means committee, republican leaders in the senate and the house are telling you that. that deficit is ruining the long-term hopes for this economy. it's causing high interest rates. it's ruining us in trade. it's given us the highest small business failure in 50 years. the economy is starting downhill with housing failure, -- ms. walters: thank you, mr. mondale. you're both very obedient. i have to give you credit for that. we now start our final round of questions. we do want to have time for your rebuttal. we start with diane, diane sawyer. ms. sawyer: since we are reaching the end of the question period, and since in every presidential campaign, the candidates tend to complain that the opposition candidate is not held accountable for what he or she says, let me give you the chance to do that. mr. mondale, beginning with you. what do you think the most outrageous thing is your opponent said in this debate tonight? [laughter] mr. mondale: do you want to give me some suggestions? [laughter] i'm going to use my time a little differently. i'm going to give the president some credit. i think the president has done some things to raise the sense of spirit, morale, good feeling in this country, and he's entitled to credit for that. what i think we need, however, is not just that but to move forward, not just congratulating ourselves but challenging ourselves to get on with the business of dealing with america's problems. when he lectured the country about the importance of discipline, i didn't like it at first, but i think it helped a little bit. but now we need both that kind of discipline and the resources and the consistent leadership that allows this country to catch up in education and science and training. i like president reagan. and this is not personal, there are deep differences about our future, and that's the basis of my campaign. ms.sawyer: follow up in a similar vein, then. what remaining question would you most like to see your opponent forced to answer? mr. mondale: without any doubt, i have stood up and told the american people that that $263 billion deficit must come down. and i've done what no candidate for president has ever done, i told you before the election what i'd do. mr. reagan, as you saw tonight, president reagan takes the position it will disappear by magic. it was once called voodoo economics. i wish the president would say: yes, the cbo is right. yes, we have a $263 billion deficit. this is how i'm going to get it done. don't talk about growth, because even though we need growth, that's not helping. it's going to go in the other direction, as they've estimated. and give us a plan. what will you cut? whose taxes will you raise? will you finally touch that defense budget? are you going to go after social security and medicare and student assistance and the handicapped again as you did last time? if you'd just tell us what you're going to do, then the american people could compare my plan for the future with your plan. and that's the way it should be. the american people would be in charge. ms.sawyer: mr. president, the most outrageous thing your opponent has said in the debate tonight? the president: well, now, i have to start with a smile, since his kind words to me. i'll tell you what i think has been the most outrageous thing in political dialog, both in this campaign and the one in '82. and that is the continued discussion and claim that somehow i am the villain who is going to pull the social security checks out from those people who are dependent on them. and why i think it is outrageous, first of all, it isn't true. but why it is outrageous is because, for political advantage, every time they do that, they scare millions of senior citizens who are totally dependent on social security, have no place else to turn. and they have to live and go to bed at night thinking, "is this true? is someone going to take our check away from us and leave us destitute?" and i don't think that that should be a part of political dialog. now, to, i still, i just have a minute here? ms. walters: you have more time. the president: oh, i, -- ms. walters: you can keep going. the president: okay. all right. now, social security, let's lay it to rest once and for all. i told you never would i do such a thing. but i tell you also now, social security has nothing to do with the deficit. social security is totally funded by the payroll tax levied on employer and employee. if you reduce the out-go of social security, that money would not go into the general fund to reduce a deficit. it would go into the social security trust fund. so, social security has nothing to do with balancing a budget or erasing or lowering the deficit. now, again, to get to whether i am depending on magic, i think i have talked in straight economic terms about a program of recovery that i was told wouldn't work. and then, after it worked, i was told that lowering taxes would increase inflation. and none of these things happened. it is working, and we're going to continue on that same line. as to what we might do, and find in further savings cuts, no, we're not going to starve the hungry. but we have 2,478 specific recommendations from a commission of more than 2,000 business people in this country, through the grace commission, that we're studying right now, and we've already implemented 17 percent of them, that are recommendations as to how to make government more efficient, more economic. ms. sawyer: and to keep it even, what remaining question would you most like to see your opponent forced to answer? the president: why the deficits are so much of a problem for him now, but that in 1976, when the deficit was $52 billion and everyone was panicking about that, he said, no, that he thought it ought to be bigger, because a bigger deficit would stimulate the economy and would help do away with unemployment. in 1979 he made similar statements, the same effect, that the deficits, there was nothing wrong with having deficits. remember, there was a trillion dollars in debt before we got here. that's got to be paid by our children and grandchildren, too, if we don't do it. and i'm hoping we can start some payments on it before we get through here. that's why i want another 4 years. ms. walters: well, we have time now, if you'd like to answer the president's question, or whatever rebuttal. mr. mondale: well, we've just finished almost the whole debate. and the american people don't have the slightest clue about what president reagan will do about these deficits. [laughter] and yet, that's the most important single issue of our time. i did support the '76 measure that he told about, because we were in a deep recession and we needed some stimulation. but i will say as a democrat, i was a real piker, mr. president. in 1979 we ran a $29 billion deficit all year. this administration seems to run that every morning. and the result is exactly what we see. this economy is starting to run downhill. housing is off. last report on new purchases, it's the lowest since 1982. growth is a little over 3 percent now. many people are predicting a recession. and the flow of imports into this country is swamping the american people. we've got to deal with this problem, and those of us who want to be your president should tell you now what we're going to do, so you can make a judgment. ms. walters: thank you very much. we must stop now. i want to give you time for your closing statements. it's indeed time for that from each of you. we will begin with president reagan. oh, i'm sorry, mr. reagan, you had your rebuttal, and i just cut you off because our time is going. you have a chance now for rebuttal before your closing statement. is that correct? the president: no, i might as well just go with, -- ms.walters: do you want to go with your, -- the president: i don't think so. i'm all confused now. ms. walters: technically, you did. i have little voices that come in my ear. [laughter] you don't get those same voices. i'm not hearing it from here, i'm hearing it from here. the president: all right. ms. walters: you have waived your rebuttal. you can go with your closing four years ago, in similar circumstances to this, i asked you, the american people, a question. i asked: "are you better off than you were 4 years before?" the answer to that obviously was no, and as the result, i was elected to this office and promised a new beginning. now, maybe i'm expected to ask that same question again. i'm not going to, because i think that all of you, or not everyone, those people that are in those pockets of poverty and haven't caught up, they couldn't answer the way i would want them to, but i think that most of the people in this country would say, yes, they are better off than they were 4 years ago. the question, i think, should be enlarged. is america better off than it was 4 years ago? and i believe the answer to that has to also be "yes." i promised a new beginning. so far, it is only a beginning. if the job were finished, i might have thought twice about seeking reelection for this job. but we now have an economy that, for the first time, well, let's put it this way: in the first half of 1980, gross national product was down a minus 3.7 percent. the first half of '84 it's up 8.5%. productivity in the first half of 1980 was down a minus 2 percent. today it is up a plus 4 percent. personal earnings after taxes per capita have gone up almost $3,000 in these 4 years. in 1980, or 1979, a person with a fixed income of $8,000 was $500 above the poverty line, and this maybe explains why there are the numbers still in poverty. by 1980 that same person was $500 below the poverty line. we have restored much of our economy. with regard to business investment, it is higher than it has been since 1949. so, there seems to be no shortage of investment capital. we have, as i said, cut the taxes, but we have reduced inflation, and for 2 years now it has stayed down there, not at double digit, but in the range of 4 or below. we believe that we had also promised that we would make our country more secure. yes, we have an increase in the defense budget. but back then we had planes that couldn't fly for lack of spare parts or pilots. we had navy vessels that couldn't leave harbor because of lack of crew or, again, lack of spare parts. today we're well on our way to a 600-ship navy. we have 543 at present. we have, our military, the morale is high. i think the people should understand that two-thirds of the defense budget pays for pay and salary, or pay and pension. and then you add to that food and wardrobe, and all the other things, and you only have a small portion going for weapons. but i am determined that if ever our men are called on, they should have the best that we can provide in the manner of tools and weapons. there has been reference to expensive spare parts, hammers costing $500. well, we are the ones who found those. i think we've given the american people back their spirit. i think there's an optimism in the land and a patriotism, and i think that we're in a position once again to heed the words of thomas paine, who said: "we have it in our power to begin the world over again." ms. walters: thank you, mr. reagan. mr. mondale, the closing words are now yours. mr. mondale: i want to thank the league of women voters and the city of louisville for hosting this evening's debate. i want to thank president reagan for agreeing to debate. he didn't have to, and he did, and we all appreciate it. the president's favorite question is: are you better off? well, if you're wealthy, you're better off. if you're middle income, you're about where you were. and if you're modest income, you're worse off. that's what the economists tell us. but is that really the question that should be asked? isn't the real question is will we be better off? will our children be better off? are we building the future that this nation needs? i believe that if we ask those questions that bear on our future, not just congratulate ourselves but challenge us to solve those problems, you'll see that we need new leadership. are we better of with this arms race? will we be better off if we start this star wars escalation into the heavens? are we better off when we deemphasize our values in human rights? are we better off when we load our children with this fantastic debt? would fathers and mothers feel proud of themselves if they loaded their children with debts like this nation is now, over a trillion dollars on the shoulders of our children? can we say, really say that we will be better off when we pull away from sort of that basic american instinct of decency and fairness? i would rather lose a campaign about decency than win a campaign about self-interest. i don't think this nation is composed of people who care only for themselves. and when we sought to assault social security and medicare, as the record shows we did, i think that was mean-spirited. when we terminated 400,000 desperate, hopeless, defenseless americans who were on disability, confused and unable to defend themselves, and just laid them out on the street, as we did for 4 years, i don't think that's what america is all about. america is a fair society, and it is not right that vice president bush pays less in taxes than the janitor who helps him. i believe there's fundamental fairness crying out that needs to be achieved in our tax system. i believe that we will be better off if we protect this environment. and contrary to what the president says, i think their record on the environment is inexcusable and often shameful. these laws are not being enforced, have not been enforced, and the public health and the air and the water are paying the price. that's not fair for our future. i think our future requires a president to lead us in an all-out search to advance our education, our learning, and our science and training, because this world is more complex and we're being pressed harder all the time. i believe in opening doors. we won the olympics, in part, because we've had civil rights laws and the laws that prohibit discrimination against women. i have been for those efforts all my life. the president's record is quite different. the question is our future. president kennedy once said in response to similar arguments, "we are great, but we can be greater." we can be better if we face our future, rejoice in our strengths, face our problems, and by solving them, build a better society for our children. thank you. ms. walters: thank you, mr. mondale. [applause] please, we have not finished quite yet. thank you, mr. mondale, and thank you, mr. president. and our thanks to our panel members, as well. and so we bring to a close this first of the league of women voters presidential debates of 1984. you two can go at each again in the final league debate on october 21st, in kansas city, missouri. and this thursday night, october 11th, at 9:00 p.m. eastern daylight time, the vice president, george bush, will debate congresswoman geraldine ferraro in philadelphia. and i hope that you will all watch once again. no matter what the format is, these debates are very important. we all have an extremely vital decision to make. once more, gentlemen, our thanks. once more, to you, our thanks. now, this is barbara walters wishing you a good evening. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [applause] once more, we will have a for thent of, by, and people. >> we are stronger together. and no matter what, remember this. love trumps hate. >> c-span 2016 continues on the road to the white house with the first presidential debate tonight beginning at 7:30 p.m. eastern with a preview of the debate. at 8:30, the briefing for the audience. at 9:00 p.m., live coverage of the debate followed by viewer reaction. the 2016 presidential debate on c-span. watch on c-span.org or listen on the c-span radio app. >> donald trump outline his plans for the economy, education, and national security yesterday in virginia. this is about 30 minutes. [applause] mr. trump: so i thought we would start early, and all you fans pouring in from outside, virginia tech won the game. amazing. they are all outside trying to come in. so let's not wait. it is great to be in virginia. i have some great properties with some great employees. they have a brand-new poll out with us leading by five points nationwide. on november 8 we are going to win this state and we are going to win at the white house. we are going to take on the big donors and big business and big media. we are going to take on the rigged system to ship americans wealth to other countries and they keep doing so. we are going to replace our failed and corrupt establishment with a government that serves you and your family and your country. my economic agenda can be summed up by some very powerful words. jobs, jobs, jobs. we will cut taxes for all working and middle-class households in america. we will reduce regulations, which will put more money into the hands of the poorest workers, and bring thousands of new companies to our shores. we will unleash american energy, creating millions of new jobs and lowering energy costs for everyone. we will repeal and replace obama care. president obama promises his plan will reduce premiums by $2500 per year. instead they have searched to $5,000 per year more. our replacement plan. that is true. it includes expanded access to health care savings account with support for those who need it. it includes allowing americans to buy health insurance across state lines in all 50 states. [applause] mr. trump: right? a dynamic and competitive new market. they will be competing for your business, you will be making your own deals and they will be greater than you thought possible, believe me. a lot of them today, you don't know what they will be because they will get better with competition. we are also going to block grant medicaid to states to ensure that they can come up with solutions to ensure that citizens and poverty never fall through the cracks. those with pre-existing conditions will always get the quality coverage they need. on trade, we are going to end the international abuse, the foreign cheating, and the one-sided rules that govern nafta. what a deal that is. and the wto. right now, america eliminates its tariffs, but other countries tax us with backdoor tariffs. they tax us but we don't tax them. not too good. it is a one-way highway out of the country for our jobs and money. our massive trade deficit is destroying the middle class and shifting money away from workers to large corporations who have no borders. there is a reason the wall street donors are giving tens of millions of dollars to my opponent. hillary clinton is the voice for global special interests. i'm running to be the voice of the forgotten men and women of this country. [applause] mr. trump: believe me, they are forgotten. my opponent likes to say that for decades she is been fighting for women. that she has been fighting for children. why then are 70 million american women and children living in poverty or on the brink of poverty in our country? why has she provided no relief to the millions of americans and search of affordable, reliable, quality child care? four years she is been doing this and she has done nothing. you know the old saying, watch what i do, not what i say. at the trump organization and in my campaign for president, women occupy some of the highest positions. i have employed thousands of women in my country, women of different backgrounds and talents. just last week, joined by my daughter ivanka, i laid out my plan for childcare and elder care. that plan has many great features, including tax-free childcare savings accounts, low income parents are given tax credits they can put straight into those accounts and get a $500 per child match for those deposits. families can also did up the cost of childcare from their taxes, a huge tax cuts for the middle class. we also have, and as we have been doing, we have been talking a lot about improving education. my plan includes school choice for every single disadvantaged child in america. [applause] mr. trump: and we're going to get rid of and totally and common core. [applause] mr. trump: we are also going to bring down the cost of college. universities get massive federal funds at huge tax breaks for your endowments but they don't spend those endowments on their students. i will work with congress to make sure these special federal benefits are not available and less universities begin to reduce tuition and student debt. it is too expensive. [applause] mr. trump: and this will get it. this will really do it. this is the problem. it is right smack in the middle of the source. reduce both the cost for students and taxpayers. our students are drowning in debt and we will fix it. [applause] mr. trump: women also, by the way, value security. they want a commander-in-chief that will defeat radical islamic terrorism -- [applause] mr. trump: it is time. going on too long. now in 30 countries. it started off any little area. they left a big vacuum, hillary clinton and barack obama, and now it is in 30 countries, maybe more. we want to stop the massive influx of refugees. protect our borders. [applause] mr. trump: and we want to reduce the rising crime and violence in our cities. [applause] mr. trump: we will build a wall, i promise. we will build a wall. [applause] mr. trump: and mexico will pay for the wall. [applause] mr. trump: they will. as i campaign across this country, i hear so many stories and pleas from women especially about drug addiction and opioid abuse. they're doing the best for their communities and families provide a safe and nurturing environment. but even the best laid plans cannot always protect our use. increasingly, many adults from the scourge of drugs, this is a scourge. we lose thousands of fellow americans every year from drugs and opioid abuse. i will stop the drug in flow from our borders, believe me. [applause] mr. trump: these terrible drugs come over the border and make their way into our urban and rural communities and into our suburbs. this must stop, this must change. the people that are there now, your so-called leadership group will never change it. that includes hillary, believe me. every change starts the conversation. together, we will have this conversation and we will make this change 100%. the change will start immediately. here in virginia, we are going to end the war on american energy and on our miners. hillary clinton says she wants to put them out of work. [booing] mr. trump: hillary clinton and tim kaine also want to shut down shale and natural gas. what they have done is incredible. the clinton regulatory agenda will drive up energy prices for virginia families and will cost the u.s. economy over $5 trillion. by the way, tim kaine, less than a week after taking office in virginia proposed a $4 billion tax on your state. a $4 billion hike including on people earning as little as $17,000 per year. [booing] mr. trump: one week in office and he proposed a $4 billion tax hike. he is not very popular. he won his election by a very close margin. when i heard she picked him, i thought maybe this is good for me, we are tied in virginia and we have not started advertising. they've been spending a fortune. she made the wrong pick. we will open up american sources of energy and bring jobs and cheaper energy to virginia and around the country. another major part of our agenda is safety. i believe every family in america is entitled to live in safety and peace. [applause] mr. trump: today the nation just opened the smithsonian national museum of african american history. it is really a beautiful place. i saw it in washington and it is beautiful, we are all proud of it. we congratulate and honor those involved with the project and recognize today the incredible contributions of the african-american community to this nation. african-americans have given so much to our nation and sacrificed so much for this nation. many african-americans are succeeding so greatly in our country and i'll make sure their successes protected and supported. at the same time, too many african-americans have been left behind and trapped in poverty. i will fight to make sure every single african-american child in this country is fully included in the american dream. [applause] mr. trump: that includes the new civil rights issue of our time, school choice. democrats have run the inner cities for half a century or more and produced only more joblessness and more poverty. the jobs are leaving, the schools are failing and crime is rising like never before in the inner cities. to those african-american and hispanic voters, i say vote for donald trump. what do you have to lose? [applause] mr. trump: i will fix it. i will fight harder for you than anyone has before. the policies of hillary clinton have brought only suffering in our inner cities, just like her judgment overseas unleashed suffering everywhere she went. she has got bad judgment. the clintons made another $60 million in gross income while she was secretary of state. think of that. worst of all, she put her public office up for sale and then bleached her e-mails and destroyed her iphones with a hammer. she was trying to cover up her tracks following a congressional subpoena. figure that one out. [shouting] there's a reason the hedge fund managers are donating to hillary clinton's campaign and not mine. everybody getting rich off the rigged system, and who wants really nothing but keeping it he same? they want to keep it just the same and they are throwing their money at hillary clinton. i wonder why. my campaign is powered by my own money, and by small dollar donations from everyday -- everybody and all of our patriotic citizens. 90% of our donors are small dollar donations. we are setting records for the republican party. every dollar helps us deliver your county, your country, your rea, virginia. it all essentially's goes back to you. we will make it a better place where we keep jobs and bring new jobs in. our campaign is about breaking up the special interest monopoly in washington, d.c. we're trying to disrupt the collusion between the wealthy donors, the large corporations, nd the media executives. they're all part of the same political establishment. they go to the same restaurants, they attend the same conferences, they have the same friends and connections. they all support the same ideology of globalism that makes them rich while shipping your jobs, your factories, and your wealth to other countries. in particular lately to mexico. i am not running to be president of the world. i am running to be president of the united states. i am for america and america irst always. america first. together, we will rebuild this country beyond of our dreams. we have such unbelievable -- the potential in this country. i've gone all over the country. the crowd, everything. the people are so incredible. our leading -- leaders are leading us down a deadly path. whether it's the military that is so depleted. they had depleted equipment. everything is wrong. vets are being so badly treated. how many veterans to be have today? you have illegal immigrants being treated better than our veterans in many cases. that is not going to happen. that is not going to happen anymore. government will start working again. fixing things is what i do. just look at my projects in new york city, where i turned rundown spaces into new centers of business, activity and opportunity where others saw only problems, i saw only potential. we turned empty lots into homes, offices and living memories for thousands of workers and their families. that's what i want to do for our country but on a very big scale. i want to go in -- i want to go into the neglected neighborhoods, the failing schools, the forgotten stretches of this nation, and unlock their potential for all of our people. i've made a living for years looking at unused spaces and imagining what they could be. politicians look at blighted neighborhoods and offer only excuses. all they want is the vote. in the inner city in particular. give us your vote and we will see you in four years. they do nothing. i look at those same neighborhoods and offer solutions. everything broken today can be fixed. all we have to do is to an out the doubters, the cynics and the naysayers and there are lenty of them. we are a nation of strivers, dreamers, and believers and that's the spirit that will carry us to victory in november, and to great victories as a nation. legal be respected again as a nation. -- we will be respected as a ation. it's that same spirit of resilience i have seen visiting the flood-ravaged towns in louisiana, or meeting with the incredible but hard-hit people in cities and towns like flint, michigan. what a shame. what they have done in flint. spent hundreds of millions of dollars to destroy the water system. if they had left it alone, it would've been ok. hundreds of millions of dollars and now they need hundreds of millions of dollars more. it used to be where the cars were made in flint. and you couldn't drink the water in mexico. today, cars are made in mexico, and you can't drink the water n flint. no good, folks. we'll turn it all around. but that means you need to show up and vote on november 8. you have to show up. you have to knock on doors. you have to pick up that phone. you have to campaign on the streets, spread the love we have. this is a movement like no one has seen in this country. spread the love that we have in this room. to beat the system, you have to lift your voice, pound the pavement, and get out the vote. get all your friends out to vote. you have 44 days until the big vote. you have 44 days to make possible every dream you ever dreamed for yourself and for your country. you have one magnificent chance to deliver justice for every forgotten man, woman, and child in this nation. the arrogance of washington, d.c. will soon come face to face with the righteous verdict of the american voter. believe me, it's enough. his november we are going to show the whole world that america is back, bigger and better and stronger than ever efore. here is just some of what will happen starting in january of 017. i am going to lower your taxes; -- hillary is going to raise our taxes substantially. i am going to eliminate every unnecessary regulation of which there are many. hillary will keep it going worse than ever before. we are going to unleash american energy. we will be so good to our miners. we will get those miners back. we will and illegal immigration and yes, we will build the all. we will rebuild your depleted military. and again take care of our eterans. and we are going to support and cherish our police officers and irefighters. we will save our second amendment, which is under siege. and we are going to appoint justices to the supreme court of the united states who will uphold and defend the constitution of the united tates. we will rebuild our roads, bridges, tunnels, highways, airports, schools, and hospitals. we will rebuild the infrastructure of our country which is crumbling like never efore. t will be rebuilt. american cars will travel the roads, american planes will soar the skies, and american ships will patrol the seas. american steel will send new skyscrapers into the louds. and i will keep saying it because i love to say it, we will put our great miners and steelworkers back to work. american hands will rebuild this nation and american energy, harvested from american sources, will power this ation. american workers will be hired do do the job. we will put new american steel into the spine of our country. i will fight for every neglected part of this nation and i will fight to bring us all together as one people. imagine what our country could accomplish if we started working together as one people under one god saluting one american flag. cheers and applause] it's time to break with the embrace a new, inclusive process american. we don't have that now. we owe trillions of dollars. our debt has doubled since president obama assumed office. all those hundreds of years and in 7 maff years our debt has doubled. and our country's a mess. our roads, our bridges are bad. our military is depleted. it's one thing if it doubles but you would like to see everything in top shape. but it's not. it's a mess. hillary clinton has a twhree-word campaign pledge. and it reads, i'm with her. i have a different pledge. my pledge reads, i'm with you, the american people. cheers and applause] in all of our cities and towns i say these words to you tonight. i'm with you. i will fight for you. and i will win for you. and we will win together and we ill win a lot. once more, we will have a government of, by, and for the people. we will make america wealthy again. we will make america strong again. and we will make america safe again. but you mow what else? we will make -- know what else? we will make america great again. god bless you. thank you, everybody. thank you. cheers and applause] >> president obama presented the 2015 national medal of arts and national humanities. cipients include mel brooks, this is 35 minutes. [applause] the recipient of the 2015 national humanities medal. [applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, the president of the united states. >> thank you. everybody please have a seat. thank you so much. everybody please sit down. this is a rowdy crowd. sit down. welcome to the white house, everybody. throughout my time here michelle and i have tried to make it a priority to promote the arts and the humanities, especially for our young people. and it's because we believe that's arts and the humanities are in many way reflective of our national soul. they're central to who we are as americans. dreamers and story tellers and innovators and visionaries. what helps us make sense of the past, the good and the bad, how we chart a course for the future while leaving something of ourselves for the next generation to learn from. and we are here today to honor the very best of their fields. creators who give every piece of themselves to their craft. as mel brooks once said -- to is writers on blazing saddles, which is a great film. write anything you want because you'll never be heard from again. we will all be arrested from his movie. to be fair, mel also said, a little more eloquently, that every human being has hundreds of separate people living inside their skin and the talent of a writer is the ability to give separate names personalities and have them relate to other characters. that is what they do the lift upon identities and make us see ourselves and each other and oday's honorees each possess a gift for this kind of creative sympathy that allows us to exchange the sense of what is most important and profound and identify with our collective experience as americans. we have an impressive crew here with us today we have terry and whole bunch of people who he's interviewed. we have our share of the national endowment of the arts. beau adams, chairman of the national endowment of the humanities. who also just has a cool name. and we thank the members of congress that are here for their strong support of the arts and humanities. but today to focus on our recipients of the national medals of the arts and humanities are poets, artists, journalists, professors, istorians and at least a chef. their paths could hardly be different and that is what makes them great. they take a piece of this bold and energetic country and they reshape it and share it with s. they open our experienced affairs and for that, we honor them here today. we honor the oets whose poem captured the emotions of everyday people. throughout life, the readers have taught her that there are eaters that will receive. as she strives to be there for others and for poets that are er students and readers alike. once when asked how she hoped the world would respond to the work she said she wanted william blake to come down from heaven and say you did a very good job. now i don't think that's happened so you'll have o settle for us today. as a trained cab driver, his work is full of contradictions that crossed the cultures. when the music he made straight from the conventions the audiences didn't always know how to react. i understand that there've been some eggs thrown occasionally but he said what seems strange or bizarre history -- for strange period of time changes and easy. the symphonies and operas and he's roven that change can be beautiful. the masterpiece, the warmth of other sons made the story of the great migration of african-americans from the south and north and west accessible to a new generation of americans. they spent years tracking between archives and living rooms, interviewing more than 1200 people who told stories of heartbreak ultimately overcoming. stories they found too painful even with their own children and through it all she had to conquer her task and prove wrong some others and one of the most important chapters in history as told in the book any person can read. that's just a sampling of the extraordinary accomplishments that are epresented here today. terry gross, james mcbride, the person university project, jack, isabel ilkerson. we also honor mark salus who couldn't be here today and morgan freeman who undoubtedly is off playing a black president again. he never lets me have my moment. of those that were used to tell them arefillthem are more diverse than ever before. they re large containing multitudes hat's what is so great about this country is that there is no single set way to contribute. all of us belong and have a story to tell even when you think your stories to story is too different, too strange, unique there's someone out there that has been waiting their whole life to hear you tell your story because it is just like there's. what a great gift all of you have given us. so we thank you. today's honorees who have the bravery to go first and told the story and make us feel a little bit better about ours. .. >> unbeaten applause] the 2015 national medal of arts for his round-breaking contributions for a lifetime of making the world laugh. as a writer, director, actor, musician he his work has earned him the distinction of winning oscar, grammy, tony awards. [applause] the 2015 national medal of arts for enriching the american narrative, through her novels short storeags and poetry she explores race, class, and gender. she has deepnd our understanding of american identity. [applause] accepting on behalf of the o'neal center. for its unwavering support of american theater. for over a years the center has nurtured award winning play writes, enriched the craft and delighted audiences. [applause] phillip glass. the 2015 national medal of arts to phillip glass for his contributions to music and composition. he has expanded musical ssibilities with his op ras, symphonies, film scores. [applause] barry gordy. the 2015 national medal of arts to have the trail blazing new sounded music as a song or later helped to build motown with legendary artist. helping to shape our applause] the y. 2015 national medal of arts goes to expand the horizon of music helping to spread music with this sounds and cultures of mexico could to button accordion have captivated udiences around the world. the 2015 national medal of arts for his powerful contributions his work probes the uh questions of culture and sexuality his award winning project continues to move audiences with contemporary social issues. the 2015 national medal of arts goes to roll for his contributions for dance and visual arts uses dance as communication as complex work as examination from all hinders with - - shingles with an intimate truth for the american experience. if mr. bell does. the 2015 national medal of arts goes to mr. velez for bringing chicano culture to eliminate the iq and spirit with social injustice through stage and television and film production. [applause] >> the 2015 national medal of arts to jack witen. as ang abstract artist uses casting, paint and compounds, challenging our perceptions as powerful works of art put the american story in a new light. audrey mcdonald. he 2015 national medal of arts for lighting up broadway as one of our brightest stars. she has won six tony awards in musicals, concepts, operas. and recording studio. [applause] his works celebrate the chick ano experience. as an educator he has spread a love of literature to new generations. [applause] inaudible] jose and ress. 2015 national humanities medal or cultivating our cultures. he e has introduced through his kitchen, work on clean cooking technology, or the inspiration he provides to new americans. [applause] ron chernow. the 2015 national humanities medal for bringing our nation's stories to life. through his examination of america's giants and titans he invites his readers to uncover their weaknesses and foibles. [applause] lieuition glick. the 2015 humanities medal for giving lirkle expression to our inner complex. her use of verse connects to the the past and the magical world and who we are. [applause] the 2015 national humanities medal to terry gross for her artful probing of the human experience. over four decades, has pushed to reveal simple truth that is ffirm our common humanity. james mcbride. for humanizing the complexities of discussing race in america. through writings about his own story and his works of fiction his moving stories display the character of the american amily. for prose and essays inviting us to think in new ways. his works of intellectual and cultural history probe the power of ideas from one era to he next. elaine pagold. for her exploration of faith and traditions. through her study of ancient man scripts she has generated ew interest in dialogue. accepting on behalf of the prison university project. the 2015 national humanities medal to the project for transforming the lives of currently incarcerated people through incarceration offering opportunity, providing an xample to others to emulate. for reminding us that the patient is the center of the medical enterprise. his range of proficiency embodies diversity to his efforts to his imaginative endergs. sabelle wilkerson. for championing the stories of an unsung history. her compnation of intimate human narratives with broader societal trends allows us to measure the migration of people on its vast impact on our ation. >> give them a big round of applause again. [applause] once again we thank them for their extraordinary contributions. we look forward to all the work they will be doing in the future. just a couple of other comments. ne, i think you have the coolest outfit, especially those spiked sneakers. i'm glad that audrey's already a good friend of mine. so the fact they left out the citation i think she'll forgive me. and i do think mel brooks kind of set the tone for this evening. historicically, there's been a much more stayed affair. but somehow i think my quote of him in the beginning threw everything off. everybody have fun. enjoy the reception. thank you. god bless you.

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