Transcripts For CSPAN Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20150502 : c

in her view. you know. and she used to tell us, whatever was bothering her all the time we'd say like, mom, enough, stop. she'd say to me, no, no, no, no, i'm getting this off my chest and i'm getting it off right now, you're going to listen. there will be no deathbed confessions in this family you're hearing it now. and i will tell you that, you know, it forms who you are right? the ethic i was taught is if there was a problem, talk about it now. if there's an issue get it off your chest. if you feel something, let people know it. and so it's hard then to get into politics and say, i'm going to conduct myself completely differently than the way i've conducted myself for the 40-plus years before i got involved in politics. my mom used to say to me all the time, christopher, be yourself. because then tomorrow you don't have to worry about remembering who you pretended to be yesterday. it's great advice. i'll end with this, to give you greater insight to the impact this has on real lives. so i -- i'm talking about my mom in the past tense because she passed away 11 years ago next week. and she is the formative figure in my life and i tease my father all the time, he comes to my town hall meetings, i say, to understand my parent's relationship, in the automobile of life my father was the passenger. and he really doesn't like that but -- but i do so what the hell. [laughter] so my mom in february of 2004 was on valentine's day was diagnosed with lung cancer. and she had been a lifetime smoker. and her disease progressed very quickly. and so by the end of april of 2004, i was at the u.s. attorney's national conference in san diego and i got a call from my younger brother saying to me, listen, mom's back in the hospital. really bad. if you want to see her, you have to get home now. i flew back to new jersey and landed at newark airport and got in the car and drove to the hospital. and i got there and they started to give her morphine and trying to manage her pain and i waited for her to wake up. she had not seen me for a week and said what day is it? i said it's friday. she said what time is it? 9:30 in the morning. she said go to work. [laughter] governor christie: i said, mom i decided to take the day off. i'm going to spend the day with you. she said, christopher, it is a work day, go to work. i said are you afraid i'm taking advantage of taxpayers' money. she said go to work, it's where you belong, there's nothing left unsaid between us. and you know what? she was right. because of the way she taught me to conduct our lives. that thing she used to say all the time, you are going to hear it now. there are no deathbed confessions in this family. she was right. there didn't need to be. i knew she loved me. i knew the things she wanted to change about me, but ran out of time to do it. right? i knew all that. so i leaned over and kissed her and i said ok, i'm going to work and i left and i never saw her again. but she let me go. if you want to understand the balance, in me, the balance is what i'm thinking in here what should i say or shouldn't i say, i think of her. and think if she were here now to watch the circus that my life has become, she would say two things to me. first thing she would say, remember, i changed your diapers, don't act like a big shot to me. and second, i could only imagine what she would say now. and secondly, she would say these people trusted you with the most important job that they could give you in the state you were born and raised. you owe the person that. and so that's where i come down on the balance and has nothing to do with political calculation and everything to do with who i am and in the end, if you lose that, you have no business being a leader any way. be who you are. some people will like it and there may be some days where i may some things, maybe i want to phrase differently upon reflection. but here's the one thing that all of you will learn about me you will never have to wonder is that how he thinks, how he feels, and is that what he is going to do or does he mean it when he says he's not going to do. if that's your cup of tea, new jersey has said we like this guy. and if i decide to run for anything again, if people like that, then that's what they'll get. if they don't, then i'll go home. but either way i'm going to be who i am and that's the balance. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> thank you, governor christie. ladies and gentlemen, thank you for coming today. >> 150 years ago this weekend grieving nation gathered along the route of abraham lincoln's funeral train as it made its way from washington to his final resting place in springfield illinois. this sunday afternoon at 2:30 p.m. on c-span2 we are live from oak ridge cemetery in springfield to commemorate the anniversary of president lincoln's funeral with over 1000 reenactors and a re-creation of the 1865 eulogy. speeches and musical performances as well as historians and authors and a tour of the newly re-created car. on c-span this weekend at 10 a.m. eastern, the grand prize winners in our documentary competition. at 8:00, the festivities of the state visit of the japanese prime minister, including the arrival of the white house and the toast. saturday morning at 10:38 p.m. the issue of same-sex marriage on whether the 14th the minute required -- amendment requires a state to license a marriage between two people of the same sex. on book tv this weekend at 10:00, peter slevin looks at the life of first lady michelle obama from childhood to the white house. our live three-hour conversation with johnraws ronson who has written many books. join the conversation with jon ronson who also be taking your comments and tweets. get the complete schedule at c-span.org. >> sunday night, washington post national security reporter walter pincus on the situation in the middle east and his opinion on the 2003 invasion of iraq. walter: one of the things about the bush administration was they never claimed to be an expert on the middle east or iraq. and proved it. history has proven it. is it we look at things from our own point of view and get deceived by it. you can go back to vietnam which is a great example of the first time we did it openly. trying to think that other people are like us. the world is different and particularly i east, it is a totally different culture. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a. >> ohio governor john kasich is among those considering a presidential run for 2016. he sent out friday with reporters at a breakfast hosted by the christian science monitor. the governor talked about the recent unrest in baltimore immigration, same-sex marriage and his decision to expand medicaid under the federal health care law. this is just under one hour. >> thank you all for coming. our guest today is ohio governor john kasich. this is his sixth visit with our group. the last appearance was in june 1997. it has been too long. our guest moved to ohio to attend the ohio state university. after graduation, he worked for a state legislator and at age 26, he ran a door-to-door campaign for state senator becoming the youngest member ever elected to the ohio senate. he eventually served as the chairman of the house budget committee where he was a key architect for the act of 1997. he left congress in 2001 and became an executive at lehman brothers and the host of a fox news program. he won an overwhelming victory in his bid for reelection last year. now on to this afternoon's mechanics. as always, we are on the record here. no live blogging or tweeting. no filing of any kind to give us a chance to listen to what our guest says. to help you resist that selfis urge, we will e-mail you pictures. if you would like to ask a question, please do a traditional thing and send me a subtle nonthreatening signal. i will happily call on one and all in the time we have available. we will offer our guest the opportunity to make opening comments and we will move to questions around the table. thank you for doing this, the floor is yours. governor kasich: i think this is the first time i have been in washington twice in one week since 2000 when i walked out of this place. something must be going on for me to be here. it is nice to be back and be with all of you. i remember the old breakfast i used to do that in the old days when washington -- people got along and you can discuss things. i am thrilled to be back here and honored you would come. david: we will start around the table with david jackson, phil rucker. elizabeth warner. carolyn ryan. that should keep us going. you are obviously thinking about running for president. is there a niche that you see yourself filling in the party? as you told chuck todd on "meet the press" that what you had was more experience than anyone else. governor kasich: not only having been in the legislature and congress but being chairman of the budget committee -- not just talking about a balance budget but being one of the architects to achieve it, and then i spent 18 years on the armed services committee. i have extensive national security experience. i went on for 10 years to find out if all of the things i have been talking about were true. turns out most of them were. i became governor in the state's lowest history. an $8 billion hold, 350,000 private sector jobs, credit hanging in the balance. put a great team back together. we are now structurally balanced. largest tax cuts in the country. credit is strong. we are up to 340,000 jobs. i have a good resume. i have a good friend who used to say don't tell me, show me. we have tried to show people what we have been doing. the only thing i would tell you is it seems like the media tries to figure out who i am. one person just seems to be an innate. the country has a lot of problems. whether you are a republican or democrat, the anxiety is not that much different. what is a republican think, what does a democrat think you go for me it is about what americans think. can they make more money, is there a place for them, can i kid get a college education without mortgaging everything you have? how do i keep my kids off of drugs.had make you my kids off of drugs? what about my neighborhood? these are all things people are concerned about. when i speak to people, no matter where it is or it week, i spoke at the atlantic magazine conference, which was interesting. then i went to something called the new america or it. i thought it was center right, it turned out to be centerleft. everybody has the same concerns. in terms of -- am i willing to put myself in the box? the answer is no. i don't get politics in the traditional way. i think it is about answering people's concerns. if you do that, i think you can be successful. in ohio, and was able to win 86 out of 88 counties. 60% of women, and it was satisfying to do that. i think it was on the basis that the state felt better. there is another element. as i like to say, economic growth is not an and to itself. we have done everything we can to make sure that everybody can feel included, but everybody has a stake. david: i will try not to go too long. you have spoken about helping others, you said no good as ever lost, to give somebody a chance and give them hope, if it is just one person, it will follow you through each energy. given that, what is your take on what the federal government should be doing to ameliorate the conditions that cause the situation in baltimore? gov. kasich: that is a long answer. two days ago, i unveiled the only program i know what in the country involving police and community. i had 20+ people on this task force. i had the former head of the highway patrol, and the second one was an african-american woman who was a former senator who ran for secretary of state. she is a fixture on msnbc. i didn't even know she was a vice chairman of the democratic party in ohio. she and john, along with african-american ministers along with police representation, business people, political figures all sat down and came up with a consensus. the two immediate things we are doing is creating a statewide standard on use of deadly force. and secondly, spelled out efforts on recruitment and hiring of minorities. we are going to move into a phase where we will have a collaborative -- a community collaborative to develop additional standards whether that involves data collection, transparency that should be available to people whether there is an incident, the ability to move police and community together and have an integrated. we have learned a lot as we studied what they did in watts and in cincinnati, where there were serious problems. we have meat on the bones. i will start traveling through the state to some of the areas that we think are important. we await a very important decision in cleveland that should be coming up with of the next week. i extremely aware of it. that was timely. we set this thing up months ago and now we have to be in the community so that the community knows, and that the law enforcement community knows that we are deadly serious about improving these relationships. but, i have been very involved in a lot of other activities that are related -- i will get carried away here, but the issues of poverty. this includes criminal justice reform involved in the community in terms of fixing cleveland schools, which was vital to the african-american community, actually endorsed the levy up there. we are seeing dramatic improvements in cleveland. i am proud of what we are seeing happening. we have created a mentoring program, which i think could be at the nub of our problem. i have african-american women in my cabinet. i believe that mentoring person-to-person, in the schools, encouraging, lobbying showing people a different way of life, what can be achieved is really critical. they have told me that. in cincinnati, there's a thing called the cincinnati collaborative. the graduation rate in cincinnati is about 63% in this high school made up fundamentally of minorities. i believe that program is critical. as you all know, i expanded medicaid to bring dollars home, so we can begin to deal with some of our most vexing problems. we are involved in corrections reform. we have a low recidivism rate -- what he 7% compared -- 27% compared to about 50%. we are involved big time in terms of workforce training making sure that people get trained for jobs that exist. we are performing our entire welfare program. when you go to a welfare office, you have somebody to coordinate your care, just like we see in health care. so that a person can get the help they need, the training that they need and that they are held personally responsible for what they do. it has been a whole series of things that have allowed me to be in the communities. for the first time, we are going to meet set-aside provisions. we will do better than 50% -- 15%. we have a highway program from downtown cleveland to the cleveland clinic. we were able to set aside state dollars to provide 20% of that two minority contractors. also we are in the community providing assistance to help people build small businesses. i have made it clear that will be billed as highway, we are not going to shut people off. there is a tendency to isolate people if you are not sensitive to what neighborhood and community concerns are. i have told my cabinet and everybody else, we need to build entrepreneurial ship in minority communities. when you to stress it to our children, regardless of race. i want to make sure that everybody has the sense that they can get somewhere, that they can be lifted, that their share in the american dream. i have to tell you, we are involved aggressively in fighting infant mortality in poor areas. we are running strong anti-drug programs. it is not one thing you can do. when you do a variety of things and this is a teamwork effort when you do those things, you begin to develop credibility and connections. there is a lot more to go. david: thank you on that. obvious is something you care about deeply. >> when what you make your candidacy official? gov. kasich: first of all, i'm starting to determine whether we will have the resources to win. if i do not have the resources and i don't see a path to victory, i am not going to do that. i love being governor. we are, at this point, optimistic that we will have the resources to move forward. but it is it to be determined. in terms -- let me ask you a question. will it be hard for me to distinguish myself from a group of politicians? i'm very free in my life, and i'm going to do my best to talk to people about the things i care about. in new hampshire, i told people who i am. i told them what i was concerned about. what i am concerned about is the drift of our country. there are two kinds of relationships that need to be healed. one are the relationships with our allies, europe, central europe, middle east. i think those relationships have eroded over time. not just with obama, over time. we don't have the deep relationships we need to be unified and sent strong messages to people. the second area that needs to be healed, which may be harder, is to heal the relationship between republicans and democrats on capitol hill for it we have in him and billet -- we have an inability to have things work. a senator told me that i wouldn't believe how polarized everybody is. i have a taste in ohio, we work to try to fix that. america's inability to solve problems makes us weaker, it hurts our kids, our families. it also sends a message to people around the world that america is losing its strength and that is not helpful to our allies or enemies. i'm going to talk about the things i am concerned about. if it works, great. if it doesn't, i may still realize my dream of being on the pga tour. i have been around this -- my first election in 1978. iran against -- i ran against an incumbent. the guy iran against was a democratic senator and he had a dam named after the family name. people thought a croatian was something that climbed out of the ocean. [laughter] i ended up winning that election and one of the most shocking upsets in modern ohio history. that is what i do. i am a retail guy, i am going to work hard and communicate the best that i can. i was the only republican to defeat an incumbent democrat in 1982. i won reelection. i beat an incumbent for the first time in 40 years in ohio. what is interesting is that i won cuyahoga county. either i got it or i don't. i'm optimistic. i have had good receptions in detroit, south carolina, new hampshire. i'm going to do the best i can. without the resources, you cannot do it. you don't have any resources, go away. >> i want to ask you a multipart question. it has to do with foreign policy and how your middle east foreign policy would look different than president obama's. in discussing what your policy would look like, can you tell us where you are on obama's emerging deal with iran? and your position on a bill pending in the senate that would give congress the ability to weigh in, but also without a vote of disapproval would -- gov. kasich: two interesting stories in the paper today. i read both of them today. you read the editorial pages and you begin to understand -- well, let me not say. two stories are very interesting. there was a guy driving a $75,000 m bertini in iran, and he got into an accident and killed himself and the woman in the car with him. i don't understand exactly what is happening with social media in iran, but what is emerging is this bitterness toward those who have and those who don't have. those who have these special freedoms and those that don't which speaks to me about the potential of unrest over time and regime change. you lift sanctions and make everything hunky-dory, and you will have the ayatollah for a long time. i don't think it is likely the ayatollah will go, but it is far more likely with economic pressure. secondly, the fact that we are negotiating with countries that just seized a danish ship, and we are going to put our naval presence in the gulf, because we are worried about what our friends might do. i think that was the quote in the paper today. if somebody is throwing bricks through my window and i'm afraid of what they might do, i don't know how to make a deal with them based on trust. i am concerned about a lot of things around this deal. one is the proliferation of weapons and material. this material is dangerous in the hands of people like hamas has the left, and god knows what group is going to pop up next. a dirty bomb is a different thing than a nuclear weapon. but a dirty bomb is a terrible thing if exploded in new york, for that matter, god for bid. i don't even know that the united states and iranians agree on what the agreement is. the ayatollah says they are going to lift sanctions, we say that that isn't true. the first thing you have to do is make sure you are in agreement of what the agreement says. what i am worried about is something that i got experience being in congress. do not fall in love with your proposal or idea. i look at things simply. you go to the car dealership and you are so hungry to get a car, you will pay anything. a very silly way to do anything. that is just a minor thing, but if you fall in love with an agreement on this whole nuclear weapons issue with iran, no matter what you do, you keep responding to the ayatollah's position. when the ayatollah said that sanctions have to be lifted immediately, and i saw the president say something about maybe we can work on this. that signals falling in love with the deal. i think that the economic pressure ought to be kept on that country. because of our deteriorating relations with our allies, can we? this is very serious. we tried to trust north korea and now we are worried that they have a nuclear arsenal. asian countries are talking about building nuclear weapons. if everybody has a nuclear weapon, there's a possibility of use. do i think the senate should have say? absolutely. in reading, i saw that bob corker worked something out. it ought to be treated has a treaty. in terms of national security policy -- and israel is our great ally in we need to support them -- they live in an extremely dangerous environment. we also have allies over there with whom we have shared values. the jordanians, for example. the problem with the saudi's is at the administration's have been too soft on them. women cannot drive or leave the country, and that is just the little things. think about the funding of some of these organizations that are intent on destroying us, israel, and then. we have been too easy on them. the egyptians, you know, they have been an ally. i'm glad to see the president has resumed military aid to egypt. in terms of national security, i am surprised that we have not been able to gather tougher sanctions against vladimir putin. we just have not had the tough talk or action that we need. in terms of how we conduct foreign policy, it is our vital interest. i am not a person that thinks we ought to be involved in this nation building. i am not a believer in nationbuilding. i think we should have a lee terry that is mobile and -- a military that is lethal and can come home. i think we should support common interest with groups that may or may not be allies. i think we missed a great opportunity in syria to be able to build support for those who were supposed -- who were opposed to assad. you see all of these things and yet we miss that window. i am extremely concerned about turkey. one of the things we have to ask ourselves is, did europe make a mistake by telling turkey that they haven't done well enough to be included? this is a big, important country. we need to have good relations there. we have got to be strong. the other thing i would tell you is, you know, when we are weak economically, people own our debt, it limits our ability to conduct as robust a foreign policy. that is why i support the balanced budget amendment. we have this deal in congress, and it is the same deal. i'm going to have the chocolate cake today, but i will go on a diet like, next year. it is typical. this debt is a serious problem for our country. our inability to address it is a terrible mistake. >> it was reported that you are accused of hiding the height jesus because you expanded medicaid. what is your response on that? what is the sale that you make to republican primary voters and donors? gov. kasich: i'm really not hiding behind anybody. i am here at this lunch, so i don't have anybody protecting me. let's get to the nub of medicaid. first of all, the last republican i can think of who expanded medicaid was ronald reagan. people tend to forget that. if other people don't want to take the money, that is up to them. i have money i can bring to a higher. it is my money. there is a money in washington. it is the money of the people who live in my state. what do we do with the money? we have 10,000 people sitting in prisons who are mentally ill. we have more people sitting in prisons in america then we have psychiatric hospitals. to me, that is immoral. that is a failure on our part. we deem institutional life the mentally ill and promised to take care of them, and we have not done it. my goal is to treat them. to get them on their feet and in a position where they can work. many people with mental illnesses can, if given medication and properly handled. in our communities, we have the ability to treat mentally ill. you know there are things that can happen with the mentally l with they get themselves in deep trouble and not even know what they are doing. i do not want to put them in prison, come out, make another mistake, and up back in prison. it's not the place for them to be. most people in prisons are people who have committed other crimes, but they have substance problems, addiction problems. what we are doing our we are in the prisons giving them rehabilitation, and then we will release them into the community within a community advocate, not a drug dealer. the revolving door is, you go in, you come out, you go in, you come out. that is not working. our recidivism rate in treating addictions, if we are aggressive in getting them into the community, we think the recidivism rate would be 10%. the working poor, without health insurance, and up in emergency rooms. they end up sicker and more costly. i think it makes more sense to get them care so they can get the preventive care they need, and then remove barriers for them to climb up and have better work. they are the working poor. all of these programs, i want to quote my mother. she is to say, johnny, it is a sin to help people who need to learn how to help them selves. we are in the process of reforming this welfare system. this is not just giving somebody something and that is the end of it. we are asking for personal responsibility for those folks some of them it takes a while to get to the baseline. addiction is tough to i. you see hair when deaths -- hero in deaths. this is in a norm is problem. -- this is an enormous problem. we are beginning to see a trend to emergency room visits by the poor at the same rate as everybody else, which means that this is beginning to work. it also means that we have to have a robust job-creating economy, and my goal is to get those people off. in terms of the spiritual side, people don't have to think the way i do. i don't care if they are humanist or a believer and some faith. my feeling about it is, all people are made in the image of god. everybody deserves respect. i was here last friday, a guy raised his hand. he said, all these people, getting benefits, blah blah bla h. i said, let's stop and think for a second. you have got a young boy, he grows up in an environment or he hears gunshots, he doesn't want to leave his house. we had a case in cincinnati where a neighborhood was so dangerous that kids and did not want to leave. when he gets to school, he needs somebody on drugs. -- he meets somebody on drugs. he doesn't know who his family is. he has no role models. do we take that person and do we say, they are not worth paying attention to? do we take that person and say god knows that we can get them on their feet, who knows what the potential is? maybe they will cure cancer. there is no loss of human beings. in our prisons, if we have bad people, we will lock them up forever. but if you want to work your way out, and be a productive member of society, you can. and so, i think everybody is concerned about this. whenever and for reelection as governor, this is what i talked to republicans about. i didn't talk about obama or hillary, i talked about what we have done, what we do for people in the shadows, and guess what? there are a lot of people in this country who have family or friends who has depression. we know a lot of people in this country -- too many people -- whose son died from a heroin overdose. they are every mother and father's concern. the spiritual side for me, i feel an obligation to do what i can to help. giving them something is not all there is, it is to get them out of the situation so they can rise. i was involved in welfare reform. very involved with it. programs worked, but it needs improved. you realize that if you are the father, you cannot be in the family. what a system. if you are working mom, and you get a bonus or something, you lose your childcare. who the heck is going to take a bonus and improve themselves if they lose a bigger benefit them again? these are simple things. that is why programs should be sent back to the states. they are not simple answers to these problems. david: i will go out of the announced order. >> huge elements of your party and your caucus, the compromises an absolute no-no what is your prescription? gov. kasich: you talk to people one at a time. you go back and ask people, or talk to democrats about how iran the budget committee, i have a lot of friends who are democrats who i worked with. the republicans would say we're going to do a budget markup, and i said we are not going to shut anybody up. i said, i want you to tell me what the democrats will wind rate because my brother taught me about pressure cookers. the leaders have to be able to explain to people that you don't have to compromise your principles to be, a compromiser. when we can't fix social security, immigration, infrastructure, where does that leave us? we cannot balance a budget. we all know these corporate tax rates are too high. who pays? i have two 15-year-old daughters. they pay. the families and communities and state pays. they pay for failure. i am an optimist in the way in which people can see a better way. i think it is going to take a lot of work. it would be easier to fix our relationships with foreign leaders that it is to fix our relationships between republicans and democrats, but they are vital. in my state, i am not going to get democratic votes on the budget, but we just passed a bill on lake yury -- lake lake yury. we passed and infrastructure bill unanimously. we passed human trafficking legislation before they got to it here -- unanimous. there are things you can do together -- the cleveland school reform, really tough stuff. virtually unanimous. just because somebody thinks and different than you, i was involved in a government shutdown. but you do not poison the well. and sorry, but we can't wait an agreement here. we have to walk away from the table, which is exactly what we should do in regard to aegon. but you have to get answers. i tell ya, i have a lot of regard for jim jordan. he is a good man, he gets it. he will give when he sees a good argument. i don't give up on this. leaders have to be involved with both parties. it is frustrating. i'm frustrated with things right now in my state, but you don't knock the chess pieces half the chess board. you don't give up. this is america. >> a lot of republicans say, as you look at the potential governors, they are from important midwestern states. i'm wondering why the ohio story is better? what have you done in ohio that makes them are qualified? gov. kasich: you cannot be president if you don't win ohio. that is not even a question. they are all fine men. they have done a good job. what i am concerned about is what happens in ohio. what's happening in ohio is the economic growth, the inclusion. they got almost 64% of the vote and that is a reflection of the gains we have made. i like snyder and walker. we are all in the republican governors association. they are all good people. so nice bait, but i ain't t aking it. why do you research? and we will get back to you on that. some people say, is he conservative enough? i was an architect of balancing the federal budget. i was involved in welfare reform. i come into the state, i ran a surplus rid we have the largest tax cuts in america, with more to come. and we are helping small business. i mean, you know, i really wish i could take credit for all of it and i got these really smart people and they do a good job and that is how it works. >> think you for coming. gov. kasich: i would love to give you short answers, but the problem with these things is that they're not simple. >> you talked to cnn and they asked you if you would attend a gay wedding, and you said you wouldn't. and yet, you remain somebody who believes that government should define marriage as between a man and woman. why is it that you think that couples who you know personally should be allowed to get married, but people who don't, should not? gov. kasich: ohio passed a constitutional amendment to say marriage is between a man and woman and anything that approximates that. it has changed. if my friend advised me to a wedding, my biggest question is going to be, what time is it? it is a time to celebrate. >> do you believe it should be between a man and a woman? gov. kasich: i do, yeah. >> so why should it be different for people that you know personally? gov. kasich: i am for marriage defined as between a man and a woman. if the supreme court changes that, those changes have to be respected. i have a number of friends who are gay ok? and i like them. they know how i feel about this and they are fine. they want me to go, and i care about them, and i will go. you know? i usually don't go to weddings of people that i do not know. i don't go to that. but if somebody that i like is getting married in a traditional sense or the nontraditional sense, i am not hung up about celebrating with them. we can beat in this horse, but my position has been clear forever. >> hillary clinton recently came out for equipping police officers with body cameras. do you support this? gov. kasich: we have a comprehensive set of recommendations and initial meat on the bones of many recommendations to come. that will probably be considered. we've also have the supreme court look at the grand jury process. i will get to you -- and i know you are interested -- i will get to you the details of what we have already done, and i'm glad we have done it. it is comprehensive. training and transparency are issues. having law enforcement in the community and the community embracing law enforcement, all of these things are a vital part. there is no one thing i can be done to fix it. on the issue of body cameras had a guy in ohio with the body camera and he was in iraq veteran. he had a close confrontation with somebody and he did a fantastic job. we hold him up as a hero for what he was able to do. he had a camera on. i would go to my experts and say, is is going to make a difference? >> there has been a debate for a while within the party on immigration policy. governor walker said that the country should consider having fewer immigrants invoiced concern about immigration lowering wages. governor bush said that it was zero-some thinking. i would like to draw you into that fight. what do you think about it? gov. kasich: we have 12 million people here. the border has not been protected. it needs to be protected. if you can't control who comes in and out of your home, you got chaos. the same is true for a country. border protection is something that absolutely should be done as -- it should be first, but there are things that we can unite both parties around i would hope. what i have said is, i would like to know who they are, i would like to know, do they have a sponsor? did have a criminal -- are they engaged in criminal activity they should be deported. on the path to citizenship or legalization, i think they could be sort of one in the same. here is what i would say. i take nothing on the table when it comes to negotiations like this. i would prefer not to have a path for citizenship, but for legalization which is different, i think. the reason why i would not her for a path to citizenship is, i try to tell my daughters, you know, you don't ditch the line to get taylor swift tickets. you stand in line, and if he didn't get there at the right time, you don't get them. i don't like when people ditch the line. that is part of the problem with those who came in a legally. at the same time, my view is you have to sit out and negotiate this. and i am open to where we would go on this, preferring not to go to citizenship, but i wouldn't take anything off the table. and we have to deal with this issue. look, if you are going to worry about who shouts the loudest on anything, you don't make any progress. you know? i had 20% approval on my first year, and you have to work to do that poorly. so, you know, do your job. this idea that a have to do a focus group to figure out how i feel, there could be questions asked to me that i have not thought about enough. that wedge question, like will you go to a gay wedding, or all of this kind of stuff. i haven't thought about them. they are kind of wedge issues. most of the time, i kind of -- kind of know what i think. i know how i feel about something. and you can't run around trying to please everybody. you gotta just be a leader. that is the way i have run my life. it has worked out pretty well. i will try to be shorter. david: we will have one more question, and then we will get you out on time. >> the trade bill before congress right now has divided republicans from the ohio delegation. what do you think of it and could you comment on any liability for senator portman in his reelection and backing? gov. kasich: look, i am not in congress now i don't have access to all of the detail. i have expressed my concern about what happens as a relates to the workers. we've got, for example steel making investments in ohio, and the next thing i know, they claim they are being dumped on by the koreans. the images search and doesn't act fast. why? probably politics. i supported nafta. i am pleased to see people raising serious questions about what we do for those who are displaced. i am concerned about the government being so above everything that when they see a trade fire laois in, they don't do anything about it. i think we have a long way to go on this bill. i fundamentally am for open, but i am not for america doing things that destroys our manufacturing industries. i know this bill involves some of these intellectual property rights. i know we had an amendment on currency manipulation. maybe he will offer that again. that would probably be a positive step. let's see how it comes out. my concern is, trade is good but at the end of the day, it needs to be fair and a level playing field. i have to see what it is at the end. they are on's asking me, what would you do on this bill? i say why don't we let it get to my desk first. david: last last question. gov. kasich: then two more. [laughter] go ahead. >> revisions to the tax code and where are you on carried interest? gov. kasich: revisions on the tax code. i'm in conversations with steve forbes about this tax. i want to look at the distribution table. the beauty of his plan is this. the beauty of his plan is number one, you can have the plan i am suggesting, which is a flat, or you can take the traditional tax. i have asked him about the distribution tables, he has said they are good. i have been a little bit concerned about the issue of dynamic scoring and i have talked to him about it. he says that if we open the floodgates, we will have significant growth. pretty good answer to me. we don't have all the details but i am fascinated. it is simpler and flatter. if you don't like it, you can keep the current system. i don't think now is the time to change it carried interest. i think we need this investment. our venture capital folks out there particularly on the west coast with google and paypal and you tube, these are important things that i don't want to do anything that is going to hinder investment. i understand the concern about it, maybe there is a way to kind of soften it a little bit, but at this point, i wouldn't change it. i think the corporate tax rate is too high. i asked the ministration to bring the money back. they said, the money michael to shareholders. i said, that would be a horrible thought. at the end the day, we need to get the money here so they can invest here and not europe. >> a follow-up on tax questions. can i follow up -- you have proposed cutting income taxes in your state. you talked eloquently earlier about the poorest in society. how do get around the argument that this is a tax on the poor? gov. kasich: first of all, we have significant tax relief for those of the bottom, to. sort of like reagan did. we have created the first earned income tax credit in ohio history, which was praised by the groups concerned about the things i talked about earlier. we are significantly increasing the personal exemption. here is what i am trying to do. in states, i believe it is a lot better to be reducing the tax on risk taking and incentives for investment. and i think giving people the ability to choose consumption over income will lead us to a faster growing ohio. this is all tax reform. the recently cannot get it through is special interest groups. they are powerful interest groups, fundamentally business interest groups who want to protect their own tax system. i understand that. in the greater good for ohio the more that we can bring down that tax is when we look around the country, we see the fastest growing states a do not tax income, whether it is texas or florida. you look of things in new hampshire, you have all of these people moving from one state to another to avoid taxation. i mean, look at the growth in nevada for people leaving california. i believe that incentivizing investment and risk-taking is preferable, but it is hard. we have made progress on this, by the way. when i announced my taxcutting plan, i announced that the community action agency, which is the one that is right there in the trenches with those who are poor. and, you know, i said, look. we have to get people jobs. the biggest cure for pop he is a job. -- the biggest cure for poverty is a job. thank you. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] announcer: here are a few of the festivals we will be covering this spring. in may, we visit maryland for the gaithersburg festival. we close may at book expo america in new york city, with industry showcases upcoming books. in june, we are live for the chicago tribune renters wrote literature fast. -- literature fest. that is the spring on c-span2. announcer: remarkable partnerships iconic women. their stories in "first ladies: the book." >> what francis was doing, what she looks like who she was seeing, that was going to help sell papers. >> she starts running a radio station. how do you do that? and she did it. >> she exerted influence because she would move amounted to make sure that her husband was protected. announcer: "first ladies," looking inside the personal life of every first lady in american history. learn about their lives ambitions, families, and unique partnerships with their spouses. filled with lively stories of fascinating women who survived the scrutiny of the white house, sometimes at a personal cost often changing history. "first ladies" is an inspiring read, now available through your favorite bookstore or online bookseller. announcer: next, a conversation with jeb bush. he recently sat down with rich lowry to talk about protests in baltimore, immigration, and foreign-policy issues. this is part of a summit hosted by the "national review." rich: hi, everyone. yeah. that was fun. we are ready for the next portion of our program. our next guest needs introduction. it is two terms as florida governor, he was the most successful reform governor in america, and we are pleased to have with us today former governor jeb bush. jeb bush: thank you. [applause] rich: we have some journalists here with the news hole to fill. i am trying to think the question of sufficient gravity to drive the news cycle of the next two or three hours. this what i came up with your has. if elected, we you consider having "w" do your official portrait? jeb bush: heck no. i think his early work was a little too primitive, i would like to wait for his postmodern era for he paints me. he is ask a gotten a little better. he stood with dogs, now he does landscapes and gives paintings to people who are his friends because they know they will have value. rich: let's talk about the news this week, the situation in baltimore. it has become less a debate over specifically what might have happened and the death of freddie gray, less about the handling of the riots, and more the bigger question of who or what is responsible for the state of baltimore and what we can do about it. what is your take about that big question, who or what has failed baltimore? jeb bush: it's important to reflect on the fact that this young man died, and that is a tragedy for the family. this is not justice at his day this is a person who died. there were a lot of people who lost their lives because of this. when you do be respectful of private property. allowing the riots to happen was disturbing. you can't just push that over and go to the grand societal problems. i think that public safety is the first try ready for any city or government jurisdiction. in this case, a lot of people will suffer because of what happened. hopefully, order will be restored. i think it sends the wrong signal to not have a baseball game with people in it. i think we need to recognize that life doesn't just get paralyzed when tragedies occur. you cannot allow that to happen because it might create more of them. now that i have that out of the way, i think that the tendency on the left is to blame -- to create a set of reasons why this happens. the president's view on this i thought he started pretty well by talking about -- there was a sentence in his response about the decline of families in urban core america, and i think that is absolutely true. there is much broader issues that go along with this. the path ologies that are being built, the people that are stuck in poverty. you are more likely to stay poor. i believe conservatives have a better approach. his approach is to say that conservatives have an offered enough money to get me to be on to create programs to let people be successful. at what point do we go past $10 trillion? you have to conclude that the top-down driven programs have failed. i think we need to be engaged in this debate and say that there is a bottom-up approach. it starts at building capacity so that people can achieve success. having higher expectations and higher accountability and it genetically different kinds of schools. -- dramatically different kinds of schools. here is the big challenge for people born in poverty. if you are born poor today, when you reach 18, it is possible you will never have a job in your life. that is the world we are moving toward. dramatic disruptive technology is putting the first wrong on the latter higher and higher. if we'll get this right, america will be radically different than what created its greatness. the ability for people to rise up will be challenged in we speak cannot imagine. you know, having this conversation in the broader sense of, it is probably not appropriate completely today. i hope conservatives do not feel compelled to pull back. we do not need to be defensive. it is the failed progressive policies that we need to address , and we need to offer alternatives. rich: let me circle back on the writing specifically. -- the rioting specifically. jeb bush: i agree that the broken window policy has been successful. you don't have to take it to the extreme of having police brutality, but there has to be a certainty of punishment to create order and security. who gets hurt? it is the shop owner, it is the person who may lose their job they cannot reopen. it is the nursing home, it is the church. this is the community that creates the vibrancy to allow for these communities to be successful are always hurt the most in these events. i think the mayor's record when giuliani was mayor of new york creating strategies with the police was the right one. rich: the president mention absent fathers, huge part of the puzzle. is there any policy for anything public officials can do to help turn back what has been a rising tide of family breakdown across the decades? jeb bush: absolutely. it's not -- my views on this were shaped by a book. i didn't quite get to the last chapter with the solutions, but i think we need to have solutions. i think there are things we can do as a relates to our wealth transfer payment system, the welfare system, where the highest arsenal tax rate for people would be somebody trying to get out of poverty. when they start earning enough income, they could in some states lose more benefits than they gain in income. have to change this and reward work then non-work. cap have a system -- and this is something that your colleagues are focused on. this is a place where these approaches make sense. how do you create a system of support that does not create dependency? that has to be where the federal government plays a role. i think it is pretty clear that the way to break out of poverty -- there is a higher pop -- there is a higher probability of breaking out of poverty if you have two parents in the home that love their child, and if the child gets a better education, if you do those two things, you are likely to break out of poverty. let's encourage those two things to happen more often. i don't want to oversimplify this, but stronger family life and a different education system. the baltimore education system is not a role model that anybody travels to to see how they are educating low income kids. if you want to see that, go to florida, go to miami-dade county. gays have occurred because we have high expectations, high standards, accountability -- gains have occurred because we have high expectations, high standards, and accountability. school choice, public and private, may ultimately get to a system where time is the variable and learning is the constant. rich: what does that mean? [applause] i just have the current to ask it. jeb bush: darn, i thought -- i have been using a line for so long and now it makes no sense. it's at of having your kid's butt in a seat, if you don't master the material, you do not go on. if you master the material, you are not held back if he have the capability of learning and you were not perched along if you have not mastered it. a customized learning experience for every child, that is what we need to be doing. look, to suggest that we use a agriculture calendar and an industrial model where the collective bargaining interest of the adults and benefit both sides of the effort, and there is no accountability or rewards for improving learning, all of that stuff. expecting a different result will not work. the model i and suggesting is possible because of the ability to bring high-quality, rich digital content into the classroom. every aspect of our life has been customized. one of the most important thing that we do? which is to ensure that children have the capacity to succeed. rich: i should mention to participants in the summit, that should the cards on your table for you to write questions for governor bush. in a very 20th century delivery. the senate is engaged in debate over iran policy, and the consensus is this corker bill. there is criticism of it from the right which says it is too weak, because what it has done is say you need 67 votes to disapprove of an iran deal whereas, traditionally, when the senate is giving a treaty, you need 67 to approve. this would reverse the process. and it should be tough and up with a minutes. what is your take? jeb bush: i think that the amendment process is helpful so that americans are knowledgeable about the treaty. the broader question is, this is not in a national security interest of our country. this is democracy at work. the outcome is no congressional engagement at all, which is worse than having some engagement. republicans need to be on record opposing whatever happens, if there is to be an agreement. it sets the stage for what the next president can do as it relates to changing whatever the outcome is. the reason why this is a bad deal is, you know, iran has not recognized israel's right to be a jewish state. iran has destabilized the region . iran has missile capability to take weaponry far into the region. iran is building a defense weapons capability that is apparently as good as the russian's. and we are going to give up the leverage that we have if they have a defense system. the result of this is proliferation, and embolden iran and you are likely to have our strongest ally in the region be threatened. i can this is a horrific deal. i can't conjecture on what happens, but as negotiations unfold, we are pulling back, making more and more concessions, and iran is not making any. perhaps it will not be an agreement at all, because they do not need one. if you think about it, they can get lost everything they want without it. rich: would you recommend attending to amend the bill to make it a requirement that iran recognize israel? jeb bush: i don't know if that kills the bill. no ledges that oversight, no congressional work. there are some benefits because it would have to be done by executive order, but the united nations would overturn the sanctions, and the levers that we have would go away. this is not an easy question. we should be negotiating at all. we should not have started unless we were sincere about maintaining the objectives from when the president started. rich: if you are president and a deal is in place and it has gotten some loose form of approval, would you pull out of that deal? jeb bush: if it is in the security interest of the united states, absolutely. the other hypothetical might be that this is done by executive order. as we know, the president is proud of using authority he sometimes does and doesn't have. all of that can be undone by the next president. rich: every few weeks, there is some horrific story from the broader middle east or north africa having to do with the massacre of christians or the ethnic cleansing of christians. is the government doing enough in this area? jeb bush: i think it is shameful that the unit states is not speaking loudly and acting forcefully on behalf of christians and jews. in the case of the middle east, principally christians, i think we have a duty, we are the only country that has the resources to provide support. i have a personal interest in this. we all, as christians, need to act on our conscious as a relates to this. my daughter-in-law is of iraqi origin. her parents moved from iraq to toronto. i watched the efforts of isis to take up the christian communities in iraq. deeply disturbing. because of his personal interest as well is my faith. the united states government should be clear that we need to be supportive. i always thought we had the capability of providing support for the 200 christian girls never kidnapped by boko haram in nigeria. i don't know why we wouldn't be aggressive and forceful and cooperating with these countries to act on our conscious on behalf of people that their only fault has been that they were in a deep abiding faith in christ. you see these things and it is so horrific, if it doesn't move your heart then not much will. christians are being beheaded and you can see the mouthing the lord's prayer at it takes place. who is going to stand on behalf of these folks across the board? the same applies to, we need to stand tall against anti-semitism in europe and other places. if these things linger, they grow and grow and grow. this is what happens when we disengage. we have a regime -- a government -- [applause] rich: now you are speaking our language, governor. you just fed the news cycle. jeb bush: i was thinking of the regimes there. the girl with the cute, cool glasses in the state department. the press and tortures her with asking these questions, and refuses to actually say what it is. nobody in the obama administration can say what it is, and as result, we don't organize against what it is. jeb bush:rewind that regime thing. rich: let's see if we can get you in more trouble. marco rubio has a tax reform plan, an essential feature of it is a big increase in the child tax care credit, which has a very controversial within the right. do you have any view on that? do you look on it favorably? jeb bush: i have a favorable view, and i think it is necessary to deal with the lax -- the last tax or for me had was in 1986. now we have created we went to simplicity, which helped create economic growth, to now we have the most complex code in the world. a code that is so complex that $2 trillion of u.s. corporate cash is overseas because of worldwide income and bringing it back is an activity so that jobs are created overseas smaller foreign businesses are buying u.s. businesses to relocate them overseas. the next generation of job creators cannot set up the job because of three reasons overregulation, the complex tax code, and obamacare. those of the three things that suppress jobs. the focus ought to be not on targeted elements of the code, but a broader conversation about how we can eliminate as many of these tax expenditures as possible and lower the rates down as possible. that creates economic growth. if you wanted to create a rising middle class wear disposable income is growing, where take-home pay is growing, you got to fix the things that are the burdens on people's aspirations. simple find a code is part of that. i don't know where that puts me. if i go beyond the consideration of running to being an actual candidate, this'll be front and center a really important part of my advocacy. rich: if you become a candidate -- in the past, you have been critical of the tax pledge, is there any circumstance in which you would take the pledge? jeb bush: no. but i cut taxes every year. we cut $19 billion in eight years. every year, we have all sorts of tax cuts. i don't have to be told how important it is, i did it. i think that is the better approach. cutting taxes in a way that creates economic prosperity ends up creating enough revenue to allow it to function and it more money in people's pockets. that is the right approach. i'm not going to change my views on that, and my record is clear. it is as good or better than any. let put it this way. if you serve in the united states senate over the last eight years, there is no tax cut has taken place. this president has raised taxes $1 trillion to fund obamacare and it, just because he could, he created another tax cut. anybody associated with washington d.c. can talk about this stuff the places where taxes have been cut are in places like of florida, where they were led by a conservative governor that all important. the net result, to put it in a broader perspective, during might be years 1.4 new jobs were created. in five of those eight years more than any state. more than texas. rich: it is a principled opposition to plaintiff of that sort. will you promise not to raise taxes? [applause] jeb bush: i think we did to cut taxes in reform code to create economic prosperity. we are talking on the edges of what ails us as a country. what ails us apart from the pessimism that really is kind of freezing in place the spirits that typically allow americans to solve problems. the lack of leadership in washington, for sure. but it is also this growth. we are growing at 2%. this term is called the new normal. the new normal mix me nauseous, because the new normal redefine america in a bad way. 2% we'll be overwhelmed with crumbling infrastructure and the lack of research and development. four% growth what is we should be achieving. so tax reform and regulatory reform embracing our energy this will get you going. reforming our broken immigration and fixing the fiscal structural deficits we have related to our entitlement system is how you get to four% growth. that should be the focus. so scott walker has kicked up a bit of a fuss. >> you're trying to get me in trouble. >> of course i am. he said when it comes to illegal immigration the first thing we should think about is what effect immigration has on american workers and their wages? do you agree or disagree? jeb bush: i don't think it's a zero sum game. if we start thinking that we'll play the game that barack obama plays oh so well. it's the wrong approach. we have 3 to 5 million jobs unfilled that require skills in america today. think of had we fixed our immigration system in the way that i would propose it, how much extra job growth and investment that would provided opportunities for higher wages for people struggling near or at the bottom or people that are squeezed in the middle. this is not a zero sum game. if you want to grow at four% instead of two you need younger, more dynamic people inside of our economy that are productive to get to four% growth. you can't do it by a declining population and can't do it with pathetic productivity growth. you have to have both. immigration is not the end all and be all but an immigration system that fixes the border that creates a more secure america for all sorts of good reasons and then expands the number of economic immigrants and narrows them for coming for family purposes. we have the broadest definition of familiaring petitioning in the world. every country in the world there may be 1 or 2 most have spouse and minor children. we have spouse and minor children anded a adult sibling and adult parents. we've it allowed to continue. we haven't fix san diego and the net result we put quotas on countries to deal with this because there are some countries that half the country would come. the quota was based on the reality this wasn't working the way it should. better to expand based on need what our economy would create. that's how you're going to grow your economy. bring young people who embrace our values and move forward. because here's the deal and again -- i love you and i love the national review -- >> this is going to be good, this wind-up. jeb bush: i think you're wrong on immigration. but if we fix the legal part we could grow our economy far faster and younger and more dynamic. the world that some argue for is the world of declining population and world of japan and europe and decline. i reject that. america does not do that well. we're at our best when we're young aspirational and dynamic. so, maybe i'm stubborn. i'm willing to listen to other views and i hope we have a dialogue about this but i think i'm right. if and we grow economically then we need to get this fixed pretty quick. >> let me push back a little bit. i think the argument that walker would make or at least senator jeff sessions would make it's not an argument that is necessarily zero sum game but basic economic argument having to do with supply and demand. if you increase the supply of low-skilled labor, of course low-skilled wages will go down. jeb bush: who is suggesting that? are you talking about the people who are here already? >> no it would have increased legal immigration. although they taught the game of high skills it's always increasing low skills. jeb bush: i'm not a united states senator, thank god. i live in miami. i'm outside of washington. i've written a book about this. what i was describing was my idea. my idea is to narrow the amount of people coming and expanding. you're not increasing the number overall. we have huge shortages in all sorts of fields. what i'm saying canada stole our immigration plan and made it better. we should resteal canadian plan and make it american. there are more immigrants from canada coming in annually than we have and they're ten times bigger. which system will be the one that works? the one focused on economic growth or focused on family petitioning? >> one last crack at this. i'll describe position on immigration that i think is reasonable and you tell me what's wrong. we secure the border first and secure at the point of employment to an e-verify system and visa system that really works and you pass this and it passes all the -- gets through all the legal challenges it's going to have from the a.c.l. u. and others and when it works then you do some form of amnesty for many illegal immigrants who aren't going anywhere. because now you know there won't be a managegnet. i would reduce total numbers but certainly emphasize higher skills. >> hey we're getting there. the details of at what point do you say the border is secure, i worry about total security which means that we probably had to lose some of our freedom as a country, that bothers me a bit. i kind of like my freedom. i'm the kind of guy that likes does /* municipalities. i think we need to be focused on liberty and freedom but that's the idea. another element of this should be to make it easier to come legally as part of the eliminating the manage net. there should be an option for people to come legally. that should be one of the guiding principals which means we need to have much better enforcement. we got to solve this. here's the political side of this. i'm not sure everybody gets it. by doing nothing you have two things that happen, at least under -- under the age of obama. you have a president that uses this like he's a stradivarius violin. he's playing for some symphony. he uses this as a wedge issue and we always lose. we always lose on the political argument about all this and he always wins or the democrats always win if you think about having family being the driver of legal immigration rather than an economic driver. so delaying this is what he wants. he does want immigration reform. this would shock both of them, they probably agree with this. and i think what we need to do is to say, let's fix this, grow the economy and lift people's spirits, again not exclusively because of immigration, there are a lot of other big challenges we face. but we'll turn people into republicans if we're much more aspirational in our message. our tone has to be more inclusive as well. >> let's try another sticky one. there's a movement among some parents to opt out of common core testing. if a parent came to you said and governor i'm considering doing this what would you tell him-her? jeb bush: if it makes it harder to get into college and graduate i think you need it rethink it. we've had tests long before common core. the idea is that this is common core that you have assessments is really not true and people have been opting out. florida had the most meaningful accountability system in the country. we also have the greatest learning gains in the country. they go together by the way. it's a comprehensive reforms that create the rise of achievement. we were on the nape test, you can't teach for that test. we were 29th out of 31 in 1997 on the fourth grade reading test. ten years later we were six out of 50. florida hispanic kids do two grade levels ahead of their counterparts and equal to 33 states on this test. low income are in the top five. african-american are in the top five in these tests. the reason is that we have meaningful assessments and we have robust accountability and we have school choice that puts pressure on a system that wouldn't otherwise move. eliminating elements of the accountability system would get a bad result. when a third of our kids are 40% at the best or career ready that's where we are. how do you know unless you measure? how do you know unless you test? the idea you're opting out of a test because it's stressful, think about this. i mean, what's the world like? >> this is my college career? >> opting out? >> opting out of tests that were stressful. jeb bush: i'm thinking how we're going to compete in this economy when we have large numbers of parents telling our kids it doesn't matter. in korea they're sending their kids to tutorials from 6 o'clock until 10 o'clock at night to be able to speak koreans and english by fifth grade and doing math that is 3 or 4 grade levels ahead of us. who is going to be the competitor that wins. this works if you're in an affluent family and you nurture your child and you help them along the way, fine. okay. that probably works for you. what about the single mom struggling to be able to provide for their kid where kids generally because they start in poverty well they can't learn. what my brother called the small bigotry of low expectations, that exists in america today and you can't deny it and keeping these lowering expectations and limiting limiting accountability will doom us and i won't take it. >> this is a controversy that has sprung up the last couple of weeks. is a governor or former governor ready to be president of the united states in the area of foreign affairs? jeb bush: well, i mean let me think. ronald reagan? i don't know what else i have to say. you can be prepared from day one from being a governor and governors have to make decision and they have to say no to people and speak in english. it's a novel language. once you leave washington you you might actually hear it a little bit. they can't hide behind the collective skirt and say i passed an amendment about this. they have to lead. they have to make decisions and persuade and convince. they actually have to compromise from time to time. and those skills apply directly to the presidency. and there's enough examples of governors who have been extraordinary leaders in foreign policy starting with ronald reagan. >> is islam a religion of peace? >> it's been hijacked by people who have an ideology who are barbarians. that part which is the part we need to confront is clearly not a religion of peace and i think you're not offending the sensibilities of people who are peaceful in the adherence of their faith when you say what i just said. for example, here's one of the -- you think about all of the foibles of the foreign policy over the last six years, one that may not be on the top five list but should be is egypt. this was secretary clinton's -- i think she was primarily responsible for this. we've just begun to developing a relationship. here's a guy who should be the strongest ally we have because he for the first time that i've seen and i'm sure there are other arab leaders, but he's said it's our responsibility to confront radical islam. and that is what we need to support and should be no uncertainty about this. we should be a strong supporter of leaders like this. because the option is the dismemberment of the modern statements of the middle east and nothing good will happen when that happens. >> we have some questions on cards and this must be one that slipped through from a journalist. dear governor bush we'll never forget your regime. what is it about your mother that men associated with her ten times likely to hold a high office? jeb bush: well, i don't know. i'm actually kind of struggling with this these days because i know there are some people in the press that would love to make this if i go beyond the consideration of this to make it where i'm giving the impression somehow that i want to break the tide between the bush family and the adams family. i guess you could say the same thing about abigail, right? it's different and unusual. i have self awareness to know it's kind of strange. on the other hand, if i go beyond the consideration i'll count on the good wisdom and directness of my mom to help make communicate with people. she's pretty good at that. internally in the family for sure and also externally from time to time. i tell people whenever i start this -- which i've done before i've been tooting my own horn as governor. every time i start i feel this presence of behind my back and it's the looming -- you don't see it back there, right, this looming presence of my mother saying don't brag, it's not about you. i'm almost feeling like she's about ready to do what that woman did in baltimore when she tried to get -- >> i thought w. got that treatment. jeb bush: we all did. i think my mom and the woman who was bringing her child back home have a lot in common which ied a hire her a lot for doing what she did. that was a nice visual symbol of what needs to be restored. >> among current u.s. court justices who is your model justice? jeb bush: wow. i love -- i actually when i was governor i'm not a lawyer but -- [applause]. jeb bush: you got to play one sometimes when you're governor because you're always getting sued. so i learned to appreciate the law a little bit more and i made a lot of appointments to the appellate courts which is important. i started ruling rulings, they were sending me rulings so i could find interesting things and scalia is the most interesting opinion writer. probably informs his views in the most eloquent way. we would be on my list. i actually admire and like the opposite of that would be clarence thomas who is quiet and speaks with great clarity when he opines and there is a consistency there i admire i like and i generally share his views. >> pizza hutter -- peter says he he's coming after you next. are you worried? jeb bush: no, but i hope he gives me a heads up. >> you seem to suggest if the press reports are accurate that law needed to be fixed. what was wrong with it? jeb bush: i supported pence. i think he needed to create clarity this was not an intent or attempt to discriminate against people. it was an effort to provide space for people to account on their religious conscience. we need to get to a place where government is not going to discriminate against people because of their sexual orientation and at the same time make sure that there is ample space for people not to have a religious view but to actually act on their religious views. conscience what is we need to protect. i fear that we are not finding that balance right now. i just -- you listen to the solider solid solaceter general in defense of the government's position, when it was scalia or spheupb asked, does that mean religious institutions or others are discriminating if they don't want to participate and he said that's not what's in front of you today. my interpretation was that may be in front of you tomorrow. that's where we need to focus. i think the country is open and big as this country opt to be able to find common ground on both those front. >> something that has divided the right is federal reserve policy and quantitative easing. and you had others this is a huge risk and not working and debase the currency. where are you on that? >> i don't know. i would have thought based onl people i admired and respected thought we already begun to see some of that impact on the second side this have and hadn't happened. the massive lou quid ity that the federal reserve brought into the market has got to be of concern. here's the problem with it. we're not growing. we're in this weird dichotomy where the fed policy is creating bad behavior in washington. debt service is lower than it was 12 years ago. how can that be? we doubled and 250% rise in the debt but debt is lower. we shortened the maturities 60% of debt comes due in 4.5 years and interest rates in the low end, the low side of the maturities is next to nothing. basically the net result of this they complain washington is not dealing with the structural challenges they face. they are not forcing the conversation they need to have which is how do they fix the things that impede real economic growth. if we were growing at four% a year and open kind of society where our tax code didn't create $2 trillion overseas but the opposite. imagine if it created them coming our way which would happen this country big and dynamic and a huge market and productive and our labor laws are better than most countries we would get sizeable amounts of that investment. that's the better way to get to low interest rates by having demand of money coming in to invest, not created by print money and holding it in banks. i do agree that the risk over the long haul could be the debasing and penalizing savors. i live in florida. the contract -- the modern contract would be you work hard and you save and you buy your cd's and you sell your home up here somewhere and you go live in paradise. that's the american way, american dream. it's worked out pretty well except when your 401(k) went to a 201 (k) and mortgage got did he appreciate because we had a huge access of sub prime loans and were penalized and now you can't live off savings. so the savors are punished because those who are trying to secure capital are limited because of this massive regulation and so this policy is not getting the desired effect and they should pull back. that would be my view. >> have time for a couple more. how do we go about approving the assimilation of immigrants and i would add on to that, would you have any concern if puerto rico would become a state. any concern about assimilating? >> first of all they're american citizens, so this is not a sub of the first question. it's a separate question. >> i got two questions for you. jeb bush: puerto ricans can buy a $79.01 way ticket to orlando and participate fully as american citizens. when they're there they don't. it's been the position of the republican party since the 1970's and it's been a view that puerto rico have the right of self-determination and decide if they want to have -- want to be a state or not. if they do, just as ronald reagan suggested and george h.w. bush and george w. bush and every republican candidate i support that. there's one puerto rican guy in the room. i just think it's a moral question. i don't think you can -- citizens should have the rights and responsibilities of full citizenship. the other issue is one of huge importance because our immigration works when people embrace a set of shared values. it doesn't work when we divide ourselves up into parts where we move towards the european model of multi-culturalism. it's a disaster when it works this way. one of answers is, maybe we should have a conversation about what our shared values is. one of them is learning english for sure. other is being tolerant and having a respect of the bill of rights and understanding the uniqueness of our country where our freedoms are protected. these are a part of what have been shared values. the set may be called into question. part of any significant immigration reform i think would be make it create a deeper requirement that's deeper. let me put it in perspective. to become a citizen you have to become a test. there are 100 questions that you're given and you'll get ten of those -- you'll get asked ten of them. if you get six of them right you're in. native born americans fail at a higher rate than immigrants because immigrants want to be a citizen so they memorize the questions. i think we need to go deeper than that and a deeper understanding what it is to be an american. if we don't we have problems. i think that's a key element of success. how? you make the test tougher. it was made tougher during my brother's administration. i think it should be made tougher again and get back to civic's education in our country in the k-12 system. look anybody do their kids homework? read the social study books that your children and grandchildren read. it's not common core by the way. this crap hola has been going on for a long while. we would have been different if washington had not been or our mutual friend abraham lincoln. there should be a deep understanding of the courage and conviction and integrity of these great men and they should be held up high as examples of what it is to be an american in this extraordinary country. embracing that and making sure that all of us understand its power i think has to be part of any reform on immigration. frankly a more hopeful optimistic america. there's no reason we should be moping around right now. i don't know. i don't think i'm naive to think this. we're on the verge of the greatest time to be alive. we've had greater challenges in our country's history. this is a time of abundance. we fix a few big things, part of which requires us to go back to our history and appreciate its greatness. i'd rather be 21 than 62. with nothing to my name. i'd rather -- as long as i could go back with my beloved nothing to my name. give me a credit card so i could play off one after the other. this is the coolest time to be alive and we need to believe that and then act on it. >> couple real quick ones. is it called the paleo diet? >> i'm tired of talking about because someone will catch me cheating and it will be like a big deal. but it's worked. look at me. i'm skinnier. isn't that what diet are for? it's a simple diet. they call it because you're not eating processed food. that's about the principal of it. it's meat and fish and vegetables and fruit and nuts, lots of nuts. a whole lot of nuts. >> not that you have a lot of time for this, what kind of books do you like to read, what books have had a big impact on you? >> i like the charles murray books which means i'm a total nerd, i guess. he wrote the book about the columbian exposition, the chicago world's fare. i love that guy. i'm reading all his books right now. that's the one i'm reading. i recommend those books they are -- they're non-fiction but written in a fiction kind of way. >> governor, thanks so much jeb bush: i should have said the national review. >> yes. you blew it. jeb bush: thank

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