Texas officials discuss Border Security and unaccompanied immigrant children. On newsmakers, rajiv shah discusses ebola, and u. S. Foreign aid. Newsmakers on cspan. Next, a debate on what to do with undocumented immigrant children known as dreamers. It is the Texas Tribune festival in austin. This is an hour and 10 minutes. Good afternoon. Thank you for being here today. Im manny fernandez. Im the Houston Bureau chief for the new york times. And on behalf of the Texas Tribune, im very happy to welcome everyone to the Fourth AnnualTexas Tribune festival and to our panel today, entitled what to do with the dreamers. Our panelists are george baldor, a dallas businessman who started a website supporting the texas d. R. E. A. M. Act, also known as hb 1403. The website is keephb1403. Com. Veronica escobar [applause] the county judge of el paso county. She become the top elected official in texas this sixth largest county in texass six largest county in 2011. We also have gabby pacheco, Program Director of a National CollegeScholarship Fund for undocumented students called the dream. Us. Last april, she became the first undocumented latina to testify before congress. [applause] we also have with us jerry patterson, the texas land commissioner. Hes a former state senator who helped the Texas Republican Party adopt a more moderate position on immigration in its 2012 official party platform. We also have george rodriguez, the south texas coordinator of the tea party patriots. He cohosts a show on raging elephants. In 2011, he became the first hispanic president of a major Tea Party Group when he headed the san antonio tea party. We also have with us congressman mark vicci, who represents Congressional District 33 in the u. S. House of representatives. The congressman has been an outspoken supporter of comprehensive Immigration Reform. In 2013, he invited an undocumented immigrant from texas, one of the first undocumented students to pursue a Higher Education in texas, right here at ut austin, to be his guest at president obamas state of the union address. Our discussion today will last 60 minutes and well include time for 15 to 20 minutes of questions from the audience. Id like to ask everyone to please silence your phone. In june of 2001, texas became the first state in the country to adopt a law allowing undocumented students to pay instate tuition rates to attend public universities. There have been efforts in the legislature to repeal this law since then, but all of them have failed so far. Conservative activists and lawmakers will try once more this coming legislative session to stop what has become known as the texas dream act. The Texas Republican Partys official 2014 platform calls for repealing the law. Nationally, meanwhile, comprehensive Immigration Reform has stalled in washington, as dreamers and other advocates are pressing congress for an overhaul that would create a formal path to citizenship for young people who came here as children. Dreamers have become an influential political voice, appearing on the cover of Time Magazine and playing a key role in in shaping immigration policy. Gabby, id like to start with you, if i could. Sure. Who are the dreamers, and how many are there in the United States . So there are about 2. 1 million dreamers who came to the United States when they were children. They are usually categorized as people who came to the United States before the age of 16. And we have seen different d. R. E. A. M. Act legislation. So the majority of the students do follow that criteria. These are students that have gone through our Public School systems. These are students that identify with the american culture, that categorize themselves as americans, and seek the opportunity to be able to one day be able to get a green card and hopefully, after five years, apply for citizenship. Congressman, if i could ask you, youve theres a lot of arguments out there for dreamers to get a path, a formal path to citizenship. I know youve made some of the economic arguments. What are some of the economic arguments that you would make . I think some of the biggest economic arguments that one could make is, you know, most of the dreamers are educated here in texas. And they have gone to our Public Schools. Their parents have paid taxes, sales tax and other taxes, and theyre educated here. But, you know, people dont want to give them a path to citizenship so they can even be more productive citizens in our society. And i just and to me, that a doesnt make any sense for us not to want to do everything we can to let that talent come out of the shadows and even make the American Economy stronger. And to me, it just makes sense to give these dreamers chance. And many of these dreamers even want to serve in the military and contribute to our national security. And why not give them that opportunity, when they want to participate like everybody else . George, let me get you to jump in here. What is wrong with hb 1403 in texas . Which in texas allows for tuition. Let me get the skunk on the table and just ask the question. What part of the word illegal do you not understand . The problem weve got is illegal immigration. Here we go. You want to let me talk . The problem that weve got is illegal immigration. And the only way were ever going to stop illegal immigration is to stop having magnets in the United States. This texas dream act is one of those. The other thing weve got to stop is to stop apologizing for being conservative, for being americans. And somehow feeling that we are going to be the orphanage for the rest of the world. We cant do that. The reality is that we need to remove as much of this emotion, because everybody has got a sob story, everybody. There are billions of sob stories in the world about people who want to come to the United States. And thats understandable. We are the greatest country in the world. But at what point do we say we control who comes in and who doesnt, and why we have all sorts of excuses, while we have all sorts of allowances, all sorts of justifications, for anyone, regardless of what age they came to the United States illegally, thats the problem. And what weve got right now, you cannot enter a spurs game without a ticket. You cant enter a ut game without a ticket. Why is that different for entering the United States . Commissioner, can i ask you to jump in . Well, you know are georges views on the extreme end of the Republican Party or is it on the mainstream . You know, if you take all republican voters, i think and the term extreme was lets say far right. Lets dont say extreme. Lets say the right. I think if you take all voters, hes to the right, considerably and to the right. Correction. If you take all voters im confusing myself here. All voters, he is to the right. Primary voters, hes in the middle. All republican voters. But my point, id like to ask george, though, is we talk in these, you know, blackandwhite, they are illegal first of all, theyre illegal but they didnt break any laws when they came here. It is impossible george, can i ask you this, do you have any kids . If you went to rob a bank and carried your sixyearold with you, would they be guilty of bank robbery . What you are trying to do [applause] robbing a bank is still robbing a bank. Its breaking the law. But the child didnt break the law when they well, but the child has got to be taken away, though. Heres an interesting no, no. Lets follow that. Because what you are saying is that because i commit the crime, then for some reason, the child is not responsible . But were talking about thats exactly what im saying. [laughter] what what were talking about but what were talking about here is not that type of a situation. Its that they have come in illegally. They did not. The child did not. They did the child did not. The parents came in illegally. They were brought in as contraband. Youre saying youre saying the children brought in illegally . They are here illegally. What part of that dont you understand . Ill grant you that. Ill grant you that. I grant you that their status is illegally, but those who were brought here when they were below the age of majority by their parents broke no law, so in other words, when i hear this so in other words when i hear this mantra so theyre innocent . Yes, they are. Ok, so they are completely innocent and were gonna leave them alone . I didnt say that, george. Let me finish. They are here illegally. They broke no laws. There is a distinction. We need to carry that out to the logical extension. If they are here illegally, i agree with you on that. They didnt break any laws coming here. What are we going to do about it . The question in all of this patient effect immigration debate is, what are we going to do . And if to prevent any more from coming. We have a situation near el paso where a twoyearold child was sent out, just across the border. Now, how are you going to keep that from happening anymore . You know, you can you answer . What do we do . Do we deport them . I would hey, until you enforce the law as strong as possible, you are always going to have illegal immigration. We are probably very close on that point. You are probably very close on that point. But my question is, the topic is dreamer, what do we do . Do we deport them . I would say yes. Okay. There you have it. I would say yes, because the same argument that mark made a little while ago about how beneficial they are for the United States, the same argument can be made about them going home to their native lands. They can be beneficial to their home lands. Heres the point. I want to carry on that. So you have boldly and i admire you for doing this. You have boldly because im the only one that will speak this way. No. Yeah all the politicians are afraid. You have boldly taken a position. I admire you for doing so. I like people to stand up and have a belief system. You have advocated that we deport the dreamers. What about the other illegals, undocumented here . Until we deport everyone so your position is we deport 12 Million People. Now, do you want to live in a country that has enough police power, in light of what happened at ruby ridge, in light of of the police are bad . Yes, frankly. I want jerry to repeat that. Youre saying that the cops are bad for enforcing the law . Im saying that too many federal cops are bad. Okay. All right. You know what . I have faith in my local law enforcement, in the dps, in the county, in the city. I dont have as much faith in federal law enforcement, because ive seen what they do. Atf is a classic example. Gabby, can i have you jump in and can you talk about your own status and views and thoughts when george was talking about what to do with the dreamers . Currently i have a program called d. A. C. A. Deferred action for childhood arrivals. It allows me to be in the country with a lawful presence for two years. Its renewable. And in december, ill be renewing that. And if i was to be given a chance to get in line, which is another line that we usually hear, i would do it. I would gladly do it. I dont think anybody in the country he doesnt have the the conversation that is unauthorized likes it. We do not like living in fear. We do not like being afraid of calling the police when theres a disturbance, because were afraid theyre going to ask us for our documentation. We also dont like not knowing that the uncertainty of whats going to happen to us tomorrow, not being able to contribute, not being able to in texas alone, in 2010, the unauthorized were providing about 1. 6 billion in taxes. And today, when i was buying my lunch, the guy, nick, i didnt get to say, hey, nick, im undocumented, please do not tax me. Thats just not a reality, right . [laughter] we pay taxes. Were contributing members to the society. [applause] and i think that one of the things thats really simple, if we talk about it, like george was saying, a ticket. Right . But there are people that are standing in the line, that are saying, come in. And our people in businesses and businesses saying lets go. You know, we need more people to work here. And its this is not as simple as somebody having a ticket or not. The reality is that the United States has broken immigration laws. The reality is that there is a magnet and its called businesses and its called politicians who do not want to fix this issue. And i think that for us to just put it so simple when we know this issue is very complex yes, this issue creates a lot of emotions, because were not just talking about a number. Were not talking about 12 Million People, were talking about individual lives, mothers and fathers and workers, individuals like myself who have a degree, who is contributing, wants to do a lot more, but is limited because there is no system. There is no way for me to get a green card. I got d. A. C. A. When i was given an opportunity to get some sort of status. But theres nothing else from that. So i think that for too long, even, i think the argument that george makes is an emotional one. Its not a rational one that opens up for dialogue and opens up to have our elected officials, like ted cruz, who doesnt necessarily bring a solution. You know, deporting 12 Million People is not a solution. Were not going to be able to do it. We dont have the manpower. We dont have the dollars. And frankly, there are a lot of people who are hiring undocumented people that want to be able to have those people have legal status because they know what a good workforce they are. But they cant. Congressman, do you hear a version of georges argument among the republicans in congress, or do you hear Something Different . I mean, there are certainly members of congress i mean, the congressman from iowa, you know, steve, hes a perfect example of someone that probably would line up you hear it in the black community . Heres what i would say about it. Say it. In the black community, is that i think president obama has done an outstanding job in making sure that people come together and understand that this is an important issue, people of all races. As a matter of fact, there was a poll that i saw earlier this year that showed just how high Immigration Reform was as far as being able to get a pass in the Africanamerican Community. It had overwhelming support in the Africanamerican Community. And so i would say that the president has done a good job. And i think that, you know, as more people speak out about the importance of comprehensive Immigration Reform and they see what it does for the economy and they understand that i mean, there are, in a lot of the africanamerican communities, in fort worth that i represent, and all around the state of texas, you know, the kids live and go to school there, you know, at dunbar high school, at ody high school, predominantly africanamerican high school. People are friends with one another. Many people in the Africanamerican Community have lived with neighbors that are undocumented for years now. And so i would say that so i would disagree with you on that. But, yeah, there are members of Congress Absolutely that do take those extreme positions. George, can i interrupt you . Were you saying that the black community would side with the republicans on this issue . Yeah. And you can deny it all you want. Deny it all you want, because i have been informed where black residents have stood up and been very, very angry about the issue of amnesty and open border. I know for a fact that when the city of houston when Harris County was preparing to open a site for undocumented minors in one community, there were black residents that were fit to be tied that called out congresswoman Sheila Jackson lee on it. And that was on youtube. So im not sure why other than youre playing politics, and this is the problem with this whole issue, is youre playing politics rather than well let me say this. I think that there is a lot of education that needs to go on. And again, the president has done a great job of bringing everybody together. But, you know, oftentimes, particularly because texas is a border state, people oftentimes think of this as a hispanic or a latino issue. But guess what . If you go to new york city, the people that are living in new york city that are undocumented, many of them look like me. And some of these kids that have been coming over from central america, from honduras and places like that, many of them are black. Some of them are black. And so, again, once people are educated on the issue and see how this is a global issue, that its not just about one region of the world, and i think that many of the people that have tried to turn this into a racial issue, theyve only centered on mexico and central america, but this is a global issue that is affecting many people around the country. And many of those are black as well. George baldor, how hard is it going to be to convince voters like george that we need to keep the texas d. R. E. A. M. Act, and it does not need to be repealed, at a time when there is this sort of momentum to some of the arguments that george was making, like how do you try to keep the law on the books . Right. Well, i think as a texas businessperson, i think my perspective is maybe a little bit different. Ive had a business for a little bit over 20 years. And so ive had to be pretty pragmatic. You know, ive met over 600 payrolls