Transcripts For CSPAN Immigration And The Dream Act 20141130

Texas officials discuss Border Security and unaccompanied immigrant children. On newsmakers, rajiv shah discusses ebola, and u. S. Foreign aid. Newsmakers on cspan. Next, a debate on what to do with undocumented immigrant children known as dreamers. It is the Texas Tribune festival in austin. This is an hour and 10 minutes. Good afternoon. Thank you for being here today. Im manny fernandez. Im the Houston Bureau chief for the new york times. And on behalf of the Texas Tribune, im very happy to welcome everyone to the Fourth Annual Texas Tribune festival and to our panel today, entitled what to do with the dreamers. Our panelists are george baldor, a dallas businessman who started a website supporting the texas d. R. E. A. M. Act, also known as hb 1403. The website is keephb1403. Com. Veronica escobar [applause] the county judge of el paso county. She become the top elected official in texas this sixth largest county in texass six largest county in 2011. We also have gabby pacheco, Program Director of a National College Scholarship Fund for undocumented students called the dream. Us. Last april, she became the first undocumented latina to testify before congress. [applause] we also have with us jerry patterson, the texas land commissioner. Hes a former state senator who helped the Texas Republican Party adopt a more moderate position on immigration in its 2012 official party platform. We also have george rodriguez, the south texas coordinator of the tea party patriots. He cohosts a show on raging elephants. In 2011, he became the first hispanic president of a major Tea Party Group when he headed the san antonio tea party. We also have with us congressman mark vicci, who represents Congressional District 33 in the u. S. House of representatives. The congressman has been an outspoken supporter of comprehensive Immigration Reform. In 2013, he invited an undocumented immigrant from texas, one of the first undocumented students to pursue a Higher Education in texas, right here at ut austin, to be his guest at president obamas state of the union address. Our discussion today will last 60 minutes and well include time for 15 to 20 minutes of questions from the audience. Id like to ask everyone to please silence your phone. In june of 2001, texas became the first state in the country to adopt a law allowing undocumented students to pay instate tuition rates to attend public universities. There have been efforts in the legislature to repeal this law since then, but all of them have failed so far. Conservative activists and lawmakers will try once more this coming legislative session to stop what has become known as the texas dream act. The Texas Republican Partys official 2014 platform calls for repealing the law. Nationally, meanwhile, comprehensive Immigration Reform has stalled in washington, as dreamers and other advocates are pressing congress for an overhaul that would create a formal path to citizenship for young people who came here as children. Dreamers have become an influential political voice, appearing on the cover of Time Magazine and playing a key role in in shaping immigration policy. Gabby, id like to start with you, if i could. Sure. Who are the dreamers, and how many are there in the United States . So there are about 2. 1 million dreamers who came to the United States when they were children. They are usually categorized as people who came to the United States before the age of 16. And we have seen different d. R. E. A. M. Act legislation. So the majority of the students do follow that criteria. These are students that have gone through our Public School systems. These are students that identify with the american culture, that categorize themselves as americans, and seek the opportunity to be able to one day be able to get a green card and hopefully, after five years, apply for citizenship. Congressman, if i could ask you, youve theres a lot of arguments out there for dreamers to get a path, a formal path to citizenship. I know youve made some of the economic arguments. What are some of the economic arguments that you would make . I think some of the biggest economic arguments that one could make is, you know, most of the dreamers are educated here in texas. And they have gone to our Public Schools. Their parents have paid taxes, sales tax and other taxes, and theyre educated here. But, you know, people dont want to give them a path to citizenship so they can even be more productive citizens in our society. And i just and to me, that a doesnt make any sense for us not to want to do everything we can to let that talent come out of the shadows and even make the American Economy stronger. And to me, it just makes sense to give these dreamers chance. And many of these dreamers even want to serve in the military and contribute to our national security. And why not give them that opportunity, when they want to participate like everybody else . George, let me get you to jump in here. What is wrong with hb 1403 in texas . Which in texas allows for tuition. Let me get the skunk on the table and just ask the question. What part of the word illegal do you not understand . The problem weve got is illegal immigration. Here we go. You want to let me talk . The problem that weve got is illegal immigration. And the only way were ever going to stop illegal immigration is to stop having magnets in the United States. This texas dream act is one of those. The other thing weve got to stop is to stop apologizing for being conservative, for being americans. And somehow feeling that we are going to be the orphanage for the rest of the world. We cant do that. The reality is that we need to remove as much of this emotion, because everybody has got a sob story, everybody. There are billions of sob stories in the world about people who want to come to the United States. And thats understandable. We are the greatest country in the world. But at what point do we say we control who comes in and who doesnt, and why we have all sorts of excuses, while we have all sorts of allowances, all sorts of justifications, for anyone, regardless of what age they came to the United States illegally, thats the problem. And what weve got right now, you cannot enter a spurs game without a ticket. You cant enter a ut game without a ticket. Why is that different for entering the United States . Commissioner, can i ask you to jump in . Well, you know are georges views on the extreme end of the Republican Party or is it on the mainstream . You know, if you take all republican voters, i think and the term extreme was lets say far right. Lets dont say extreme. Lets say the right. I think if you take all voters, hes to the right, considerably and to the right. Correction. If you take all voters im confusing myself here. All voters, he is to the right. Primary voters, hes in the middle. All republican voters. But my point, id like to ask george, though, is we talk in these, you know, blackandwhite, they are illegal first of all, theyre illegal but they didnt break any laws when they came here. It is impossible george, can i ask you this, do you have any kids . If you went to rob a bank and carried your sixyearold with you, would they be guilty of bank robbery . What you are trying to do [applause] robbing a bank is still robbing a bank. Its breaking the law. But the child didnt break the law when they well, but the child has got to be taken away, though. Heres an interesting no, no. Lets follow that. Because what you are saying is that because i commit the crime, then for some reason, the child is not responsible . But were talking about thats exactly what im saying. [laughter] what what were talking about but what were talking about here is not that type of a situation. Its that they have come in illegally. They did not. The child did not. They did the child did not. The parents came in illegally. They were brought in as contraband. Youre saying youre saying the children brought in illegally . They are here illegally. What part of that dont you understand . Ill grant you that. Ill grant you that. I grant you that their status is illegally, but those who were brought here when they were below the age of majority by their parents broke no law, so in other words, when i hear this so in other words when i hear this mantra so theyre innocent . Yes, they are. Ok, so they are completely innocent and were gonna leave them alone . I didnt say that, george. Let me finish. They are here illegally. They broke no laws. There is a distinction. We need to carry that out to the logical extension. If they are here illegally, i agree with you on that. They didnt break any laws coming here. What are we going to do about it . The question in all of this patient effect immigration debate is, what are we going to do . And if to prevent any more from coming. We have a situation near el paso where a twoyearold child was sent out, just across the border. Now, how are you going to keep that from happening anymore . You know, you can you answer . What do we do . Do we deport them . I would hey, until you enforce the law as strong as possible, you are always going to have illegal immigration. We are probably very close on that point. You are probably very close on that point. But my question is, the topic is dreamer, what do we do . Do we deport them . I would say yes. Okay. There you have it. I would say yes, because the same argument that mark made a little while ago about how beneficial they are for the United States, the same argument can be made about them going home to their native lands. They can be beneficial to their home lands. Heres the point. I want to carry on that. So you have boldly and i admire you for doing this. You have boldly because im the only one that will speak this way. No. Yeah all the politicians are afraid. You have boldly taken a position. I admire you for doing so. I like people to stand up and have a belief system. You have advocated that we deport the dreamers. What about the other illegals, undocumented here . Until we deport everyone so your position is we deport 12 Million People. Now, do you want to live in a country that has enough police power, in light of what happened at ruby ridge, in light of of the police are bad . Yes, frankly. I want jerry to repeat that. Youre saying that the cops are bad for enforcing the law . Im saying that too many federal cops are bad. Okay. All right. You know what . I have faith in my local law enforcement, in the dps, in the county, in the city. I dont have as much faith in federal law enforcement, because ive seen what they do. Atf is a classic example. Gabby, can i have you jump in and can you talk about your own status and views and thoughts when george was talking about what to do with the dreamers . Currently i have a program called d. A. C. A. Deferred action for childhood arrivals. It allows me to be in the country with a lawful presence for two years. Its renewable. And in december, ill be renewing that. And if i was to be given a chance to get in line, which is another line that we usually hear, i would do it. I would gladly do it. I dont think anybody in the country he doesnt have the the conversation that is unauthorized likes it. We do not like living in fear. We do not like being afraid of calling the police when theres a disturbance, because were afraid theyre going to ask us for our documentation. We also dont like not knowing that the uncertainty of whats going to happen to us tomorrow, not being able to contribute, not being able to in texas alone, in 2010, the unauthorized were providing about 1. 6 billion in taxes. And today, when i was buying my lunch, the guy, nick, i didnt get to say, hey, nick, im undocumented, please do not tax me. Thats just not a reality, right . [laughter] we pay taxes. Were contributing members to the society. [applause] and i think that one of the things thats really simple, if we talk about it, like george was saying, a ticket. Right . But there are people that are standing in the line, that are saying, come in. And our people in businesses and businesses saying lets go. You know, we need more people to work here. And its this is not as simple as somebody having a ticket or not. The reality is that the United States has broken immigration laws. The reality is that there is a magnet and its called businesses and its called politicians who do not want to fix this issue. And i think that for us to just put it so simple when we know this issue is very complex yes, this issue creates a lot of emotions, because were not just talking about a number. Were not talking about 12 Million People, were talking about individual lives, mothers and fathers and workers, individuals like myself who have a degree, who is contributing, wants to do a lot more, but is limited because there is no system. There is no way for me to get a green card. I got d. A. C. A. When i was given an opportunity to get some sort of status. But theres nothing else from that. So i think that for too long, even, i think the argument that george makes is an emotional one. Its not a rational one that opens up for dialogue and opens up to have our elected officials, like ted cruz, who doesnt necessarily bring a solution. You know, deporting 12 Million People is not a solution. Were not going to be able to do it. We dont have the manpower. We dont have the dollars. And frankly, there are a lot of people who are hiring undocumented people that want to be able to have those people have legal status because they know what a good workforce they are. But they cant. Congressman, do you hear a version of georges argument among the republicans in congress, or do you hear Something Different . I mean, there are certainly members of congress i mean, the congressman from iowa, you know, steve, hes a perfect example of someone that probably would line up you hear it in the black community . Heres what i would say about it. Say it. In the black community, is that i think president obama has done an outstanding job in making sure that people come together and understand that this is an important issue, people of all races. As a matter of fact, there was a poll that i saw earlier this year that showed just how high Immigration Reform was as far as being able to get a pass in the Africanamerican Community. It had overwhelming support in the Africanamerican Community. And so i would say that the president has done a good job. And i think that, you know, as more people speak out about the importance of comprehensive Immigration Reform and they see what it does for the economy and they understand that i mean, there are, in a lot of the africanamerican communities, in fort worth that i represent, and all around the state of texas, you know, the kids live and go to school there, you know, at dunbar high school, at ody high school, predominantly africanamerican high school. People are friends with one another. Many people in the Africanamerican Community have lived with neighbors that are undocumented for years now. And so i would say that so i would disagree with you on that. But, yeah, there are members of Congress Absolutely that do take those extreme positions. George, can i interrupt you . Were you saying that the black community would side with the republicans on this issue . Yeah. And you can deny it all you want. Deny it all you want, because i have been informed where black residents have stood up and been very, very angry about the issue of amnesty and open border. I know for a fact that when the city of houston when Harris County was preparing to open a site for undocumented minors in one community, there were black residents that were fit to be tied that called out congresswoman Sheila Jackson lee on it. And that was on youtube. So im not sure why other than youre playing politics, and this is the problem with this whole issue, is youre playing politics rather than well let me say this. I think that there is a lot of education that needs to go on. And again, the president has done a great job of bringing everybody together. But, you know, oftentimes, particularly because texas is a border state, people oftentimes think of this as a hispanic or a latino issue. But guess what . If you go to new york city, the people that are living in new york city that are undocumented, many of them look like me. And some of these kids that have been coming over from central america, from honduras and places like that, many of them are black. Some of them are black. And so, again, once people are educated on the issue and see how this is a global issue, that its not just about one region of the world, and i think that many of the people that have tried to turn this into a racial issue, theyve only centered on mexico and central america, but this is a global issue that is affecting many people around the country. And many of those are black as well. George baldor, how hard is it going to be to convince voters like george that we need to keep the texas d. R. E. A. M. Act, and it does not need to be repealed, at a time when there is this sort of momentum to some of the arguments that george was making, like how do you try to keep the law on the books . Right. Well, i think as a texas businessperson, i think my perspective is maybe a little bit different. Ive had a business for a little bit over 20 years. And so ive had to be pretty pragmatic. You know, ive met over 600 payrolls in that period of time. So i understand the importance of bringing the sides together and making things you know, being practical. In that regard, i know that, as a businessperson, all of us in texas really benefit from having an educated workforce. And i think the value of that is really underestimated and not really discussed enough in this discussion. I think we as a Society Benefit by having a more inclusive and more educated workforce that can maximize the potential. Their potential. I think also, on a pragmatic side, were spending about 8600 a year to educate each of our students in texas. And so to spend that kind of investment, and then when you get to the college or the university level, and let them at that point not have the opportunity to continue their education, i think were losing out on the potential, you know, not just their individual potential but their collective potential and thus as a society. I think, you know, everybody wants a piece of the pie, but and theres a piece there, but collectively, the more educated we are and the more involved and the more of these resources that we can use, were going to have a bigger pie. And thats what its about. And i think the reality of 1403 kind of stems from were talking about less than 1 of the students in the colleges and university. And about 80 of them are actually Junior College students. So were spending a lot of time and energy focusing on this one subject because it is an easy target. This is not a voting population, so its easy for them to be picked on and kind of bullied george, can you talk on that a little bit, about why spend so much concerted energy on an issue that effects less than 1 . Because it is the magnet. It is the symbolism. It is a magnet. Contrary to what has been said, the immigration laws are not broken. Theyre not being enforced. Theyre just not being enforced. Theyre not broken. The headache that weve got, my friends and i worked on the 1986 law myself i have seen how businesses are not fined or punished for hiring illegal aliens. So while youve still got that, the illegal aliens are going to come, obviously, because they can work. The other issue is, as far as workers go, a Workers Program goes, the other issue is that weve got to not only enforce the law to stop illegal immigration and illegal workers coming in, weve got to do something about the welfare reform, weve got to do some welfare reform, because there are a lot of people sitting home watching Jerry Springer who could be out there working. And thats the headache that weve got. Lets focus on these kids. Jerry springer . Lets focus on these kids. And, you know, these are our neighbors and these are the ones that have gone to our local schools. Okay. Go ahead. Ill go after. The headache that weve got in the issue of workers is that when we did a study in california, in the in 1985, to see how it would work to get illegal aliens out of the fields and into and folks that were on welfare out to work, we found that the comparison of somebody on receiving benefits to somebody out there working was almost the same. So why theyre not dumb. Why get out there in the sun when you can get Welfare Benefits . George . Okay. The point is that we have these children that are in our schools, that are in our neighborhoods. These are kids that have grown up here. Theyve gone through the adversities that it has taken to complete their education. Most of them, a lot of them are working to support their family while theyre going through high school. A lot of them are valedictorians, community leaders. So what gets twisted about the argument with 1403 is that its about taking someones seat in that classroom. So 1403 is strictly on finance. Theyve already gone through the admission process, through their own volition, through their own achievements. Theyve already been accepted. 1403 is strictly about whether theyre going to pay instate tuition or outofstate tuition. So these are texas residents that have been here more than three years theyre illegals. Theyre not residents. Theyre illegals. Ok, you asked me to complete. Im going to complete. [applause] so the argument we hear about repealing 1403 is that theyre taking space away from other students. Thats not a valid argument. Thats an admission issue, not 1403, which is strictly finance. So these are students that are already paying an additional price, because there are requirements for their being able to be in state. Its a threeyear requirement instead of a typical person from another state, which is a oneyear requirement. So the requirements are already tougher for them to meet. So i think, as a society, for us to turn our backs on these students that have been raised in our backyards and have gone through our Public Schools, that weve had this investment for, to turn around and tell them that they dont have the opportunities i came as an immigrant from cuba. And ive had the opportunity to be, to achieve the American Dream and i live it every day. I want to turn around and try to help as many people as i can. And this is why i am, as a private citizen, on this panel, and starting this initiative to help these other students that need that helping hand. They dont need a boot. They need a hand. [applause] judge . You know, you and i had a conversation right before the panel started, and its pretty remarkable that we are even having this conversation, because when you look at texans like gabby, these are people you want in your state. These are the very young, talented leaders that make our communities strong, that make our educational systems strong, that make our country strong. And the fact that we are even talking about what to do with the dreamers is really stunning. And its unfortunate that in our state we keep going backward. In fact, we dont take the long view forward. Excuse me, sir. We rarely have the long view forward. And so when you think about the long term in your state, you want a talented, educated workforce, so that you can be competitive. When youre saying that people like gabby should be deported and where i will agree with george is we do have to take the emotion out of the argument. When you take the emotion out of the argument, theres no rational reason why we should go down this path. The more money that we invest in deportation or boots on the ground or various other republican measures that try to create a crisis where there is none, its not just a waste of taxpayer resources, but what were doing is were putting a strain on the very taxpayers who are wanting a competitive state, who are wanting to be able to progress. And so i think part of what we need more of, frankly, is more of what we saw, really exciting human, searing drama just moments ago, where the commissioner pushed back on a member of his own party that is trying to pull the state backward. Commissioner backward . I would like to just several things. I have been trying to take notes, and my memory is not very good, but i agree with george on some points. Im sure we agree and i disagree with the judge here about the false crisis at the border. We have a crisis at the border and its got a new dynamic now. In the last year. And its called terrorism. Its not just immigration. It is not just the usual issue that it used to be. And its not just on this border. Its on the border that comes in with the commercial airlines. We have a terrorism issue. But when george says that we have that theres nothing wrong with the immigration system, thats about the most bizarre statement, respectfully george. The maximum number of immigrants that are allowed into this country on an annual basis for iceland is the same as it is for mexico. Mexico is a population of 125 million. Iceland, 350,000. How is that a system that you can defend . You cant. Its not a system. It is broken. Its nonexistent. And it doesnt serve our needs. Let me finish. We have, the immigration system, number 1 consideration should be that which serves our needs in in country. No other country. Not in mexico, not in central america, not in iceland. If it happens to benefit them, thats fine. But its supposed to benefit us first. And the intellectual odyssey that is lacking on both sides, probably including me, honesty that is liking on both sides, probably involving me, when you say, well and i saw this in recent campaigns. We had four candidates in a race recently. Not one of them supports deportation of the 12 million that are here. I know of no republican, including steve king, and i could be wrong, that supports deportation. It is a fact. They are here. We need to deport the coyotes, the criminals. The narcotraffickers. But to say were going to do wholesale deportation is intellectually dishonest, because it aint happening. And furthermore, 1403 is an economic deal. Its instate tuition. And then if you say were not going to allow them to have instate tuition, but theyre going to be able to pay regular tuition, which is still subsidized by taxpayers in the state of texas, its intellectually dishonest. We have to figure out what we do and how we fix it and how we address these. I will give you an example. I was in the marine corps. I was in vietnam. I served with young men who were illegals and they were damn fine marines. And they ought to have a right to stay in this country. Military service is a pathway to legal status. I think you agree with that. Do you . No, i dont. Well, you wrote that in the column you wrote to the san Antonio Express news. Ive got a copy of it right here. [applause] you said that in your column. But the problem with military service is that can only serve a certain number. I support them doing something to make their status legal. And, you know, community service, military service. Go ahead. Im sorry. Let me tell you, the problem, again, is illegal immigration. We will always have illegal immigration while weve got magnets. I dont disagree. But what do we do why are you trying to what do we do with the 12 million that are here and the two million if we enforced the law, they would go home. No, theyre not. Are you going to go home . No. [laughter] i am home. There you go. [applause] okay. I think were getting somewhere. The only way shes going to go home the only way shes going to go home is if we deport her. And you said that is not going to happen. She would go home if there was no employment. If you could not get employment. No. There are statistics that show that people who are in extreme poverty usually stay home. It is a courageous, super courageous act to leave the United States. My parents left behind everything, a comfortable family, a home, everything. But they did it because they loved their children so much. They wanted to give us a future. That takes courage. Thats fine but there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. And we came and let me finish. We came to the United States. My parents did you or did you not come the wrong way to the United States . No. We came with a legal visa. And now what . So why are you illegal even . Because our system is broken. Because you overstayed. Its not working. You broke the law. We overstayed our visa. You are illegal and you have broken the law, because then youre breaking the law. If thats the definition of illegal that youre using for someone who is not documented, weve all broken the law at some point. If thats what all youre hanging on to, then you are clearly hanging on to the most emotional part of the argument. Talking about what are you talking about, illegal . I just want to say, that, specifically on the education part, right, so the dream act is a Scholarship Program for dreamers. It is privately funded. We have from the many family in the United States who are more affluent who have started this and have given, we have 33. 5 million in the fund and its growing. And the Scholarship Program is giving opportunities for dreamers and many of them here in texas to go to our texas schools. In dallas, in houston, and the rio grande area in el paso. And we do that because we understand the power of education. It is said that people who go to college are most likely 80 more to give into taxes. Also, for people who are the majority of the immigrants, their average income is 36,000. And if you dont give them the opportunity to pay in state, usually thats about 20,000 a year that they would have to pay. Nobody, no family could be able to afford that. So i think that the arguments for the education part are there. I dont really think that anybody that loves their country, loves where they live, their community, would be against anybody that has the heart and desire to either serve in the military or go into college and receive an education, that they can be against somebody wanting to fulfill that dream. Commissioner, the 2014 Republican Party of texas platform calls for the repeal of the texas d. R. E. A. M. Act. Do you support that, or are you against that . I think the texas d. R. E. A. M. Act is a symbol. Its not substantive in this debate. Heres the problem with the texas d. R. E. A. M. Act. Texas had to do something. And whether you like it or not, they did something. The problem is on a federal level. The federal level, the congress. And its not going to happen as long as obama is president , because we are so polarized up there. And the incompetency of the present is a part of that. Of the president is a part of that. It needs to fix it on a federal level, where there is a method for those who are here, who are illegal, who did not break our laws in coming here, to obtain a legal status. Military service is clearly one that would work, but thats not available for everyone. There needs to be a method for those who did not break our law when they came here to achieve a status to where they wont have to worry about a state legislature passing an instate tuition bill for those who are not documented who are here. But would you want to see it stay on the books . I would want to see it stay on the books for the mere symbolism of it, because where our head is in the sand because if we say, okay, were going to repeal 1403, then the question that follows is, okay, what do you do with those that are here . And that is why i keep trying to drive the argument to. You can have all these platitudes and all these lines in the sand. Until you say, okay, fine, this is what were going to do with the 12 million illegals, or the 2 million dreamers that are here, youre just arguing in sophistry about it. It makes no difference. It is doubtless. And if you do not have a planet you are in favor of the status quo which in effect is amnesty. Let me say this. And mention that its not going to happen because of the president. You know, a comprehensive Immigration Reform bill has overwhelmingly passed the senate. And we can pass one in the house tomorrow. And it will go to the president s desk and i have a very good feeling that he would sign it. But the problem is that boehner will not let a bill go to the house floor because of cancer losing in the republican primary, because the republican primary i mean, you saw the ads during the Lieutenant Governors race where they were using just outlandish language like invasions and things like that. And until the more extreme elements like the tea party extreme again. Gets out, taking over the republican primaries, were going to continue to have this problem. When cancer lost, the republicans decided they werent going to do any more Immigration Reform for the rest of the year. You know thats where were at right now. Doesnt have anything to do with the president. The problem with the Immigration Reform bill was it was too big a bite for the republicans to accept, because it included a path to citizenship. Thats not going to were not ready for that now. And the other thing, i would say to you is that, you know, our congress is afraid. All politicians are afraid. But the rhetoric in the Lieutenant Governor primary was focused on Border Security and im in complete agreement with that. A nation that cannot secure its borders is not a secure nation. We have to secure our borders. That sort of rhetoric is what makes it hard to pass the bill. Our borders are secure. Our borders are not secure. They are not secure. I think theres a clear difference in education, whether youre for moving forward with educating our texans or whether youre going to go backwards and reduce funding for education, for teachers, and reduce the ability for these dreamers to have an opportunity to get a college education. And i think thats the clear difference in the Lieutenant Governors race. I think whether were going to move forward or becomewards. Forwards or move backwards. There was no policy difference. On the guestworker program, all four candidates were in favor of the guest worker program. All of 12 million americans. All of them opposed the deportation of 12 million americans. But the perception was in line with what george is advocates. Perception carries the day, not reality. There wasnt a damn bit of difference. Its public record. How focused is the tea party on repealing the texas d. R. E. A. M. Act . Very. We are very focused, very adamant. And contrary to what everybody believes that were extremists, we represent the majority of what the American People want, not what latinos, not what blacks not any subcategory. What the American People want. And no. No. No. And let me tell you something. Okay. Just to illustrate to you why hes wrong on that [applause] again, comprehensive Immigration Reform overwhelmingly passed. Bipartisan, on the senate. Overwhelmingly passed. I think it had over 70 votes, well past the 60 votes needed to break the filibuster. If there was a comprehensive Immigration Reform deal on the house floor today, it would pass. John boehner wont let a bill on the house floor. It would pass in a bipartisan fashion. If you look at all the polls out there, most business leaders, the American People as a whole, africanamericans, latinos, whites, believe that we should have Immigration Reform. And so i dont agree with his sentiment that theyre in the mainstream of america. I think that most people would agree, and i think that we have freedom of speech in this country, and he certainly has the right to express his opinion as he feels. But when you use words like invasion and things like that, and you dont correct people when they use that sort of language, like the tea party thats what you call it. Like the tea party hasnt, then youre going to be put in the extreme category. And i think that tell me what it is then. To me, i think that is proper. If you ask the if you ask people across the board, do you believe in amnesty . Yes, no . Youre going to get a lot of nos. Probably a majority. If you ask them, do you believe in securing our borders . Youre going to get the majority yes. But when you get down to the details of it is where george loses his argument, because i spoke to a lot of hostile crowds and at the end of the evening, i had them on my side, because i went into details and i didnt stop at the cliches and twoword bumper stickers. Theres more to it. Our Current System encourages more illegal immigration. We used to have a circular illegal immigration, nonetheless illegal but people would come here and work and go home to their families. They cant do that anymore, because its too difficult to go back and forth across the borders. So what do they want to do . Bring their families here. So our Current System actually encourages more illegal immigration and until we have a guest worker program, not a path to citizenship, where its the guy thats working in the restaurant, the guy thats working you know, doing drywall, roofing houses, framing, working landscape, who wants to come here and do it and go home, we are going to continue to have this. I want my immigration and border patrol, i want them chasing narcotraffickers, not chasing the guy in the hotel. Thats what we need to do. [applause] why have so many texas Republican Leaders been, i guess, sort of afraid of coming out strongly and agreeing with you and saying, look, we need to keep the law on the books or not . Or why is there a little bit of its fear. I mean, its patently fear. Its too much of this and not enough of this. And frankly, its also you know, i lost badly, you know. However, if id have had sufficient funds, i think it would have been a different story. Thats a whole nother story. But my point is, if you lead with them and talk with them and if you go over it in detail and dont do cliches, they will follow. Theres just not enough people doing that. We keep revisiting these old issues, you know. When texas passed the d. R. E. A. M. Act, it was they had bipartisan support. It was overwhelmingly supported. Governor perry signed it into law. And so here we are years and years later, moving backward. Same thing with the border issues. You know, well keep trying to find some place, some group to demonize, some kind of red meat to make it seem like im going to be out there fighting for you. And frequently, its the border. Its immigrants. Its hispanics. And so it will take, i think, a lot more of the internal debate among the Republican Party to say, weve got to keep weve got to stop going backwards like this. The Republican Party is not the problem, the democrats are the problem, because they keep i would say both. I would say both. Both. I would say both. It keeps raising the hispanic issue, like this is a hispanic problem, hes already said it. Its not a hispanic problem. Yet thats what they keep saying. Theyve run on the idea of it. 3 million of the people undocumented are not latino. I just wanted to add a point. Is an economic issue. Its not a hispanic issue. This will be the the 1403 would apply to anyone, not just hispanics. So the issue of having someone the ability to come and achieve the dream of an education so they could better their lives and society as a whole would benefit, thats not a hispanic issue. So i would still be here on this stage if we were talking about canadians, if we were talking about french. It doesnt matter. Its the ability to have someone enjoy that American Dream, that have lived in our neighborhoods, that work in our grocery stores, work at our restaurants. The right way. These kids that, through no fault or choice of their own, are being excluded, because they dont have a piece of paper that they didnt have the ability to get. Id like to ask gabby a question. You know, the term go back and get in line, do it the right way. And were tired of people cutting in line and bumping out those that are doing it the right way. If there were a line in your country of origin, would you go there and get in it . Yes. Thats all were asking. Thats the point. There is no line. Even if you go back to the country of origin, there is no line, because the immigration system has not does not allow it. Id like to say it. Iceland has the same quota as mexico. Let me Say Something about that. Through the deferred action for childhood arrivals program, there is this thing that is called advance parole. And advanced parole, if they give it to you, youre able to leave the country and come back without being subjected to the 10 year bar. Some say be careful, because we dont know yet, but a lot of students that have visas waiting for them in their home countries have been able to ask for advance parole and get their green cards. Especially people who are married to u. S. Citizens, which, right now, before d. A. C. A. , that was not available. There are currently four Million People in the nation that could right now get a legal status, but they cant because of arbitrary laws that have been put in place in 1996, the three and tenyear bar, one of them, and people are willing to do whatever it takes, if it is going back to their home country, to come back and get a green card. I wanted to add something to what veronica was saying about going backwards. I do believe that in this issue, trying to repeal 1403, we are going to go backwards. Texas was the first state to do instate tuition, along with california. And i think texans should be very proud of that, because they led the nation. They saw that they had an issue. They saw that there was a lot of latinos and yes, this affects the majority latinos. And i think that is why usually when its talked about, thats who we talk about. But a lot of young people were dropping out of high school. They turned 16. They said, well, i cant go to college. Why continue . So they said, im going to go into the workforce and go to work. Well, 1403 changed that around and has allowed for hundreds and thousands of students to be able to go to school. Its less, usually, than 1 of the population but at least its helping people. There is a student from ut austin that i saw recently in washington d. C. , and she has her masters degree in pharmacy. She is in washington, d. C. Doing a residency there at the childrens hospital, making ut austin proud. Going out and fulfilling her dream. But also contributing to the society, being there, being able to help and support. Since 2001, we have 21 states that have passed this, similar instate tuition legislation, and just last year actually, just this year, we have had florida and the Florida Governor realize, hey, i need to do something about this. And i need to show latinos that im serious about immigration or at least this issue. What did he do . He went behind it, the people that submitted it were both republicans, in the house and the senate. So some republicans are realizing that being against things like instate tuition, 1403, its really going to hurt their party. And the majority of the population is for it. New jersey did it. Virginia did it. Maryland did it. And the states continue to add. Theyve realized that this is a good thing, and even if we dont talk about immigration, its a good economic thing. Its a good thing for the country and for just the young people that live within the communities that are going to be affected. If they get the opportunity to go to school or not. Thank you. I think im going to open it up to questions, because were getting towards that time. So there should be a microphone there. And so if you can address your question, either to the whole panel or to a specific panelist. And speak up into the microphone. Sure. I would like to address my question i would like to address my question to representative i mean excuse me. Mr. Rodriguez, and i would like mr\ rodriguez, and i would like to take the possibility of deportation, the 12 Million People off the table, since thats not really a possibility. And i would like to ask you, why is it okay for if this instate tuition bill is repealed and the students may have to pay more, why is it okay for those students to pay that money and any taxes that are unavoidable regardless of status . Why is it okay for the government to take and i hate to use your word but illegal money . The government is taking illegal money . In the form of sales tax. They shouldnt be here anyway. They shouldnt be here anyway. Hey, theyve got to pay something. [laughter] they need to pay something. [laughter] i have a do you really believe what you say, or do you just say things to be provocative . [applause] i mean, really. This is so absurd, the things that come out of your mouth. They are hill here illegally. Its beyond absurd. Its not rational. Its okay for them to pay out of state tuition, but not okay to pay instate tuition . They should pay outofstate tuition because theyre not residents. They are not residents. What dont you understand about that . Residents is a geographic definition. These are texans. They are not. Yes, sir. They are texans. They pay city and county and state taxes. So it doesnt matter that they entered the United States illegally . No, sir, it does not. I just want to okay. If that is your definition. That is my definition. Its a geographic definition. Were talking about a geographic definition. Theyve been here more than three years i feel thats wrong. But thats where is the gentleman that good question. Lets get the next question here. Im sorry. Next question. Sorry. Hi. My name is patty estrada, journalist from houston, texas. Mr. Rodriguez, by the way, wonderful last name. [laughter] so how are the dreamers hurting this country . Give me just three examples. Theyre not necessarily hurting the country. Theyre not necessarily. They are just here illegally. But they are they are here illegally. Okay . And the problem is illegal immigration. They are here because somebody brought them in illegally. Okay. Get back in line and come in the legal way. Theres no theres a right way and wrong way to enter the country. Show me the line. And my question for gabby. If you got your u. S. Citizenship, what will be the first thing that you will do for this country . So i think one of the things thats really important to me, and its funny. I dream of serving on a jury, because i feel thats a responsibility and i cringe when people try to get out of serving on a jury. They, you know, call in sick or say they dont want to. I think another thing that i would never take for granted is voting. I think that one of the reasons why we are where were at is because not a lot of people vote and not a lot of people vote, not just in primaries but also during midterm elections. And i think thats really important. And i think that the other thing that i really want to do is show politicians what it is to be a true Public Servant. So my hope is to one day be able to have the opportunity to serve my nation, to serve my country, my community, by becoming a Public Servant. [applause] when you say my country, this country . Yes, the United States. I have a question, a twopart question for rodriguez. But before i do, he made several statements at the beginning of the debate, that i would like to correct about. He said apologizing for being american and conservative. I think you cant just hijack what it means to be american, to label it just as conservative. I think were all americans. Theres many kinds of americans. Theres black americans, native americans, white, latino, all kinds of americans. And i think thats not right. First of all, that creating this sort of immigration, being a magnet to attract people to come here, i think thats incorrect. People are going to come here because this is a great country, full of opportunities. But, you know, the United States is number 17 in education and has a bad health care system. It has higher rates. Higher encouraged incarceration rates. So i would like to, before you speak in front of a panel to say things that actually my question is, why wont conservatives embrace what it means to be american, embrace diversity and participate in a solution that brings a solution to this immigration problem, that opens ourselves to the world . I think its silly to think were just going to close the door and not let anyone in. That is something that has happened and will continue to happen. And i want to know why the conservatives wont engage in a debate that will bring a solution, because we all are interested in finding a solution. Okay. George . I guess i am the only conservative appear. Up here. I am not sure what youre really talking about in the sense that were hijacking anything. Well, you said that okay. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. The solution that we see is, first of all, the first step has got to be to secure the border and to enforce the law. But thats being done. No, its not. Securing the border is being done. We disagree completely. There is zero illegal immigration coming from there you have it. But i thought you wanted my response . Thats my response. My response is its not happening, and it needs to happen. Who says its not happening . Im at the border. Ive seen it. You cant claim youve seen it, because you cannot claim anecdotal evidence. The border is not secure enough. There are other people with questions. Theres some other people with questions. I want to get some other questions here. Hi. My name is deborah. Ill save you all 23 years of my familys immigration history, just to let you know that i benefited from hb 1403. Ive been here since i was four years old. Im now 23. And i graduated from ut austin this past may. And the only reason i was able to attend this Great University is because of instate tuition for undocumented immigrants. I hate that you all keep saying illegal. But, you know, whatever. [applause] and i this panel is called what to do with dreamers. You want to know what to do with us . Let us use our degrees. Let us give back to the communities that we live in and love. And give me a chance to stop fighting for instate tuition, because ive been doing this for a while. Ive been lobbying at the capitol and making sure that students like myself arent robbed of our right to an education, and i hate that we waste so much time lobbying the halls of the capitol, trying to keep our instate tuition, when we could be focusing on getting licenses for our parents, guaranteeing them job security, making sure that i. C. E. Stops rating our homes and work places. Like let us focus on things that other things that matter. We have instate tuition. Stop going backwards. And i just want to know, is anyone stop enforcing the law . Excuse me . Stop enforcing the law . Is that what youre saying . No, no. Not at all. Im saying allow us to give back to our communities. Let me ask you this question then. Okay. Lets say that we did go ahead and compromise and say, all right, lets give amnesty to the dreamers. What about the thousands of kids that recently came across or the millions that want to come across or that will be brought across in the future . What are we going to do with them . Thats a good point. What are we going to do with them . Where does it end . I think thats why we need to and i wish all the where does it stop . I wish all the energy thats put on this debate to go back and forth is really put on congress to find a solution. No, no, no. Congress works its up to us to find a solution. Well, they need to vote. They need to be doing we tell them what to do. They dont tell us what to do. Well, the u. S. Government, i was taught that it is congress that writes the laws, right . Right. They write the laws based on what the people are telling them. And the people are telling them we need Immigration Reform. They are telling them that. [applause] theyre telling two things, that we need to secure borders and we need Immigration Reform. And it is not either or because you cant have Border Security without Immigration Reform. So again, my question, what do we do . So you wanted to know about being an american . American means being a nation of immigrants. We cannot try to hide the sun with one finger. And think that this issue is ever going to be resolved. Were lying to ourselves if we think that if we build these huge walls both in the southern and northern border, that thato figure out how to reduce the fact that we have 12 Million People who are unauthorized or undocumented in this country. And what we do need to realize is that there are people gaining from the fact that there are people who are not here without a legal status. And a lot of those people include president obama, boehner, the democrats and republicans and politicians that use this issue as a political football to throw it back and forth. And thats just the reality. Congressman, did you want to jump in on that, or i mean, whoa. You know, again, what i would ask george is that, you know, if he thinks that we have a problem, then i would like for him to call boehner up. We go back in november and ask boehner to put a bill on the floor. Boehner is not my congressman. But you have tea party influence. You could call some Tea Party Groups. We need the speaker of the house and ask him to put a bill on the floor. No. We have asked youre saying we have a broken system. We have asked the president , your president the president of the United States. That is divisive. And he has not chosen to do anything to enforce the laws or protect the border. That is a fact. George, he is your president. And again, you should call your speaker of the house. We only have one speaker. The speaker listens to us. The speaker is not going to put forward comprehensive legislation. It is not going to go forward because it is too big. What we need is enforcement at the border. Let me ask you as a fiscal conservative, let me ask you something. You are saying you want to basically what you are talking about would be very extreme. In that it sounds like it would shut down the border. We do business with mexico. Dependenty is very upon us being abling to have easy access between mexico and the United States. So what would you it is very funny that you would talk about fiscalness when democrats are the ones spending like crazy. Again, how are you going to avert a fiscal disaster by shutting down our border. Veronica, jump in. The young woman, the recent graduate from u. T. , congratulations, number one. Number two, the university of texas at el paso has a program where they actually expand the definition of who qualifies as a resident for instate tuition. Because it is to the universitys benefit to have these talented students be in the university. And so citizens from across the border can enjoy the benefits of instate tuition. And so we want that talent. We want folks like you. We want talent like you. So come to el paso. We would love to have your talent. And the dream act is in el paso as one. Ut el paso, it is one of our partner institutions. Next question. I would like to bring up the fact that those who are undocumented cannot receive welfare. So whoever is sitting watching Jerry Springer who has Social Security number. They are getting paid low wages to be under the sun. And it is not because they are dumb. They have to because they have to survive. After that, i would like to say that i have been here since i was 1. I was born here born in mexico city. When you say go home, this is my home. I literally dont know mexico at all. So that hurts. And i hope i share your last name, and so we have ancestry, and i hope one day you realize how much you hurt these families. I wish i wasnt crying right now, but it is just, i am so passionate about this. I want to be a politician one day just to be able to say we dont all want to be broken, and we all want to Work Together to help those who are here in the United States. I have always been an a. P. Student, i have been an honor student. And to see that america does not want to accept me and give me a job and let me contribute, it is really disheartening because i consider this my country. And to see that roger does not rodriguez does not want to consider me a worker for you, i just hope to be a Public Servant who teaches completely the opposite to that. Thank you so much for whatever you think you are doing. [applause] how do you argue with emotion . How do you argue with emotion . You are the first one. Again, the fact of the matter is that the law was broken. And what do we do . Ok, so we go ahead and grant her amnesty. Ok . What is that going to do for the thousands that came across recently and the millions that want to come across . The parents there are lots of parents all over the world that would love to send their kids to america. What do you do with them . You have a system that allows some. One more question . Well, it is more common on what you just said and what the young lady very briefly said there. I am cherokee chockta. My mother. Ok . I am looking around this room. By our standards, most of yall are immigrants. Of course. Everyone is. You are welcome for the houses, and we say thanks for the blankets. [laughter] and those of you who got that. Anyway, so my question is when you are talking about illegal aliens and children that were brought over as Young Children and i used to teach Public School. There is a Supreme Court ruling that says when those children appeared in my classroom and i taught in a title i. I have kids. I had quite a kids. I had quite a few girls just like you. Ok . And they are not what was it that you called them . Contraband or whatever that was. They are like contraband. They are not contraband. They are kids. They are my kids. You amaze me. You are in charge of outreach in Harris County, right . How did that work out . When they showed up we are having a spirited debate. It is what it is. You are extreme, and you are not radical, and you are making statements just to be provocative. There is no way that a rational person with all respect gentlemen, the point is when those children showed us in my classroom, the Supreme Court said, regardless of how i felt about the contraband that showed up in my classroom, i was required to give them as good an education as every other child that showed up in my classroom, whether those kids were differently abled, differently colored. They could be polka dotted. Didnt matter. I was to teach them. It did not matter where they were from and i could not ask them where they were from legally. Now, here is my question to you. If you are saying that these children, brought over here by their parents, are illegal and need to go back, i am asking you as a choctaw cherokee woman, how far back does that go . I taught history and there are quite a few folks that bypassed ellis island and became part of the country. I am looking at you irish for example and italian folks. Im looking at plenty of people. We tend to think of this as being texascentric. How many generations, sir, do you intend we should go back if illegal by your definition is illegal . If every person that came here to our shore without going through the normal documented way is illegal, how many generations do we go back . Two generations, three, four, five, seven generations . Like the bible says . How many, sir . George, how long has your family been here . One side, five generations. On the other side and how did they come in . Mine came across the bering strait. Like contraband. And the first immigrants in texas had names like mine. Sabine, came across the not the real bravo. Rio bravo. So we have a long history of illegal immigration. The biggest period of that occurred from 19141918 when a Million People came from mexico during the mexican revolution and people sent their children here to get out of the violence of the cartels, except it was not the cartels, it was the various revolutionary factors. None of this is new. We can learn from what happened a hundred years ago. It applies today. But again, we have to figure out what do we do with those that are here. Because we aint deporting them. It aint happening. No matter how much you believe in the rule of law, and i think you admitted that is probably not going to happen. So what do we do is the question . [applause] george, did you want to talk about your own family background . Did you want to add to that . There is nothing to say about the family background because the issue is not it is a historical fact that we have never had a secure border. We have never had a secure border. It is time to do it. Since 1848 we have not had a secure border. Its time to do it. Its time to do it. Any other questions . I see one . Yes. I want to make a statement that i think is pretty telling, how one person who make outlandish comments can really hold behind this conversation. I see five people that have been contributing to an amazing debate to find an answer, but there is one person who is one person, and i am not going to say your name because i do not need to, who is taking it backwards. I know the word backwards has