primetime all week here on c-span. >> and now, a hearing on older workers and their impact on the labor market and the economy. topics discussed included challenges in returning to the workforce, additional training and education and retirement savings. don buyer chaired this hearing. >> i want to thank all of our truly distinguished witnesses for sharing their expertise. let me turn to my brief opening statement. without question, older workers are vital to our collective prosperity. i'm not just saying that because i am 71 years old. they support families and communities nationwide, bring decades of earned experience and wisdom to businesses to places large and small. older americans made up 40% of the national economic output despite making up only 30% of the population. this year, older workers have almost doubled. a trend is set to continue even after the pandemic. as the united states continues a strong recovery, congress must be asking how a stronger economy can be built. the key is a better labor market that ensures all work as including all workers that older workers have access to quality jobs. over the past year, the u.s. economy has experienced record job growth. over 6.6 million new jobs were created in 2021 and almost one million more anyway 11. in the spring of 2020, unemployment was nearing almost 10%. the widespread availability of vaccines and testing. even as we recognize the record-breaking economic accomplishment in the last year, we must also address the ways our recovery has not yet reached everyone including older workers. older workers have long faced unique challenges in the workforce in these challenges were exacerbated by the coronavirus pandemic. diminishing returns from additional years of working an increasingly strenuous and dangerous jobs have contributed to widespread economic insecurity among older workers and constricted broad-based economic growth. the pandemic has also shined a new light on the inadequacy of our care infrastructure to help older workers navigate work and care responsibilities. this has been particularly harmful to older black and hispanic women. for example, one third of home health aides are aged 55 and older. yet care industry wages are low and care work is very physically demanding. this makes an untenable situation for aging providers as they are simultaneously less physically able to continue their work but also unable to save and retire securely. more than one in five workers aged 45 to 64 reports being a caregiver to a parent. if the united states does not guarantee any workers the right to paid leave, and older workers even less likely than younger counterparts to have access to paid six days -- sick days. this forces many workers to make the impossible choice between caring themselves and a loved one and getting a paycheck which harms workers, businesses and the broader economy. today, we are seeing these decade-long trends impacting older workers coming to a head. just as companies have historically used downturns, the same appears to be true of the coronavirus recession. at least 1.7 million more older workers than expected retire due to the pandemic recession. the effects have been particularly harmful for older black workers and those without a college degree. older workers choose to spend more time with hobbies and families. this is not a reality for many older workers. the reality is over the course of the pandemic, many older workers have been forced out of jobs, to live on insufficient retirement out -- income. for the first time in 50 years, the unemployment rate of older workers was higher than that of -- than those of midcareer workers. because our economy system is not kept up with the needs of the aging workforce, the typical worker in the united states has zero retirement savings. no retirement savings at all. among those that do, the amount of holy -- is wholly insufficient to maintain a pre-retirement of living. research shows they will experience significant barriers to be rehired particularly in recessionary periods. they face discrimination and stigma. no worker should be forced in the early retirement and at the same time, no one should be forced to work long into their golden years time no one should be forced to work long into their golden years because of insufficient savings. addressing these challenges in order to help build a better labor market for older workers and create a stronger economy is central to our work. i look forward to this discussion with our accurate -- with our expert witnesses and learning from them today. let me introduce senator lee from utah. the floor is yours. sen. lee: older americans are the bedrock of our community. it is hard to overstate their role. we rely on grandparents for everything, from helping to care for our children to building your churches and volunteering in local charities. increasingly older americans also make vital contributions in the workforce. many of america's seniors and more and more of them are choosing to work because they find work to be a source of engagement and meeting. a fellow utahan was missing the social connections and professional satisfaction associated with being at work after being out of the job for the last two years. like so many other older americans, when he started looking for a job again, he thought he would never be able to get a leg up navigating the endless changes that would be brought about by the pandemic. that is when we saw story about return utah. a great program to help utahans who are looking for work after an extended absence. he was surprised to find the utah office of energy development needed someone with his technical skills. elizabeth: hist -- his story is inspiring. as many choose to work longer -- older americans are doing better than they ever have before thanks to improved health and less physically demanding jobs. many older americans remaining in the workforce longer and more employers are benefiting from their reliability and their experience. older americans who choose to retire are also better set up for economic security than ever before. americans have never saved more or have more for their golden years. poverty among seniors is lower than any other age group. the preliminary indicator is those who left work during the pandemic did so because they can better afford to retire. older workers are doing remarkably well. what older workers do not need our new special interest programs and policies cooked up in washington and delivered half-baked by bureaucrats from thousands of miles away. let's fix what's broken. government spending is still the highest inflation rate this country has seen in four decades , and it is turning all americans, including our seniors , government programs intended to care for seniors often punish those who want to stay connected to the workforce longer. the threat of vaccine mandates continues to hang over the country, cruelly forcing americans to choose between the freedom to make their own health decisions and their jobs. ultimately a thriving unencumbered economy is the best way to allow older americans to make their choices and make those choices that are best suited for themselves and for their families, whether that is spending more time with the kids and the grandkids, volunteering for the local congregation, maintaining a long healthy work life or all of the above. i look forward to hearing from our witnesses of how we can foster this type of prosperity. thank you. >> thank you very much. now i would like to introduce our distinguished witnesses. one serves as a professor of economics and policy analysis at the new school for social research. she works at the schwartz center -- she is a labor economist and nationally recognized author and experts in economics and security. she offers various solutions to growing retirement crisis. dr. monique morris is an economist for the economic policy institute. she worked to the fl cio. and has written extensively about retirement security, compensation, and financial markets. in recent work examined the effects of the covid pandemic on older workers and ways to ensure they can fully participate in recovery. she received her phd in economics from american university. prior to this role she was a senior fellow at the center for american progress. before her time in the senate she worked in the white house under president obama, serving as deputy assistant to the president and director of policy and special projects for michelle obama. she is an expert on policies that would improve the quality of work for women and older workers and their families. she is a graduate of harvard law school. his work focuses on social security reform, state and local government pensions, and public sector pay and benefits. dr. biggs served as the principal deputy commissioner of the social security ministration in 2007 and into thousand five he was associate director of the white house national where he worked on social security reform. he received a phd in government from the london school of economics. let's begin with your testimony and will continue in the order of introductions. the floor is yours. >> thank you, chairman buyer, and ranking member lee and all of the other committee members who showed up. you are about to tackle the special issues the nation faces as nearly half of the 11 million or 12 million new jobs projected to be created by 2020, a half of those jobs will be filled with workers over 55. the stair -- the scale means they dominate conditions of the labor market. for a small minority of older workers, about 11%, we have great news. they still work though they have more than enough to retire on. those jobs are compelling and decently paid. older workers do not face those conditions. older workers are likely to be working more than younger workers. about one third of older nonwhite workers earned under $15 an hour, making them working poor. older workers stopped being paid for their experience and loyalty. the risk and return for working one extra years has fallen in the last 30 years. for some older workers, technology might make their work easier, but technology can also intensify work. as computers -- some of our most robust sectors thrive on low wage older workers. think about janitorial service and warehousing more older workers are required to concentrate and use keen eyesight and more older workers are required to do physical labor. about 14% of older black man aren't in physically demanding jobs. more older workers are working but despite all of that the u.s. has one of the highest elderly poverty rates, and all of that work coupled with unequal longevity gains means american workers have the fewest years in retirement. black men can expect 13 years. while most workers in the g7 have well over 22 years of retirement and they have a small poverty rate. more older workers want to work but about half of workers and middle-class households will be downwardly mobile into poverty or near poverty in the next 10 years. that is because the median account balance for older workers is $15,000. even if they wanted to work, most retirees are forced out of the labor force. the majority say they were forced to retire much earlier than they expected. dynamic markets defined by bargaining relationships and power. a nobel economist observed that when a growing group of people, older workers, do not have the basic capacity to retire, they do not have the power to bargain for better jobs. if older workers have more borrowing power, one third of the younger family members providing time and money to their elders would get relief. if older workers had more marketing power communities would spend less on fragile elders and they would have more marketing demand in their community and that helps the recession. if older workers have more bargaining power we would reward the employers doing the right thing, those employers that train and pay older workers well. finally older workers have more power to improve the retirement income security. you may hear about rosie models that conclude working longer solves everything, especially helping retirement income. those models wrongly assume something i thought was always true, but is wrong. older workers, instead of saving for retirement and delaying claiming social security, older workers are claiming social security while they are working and drawing down their savings. the truth about the conditions older workers work mean the idea of working longer is not as complex -- is not as costless as we thought. it is quite costly. congress could help older workers. they could form an older workers bureau like they formed the women's bureau. it could look at the research and recommend symptoms for the issues we will look at, including the highest level of perceived age discrimination in the last 30 years, probably the pandemic accelerated this. i created a plan with former president trump's chief economist and the economic innovation group, and that plan provides a government savings to workers in the bottom half of the distribution. this savings vehicle works alongside and is modeled after the federal savings plan. good help boost the memo wage, expand union rights, and increasing sickly. higher pay creates a virtuous circle. congress can also make medicare the first payer and that will lower the cost of health insurance for employers. strengthening older worker borrowing power helps more than older workers. better jobs for older people improve productivity for the whole economy, it helps younger family members, it helps aging communities, those regions of the country with lots of older people stabilize their spending power, and all workers get the leverage they need to improve their jobs. thank you. >> thank you very much and for the very concrete policy ideas. >> thank you members of the committee for inviting me to participate. my name is monique morrissey and i am an economist at the economic policy institute, a nonpartisan think tank created in 1986 to include the need of middle and lower aged workers. the pandemic recession was unusual. it was triggered by social distancing in response to the pandemic, which affected labor supply and demand. services are concentrated in leisure and hospitality while caregiving responsibility loomed large. older workers labor force participation increased as they delayed retirement in response to falling asset values. in contrast, homeowners and 401(k) participants benefited from rising asset, leading to an income among some clerk alleged workers. workers ages 55 and older. a more typical recession -- older workers were less likely to work in occupations and industry's most affected by the pandemic, but they were more likely to leave jobs due to health risks. job losses were greater among vulnerable groups including women, workers of color, noncollege workers comp and part-time workers. a robust federal response including relief checks and expanded unemployment benefits brought about rapid recovery despite the pandemic's persistence. this is in sharp contrast to the slow recovery after the great recession that caused lasting damage. as the economy recovered, older workers were slower to develop work. however, january data shows the employment date for older workers is now 1.4% lower pre-pandemic rate. even if older workers no longer account for disproportionate share of job losses, the impact can be devastating. older workers -- they are likely to be unemployed longer and their new jobs pay significantly less than their old ones. older workers benefited from measures taken during the pandemic to extend the duration of unemployment benefits, increase benefit amounts, and expand eligibility. these measures help the economy recover by shoring up consumption by allowing workers to find jobs suited to their skills. some older workers benefited by funding programs that encouraged programs to cut hours rather than laying off workers. we should be concerned about two groups of older workers. lower wage noncollege workers who are not prepared for retirement and frontline workers in industries and occupations essential to our economic recovery and future prosperity, including workers in education, transportation, health care, and caregiving jobs. frontline workers paid a steep price for our failure to protect workers during the pandemic. strong occupational safety and health standards remain a priority. many older workers left the paid work first stood up for health. others were sidelined. older workers employed in these low paid and dangerous occupations. the build back better act would greatly improve the lives of older workers and enable some to return to work. it includes funding for home and community based services, a home and medical leave program, and includes the pay and working conditions for caregivers. the united states is one of few countries that do not guarantee access to paid sick leave. this is bad under normal circumstances, but especially during a pandemic. two thirds of low-wage workers lack access to paid sick leave, including many home health aides. i testimony focused on pandemic related effects and policy. most policies that would help older workers also help other vulnerable workers, including raising the minimum wage, guaranteeing paid sick leave, addressing unpredictable and involuntary part-time schedules, combating misclassification of workers as contractors, and other policies that support good jobs with decent pay and benefits. thank you. sen. byer: we will next year from ms. jocelyn fry. the floor is yours. jocelyn: thank you so much. thank you for the opportunity to be here. over last five decades the national partnership of women in family has worked to improve women's lives and tackle gender-based barriers that he wrote economic activity in the health and well-being of women and all people. we believe prioritizing equity and a comprehensive infrastructure are essential to creating effective workplaces and promoting economic stability , especially for older workers who are vital to our families and economy but are increasingly on shaky ground as too often the narratives about older workers are oversimplified stories about comfortable retirements and financial security, but these stories ignore the economic realities of older workers, especially older women of color. i want to focus my remarks on three specific challenges. ongoing age discrimination, the lack of robust care infrastructure, and the need to improve job quality. older workers continue to face discrimination in the workforce. according to the equal employment opportunity commission six and 10 workers over the age of 45 report they have seen age discrimination at work. data from 2017 shows the increasing majority of age discrimination charges are filed by women. we also know because of long-standing patterns of segregation, many older women and workers of color are segregated into lower paying jobs. second, women workers are expected to share the responsibility for their families. this is true for women of all ages. despite the fact every family -- we treat caregiving as the private responsibility for families alone. these obligations have helped women throughout their careers, with many cycling out of the workforce, and economic losses estimated at $650 billion per year due to women's declining labor force participation. older women workers provide essential care for their loved ones, even if they address their own needs. the historical roots of caregiving as being performed by black women and other women of color has meant that care work and care workers have often been devalued with little babar to their own needs. many older workers are working jobs with low wages and without the support needed for a secure requirement, women have workers in the lowest paying jobs, women of color also -- one and three older women workers working jobs that are physically demanding and may be difficult to continue as they get older. a woman 50 or older who will leave the workforce early will lose an estimated $400,000. these problems have been on display throughout the pandemic. participation is lower than it was 30 years ago. caregiving continue to wreak havoc on women's employment in order workers have a notable decline in employment and labor force participation. the current moment calls for a reset focused on improving employment opportunities and outcomes for older women, older workers, and growing our economy. their pennies -- there are many solutions. first it is long time for the united states to invest in secure infrastructure that insurance a continuum of support and reduces the long-standing gender and racial inequity. second, congress should take action to improve job quality to help with wages and economic support for workers by raising the minimum wage, especially in caregiving occupation disproportionately held by older women of color workers. initiating a specific initiative to help with women's employment and the different factors impeding participation in our economy, especially for older women. thank you again for the opportunity to testify by the forward to answering your questions. >> thank you very much. finally we will hear from dr. andrew biggs from aei. dr. biggs: thank you very much for inviting me to speak today on about employment at older ages. the opportunity it presents, the challenges along the way, and how far we have,. the later changes -- later stages of our career is gateway retirement. to aid retirement give savings more time to grow, increase social security benefits. the question is can americans do it? i have been working retirement policy since the late 1990's and all of that time we have heard why americans cannot work longer, our health is too poor, age discrimination is too widespread for longer work to meaningfully contribute to retirement income security. americans do not listen to the experts and it works anyway. employment rates are at historical highs despite the covid pandemic and despite perceptions of older workers confined to only low-paying jobs, median earnings exceeded those of younger adults. on top of this the average american claim to social surety benefits over 1.3 years later today than they did in 1990. employment rates have increased the most for americans. it is not merely people like us extending their work lives. these are things that already happened. americans did with the expert said they cannot and have been rewarded for it. you've heard most americans cannot afford a decent retirement. the data shows americans retirement savings are decent levels. americans retirement incomes are also at record levels, not just among the richest retirees but across income distribution. incomes are driven -- risen faster than incomes for working age households and poverty is at record lows. the social security multimillion dollar retirement income model projects retirement incomes will rise and poverty will fall. oecd data shows americans work longer and save more for retirement than most other developed countries. our will reward -- our reward is the typical u.s. retiree has the highest disposable income in the developed world and reports the highest level of financial security, with the greatest number of retirees say they can maintain their pre-retirement standard living in the smallest number saying their incomes fall short. we can do better and one place to look is better entitlement programs. we call social security and earned benefit because the social security taxes we pay result in higher benefits. that is not true for most americans who choose to delay retirement. the typical worker who delays retirement by one year will receive only 2.5 cents in retirement benefits for each dollar of additional tax. that comes from certain quirks in the social security benefit formula. here retirees are particularly sensitive. unlike middle-age workers they have the option to retire. medicare also presents challenges to work in old age. medicare covers health costs beginning at age 65, but not for workers who continue to work in jobs that offer health insurance. instead medicare acts as a secondary payer and covers only what the employee plant wants. this either reduces incentives for employers to hire older americans or costs are passed on to employees. neither the social security's for the medicare fixes would be cheap. it is providing benefits to americans, providing employees to american firms, and generating new tax revenues to the federal government. a strong labor market in which older americans can easily find jobs is the best social program. the best weapon against employers who might discriminate by age and the best method to help americans cross the finish line into a retirement. -- for those coming back from a drug problem or a criminal record. making jobs plentiful makes nearly every other problem americans face easier to solve. the gec should think about the myriad ways in which we can build a vibrant labor market for older workers. thank you for your attention. sen. beyer:: thank you very much. i appreciate all those inputs. we begin with our round of questions. you've been a strong advocate of the idea of an order workers bureau in the department of labor. how would this be part of the solution? dr. ghilarducci: i do not want to create a big government bureaucracy, but having one place in the government that focused all of the research about the chaining -- the changing issues. the labor department has in the treasury has unaware older workers are staying have given a good picture of what is happening to them, and also the order workers bureau is filled with lots of economist also telling us how this wave of older workers are affecting the whole economy, how employers are adding to productivity as workers get old and others do not. as we look at industries that are hiring a lot of older workers and have concrete ideas besides do not think badly of older workers, it was really attached to the problems you will be facing in the next 10 years, more age discrimination, more insecurity. some good news has happened if you think about all the time. elizabeth: -- sen. beyer: much of the story in the mainstream media is about financially secure order workers happily choosing to play golf and take care of grandkids. how is the media getting this wrong? dr. morrissey: there are a few older workers who fall into that category. we have seen an uptick among college-educated white men age 70 and older who are probably already taking social security and then decided to leave. their work might have dried up and covid fears and all of that. the people we should really be worried about our this large group of workers under 65 are not college education who are predominantly workers of color employment declines. those are the people i most concerned about in terms of the impact for their families and themselves. this is also a problem that predated the pandemic of the pandemic made it much worse. another group of workers i'm worried about is workers for whom they might be able to comfortably retire. a lot of the workers are not 65, but school teachers, nurses. they are critical to the economy recovery. we are seeing large numbers of these workers leaving. for the economy that group is critical to stem that out for? we need to make sure the large -- the noncollege workers, under age 65, are able to return to lord force. one of the reasons this got so much attention is because there is a disconnect. it was in session by some federal reserve -- that there had been a decline in workers going from unemployment to retirement, but that was sort of a mission measurement. the retirement rate of people unemployed going into permanent retirement declined slightly, but the sheer number grew dramatically because there were so many more unemployed workers. i want to do a shout out to some grad students. teresa's team was the one who figured out why there was this communication about what was happening terms of inflows and outflows out of retirement. they untangled the two effects. you might have a slight decline in the people who are unemployed , but there are so many more unemployed older worker that that was what was causing a decline in older workers. it is a confusing thing but thanks to teresa's team. thank you. sen. beyer: let me recognize senator lee. i see you are present in the digital mix. are you also present in real life? give senator lee just one minute. >> is running a couple minutes late. we are moving towards schweikert , the ranking member of the house side of the joint comic committee, the floor is yours. we need to hear you. david: at some point we mail be doing this in something called the metaverse we get to functionally be avatars -- i am familiar with a little bit of their work and i had some frustrations because i think we have problems in our data matching. that is that secondary. by a big fixation on our demographic curves and what is happening to the working poor, and we have to have a moment of honesty. the last year has been brutal to the working core, especially if you trusted transfer payment fuel. that may mean a burning power over the next decade. maybe there is something using i could find a collective understanding or agreement, and that is what policy says -- is there an effort to save our credit type of matching that would bide additional retirement security, particularly for the three quartiles we are most worried about. mr. biggs, if i came to you tomorrow what tweaks would you make -- our tweets and medicare might have a health positive to the trust fund but would encourage our brothers and sisters who are older to stay in the labor force and we can also have the discussion, which i despise the antidotal discussion on health benefits. what policy sets would you move forward on? jocelyn: -- dr. biggs: your proviso they do not hurt the health of the trust fund is where things get difficult. i may touch on two points. one is even eight -- you make to want work pay at an order age -- all the extra money you pay goes to social security, not your own benefits. it is unusual to get your money back at that stage in the game. i have proposed reducing or eliminating the payroll tax at early ages to sweeten the deal for people to keep working. united kingdom does that. once you reach their normal retirement age their version of social security goes away because you're not getting anything for it the research shows near retirements are very sensitive to these incentives. reducing the payroll tax would cost social security money, but if more people work paying state and local income taxes. on medicare -- if medicare took over as a primary payer, again it will cost money, but that would make older workers more attractive to employers, it would make work more attractive for seniors because it would raise their wages. evening it out as a tricky part, you want to think about it in the context of more comprehensive reform. i would scale that down for high earners. these are folks whose retirement savings are through the roof. they can more save were -- i think there are ways we can make these packages work but we have to not be afraid of reforming the plans stuff we need to think creatively about it. sen. beyer: medicare it self does have some income adjustment . would you steep in that curve and use some of those resources to help finance the incentives to stay in labor force or some of the lower quartiles of income? dr. biggs: i would. medicare has more effective means testing that social security does. i am not primarily a health care guy also -- focused on your lifetime earnings to encourage people to save or work more. it is really thinking about how you want to -- sen. beyer: i think i have a fairly robust article talking about that same formula. we have spent a decade talking about the baby boomers coming and we avoided the discussion because somehow congress forgot there were people turning 65 and are now well into that retirement cycle. the nature of work has changed. we are no longer digging ditches -- united states needs talent in the labor force, particularly if we are going to have gdp or economic expansion. arrays united states -- sen. beyer: we will next year from senator amy klobuchar if she is here. the senator is not. there she is. senator klobuchar. the floor is yours. it is still early. sen. klobuchar: thank you. i have been pretty obsessed with his hearing for a while because we have a lot of seniors in our state. i hope we have huge workforce issues in our state -- this is one of them, making sure people have the best experience they can and being part of our economy if they want to be. my first question is that the data provided by the shores -- for economic prowess. -- workers have a lower income based on each your work. can you tell us about the statistics based on your organization and why is it indicator of the challenges older workers face. >> waste saw that starting to happen in the financial recession. it does seem like employers are abandoning older workers. they are not trading them, they do not value the experience, but there are some sectors that are who bring up older workers. warehousing, the vending i talked about, amazon warehouses. we had an academy award-winning movie about that. back to your question. the return of experience is a result of employers not valuing older workers and it means those catch-up contributions congress put in to have that extra weight older workers can save for retirement, it does not work for people who peeked around 45. congress has to completely rethink the way they do retirement security because of the decline in the return -- senator klobuchar: dr. morrissey, could you talk about how the work sharing benefit particular benefits older workers. you talked about that as an alternative to traditional unemployment. i can answer the question on my own. i want to hear from all of you. dr. morrissey: i just want to make it clear that even though i am a huge fan of work sharing, and i'm very grateful for congress to including work sharing in the cares act, which was wonderful, i think it was underutilized and remains underutilized by the states that provided. what work sharing does is allows employers to reduce hours across the board and compensate workers, not for unemployment, but for lower hours -- why it matters to older workers is because when older workers sever their limit relation ship with an established -- long-term unemployment, discrimination in hiring, seeing much lower pay and whatever job they are able to get after the fact. it is particularly important for these workers they do not actually sever that employment relationship. they have employers specific skills. they have more tenure with the employer. it is important for them and the economy. even though the extended unemployment benefits helped with job matching and allowing workers to get better jobs after the effect. often there is a mismatch, because they are desperate to get any kind of work stop -- extended unemployed and better benefits. >> thank you. i want to get one more question in and not turn off another member of congress. ms. frye, in your testimony you talked about we should dispel the notion of an average older worker and highlight the different lived experiences of older american workers. you quickly expand on that? jocelyn: thank you. the important thing to recognize his people come to the table differently. what we know is there are existing disparities in wages among women. many do not have earnings necessary to allow them to have a comfortable retirement. they are also in low-wage jobs -- we have to have a diverse understanding of the experiences they bring to the table. >> we all know women may lead the workforce for a while, raise a family, and then they have less money coming in for retirement and social security. i have found having older workers in workplaces, i have one in my state office that was a complete joy. younger workers say we will always go to them for advice, and that is good, including to have a mix of people, including romantic advice. i found that to be a nice mix of people and that is true in all work laces and we should highly value some of the older workers and bring them back if they want to. thanks. >> thank you very much. great insight. now the senator from utah, the floor is yours. sen. lee: thank you very much. dr. biggs, we hear about a retirement crisis. many say people are saving less and less for retirement and fewer and fewer americans have access to retirement savings account. your research tells a different story. your research finds that americans are more confident about their ability to retire comfortably and the united states ranks among the leading nations in the world in terms of retiree disposable income. can you elaborate about what makes america different in that regard and tell us why are our seniors better prepared for retirement and why are they looking longer and more productive careers in anyone else. it seems like an accomplishment when it deserves our celebration. dr. biggs: i think a lot of times we do not give ourselves credit and we focus on the problems and not enough on the accomplishments. the state of americans retirement income security is the backdrop for hearings like this. work in late middle age can make or break your retirement. compared to when defined-benefit tensions were at their peak in the 1970's these were the tensions everyone pined for, compared to them the share of workers participating in retirement has increased to medically. the perception of our salaries that we save for retirement has increased to medically. total retirement plans have increased 7% since then the number of retirees who receive benefits from a private retirement plan. that is up dramatically. retirement incomes aren't record highs while poverty in old age is at record lows. 80% of retirees tell gallup they are working to live comfortably, while only 5% tell us they are finding it hard to get by. these are actual data points. what we have to do is square with the other witnesses are saying with the actual data of what we have seen happen. the way you bring this together is despite the problems face, good wages at older ages or reaction to plan or putting money into it, we are clearly better in terms of retirement preparation and we were in the past. just to sum up in my testimony, i gave the example of -- the bee should not be able to fly because the aerodynamics are not good. they fly anyway. 401(k)s are more common. they do not place burdens on employers to run. we have a more free labor market that gives more opportunity for people to work longer and reward them for doing that. our system is messy but it works in the data shows it works better than a lot of other countries. sen. lee: thank you. it is very good insight. research gathered by my staff on the joint economic committee finds that social capital among or americans has declined over time so -- over time. americans approaching retirement age are less likely to have a spouse or a companion, they have fewer and family nearby and are less likely to attend church services regularly. one bright spot is many older americans are more likely to them be employed i agree that the best way to support older americans who wish to work and to empower them in the workplace and there's our economy with plenty of job opportunities -- what you think would support a strong labor market to make those things possible? dr. biggs: the key is to make a lot of jobs available to people. when you have many choices of jobs the employer who discriminates will be forced out by the ones who do not. we have many choices of jobs. we do not want jobs in this and this and this. all of those benefits are things that make the employer less likely to hire you. you can mandate whatever benefits you want, but employers does not want to hire the older workers. we have to have something where we have as many jobs as we possibly can and then let the market push things up. prior to the recession we saw wages increasing for low earnings faster than they did for the very rich. that is the sort of thing that warms my heart. it is china make the market more vibrant. sometimes that is at odds with all of these individual problems. sen. lee: thank you very much. thank you mr. chairman. sen. beyer: i now yield the floor to my friend from maryland, congressman david frowned. rep. trone: thank you for this hearing. as a fellow business guy like yourself, mr. chairman, it is so key we have these older workers with us. we have a tremendous shortage of workers, but these older workers bring such maturity, insights, and dedication that my company cannot find enough folks in this age bracket. dr., i have seen firsthand in our district how tough it is to reenter the workforce. we had a paper mill close in maryland was open for 131 years and incoming workers added jobs, needed retraining. we submitted a trade adjustment assistance patient that was approved and that helped them start a new career paths. what role should replaying play in helping these or american seed -- these americans succeed? >> the training programs now are rewarded for placing people in the jobs that pay as well or better than they have before. if you have a lot of older workers in your training program you will get a low score because older workers tend to make less they did before, especially if they have lost the union job and are being trained for a lower union job. the national senior employment act is going up for renewal -- >> that is great. how a combat age discrimination, there are so many myths. these older americans are outstanding. dr. ghilarducci: lots of really good work in the gerontology and social fields to do that. we have to start with ourselves and stop making jokes about our senior moments. that has to stop. may it is up to congress, age discrimination cannot be tolerated and there are lots of proposals to make enforcement of laws we already have tougher. rep. trone: ms. fry, you highlighted the importance of paid family and medical leave. i have 12,000 employees in my company. it is great for the employees come is great for the employers. it addresses the tender wage gap . rather than expecting a woman care -- not just providing more paid family leave, but full utilization of these benefits by older workers. >> you're absolutely right that -- is critical to enable folks to manage their care responsibility. we have to reinforce the idea that paid family medical leave is for all workers, it is not just a parental benefit, it is also to deal with older workers and their needs, and we have to dispel the myth and cultural barriers that sometimes disincentive eyes people from taking leave and recognize the point you made, which is by taking leave, we can actually make workplaces more productive. we can improve morale and efficiency overall. i think the combination of sending that message about why it is important in creating the culture within the workplace to show that when you take it it is beneficial and supported. rep. trone: you're right that the culture is key. my top priority in congress has been the opioid crisis and a lot of older americans have been hit hard by the opioid crisis. what we see is that between 1999 and 29 teen, the older american workers have a tenfold increase. what things should we do to ensure americans struggling with substance abuse disorder have the resources to participate in the workplace? >> that is a really important point. there are economists who have written about the depths of despair. we have seen an uptick in suicides, in overdoses at all ages, including older workers comp and it is partly economic. this is concentrated among the lower paid and less skilled workers and jobless workers and it is tragic. one of the groups of older workers we have seen leaving the workforce are therapists in large numbers. we need more therapists, we need more programs, we need much more funding for treatment and mental health services, there is no doubt about it. thank you for that question. >> ideal back. sen. beyer: thank you very much. we now recognize the senator from texas, senator cruz. sen. cruz: right now the american people are suffering from the impact of historic inflation brought about by president biden's out-of-control and reckless spending. our national debt has surpassed $30 trillion in inflation is raging across the country. with our latest economic reports indicating inflation has increased devon percent over last year, the highest inflation this country has seen since 1982. at the end of the day this is not complicated. high inflation, which can happen when the federal government prints money presents a real problem for american problem for american families because it means that their dollars have less kherson power as prices go up and erodes the value of their savings. as a result it is more expensive for hard-working families put food on the tables, to put gas in their cars, heat their homes. even worse inflation hurts the most vulnerable among us the most including seniors who have diligently saved to spend their retirement years on fixed incomes and now find that their savings are worth less than the expected. would you agree that high inflation hurts our nation's seniors and hurts those living on a fixed income? >> one of the best things about social security is that it is inflation indexed. health care prices audibly did not go up as much as inflation. inflation hurts working families, for sure, especially if wages have not caught up. but seniors who have social security actually got a boost. >> you can continue to watch this hearing on c-span.org. we are going live not to a briefing on the nasa artemis 1 much that was delayed today because of an engine problem. you are watching live coverage on c-span. >> to the proper temperature for left off. earlier in the countdown, teams are able to troubleshoot an issue related to a hydrogen spike, feeling the core stage tank. and the rocket remains in a safe configuration as the team assesses next steps. to talk about today's operations and path forward is nasa administrator billel