communicators," with astra .aylor on "american history" on c-span three, recently released letters from warren harding, detailing his long-term love affair and a discussion with his grandnephew on how the fallout of the affair affected the president's legacy. that is tonight, beginning at 8:00 during on the c-span networks. clemensen says that global exampleis the greatest of science gone bad in history. working with one of the founders of greenpeace, he says that there is no tie between human activity and extreme weather events. this is 45 minutes. >> last evening, there was talk and people bring up the left on the right than do liberals and conservatives. i wanted to say from my own heart and say that, during the course of this debate, i have run across and made friends with, shared opinions with folks on all sides of the political spectrum. there are so-called skeptics who are liberals, who were socialists, you name it, are on the political spectrum. there are so-called alarmists who are generally conservative on other issues, whatever. my personal opinion that come up or you find more conservatives being skeptics, is because the prescriptions reading -- being advocated involved big government, more money and power to government, infringing upon people's rights to choose. so we will have an initial skepticism. but we need to make sure it is justified. let's make sure we are destroying the planet before we start destroying our economy and our way of living. we certainly respect and welcome all perspectives and that should be the case on all sides of the debate. it is not just left and right. it is interesting how so many folks that are global warming skeptics come from environmental activist brack grounds -- background. i consider myself an environmentalist. i do travel quite a bit and every chance i get, when i travel, i want to go out. i want to see the lay of the land. i want to go hiking through the forest. i want to experience the beauty we have in this country and make sure we are good stewards of it. however, it does not mean we will just jump on board for every asserted environmental crisis. like i mentioned earlier, we want to see the proof in the pudding before we jump on board. it takes courage if you are concerned about the environment to critically examine some of the assertions, some of the empire mental activist assertions. sometimes you -- the environmental activist assertions. i am going to stand up for the truth. i am proud and honored to introduce a man who has done that throughout his life and continues today. dr. patrick moore has been a leader in the international environmental field for over 30 years. he is a founding member of greenpeace and served for nine years in greenpeace canada, seven years of director greenpeace international. as the leader of many campaigns, dr. moore was a driving force, shaping policy and direction while greenpeace became the largest environmental activist organization. in recent years, he has worked on consensusbuilding. as chair of the sustainable for street committee, he leads the process of developing the principles of sustainable for street which have been advocated by a majority of the industry. it is my pleasure to introduce to you dr. patrick moore. [applause] >> thank you. good morning everyone. thank you for inviting me here to give my opinion on the subject of climate change. this was my home for my first 14 years, a small logging camp on the northwest tip of an hoover island on the rainforest by the pacific. i did not know how lucky i was. i was sent off to vancouver for boarding school and then to the university of british columbia to study life sciences. in 1960, before the world was known to the general public, i discover the science of ecology, how all things are interrelated and how people are related to them. in the mid-1960's, at the height of the vietnam war, the height of the cold war, and the threat of all-out nuclear war and the growing concern for the environment, i was transformed into a radical environmental activist. [laughter] i can't seem to get it to go that way anymore. i found myself in a church basement with a like-minded group planning a protest voyage against u.s. hydrogen bomb testing in alaska. we proved that is somewhat ragtag group could sail an old halibut boat across the pacific, help galvanize of the composition, and change the course of history. that turned out to be the last hydrogen bond the united states ever detonated. president nixon canceled the remaining test in the series due to the overwhelming opposition we had spearheaded. on our way back from alaska, we were welcomed into the big house near my northern vancouver island home where they made us brothers of the tribe. this began for greenpeace the position of the warriors of the rainbow. it is after a cree legend that says, one day, when the birds are poisoned, people of the world will join together to save the people of europe. we named our ship the rainbow warrior and i spent the next 15 years on the front lines of the movement around the world. next, we took on french nuclear testing in the south pacific. france was still detonating hydrogen atomic bombs in the air in the 1970's, sending radiation around the world. it took some years to drive these nuclear tests underground. as late as 1985, french commandos bombed and sank to the rainbow warrior killing our photographer. going back again to the 1970's, here i am driving a small rubber boat into the first encounter with these soviet factory whaling fleet in the north pacific in 1975. we confronted the whalers, putting ourselves in front of their happens -- their harpoons to protect the fleeing whales. that got us on television, bringing save the whales to everyone's living room for the first time. just four years later, whaling was banned in the north pacific. here i am sitting on a baby seal off the coast of newfoundland to protect it from the hunters' clubs. i was arrested and hauled off to jail. the seal was clogged and skinned. but this picture was in newspapers all around the world the next morning. this eventually brought changes to the way canada manages its seal herds. by the mid-1980's, we had drawn from a church basement to a group of 100 million a year coming in and in 120 countries around the world. for me, it was time to make a change. i had been against at least three or four things every day of my life for 15 years. i decided it was time to figure out what i was in favor of for a change. i made the transition from the politics of confrontation, which is basically about telling people what they should stop doing, to the politics of trying to find consensus on what we should do instead. there is no escaping the fact that 7 billion people wake up every morning on this planet with real needs for food, energy, and materials. sustainability, which for me was the next logical step after environmental activism, is partly about continuing to provide for those needs. maybe even getting a little more food and energy for people in the developing world while at the same time consolation revving to reduce the negative impact caused by getting the food, energy and material from the earth's environment. i could go on forever but that is my story from the early years. [applause] why did i leave greenpeace. when we started, we had a humanitarian mission to stop nuclear war. by the time i left 15 years later, greenpeace had drifted into a position along with the rest of the movement as eric rising humans as the anime is of the earth and that was not for me -- of characterizing humans as the enemy of the earth and that was not for me. van chlorine worldwide became one of the slogans. i was trying to convince them that chlorine was one of the most important moments for public health and medicine. 75% of our synthetic pharmaceuticals are chlorine-based chemistry. anyway, i had to leave because of that. look at them today in the philippines with a mask on in a parade that could help 2 million kids dying each year and they are associated with the death. that is where greenpeace went and i didn't want to go there. i will just tell you about forests for one second because it is the most important thing and it has a lot to do with climate. it is the most important renewable energy in the world and sequester carbon in the world and yet greenpeace is against four straight. they are against the most important renewable resource in the world. we should be growing more trees and using more would. -- more wood. [applause] many activists say we should be cutting fewer trees and using less would. here is what the ipc says. they are actually correct on this except it takes them 38 bureaucratic words to say it. in the long term, rent is maintained at maintaining our foreign carbon stock -- that is what they called trees -- [laughter] will generate the largest sustained mitigation benefit. that means the best thing to do. in other words, they are saying use trees instead of using steel and concrete wherever you can and you will be using something renewable. greenpeace says the ip ct says the easiest and cheapest way to protect -- to prevent climate change is to stop cutting trees. that is not true. the ipct is just saying grow more trees, use more words. six words. [laughter] [applause] there is the ipcc -- sorry, how did i get there? read the second one worse. extremely likely -- does it make it more likely to put the word extremely in front of it? they say yes. that means 99% because very likely is 90%. so they put percent along with adjectives to go with likely. what it turns out is that this is not a scientific word at all, likely. even in the ipcc report, they say it is an expert judgment. that is not a fact. that is an opinion. this was an opinion. so let them have their opinion. but they should make it clear that it is an opinion. sorry, back up your. -- back up here. whoa. ok, start over again. went too far back. this is not even an internationalist so so much for your consensus. i put my faith in the late michael creighton who said i am certain there is too much urgency in the world. [laughter] [applause] you cannot say that you are certain you are right when someone in authority says that it is extremely likely. that is not certainty. i will show you what i always show people. . . you honestly know this. first, yes, co2 is increasing in the global atmosphere. but let's look at the last billion years of global climate change. i chose the most recent billion years. there is 3 billion more years before this. but we know pretty clear that this is what has happened over the last elliott. it -- last of billion. it has generally been warmer than it is today. there have been 4.5 ice ages during this period of time where temperature plummets on average down to 12 degrees, even 10 degrees celsius global average. today, it is 14.5 degrees celsius. we are in an ice age. that is why both polls are covered in ice. people don't understand that we are in an ice age now. this is an interlace your -- interglacial period. it is generally a cold time in terms of the earth's history. why are there 300 million people in the united states and only 30 million people in canada? one word. cold. [laughter] sometimes i think that is why they let us have it. [laughter] you saw this graph yesterday in a different format. it is the most recent. 600 million years since modern life emerged during the cambrian explosion. it shows is laid that there is no lockstep correlation between co2 and global temperatures. at times, they seem to be moving in similar direction. there seems to be correlations sometimes, but as you know, correlation does not prove causation. and you need to see more of a lockstep relationship. temperatures bounded on the top and the bottom probably got a lot of feedback forces that are creating a maximum and minimum and we are in one of those minimums right now. it shows right there, for example. now it is 14.5. co2 is about 400. the average over the last 600 million years has been around 2000, which coincidentally, is the optimum co2 level for plant growth. four to five times higher than it is today. that is why greenhouse growers quickly put the exhaust from their gas and wood haters into the greenhouse. so we can look forward to increase in productivity in agriculture from increased co2. this to me is the grass. if you accept this is true, which is probably something like true because it has been warming for the last hundred years or so, the ipcc says we have been the dominant cause since the mid-20th century. that is 1950. in other words, they do not ascribe the rise in temperature between 1910 and 1940 to human caused emissions because we want him getting much back then. they only say it is the part between 1970 and the year 2000 that was caused by humans. then what caused the rise in temperature between 1910 and 1940? it is identical induration and size. .4 degrees over four years. they are both the same. it is not logical to be extremely likely that the second one is caused by us and the first one in is caused by something else. [laughter] this to me demonstrates the logical fallacy in explaining that we are the dominant cause for global warming. [applause] there has been no increase in global temperature for 10 months and running. the temperature has declined by a significant amount. the polar vortex had something to do with this, i think. i forgot, that was warming. [laughter] that's right. i shouldn't make that mistake again. and here of course is the arctic sea ice that right now is nearly a million square bloggers below its average since 1979 when we first started measuring it from a satellite. we have no idea what the extent of arctic sea ice was before then. but somehow someone got through their with a wooden boat and 1904. who knows what it was like back then during the heat wave of the 1930's into the 1940's. here is the southern ocean where, if you take the difference between the antarctic and the art that, there is now nearly one million square miles more sea ice than the average since we started measuring it in 1979. this is the sum total of our knowledge of sea ice. supposedly this is also due to global warming whereas the -- the decreasing extent is also due to global warming. so i get it. everything is due to global warming. [laughter] [applause] our children are not taught logic. they are not taught what the scientific method is. and they are told that carbon is soot. it has been a slow gradual rise. the pole melts a little more, too. this is tropical rain energy. al gore knows about this and he continues to say that it will be a devastation of the earth from message -- from massive hurricanes. no such things. right now today is the longest period we have known since the last category of three or category of four. they say there is no evidence of an increase in extreme weather events related to the warming that has occurred. yet bill mckibben and al gore and the whole bunch of them perpetuate the idea that every extreme weather event is because of us. this is why we will never be able to predict the future of the climate, other than about three days out as john coleman who is coming up soon will probably tell you he knows. [laughter] it is because of clouds. water is the most important greenhouse gas and is the only one that appears in both liquid and gaseous phase. and they behave in completely different ways with regard to solar energy. clouds can reflect the sun back. they can hold the heat in depending on where they are and how they they are and what computer model can predict the pattern of clouds in the world? it's impossible. that is why we will never be able to predict the future of climate and clouds are the wildcard and many people believe that, as the earth warms and more water evaporates off the seat, it will be cloud or he -- the sea, it will be cloudier and wetter and there will be negative feedback against the effects of co2 and that is as laws of the layup of the seas as the fry and help hypothesis that we keep getting from the alarmists. as a matter of fact, it is probably more plausible. co2 is the most important nutrient for all life on earth. please teach the children this. [applause] when we started in mating co2, it was down to about 260 ppm. now it is at 400. if it had gone down by the same amount, as we have caused it to go up plants would have started dying because plants start dying at 150 ppm. one of the reasons that co2 has fluctuated during the iglesia nation we have had in the last 2.5 million years is, because when plans start dying, they e-mail the co2 that -- they e-mail it the co2 that -- they emit the co2 that they hold. james lovelock was a pessimist about climate and said that humans are a rogue species. he decided that, if gia is one great organism, maybe we are doing her bidding. it's like carlin said. the reason people came into existence is because the earth wants [indiscernible] the reason the bull came to existence is because the atmosphere wants a little more carbon dioxide for the plants. who knows? 88% of world energy -- especially to people concerned about human-caused climate change, energy is the flipside of the coin and durable energy policies what they want to get their hands on, as if there is some kind of guile you can turn somewhere that is going to change the climate. they want to stop this 88% of energy produced by fossil fuels, especially the part where oil is involved where there are not really many substitutes because that is transportation, getting the food into the stores. hydroelectric is the most effective cause of affordable energy. they are against it. it adds up to about 85% of all the renewable energy in the world and they are against it even though it is reliable,, etc. -- cost-effective, etc. thankfully, we buy enough flatscreen tvs that they can afford to build it without the world bank and they did. [laughter] it replaces 40 coal-fired power plants if you're worried about emissions from coal plants. it stops floods from killing nuns of people downstream. and it allows them to irrigate twice as much land. this is a sustainable development. [applause] in canada, we get 60% of our energy from hydro. when the oil and coal and gas become scarce, this is what we will have to use. there is no question of that in my mind. [applause] 21 countries producing 15%, this used nuclear food they want to dump in nevada is one of our most important future energy resources. the russians have two of them running on their caspian sea. they just sold two to china last year. but we've got lots of oil and oil and gas right now and it is cheaper than doing this so maybe it will take a while. but 300 years from now, all of the fission products in their pretty well will be decayed and then it will be just the good stuff left so it won't matter if it takes 300 years before we start using that. but there is 5000 years worth of nuclear energy in the 50 we years worth of waste, so-called, that we have produced. nuclear and hydro are the only resources that can effectively replace fossil. here is a cost-effective use of solar energy. to heat water, especially in sunny places. this is the wind energy. it is only in rich countries. these are things that will be left resting on the ground. here is what happens with wind energy. one day, you have 12,000 megawatts of energy. the next day, you have nothing. shut the schools, hospitals, office buildings? no, you started coal plant. as with -- this is what they are doing in germany. in the united states, because gas is replacing coal in some areas, co2 emissions have gone down steadily for the last five >> david cameron is going to be addressing the british parliament. rights they appear to be more interested in those residence -- >> they appear to be more interested in those residence than the ones from northern ireland. can't have it always. if they get the welfare bill through, they will benefit from the support that they get. i support what he just said. it is time for them to get on and do what elected government has been elected to do. >> with the minister be able to give an update on when the no -- when the moratorium is going to be announced? we have been waiting for a report to come to the dwp. >> let me address the right honorable friend as soon as i leave the house and give the full details. >> statement, the prime minister. [crowd murmurs] >> i would like to make a statement on the council and the measures taken to defeat extremism and keep the country safe. on the council, we agreed that poland's prime minister should serve as the next prime minister. the italian prime minister should become the next high representative for security policy. in an acceptance speech they placed a high priority on reddish concerns and i look forward to working with him. mr. speaker, the council spent most of their time focusing on the big international issues that concerned us all this summer. the situations in ukraine, gaza, and the growing threat of isil in iraq and syria. the presence of russian soldiers on ukrainian soil is unjustified and unacceptable. [crowd agrees] has support, the president agreed to address the council. the real problem is the refusal of russia to recognize ukrainian independence and sovereignty. appears to be trying to force ukraine to abandon its choicesic chores is -- at the barrel of a gun. we have seen a dramatic stepping up of the funding of separatist, including russian troops on the ground -- separatists, including russian troops on the ground. the history of nationstates being threatened in this way. you cannot -- economic costs already impose on russia must he stepped up. the council was clear that new sanctions measures will be drawn up within a week. accept the suggestion the sanctions are not having an impact. capital has flown from russia. the russian stock markets have fallen significantly. mr. speaker, we have to show real resilience and resolve. thata needs to understand if they continue on their current path, their relationship with the rest of the world will be radically different in the future. gaza, weo israel and have all been deeply saddened by .he dreadful civilian suffering the government has worked with international partners to bring about a sustainable cease-fire. the loss of life this summer has been appalling and the number of civilian casualties has been unacceptable. the life of a palestinian child is worth the same as a child of any one of our nations. [murmurs of agreement] but this does not mean that we should ever support the terrorist tactics of hamas, who reigned rockets on israel and continually refuse to accept cease-fires. we will continue to support israel and its right to the defend itself, but that does not mean that we support every decision the israeli government takes. most recently the appropriation of 1000 acres of land near bethlehem is utterly deployable, illegal under international law, doing nothing to create the peace process we want to see, and we urge the israeli government to reverse this decision. [murmurs of agreement] i am deeply concerned by growing reports of anti-semitism on our own streets in britain. let me be clear, we must not tolerate this in our country. [murmurs of agreement] notice agreements on politics or policy should ever be able to justify extremism or prejudice in any form. turning to the terror threat in the u.k., we have been sickened by the barbarism that we witnessed in iraq the summer. the vicious persecution of religious minorities, like christians, and the enslavement and raping of women and the beheading of an american journalist, james foley, with the voice of what a peers to be on thath terrorists video -- a british terrorist on that video. the exportingof of terrorism in syria is a direct threat to every european country. -- country." on friday they increase the threat level in the united kingdom from substantial to severe. least 500 people have traveled from britain to fight in the region, in addition to 700 from france, 400 from germany, hundreds more from countries like canada, austria, theark, sweden, netherlands, and australia. the council agreed to coordinate in cracking down on those makingng to iraq and sure that all of us are taking steps to neutralize this radicalization. this poisonous extremism believes in the most regal forms of terrorism to force people to accept a warped worldview and live in a medieval state. hashould be clear that this nothing to do with islam, a peacefully of served religion by over one billion people, one that inspires countless acts of kind s every day there is. [murmurs of agreement] the present extremism, we need tough, patient, comprehensive approaches to defeat the threat at its source. use aid, diplomacy, and other resources at our disposal. we need a firm reaction when going after terrorist, cooperation on intelligence, uncompromising against the terrorists against -- at home. we support u.s. military airstrikes in iraq. and the united nations security council resolution disrupts the flows of finance to sanction those who are seeking to recruit and encourage countries to do all that they can to prevent foreign fighters from joining the cause. alongside the top security response, we need the correct political response. we know that these organizations thrive where there is instability. it must mean a political transition and an end to brutality. in iraq it must begin with a new and genuinely inclusive government, capable of uniting all iraqis against the shared threat. in wales will provide the opportunity for us to review the effectiveness of the international response so far and discuss what more we should do to help the region overcome threat. we will continue to look at what further roles are in our national interest. mr. speaker, let me turn to how we address the terrorist threat at home. we have re taken a wide range of measures, and stopping suspects from traveling -- we have already taken a wide range of measures, including stopping sex acts from traveling -- including stopping suspects from traveling to the united kingdom. and we are bringing forward emergency legislation, for instance, to safeguard our communications data. we have stepped up our operations response with a fivefold increase in syria ofated arrests, the removal 28,000 pieces of extremist material this year alone, including 46 isil related videos . i have said all along that there should not be a knee-jerk reaction or a sweeping of new powers that are reactionary. we want a targeted approach that on the a forensic focus threat that we face. are twove this there key areas where we need to strengthen powers to fill said -- to fill specific gaps in the armory. these are around preventing those from traveling and dealing with those who pose a risk. i want to mention them both reflate. first, stopping people from traveling in the earth lays. past orts are not an automatic right. the secretary has the discretion to refuse passports under the royal prerogative if there is reason to believe that people are planning to take art in terrorist related activities. -- take part in terrorist related activities. they only have limited stop and search powers. we are to introduce specific, targeted legislation to fill the ap by providing police with temporary power to seize the passport at the border, during the time in which they will be the to investigate individual concerned. mr. speaker, the house should also be aware that the current royal prerogative powers are being challenged in the courts. i want to be clear, if there is a judgment that threatens existing powers, we will introduce legislation immediately so that holliman, not the courts, can determine whether it is right that we have this hour. [murmurs of dissent] [murmurs of agreement] we will be of course consulting .arliament on the draft courses we must keep out foreign fighters who propose a threat to the u.k.. we already have them orton powers to block the return, stopping them returning on the basis of the threat they pose, along -- allowing stronger powers to strip citizenship or naturalized britons. these powers do not apply to those who are solely british nationals. some have said that we should deal with this gap i criminalizing travel to certain countries or fundamentally changing our burden of proof. it would be wrong to deal with this cap by fundamentally changing the core principles of our criminal system. it is abhorrent the people that declare allegiance elsewhere are able to return to the united kingdom and pose a threat to our national security. we are clear that what we need is a targeted discretionary power that allowed exclusion -- that allows exclusion in line with international obligations with details on a cross party basis. mr. speaker, we are putting long-standing arrangements on on a statutoryty footing. airlines will have to comply with no-fly list, u.s. information on passengers, and comply with security training -- screening. second, we need stronger powers provided bye risks suspected extremists already here. the home secretary can already measuresnvestigation on security grounds, including overnight requirements. the intelligence agencies and the police believe that they and theonger powers independent reviewer of counterterrorism legislation agrees. including stronger legislation complaints -- [shouts of dissent] all through the relocation powers. dealing with this terrorist threat is also about how we combat extremism in all of its forms. that is why we have a new approach to tackling this, focusing on all extremism, not just violent extremism. [murmurs of dissent] this includes stopping the funding of extremist organizations as showing that every part of government, from school to university and prisons are all focused on beating the scourge of extremism. as part of this, when i am putting out the radicalization program, anyone subject to our strengthened investigation will be required to engage in the program. be speaker, we are proud to an open, free, and tolerant nation, but the tolerance must never be confused with a passive acceptance of cultures living separate lives or people that he haven ways that run counter to our values. adhering reddish values is not an option or a choice, it is a duty for all those who live in these island's. hisill, in the end, defeat extremism and to secure our way of life for generations -- defeat this extremism and secure our way of life to generations to come. [murmurs of dissent] [murmurs of agreement] >> edmund levan -- ed miller iban. me take the opportunity, through the appointment of a new council representative, to commend the excellent work of kathy ashman. [murmurs of dissent] [murmurs of agreement] leading the efforts to persuade iran to disband its nuclear program. she has served with distinction. [murmurs of agreement] to ukraine, we were all appalled by the shooting down of the airliner, but we need to face reality that we have seen no let up in russian aggression and incursion. if anything, the situation has gotten worse, not at her. ,t must be met with a rebuff coordinated, united international response. does the prime minister agree that now is the time to agree further sanctions, including in key areas like defense energy and financial services? putwhat plans can be forward to provide support to ukraine? on the situation in gaza, we deeply regret 2000 palestinians, including many children, including israeli soldiers and citizens, condemning their murderous rocket attacks, defending the right of israel. in thiseli response crisis could not be justified. annexation ofhe palestinian lands is deplorable. the truth is that history tells us that this appalling cycle of violence will simply continue unless there are meaningful negotiations towards the two state solution. can the prime minister tell us what steps he and the unit -- eu will be taking? i also join in and saying, what have you done in this conflict? we need to not excuse anti-semitism, wherever we find it. turning to syria, these grotesque acts of violence have shocked people across the country. it is a particular type of threat that cannot be ignored. --y threaten the deck democratic iraqis they -- iraqi state. the danger of the export of this ideology. at the same time, we must learn lessons from the event, including the 2003 war in iraq. that means being clear about our objective. the means to achieve them. always conscious of the needs of legitimate alliances beyond britain and the united states. we should support the airstrikes that protect innocent people at risk of isil. we believe it is right to provide military support to the kurdish efforts. as president obama has said, defeating isil cannot be achieved by military means alone. can i ask the prime minister some questions about that? first, there can be no defeat of isil without support in iraq, so what role is the eu playing in ensuring that the iraqi government insurers settlements that put an end to the years of exclusion for minorities? second, isil would not be the force that it is of other countries in the region had not overtly and covertly provided financial and other support. [murmurs of agreement] what happened -- what discussions has he had to make sure that bands need to be taken against isil and its ideology -- bans need to be taken against isil and its ideology. third, does he agree to any tactics regarding the active engagement of neighboring countries? i agree with the need for a political transition in syria, but how can this be achieved? given the approach i have talked about, how do you plan to use the chairmanship for the u.s. security council to build the alliance necessary? finally, the approach at home must have the same determination as overseas. shocked by these actions, people across britain were appalled that these citizens to park in the murderous activity. seen the horror that happens when extremist ideology turns the violence. i welcome the making of it being easier to seize parcels from those involved in the conflict. let me say, on the discretionary powers and excluding british country, itom the is unclear what you are proposing. can you give the house more information at this stage about what the proposals consist of? [murmurs of agreement] the most serious cases, where court convictions cannot be achieved, i welcome the recognition of the independent review on terrorism making clear that they will be kept, particularly the inability to relocate suspects away from their community. relocation was indeed a central part of control orders to get rid of them in the first lace. speaker,lso agree, mr. that we need a mandatory comprehensive program that is not just for those who are under, but those on the fringes of extremism? further, does he believe that we need to stop young people from being recruited in the first lace? i urge overhaul of the preventative program that has become overly focused on the police response and needs to have far more done with parents and community. we will work with the government to tackle the threats we face at home. the events of the summer have underlined how turning the back on the complexities of our world is not an option, but we must also show that written has learned his lessons about history with that of roche towards general multilateralism. if approached this way the government will have our support. >> thank you. i see to the opposition for the points that he made in the turns in which he made them. widespread, all party support for most of the issues today. first of all, he is right to praise cathy ashton, she has done an excellent job. and her job is not complete yet, we wish her well. on the ukraine and sanctions, he asked about whether we are looking at further central sanctions -- yes, we are. i think that what is important gaps that havehe been left so far. we need to make sure that we pressed them on things like syndicated loans. in terms of the support that we give to the ukraine, we give financial support, technical support -- there is obviously a partnership between the ukraine and nato. up exercisestaking in the western part of the ukraine and i don't and the right of roche would to arm them . i think we should focus support on the areas i have identified. the best thing we can do is build the alliance across europe , demonstrating to russia what the position of the world will be. of course, one of the things that we do is be one of the most important funders of the encourage the authority to restore its authority in a stepping stone towards further negotiations. there is no military solution , we need to learn the lessons of the past. i welcome his backing for what we are doing to resupply the kurds. we should continue to do that. he asked a series of questions. in terms of the pressure on reaching out to all parts of iraq i'm a we are part of solid international pressure to make sure that that happens. in terms of talking to the region to make sure that financial support is cut off for extremism, i have have those conversations with many over the summer. in terms of turkey we are working more closely with them than ever before on this issue. in terms of the measures at home, i am delighted he is going to support the measures for seizing passports as we reintroduce this legislation. i welcome all party discussions on discretionary powers to make sure that we correct the problems we have in a proper way. on the last two points, i think it is important that event is focused on counter radicalization. is focused on counter radicalization. i think it is important that we don't just target violent extremism. we cannot target the extremist andative from which the men women of violence draw succor. that is important. finally, on the issue of terrorist prevention control orders, let me what the advisers in their most recent reports -- there is no need to put the clock back, the majority of changes have civilized the control orders system without making it less effective, which is why we should take them and amend them as necessary. [shouts of dissent] >> sir peter cap so. >> does the prime minister recognize that one of the reasons there are misguided or dish fighting in arabia is because of the folly of those in the gulf and in the west, who first encouraged and then supported a sunni rebellion against the syrian aloe wipes -- alloites?s -- we must avoid intervening in a civil war that has lasted for 1300 years. [murmurs of agreement] on this occasion, i'm not sure that i read with him. i would argue that the rise of the islamic state of isis has had two principal causes. one, the brutality shown to his own people. second, the failure of the government in iraq to represent all of its people. i think it is those issues that togethero recognize, with the real problem, the islamist extremist narrative. by any source of conflict or weakness. >> mr. jack strong. >> the prime minister spoke about the need to build alliances in the region, including he said perhaps even with iran. they do have a nuclear dossier, but as he indicated we need iranian corporate -- cooperation more than ever. given that, what action has he taken? the emphasis has still not been fully reinstated. >> i greatly respect the right net -- the right honorable gentleman. we are cautiously re-engaging with iran. and he knows about the steps time, which will lead over to the rest of it. but we should do so cautiously, knowing the history of the country and what it has done, including support for terrorist organizations. what is most required is an iraqi government that represents all of its people. those who have been most excluded lately have been the sunni population. of we need the assistance other countries to make sure this comes about. >> mr. campbell. some of the reports from over the weekend suggested -- [murmurs of dissent] united kingdom nationals from the united kingdom. expressing doubts as to whether that would be legal, not least of which being our international obligations into treaties and conventions. additionally, hardly anything has been dated about the practicality of such a proposal. who would decide? appropriate?eal be in most circumstances a great deal of work would need to be done. he is right, we should not be tearing up international obligations to bring this about. the point i am making is that as we stand today we are able to deal with, for instance, foreign nationals who want to return to britain. we can deal with dual nationals by taking away their rich asked her. these represent -- they have the edge allegiance to another state and there is a gap, >> cat i support airstrikes on isis to stop its genocidal andcks in the region particularly against shia muslims and kurds and minorities , but there should be no question of british troops on the ground, obviously. we do need to support the kurds particularly in providing the materials they need. helpboring nations need to get to the solution and could he press the saudi's to stop funding medieval barbarism by isis and could he get a ran and turkey to invade as well? finally, mr. speaker, could he onedule a full day's debate foreign policy? the world is a very dangerous place at the moment, including between russia and ukraine. we need to have a proper debate. >> on the last point about a full debate, we are looking at that. i think it would be worthwhile if time could be found. i very much agree with the tenor of what he says which is what we should be looking to do here is asking how can we best help iraqion the ground, the government, the kurdish forces who are doing their best to prevent humanitarian catastrophes and make sure islamic state is properly addressed in iraq. how can we help rather than thinking the west can somehow lead and overtake an intervention. that i agree there should be no question of british combat troops on the ground. the very much agree with prime minister on the nature of the extremist threat we face. but there have been repeated calls for a coalition of the willing. thatuld have seen reports egypt in the uae carried out attacks on the minister in libya. they wouldy sign join together militarily to cooperate in combating isis? think mying on, i right old friends contribution is along the same line, that we should be there to help those on the ground who want to get the right outcome rather than thinking we can magic a solution on our own. when you look at the attitude of the jordanians and others, they recognize the huge threat butmic state threatens them also threatens us. i think our approach should be about helping the kurds entered radiance and all those working together who can address the threat. theast july, myself and honorable numbers came to the radicalization task force and asked for two things. toask for further action expose the pointless ideology of these extremists and secondly, we ask for more support for muslim communities themselves to be able to challenge these messages so the next generation of young people don't end up in the hands of extremists. mr. speaker, i am disappointment that the statement today has very little today about either of those issues. i'm sure the prime minister has further proposals and i would very much like to see them. i am disappointed she is disappointed because when it comes to this issue of countering extremist narratives, there are few people in this house with who i agree more than the right honorable lady. if you look at what the extremist task force achieved in terms of countering radicalization prisons, campuses, schools and working with muslim organizations themselves that want to deal with this problem, and giving them legal assistance when it comes to throwing the extremists out of mosques or community centers, all of those things are happening. but i look to see what more can be done. may i congratulate my right honorable friend on the broad trust of his statement, that i do share the concerns expressed about the suggestion that risch nationals, however horribly they may be alleged to have behaved should be prevented from returning to this country. offendy does it principles of international law, it offends basic principles of our own common-law as well. i would recommend the best course must be to bring these individuals to justice. quitectually been successful at doing just that over the course of the last nine months. >> my right old friend is absolutely right. the first approach we should be taking is trying to prosecute and convict people in our own country. successful,ave been the police and intelligence sources have been successful. the most important thing is to make sure it was thing to the intelligence services and police that any caps on the armory are properly addressed, and that is why we are looking at the terrorism prevention investigation measures and looking at this passport confiscation measure. on this issue of return, it's important we discuss that as well. if the current u.k. security alleged byas dire as the government, with the prime minister give us some comfort i reversing the 400 -- the 5000 job cuts when any border agency. >> this government has prioritize resources into those agencies that are most at risk in terms of combating terrorism. fundingook at the settlement for security agencies, it has been generously compared with other organizations. i'm very happy with the pressures that we face to look if more is needed, i'm sure more can be found because nothing matters more than this. let me say to the right old gentleman that there are suspicions when politicians stand up and talk about the threats we face to our nation. the joint terrorism assessment center is the body that independently decides the level of threats they sing this country and they decided, because of what is happening in iraq and syria, not just isis, but the other al qaeda offshoot as well, and the number of people traveling to that region from britain and elsewhere, it was right to raise the level from substantial to severe. >> dr. liam fox. let's get my right honorable friend ellis what discussions he said with other leaders about isil oil,he sale of stopping the international banking station -- international banking system from stopping the l and supporting u.s. military airstrikes on their positions. >> verse point my friend makes is absolutely right -- those are things we should receive. we should publicize more the isil makes a lot of money selling oil to president assad. that is something that demonstrates the character of these people. engagement inr the efforts being made, we have brought to bear our diplomatic them legal and other tools in our armory. we have also used our military. they have been delivering aid in iraq and providing surveillance and other capabilities that are helping the americans. we support american airstrikes. we think they are right. that has been our approach to date. question howg the can we in britain best pursue our national interest keeping our country safe and helping those people on the ground doing isil.ost to combat >> the prime minister has pledged we will stand up for our values. can he explain how it is compatible with our values and tackled islamist extremism to continue to sell arms like -- to countries like saudi arabia, which is the most significant source of funding to extremist groups worldwide. >> we has some of the toughest rules on arms exports on any country anywhere in the world and they are subject to the rule of law. arabia, we saudi would take a very different view to many of the rules and regulations, but it is true to say the saudi authorities have changed their approach in terms of radicalization around the world. british terrorists from returning to the united kingdom -- has my honorable friend -- honorable friend in brief that under domestic legislation, certain countries may render that person stateless under article eight when a person acts inconsistently with the duty of loyalty and behave the way prejudicial to the state or declares allegiance to another state and shows repudiation of allegiance. isn't that exactly where we are now and it would be extremely portman that the general and understands the matter can be made clear? >> i think my honorable friend makes a very good point and that's why we need to discuss and examine this issue further. where i think everyone will want us to examine this is that it sticks in the crawl, the idea somebody can go to syria, declare jihad, make all sorts of plans to start doing us damage and then britainate returning to having declared allegiance with another state. that is the problem we need to address in my honorable friend will be useful in doing so. >> does the right honorable gentleman recall that when he made his radius statement on couldi said the israelis kill but they could not win. later, after 2000 palestinians, including 500 children have been killed by the israelis together with an enormous amount of physical damage which makes life in the gaza strip next to impossible, what will the government do to prevent a further attack on gaza , which will come at some time ?r another if not stopped will he impose an arms ban on israel? >> what we must do is convince everyone that it's worth while to have a negotiated solution to the underlying fustian which is the need or a palestinian state. in order to do that, we need to persuade the israelis to make it a greater priority and that would be the true are rude to security. he also need to persuade the palestinians and those who have supported hamas that terrorist attacks on israel, rocket attacks on israel will not bring palestinian statehood closer. my right honorable friend is right, to protect the united kingdom against the threat it faces. is byst immediate threat the states around isis he finds their borders have been dissolved and they will bear the brunt of the need to protect innocent civilians. but we can help then there are those who are bearing a burden even now. friend tell the house whether he's received a specific by the kurdishms directly or through the eu. has he responded and how will the government respond? for my rightful old friends question. what we have received his request from the kurds to facilitate the transfer and transport of arms an invitation from jordan and from albania to the kurdish regional authorities. specificaware of a request to directly from the kurdish regional authorities, but we would look on that very favorably. they are our allies and friends and we believe they are help in il and the pressure on is to defend the communities. we want them to be part of a future iraq and we take a very positive view. >> the german chancellor has decided it's in germany's national interest to provide the kurds with arms. could the prime minister tell me when it would not the in written's national interest to do so or what would be required to change his mind? >> i don't think there's any difference between what the german chancellor is saying and what i am saying. if the kurds were to make a specific request, we would look favorably because we think they need to be top early armed and equipped to deal with the threat they face. the european union has failed to adequately respond to russia's flagrant aggression in ukraine, not even stopping the imminent deliver early of assault ships to russia. doesn't the nato summit need to offer stronger symbol and those amphibious assault vehicles to nato and not russia? >> that is an interesting suggestion which i can take on board. it is not easy to get 28 countries around the table to agree on sanctions and try to do that at the same time as the united states of america. but bd

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