Transcripts For CSPAN Countering Violent Extremism Part 2 20170807

This afternoon because this is my area of concentration and focus. Prisons, criminal justice. We had scholars here. Real scholars. Isnt that interesting . Guess what . They are muslim. Amazing. I think god for the opportunity, just for me being here. Before i introduce panelists, just a couple of thing. What do you call them, housekeeping notes . You will have some q a cards on the table, and we ask as we move that youthe panel, post your questions and write a but ace, not a paragraph, sentence on the cards. The cards will be collected. Hand it to me. I will then read the question or the statement. Does that work . Then refer it to the panelists. Does that work . Ive been in the criminal justice business for 47 years. Spent most of my time in corrections. Introduction to slims, was a case called full wood versus klamath. It had to do with the Police Chiefs brother who was incarcerated at the lard and reformatory. Reformatory. The issue was the right to practice his religion, which was islam. Court, as i indicated earlier, wrote in his favor and then the balls started to roll. Its been my experience that , theys who are in prison have been the most disciplined, motivated, and keepers of the peace. Not only that, theyve always been at the forefront of prison and jail reform. Inside jails and prisons and outside jails and prisons. A lack theres been such of information about what goes on that people have this false notion that they are at war inside the prison. Thats an untruth. Muslims were the most progressives inmates ive ever worked with. Ive always been honored and proud to work with them. Know, the population and prisons is normally traumatized, undereducated, angry, looking for a cause. As a result of their seeking becomeuse, prisons have ripe territory for recruiters for terrorist activities. Just think about that. And thats just now beginning to really happen. I read a report the other day that the corrections director had written. He talked about how they were with disruptive elements in the Muslim Community. Becauseay off base those who were involved were not being disruptive, they were educating the total population about what islam was all about. They are really peaceloving people. We listened and read all of this unfortunate information. It comes out of certain houses, all right . I wont tell you what color the house is. Need not do that because you already know. In addition to mass media, electronic, and prints. So what we hope to do today is to kind of educate you, familiarize you, as to what the real deal is. What the real deal is. And, from there, we are really considering taking all of this stuff on the road. To show the country. Country whats really going on with the muslim family. I guess im the only nonmuslim up here, huh . And i feel so comfortable. [laughter] i really do. But god is good. Having said all of that from my notes, i want to stay on target and on time. Baker. Dr. Thats my english friend from london. Dr. Ingram kenneth the second, who says hes not quite there with the doctoral. Your honorary. And then my good friend joe from houston, texas. I told him, we dont address like that in texas, man. You have the wrong stuff on, man. Boots, hat. On a serious note, i ask that you tune in, listen, and become. Ducated. O having said that, dr. Baker i volunteered. Doctor volunteered me in the last one. All right, majority rules. I want to thank all of you for attending today and the group for putting this together at the museum and the museum for hosting the event, and my for what doe we call it . Eatbeats me. Moderating. Youve been americanized. Yes. Today we are supposed to be talking about radicalization in the prison system, is a hotbed for radicalization or reform, what is the role it is going to play in preventing radicalization and reforming people that may be incarcerated or prone to recidivism along those lines. What id like to speak to you about our three main issues. Number one, how legitimate is that radicalization is rampant in the u. S. Prison system. Number two, what challenges does a involvement post to the deradicalization, and how can muslim believes be a positive tool for change and reform of prisoners in prisons russian mark when we are discussing about the issues of radicalization, its important first to challenge the notion of its existence. Im asking as a nonspecialist in that area, i dont have the Empirical Data, but is there significant Empirical Data that is being provided by those making claims that radicalization is happening at a rampant rate in the u. S. Prison system . Said, there is susceptibility. But is it actually happening . Thats the question we have to ask, we cannot just answer in the affirmative based upon biases that we carry about people who are incarcerated, about muslims, or the nature of islam, or any other minority faith group in the united states. Further claim like this is to malign a community, and is not only bad character, but bad policy. Without sayinggo that assumptions about radicalization play heavily into prevailing prejudices in the american psyche. Whether those be racebased prejudices as member members of an ethnicity being predisposed to criminal intent in action or religionbased prejudice functioning the same way. Many times these two prejudices are intertwined, islam is seen as the reason for extremism among many minority groups and minority groups are seen as sympathetic to what is labeled as extremism in the minds of majority members of society majoritarian members of society. Ofessence, this line thought, ray religionbased prejudice, attempts to pin the causes of extremism and radicalization on something outside of an foreign to the american cultural psyche, namely judeochristian, civilized, and of european background. The racialized tones of many of the discussions on this issue lend credence to this. My comments here today will not focus on the particle data and instead, 400 been the case i would be speaking to you not in my role as a member of the American Muslim Community or a thought leader in that community, but instead as a member of one democratic the data has shown his most predisposed to violent extremism and homegrown terror, namely middleaged, white, american males. What i do want to talk to you today about, im on my comments will focus on, are the epistemological challenges of those who have to straddle what seemed to be competing value systems. The values of freedom of religion, speech, and expression. The value of reasonable accommodation for those who are incarcerated. On one side, we have these values. On the other side, we have religious affiliations, ideologies and believes that may be imposed or seem to be opposed at times, to the system that seeks to protect it. American and this is not my belief if i were to say that i believe it is wrong for any american to have access to a firearm regardless of what type it is. Which goeselief against a core constitutionally protected right. However, my dancing this belief does not forfeit my right to be protected by all of those other Constitutional Rights that are afforded to me. Is question then becomes, protecting beliefs and values that are not normative or not popular, if we do so, are we in some sense going against our own values in favor of another value system . Those who we see as conservative or extreme, when we protect their rights to hold those beliefs and practice those beliefs within the confines of mean we law, does that are enabling illicit practices or endangering the American Public . Additionally, is it appropriate for us to label those we see as conservative austere or beyond our own scope of practice as something which is extreme or veers off towards the path of radicalization . When such labeling becomes a matter of policy, this is where the problem grows. Of the a danger government exceeding its boundaries and going beyond mere religious accommodation to religious dictation, dictating to any individual or any Group Believes andd or practices that are considered legitimate or a legitimate form of that faith. If you solely through lens of National Security, it would seem to make sense to challenge the ideas lead to radicalization. I think we can agree that those do need to be challenged. But when the assumption is that radicalization, especially when the assumption is radicalization effectively counters terrorism and protect the American Public. Why shouldnt government officials try to marginalize what they view as theology cited by violent extremists, one that poses a danger not only to individuals, but to society at large . The problem is that when governments attempt to dictate to anyone their religious beliefs, they create a myriad of strategic tensions. For the practitioner of that religion that is targeted by that government, this governmentsponsored religion appears to be a faith which is foreign to their own, and one that they do not recognize. And in the context of the broader Muslim Community, it appears the government is playing favorite and rereading their religion through National Security context, dictating to them what is and is not acceptable. This would contravene the basic rights enshrined in the constitution that everyone, regardless of faith, expects to be afforded to them under law. Exacerbated when the target populations that make up the majority of muslim communities come from backgrounds where the expectations from government is that they intervene, to the detriment of the individual. Whether it be the historical memories of programs like oh intel pro or the security apparatuses of foreign government, persecuting even the most basic performance of faith such as prayer in the mosque has happened in many muslim majority countries, u. S. Government programs that seek to dictate to muslims what their beliefs are or should be will naturally cause mistrust and inadvertently push people away and towards radicalism, not away from it. Even in direct influence into the communitys thought process can be seen as and sometimes its trade programs that seek to coopt leadership in the Muslim Community, such as prevent for the purpose of combating radicalization, will oftentimes have the opposite effect. When the individuals and represent religious authority in the community are seen as we cannot compromise, expect those who would lean towards radical beliefs to confide in them and to reform their ideas. We certainly cant expect them to stay away, as they will consistently tried to mend from what they see as a compromise villages ideal. By expecting a breach of confidentiality from pastors, imams, chaplains, and those who work in religious functions in muslim communities, we compromise the effectiveness of religious authority to be a positive force in deradicalization. Solution in my humble opinion lies in not just creating institution and initiatives that are grounded in faith, socially relevant and legally viable, but in reevaluating what it means to have religious leadership, who really is an imam, who is a chaplain, what authority do they have an who speaks for islam, what sort of faith do we have in our texts and what sort of trust to we have in those entrusted to interpret it. Questiont answer this as a Muslim Community and instead allow ourselves to interpret it, how are our personal interpretations or the interpretations of a government more authoritative or valid than those of others. Here i feel its important to mention as well the muslim communities themselves cannot only denounce radical beliefs, but they must see themselves as partners and be seen as partners by organizations and government authorities that want to work the them to combat coopting of their beliefs for any purpose, whether that be for National Security assumptions, or to promote extreme accident will damage society. As a whole, at home or abroad. The question then is, how can muslim beliefs be used for positive change and reform of people prone to radicalization . With regards to National Security interests, government policy, the policies of correctional institutions, what is needed is an open door policy for religiously affiliated or qualified individuals to be able to counsel, teach, and advise incarcerated individuals that may be susceptible to radicalization. With regards to chaplains and those working in the rehabilitation prisoners, theology of personal choice, and theology of personal importantlity, is that that be inculcated in them and almost all those under their supervision, this means that the basic leaves of islam are taught to those individuals in a fashion that does not play into the tropes of anyone radical a store extreme group. Chaplains and other individuals as well as laypeople themselves may subscribe to a more conservative or liberal point of view about their own faith, but we have to recognize that it is not one individual perspective of religion, whether that the islam or any other religion, that is susceptible to being coopted by radical or extremist. Weve seen in two years how versions of sunni islam, how shia islam, and even sufi islam in the events that occurred in turkey, have shown us that regardless of religious orientation, each of these groups may be coopted for political purposes. One of the hallmarks of radical is to believe is their tendency to engage in groupthink, and engage in their own prison autonomy and ability to make their own decisions, instead demanding from them. Medic, rote application of the groups ideals. Is imperative for any chaplain or teacher of those susceptible to radicalization to present the general precepts of islam and how first and foremost every individual believer be held accountable for their actions and their beliefs. In several verses of the koran the idea of personal responsibility is reiterated. Every soul shall be accountable for what it earns, says one firstrate another, no soul shall bear the burden of another. Every soul should be concerned with itself on the day of judgment. In one prophetic tradition, a Maggie Malone the desert and as the Prophet Muhammad if he only prayed his prayers and fasted is fast and give to charity and did the basics of islam, yes whether he would enter paris paradise. The props that yes. When he left, the prophet turned to his companions and said, if he is true to his word, that he will indeed enter paradise. In another tradition, the prophet said the muslim is the one who people are safe from his tongue and his hands. The believer is the one whom people are secure from. And the immigrant is the one who migrated away from sinfulness. In another tradition, he says with whomlls a person they have a social contract, they will not smell the scent of paradise even though its sent can be smelled from a distance of 70 autumns. Related asto whats a point of historical memory, or points of consensus in early muslim scholarship is important areell, so that those who susceptible to radicalization can see that the ideas of being civic or having civic duty and personal responsibility have primacy not only an islamic texts but have been upheld as ideals from the earliest muslim generations. Inculcating in people the ability to make informed religious choices, and that they are religiously motivated practices be made consciously by themselves. Thee who are susceptible to must be taught that the ultimate responsibility of each and every one of them falls upon themselves to ensure both their personal and public safety. Teaching a muslim individual, whether incarcerated or not, that they have a civic duty towards their fellow man and a personal responsibility to fulfill that duty. Duty is paramount. It will only be through the teaching of islamic believes that will create a sense of identity in the religiously practicing individual, that they will be protected from possible radicalization. What this does is it creates in the minds of the practicing believer that their personal private practice does not and should not dictate the minimum of public religiosity. Mayhile i as an individual be more conservative or more austere in my approach and practice of religion, im not expected, nor should i force that upon the public. In fact, when im expected to do as a religious practitioner is to guarantee for the public their personal safety for myself and from anyone who would want to do them harm. By encouraging those susceptible, take personal responsibility for their actions and pairing those actions with being held accountable by god himself without any help and assistance from those, along with prophetic traditions we mentioned, those working in the service and education of incarcerated individuals can be the preventative cure to any lapses in judgment and possible engagement with radicalized groups. And to sum up, my long runon sentence to you all, charges that radicalization is a problem, specifically charges that radicalization to islamic extremism is a problem, need to be substantiated with hard numbers so they are not used as a tool for propaganda seeking to marginalize muslims both inside and outside of prisons prayed when government officials attempt to dictate religious beliefs, they create a myriad of strategic and legal tensions, contravening both American Values and jeopardizing and or reversing the desired effects of deradicalization. This pitfall can be avoided by governmental agencies partnering expertise necessary for positive change and reform of and those inclined to radicalization. Communityerts, and leaders can affect positive change by encouraging theologically grounded concepts of personal responsibility, civic duty, and accountability to god, enabling those individuals to take personal agency in their religiously motivated practices. Thank you very much. Thats all i have to say. [applause] thank you, joe. Thank you very much. What we are continuing now is education. We need to focus on the politicians. Leaders, community leaders, the whole family as to what this is really all about. In the name of allah, the all merciful, the bestower of mercy. The world of incarceration is an interesting one. We have people in our societies that commit crimes. Then when we believe we have the right person, we then put them away in a prison system. Hopefully we got the right person. Ist is consistent though that these people, the population of the people that they are stored away for years on end, and what we dont always is that at that time this population of people, they will become returning citizens. They will be coming back into society. So, at the point that we realize that, it raises two questions. How will thiss, person be when they come back into society . And for all these years we store them away, what was their developmental process to that period of time they were away . This,en you think about if a person is successful when they come back into society, a lot of that has to do with the support that they receive when they come back out into society. Has toarger part of that do with how they were being cultivated more they were being incarcerated. So, we returned back to this point, so we can discuss this a little bit further. When you look at the prison system, from a theological basis, and the inmate populations within the prison systems, if i interesting things. You learn a lot. Things you didnt know existed that people take essay thing. Things such as onanism, odinism, people of the black messiah, the wiccan faith group, native American Heritage and spent 12 acre you learn things. But amongst everyone who is present, the largest population is the people who ascribe to the christian faith. Thats a largest population. Second to them, what is pretty consistent after that would be muslims. Now, in this state, we currently have about upwards of 20,000 people that are incarcerated. Now, was interesting with this, and i need you all to work with me a little bit. Was interesting with this is that the world of incarceration is not the real world. And the rules to function when one is incarcerated are not necessarily the rules that you and i are operating by. Veryin many ways a survival is thick atmosphere at times. And we place people in this environment, and its also a ,ery authoritative environment and a lot of control is taken away from these peoples gore incarcerated. So people who are incarcerated. You throw all that in the pot, and you have people that become very susceptible to being antigovernment, this, we should mention a brief story. Ago, i had ars an agent of the federal bureau of investigations at my home. We had a bit of a debate and a discussion. The theory that they were operating with at the time was who isperson incarcerated and is muslimamerican and is further then further ascribes when someone categorizes this person equates to terrorism. We have that discussion and debate. I believe i won that debate. We need to say this. On the grounds, realtime, in the prison system, you do not commonly find people who ascribe islam ideology. You dont find people who they ascribe themselves to isis, lets say. You dont find that. That is not really there and that type of way. The prison system is not producing terrorists in that way. Radicalization . Is their extremism . Yes, that exists. Nature ofrt of the what the prison system breeds because it is a very survival listed type of atmosphere s urvivalistic atmosphere. For the a tendency people who are being held there to see things in terms of lack and white. Some things you might get great, but you wont get a Broad Spectrum of color in their thinking and decisionmaking process. There is Something Else we want that is being pot stewed. It is the direction of the prison system at current. Enough, youck far go back into the late 1800s, a ocus was on pedal penalization and punishment. Of point, it wasnt even lawful for them to speak to each other even when they were working. Go forward into the 60s and it became rehabilitative. That stressed out that stretched out until the 80s or so with the war on drugs. That shifted. It is not so much focused on rehabilitation anymore. We think it is. Ourselvesgh to make feel like maybe there is rehabilitation going on there. There are some programs presence aret many of the programs not relevant is, not properly funded. Why would we put money into the people who are harming us in doing a disservice to our society . All of that, when they come out, you may have a problem. They may not be able to integrate properly back into society. Along with this, to add to the point about not really finding terrorist ascribe to ,roups in prison as the norm prisons are like a quarantine from the perspective of the held. Mate being they operate almost 20 years in the past. When they are in their circles , it is commonng they are using chalk on boards and paper and some people who dont even know how to utilize a computer. Connecting thats the point or much of the extremism is coming by way of the internet. That. Ont have access to foreign ideas entering to it because it is quarantined. But, because of the nature of they are verytem, susceptible to extremist ideas and behavior. People thatave are being incarcerated into our system who do ascribed to such ideologies. They are coming in. It is very feasible that without the proper development, without the proper programs, without the proper access, they can be easily convinced that these people and institutions and the government that puts these institutions into place that have you here for so long in your life has been taken away, see, there is a problem. This is our solution to the problem. Who areects both people muslim and nonmuslim in the prison system. Throughout the prison system, muslim is the second largest faith. And their influence in this fashion and islam continues to ideologies extremist may also spread along with that throughout the prison system. What i am saying is we have to get on thew forefront of this and get ahead of it by getting into these prison systems and reaching the inmate populations. By bringing them up today and properly educating and developing them concerning extremism and concerning misinterpretations of islam so that they can be properly equipped to understand what is anyg on and to deflect doubtful matters that may be presented to them. Then as months and years, they come back into society, we may actually have. Ealtime homebred terrorists these are the thoughts i have to offer as a premise to open up our minds and get us thinking a little bit. Thank you. [applause] eaten . L have the let us stir up the pot a little bit. As we think about corrections, correction discovered by public policy. Public policy leads to revenue, money. As i heard him speak, he is talking about improving conditions and corrections from a humane standpoint. Standpoint. That is something we usually miss. Along with that continuing threat to educate people. There is and should be an effort to educate correctional leaders because they really sets policy. They need to know and understand who they are setting policy for. They dont have a clue. There are only three persons of color who run a doll correctional systems in america adult correctional systems in america. You see ahing whole different operation. This drives this stuff. City councilman, lets is, governors. They control this. As a result, people are angrier. They are already angry, but you can them in these harder conditions and they become vulnerable. Whoever makes it sound good, that is where they are going to go. Now, we come to the honorable, dr. Wonderful, the blessed baker. Thank you. I want to revisit some of the looked atthose before. It is necessary to do that. I think following along from joe lectures,gram, their one of the important things the ou haves need to do y seen this particular framework ive used we need to identify the stages of the development of the inmates as they are going into these institutions. Why . Because it is likely they are going to replicate at the microcosmic level the very communities they come from. We see it with the gangs. The gangs gravitate toward their colleagues in the gangs, and their particular codes and ethics they adhere to. I know from a british context, when they go into prison, they gravitate toward those of likeminded ideology, culture, and background. Dont, they are coming into an arena of it nonmuslims who converts or muslim to come from a generality of communities. Very vulnerable and susceptible. I wrote an article that was written in english and produced in turkish. Been hearing from joe and dr. Ingram are concerns because the statutory of institutions have muslims coming in. They are going to place them in categories that they are comfortable with. This is potentially disastrous. Not just the clothes they wear, but understanding their religious direction and underpinning. Do they come from any of these communities . Frameworkok at the for the communities and the dichotomies that are existing within those. Once you have identified that, you have to ask yourself, is that also taking place outside and inside. Of how theyntion come out of prison. Still within the same community they were in before . Do you have to relocate . Have we equipped them . Many of the individuals from the uks who were released from prison ended up back in prison withse they cannot cope what was outside. They were told go back to your community and familiarize yourself, that is where the radicalization was, or they move them to different environments and they couldnt cope or adjust because it was an alien environments for them. This was the framework that i developed during my phd studies, and i adapted that from an altogether different fields of research. Management, the lifecycle of organization. I to that and adopted it to see if i can check that regarding converts and muslims returning to islam. The founding stage is a very new developing stage for an individual. They are very susceptible and vulnerable at that stage because they lacked knowledge. What they have is religious figure vigor. What they have is a motion. Their knowledge is gone from abstract understanding. They havent experienced what they are learning. If you look at many of those who have gone to syria, iraq, the shoe bombers, and you listen to their rhetoric in court, you will see it is overzealous. You will seem misplaced understandings of the religion. These particular areas are highly politicized. When inmates are coming into prison, do we even know what stage there out when they come in . Do we know these stages . If we capture them and i dont mean literally chain we are able if to engage them at the stage and provide them with a context of learning, then we are starting in the right direction and is not just for muslims. This is for the institutions themselves. We go back to what we mentioned earlier. If there is this partnership, these discussions can take place. Experts can come in and take time to determine where these muslims are. Theant to move them to mature and adult stage were actualization takes place. There in a practicing their religion and tenets of their faith from practice and understanding and experience, not from abstract dvds, youtube, a context that is altogether different because it is coming from a different part of the world. They are able to contextualize, but we need to Work Together institutionally to move them in that direction and not place them into categories that sue our system. Suit the last framework you saw him was quite a basic, rudimentary framework. There are some people who that resonates with. Was are detailed one, third adaptation. The reason i developed a this is because you have an issue. We talked about susceptible inmates. Leave her that for my two we have heard that from my two colleagues. Study,was doing my case i did a study on one person. I couldnt fit him into the previous slide. It was either to descriptive or two basic. I wouldnt fit him in that at all or mature phase either because of the nature of his propaganda. I couldnt fit him into the category. I thought when i sat with my professors they would say your phd is incomplete. So i searched and searched to solve the problem. I was able to develop what you see at the bottom there with regards to abstract understandings and actualizing. I was then able to place f ividuals at the youthful phase. Hewitt is provided information where he couldnt place himself he was provided information where he couldnt place himself. He went and studied in a muslim country, but his actualization was distorted. I talk about the propagators as they enter the institutions. We said were going to spice it up a little, and i will give you an example. Andndividual was in prison, they placed hi beside one of thesem extremists while he was in there. Just before the individual was to be released, i was abroad and received a phone call from the police. They told me we have got intelligence that this individual is going to be released very shortly and he has been discussing the assassination of two individuals. When i got the phone call, i was surprised and i wondered how that could have taken place and with them knowing how they had an inability that this individual was going to be and coming to the community with them though level of the threat. Them knowing the level of the threat. When the individual came out, some of them knew him and engaged with him. I want to move to a different stage to show you what is required when engaging with extremists and their followers and their foot soldiers. There are very few communities that show the bravery or the coverage to deal with this. What do we do . We let the individual come back to our community. The individual to part of my part in mytook program. I spent time with him privately aware of what came to me from the intelligence. And another part, the intelligence has to be accurate. If we respond to what is given to us in every instance, we could find the problem. Reliedslim community, we on our own intelligence among our colleagues. Those who are in prison and those who were out of prison gave feedback, which enabled this to take place. Inot him working voluntarily my organization and he told me, do you know the information and where it comes from . The individual contacted me in tears and said i will never harm you. Had that been the intention from , but due to the engagement, this is for you for people like you. If you fit people in these boxes and categories, muslims are nonmuslims, we give them no room for development. We stereotype them. We are seeing this happening in black communities, minority communities. In the u k and elsewhere. When we put them in the little boxes because we can deal with those boxes, there is no room for progress for those individuals. Many of those will say if this is the category i am placed in, i will act of four and play that part and they will do it very well. Understanding these stages of development is essential for institutions at an institutional level. In order to address some of the issues from what you heard here. That therelude this, is a level there and if you have time please take a look at them. About how the most rudimentary of understanding needs to progress to a level of wisdom were individuality, where responsibility is taken on by the individual. Responsibility for their own actions. They process it in an environment where they are entitled or provided with the amenities and utensils to do that very thing. We dont move them. , which about groupthink is a problem. If we are reinforcing groupthink and colton some because we are not cults because were not letting them act as individuals because category, someone finds offensive religiosity, many go into prison and become more practice in whatever faith it is. You might start praying five times a day. But we start becoming worried as an intelligence or security operators saying this individual is moving toward extremism. We have got to differentiate between ideological extremism and behavioral extremism. Behavioral extremism is subjective. Country, the beard might be seen as extreme. It is subjective. We cannot determine extremism based on outward appearance in particular modes of behavior. Establish there is an ideological line of ive mentioned , the divided this into a fourth category. The muslim world divided into three and made a fourth category and politicized it. When we hear individuals talking about that, the governments in the middle east it to be overthrown, then for it was the near enemy. Al qaeda said we need to go to the far enemy. The west. If we hear these types of leaf spring spouted, we can kill but we know that his ideological extremism. Aspects of the behavior are an analysis of that. The behavior by itself, institutions these be very careful when they see an increase in religiosity and they take that as indications and symbolism of extremism. This is very dangerous, and this tends to be happening in the u. K. Prisons. Im not sure if it is happening in u. S. Prisons, but we need to differentiate between those two. [applause] q a. The only issue is reading them. They write like you. I specialize in manuscript reading. Prescribedails are as a Networking Opportunities for people of likeminded ideology to make corrections. This and how to if true . T i i will say again. Often, jails are prescribed as a networking opportunity for people of like minded ideology nnections. Rrect this and how to prevent it is true . Is that correct . Thank you. Who wants it . I will talk from two examples. When we look at how isis forms in the prisons that they were seen we have seen emerging evidence that of likeminded individuals came together and that was the finishing school were isis emerged. Who got everything from individuals exchanging numbers and stitching them on the inside of their underwear and making sure they would be in contact with each other. There is evidence that points to what the gentleman is saying. And the u. K. , they had an issue with gravitation of individuals toward the extremists. Matter were they moved them to, they had gravitation toward them. Hence, they sent recently they are thinking of having a present within a prison where they will be isolated. Is that the intent . Obviously the institution will determine where the prisoners and inmates will be moved to. Understanding what were discussing here to prevent likeminded individuals coming to extremist nature. Ive already mentioned the microcosm of communities from the macro elements is there. That is not necessarily wrong in itself, especially from an extremist element we need to be very careful to avoid that. Some may say we need to the extremists against the Wider Community to make sure he or she does it instill the unsuspected and vulnerable individual in that instance. This is an institutional thing that causes that by default. , i am going to this jail. See you there. We do not determine where we are relocated. Institutionally, we need to have these mechanisms in place to ensure likeminded of extremist rhetoric and in position disposition, sorry are not. Anyone beside each other else not a stab at it . I would just like to add maybe two points. I do believe i understand the connotation of the question. I believe we should add a qualifier. The connotation is speaking though itpthink as has a negative connotation. Groupthink as an independent entity is not necessarily negative. All of us are here today because we have some similar line of thought in rectifying extremist ideology. Is that a negative thing . No. Does the highlight we need to qualify that. The second thing i would want to say is these people who are form of in this , it isst behavior base. Ogical in its ra over toof that, and solve it, not denying there are social, economic, political factors that may bring about these particular actions, the base itses at its ideological. Can approache who it added its base in the ideological arena. By default, the best people will be qualified to do so would be trainedwho are properly in the faith and in the orthodoxy of the faith and of the tradition of the faith in order to approach this properly. It should be approached ideologically from people qualified to engage it. The only thing i would add is recalling what you mentioned about policy. Speaking aboutut issues of radicalization or ideology, even for things as simple as petty theft and crime, the adage has always been people will go to prison to learn i will come out knowing hand. Han they had before we have no talked about the symptoms about what goes on after they have gone in, at the elephant in the room is that we are actually spending more in the united takes on prisons then we are in education. We have put more into the school to prison pipeline than we have to the school to college pipeline. Until we solve the problem, we will not solve the problem of ideological times or behavioral crimes unless we actually invest in all forms of education, starting at a very young age. Excellent point. There has been backlash in cve. Omery county against house your Program Different . Is there a particular program . I mean here . How is their Program Different . Pretty focusing one of their are you focusing on one of their programs . To be clear, cbe is focusing cve is extremism focusing on violent extremism. Before answering that question, i would definitely want to be more aware of the the program to do a crossreference. One of the reasons i am pleased to be part of this initiative is they have incorporated the best elements and built upon them regarding the radicalization. One of the elements that is maybe cves is the ability to respectively engage head on. Thehe ability inability to identify at the right time when radicalization is taking race or the threat or wirisk. And then having to talk to people on the ground operationally and those with insight to addressing target of radicalization. Way, this enables the individual to come back inconclusively to his or her environment. That is why ours is different from any other entity i know. I think when you mention competent individuals, what a lot of people dont know is it many of the standards for identifying extremists of have that havee tropes been reiterated. And a manual issued in the united states, it was copied many times over to many areas of prayer aty saying the mosque was an indicator of extremist behavior, which is quite frankly one of the most ridiculous things i have ever heard. Being in the Muslim Community i have never seen those people who are so adamant rephrasing political grievances actually being that invested in their religion. There is a marvel comic book that is written by one of the writers is a muslim. Marvel. Writer for miss she was an identity of the comic book world that passes onto people who are deemed worthy. A young pakistani girl in america is deemed worthy of being this marble and she turns into a superhero. There is a very interesting panel. The author is doing phenomenal work on his comic book. Isre is a panel where there an actual conversation with an individual who overtly looks religious. He is wearing a religious scarf, he has a beard, and hes being questioned. He says you are questioning me because i have my. Im going to pray. Caught foro has been terrorist acts have been going and bars any out of their girlfriends. They are not invested. The people invested in extremism are people were not involved in they dont want to be seen in over methods. Iat is one of the problems note with some of the manuals that are out there. They have focused too much on tropes instead of actually consulting with people that can focus on the ideological issues and solve those from the ground up. Role of an greatest individual in prison . Conversion networking,tion, and u. K. Ion, the u. S. Perspectives . Im going to have to leave this to you too. R converts, you agree were have reverts. U. K. U. S. An, on the situation a little bit more than i can. A kind of came from britain first. The premise is assuming the ed her from aresenting particular vantage point. The Conversion Rate is quite high. When you look at the psychological trauma, he or she is going to have a lot of reflection about their life. That, here she may change the direction from spiritual perspective. Research is there and talked about. This in an article he wrote. If it is from the premise that the individual wants to atone for this or they think they need to make a change of direction in their life, reversion or conversion is the road that they will take. Assuming another scenario that the individual is already a muslim and depending on the crime that they have been is it within the criminal Justice System and Bank Robberies or Something Like this . Offenses . Extremist the parameters are so why that cannot give a straight answer. There are many dynamics. Let us jump to the other scenario. If it is someone of the extremist, protagonist type. To convert others through their cause. They wont move away from that. When we see that particular type, 30s be a lot of checks and balances around the individual and the axis they uding nonthers, incl muslims. I know we have people in solitary confinement. I cant be for that. Academic, i am not a doctor in psychology so i cant talk about it. The u. K. Perspective, they seem to be following suit by one to build these prisons within prisons. You need to speak to experts in the field us to the likely consequences and affects on such who the news is effectively tightens around once the prison. He christ you mentioned the middleaged thats middleaged women are most prone to terrorism. What do you mean . Cvene of the problems of programs are focused on the Muslim Community and not other homegrown terrorist groups that have. Out terror attacks on americans of all different ideologies, sexual orientations, religions, background. Unfortunately, it is something that is, for the most part, swept under the rug. It is always assumed to be a lone wolf issue. Attributed to something in their upbringing. It is almost never attributed to their religion or political orientation. Their own radicalization online from rightwing or leftwing s that pull them in. There are several studies about , saying white men are susceptible to radicalization. There are studies at west point. Light oft is undue, in the best were only days away in minnesotace being firebombs. Were hearing almost nothing about it, although the government has come out to the , and saidhe media this was an active shearer. We have people who were murdered in the temple. This was hardly mentioned in line with domestic terror. It was always looked as crime. We what do we afford always a choice adjectives for those who we dont like. If we are going to be people who believe in American Values of ,airness and justice and equity then we should be Holding Everyone to the same standards. The studies are there and you can look them up. The reality is there. The question is, when will the public vernacular changed to address the issues. Quite frankly, it could be frightening, especially for the more vulnerable in society that are afraid that somebody can get use all types and and threatening them without knowing and not be thrown off the plane. Were as someone who is africanamerican or physically muslim can be thrown off the land simply for somebody being off the planem simply for someone being afraid of them. How a latino man was the revelation for doing math in a was thrownguage off the plane for doing math in a foreign language. Until we are honest with ourselves about the problem, this is a human condition not particular to a faith or race. We will still be reinventing the wheel every time. Thank you. 14 minutes left. Anld be literacy have affect on the vulnerability of inmates . Sure. Ould offer in emphatic yes emphatic yes. Lacking education is a common motif for the prison system in the u. S. Itn a person is illiterate, be more likely they will no able to educate themselves. The discussion we are having is about ms. Education miseducation on different sites. There properly educated concerning extremism, that would ine a profound effect decreasing the likelihood of extremism in the prison system. Is my particular view. Oni think we have to focus the type of literacy as well. Onlyoften, the trope is those who are susceptible to radicalization are those who are poorly educated and academic or secular sciences. In fact, that doesnt always hold water. Many people who have been involved in terrorist acts have been highly educated. They have been engineers or doctors. I think the problem here is not one of secular education, but one of religious literacy and education. Level ofa certain frustration with providence. Frustration with gods will that have all of these smarts and qualifications and i am still unable to relieve the political grievances or social grievances that i see in society. That frustration bubbles over because they dont understand how as a believer you are theosed to swim through providence of god and navigate life understanding that god has a purpose for all of that. That creates the frustration that brings about the radicalization. We need not only focus on those who are poorly educated in their formative years for those who are poorly educated in the religious beliefs, as well. This one is for me. Welcome. Thank you. This person claims islamic radicalism in prison poses a Homeland Security threat. Do you agree . I would answer with this. Domestic terrorism is a real problem that goes unnoticed. Data thato empirical radicalism inmic prison poses a Homeland Security threat. Why . One is we dont know. Now . Second, why not . Wereook at those incarcerated, they are the most disciplined, organized, focused religious group in our prisons and jails. Explained,lists have in a musty get to them and steer them in your direction. I dont know any instances. Maybe they do, the radicalization coming out of prison. I dont. I do know that there are other groups that are domestic terrorists who come out of prison. And on just go on on a and on. That is a different picture that is rarely ever on the news. Printed are coming from the hill over there. That is where the real problem is. Who do you think planted the bomb in minnesota . I dont know. I havent seen the latest i know. I will speak. It is one of them. , canyone is knowledgeable you address the story of emon rep brown . Mer there is a caveat here. I am not, although i am familiar with who he is. I am differently familiar, not as deeply as knowledgeable of what you intended the question to be to provide a proper answer. Doctor . I dont think i can comment point. At how does the justice or adjust respond to complaints of entrapment of muslims . I am not sure. And what progress has the Muslim Community done to address this issue . Huh. Justice department respond what that is . [laughter] in the Muslim Community, there have been people have been thatg services and mosques have focused on muslim youth in telling them you should be mature enough and knowledgeable enough of your own faith to not become a tool for anyone, whether that be a radical extremist or that be someone trying to entrap you who then continue as a radical extremist. Cannot be foolish enough to fall into a trap or to be pushed into one. That is actively happening in n mosques. Ll you cannot allow yourself to be manipulated from those who have numbers who are trying to rack things. Rrests and other ok. This one. What ever is in place between the Muslim Community and law anorcement to implement Intervention Program where there is an affirmed in televisions thereelligence where implementing a supportive role . They really want to know. What efforts . I can speak to texas and florida. Those are two states where i am familiar with the communities. I know for the joint terrorism tax force and the officers that are in the areas as well as local police departments, there has been a lot of cooperation between leaders of the muslim enforcement,nd law is actionablee intelligence were not talking about someone calling up because their friends beating them at world of warcraft or some online game we are talking about i am afraid of my my son, he is talking about traveling overseas. They talked to someone and said can you go with us and intercept this kid . Can you go and talk to him . They have been successful in those instances and turning those you the way and focusing the character traits that may be triggers in the Muslim Community. I can say that has happened in those two places for the better of that young person to get them help for the betterment of the community as a whole and for the betterment of society for saving them from any trouble. Ok. Somebody else . Of these thoughts pertaining to washington, d. C. Brother o mind a our brother. He is undergoing troubles with cancer. It brings him to mind. He established a Good Relationship washington, d. C. Police department. They have very fluid pol communication between them. They have worked together. Going did 2010, and they were actually engaged in the mosques and established communication. During my tenure, we would go out. They had d. C. Nights out, things of this nature, and we would engage in one of our. He did very well with that. And he handled discussions and the things that a relative, he does convey on a personal note. Also during my tenure, there was at thevidual of interest time with the fbi. They made sure to stop by, give me a conversation, and we engaged one another. That particular problem we were able to solve it. There is a level of engagement within the muslim communities and law enforcement. Ok, i got one minute to rep this up, and i will do it like this. Aboutnel today has talked education, education, education. How do we do that . We have become ambassadors, spreading the word about true islam. Throughout the faithbased community, throughout social organizations, throughout the business community, everywhere, talking to everybody ok . It is crucial we communicate. Get the message out. The second is public policy. We have to put people in office, ok, who will carry our water. If they do not, you got to go home. It is just that simple. Iwe asked the question know i will get in trouble for saying this who are the real terrorists . Ok. And i leave you with that. Thank you, all, very much. [applause] thank you, my brothers. Thank you all. Mr. Ridley thank you all, most of all. Ok. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] all praises due for allah, and peace and blessings. Here,st leg of the race and today will will talk about Mental Health challenges for muslims and conflicts of identity. And as you know, until Health Issues are something that is a human issue. It is not something that is single to muslims or any other faith or population of people. Without further i do, i just want to get started, because we have a lot of speakers we have to get through, and the time is limited. I would like to actually first ali, if yourother would not mind coming up. He state maryland delegate [applause] in the name of the lord, most ,erciful and compassionate being the only state legislator from baltimore city, i know how it feels to be alone and ostracized. But the point i want to make is this thankof all, i want to tay because this is so necessary about educating the public in general about what true islam is all about. I think it has been a total miseducation about the faith of islam, and i think we operate out of so many stereotypical ideas that this interferes with you getting or being able to connect with the person. I think the common denominator is we are all human, we all have shared values. I think language is so important prescribe a you certain adjective to an entire religion as opposed to did compartmentalizing the compartmentalizing behavior of ofels who may or may not individuals who may or may not embrace an entire faith. The take away today is we had a that we hope there is a message you take away from here today, and better understanding represente do not islam. If anat i mean by individual does something that we know is contrary to the fundamental principles of islam, we do not generalize or paint the entire religion with one brush, because we do not do that with any other religion. It seems like it seems like islam has become that target that when someone does something and may propose to profess a belief in islam, then the whole religion gets a bad rap. We need to educate ourselves more to differentiate between that perk it particular persons behavior and accepting personal responsibility for those acts, no matter what they be as opposed to demonizing an entire religion. Im here to support these brothers. There is a lot of things that i have been able to do with in own community. I have been very effective in antiviolence movement, whether working with gangs. Ah brotherr akhil made a good point about the criminal justice models we use. Currently we use three models. Deterrence, incapacitate, and deterrence. It of you fit in one of those boxes or you do not. There is no integrated model that comes out of criminal justice that we are currently using, but we should have a more integrated model because there is different individuals in different circumstances that we ind to evaluate, individuals order to pro appropriately assess those individuals. Given the Political Climate we are in now, as we all know, we have a lot of work to do as individuals, and i think the brother has said it earlier, that we should be ambassadors to go out, because many of us have muslim neighbors, and we need to debunk a lot of the stereotypes out there because at some point they take on a life of their own, or people think they are the truth, and a half truth is doesised as the truth more damage than the actual truth itself. Facing the worst thing you can do to the truth is stretch it. Wanted to give a few words, because i know we are strapped for time, and i want to make sure that this important dialogue continues. Thank you. [applause] mr. Mavins thank you, brother bilal. Now we are going to hand it over ibrahim aziz. When we discussed radicalization, it is done in an impersonal matter. We use terms for terrorist fighters come organizations, or homegrown violent extremists. However, there is no one reason or one cause why somebody in becomes someone becomes lost to extremism. There is a desire to connect, to be accepted, deep part of a unified body in something that is a way we define ourselves. What im asking us all here to consider is that in some cases, our lack ofms, nuance when discussing this topic, and the overgeneralization can be dehumanizing and can lead to a bat blanket this categorization in labeling an entire group of muslims. My name is ibrahim aziz. My brother is charged was charged in december 2015 with providing Material Support isis. Caan remember the frantic lls from my grandmother. During the call, she could hardly speak. I could hardly make out her words. Im trying to get her to calm down and explain to me, hoping she is overreacting to something minor. I cannot understand you. Yaya, these calm down. What are you trying to say to me . After turning trying to get her to calm down, i can make out what she was saying. They took him. I think the fbi. My little brother . There must be some kind of mistake. The house we grew up had its share of problems. It was riddled with undiagnosed Mental Health problems. Theeers have unique view of world. They would say it is very dangerous out there. Do not trust people. Do not trust her friends. It is probably better not to have friends at all. For the majority of my early childhood, we could either visit friends or have friends over at our house. My sister and i had each other. We went to Public Schools. We were exposed to other individuals and children. Grandmother, aunts, uncles, and as i got older i found comfort among the larger Muslim Community,after i moved out on my own, i had encountered tremendous difficulty adjusting to life. The real word was nothing described us, nothing for which i was repaired. Prepared. I could advise myself. It was not about income. Idid not know who i was, and lacked a positive selfimage. There was an older mode muslim social worker who suggested i receive professional help. It took about 10 years before i could really say that i like to goodwise, that i felt about who i was, who i am. My little brother did not attend Public School as i did. My little brother was not allowed to commit kate or be with my sister and i. He was not allowed to interact with his answer articles. My little brother had no friends, and he was intentionally ostracized and sequestered from everyone. And while i cannot discuss the details of the case, i can tell you he was isolated. How do i know . Because i was isolated. I continued he felt alone. How do you know . Because i felt alone growing up. His case was more severe than mine, and i was searching for acceptance, and so i know he was searching for except. On rare occasions, when i was allowed to interact with him and meet with him, he was confirmation additionally conversationally behind, inappropriately shy, a brother, withdrawn. He was at 17, you could equate to talking to a 10yearold. He was socially behind. When my family went to see him during my court hearing, my grandmother, aunts, uncles, carrots, and we were photographed by the local newspaper after leaving the courthouse, in the comments on the photo of that news article was, who are they . Were they muslim, too . We should kill them all. In the picture was an 85yearold woman in a will chair. Wheelchair. By theher was isolated family, and in that isolation he looked for acceptance, and in searching for acceptance, he was targeted. , my little brother is not an anomaly. There are many people looking for acceptance. Now we have a group or groups that say we will accept you with all your imperfections. All you have to do is fill in the blanks. Mental health challenges, isolation, yearning to be loved and accepted can be a catalyst and precursor to violent ideology. Brits my heart that my mother has gone from living in 1 it breaks my heart that my brother has gone from living in a cage to living in another. As we look for solutions, there can be no onesizefitsall, and my little brother needs help, he needs his help, and not the kind ightelp that a six by e cell provides. Thank you. [applause] you, ukraine,ank for sharing such a personal story, and we really do appreciate use sharing that. Part of breaking down the stigma of Mental Health. So without further and do, because of our time, we will mohammedh brother hussein. I think i need a moment after hearing that. Quite it was emotional. Mr. Hussein i would like to on behalf of the tam for taking time out of your day to join us. It started at 10 00 a. M. Joining us online, and what we feel is a really relevant, pertinent, and essential conversation, and that is how to effectively challenge extremism. It is something which is near and dear to my heart and something that really impacts the lives of each and every one of us here. I would like to thank the for a 40 the newseum us this venue in a Freedom Center specifically for a studentme to be and study and dig deeper into the intersection of religious, civic, and legal this course as a relates to the first amendment. Myself am the executive director of an Organization Called safe. The somaliamerican youth foundation. I am Second Generation somaliamerican, the son of somali immigrants, someone who is considered a leader especially in the Somali Community. What i would like to talk about in these brief moments is radicalization in the Somali Community, radicalization with somali youth. And some of the many factors that do contribute to this radicalization. As you heard, time and time again, not just one thing, there are many different issues and factors that contribute to radicalization. We just heard the story of abraham and his brother, the isolation, the social app court thece awkwardness, inability to converse even with family members. Like to begin, i would give a brief background about the Somali Community, the somaliamerican community. There are, as many of you know, there are hundreds of somali have been americans living in areu. S. , and they concentrated in certain pockets. The twin cities, minneapolis and those are one of them. Columbus, ohio, seattle, washington, to name a few. In the past 15 years or so, there has been well over 100,000 immigrants, refugees, who have been admitted to the u. S. The somaliamerican population in the u. S. Is different in this sense. Theres some immigrant populations which are relatively new who have been in the states were 10 or 15 years or less, and some somali communities like the community here in the d. C. Retro area, the community in san diego, and others, you have been around for 40plus years. It goes without saying that radicalization, even in the somaliamerican communities and the factors that do contribute to radicalization are going to be different. You think about the Somali Community, when you think about did yououth, you think, watch the news, you hear alshabaab out al qaeda andliates, between 2007 2012, over 40 somali, young somaliamericans, including two or more young girls went overseas with legal means to fight to join these terrorist networks. You also may acts of terror here at home in the u. S. Might have heard about the recent 2016 shooting at the ohio state university, which were nearly a dozen people were shot and injured. Heard about the stabbing in st. Cloud, minneapolis, where the assailant stabbed people before he was shot and killed. Heard about the young man in portland, oregon had the of detonating a bomb at a holiday Tree Lighting ceremony before he was caught and thankfully no one was injured. In this particular situation, his family actually spoke to the about some intuition or some that theirthey had young son was being radicalized. So this kind of goes back to the issue thats been reiterated, especially in the first panel, about that there has to be a level of trust between the governments or the organizations and the communities that they serve. Without that, you may have a situation like this young man, whose family may feel that their son was, after they informed law enforcement, that their son was illegally entrapped. There are many factors that contribute to radicalization in the community Somali Community, particularly somali youth. Many of these factors are social economic have nothing to do with religion. Most studies will show you that there is no relation between religiosity and uptick in extremism. There are other external factors which contribute to this. They could be poverty, lack of housing, for education, crime, gangs, theres one interesting study in 2007, 2009, there were around 20 somali youth who went overseas to join. At the same time, in the twin cities, 11 young somalis were killed in Gang Violence. Dr. Ink this goes back to bakers street approach where you see this correlation between Gang Violence and extremism. If you speak with community members, radicalization to them is just one of the many issues that is concerning to them. Isolation is another issue. Isolation is another issue which whether it is self isolation or which mayisolation, enable a platform where radicalization can fly. But the focus here is Mental Health, so i will stick to that. Mental health in the Somali Community has been stigmatized for a very long time. Somalia is a muslim majority country. Over 99 of somalis are muslim. For a very long time, if you were to bring up this issue of Mental Health, a person being depressed, or a person even being stressed out, you would be told that you are possessed. You are possessed by demons. You need to go and recite more koran. You need to pray in the mosque. There is nothing wrong with your Mental Health. Thats not an issue. That youngrprising kids would go to their parents and say, im feeling stressed out. They would say, there is no such thing as stress. So for a very long time, due to , even lack ofion correct islamic education, again because islam does not say anything negative about Mental Health. It is something that is important, and we treated just like we treat physical health. We take care of it, we maintain it, we take the proper steps to ensure that that part of ourselves remains healthy. Time, as the, over education barrier, the language barrier, the cultural a barrier has eroded over time, the Somali Community has been more proactive in discussing these issues. Juneas recent as this past , there was a conference at the university of Minnesota School of social work in conjunction with the somali Mental Health network. To discuss some of these problems. And what are some of the things that first generation, Second Generation even thirdgeneration somali americans are facing . Many somalis, especially those who immigrated in the past 20 years, were fleeing from civil war. Tong from refugee camp refugee camp, waiting for the day you get that phone call or letter that your application has been accepted and you and your family are not safe. And you leave with a heavy heart, knowing you left the life that you built, the homes you won, the degrees you obtained, you left all that behind in pursuit of a safer life and a Better Future for your children. So, ptsd is something that is common. In these somali communities. But again, it was something that was not addressed. Journal ofts the the American Medical Association that says, ptsd and refugees can range anywhere from 4 to 86 . Is a real issue. It is a true issue. My generation, secondgeneration, somali americans, may not have faced this. But they grow up in a household where these issues are not talkssed, where you dont about depression, you dont talk about stress, you dont talk about ptsd, any of these things. , there is anf that intergenerational transfer of trauma. Now you as a second or Third Generation somali american may start to take on the trauma of because they never got any closure on those issues. They never got treated great they never even talked about it, not even with their children. Reated. Treated. They never even talked about it, not even with their children. Some of these numbers highlight that this is a real issue, and not just an issue that is going to go away anytime soon. Because again, you have the transfer from generation to generation. Many young people have been radicalized that are secondgeneration. Ay have never seen somalia day in their life, may not even speak somali. But some of these factors here, they contribute to them becoming vulnerable, and not having anybody to talk to about these issues, isolation, coupled with these Mental Health issues, makes it really vulnerable for those who choose to exploit them. There are several organizations, you know, been established in the past 10 to 15 years to try and discuss some of these issues or even deter somal i youth from being radicalized. I say somali youth because thats where i spent a lot of my but ia lot of my focus, have Service Youth director in somalis made where up less than 5 in the community. These issues are not specific just to the Somali Community. Ive seen issues, very similar to the issue that ibrahim spoke of him with his brother. I was a youth director in a community, and there was a young person who was being charged with providing Material Support to isis. And, he lived in the same city at the organization as a youth director but he would never come to the mosque. I have never seen him a day in my life. I just heard about him in the news. So again, try to reiterate that point that radicalization does not actually happen in the mosque. I heard about this young person on the news. Almost none of the youth in our youth group who who he was. And those who had met him at summer camps and thinks like that in the past, that he was very isolated, to himself, and things of this sort. So, id like to include by saying that conclude by saying that it is important that we do take a holistic approach that theicalization, professionals, be it in islamic theology or Mental Health or corrections, are put in deradicalize. And these people have to really be people that are trusted by the community. A grassrootsis effort. You cant have a grassroots effort without having the Community Involved and engaged, and having community trust. , i hope that the experts, all the other experts you seen today on the panel, are empowered and put in a position to help eradicate and the radicalize deradicalize not only the Somali Community, but in the Muslim Community as a whole. [applause] thank you for that very informative talk. For the sake of time, we will keep it moving. Any questions you may have, please write them on the cards. Baker, who isr. The trooper here. Hes been here since the beginning. Hopefully he has enough steam to keep it rolling. Youve got a very personal story from abraham. Ibrahim. That was a case similar to in the u. K. , a white convert. Same thing, isolated. I wont go into detail, but it mirrors what ibrahim has said. We have spoken looking outwardly to again, government agencies, social agencies, social work agencies. Theres a sense of denial amongst muslim communities as to the problems happening to our families and our children. Too often we hear when its too late, that child was a good child, we didnt realize, we didnt do this, we didnt do that. Were not saying we should spy on them with regards to social media. So where is that parental engagement . Where is that parental responsibility . Where is it that we have given a space for our children and those young and the community to articulate their thoughts, even if wrong . And that needs to happen because what were finding is, when i moved up, i became part of a gnag. Gang. When youve got protagonists a protagonist is similar to those like the military, totally different, but they look for foot soldiers. We heard about academic intelligence, literacy. Theres also emotional intelligence. You find a number of these individuals who are susceptible to violent extremism are emotionally illiterate. We did have a demo which we were going to show you, one that deconstructs we did. Beheaded andg things like that, to show their propaganda. When i show that two Police Officers training in the u. K. , i show that, a minute of it. They heard the martyrdom rhetoric. Have fiveem, you minutes, discuss amongst yourselves, how would you address this propaganda video with vulnerable youth . They were honest enough to admit. One put his hand up and said, i was convinced by the narrative. I was actually convinced. I dont know. How would you do it . I took them through a process that we go through of the construct, a video we actually look at. Thatoint is, we are doing when at a more rudimentary stage we should be engaging with the youth regularly within the mosques. The mosques shouldnt just become places of worship. If we are really going to engage, we should be having social works, academics coming in, engaging with the youth, save spaces in this way. I will go back to that for stage model i developed in my ph. D. Fourstage model i developed in my phd. I want to show you the stages we need to bring these youth through to help them nurture themselves. The first phase, that comes about through research creation. Those of the stages they are at. They are research ring, researching, gathering information, but they dont know how to process the information. A 16yearold looking at isis videos and beheadings . Really . Us sitting here now, we know some of us wont even look at those videos because psychologically we are at a stage where it would cause trauma to just watch. A child doesnt know that read why do we have parental guidance on movies . We dont temper what our children are doing and what the youth are doing. They are at that exciting stage of research, x duration, creation, looking at, gathering information. The next stage is idealistic, the youthful face. Phase. Now they have information. They are trying to place it in discernible context that its abstract. They are hearing things from a different land and we are crying trying to say, we can practice islam in the societies we come from. They are not mature enough to contextualize process, take out some of the things that are not practice civil and western society as opposed to that which can be practiced, ok . Stage, thee earliest founding stage has turned into information as its presented this is what protagonists do. We want to move them to the next educationally and psychologically. Knowledge, remember this adult phase, the third stage we were moving along . Thats the knowledgeable phase. It has the complexity of experience which comes about by seeing it from different perspectives. This is why training and education is difficult. One cannot count on one persons knowledge transferring to another. Knowledge is built from scratch by the learner through experience. Nformation is static but knowledge is dynamic as it lives within us. That is the adult stage. Im shattered, i can tell you that much. We moved to the final stage, which is the mature phase. The phase we all want to get to. Listen to the description here, this is when wisdom is acquired. Wisdom is the ultimate level of understanding. Knowledge, wisdom operates within us. We can share our experiences to create the Building Blocks of wisdom radio needs to be communicated with even more understanding of the personal context of our audience than with knowledge sharing. I will conclude on this part here with this particular summary. Data and information, the first two stages, deal with the past. They are based on the facts and add in context which they are not able to do. We need to help them do that in the formative stages. Knowledge deals with the present. We moving to the adult phase now. It becomes a part of us and enables us to perform. However, when we gain wisdom, the mature stage, we start dealing with the future as we are now able to vision and divine for what will be rather than for what is or was. We need to move our childrne, our youth, our selves through this process. You need to work with us on that. I will conclude, if we choose not to, ive already mentioned to you what we are looking at at the grassroots. We know some have returned from syria and iraq. We know some of them. Were in touch with some of them. Some of them are lying way below the radar. They come back appreciate the values of the society they return to. This was during the balkan conflict in the 1990s. Those coming back from iraq and syria have no appreciation. They hate our way of life. I say our, including muslims. Some of the muslim communities here and in the u. K. Continue to be insular, inwardly. To an extentvatism where they wont engage and participate in society. Those of us who are converts, we need to be conduits between the Wider Society and muslim society. We need to be bridges. We have our foot and one door by the virtue of our nonmuslim relatives and familiarity of the society we converted from. And also because of our familiarity with the community, the muslim communities we are now engaged in and interfacing with. Is that a cause for psychological issues and trauma . No. Embrace ofd to do is our identities as muslims, in this case americans. Theres a duality of identities which are complement three. Until that message comes about , untilose in government that comes from within the muslim communities, so the youth engagement,wider the opportunities are there for nonmuslims are also there for them. There are different nuances. We have different values, just like the christians and the jewish faith. But if were not doing that, you are going to continue to see psychological issues bubbling at the surface, and only coming out when its too late, and the heads of the extremists. What are the extremists doing . Some will say utopian. Lets call it dystopian, like those who went out to iraq and syria. They will tell you, forget every other identity you know. Black, white, brown, whatever. Part of theu are muslim nation. It themselvesine as to what that actually means today. But they give you a dystopian vision and tell you to run with it. So then you begin to hate everything youve ever come to know and love, because to love it means youre not muslim enough. To hate it means you are a true muslim, and therein lies the challenge because thats a psychological quagmire in itself for someone young who has not processed or moved through those 4 stages and has not been helped through those 4 stages by the wider Muslim Community and Wider Society. I think hes got some key elements he needs to bring to the table. Thank you for listening. [applause] again, i want to thank all of my fellow partners here. I would like to thank my partners here who gave us the opportunity to come here. I would like to thank our partners who came outside of the group to support us today. The wordticularly use partners because in this effort , the keywordhange and key drive has to be partnership. We need tothere, know who each other really are. Im one of the young ones, as you probably can tell. I think its really important that we talk about who we are, because who we are as individuals means something. Who we are is what can possibly create change. So to leave out who we are, we are doing you and ourselves and injustice. When we started, you start it point, wenk at this wellnow our brother is known not just here, but well known worldwide, has worked with the u. N. , has worked with his , along withrtners at some point our government. Its important to know who he is. Because we muslims worldwide come in contact with this person. Toknow that muslims travel do what we call making muslims travel when they go to omron, they are going to the land of saudi arabia and mecca. And they go to medina. One of the things they do when they go to medina, they seek out our brother here. They want to learn from him. And hes here with us. Hes here with us. Hes on the television. We can see him live. We can ask them questions. And this is one of our scholars in islam. This is not a small thing. So when we talk about creating change, you are talking about these two as leaders. So with their leadership, from an ideological standpoint, from an experience standpoint, how does he get better . We have many people that come to us as experts. Yet the actual handson experience is null and void. It doesnt exist. They read a book. They talked to this one and that one. But these people have hands on it. And then we go on. We have our brother joe bradford. Known throughout our country. Withinrothers are man and without. These other two, joe bradford and ingram, we seek them out here in the u. S. These are who muslims seek out, to learn from, to take from. This is who helps to create that positive ideology. We have them here. We are learning from them. And then, you have myself and mohammed. [laughter] we are the young ones. But, we bring something to the table. Tableng something to the because we are those individuals on the ground who are directly connected to individuals we are talking to. Individuals we worry about. Those youth. Those adults who have useful thoughts. I have my phone in my hand and i usually do because in my community, when theres a crisis, im usually being called. When theres a crisis in my community, mind you, i didnt say the muslims, i didnt say with the muslims, when theres a crisis, whether its muslim or because of called what we do for the community as a whole. Not just for the muslims. So what i do, yes, practice. I am a Mental Health clinician. Problemsople deal with. I run an organization, a Mental Health clinic. I have therapists, advocates, mentors, who take my direction to create change. In the schools with youth. Outside of the schools with families. It is not directed towards muslims. We have success to the point that ive been appointed eam that dealshe t with safety. Not just muslims. For everyone. My mayor of baltimore, im an advisor to several state delegates. Im advisor to several City Council Members when it comes to issues of violence in the community. To abouttter to talk individuals who happen to be muslim than one who has the expertise of dealing with violence . Some individuals are radicalized faulty understandings of islam. That wees another side have to get a grasp on. Is the side that individuals are socially affected negatively, and our brother ibrahim gave us an example. Muslims, i will get that muslims are now the citizens of our countries who have dual citizenship. But they werent always the persons with dual citizenship. This isnt something new to our country. And this isnt something new to africanamericans. Because africanamericans have a history of dual citizenship in our country, that we made an effort to fight, that we made effort to resolve, that we made effort to stop individuals from becoming radicalized, and joining with their fellow brothers and sisters as americans. Africanamericans have accomplished that. It took time. For me, i have to create change. My job is to put it where the goats can get it. Ive got to make sure that we as a group understand what pans up and how we do it. So, thats what i intend to do. All have to excuse me. Because i kind of developed what i want to talk about based on hearing the questions, plus being said, and whats not being said. Our brother talked about catching individuals at an early stage. Allowal is not to individuals to become radicalized. We dont want this to happen. We can stop it. We, the individuals, we can stop it. Because we are directly in those communities, and we have the same experiences that they have. So when you ask someone who studied, read a book, talk to someone talked to someone, they might answer your question. They might talk about it right but when you talk to someone it. But when you talk to someone se name is mujahedin mohammed who grew up going to who grew up with dual citizenship, sometimes it whodouble dual citizenship, i expecte that i fly, and somewhat understand why im going to get a special check. And i understand that. Things that i will say radical things can happen. Even to us as muslims. Just this summer, i flew. I wont state the airport, out of respect. But i flew down south to a smaller area. And when i came into problems, when i was leaving this airport, coming back to the baltimorewashington area, i was going through the checkpoint. My wife went first. I was carrying my 15 month old son. I was stopped. I wasnt allowed to go through. We have to check you out. I said, ok, no problem. Let me give my wife the baby. I was not allowed to pass my wife my child. I am normally a calm, civilized person. When i have my child in my hand and you stop me from passing my child over to my wife, now you have crossed the line and i am angry. Actingference between me on that anger and someone else acting on their anger is called cognitive dissonance. Dissonance is having two conflicting beliefs or thoughts. I will give you an example. Problems that relate to a lot of us. One example would be, an individual who speeds. Especially if you speed in d. C. Dont do it. Its not worth it. Whondividual who speeds, knows, if i speed, i will get a ticket. And they do it anyway. And when they get that ticket, when they get that ticket, they literally feel bad. I knew i shouldnt have. I knew there was a camera coming up somewhere. You actually feel it, even though you know you shouldnt do it. Yet you validate your reasons for doing it. I was running late, i had to get there. Another example. Some of us, the individuals on the street, and they ask for money. And we dont give it to them. And some of us feel bad about it. Like man, maybe he was real. Maybe he needed that dollar. Or, i had water in the car. I could have given him that. And after that, the next person, we give them something. That feeling at that time is cognitive dissonance. You have a belief and i thought and they dont agree with one another and you dont know what to do. Some muslims live a large portion of their life in that period and its stressful. And when i say cognitive dissonance, im talking about a muslim who is not ok being muslim. And this is what we need to worry about. This is the person who is vulnerable to being radicalized. Placee they live in a where i know im muslim and i want to grow my beard, and i know im muslim, but im at work but i want to pray, but if i do, this and this happens. Bad things will happen. Im not ok with losing my job. Im not ok with not working. I dont do of that, it great but yet i feel bad because i want to do it. Frustrationup this for everyone who does not agree or i dont think agrees with me being muslim. And i also build up a hatred for. Yself and when i start hating myself are not doing the things i know i should be doing, i fall into this place of cognitive keep me awaynd from people who will turn me the wrong way and release that energy out. Thats what we are targeting. We are targeting that group, we are targeting the group affected by that, and thats where the Mental Health peace lies. Ptsd is real. Depression is real. Cognitive dissonance, we all feel it. We are all susceptible to it. I appreciate it. [applause] thank you. That was real powerful. I guess we will move on to the questionandanswer session. Questioners and this goes for anybody who would like to take the question does the radicalization of women follow the same general patterns as that of men . How does the family dynamic inform the womens radi calization . It takes on a similar path to a certain extent. Is one of the things we see that especially in the west, in we see ther example, process for the women is a lot more intense as the house builders, the mothers of the children, and the isolation they fromlly have, youll find what weve done from the Research Perspective and when i was looking at my research, that because they are in the home, because they are more isolated, because they are more below the ther, their radicaliation, extent to which they can be radicalized can be very drastic. And, if we want evidence of the u. K. T we saw in was unprecedented with the amount of young ladies who went over to syria to join the islamic state. You all would have seen the images of the three young ladies going over, you would have seen and heard of the stories of families of 12 going over. Andthose who were pushing driving these individuals were women. And then we saw the social media between these women, those that arrived in syria. Communications. A colleague british colleague said, can i pass someone on to you. Hes in a real state at the moment. He contacted me and told me his exwife was married to an individual, and his starter of 12 years old used to contact him regularly, every week. December of not last year, the year before, what he thought of syria and traveling to syria. He wondered why she asked that. He said, thats crazy. What are you talking about . To thesponse was contact became less frequent and she contacted him one more time and then that was it. He contacted his colleagues, his family, even his exwifes parents. And they said, theyve gone. With the husband. Theyve left two of the children from the stepfather with the exwife and theyve taken his daughter. And they were en route to syria. Do what isked me to could. I spoke to colleagues and contacts. We found out they went from the west to guyana, south america, where my mothers from, back to the u. K. , stopped in the u. K. They performed on rough. Turkey they went to syria. I still have the voice recording he sent to me of his daughter. Ive written about this, if you look at one of my articles on the website, i transcribe some of what she said. She actually said, we are here now. I knew you would be upset if i told you i was getting here. They give us pepsi. Its really peaceful here. We love it. You could hear the mother in the background, schooling her daugh ter to speak. You. Ouyour father, i love mother and that female network driving others to travel and encouraging others to travel, but what worried us was the inculcation taking place amongst some of the children. Assign this task to their wife because they know their wives will be very effective in propagating that. Youve got women, you saw the single men in syria, british, and you have women encouraging them, saying this is the peak of heroism. This is the peak of being a major mujahedin. We will comment marry you. He felt it was romanticized. The process of women, females, is when we have to take very because it will cascade to their children as well. Im talking still about syria. One of the more extreme and brutal brigades was that of the women from the west, british women. Parade, and make sure the syrian women, the Indigenous People of this land, were not showing the eyes except one eye, not showing the legs or socks, not coming out at a particular time. It was the british women who had gone over and formed this brigade. Why . Were founding, youthful, idealistic stage where extremism was allowed to proliferate. I hope ive answered that. The evidence is there. You can just go and google and look at the amount of women, young ladies, and the networks of those young ladies. Muslims areamerican more grounded to an extent, from what ive seen and experienced. Thats not my area of specialty. But in the u. K. , that is what has happened. Dr. Bkeraker. We will move on to the next question. This is regarding being able to inform or impact at the policy level. American policymakers, what we could or should provide. I think that what we are doing right now is just that. Clear thatng it there are professionals who have the ability, have the experience, the wherewithal, and from the Muslim Community, from the Muslim Community. So the top thing with regards to advising our political communities is that everybody wants to advise that. And they have a test job with recognizing who to listen to. Because everybodys pulling at their coattails. But here today, we see there is a group who has those core needs that we need to be able to advise. How do we do that . Im raising my hand. I have cards. The other brothers have cards. Get information and reach out to. S very if i can just add, if policymakers and all of you ask, the framework of the crop solutions, policymakers ask whta does tam bring to the table, we bring the damn table. [laughter] [applause] appreciate it. They put it up. Im actually going to take this up real quick to run through our crop solutions. What this is, is really an outline of what we really do. We do a lot of talking, we understand, but how do we actually actualize it . Really quick, im going to run through this and we will keep it moving without questions. Intend first piece, we develop an internet and social Media Outreach program. What this does weve heard over and over, and most of us know, the majority of radicalization happens over the internet. People can type in something, and there is someone waiting out there to tell them the wrong thing and steer them the wrong way. So we have to start with saying, ok, its important to tackle this and work with our partners to where people type in certain things and are looking at areain things, that they transferred over to someone who will give them something correct. Not just anybody, but somebody who has the ability to deal with that on an ideological level, and on a behavioral level, and someone who they respect. I know that when most muslims type in something and they get ok, ive else pro, got to listen. Thats really important to have that. Number and is a 1800 an extremist hotline. This is important because often, there are a lot of signs. There are a lot of symptoms that can be seen. Too often we ignore them, not because we dont care, but because we dont know what to do with it. Parents, as people, as we see certain things and sometimes we dont know what to do with this. Its a phase theyre going through. They will get out of it or i hear the same thing with parents with regard to their children who are being radicalized. They are going through something, they will get out of it. What if as a parent you could call a 1800 number to say, i need help, what do i do . This is highly important because if this was active, there are hundreds of parents, if not thousands of parents, who would like to call someone, not the fbi, but they would like to call someone with the safety of knowing, im not going to get in trouble for calling and im not going to be on a watch list because my child looked at the wrong thing and i want somebody to talk to them and straighten them up. This is our ability because i touch parents, i touch youth. Being in the community, i can make people aware of this. Program, youon heard a little bit about why its important. We actually have already completed the program here in washington, d. C. Weve already started that. The Pilot Program was a huge success. Continue and to kind of scale that up. Our tam podcast, media is important. There needs to be a constant to deal with the constant voice out there, making an attempt to radicalized, as i ilke to say like to say, our babies. That means to be a constant voice to deal with this. And having actual podcasts that people can tune into with names of who they know, theyll tend to listen. Our tam treatment facility. Now, this is important because unfortunately there are poison isls that the going to touch. And that poison is dangerous. That poison is dangerous. We know that we want to stop it before it ever gets to that point. Individuals need to be as a treatment model, right, youre talking about Mental Health as a treatment model, what individuals can effectively be treated in the same environment in which they were impacted. So we have to have the ability to remove those individuals and put them in a different environment. And this is what allows this to happen. We alsoy outreach, heard him talk about their needs to be tens, if not hundreds, of people, who are trained to go into communities and train train community partners, our police department, and ive got to say in baltimore, particularly in the northwestern districts, they do to trainob of this, them on what those signs are. And when to call, and what to do. And be aware of all of the resources. So this is program, that we have in essence as individuals already done. You heard our brother Mohammed Hussein talk about the somali population. Radicalization and extremist Research Center can you touch on this . Thatst in a nutshell, would be similar to the hotline for more detailed. But more dteailed. It would be doing with all kinds of radicalization, where we will enlist the expertise at any given time of harris parents, schools, institutions to call in if they are concerned about any or radicaline material being looked at, they can send that to this center. We will then disseminate, deconstruct, and return the deconstruct response to you, and if need be, come and get involved, try to find a suitable, trade partner with you to come and help in that. That will be a hub that will be enlisting the expertise of extreme experts, counter radicalization, religious extremist experts. So thats what this will actually be. 24 7, being able to contact or email or send material you are concerned about. As we asaid, parents contacting, seeing links or information on the website. Schools, colleges, un iversities at various levels. We have a couple of minutes left, so we are going to move on. Tam legal legislation division. Of course, this question came up. This is something thats in the plan. This is something that we have to tackle, that our policies have to make sense. Have policies that further push people into radicalization. The policies dont make sense. And when those policies arent working, we have to do something about them. To being those advocates able to work with our legislators, it has to happen. Seedis part of our third but in essence, this is our framework. This is what we come to bring you. This is what we are saying, this is how were going to actualize a lot of the theory, belief, and knowhow. Appreciate it. We are actually coming to the end of our session here. I would really like to thank all of our panelists for volunteering their time, and really informing us on the programs. Thank id ilklike to ill pass the mic to. We havent gotten to all of the questions, so we will try to address those questions. Let me also, on behalf of tam, thank everyone for their patients. I know weve been here since 8 00. It started at 10 00. We started on time. Hopefully god willing we will end on time before the end at 4 00. Its now 30 seconds before. Let me do the final housekeeping items, if i may. One, those questions we did not get to, and everyone asked very good questions, though he could not answer all of them in the time allotted. We will make every effort to post them on our website. Youve seen the twitter accounts as you are in the bathroom washing your hands, the tam website. Want to thank the prelim the president of the Freedom Center, and told him i was impressed on the professionalism. This effort amade success. As i said before in the morning session, we went to several entities come and no one would give us the mike, but nate gave us the mike, and as dr. Baker said, we brought the dam table. God willing, were going to make every effort make what we said a reality. It will take eight time, but we have the team and the professional knowhow to get this done. This thing that we have already been in the works, people have already called us even. I got a text from a senator who said he had spoken to the governor and the lieutenant governor. When he left, he was impressed with what he saw, and he wants to meet with us in the next 30 days to talk about our project. Hopefully that could be happening. I think the main focus is to gear towards the lowhanging fruit, which is dealing with the use youth who are in trouble, and look at the urban centers, d. C. And baltimore, where we have the preponderance of the tam members to talk that, but through at the end of the day we want to take the show on the road because we know the prisons are in dire need of our assistance. We want to debunk the issues of homegrown terrorists emanating from the prism and terrorism emanating from the i would like to write things done, because i get loquacious, and nate is giving the sign, so i thank you all very, very much, and again, they threw the patients and listening to us, and made the piece of allah be upon you. [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] we are wrapping up the conversation here at the newseum. Tonight in primetime, joining with actor and film maker rob reiner its down with a toumnist about threats democracy posed by russia. Inis part of the conference pasadena, california, at 8 00 p. M. On cspan. I had conversations with george will, david krauthammer, william kristol, some very smart principled republican thinkers who are on the same page as those of us on the other side. We are all on this together. We have not seen as of yet the elected officials on the republican side come along. They will, because they all know what the truth is. The truth is we have been attacked. We have been weakened. Thesystem of democracy, free press, this man sitting over here, his whole network has been attacked. Cnn has been attacked. Thenew york times, they have allt, been attacked. Yes certain institutions, and we hope those institutions will stay strong and protect us. And maybe they will. We are at a critical point right now as to whether or not they will, because make no mistake about it, they have already invaded us and they will continue to try to weaken us. Communitiesn the communicators, we are at the black hat conference in las vegas. The hospitals are being packed almost daily. The federal government, the banks, they are getting whacked almost daily now. We need to live with this stress. They never eradicated the flu virus. We learned to live with it. You do certain things when you know you are exposed and the flu is going around, you isolate yourself from other folks that have the flu. Theres hygienic measures you take in the physical world that are now needed in the digital world. Communicators tonight at 8 00 eastern on cspan2. Cspan, where history unfolds daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service by americas Cable Television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider