Looked at roberts rule. I figured it out finally. The guy got more votes than i did. I got beat. Thats all there is to me. It didnt bother me but it hurt me because it hurt some of my friends. How are you feeling about leaving . Well, when i wanted a doughnut this morning, i went down and get it. Ive been a member of congress for 34 years and to finally get beat, if i was a manager for a be able or Football Team and i had 341, id be in the hall of fame, so doesnt bother me. And really it didnt bother me to get beat, because i wasnt just set on going. I had 18 cochairman who were chairman of my 18 counties in my district that were supporting me and wanted me to run, and i did. Its better judgment was it its hard toe get elected if you are 90 or 91yearold and they dont tell people that you run two miles every morning, that you vote 99 plus percent of the time. Theres a difference between that and old people. That wasnt brought up by the Dallas Morning News because theyre not in my favor. Whats your secret, how are you running two miles a day . I was told once, i was in the cattle building, if one of your he was has a bull calf. Go out there and lift the bull calf every day over the fence, day after day after day until hes a fullgrown bull. Then when you can still lift him over the fence and throw him over the fence, you can throw the bull enough, you can run for congress. Thats what they told me. So thats how i got into the congress, i left the cattle business and came here. Well, youve switched parties during your time here. Youve seen the parties change so many times. Whats your handicap, lets start with the democrats what do you see when you look at the Democratic Party . Well, the Democrat Party was democrats andrty, liberal democrats. I wasnt really liked any better by the republicans than the democrats, because i voted in my district. I had the sam rayburn district. Go up there and do a job and tell them youre doing a good job. Im not a golfer. I dont hunt. I dont fish. I campaign when i have a day. I go walk a building out or something ifment ive campaigned all my life. I think thats the way i stayed elected ed. Staying with the democrats, today is it still split between the liberals and the conservatives oh. Yeah. Theres three or four conservatives over there now. Thats it . Yeah. So itsing changed. Theyll slowly become republicans, probably. Of course it would make sam rayburn if he were alive. He was our kind of democrat. Because when he looked back over his shoulder as he went to bonham, trks, to die, he left texas to die, he left a balanced budgets, so he was a conservative. When you look at the Republican Party, your challenger was a Tea Party Member. Is the Republican Party i dont know if hes a Tea Party Member or not. You cant direct mail them. We dont know who they are or where they are. I always tell them to look at my record. Are you seeing the party split the same way you described the democrats between fiscal conservatives and well, we have different types of conservatives as republicans. We have those that are hell for leather, republicans, you know, and its got to be a republican if youre right. You have to be a conservative if youre right, and thats what were beginning to learn, i think. Other members that weve talked to have talked about how the congress has chavengt in the past during your tenure to an institution where people used to do things together off hours, which played out in more compromise. Do you find that the place has changed in that regard and, if so, why . Well, pretty much. When i got here i was a conservative democrat. I didnt really fit. Republicans really didnt want me and the democrats didnt like me. For example, the bushes were dear friends of mine. I flew with the old bush. He flew tore pidto bombers. He was of a famous family. He didnt know me until after the war was over. I knew those people and add mired them. I had good luck with the bushes and good luck with reagan. I have a picture on my wall made with reagan, looking at our boots at camp david. The First Six Months he was there, i thought im going to be at camp david for the rest of my life. That was 30 or 40 years ago. I havent been back. I dont know if i paverpedr participated correctly out there. I asked him some questions about marilyn monroe. He was a good guy and easy to talk to. Ronald reagan came here when a man, one person could make a difference. I doubt that they can today. Why so . I dont know. He came here accepted as a conservative democrat or republican, but hed been a democrat like all the rest of us, so he was in between he was a inbetween deal there. Somehow we felt like you could trust him. I got called the first 30 days he was here, because when he hit here, he hit here with a plan to increase pay for the military and yet cut the budget. That was his goal, and he had enough folks to get it, do it. When he got here about 19 or 20 of his fellow republicans came to him and said, if you dont hang the way youre voting on funs and on abortion, were not going to support your bill. Of course, you know what they told them, to go jump. But then he had to have some help out of the adamic party i was a democrat there. Democrat. Ousend was a we had some strength over there. Jim baker could tell the president , call one of those guys and theyll help you. They said, well, i know ralph hall better an i know any of them. Well have the president call him and maybe hell pick up those votes that he lost. They needed about 10 votes. They told me he was going to call me. So i was ready for him. He called and said, this is ronald reagan. I said, yeah, i believe that. Martha, come over here. He thinks im reagan now, but i want you to hear him. He said, no, i really am. Another guy came over and no, its really him. Thats are funny type things that you dont forget. Sure. When i knocked on the door he told me to come over there. I need some time. I had a program like he did. I always wanted to put a president on hold. I put him on hold about two minutes and i said, well, i can come over there today, tomorrow, or the next 30 minutes. What you want me to do . He told me to get my youknowwhat over there. I knocked on the door. He said one question, what is it going to take for you to help me pay for the budget . I had an answer for him. As you look across the president s ha youve served under, served with, which of them have been the best at working congress to get their legislative id probably have to say reagan. He was so believable, and he had been a democrat, you know, pretty much, but the two bushes were easy for me to work with because i knew them. During world war ii, i had flown been at the same base a time or two with the old bush. He was a famous father. I knew who he was. He didnt have any idea who i was. I supported him for some statewide race. I think he got beat the first time. But bushes have always been favorites of mine. Because i knew Little George when he was nine or 10 or 12 years old. I knew he was never going to be president. But thats what a good woman can do for you. She changed him. You can have me or you can have jack daniels and he made the right choice. That woman probably saved the guy. Ronald reagan was the best at working Congress Many i think so. Yeah. I think he handled them better. He even went over and tear down that wall and brought cheers rather than jeers. He knew what to say and when to say it. He came when one person could make a difference. I dont think one person can make a difference now. A person that you have on your wall. Lyndon johnson. What was your impression of him . He landed a helicopter many our football field and i got to know him then. I went to work for him and i think they were paying me 3 a day to put up his placards, but what i had to zoo, i thood bring them three placards of the guy they were hiring me against. They really were hiring me to tear the other guys placards down. I got to application later because he was a good politics later. You pleft politics for a while and worked in private industry but decided to come back and make your bid for National Elected office. Who drew you back in after your time in private life . I was in business and i was buying and selling land. I was rock wall countys the smallest county in texas, 254 counties and my Little County is the mallest. Dallas spills over on us and as they spilled over on us, it increased the value of our land and the counties next to us. I bought a lot of land and bought it and sold it at that time right time. During the 80s when every hit bottom, i was running for offers and i was trying to come up here. If i had been doing what id been doing, id have been broke. But i wasnt. All through the 1980s i was trying to stay keep my head above water because i knew i was coming to congress. Why did you want to come to congress . Well, sam rayburn and my mother were schoolmates at mayo college, a Little College before east texas teachers State College at commerce, texas. Ow its texas a m at commerce. They elected a good friend. She wrote a letter to sam rayburn when world war ii broke out and asked me to help me get an officer, get Officers Training school. He didnt call her back or write her back. Table. To her breakfast he said i cant hire him because of his grades. I graduated in a class of 38 but i graduated number 38. I always have been able to make it some way. Somebodys been good to me. Was it sam rayburn that made you want to come to congress . Yeah. Because my mother spoke to highly of me. A bunch of republicans came to me one time when i was a county judge in rock wall and was going to put up money for me to run against sam rayburn. My mother asked me, if you do that, where are you going to get breakfast, you know . I wasnt going to run against sam rayburn. He was a great man. I think sam rayburn could sfwill speaker of this house or could be i think, oh, joe dimaggio could still hit the fastball, the pitchers of today. I think those old guys could still operate the way they did, because, you know, when like i said, when ray burn looks back over his shoulder, he left a nation here that had a plan for it and had a balanced budget and had had one for 10 years when he was there. Your office is in the ray burn building. Did you do that intentionally . No. I always wanted to get here. The first year i was here, we drew for offices. There were 9 of us and i drew up in 9. Last again . , the last again i drew number 630 when there was 62 votes. So i stayed where i was. Finally, i stayed here solong had my choice and i picked this place. This is the best office on the hill. Why is that . Youre closer to the elevator, the views, and you think about that when youre an old guy, rest r5078s. Got everything an old guy wants. Youre surrounded by lots of photographs. So proud of all these people. Theyre all friends of mine. I dont know what im going to to with all these pictures. I have Neil Armstrong who came to my home and supported me when it looked like i might get beat. He came and worked for me. He was a good guy. Buzz aldrins been to my home several times, and in rock wall, you know, they werent sure who buzz aldrin was, but they knew he was somebody. And of course i took him to the schools. You know, seniors vote. This guy, Neil Armstrong and buzz aldrin came on one of my election action elections. He called me from new york. You come ets lrks pick me up. He said the Dallas Morning News is knock ug around. First thing i learned is you dont fight people. He came here and it helped me. They helped me through the campaign. Ive had good luck and all kinds of help. To be in politics and stay, you have to have some ability but you have to have a little luck every now and then. Ive always had that and had people who helped me. The regulation when people were going to run against me, the regulation were republicans and theyd tell the people in my district that they werent going to get any republican money, the money would go with me. Wasnt too good be some of the real hard wing left democrats up there but theyre still my friends. What are you going to do with your pictures and papers . Are they going to a university somewhere . Im told theyre going to take all the pictures to texas a m, reproduce them and give these back to me. I hope they do. Your papers are going to texas a m . Yes. Everything i have are going to texas a m at commerce. My grandson went to school there. My wife, when i was in the office here started school there and went all the way through and got her degree from there. So were east Texas State Teachers College people. Didnt know there was another school anywhere. Many of these pictures and memorabilia are from the Space Program. Will you talk about what you think your legacy in quang the Space Program has been . Well, when i came up here, when i was first elected to congress, kim wright was the speaker. Hed been in my home and he and i were good friends. Id referee a fistfight that he had with a guy thats one of his best friends even today. I knew people who later were somebody. He called me in and said what do you want to be on. I said i want to be on something with energy texas is an energy state. I want to be something with that space station. Ive gone to some of the liftoffs with some of the older members. I think i belong on some kind of Space Program. He put me on both of them. It would take you 10 years to et on either one of them now days. I got lucky. I have friends in high spaces. What are you proudest of . Well, im proudest that we i was that one street we name and kept them from killing the space station. They came down to one vote on that. And i got dr. Debakey to walk the floors with me. We had that same vote and we won by a hundred votes. Later they tried to take space out of science and technology. I was a oneman army that taught them to leave space where it was because thats where it belonged . Why . Going to the moon . Is that transportation . I think thats a little licked. But it is space, you know, and its been space forever. Why change Something Like that . What benefit would it be . What do you think of this states commitment to the Space Program today . Well, were hurting. Were in trouble. And its a lack of money. I have a book over here was what is his name . Hes been before all the committees saying how bad we need the Space Program. Ive asked them to give money and it took too much money for them. They wouldnt do it. So were at russias good will by we started out giving them 50 million for a seat to go to our own space station. We need to keep going back and forth to that station. We made a mistake when we didnt put up the amount of money that it would have taken, because the Space Program is just not even 1 of the overall budget. And space is so important. Every youngster in the world would be affected if we lost the space station. Wed lose all our International Partners if we didnt do our part in keeping the space station open and available to them. Its just important. We may have to defend the next war out of space. Who knows . I told dr. Debakey himself, if you ever leave that space station, well lose the cure for cancer. And whats more important than a cure for cancer . Its important. I want to go back to your military service. Fewer and fewer members of congress have served in the military. Does it make a difference, considering that members have to make that important vote about yes, it does and it made a lot of difference that i was a veteran when i came here. Sonny montgomery was the only general i knew that i could call sonny, but that was his real name. If he lost four votes in the entire congress hed go grab them by the tirkse what do you mean voting against space, what do you mean voting against my bill . He was strong and it was a strong push that day and time and still should be. What about members of congress with military service when you have to vote on things like sending people to war . How important is that . Does it matter . It matters if youve been side by side with someone or youve gone to your buddys funeral or you have a grave named after you. As a joke i always kid and say when i die, do i want them to say he was a good man or he really was a good to his family or he was a good member of congress. No thats not what i want to hear them say. I nt to theyre them say thought i saw him move. So im 91 years old. I dont hurt anywhere. Im not on anybodys wait list or anything like that. I still run a couple miles a day. Vote 99 of the time. I do most everything everybody else can do. I run two miles every day. I dont run it every day but theres never three days goes that i dont run it. I ran this morning. One thing thats changed is Media Coverage of congress. You mentioned ink by the barrelful. The people working in ink are hurting nowadays. Its all the internet and social media. How do you think thats affected things . The social media and the press . Theres been some good and some bad. Ive popped off and said things to people but ive said things i wished to hell i hadnt said, you know. I think were more aware when we talk to you folks of what were saying that, it could be in the paper in san diego tomorrow or in tv. I think you stop and think a little bit more so than we used to, you know. They of these politicians, shoot at everything thats that flies and claim at anything that falls. Theyll be fruit their knees sooner or later you got to have some common sense and have some view of the fichep future and remember what happened in the past before you pop offer here and stake take a stand on anything. Do you have any allies in the senate . We have two good senators . Ive always liked the senators over there. Got along with them fine. Never wanted to run for the senate. I was in the texas senate 10 years. Yb wouldnt you want to go over there . Anybody would like to be in the senate, i always thought if somebody dies over there, theyd appoint me to finish the senate term and if that never happens, i think hes still got it. He wont run against anybody. So id be standing there. Id be lot of times ive been lucky just because i was standing there. So the senate itself, tho