Hearing, and we will show it again now in insincerity. We will show it again at 8 00 p. M. Eastern time. Afterrt off right witnesses and senators enter. Sen. Burr i would like to call the hearing to order. I would like to welcome our Witnesses Today. The director of national intelligence, dan coats. Good to see our former colleague. Director of the Central Intelligence agency, mike pompeo. Director of defense intelligence, vince stewart. Director of the National Security agency, mike rogers. Director of Geospatial Intelligence agency, robert cardella. Fbi,cting director at the andrew mccabe. Thank you for coming in on such short notice. Since 1995, this committee has met with an open forum to hear about and discuss the security threats facing the United States of america. I understand that many people tuned in today are hopeful that we would focus solely on the Russian Investigation and their involvement in our elections. Let me disappoint everybody up front. While the committee certainly views russian intervention in our elections as a significant threat, the purpose of todays hearing is to review and highlight, to the extent possible, the ranges of threats that we face as a nation. The National Security threat picture has evolved significantly since 1995. What used to be a collection of mostly physical and state taste National Security concerns has been replaced by something altogether different. Today our traditional focus on countries like north korea, russia, and iran, is comforted by new challenges like strategic threats posed by nonstate actors in the cyber arena and the danger of transnational terrorists who can use the internet to inspire violence and fear in the homeland all without leaving their safe havens in the middle east. What has not changed, however, is the tireless dedication and patriotism of the women and men who make up the United States Intelligence Community. The very people represented by our witnesses this morning. One of the many reasons i find so much value in this hearing is that it provides the American Public with some insight into the threats facing our country. But it also lets people know what is being done on their behalf to reduce those threats. I encourage all the Witnesses Today to not only address the threats to talk about what their organizations are helping to do to help this country to the degree they can in a classified uclassified setting. An uclassified setting. Director coats, yours is a lengthy and detailed account of what this country is facing and it is evidence of why the substantial resources and investments that this committee authorizes are in fact necessary. From the human tragedy of the refugee crisis in the middle east to the risk that territorial ambitions will set off a regional conflict in the south china sea, it is a complicated and challenging world. Director pompeo, the Korean Peninsula is a point of concern particular concern to me and to many on this committee. I would like your insight into what is behind north koreas unprecedented level of nuclear and missile testing and how close they are to holding the u. S. Mainland at risk of a nuclear attack. I would also value your sense of how tuesdays elections of the a new president in south korea is going to impact things for us on that peninsula. General stewart, im sure that you are aware of the reinvigorated policy discussions on afghanistan. While we all respect that you cant offer your own recommendations on what that policy should be, i would very much value your assessment of the situation in afghanistan today, including the state of governance in kabul, the sustainability and proficiency of the afghan National Security forces, and whether taliban reconciliation is a realistic objective. If the u. S. Is ramping up in afghanistan, we need to know the iocs abuse on what we are getting into. I also will share your assessment of the battlefield in iraq and in syria with us this morning. Your insights on the ground include Ongoing Operations to dislodge isis from mosul. Admiral rogers, i made a couple of references to cyber already, and thats for good reason. Of the many difficult challenges we will discuss this morning, nothing worries me more than the threat of a wellplanned, well executed widescale attack on the Computer Networks and systems that make america work. From banking and health care to military and Critical Infrastructure, the functionality of our modern society is dependent on computers. The dni statement reads, and i quote, nearly all informations systems will be at risk for years. That alarms me. Admiral rogers, i look forward to hearing from you on this line of assessments. Director cardillo, youre at the nexus of Data Collection and and analysis. Given the complexity of what we are being confronted with and the Global Nature of what this country faces, expectations are of nga are high. We know that the ic cannot be everywhere at once, but that is still kind of what we look to the nga to do. I would appreciate your sense of what nga analytic strengths are today and what the role of commercial imagery is in the future. Director mccabe, welcome to the table and into the fray. To the extent possible, i hope you will discuss the bureaus assessment of the terrorist threat within our borders. Your agents are often our last line of defense here at home and i will say, continue to do outstanding work. We are fortunate to have six people with the experience and the dedication that we have today. What i would like to highlight for my colleagues, the committee will be holding a classified hearing today at 1 30. I will do everything i can to make sure that the essence you ask in this open session are appropriate to the venue we are in. I would ask you to think about that long and hard and if there is a question, to move to a staffer to ask him whether this is the appropriate area and if you, as our witnesses, feel there is something you cannot sufficiently answer in an open setting, you will pause long enough to get my attention and we will try to make sure that we moved to the appropriate setting. With that, i turn to the vicechairman for any comments you might make. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for your leadership on this committee. Witnesses, its good to see you all, but it is impossible to ignore that one of the leaders of the Intelligence Committee is not here with us today. The president s firing of director comey tuesday night was a shocking development. The timing of the dismissal, to me and others, is especially troubling. And if there was any coordination in the campaign or efforts to interfere in the election. If it was related to this investigation, that is truly unacceptable. We were scheduled to hear directly from director comey today in open session. We and the American People. We anticipate asking director comey a series of questions about his actions as they relate to the russians. President trumps actions this week cost us the opportunity to get at the truth, at least for today. You may wonder, a bit, how seriously i wonder how the white house continues to dismiss this investigation. This administration doesnt take the investigation to seriously. It is important to restate the importance of the independence and integrity. This is important to maintaining the principal. Actions have the potential to undermine that confidence, and that should be deeply concerning, no matter belong to. Which Political Party g to. These developments make the investigation into the russian influence on 2016 u. S. President ial election even more important. While it is clear to me now, more than ever that an independent special counsel must be appointed, make no mistake, our committee will get to the bottom of what happened during the 2016 president ial election. And again, i want to complement the chairman on his work. His actions will do nothing to undermine the resolve to see where it leads. We hope to speak to mr. Comey. Mr. Mccabe, i did not necessarily expect to see you here today. We do not know how long you will be acting fbi director. I will want to make sure that my first question to you, even in this public setting, will be for you to assure the committee that if you come under any political influence from the white house or others to squash this investigation or impede it in any way, that you will let the committee know. This investigation has had its ups and downs. Again, some, including myself, have at times been frustrated with the pace. We will no doubt face other challenges in the future. Ups and downs and bumps, sometimes, is how bipartisanship works, its a constant struggle but one worth making, and im proud of how members of this committee on both sides of the aisle have conducted themselves in one of the most challenging political environments we have ever seen. At the same time, chairman burr and i have put this investigation on a solid, bipartisan footing. In spite of the events in the last 24 hours, i intend to maintain the committees focus on the investigation. Recent actions only increase the burden of responsibility on all of us to be sure that we live up to this challenge and uncover the truth, wherever that leads. There is obviously consensus agreement among u. S. Intelligence committee the exact russia actively intervened in the 2016 president ial elections. Nor do i imagine any member of this committee was surprised to see the exact same russian playbook was used in the French Elections. No one should forget, we had some of the folks in from the German Services recently, there was a hacking into the german bundestag. Its fair to say that the germans should be looking for more Cyber Attacks with their Upcoming National elections in september. In short, russias direct interference in the democratic process around the globe is a direct assault that we must work on together, and it is clearly one of the Top Worldwide threats. That being said, gentlemen, i want to start again by thanking you for your service to the nation. I want to particularly note that director coats, testifying before this committee for the First Time Since his confirmation, dan, i know that were ready for retirement, and i thank you both for being willing to serve one more time. I also want to recognize the men and women that you represent here today. These thousands of dedicated intelligence professionals toil in the shadows, put their lives on the line, and make sacrifices most of us will never know. I also want to make sure that they know that i appreciate their efforts and am proud to represent them not only as the vice chair of the Intelligence Committee, but as a senator from virginia where so many of those intelligence professionals live. Our annual worldwide threat hearing is an important opportunity to review the threats and challenges we face as a nation. Obviously, these threats continue to multiply. As the world becomes more complex and challenging, good intelligence gives leaders a heads up on the challenges that they need to address. The Intelligence Community in many ways is the nations Early Warning system. However, a fire alarm only works if you Pay Attention to it. You cannot ignore it just because you do not like what its telling you. Similarly, we need to make sure that all policymakers Pay Attention to the warnings provided by you, the independent, nonpartisan intelligence professionals. Since the second world war, america has relied on Global Systems of alliances, institutions, and norms since to ensure our stability and prosperity. Today, many challenges threaten that system. Countries, like china and russia, are challenging many of the global institutions. In many cases, they are seeking to undercut and delegitimize. We must Work Together and stand vigilant. Similarly, rogue states like north korea have sought to undercut the global nonproliferation regime. Obviously, north korea is one of the most pressing issues our country faces. Admiral rogers, as the chairman mentioned, we all share an enormous concern about the upside and downside of these technologies and the asymmetrical threats propose by cyber and other technology actors. I would add as well, director cardillo, the dominance in terms of overhead is at threat from emerging nations. Terrorist groups and extremist s are able to access these technologies. While isis continue to suffer losses in syria, iraq, and libya, it unfortunately continues to spread hateful ideology to social media communications. Gentlemen, i only lightly touched on a few of the challenges we face. I look forward to the discussion we are about to have an eye , and i thank you for being here. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Sen. Burr thank you, mr. Vice chairman. For member purposes, we have a vote scheduled on the floor at 11 00. It is the intent of the chair and the vice chair that we will rotate the gavel so that the hearing continues through. Members will be recognized by seniority for five minutes. When we conclude the open session with hopefully enough of a gap for the witnesses to have some lunch, we will reconvene at 1 30. The afternoon vote to my knowledge is not set yet, but he we will work around that. So, plan to be back at the skiff by 1 30 for that hearing to start. With that, director coats . The floor is yours. Dir. Coats chairman burr, vice thank you forr, the opportunity to appear before you today. Im here with my colleagues from across the community. Im sure that i speak for my colleague, mike pompeo, new director of the cia, the job we have inherited, an Intelligence Community with leadership professionals and intelligence expertise that is exceptional. It is a great privilege to hold these positions and to know that we have the support from across 17 agencies relative to gathering intelligence and analyzing and synthesizing that intelligence. Several of those leaders are sitting here today, and we are most appreciative of their contributions to their country and to this issue. The threat environment is ever expanding and it has challenge the ic to stay ahead of the adversary. It has not been an easy task. Given the tasks we face around the world, the ic has worked to collect, analyze, and we appreciate very much the support from your committee these threats. We will give the president , the congress, and other policymakers the best and most integrated intelligence we could assemble. In the interest of time and on behalf of my colleagues at the table, i will discuss just some of the many challenging threats that we currently face. The Intelligence Communitys written statements for the record submitted earlier discussed these and many other threats. Let me start with north korea. North korea is an increasingly grave National Security threat to the United States because of its growing missile and nuclear capabilities. Kim jongun is attempting to prove that he can strike the u. S. Mainland with a Nuclear Weapon. He has taken steps towards creating a mobile intercontinental holistic missile, but it have not yet been flight tested. North korea updated its constitution 2012 to declare itself a nuclear power. Its officials consistently state that Nuclear Weapons are the basis for regime survival, suggesting kim does not intend to negotiate them away. Difficulties regarding north koreas isolation caused the ic to dedicate more resources to this challenge. It requires some of our most talented professionals to warn leaders of impending actions and of the longterm implications of their strategic weapons programs. In syria, we assess that the regime will maintain its momentum on the battlefield, provided as likely as it maintains support from the iran and russia. The continuation of the syrian conflict will worsen. Already disastrous conditions for syrians and regional states. Furthermore, on april 4, the Syrian Regime used nerve agents arin against the opposition in what is probably the largest chemical attack i by the regime since august of 2013. The Syrian Regime probably used chemical weapons along the battlefront in late march, threatening key infrastructure. We assess that syria is probably both willing and able to use cw, chemical warfare, in future attacks, but we do not know if they plan to do so. Him hi we are still acquiring and continuing to analyze all intelligence related to the question of whether russian officials have a foreknowledge of these attacks before april. As we learn this information, we will certainly share it with this committee. Cyber threats continue to represent a critical National Security issue for the United States for two key reasons. First, our adversaries are becoming bolder, more capable, and more adept at using cyberspace to threaten our interests and shape realworld outcomes. The number of adversaries grows as nationstates, terrorist groups, criminal organizations and others continue to develop cyber capabilities. Secondly, the potential impact of these Cyber Threats is amplified by the ongoing integration of technology into our Critical Infrastructure and into our daily lives. Our relationships and businesses already rely on social media and Communication Technologies and on Critical Infrastructure, and it is becoming increasingly reliant on the internet. As such, this raises the potential for physical, economic, and psychological consequences were a cyber attack or exportation event occurs. The worldwide threat of terrorism is geographically diverse and multifaceted. It poses a continuing challenge to the United States for our allies and partners who seek to counter it. Isis is experiencing territorial losses in iraq and syria with persistent Counterterrorism Operations degrading its strength. However, isis will continue to be an active terrorist threat to the United States due to its Proven Ability to directly and inspire attacks against a wide range of targets around the world. Outside of a rack in syria, isis is seeking to foster interconnectedness among its global branches and networks, align efforts to their strategy, and withstand counterisis efforts. We assess that they maintain the capability to directly enable, assist, and inspire transnational attacks. Al qaedas affiliates continue to pose a significant terrorist threat overseas and have remained primarily focused on local and regional conflicts. Homegrown violent extremists remain the most frequent and unpredictable terrorist threat to the United States homeland. This threat will persist, with many attacks happening with little or no warning. In turkey, tensions might escalate, rapidly and unpredictably, in 2017 as the governments consolidation of power, crackdowns on dissent, and restrictions on free media continue. Let me know take just a quick run through some key areas of the middle east. In iraq, baghdads primary focus through 2017 will be recapturing and stabilizing mosul and other territories inhabited by isis. Isis in iraq is preparing to they continueer, in their insurgency and terrorist campaign. We assess that iraq will still face serious challenges to stability, political viability, territoriald integrity, even as the threat from isis is reduced. Reconstruction costs billions of dollars in ethnic sectarian and political reconciliation will be an enduring challenge. In tehran, they want to preserve the joint conference a plan of action as they view the deal as a means to remove sanctions while preserving some computer capabilities. The implementation of the deal has extended the amount of time that iran would need to produce fissile material for a Nuclear Weapon from a few months to about a year. Malignant activities to continue, however. It ran provides arms, financing, and training to shia fighters in syria to support the a sob assad regime. Iran has sent hundreds of their own forces, including members of the Islamic Revolutionary guard corps and the irgc see force to syria as advisors. In yemen, we assess that the fighting will almost certainly houthie between the Alliance Forces and the mne government led by the assad coalition. Either side is able to achieve decisive results through military force at this point. Al qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has exploited the conflict and the collapse of government authorities to gain recruits and allies to expand their influence. In south asia, the Intelligence Community assessment of the political and security situation in afghanistan will almost certainly deteriorate through 2018. Even with a modest increase in military assistance by the United States and its partners. This deterioration is undermined by its dire economic situation. Afghanistan will struggle to curb its dependence on external support until he contains the insurgency or reaches a Peace Agreement with the taliban. Meanwhile, we assess that the taliban and is likely to continue to make gains, especially in rural areas. Afghan security performance will likely worsen due to a combination of taliban operations and combat calories, poor Logistical Support and leadership. Pakistan is concerned about international isolation, seeing its position through the prism of the Rising International status in india and its deepening ties to the United States. Pakistan will likely turn to china to offset its isolation, empowering a relationship that will help beijing into the indian ocean. In addition, islamabad has failed to curb militants in pakistan. These groups present a sustained threat to the u. S. Interest in the region and continue to plan and conduct attacks in india and afghanistan. Pakistan is also expanding its Nuclear Arsenal and expanding tactical Nuclear Weapons, potentially lowering the threshold further use. Let me know turn to russia. We assess that russia is likely to be more aggressive, and informed, in global affairs, more unpredictable in its approach to the United States, and more authoritarian in its approach to domestic policies and politics. We assess that russia will continue to look to leverage its military support to the assad regime to drive a political settlement process in syria on their terms. Moscow is also likely to use russias military intervention in syria, in conjunction with efforts to capitalize on the fears of a growing isis and extremist threat, to expand its role in the middle east. We assess that the moscow s strategic objectives in the ukraine, maintaining longterm influence over kiev and frustrating attempts to integrate into western institutions will remain unchanged in 2017. Russian military intervention in Eastern Ukraine continues more than two years after attempts to iiey minsk to agreement. Russia continues to exert military and diplomatic pressure to course ukraine into moscows interpretation of the political provisions of the agreement. Among them, constitutional amendments that would effectively give moscow a veto over kievs feature decisions. China will continue, we assess, to develop an active foreign policy, especially within the asiapacific region, highlighted by a firm stance of competing territorial claims in the east and south china seas, relations with taiwan, and its pursuit of Economic Engagement across east asia. China views a Strong Military as a critical element in advancing its interests and will also pursue interests in its one belt, one Road Initiative and its economic role across asia through infrastructure projects. Just a quick look at subsaharan africa, home to more than one billion people and expected to double in size by midcentury. African governments face the threat of coups, uprisings, widespread violence, and terrorist attacks, including from al qaeda and its isis affiliates. In the western hemisphere, venezuelas popular autocratic government will turn to increasingly oppressive means to maintain political opponents and street unrest. Oil has been the cash cow, but mismanagement has led to the declining output and revenue. We assess that the venezuelan government will struggle to contain inflation, make payments, and pay for imports. Goods and medicines. Mexicos government will focus on domestic priorities to prepare for the 2018 president ial election while seeking to limit the fallout of strained relations with the United States. Public demand for Government Action against crime and corruption will add to political pressure. As cuba heads into the final year of preparations for a historic transition into a nextgeneration leader in early 2018, the governments focus will be on preserving control while managing recession. Cuba, which continues to use strained democracy activism blames the slowing economy on lower commodity prices. The u. S. Embargo and the economic crisis in venezuela as a key benefactor. Let me make a statement on the threat of Illegal Drugs. The threat to the United States from foreignproduced drugs, especially heroin and synthetic meth, andids, cocaine, has grown significantly in the past few years. This is contributing to previously unseen levels of u. S. Drugrelated mortality, which now exceeds all other u. S. Causes of interest death. Finally, i would like to make a few points here that are important to the ic going forward. As you are all very aware, section 702, the pfizer amendments act, is due to expire at the and of the year. I cannot stress enough the importance of this authority in how it does its work to keep americans safe. I know that that is shared by everyone at this table. Section 702 is an extremely effective tool to protect the nation from terrorists and other threats. As i described in my confirmation hearing, it is instrumental to so much of the critical work in protecting the American People of threats from abroad. The Intelligence Community is committed to working with all of you in both classified and unclassified sessions, to assure that you understand not only how we use our authorities, but also how we protect privacy and Civil Liberties in the process. Additionally, many of you have asked me as part of my confirmation process about the status of the ic. , its effectiveness and efficiency, and how it could be improved. As part of the administrations goal of an effective and efficient government, the odni has already begun a review of the entire Intelligence Community, to include the office of the dni and to answer the very questions about how we can make our process even more streamlined, efficient, and effective. My office is proud to lead this review, and i look forward to the confirmation of my deputy to shepherd this process to completion, and i have total confidence in her that she has the capacity and capability to effectively lead this effort. The recently passed intelligence authorization bill also includes the requirement for a review of the ic, focused on structures and authorities 10 years beyond the intelligence reforms of the mid2000s. Between these two reviews, i am confident that i will be able to report back to the committee with constructive recommendations on the best ways forward for the whole of the ic. In the short time i have been on this job, i have learned that the ic is full of dedicated, creative, patriotic men and women who are committed to keeping america safe. We must retain this posture while looking for ways to improve. In conclusion, the Intelligence Committee will continue its tireless work against these and all threats, but we will never be omniscient. Although we have extensive insight into many threats and places around the world, we have gaps in others. Therefore we very much appreciate the support provided by this committee and will continue to work with you to be sure that the Intelligence Community has the capabilities it needs to meet its many mission needs. With that, we are ready to take your questions. Sen. Burr director coats, thank you for that thorough and comprehensive testimony on behalf of the Intelligence Committee. Community. Dan, quite frankly, you make us proud, seeing one of our own had now head the entire Intelligence Community, and i want to thank you and marsha, personally, for your willingness to do that. Dir. Coats thank you. Sen. Burr we are anxious for your deputy to be considered by the committee. Would you please send us the nomination . Coats no one is more anxious than me. Burr i am sure. Im going to recognize myself for five minutes. Director mccabe . Did you ever hear director comey tell the president that he was not the subject of an investigation . Excuse me, did you ever hear director comey tell the president that he was not the subject of an investigation . Do your microphone, please. Dir. Mccabe rookie mistake, im sorry. Sir, i cant comment on any conversations the director may have had with the president. Sen. Burr ok. General steward . There was an expected deterioration of conditions in afghanistan. Can you give us dias assessment of the situation today in a chemist and and what would change that deterioration . Gen. Steward thank you, mr. Chairman. I make two trips there every year. That we i get on the ground my own personal assessment of how things are going. I was there about six weeks ago. The ndsf, two years into taking control of the security environment, there were mixed results in the past year. Those mixed results can characterized th in the security environment as stalemate. Left unchecked, it will deteriorate in the favor of belligerence. We had to do something very different than we have been doing in the past. Let me back up just a little bit to talk about the fact that the taliban failed to meet any of their strategic objectives that they outlined during the last fighting season. They control node District Centers and were able to execute high visibility attacks that caused a psychological effect in a debilitating effect, maintaining their own influence on the area, controlling none of the large intercepts. Having said that, the Afghan National Defense Security forces did not meet their force fourthgeneration objectives. They had some success in training of the force, they were able to manage a crisis better than they have in the past. They were able to deploy forces but failed, in my opinion, to deploy the isr and the fire support to make them as effective on the battlefield as possible. Unless we change something where we introduce either u. S. Forces, nato forces, changing the balance of forces on the ground, changing the fighting outputs on the ground, or adding additional training and advising capability at lower levels than we do now, the situation will continue to deteriorate and we will lose the gains that we have invested in in the last several years. They have got to get more trainers below the core level, i believe. Not sure how far down. Or they would have to get more personnel on the ground, generating greater fire support, greater use of isr, or this will in fact deteriorate further. Sen. Burr thank you, general. Admiral rogers, every aspect of our daily lives continues to become part of a traceable, trackable interaction in the environment, now known as the internet of things. In addition, Artificial Intelligence has increasingly enabled technology to become autonomous. What is the ics Current Assessment of the everchanging capabilities of the internet of things and what it presents . Adm rogers it represents an opportunity but from a defense perspective, it represents great concern. Where the ability to harness literally begins of devices that are built for very simple day to day activities can suddenly be tied together and focused and oriented to achieve a specific outcome. We have seen this with denial of service attempts. A couple of Significant Companies on the east coast of the United States in the last year. This will be a trend in the future as part of the discussions we are having in the private sector with this being a problem that is common to both of us. How can we Work Together to understand this technology and ask ourselves how to ensure that its not turned around against us . Sen. Burr thank you for that. Admiral rodgers, i will probably put this to you as well. Section 702 of the amendments act authorized the government to target only nonu. S. Persons, reasonably believed to be located outside the United States, for the purposes of acquiring foreign intelligence. Section 702 cannot be used to target any person located inside the United States. The law prohibits the government from reverse targeting. That is targeting a nonu. S. Person outside the United States, specifically for the purpose of collecting the communications of a person inside the United States. 702sa uses Collection Authority to identify and disrupt terrorists and other National Security threats. How would you characterize the 702 authority and its importance to the current intelligence collection platform overall . Adm. Rogers if we were to lose at 702s authorities, we would be degraded into what terrorist actors and nationstates, criminal elements are doing that is of concern to our nation and our friends and allies. 702 has provided us insight that is focused on counterterrorism and counter proliferation, understanding what the nationstates are doing, it has given us tremendous insight into the Network Defense arena. Highlighting much of what was in the Intelligence Committees assessment in 2016, it was informed by knowledge that we gained from 702 authority. Sen. Burr thank you for that. Vice chair . You. Warner thank i have got a couple of questions that hopefully will require only yes or no answers. First, for the whole panel, the assembled leadership of the Intelligence Committee, the believe the Intelligence Committee assessment accurately characterizes the extent that the russian intelligence agencies responsible for the hacking and leaking of information and using of this information in order to influence our elections . A yes or no will suffice. Yes, sir. Yes, senator. Yes, i do. Yes. Warner i guess the next presumption, i will not even ask this question, that Community Assessment was unanimous and is not a piece of fake news or evidence of some other individual nation state other than russia, so i appreciate that for the record. For the record. I warned you, mr. Mccabe, i have to get you on the record. You have committed to informing this committee of any effort to interfere with the fbis Ongoing Investigation into links between russia and the Trump Campaign . Dir. Mccabe i absolutely do. Sen. Warner thank you so much for that. In light of whats happened in the last 48 hours, its critically important that we have that assurance, and i hope you will relay at least, from me, to the Extraordinary People who work at the fbi that this Committee Supports the efforts, theirts them, supports professionalism, and supports their independence. I will, sir, thank you. Sen. Warner in light of the fact that we just saw French Elections that were deja vu all over again in terms of the release of a series of emails against mr. Macron days before the election and the fact that this committee continues to investigate the type of tactics that russia has used, where do we stand as a country in terms of preparation to make sure that this doesnt happen again in 2018 and 2020 . Where have we moved in terms of collaboration with state voter files, in terms of working more with the tech community, particularly the platform entities, in terms of how we can better assure real news versus fake news. Is there some general sense, director coats . I know you have only been in the of time, short period but but while it was russia in 2016, other nationstates want similar types of assaults. Dir. Coats we will continue to use all the assets that we have in terms of collection and analysis relative to the been andinfluence has potentially could be in future. Russians have spread this across the globe. Interestingly enoug,h i met with the Prime Minister of montenegro. The latest nation to join nato. Their main topic was russian interference in their political system. It sweeps across europe and other places and it is clear that the russians have upped their game using social media in ways we havent seen before. So it is a great threat to our democratic process. Our job here is to provide the best intelligence of the cancer the policymakers as they develop a strategy for how to best reflect a response to this. Sen. Warner we have all expressed his concern, but since this does not fall neatly into any particular agencys jurisdiction, who has taken the point on interacting with these Platform Companies facebook, twitter who is taking the point in terms of dhs . I imagine that in terms of state boards of elections, if we could get a brief answer on that . I have one more question for admiral rogers. Dir. Coats there is theously our office takes point, but there is contribution from agencies across the ic. You might ask director pompeo to address that, and others might want to address that also. Each of the agencies, to the extent that they can, have had and have the capacity, whatever cia, they will provide information to us that we want to use as a basis for policymakers relative to a grand strategy. I am not aware right now of any i think we are still assessing the impact. We have not put a grand strategy together. That would not be our purview. We would provide the basis for the intelligence and the foundation for what that strategy would be. Sen. Warner my hope would be to be proactive about this. We dont want to be sitting here, looking back after the 2018 election cycle. Admiral rogers, do you have any doubt that the russians were involved in the interventions in the French Elections . Adm. Rogers let me phrase it this way, we are aware of some russian activity directed against the French Election process, as i previously said before Congress Earlier this week, we reached out to tell our french counterparts to say we had become aware of this activity what are you seeing . Im not in a position to understand the extent in the french infrastructure. Im not able to make a whole simple declaratory statement. Sen. Warner thank you, mr. Chairman. Sen. Burr senator rubio . Sen. Rubio thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Mccabe, without going into the specifics of an individual investigation, the American People want to know, has the dismissal of mr. Comey interrupted, stopped, or negatively impacted any of the work, investigation, or ongoing projects at the federal bureau of investigation . Dir. Mccabe as you know, senator, the work of the fbi fbiand women of the continues despite changes in circumstance any decision, so there has been no effort to impede our investigation today. Simply put, sir, you cannot stop the men and women of the fbi from doing the right thing, protecting the American People and upholding the constitution. Sen. Rubio this is for all the members of the committee. It has been widely reported that this Laboratory Software is used by hundreds of thousands, if not millions of americans. To each of our witnesses i would ask, would any of you become with Kaspersky Lab software on your computers . Resounding no from me. No. No, sir. No, senator. Sen. Rubio director pompeo, as was mentioned in the directors statements, Armed Civilian groups, collectivos, they have been armed in the streets for the purposes of defending the regime, for lack of a better term, by protesters. We are aware that the maduro regime has a cozy relationship hezbollah, a terrorist organization, and links to narco trafficking. Among the stockpiled weapons, they are able to ask for this russian variant of stinger missiles. Director pompeo, if you could comment on the risks that i believe exist that as these groups become more desperate, potentially operating at some point outside the control of the regime, running around, also in search of money and food and anything else they want to get their hands on, the threats of any advanced weaponry such as i mentioned, getting transferred to or sold to the fark, eight terrorist organization in mexico, or even terrorist organizations on the black market, is that a real threat . Is that something we should be cognizant of . Senator it is a , real threat. It gets more desperate there by the hour. The risk of these collectivos operating without control increases as time goes on as well. In an unclassified setting, i am not sure about sharing what we know, but we have not seen any of those major arms transfers take place. We havent had any evidence that they are taking place today, but those stockpiles exist not only in that regime but other places as well. There are plenty of weapons running around there and the risk is real, serious, and ultimately a threat to south and Central America in addition to venezuela. Sen. Rubio staying in the western hemisphere for a moment, and this potentially is also for director mccabe and director pompeo, i continue to be concerned about the potential and i believe is a reality of a concerted effort on the part of the cuban government to recruit and unwittingly enlist American Business executives and even other local and state and political leaders in order for them to influence u. S. Policymaking and cuba, particularly the lifting of the embargo. With this attack be consistent to what we have seen in the ,ast from other nationstates including from the regime in cuba . Dir. Pompeo i will let mr. Mccabe answer, but yes, of course. This is frankly consistent with the attempt to interfere in the United States being not limited to russia. The cubans have deep ties and it is in their deepest tradition to take american visitors and do their best to influence in a way that is adverse to u. S. Interests. Mr. Mccabe yes, i fully agree. We share your concerns. Opinion of is it the all of you that even as we focus on 2016 and the efforts leading up to the election, efforts to influence policymaking here in the United States visavis the theians are ongoing, that russians continue to be active, even at this moment, to try through the use of multiple different ways to influence the political debate and the decisions made in american politics, particularly as they pertain to russias interests world . The it is an ongoing threat, not somebody something that happened in the past . Yes, sir, that is right. It is right. In some sense, though, we ought to put in context of this has been going on for a long time. There is nothing new. Only the cost has been lessened, the cost of doing it. I would just add that the use of cyber, social media significantly increased the impact and the capabilities. Obviously that has been done for ,ears and years, even decades but the ability to have, to use thatctedness and all that provides that it does not provide before, they have their game where it is having a significant impact. Isi would highlight cyber allowing them to access massive information in massive quantities that they were not able to at the same level previously, and that is just another tool. Manipulation, outright lies, but in other times actually dumping raw data, which is what we saw during the last president ial cycle. S senator feinstein. Senator feinstein thank you very much mr. Chairman. There is obviously more than one threat to our country, but i would argue the greatest danger to the United States is north korea. I am one of those who has been very worried in trying to follow this as close as possible. In the statement for the record, you state, quote, north koreas Nuclear Weapons and missile programs will continue to pose a serious threat to u. S. Interests and to the security environment in east asia in 2017. You go on to state, pyongyang is committed to developing a longrange Nuclear Armed missile that is capable of posing a direct threat to the United States. These assessments combined with north koreas behavior, recent Ballistic Missile launches, and proximity to u. S. Forces and allies in asia, is deeply concerning. For the purpose of this open hearing, could each of you express the threat posed by north korea in this public setting, and then address most importantly, some of the specific actions we are taking as a nation . Some of it you may want to do in the closed hearing later. I think we could get into greater detail in the closed hearing. But it is clear that we have assessed this as a very significant, potentially substantial threat to the United States that has to be addressed. You are aware there has been considerable discussion among the policymakers, without providing intelligence, with the administration relative to steps moving forward. General mattis has taken a major role as well as secretary of state and others. The interaction with the chinese of late, we think can play a significant role in terms of how we deal with this. We have dedicated a very significant amount of our intelligence resources to the issue of north korea. I think we would look forward to going deeper into all that. Senator feinstein let me ask this is it possible in this hearing to estimate when they will have an intercontinental Ballistic Missile capable of taking a Nuclear Warhead . I think it will be best if we save that those kinds of details for the closed session. Senator feinstein can you say in the session how effective china has been in stopping some of the testing . Let me try to answer that as best i can. I actually just returned from korea last week. I had a chance to be with our great soldiers of the republic of korea army on the front lines. Theyre doing amazing work in a difficult condition. With respect to the chinese, they have made efforts in a way they have not made before. In an effort to close down the trade that they have an putting diplomatic pressure as well on the north koreans. Intelligence would suggest were going to need more to shake free the terribly challenging problem. And they could do more and have the capacity to do more. Senator feinstein could you be specific . Have they entirely stopped cold . To what degree have they reduced it . How about oil and other commodities . I would prefer to detail that the classified setting, but there have been sure on coal which have been significant. If i could,stein senator, north korea has declared his intent. Said it publicly, it produces propaganda images that shows their intent to develop intercontinental missiles, Nuclear Armed. But what we have not seen them do is do a complete end to end test with an icbm with a nuclear device. In the closed session we might be able to talk about how close they are to doing it. Developing a wide range of Missile Technology, short, intermediate, longrange Missile Technology they will put those together at some point but we are not seen them do that testing end to end. Missile launch, intercontinental range, miniaturization, and survival of reentry. But they are on that path and committed to doing that. I would just add on top of that that they are in a race. He is pushing very hard on the accelerator. This full panel as well aware of that and doing everything in our power to make sure that we give you and our customers the advantage to win that race. Senator feinstein if i might just say, you have given us their good information, very solid information. It is much appreciated. I think it is time for the American People to begin to understand that as the director said, we do in fact have a next agile threat we have been existential threat in the Pacific Ocean and we need to come to grips with it. Director coats, let me join everyone else and welcome me welcoming you back to the committee. Please come along with others, you take this responsibility. I want to talk just a little bit about the two executive orders on vetting that the president has been challenged on in court. My understanding is as the dni involved in that process, is that right . The screening process, is that something that reports up through you . Youre talking about the classification process . The extreme vetting where the president the First Executive order was january 27 with the president said we would suspend refugee admissions from certain countries for 90 days pending a review. There is also 120 days mentioned in that order. Since we are beyond 90 days and approaching 120 days, my real question is in spite of what is happening outside of the organization, are we continuing to pursue that timeline and are we about to get to the 120 days of having that review period behind us . I would like to get back to you with the specifics relative to the days away what has been done to this particular date and are we on target. Obviously this is going forward. I dont have the details in front of me right now, but i would be happy to get the information for you. I would be very concerned, frankly, if we are now close to 120 days into that timeframe to find out that the 120 days did not get the job done because we were waiting to figure out how the order could be properly enforced. I would be very interested in that. On the cyber front, director cardella, i know among other things your organization has conducted what you would call had caps ons hackathons. What has that done in terms of bringing other people into the discussion of how we protect ourselves better from these Cyber Attacks . We are quite proud at nga of our history of support to the community and to you, but through predominantly, historically closed systems, government owned systems, as the committee has already discussed in responded clearly, the hightech reality of our world, the interconnectedness of the internet etc. We are trying to do is take that Historic Success of our expertise and experience and engage with that community in a way that we can better leverage our data in a way to inform and warn you. So, i am trying to tap into the agility and innovation of that community. We use these hackathons to put out challenge questions so we can engage with industry and academia in a way for to help us do our job better. We had a witness before this committee on march 30 in an open hearing, clint watts. He said, quote, the Intelligence Community is very bias against openSource Information. That ends his quote. In terms of geospatial, what are you doing there with open Source Information . We are engaging, as admiral rogers mentioned. There is an upside to this connectedness in the fact the commercial market and commercial imagery market is getting into a business that was prior government only entity, it has great advantage. And we seek to build on that and take advantage of those of elements. We also need to go in eyes wide open and realize there is a risk. I dont have a bias, i have an awareness, and appreciation for this open development and innovation. And my commitment is to smartly gauge with it to make sure that we use smartly engage with it and realize it is a risk. Do you think it is a fair criticism that the Intelligence Community is bias against using open Source Information . I think historically that may well have been true. I dont think that is the case today. We have an enormous or principles open source enterprise. We get information that is not stolen secrets but open Source Information to the right place at the right time to help inform the intelligence we provide. Today, i would say that is an accurate. Thank you director and chairman. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Let me highlight one issue then ask a question, director coats, about another issue and i would invite comment from anyone who has something they want to offer. I have been increasingly concerned about Foreign Governments hiring lobbyists here in washington, and unbeknownst to members of congress, actually lobbying congress to enact policies which may be contrary to the best interests of the American People. The Foreign Agent registration act provides some level of transparency for that, what i just highlight that issue and we can come back to it at a later time because i want to ask you about another topic as well. The committee on Foreign Investment in the United States provides a very Important Role in determining whether there are Technology Transfers from the United States to Foreign Governments. And i was happy to see director coats, your comments on page four of your written statement specifically regarding chinas increasing effort to use investment as a way to improve a psychological capabilities technological capabilities. China continues to use an Aggressive Campaign to vacuum up u. S. Technologies however and whenever it can. Whether stealing it through cyber or buying it in the open market. Do you feel like the current process adequately provides protects against this vector, and are all almonds of u. S. Government cognizant of these vulnerabilities . I cant speak to how many agencies as cognizant as perhaps we should be, but it certainly think that given chinas aggressive approach relative to information gathering and all the things that you mentioned, merits a review of it in terms of whether or not and needs changes or innovations to address the aggressive, aggressive chinese actions not just against our countries but across the world. They clearly have a strategy through their investments. Started a major investment bank, you name it part of the world, the chinese are probably they are looking to put investments in. We have seen the situation in djibouti where they also had capability to their investment, strategic area on the horn of africa that he would not necessarily expect. But their active there and across the world. Their one road process opens their trade and what other interests they have to the indian ocean and the different ways to address nations that they have had difficulty connecting with. Its clearly an issue that we ought to take a look at. If i might clarify, two quick comments. It mostly deals with purchases. There are many ways you can exert significant control over the entity. That ought to be looked at. Second, there are many vectors. You mentioned several. Another places educational institutions. Many are coming here in good faith to learn what others are sent here with less noble undertakings and missions. The additional comment i was going to make is it is clear when watched china and other nations, they are gaining greater insight into our processes, the criteria we use to shape our decision process. I think that is also a concern we are aware of. I look forward to visiting you with the close session later on. Thank you. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. It is fair to say i disagree with director comey as much as anyone in this room, but the timing of this firing is wrong to anyone with a semblance of ethics. Director comey should be here this morning testifying to the American People about where the investigations he has been running stand. At our public hearing in january where he refused to discuss his investigation between russia and the trump associates, i stated my fear that if the information did not come out before inauguration day, it might never come out. With all the recent talk in recent weeks about whether there is evidence of collusion, i fear some colleagues have gotten that donald trump urged the russians to have his opponent. To hack his opponent. He also said repeatedly he loves wikileaks. It is not whether donald trump actively encouraged them to attack our democracy, he did. That is an established fact. The only question is whether he or someone associated with him coordinated with the russians. Mr. Mccabe, the president s letter to director comey asserted that on three separate occasions, the director informed him that he was not under investigation. Would it have been wrong for the director to inform him he was not under investigation . Yes or no . Im not going to comment on any conversations the director may have had. Im not asking that. Would it have been wrong for the director to have informed him he was not under investigation . Thats a yes or no answer. As you know, we typically dont answer that question. I will not comment on whether or not the director and the president had that conversation. Will you refrain from these kinds of alleged updates to the president anyone else in the white house . I will. Thank you. Director pompeo, one of the few key Unanswered Questions is why the president did fire Michael Flynn after attorney general yates warned the white house he could be blackmailed by the russians. Do you know about the acting attorney generals warning to the white house, or were you aware of the concerns behind the warning . I dont have any comment on that. Were you aware of the concerns behind the warning . I mean, this is a global threat. This is a global threat question. Were you aware . Tell me what global threat you are concerned with. I dont understand the question. The possibility of blackmail. Blackmail by an influential military official. That has real ramifications for the global threat. So, this is not about a policy implication, this is about the National Security adviser being vulnerable to blackmail by the russians. The American People deserve to know whether in these extraordinary circumstances, the cia kept them safe. Yes, the cia has kept america safe. And the people of the caa are committed to that and will remain committed to that. We will do that you wont answer the question. We will do that. You will not answer the question of whether or not you were aware of the concerns behind the gates warning yates warning . I dont know what you are referring to. I was not part of those conversations. I have no firsthand information with respect to the warning that was given. She did not make that warning to me. I cant answer the question as much as i would like to. Director coats, how concerned are you that a russian Government Oil company run by a putin croney could end up owning a significant percentage of u. S. Oil refining capacity, and what are you advising the committee on Foreign Investment in the United States about . I dont have specific information relative to that. I think that is something that potentially we could provide intelligence on in terms of with the situation might be. I would like you to furnish that in writing. One more question. There have been mountains of press stories, allegations about Financial Connections from trump and his associates. Matters are directly relevant to is,f dei, and my question when it comes to elicit russian money, and its potential to be longer on its way to the United States to be laundered on its way to the United States, what should we be concerned about we hear about Shell Company in moldova, the british version island i would like to get your Virgin Islands i would like to get your sense, director mccabe, what we should be most concerned about with elicit russian money and its potential to be laundered on the way to the United States . Abletor mccabe i am not to speak about specific investigations, but i will confirm those are issues that concern us greatly. They have traditionally and they do so more today as it becomes easier to conceal the origin and the track, and the destination of purpose of elicit money flows. The exchange of information becomes more clouded and obtuse, and it becomes harder and harder to get to those investigations to shed light on those issues. Thank you. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. The purpose of this hearing is to give the American People some insight into what we all do which they dont see, pretty much at all. So, i think what i want to do is i want to make an observation, and then i want to get your take on it anyone who wants to volunteer, and i will start with you, director coats, to volunteer. I have been on this committee all the time. Sessioneen on this through the administration, and i have been greatly impressed by the Current Administration hitting the ground running through the first 100 days as far as their engagement on intelligence matters, and their engagement with foreign countries. The National Media here is focused on domestic issues, which is of great interest to the American People, health government, and the and the media is not as focused s fast,administration and in my judgment, robust engagement with the intelligence communities around the world and with other governments. That it is good and it is aggressive, and i would like your impression of where we are going almost all of you had real engagement in the last administration, and all administrations are different. Director coats, you want to take that on start with . Director coats i would be happy to take that out. Most president s that come into office come with an agenda in mind in terms of what issues they would like to pursue. Many of them domestic issues that affect infrastructure, education a number of things, only to find that this is a dangerous world that the United States the threats that exist out there need to be given attention to. This president , who i think the perception was was not interested in that having director pompeo and i can certify that we have spent far more hours in the oval office than we anticipated. The president is a voracious consumer of information and asking questions, asking us to provide intelligence. We are both part of the process run through the National Security council. General mcmaster, all through the deputy committees and the principals committees, and hours ofrs time, looking at the threats,. Ow do we address those threats what is the intelligence that informs policymakers in terms of how they put a strategy in place. So, what i initially thought would be one or two times a week, 10, 15 minute quick briefs, has turned into every day, sometimes exceeding 45 minutes to an hour or more, just in briefing the president. We have i have brought along several of our directors to come and show the president what their agencies do, and how important it is that the information they provide for the basis of making policy decisions. Ciauld like to turn to my colleague here to let him give you and others to give their impression. That, but i did director pompeo, you sit in the same spot we all sit in the last several years, and i would kind of like your observations along the lines of director coats. Coatsor pompeo director had it right he and i spent time with the president , nts good, hard questions to make sure were doing our work in the right way. Secondly, you asked about administration in the world this has entered in places where the Previous Administration was completely absent. You all travel some. Ive now taken two trips, and they welcome American Leadership. They are not looking for American Leadership they are not looking for american troops or boots on the ground. They are looking for American Leadership. I could not agree with you more. They come here regulate. The fact the president has pulled the trigger twice as he has, and in a fashion that did not start a world war, and was watched by both our friends and our enemies has made a significant, and a huge difference as far as our standing in the world. My time is up. Director mccabe, you have several decades of Law Enforcement experience. Is it your experience that people who are innocent of wrongdoing typically need to be reassured they are not the subject of an investigation . Director mccabe no, sir. I ask ask that because im trying to make heads or tails of the letter from the present where he writes where i greatly appreciate you informing me on three separate occasions where i am not under investigation, and im trying to figure out why that made it into a dismissal letter. Let me going to something more direct director, has anyone in the white house spoken to you directly about the white house investigation . Director mccain nooks mccabe no,ain sir. Let me when did you last meet with the president , director mccabe . Thinkor mccabe i do not i may in a position to comment on that. I have met with the president this week, but i do not want to go into the details of that. But russia did not come up . Mccabe that is right. Thank you. Thatard in reports director comey had lost the confidence of rankandfile employees. You have been there for 21 years. Opinion, is it accurate that the rank and file no longer supported director comey . Dir. Mccabe no, sir, that is not accurate. , sir, that i work very, very closely with direct the director comey from moment he started at the fbi. I was his assistant director of National Security and work for him running the Washington Field office and i have served as deputy for the last year. I can tell you that i hold director comey in the absolute highest regard. I have the highest respect for his considerable abilities and his integrity, and it has been the greatest privilege and honor of my professional life to work with him. I can tell you also that enjoyed comey also broad support within the fbi, and still does to this day. We are a Large Organization 36,500 people across this country, across this globe. We have a diversity of opinions about many things, but i can confidently tell you that the majority the vast majority of fbi employees enjoyed a deep and positive connection to director comey. Thank you for your candor. Do you feel like you have the adequate resources for the existing investigations that the mr. Mccabe if you are referring to the russia investigation, i do. I believe we have the adequate resources to do it and we have restoreth we have resourced that investigation adequately. If you are talking about the counterintelligence threats we face across the spectrum, they get bigger and more challenging every day and resources become an issue over time. In terms of that investigation, i can assure you we are covered. Director coats, will come back. Would you agree it is a National Security risk to provide anssified information to individual who has been compromised by a Foreign Government . Mr. Coates as a broad matter, yes. If the attorney general came to you and said one of your employees was compromised, what sort of action would you take . Havewould take the action prescribed in our procedure relative to how we report this and how it is processed. It is a serious issue. I would be consulting with our Legal Counsel and Inspector General and others as to how best to proceed, but obviously, we would take action. Would one of the options be dismissal . Mr. Coats obviously. It very well could be dismissal. Andhank you, mr. Chairman mr. Vice chairman. Who is in charge of this very important investigation into russian attempts to influence our election still in charge . We have many agents involved in the investigation at many levels, so im not sure. The lead agent overseeing the investigation. Mr. Mccabe certainly, almost all the agents are still in their position. Has there been any curtailment of the fbis activities in this investigation since director comey was fired . Do not curtail our activities. Peopleknow, as our experience questions and are reacting to the developments this week, absolutely. Does that get in the way of our ability to pursue this or this or any other investigation . No, maam. We continue to focus on her mission and get the job done. Toator collins i want follow up on a question you are asked about. Press report yesterday indicated director comey requested Additional Resources from the Justice Department for the bureaus Ongoing Investigation into russian active measures. Request . Ware of that can you confirm that request was made . I cannot confirm that request was made. When we need resources, we make that request here. Requestot aware of that. That said, we dont typically request resources for an individual case. The russianelieve investigation is adequately resourced. You have also been asked a the letters. T its my understanding when an individual is the target of an investigation, at some point, a letter is sent out notifying the individual that hes a target. Is that correct . Mr. Mccabe no, maam, i do not believe thats correct. Therer collins so before is going to be an indictment, theres not a target letter sent out by the Justice Department . Mr. Mccabe not that im aware of. that isollins contrary to my understanding, but let me ask you the reverse mr. Mccabe im looking at it from the perspective of the investigators, so that is not part of our normal case investigative practice. Senator collins that would be the Justice Department . Im asking you isnt it Standard Practice when somebody is the target of an investigation and on the verge of being indicted that the Justice Department sends that individual what is known as a target letter . Mr. Mccabe im going to have to differ that to the department of justice. Perhaps you dont know the answer to this question, but is fbitandard practice for the to inform someone that they are not a target of an investigation . Mr. Mccabe it is not. Senator collins it would be unusual and not standard beenice for there to have a notification from the fbi director to President Trump or anyone else involved in this investigation informing him or her that that individual is not a target, is that correct . Going toe im not comment on what director comey may or may not have done. Senator collins im not asking you to comment on the case, just what is Standard Practice and not. Mr. Mccabe i am not aware of that being Standard Practice. Senator collins i want to follow up on senator wardens flashon and the attempted French Election. Group thatned the was behind the leaking of the information about the president elect of france. Tied a ptve publicly 28 two Russian Intelligence Services in the joint analysis report last year after the groups involvement in stealing data that was leaked in the runup to the elections in november. In a position to attribute the leaking that took lace prior to the French Election to be the result of activity by this group which is linked to cyber activity . Mr. Mccabe i dont think i have a complete picture with all the activity associated with france, but we are aware of specific russian activity, particularly in the last few weeks where we felt it was important enough that we reached out to our french counterparts and made sure they had awareness of what we were aware of and ask if theres something we are missing that you are seeing. Thank you for being here under difficult circumstances. Comeych 20th, director testified to the house of representatives i have been authorized by the department of justice to confirm the fbi as part of our Counterintelligence Mission is investigating the russian governments efforts to interfere in the 2016 president ial election, and that includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and the russian government and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and russian efforts. Investigation, this would include an assessment of whether crimes were committed. Is that statement still accurate . Mr. Mccabe yes, sir, it is. How many agents are assigned to this project . How may personnel generally in the fbi . I cant really answer those sorts of questions in this forum. Pressng a white house spokesperson said this was one of the smallest things on the plate of the of ei. Is that an accurate statement . Fbi. E it to bee we consider a highly significant investigation. Senator king you would not characterize it as one of the smallest things you are investigating . Mr. Mccabe i would not. King let me change the subject. We have been talking about russia and their involvement in this election. One of the issues of concern to me and perhaps i can direct this i will directed to anybody on the panel. Russiangation of involvement in our electoral systems, is that an issue that is of concern and what we know about that and is it being followed up on by this investigation . Is that part of your investigation . Im talking about statelevel election infrastructure. So obviously not discussing any specific investigation in detail, but the interference in the u. S. Democratic process is the one that causes us great concern and quite likely, its one we have spent a lot of time working on over the last several months. Made inct comments response to what director coats isdled, part of that process to understand the inclinations. F our foreign adversaries weve seen it once and we are better positioned to see at the next time and we are better able to improve not only are coordination primarily through dhs andrtment of the their expensive network, to the state and local election infrastructure, but to interact with those folks and put them in a better position to defend against whether it is Cyber Attacks or any influencedriven interaction. Is aor king i think that very important part of this issue. Amiral rogers, yesterday, camera crew from russia was allowed into the oval office. Was there any consultation with you in regard to that action in terms of the risk of some kind of cyber penetration or communications in that incident . Dmiral rogers no senator king your agency was not consulted . I was notgers consulted. I was not aware of where the images came from. Director coats, you leave the Intelligence Community. At all withsulted regard to the firing of director comey . Mr. Coats i was not. Senator king there was no discussion with you . Mr. Coats there were no discussions. Senator langford mommy run through some quick questions on this. Thank you for being here. The may hit some high points of the things ive heard already to confirm. You have the resources you need for the Russian Investigation, is that correct . There are not limitations, you have what you need . The actions of jim comey have not curtailed the investigation . It is still moving forward . Mr. Mccabe the investigation will move forward, absolutely. No agents have been relieved that are doing the investigation . Mr. Mccabe no. To completei able this a fair and expeditious way because of the release of jim comey . Mr. Mccabe it is my belief the fbi will pursue this vigorously and completely. Do you need someone else to take this away from you and someone else to do this . Mr. Mccabe no, sir. Tracking through the worldwide threats, theres a section on narcotics and the movement of Illegal Drugs and theres a section about tens of thousands of illegal pharmacies that are online at this point shooting narcotics. Between 18 and 20 go online a day still. You help me understand what the fbi is doing to interdict and engage, how many are american and international and what we can do to stop the movement of narcotics through the mail system . A great question and one we spend a great deal of time on. As you know, the traffic of illegal narcotics is something that we and our partners at the dea and other partners have focused on for many years. We have had Great Success but the threat continues to change and develop and confront us in new ways. Illegal,sion of the Online Pharmacies is one of those ways and quite frankly, it is something we are learning about spending more time on every day. Is no longer a drug dealer on the corner, they just deliver it to your house and theres a whole different set of issues we aggressively need to address. We have talked often about a cyber doctrine and is one of the issues that keeps being raised, that other nations and nationstates and actors need to understand what our boundaries are. This seems to be talked to death and everyone i have talked with thinks it needs to occur. Who has the ball making sure a year from now, i guess specifically, when we do this hearing next year, who should we hold accountable if we dont have a cyber doctrine . Thats a very good question and i think all of us would agree we need a cyber doctrine because its the top, if not the number one threat today that we are dealing with. President tafte and effort under the direction of former mayor giuliani with this. That has not led to a conclusion at this particular point in time. I dont have the details, but i would agree that this is a need tour policymakers address and i hope when we are will have aar, we solid response to your question, but at this particular point in time, given the proliferation of issues we are trying to deal with,time, given how do we find out who has the ball and is this something we need to be able to work through . Your report was excellent, by the way. Report,ction of the every part of it that there is a threat. You wrote that iran continues to be before most state sponsor of terrorism, whether it is cyber, whether it is active terrorism, it always seems to always circle back to it ran. Areas wene of those have to be able to figure out what to do with it. Question, anyone could answer this my concern is when we are dealing with syria, the focus seems to be on russia and syria and we are of what isk happening in yemen and other places. What is your perception of it rans goal . Is it hired going into syria and iraq to be at to occupy and stay . Yout the perception that ran wants to remain in syria and be the dominant force there . , a ran viewsearly themselves as the dominant regional power. They will continue to use militia forces and asymmetric aims ofo achieve the controlling large parts of the region. Themey cannot control physically, they tend to influence them politically. Syria becomes a key Strategic Point for them and allows them to leverage syrian forces, Lebanese Hezbollah and capability forces across the region. They will be in competition at some point with russia. Russia views itself as a regional power. And iranse russia influence will remain aligned in the longterm. In the near term, they are very close. Mr. Mccabe, you seem to be of great interest in being here. We look for to hearing from you all in a closed hearing, which i think we will be able to go into more detail. I have a question about the morale of the fbi agency starting back from july fifth, july 7, october 28, and election day did you all think you would be embroiled in an election process such as this and what did it do to the morale . I dont know that anyone envisioned exactly the way these things would develop. Are aaid earlier, we Large Organization. We have a lot of diversity of opinions and viewpoints on things. We are also a fiercely independent group. Before july 5, before the first testimony that director comey got involved in, prior to that, did you see a change in morale . More anxious or more concerned . Morale has always been good, but there are folks within the agency who were frustrated with the outcome of the Hillary Clinton case and some of those folks were very vocal about those concerns. Im sure we will have more questions and close hearing. We talked about the lab has level with ther people being concerned about the security about the country, having a russian facility does it come with your i. T. People or have you gone to them making sure you have no interaction with any of the contractors you do business with down the line . Ofwe count on the expertise admiral rodgers and the fbi to protect our systems. Do youhave i. T. People, talk to the i. T. People and is a concern it might be a problem . Lab am aware of the challenge. It is more than a challenge and i would hope all of you, we are very much concerned about security of our country. We share that. Next week are tracking can spur ski and their software. As well as i know, and i check this recently, no software on our networks. Might beacted piece harder to define, but at this point, we see no connection to can spur ski. I am aware of the issue, yes, sir. It wasnt that long ago i was sitting up there raising issues about diversity and the position here. Continues in this new job. It has risen to the director of the cia as well. We are focused on it closely. You have swept all of your contractors to make sure the certainty that you have any concerns you have about this and making sure they can verify they are not involved with any of customers these hardware. Can spur skis hardware. Dont talk about them much and when you talk about ms 13, the crips, hells angels, a goes on and on. There are quite a few. Level, theto your gangsn we have with these within every part of our country . Anybody on the gangland . We spend a lot of time about that at the fbi. Its one of our highest priorities. One last question. Imare earth elements, understanding ever since the closure of the Mountain Pass mine, the last mind that we had the rare earth elements we need, we dont do any of it in this country anymore and most of it comes from china. Do any of you have a concern about that . Yes we are concerned. We do a lot of work to figure out and help the policy community about how we should treat this issue, but it is a very real concern. We use them for important technologies to keep them all safe. Told to me that the Department Needs rare elements i want you to know that West Virginia has the opportunity to provide this country with the rare out rare earth elements that we have. We are happy to come to your service. Before i turn to senator cotton, can i say the vice chair and i have to step out for a meeting that we cannot push off. Senator harris, senator cotton to complete their first round of questions. Any member that seeks additional questions will be recognized by the chair. I would ask you to limit those questions, if you can, but the chair will say we are not going over five minutes for the second round of questions. It is my hope we will give sufficient time to these general and to have some nutrition before we reconvene at 1 30. It is my understanding there will be a vote circa 2 00 and we will decide how we handle that hearings, wed would like to make sure nobody misses anything so we might slightly adjust what we are doing. I appreciate your thoughtfulness. Your departure as we work through it, it it is acceptable as we get another fiveminute round. Cotton inmates running the asylum. [laughter] i think everyone here in this room and most americans have come to appreciate the aggressiveness with which russia uses active measures, propaganda, call it whatever you they as you are agency ss did in 2016 and hacking into those emails and releasing them as news reports suggest they did and the French Election. Sought to reason i revive the russian active measures working group in the authorization act. Activities that go far beyond elections, our former director of the cia bob eights in his memoir details soviet covert influence campaigns designed to slow or thwart the u. S. Development of Delivery Systems and the claimant of intermediate range Nuclear Force systems to europe. Specifically, on page 260, he writes during that time, the soviets mounted a massive action, sporting employment by nato. We at cia devoted tremendous resources to an effort to uncover the soviet covert campaign. Director casey summarized his extraordinary effort on january 18, 1983 and we later published it and circulated widely within the government and finally provided an unclassified version for the public view. I would like to thank the cia for digging up this unclassified version of the document and providing it to the committee the soviet strategy to derail imf to claimant, undermining natos solidarity. I ask unanimous consent that it be included as part of the hearing transcript and since the inmates are running the asylum, we will included. Pompeo, it was they were using efforts to in keeping with these past practice is, to the best of your ability, would you that would you agree russias likely using such active measures . Yes. Ccabe the fy 17 authorization act included to unclassified provisions, one would be restarting the old active measures working group. The second would require traveling more than the distance , whether as their consulate around the united dates. Bill was016, when the on the verge of passing, i received calls from highranking officials asking me to withdraw them from the bill. I declined. The bill did not pass but did as part of the fy 17 spending bill. Not receive any objection from Trump Administration officials to include from our Intelligence Community. Are you aware of any objections . No. Director pompeo . No. Do you know why the Obama Administration objected to those . That would be pure speculation. I cannot read the president mind. You mentioned section 702. Director rogers, its my understanding that your agency is undertaking an effort to release an estimate of the number of incidental persons who might have been collected using 702 techniques. Would that require you going in and conducting searches of incidental collection that had previously been unexamined . Thats part of the challenge. You are trying to produce an estimate designed to protect privacy rights and in order to do that you are going to have to violate privacy rights . That is part of the challenge. That is why we are having a dialogue. Is it going to be possible to produce that estimate without some degree of inaccuracy or infringing on privacy rights of americans . Probably not. If anyone in your agency believes there is misconduct or privacy rights not being protected, they could, i believe, under current law, come to your Inspector General or your general counsel. I assume you have opendoor policies. Whistleblower protection. Yes. And i have at least four different avenues if they believe there are abuses in the section 702 process. And anyone in their chain of command. I would ask we proceed with caution before producing a report that might infringe on americans privacy rights needlessly and might make it that much harder to reauthorize critical programs that your predecessor described as musthave not nice to have. Acting director mccabe, welcome. I know you have been in this position for about 48 hours and i appreciate your candor. Until this point, what was your role in to the investigation of the russian hacking of the 2016 election . I have had an oversight role of all fbi activity, including that investigation. Ms. Harris and now that you are acting director, what will your role be . Mr. Mccabe to understand what our folks are doing and make sure they have the resources they need and that they are getting the direction and guidance they need to go forward. Senator harris do you support the idea of a special prosecutor taking over the investigation in addition to your role . Mr. Mccabe that is a question for the department of justice and it would not be proper for me to comment on that. Senator harris from your understanding, who at the department of justice is in charge of the investigation . Mr. Mccabe the Deputy Attorney general. Senator harris and have you had conversations with him about the investigation since you have been in this role . Mr. Mccabe i have. Senator harris when director comey was fired, he was in california, so who was in charge of securing his files . Mr. Mccabe that is our responsibility. Senator harris and are you confident his files have been secured so that you can maintain the investigation . Mr. Mccabe i am. Senator harris it has been widely reported that director comey asked rosenstein for Additional Resources. I understand you are saying you do not need Additional Resources. Mr. Mccabe for the russia investigation, i believe we are adequately resourced. Senator harris will you commit to this committee that if you need Additional Resources you will come to us . Mr. Mccabe i absolutely will. Senator harris i understand you have not talked to the white house about the investigation. Mr. Mccabe correct. Senator harris have you talked to Jeff Sessions . Mr. Mccabe no. Senator harris have you talked to Rod Rosenstein . Mr. Mccabe not recently, not since i have been in this position. Senator harris what is in place to assure members of the fbi that they will not he fired if they aggressively pursue this investigation . Mr. Mccabe we have an active line of communication with the team working on this issue. They have exemplary and incredibly effective leaders they work directly for, and i am confident they understand and are confident in their position moving forward on this investigation, as my investigators, analysts, and professional staff are in everything we do every day. Senator harris i understand there is no question about the commitment the men and women of the fbi have to pursue their mission, but will you commit to me that you will directly communicate in some way, now that director comey has been fired, that you will directly communicate to those men and women to assure them they will not be fired for aggressively pursuing this investigation . Mr. Mccabe yes, maam. Senator harris thank you. And how can we go forward with confidence in leadership now that director comey has been fired . Mr. Mccabe i dont believe there is a crisis of confidence. That is somewhat selfserving now that i am in the position i am in. [laughter] it was within the president s right to do what he did. We understand he will work to find a permanent replacement. We look forward to supporting whoever that person is, whether they begin as an interim director or permanently selected director. This organization and its entirety will be completely committed to helping that person get off to a great start and do what they need to do. Senator harris do you believe there will be any pause during this investigation while we find a person in acting authority . Mr. Mccabe no, it is my job to make sure the people at the fbi continue to protect america and uphold the constitution and i will ensure that happens. Senator harris thank you. I want to go back to a question i asked director pompeo. I want to review a response you gave. I am concerned about the sally yates warning to the white house that Michael Flynn could be blackmailed by the russians. You said you did not have any firsthand indication of that. Did you have any secondhand indication or any sense at all that the National Security adviser might be vulnerable to blackmail by the russians . Its a yes or no question. Mr. Mccabe it is actually not. I cannot answer yes or no and i regret that i am not able to do so. This is a counterintelligence investigation mostly done by the fbi, not the cia. Im not attempting to be clever. I had no secondhand or third knowledge. Mr. Wyden with respect to the cia, were there any discussions with general flynn at all . He was for a time the National Security adviser. Mr. Wyden topics that could have put it risked the security and wellbeing of the American People . I am finding it very hard to swallow that you had no discussions with the National Security adviser. I spoke with the National Security adviser. He was the National Security adviser. He was present for the daily briefings and all topics we spoke to the president about. Mr. Wyden but nothing relating to matters that could have compromised the security of the United States . I cannot recall conversations i had with general flynn during that time. Mr. Wyden admiral rodgers, let me ask you a technical question i think is particularly troubling, and that is the technology threat. There is a lengthy study on the impact of mobile phone security flaws on the u. S. Government. The report confirmed what i have been warning about for quite some time, which is the significance of Cyber Security vulnerabilities associated with signaling system seven. The report says that the department believes that all u. S. Carriers are vulnerable to these exploits resulting in risks to National Security, autonomy, and the federal governments ability to provide National Security functions. These vulnerabilities can be exploited by criminals, terrorists, and enemy states. Are you concerned about these vulnerabilities, and what should be done right now to get the government and private sector to be working together more clearly and in a coherent plan to deal with these monumental risks . These are risks we are going to face with terrorist, hackers, threats, and i think the federal Communications Commission has been treading water on this, and i would like to see what you would like to do to take charge of this and deal with what is an enormous vulnerability to the security of this country. Admiral rogers i share the concern. The department of Homeland Security in their role is the lead federal Agency Associated with cyber and support for the private sector is part of the overall responsibility. We are trying to help generate insights about the nature of the vulnerability, the nature of the problem, partnering with dhs, partnering with the private sector. There are a couple of things we are looking at. I am not smart, i apologize, about all of the specifics of the dhs effort. I can take that for the record if youd like. Mr. Wyden i just want to say before we break, i am glad to see my tax reform partner back in this role. You know, mr. Director, that i think it is critical that the American People know how many innocent, lawabiding programs are being swept up in this program. The argument that it is a violation of privacy is a farfetched argument. I among others who believe we can have security and liberty. They are not mutually exclusive. This argument that you are going to be invading peoples privacy does not add up. We have to have the number. Are we going to get it in time to have a debate that shows that those of us who understand there are threats coming from overseas support the effort to deal with those threats as part of 702, that we are not going to have americans privacy rights indiscriminately swept up. We need that number. When will we get it . Admiral rogers if you recall, during my confirmation hearing, we had this discussion. I promise to you that if i was confirmed, and i was, i would meet with admiral rogers and try to better understand why it was so difficult to come to a specific number. I did go to nsa. We spent significant time talking about that, and i learned about the complexity of reaching that number. A statement had been made by senator cotton, very relevant statements as to that. Clearly, what i had learned is that a breach of privacy it may have to be made in order to determine whether or not they breached privacy. There are issues of duplication. I know we are under way in terms of setting up a time with this committee. I believe as early as june. To address or get into that issue, to address that an talk through the complexity of why it is so difficult to say. This is specifically when we can get you the number and what the number is. We are committed to the meeting with the committee to go through this particular issue, but i cannot give you a date and a number because i understand the complexity of it now and why it is so difficult for admiral rogers to say this specific number. Mr. Wyden i am well over my time. The point is privacy advocates in Technology Say its possible to get the number. They say it and the government says it. Something is out of sync. We want to find a way to work with you and we have to know that liberty and security are not mutually exclusive. We have to have that number. If this hearing had been held two weeks ago, we would have spent the two hours talking about north korea. Could you give us an update on the north korea situation, the nature of the threat, and whether some of the pressure we were feeling 2, 3, four weeks ago has relieved or if there is anything going on that should make us feel better about that situation . Director pompeo there is nothing that should make us feel any better about this threat. We have a threat that could spark a conventional war. This is a well armed adversary. We work hard to make sure we mitigate those risks. The leader continues to develop weapons. They have many launches that have failed, but they learn from each one. Their software improves day by day. This threat is very real. We should not focus simply on icbms. American interests are at risk today by shorter range missiles in the american theater. We have a norm is american interests in and around the region in seoul, south korea. So, despite the fact that it has fallen out of the headlines for the moment, i would not say there is a decreased risk. Mr. King there was a discussion two weeks ago about entering discussions with the north koreans. Can you report anything on that front . None i am aware of related to trying to talk in general and away from his Nuclear Missile program. We have taken action to set up a north Korean Center and i am sure we will have others join in from across the Intelligence Agency to focus this effort so that we can get back on our front foot. Mr. King on the latter point, would you agree the path to influence is through china . I think it is among our most productive paths and one the president is committed to, as his secretary tillerson. I was enclosed session with you a few weeks ago and given great detail about the threat you just highlighted. This threat has not only been sustained, it has continued to grow. Because it has fallen out of the headlines that is correct. It is our highest priority. It is the highest priority of the Intelligence Community at this time. A great deal of effort is being spent relative to how we can even better assess the situation and provide all the relevant intelligence to our policy makers. We had a very informative hearing this morning in Armed Services on cyber. The upshot of that hearing was we still dont have a doctrine. We still dont have a policy. We still dont fully understand. You would concur, i assume, that cyber is one of the most serious threats we face. Yes, sir. Mr. King do we need something further than what we have now which is kind of an ad hoc response. Yes, it tends to be on a casebycase basis. Mr. King what is the impediment . Why cant we get there . Is it the government . What is it going to take to get us to the point of having a doctrine that will get us to this incredibly important area . I dont have the answer for you. Mr. King i hope from your position, you would do everything you can think of. I do not want to go home to maine and say we talked about this but we didnt do everything, and when the electric system went down, we mightve been able to prevent it. Final question. Do you think russian activity in the 20 16th election was a oneoff . No, sir. This is a continuing threat, is it not . Yes, sir. And things they learned in this election, they will apply in 2018 and beyond . Yes, and more effectively. If i could just add to that, i think we should make this as transparent as possible not only to our own public but to the democratic nations facing this threat. The more we inform our people of what the russians are trying to do and how they are trying to impact our thinking and our decisions relative to how we want to preserve, the better. We absolutely have to do something about it. We have to do something to put deterrent efforts in place as well. Mr. King you and i were in ukraine and poland about a year ago, and what they told us was that the best defense they cant shut down the tv. They cant turn off the internet. The best defense is if the public knows what is happening and can say its just the russians again. I agree and hope as much of our work as possible can be done in open hearing. Thank you so much. Thank you all for your service. Thank you to all the men and women of all 17 agencies for the Incredible Service they provide to the people of the United States, keeping them safe, doing things most people in america will never know or be able to fully appreciate. Mr. Mccabe, thank you for stepping up to the battlefield of promotion and conducting yourself well here. This meeting will be adjourned and we will meet in the other room in about an hour and 16 minutes. Thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] the chair and Ranking Member stepped out to attend as the Washington Post reports a meeting with the Deputy Attorney general who played a central role in the firing of fbi director james comey. Rosenei writing mr
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