okay, so that's less money for a government already deep in the red, one would assume it makes the deficit worse, right? wrong. romney says he'll pay for that tax cut in two ways, one, he'll limit the tax breaks. he'll spur economic growth because people can use that money that they'll save this taxes. it's not entirely clear how much economic growth that will produce. what is clear is that the measly 1.3% of economic growth that they achieved in the second quarter this year isn't enough to make up for the romney shortfall, and with the u.s. economy forecasted to grow by about 3% in 2013 and 2014, romney's plan, as attractive as it sounds, is in doubt. kevin hasseth is an economic adviser. kevin, romney's plan seems to assume that the simple act of lowering taxes will generate enough growth to raise the revenue to pay for the steep cost of those cuts. a lot of economists disagree with that notion, the classic chicken and egg scenario. i spoke with secretary larry m sumners a few weeks ago and he can't get it to work, either. >> the reality is that every expert that's looked at it has found that cutting taxes by 20% costs $5 trillion. >> let's just get down to this. we understand this there will be certain revenues that will come in, there will be certain revenues lost and there is a certain amount of growth that will come from the fact that you let people keep more of their money. the issue is how much more growth you get from that. am i right? the issue is how much better is the economy because you have given everybody a discount on the taxes that they pay. that's what we're trying to get to. we would be able to do the math better if we knew exactly what that benefit was going to be. >> look, ali, this is something that economists have been studying for a long time. alan krueger, who is the current chairman of the council for economic advisers for president obama, he surveyed economists and they said something like the romney plan -- they were actually talking about the '86 tax act after which the romney plan is modelled -- ought to deliver a higher tax in the median term. there was also a tax organization that gave a score of about a percent a year growth as well. so if you could actually move there, i don't think there is a lot of dispute that we would get higher growth. >> you're assuming -- >> but will they really make the tough choices. >> you're saying getting us to about 4%, which could now start to lend itself to making sense. >> yeah. i mean, i don't know if the baseline is 3 or 2.5 right now, and certainly we would kill for 2.5% growth this year, but i think relative to baseline, we ought to be able to get a percent a year, and that's where the 12 million jobs come from. it's simple math. >> christine roman is studying the bottom line. you study this as much as you can study it and that's the bottom line. there are some that are missing. >> and we're studying the study, and what we know here, we know there is a framework here. we know that mitt romney is saying and his team is saying, look, i want to lower your taxes, i want to lower everyone's taxes, i do not want to raise taxes on the middle class. when you look at the tax policy center in particular and how they look at these buckets of deductions mitt romney talks about, so kevin, if you repealed all itemized deductions, you look at the buckets romney is imposing, he would have a cap of 17,000 at 1.7 trillion, 25,000, 1.3 trillion, 50,000, $763 billion. does economic growth make up the rest of it? >> no, you don't need economic growth. they took a whole bunch of other stuff off the table. there are about 2 trillion tax expenditures a year that you could potentially draw from. governor romney doesn't want to lift taxes on capital gains and dividends, that's a little chunk of it, but there's a lot left over. our colleague have all done some analyses that show even before you get to growth, you can get darn close. >> what are those things you're talking about? again, give us an example. >> excuse me? >> give us a couple examples. where can you make it up? >> so, for example, you could just put a cap on all deductions other than the things that affect capital income, as governor romney is saying, of maybe $17,000, and then all of the things that narrow the base would then be limited, depending on what you were doing elsewhere. so if you took the mortgage interest deduction and it filled up your bucket with 17,000 worth of deductions, then pretty much everything else in the tax code would be limited. >> kevin, i appreciate that you continue to come on the show and have the same discussion with me, because i want to bring up the 12 million jobs promise. romney and you say that his policies, including his tax plan, will help create 250,000 jobs a month for four straight years. that's a grand total of 12 million jobs, and i agree with you, larry summers is a democrat, but he was the treasury secretary, he was president obama's economic sad v -- altd vdviser. here's what he had to say about it. >> there is a strong line of arithmetic by challengers that confuses a goal with a forecast. it's a worthy goal, it's a good thing to strive for. president obama would rather create 4 million jobs, he'd rather create 5 million jobs, he'd rather create 6 million jobs, but there is a difference between a goal and an aspiration and the reasonable forecast. >> so kevin, is 12 million jobs a goal and an as pir ratipirati reasonable forecast? >> i think it's something that would happen if governor romney were elected. i truly believe that. if you look at private sector forecasters, as you know, like moody's and economic advisers and others are already looking forward to higher growth over the next four years because they think the recession is finally getting behind us. and if you look at the jobs numbers implicit in the private sector forecast, they're finding jobs like 12 million over the four-year period. the question is why would we switch from where we are to the state where we could have an economy that once again would deliver 12 million jobs? the reason private forecasters find that is because they think we'll return to normal. i would argue that if president obama is reelected, we won't. we won't fix our big problems, we won't get back to the economy. under governor romney's plan, there must be a strong story that we could go back to that 12 million jobs goal. >> we apparently can find them to support any recession. >> and studies of studies. >> that's not true, ali. you will not find any study that says president obama is going to create jobs by hiking marginal tax rates. there is no study that says that. we're talking about romney's plan, obama doesn't even have a plan. there is nothing out there that one could argue 12 million jobs. >> romney says in spite of the 12 million jobs, an author of you one of those studies has come out and said that's a misinterpretation of my words. i think if we created 12 million jobs, that would be a really, really good thing for america. i like big goals. i'm just trying to figure out whether you should get people's votes on the basis of two things, the tax cut proposal you've got and the jobs creation proposal that you have that does depend on greater economic growth, and it's a slightly hard line to completely connect. that's the issue. >> well, if we take your perspective on it, though, you would have to concede that you've got a choice between a candidate romney that has a proposal that arguably could create 12 million jobs. maybe you doubt it, but it's not going to, you know, cut the number of jobs created over the next four years, and then a candidate who has basically photocopied his budgets and said, that's his plan, and then the only sub dsidy is a big hik on both the individuals. the president's jobs plan from last fall, you know, it's just something that, again, has not garnered a lot of support even in the democratic senate because it's the same old stimulus stuff that he gave us right at beginning. >> but there is a part in there that could be very strong. do you like that part? >> known if his characterization of an infrastructure bank is one i would support. i'm not speaking for governor romney here, but i know moving towards partisanship like they do in canada, they've done a great job of building an infrastructure bank that gets a lot of infrastructure built without increasing taxes. >> christine, i just like to keep talking to kevin until he says something nice about canada. >> thank you both for being here. both president obama and mitt romney want to expand domestic oil production. >> we're going to get north america oil and energy independent so we don't have to buy any oil from the middle east or venezuela. >> in 2010, it was under 15% for the first time in 13 years. >> coming up next, cnn's fareed with his own energy independent opinion. ♪ [ male announcer ] its lightweight construction makes it nimble... ♪ its road gripping performance makes it a cadillac. introducing the all-new cadillac xts. available with advanced all-wheel drive. [ engine revving ] it's bringing the future forward. ♪... ♪... ♪... choose the perfect hotel without bidding. ♪ (train horn) vo: wherever our trains go, the economy comes to life. norfolk southern. one line, infinite possibilities. bp has paid overthe people of bp twenty-threeitment to the gulf. billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. our commitment has never been stronger. both president obama and mitt romney want america to become energy independent. the battle that set it on domestic oil drilling during this week's presidential debate. >> the president cut in half the number of licenses and permits for drilling on federal lands and in federal waters. >> we've opened up public lands. we're actually drilling more on public lands than in the previous administration. >> well, the north american continent is already moving toward a more energy-independent future thanks to natural gas in america and synthetic crude oil from canada. that trend will continue no matter who sits in the white house next year. let's take a look at oil, for instance. america is about 5% of the world's population but it consumes about one-fifth of the world's daily oil production. 35% of the oil america consumes is kborimported. that's way down from the peak of 60% in 2005. in fact, america is now the third largest producer of oil in the world today. world oil production is jumped 13% in the last year alone. deep well drilling in new mexico is bringing even more to america. obama wants to invest in alternative forms of energy that will eventually replace oil. fareed za ckariazakaria, host o zakaria." fareed, welcome. this may be the one thing that partisan scorched earth politics isn't hurting. in fact, both of these candidates are arguing similar things. they're both moving toward energy independence for north america. >> exactly. and the revolution is quite extraordinary. we were all expecting a technological revolution in the industry but what we meant was wind and solar, and instead we got extraction of oil and gas. the result is that chart you showed, by the end of this decade, the united states will be the world's top exporter of oil and liquefied natural gas. >> you can use that to produce electricity which will make the cost of electricity more stable and cheaper in the united states, which could lead to a resurgence of certain industries. >> the natural gas right is very important because it lowers the cost of manufacturing. when you're thinking about manufacturing, when you're thinking about putting up a plant and employing a lot of workers in america, people think the big problem is the wages of the workers. no, the big problem is the cost of energy, and if energy costs dramatically dropped, we would be producing gas for about $2 per thousand cubic yard. in russia, they sell it for $19. we're much cheaper. as a result, dow chemical and places like that are beginning real manufacturing operations in the united states. there is also an environmental benefit. natural gas emits half the co2 emissions of coal. almost everywhere, natural gas is replacing coal. >> a fossil fuel like coal, like oil, president barack obama wants to focus more on non-fossil fuels, wind, solar, hydroelectricity, and that's an area you look into in your special. >> yes. there is no question that the ultimate future for energy should be that we take advantage of the things we have. some amazing statistic like in 14 seconds, the sun emits enough energy that it hits the earth to power the entire world. if we could find a way to capture that. the wind blows, it's usable, and if we could get it cheap and on scale, this would be the ultimate solution. that would be the true energy solution. what obama wants to do, which i think is a smart idea, is invest while we continue to extract oil and natural gas, use it as sort of a bridge technology for the next several decades, but eventually figure out a way to get those costs down for wind and solar. you have to design those programs intelligently. the defense department and nasa in the computer industry, half of all computer chips produced in the world were bought by the u.s. power department. >> this is going to be a great special. i'm looking forward to it, fare fareed. >> and "powering in america" airs sunday on cnn. pick ins opened up with his solution on independence of oil before the election. take a look at this. this thing can create eight times as much power as the hoover dam. what is it? i'll explain after the break. ♪ [ male announcer ] jill and her mouth have lived a great life. but she has some dental issues she's not happy about. so i introduced jill to crest pro-health for life. selected for people over 50. pro-health for life is a toothpaste that defends against tender, inflamed gums, sensitivity and weak enamel. conditions people over 50 experience. crest pro-health for life. so jill can keep living the good life. crest. life opens up when you do. so jill can keep living the good life. sleep train's best don't miss your chanceoon. to get sleep train's very best mattresses at the guaranteed lowest price. plus, pay no interest for 3 years on beautyrest black, stearns & foster, serta icomfort, even tempur-pedic. and rest even better with sleep train's risk-free 100-day money back guarantee. but the best rest event ends soon at sleep train. superior service best selection, lowest price, guaranteed. ♪ sleep train ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ at meineke i have options... like oil changes starting at $19.95. my money. my choice. my meineke. 2,203 trillion cubic feet. that's how much natural gas the u.s. government says we are sitting on in this country. that would be enough to last about 92 years at current consumption rates. production of natural gas is climbing. up 14% between 2008 and 2011. azts technology allows us to extract more and more deeper into the ground. and as the abundant supply increases, it's made cheaper gasoline. t. boone pickens says it's the key, at least in the short term, to getting the u.s. off imported oil. you'll remember back in 2003, pickens released a blueprint plan and it had four key pillars. number one, use america's abundant natural gas to replace imported oil as a transportation fuel. number two, build a 21st century electric transmission grid. number three, build up sources such as wind and solar, and number four, upgrade insulation and efficiency. boone says using natural gas to fuel vehicles is the puzzle piece right now. getting there won't be easy because most of the natural gas in this country is used to create electricity and just 1% of it, that little pink slice over there, is used for transportation. joining me now is my friend t. boone pickens. he's the architecture of the pickens plan and the founder of boone capital. boone, today natural gas in the united states accounts for 112,000 vehicles. it powers about 112,000 vehicles, mostly commercial vehicles. we need filling stations all across the country. how do we get there, and how much progress, if any, are we making? >> just leave it up to private capital. you don't need the government to do one thing for you. please, please, i've heard it so many times. let the government do the infrastructure. let me tell you, if we do that, i'll be dead and gone by the time the infrastructure is complete. just let private industry handle it. we have plenty of natural gas, like you said. 92 years, i accept that number. 112,000 vehicles. you know how many vehicles there are in the world that are on natural gas? 13 million. gas problems, a russian company announced that they are going to use natural gas for transportation fuel. it will happen, it has to happen, it's $2 a gallon cheaper than it is for diesel. natural gas is cheaper. we got a heated discussion going on energy in the second debate. they didn't come up to any conclusions. now we're going to switch over this the third debate to foreign relations. foreign relations mideast is built right on top of energy. that's cannotly w-- exactly why we're there. >> let's talk about that because you're talking about that second debate. you're happy they discussed energy. president obama understands that natural gas needs to be in the mix. listen to what he had to say. >> we continue to make it a priority for us to go after natural gas, we've got potentially 600,000 jobs and 110 years of energy right beneath our feet in natural gas. >> you said governor romney understood a deeper understanding of energy. tell us why. >> he has a plan. you heard what obama said there. he talks about natural gas. sure, does he have a plan? never seen a check. he never has a plan, it's always just a speech is what he has. but romney, he's got a 21-page plan. is it perfect? no, but it's a pretty darn good plan. but here what you're going to have on the third debate, you need to get into, we're in the mideast. what are we in the mideast for? there are 17 billion barrels of oil moving out every day. we get 13.2% of that. 3 million barrels come to the united states. we have our people, we have our navy over there, we have people on the ground. listen, if you rolled up what the cost of that 2 million barrels a day of what we get, it would be 300 to $500 a barrel. these two guys running for president need to come up with a plan as to we can get off 2 million barrels a day, we can get off of that very easy with our own resources in this country. we have more oil, we have the natural gas that can go to heavy duty. what you need out of this third debate is a plan. >> t. boone pickens, always a pleasure to talk to you. thank you for joining us. if there's one country doing things the right way, it's china. that's one of the reasons people are talking about it. >> changes that were taking place in china. >> china needs the united states. >> for some emerging markets like china. >> the governor for energy and infrastructure has made china a world power. how is china's rise changing the world future and how can you capitalize on it right now? 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[ male announcer ] it's time for medicare open enrollment. are you ready? time to compare plans and see what's new. you don't have to make changes, but it's good to look. maybe you can find better coverage, save money, or both. and check out the preventive benefits you get after the health care law. ♪ medicare open enrollment. now's the time. visit medicare.gov or call 1-800-medicare. ♪ and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love, and save your money. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. take a walk in shanghai today and you'll feel like you stepped into a time machine and traveled into the future. i had a chance to visit china again in august. while there i canceled my flight from beijing to shanghai to try out the high speed rail. high speed rail is exactly the kind of smart, long-term infrastructure investment that the u.s. economy desperately needs. in just two decades, china has seen 250 million people, more than the entire population of the united states, move from the countryside into the cities. and those massive skyscrapers and super efficient subways are paying off. it's true that china's growth is slowing -- look at that -- and it currently can't sustain its growth. they are sustaining their peak because of concerns about the pace of political and economic reform, bribery, theft and intellectual property and threats of how china will deal with the manipulation of its currency. >> china has been a currency manipulator for years and years and years and the president has a regular opportunity to label them as a currency manipulator but refuses to do so. >> as far as currency manipulation, the currency has actually gone up 11% since i've been president because we have pushed them hard. >> well, the currency of the u.n. has appreciated but not as much as president obama says it has. regardless, by keeping the currency low, china can sell the products it manufacturers for less than they're worth, and that makes it hard for american companies to sell goods at a price high enough to pay wages to their workers. it's a problem, but somewhere in there there is an opportunity. steve lieb is the president of l lieb financing. that's the threat, right, the threat is there are a bunch of things china is doing that make it hard to compete with them? >> that's right, ali, and all this infrastructure spending you referred to is using up tremendous amounts of resources. and you referred to 250 million. there is another 300 million people they want to push into urban areas, and there is over a trillion dollars they want to spend on a smart grid, another major infrastructure project. probably $1 trillion on water when all is told over the next several years, china may spend 3 or 400 million dollars on new infrastructu infrastructure. that's a war-like spending effort just to get the economy into a modern way and just to lay the groundwork for the 21st century. >> we talk about here what they're doing in very big numbers. what does this mean as an opportunity? how does my viewer take advantage of all this growth in china? when you listen to the presidential debates, all you hear about china is it's bad and it's a threat. there's got to be a way to make money off this. >> there's always opportunity. i think longer term commodities are definitely going to benefit in growth. >> because all of the chinese are going to prosper and they eat more and they need to build more. >> exactly. exactly. building a smart grid is going to take massive amounts of copper and other materials. getting all these people into the cities is going to take massive amounts of steel and iron ore. >> they're eating more food, becoming more prosperous, eating more calories. >> the most recent gdp report was in line with target, 7.4%, i believe, but you saw a boost in consumption. the chinese are really managing their economy very well. >> 7.4% compared to 1.3 in the united states, just to give you a perspective. the china market is not doing we vl at all. you think to think about investing money in china in stocks. >> in our country the stock market is a barometer more or less for the economy. in china, not really at all. i mean, the solar industry, for example, they'll support their solar companies even though they may be bankrupt. they don't care that they're bankrupt as long as they learn how to manufacture as cheap as possible. if you're investing in china, buy commodities. buy the etfs that are underlined by particular commodities like jvc for copper, gld for gold, et cetera. i think that's the best way to go. >> steven, good to see you. steven lieb joining us. she was the woman responsible for protecting your money during a financial crisis. >> we participated in the bailout and they did have a short-term impact in stabilizing the market, but that's not something i'm proud of. i'm ashamed about it. we had to do it, but it's not something i'm bragging about. >> four years later she's pointing fingers and naming names. who had your back and who didn't? 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[ male announcer ] one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. america heads to the polls in a little over two weeks. one question you've probably asked yourself during the campaign, are you better off now than you were four years ago? when it comes to the overall u.s. economy, the answer is absolutely yes. four years ago, america and the world marched to the edge of the economic abyss. >> major sectors of america's financial system are at risk of shutting down. >> the financial crisis actually kicked up two weeks earlier with the collapse of lehman brothers. >> we got a big problem. >> but by four years ago this week, it had morphed into a global greed of credit which threatened the world with economic depression. >> this is credit of the highest level between institutions. >> congress was presented with one choice and one choice only. >> it's important to get credit flowing again. >> bail out the banks, the banks that got us into this mess in the first place. >> should there even be a bailout? >> no bush bailout! >> americans protested and lawmakers balked. >> americans are angry and so are my colleagues. >> on september 29, the bill to save the economy went down to e defeat in the house of representatives. >> the legislation has failed. >> i'm very disappointed in today today's vote. >> i say to the democrats and republicans who opposed this vote yesterday, i say step up to the plate. >> the dow went down 777 points, the biggest loss to date. >> all because they went and got a house they couldn't afford? >> i don't know whose fault it was. $1.2 million market value wiped out in one day. congress quickly reconvened, and four days later, on october 3rd, it passed the $700 billion troubled asset relief program. >> congress has agreed to a broad deal that authorizes the treasury secretary to start releasing money to free up the credit system. that may have been the last time americans witnessed bipartisan compromise on something that really mattered in washington. four years later, and on the eve of another election, voters are being asked, are you better off than you were then? the answer is yes. because it was that bad. but how much better could it have been if washington had n t, in the last four years, put intense part shisanpartisanship the better of the people. >> she had your back. her job was to deal with the failed banks. she was a chairman of the federal deposit insurance corporation. she's got a new book. it's a tell-all about her experiences during the financial crisis. she holds no punches. it's called "bull by the horns, fighting to save wall strefreet from main street and wall street in itself." in it you criticize the treasury secretary, timothy geithner, largely for just being too good to the banks, for being too close to the banks. tell me a bit more about that. >> we did have a fundamental, philosophical clash of views, and i think tim was operating with the best of intentions, but i think he viewed the world as stabilizing the big financial institutions, making them profitable again, and that was going to help the rest of the economy. it just didn't work out that way because their interests and our interests are very different. >> what should have happened ? >> in 2008, we were spinning out of control. we needed to do something and we did something very dramatic, and i think those in retrospect were very general. but we had a stable financial system by 2009. that's when we should have started imposing some accountability. i think we should have broken up citigroup, at least forced them to sell their assets, replace management. we didn't do that. then the other banks were forced to sell off their bad assets to clean up their balance sheet. we didn't do any federal structuring in 2009, we just propped up everybody, and as a result, i think this continues to be a drag on economic growth. we have a bloated financial sector. >> a drag on economic growth. does that mean it's as bad as it was? can the same things happen again? >> it can, yes. i think we've got more capital into the banks. that's one of the positives i point out in the book. but there are a lot of pretty new increased risks out there. europe continues to be a problem of uncertain resolution. intrastate risks in the long term, we don't know how long this policy is. there is still a lot of risk taking in these things, and the bad course of keeping interest rates at zero and rates on safe investments in banks, everybody else looks for more return and they go to higher risks to get that return. >> one of the things is we got everybody into houses and created this wealth effect. is it masking prosperity in this country? >> absolutely. i think our problems are structural. congress needs to deal with the state of our fiscal situation, they need to clean out our tax code. it's very inefficient. our corporate rates are far too high but nobody pays them. >> it would be better if we had lower rates but more people paying. >> it would make us more competitive internationally, too, i think. that, i think, more than anything would help our domestic economy and our exports than yet another round of quantitative easing and trying to appreciate our exports. the other countries are fighting it, we're getting into a currency war now. i respect that he's trying to solve our problems with monetary issues but he can't. congress and the president need to deal with this. >> part of the reason you wanted this book out now is because it should be part of people's decision making when they go cast their ballot. they should be able to know who is out there to protect their interests. >> that's right. >> who of the presidential candidates are out there to best protect them? >> frankly, i'm disappointed in both games. president obama has been talking a good game, but there's not been much leadership there, the rules when they do come out are highly complicated, a lot of exceptions. mitt romney on the other hand said he wants to replace the vote, and neither one of them are acknowledging -- they are trying to promise they will have an improved economy in the next four years, but they're not relating that to having a stable financial sector. they're not going to have a healthy economy without a structure, and we don't have it right now. >> that is key to our economic recovery. this is a great book. it's an important read for everybody. it's called "bull by the horns, trying to save main street from wall street and wall street from itself." up next, you need more than sheila baer watching your money. why? because they're closing the door on the middle class. she'll explain, next. americans are always ready to work hard for a better future. since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪ overmany discounts to thine customers! [old english accent] safe driver, multi-car, paid in full -- a most fulsome bounty indeed, lord jamie. thou cometh and we thy saveth! what are you doing? we doth offer so many discounts, we have some to spare. oh, you have any of those homeowners discounts? here we go. thank you. he took my shield, my lady. these are troubling times in the kingdom. more discounts than we knoweth what to do with. now that's progressive. keys, keys, keys, keys, keys. ♪ well, he's not very handsome ♪ to look at [ sighs ] ♪ oh, he's shaggy ♪ and he eats like a hog [ male announcer ] the volkswagen jetta. available with advanced keyless technology. control everything from your pocket, purse, or wherever. that's the power of german engineering. ♪ that dirty, old egg-suckin' dog ♪ that's the power of german engineering. trying to find a better job can be frustrating. so at university of phoenix we're working with a growing list of almost two thousand corporate partners - companies like microsoft, american red cross and adobe - to create options for you. not only that, we're using what we learn from these partners to shape our curriculum. so that when you find the job you want you'll be a perfect fit. let's get to work. america is segmented, broken up, divided. occupy wall street highlighted the divide between what they determined the top 1% and everybody else. then republican presidential candidate mitt romney was caught on hidden camera saying 47% of the country backs president obama because they're dependent on the government and feel like victims. since then he's reiterated he cares about 100% of the population, but this week mitt romney unveiled a new group, the 5%. >> i am not going to have people at the high end pay less than they're paying now. the top 5% of taxpayers will continue to pay 60% of the income tax the nation collects. >> the tax policy center says the top 5% make at least $181,000 a year. so do you feel confused, not sure where you belong? a new book by christopher freeland explains it doesn't actually matter what group you identify with because it's neither the 5% nor the 1% that matters, it's the 0.01%. they're the only ones winning these days and they're pushing everyone else down the economic ladder. the book is called "plutocrats," the rise and fall of everyone else. they say the super rich are isolating themselves. they have more to do with the super rich in other countries than they do with their fellow americans. and guess what? just like mitt romney's 47%, the super rich also feel likeromney, they're ostracized by society, they're disconnected from the middle class and they're not going to take it anymore. chris freeland is a guest on our show. they're always superrich, but they made their money on the backs of people who bought their products. now you're saying that the connection between these superrich and those they need to use their services is not national? >> that's exactly right. i want to stipulate, i believe in globalization, i think it's a great thing for the world overall. i think it's really great for the people in emerging markets. we do also have to be aware of what are consequences and impacts. if you think back to the henry ford era, he had to pay his workers well so that people could afford to buy his cars. but then we see the economy of people at the very top racing away from the economy offing everybody else. there was a famous investor note that was called plutonomy. the reality is, when you're at the very, very top, you don't think about your national consumers, you think about the global economy. >> what's the consequence for public policy? what's the consequence when the very rich in society are that disconnected from everybody else? >> i think the consequence is that what is good -- a couple of consequences, one is they just are leaving increasingly separate lives and what is really crucial, you said ali that the rich are different from the rest, the rich have always been with us. true, but they haven't been with us in the way they are today. and it is really important to face the fact that that gap has become a yawning chasm. in the past three decades, it has just exponentially grown. so, one, they're much more different from the rest of us as they used to be. and two, the kinds of policies that they might think are right may not be what suits the middle class today. and that is particularly important in the united states in the era of superpacs. we see a lot of people who feel, and we hear this directly from go governor romney is that their expertise qualifies them to make good decisions. we have to be really thoughtful,that and say, okay, just because you know what's really good for your business and for this slice of business whether that automatically translate into something good? >> it's called "plutocrats" the rise of the superrich and the fall of everyone else. what happens when photo journalists get on a bus and trek all across the country? we're going to hear about that next. we have cancelled your old. great. thank you. in addition to us monitoring your accounts for unusual activity, you could also set up free account alerts. okay. 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[ male announcer ] it's chevy truck month. now during chevy truck month, get 0% apr financing for 60 months or trade up to get the 2012 chevy silverado all-star edition with a total value of $8,000. hurry in before they're all gone! all right, i'm hitting the road next week, the cnn election express bus. you know that one, it's all gasseded up and a few of my friends are rolling with me from florida to ohio and we want to talk to you. we are hearing different things from people wherever we're going. >> it's a battleground bus tour, we're going to get on the ground and talk to the folks that will decide this year's presidential election, florida, ohio and virginia. >> there's this new normal that says things aren't as prosperous as it used to be. i want to see if that changes the election for people. >> with the interviews you can have with ceos and understand the structure of the company. >> when do you guys open up? >> we are going to be going through parts of country that have very specific and different kpik needs. there's a really important distinction between where people are and where they're going. being on these trips, really gives me a sense of where people are going. >> jobs or unemployment? >> as much as people would like to say i don't care about this circus, this isn't about me, they kind of have. to. >> if folks aren't clear on their responsibility, they should go read a history book, it's our rent for living in a free country. >> we're just there to talk to them, we're just there to listen. most of the time people think we talk for a listen, but we're actually going to be listening to people and there is no greater education than that. >> and cnn contribute for john avalon joins me now and he's joining me on the bus. this election is coming down to a smaller and smaller number of states and districts and counties. and we're going through, and we're not hearing the same things. >> totally different political topographies totally different economic topographies. this election does come down to swing voters in swing districts and swing states. florida still under water on their mortgages, unemployment, fast growing, in those swing counties there, the local issues, the economic issues, the fact that it's an mazing population, north carolina, obviously the textile industry decimated decades ak, the whole issue of manufacturing, research triangle, virginia, unemployment half the national averages. >> they have to take a different view of this whole government get out of my life situation? >> exactly right. the folks in loudoun county, that rhetoric doesn't work for them. they're worried about the sequestration cuts to the military. and ohio is shaping up again to be the big one. this is my mother's home state, i know it well. and this is a state that has gotten terrible economic news, but in the eastern part of the state, there's this oil and gas boom going on. it's funny ow that's changing people eat minds. >> the auto industry was-we're going to be in youngstown, we're going to be in toledo, we're going to be in canton right before the election. the battleground bus tour starts next week. i'll be tweeting, i'll be

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