competent nonchristian like mitt romney. that's why i'm enthusiastic about rick perry. >> what do you say that mormonnism shouldn't be an issue in this campaign? he's just as american as everybody else. >> i agree he's just as american as anyone else. and the article six of the constitution -- >> and mormones say they are christians christians. they believe in jesus christ. >> a lot of people say they are christians and they are not. they do not embrace historical christianity. i think we have the duty to prefer christians as our leaders. that's what john j., the first supreme court justice of the supreme court said. we have a decision between a rick perry and mitt romney, i think evangelicals have to go with rick perry. >> a spokesman for latter day saints declined to comment on the statement. he said that those who want to understand the centrality of christ to our faith can learn more about us and what we believe by going to mormon.org. joining us is robert jeffers. pastor, thanks very much for being with us. why do you believe the mormon church is a cult? >> well, again, when i talk about a cult, anderson, i'm talking about a theological cult as opposed to a sociological cult. you know, thee logically, a cult is a religion that has a human founder versus a divine founder. joseph smith is the founder of mormonnism versus jesus christ. and secondly, cults tend to look at other religious text outside the bible for their guidance. mormonism certainly accepts the bibl. it accepts the newer revelation, the book of mormon that came from a angel to joseph smith. it's a theological cult. i know that's a loaded term. and it's not -- it has never been considered, anderson, as a part of historic christiancy. >> the church of jesus christ does consider themselves christians and on the website they say they accept jesus christ as their savior, redeemer and they say each of these titles points the truth that jesus christ is the only way by which we can return to live with our heavenly father. >> and we can get into an indepth discussion and put everyone to sleep out there. >> do you consider -- >> this is not a new position. i do not consider them a cult. i consider that catholicism teaches that a person is made right with god by faith in christ and good works and a number of good works. but historic christianity has been that we're saved by faith in christ alone. i wouldn't label it a cult. i would say it's basic tenants are contrary to the teaching of the new testament. >> hindus and buddhists, islam, cult? >> yes, absolutely. and the bible teaches very clearly that only those who trust in christ as their savior will be in heaven. and jesus made that clear when he said i'm the way to the truth and the life. no man comes to the father except by me. >> why in a political leader, why -- the difference between rick perry and romney, there are political differences. but why base your decision on the closest most core held belief, religious beliefs of these two men? they both belief in jesus christ. they both are -- believe in their faith and in you yourself say are good people. >> right. anderson, again this is not the only criteria that we use to select a leader. in fact, i didn't mention the word cult or mitt romney in my introduction of governor perry today. >> you said it right after you left the stage in an interview and you said it plenty of times before, over the years, going back to 2007. >> that's right. again, i'm not labelling mitt romney as a bad person or mormones as bad people. >> but you say he's a member of a cult. >> yes. but anderson, if i were to say to you, you know, anderson, you're not a republican. i don't think you would say -- disagree with that. i would say that not because i think you're a bad person, but you don't hold the basic tenants of the republican party. >> obviously, you don't know that about me. but saying somebody is a republican is not a value judgment. saying that they're in a cult is a value judgment. i mean it's an incendiary term. >> not a theological cult. that may be a pejorative term to say cult. i'm talking in terms of a theological cult. i believe that morm onism fits that definition. there is a reason that christian evangelicals should not vote for mitt romney. i also said in interviews this afternoon if it came down to a candidacy -- or a choice between mitt romney and president obama, i would vote for mitt romney. >> do you believe that barack obama is not a christian? >> i was getting to that. i think it's better to have a nonchristian like mitt romney who embraces biblical values than to have a professing christian like barack obama who embraces unbiblical positions. i accept barack obama's claim that he's a christian. >> it doesn't sound like it. saying you accept his claim that he's a christian doesn't sound like you really believe that. >> right. >> i mean you don't say -- >> you said rick perry is -- you say you don't have any reason not to believe. you don't say that about rick perry. i accept his claim that he's a christian. but you're saying that about the president. >> i talked to rick -- that's right. i talked to rick perry. i haven't had the chance to talk to president obama. that's the difference. >> you don't base his public statements -- that's not -- you don't believe that's valid proof enough? >> i have no reason -- i have no reason not to doubt his public statements, anderson. none at all. >> okay. what are his -- why do you believe his positions are unbiblical, the president? >> right. i believe he's the most pro abortion president in the history of the united states. and i believe in the sanctity of life and that is a very important issue. when it comes to mitt romney, i think his recent so-called conversion to life is very suspect given his position as governor. romney care as you know included a $50 deductible for abortions. and so i think that his conviction about a life is very suspect. when you compress that to rick perry who signed into a law that texas sonogram bill, he defunded planned parenthood. and i think rick perry would conservatives have a proven track record. >> do you worry that you're harming your candidate rick perry? you were introducing him on stage today. you made the statement in the past. clearly rick perry is now distancing himself from what you said. he clearly knows you believe this because he said this in the past. and he's continued to choose you to introduce him. so do you worry you're damaging him a little? >> i think there are a lot of assumptions there, anderson, that he knows what my position is on mormonism. >> it what in the dallas news and widely reported. i assume he would know. >> he may not have seen. that i wouldn't assume that at all. >> i would assume that he has people around him that would know. that. >> i represent his viewpoints. >> pastor jeffers, i appreciate your time. thank you very much. >> thank you. good to be you. >> i want to bring in bruce father. it is interesting. what do you make of this? i mean it's nothing really new, i guess. >> i think the reason we're having this conversation now is because mitt romney is back at the front-runner in the campaign. it was unlikely we were going to go through the campaign without this issue coming to the surface. if you look at the polls, the four in ten americans say they believe that morm on onnism is not a true cyst antti. and a third said they would be less likely to vote for a candidate if he or she were a mormon. so this issue was always going to come back. and now this is the day that it brought it back to the conversation. >> on a theological basis, is it fair to call something a cult? >> what's interesting this definition, he was using -- he said there is a sociological cult and a theological cult. his definition af theological cult is one founded by a person as opposed to a divine figure. he included islam. islam says that it was founded by divine revelation to mohammed and the same with buddhism and the other religions. i think this is a term that people who don't believe in other people's religion have thrown around for decades. i don't find that particularly new. i think what is going on here is if you look at western religion, okay, i think basically religions have had toward prior religions a yes but attitude. we're the holiest day of the jewish year. christians say okay we believe in the hebrew bible but we continue the revelation continued with jesus and the new testament supplemented the hebrew bible. what mormones and others are saying is we believe in christianity. but in the case of morm anism, we believe there is subsequent revelation and that's the source of the difference. so mormones can say we believe in jesus. he is our savior. but they also believe that joseph smith got divine revelation himself, also that resurrected jesus came to north america and these are the kind of ideas that have sat uncomfortably traditionally with protestant christians. >> do you think -- obviously i cannot believe that rick perry doesn't know the beliefs of the people introducing him on the stage. he is a very smart guy with a good team around him. this stuff is vetted. you say it's a widely held belief and, therefore, it's not necessarily going to harm him politically among evangelical voters. >> i think a lot of ways none of this is particularly new. not a lot of he van jel gelicals feel this way about mormonism. rick perry surrounded himself with a lot of people that have extreme views. you think of the call, his big event, bring rain to solve the problems of the country and have divine revelations to solve economic problems, one of the co-sponsors of that event is john haky. and john mccain had to reject the endorsement of john haguey because of haguey's anti-catholic views and comments about the holocaust being divinely inspired. so in a way this is rick perry's jerimiah wright problem. it is a familiar refayne in american politics that political figures are responsible for the religious views of their religious endorsers. i think this is the 2008 conversation that's now presenting itself in the 2012 race n that regard, i think rick perry, this has always been an issue for him. i think it will get worse as the views of other people around him begin to be made public. >> bruce, appreciate you being with us. >> let us know what you think. we're on facebook and twitter. coming up, the wall street movement and the politicians condemning it even though they praise the tea party movement for using the same tactics. is that hypocritical? and amanda knox faced physical abuse in prison and dr. drew pinsky to talk about what will be ahead for her. >> jurors today heard what michael jackson's doctor told police about his patient and just how medicated he was. that and much more when 360 continues. keeping them honest with law makers who don't like when people rally in large numbers to protest against government keeping them honest with law makers who don't like when people rally in large numbers to protest against government policies. they don't like it at all. when they like the same thing, they love the idea of people rallying in large numbers and raising voice todz voices to protest. now the wall street movement is entering the fourth week. thousands gathering in austin, texas, mipz, seattle, atlanta. we're also talking about the tea party movement over the last two years like occupy wall street, there are people from all over life. people in the movement hold a grab bag of political views and policy goals. neither side resorted to violence. both sides are calling for peaceful change within the political process. large numbers of arrests in the of course wi wall street movements in new york. you may agree with one side, neither or both. common sense says you can't call this dangerous destructive and anti-american for their protest rallies. the other side patriotic when both sides are using pretty much the same tactics. that's what some politicians are doing. listen to them condemn the wall street rallies. >> well if, you look at what they're telling the media, they don't know why they're there. they're just mad. this attack upon business, attack upon industry and freedom, now the unions seem to be weighing in and trying to subvert that anger in a political power to try to re-elect a president whose policies are just totally ignorant and incompetent. >> i, for one, am increasingly concerned about the growing mobs occupying wall street and the other cities across the country. and believe it or not, some in this town have actually condoned the pitting of americans against americans. >> i don't have facts to back this up. but i happen to believe that these demonstrations are planned and orchestrated to distract from the fail policies of the obama administration. don't blame wall street. don't blame the big banks. if you don't have a job and you are not rich, blame yourself. >> some of the voices speaking out. senator orrin hatch slamming them saying they're alarming and we're going to get more of it. we'll have riots in this country because of what these people are doing. that was him just yesterday. listen to him and others talking about tea party rallies. >> i've been watching what the tea party does. i'm impressed. >> the tea party movement is expressing the most powerful political force in america. it's written in the constitution of the united states, we, the people. we, the people, expressing their concern about their loss of freedom. physical irresponsibility of this administration in the leadership here in this house. >> first i'd like to thank you, though, for being here and for fighting on the front lines of what we know is truly a battle for our democracy. >> what do you think about this whole tea party citizens movement? i said it's getting bigger, stronger, and more impactful. >> again, the issue is not what each side believes but rather politicians on one side rallying expressing democracy and the other side's rally, a threat it to. joining us is co-chair of the tea party express. do you think it is fair to make comparisons between say the early tea party movement and the occupy wall street protests? >> you know, we -- it was an organic movement. i don't know if this is organic or not. the tea party movement was organic. we started by having rallies. we evolved into something else. can you make that comparison. i think that we're both mad as heck about the bailout of the banks. but other than that, i don't see a lot of comparisons. we're trying to reign in the spending in washington. the answer to what we believe to washington's problems are less government, smaller government. they want more government, bigger government. so i don't see that there's a lot of comparison. >> i'm not talking about necessarily the beliefs. obviously, although the bailout issue, the issues have different. but the large group, you know, groups of people who are angry and are coming together, coalescing and early on it sort of a hodgepodge of different ideas. i remember some of the early tea party rallies. >> i have to disagree with you on that. anderson, when we came together, there was one thing that brought us all together and that was out of control spending in washington. it was all about making washington live within their means. from what i've heard from these people, half of them don't even know why they're there. and they have this list of demands that is completely unreasonable. >> let me jump in there. i mean i think the same, you know, i think it's easy to go down to one of the wall street protests, grab out a few people, quiz them and make them look bad. that was done to a lot of tea party folks. >> it's still done. >> i think unfairly. it's very easy to take one person out of a crowd who doesn't know the issues and say well, look, clearly the tea party doesn't know what they're talking b also i remember seeing early tea party stuff. i agree central issue is reigning in spending. i would argue it seems like to me that the central issue with the wall street people is greed on wall street. you look at some of those -- yes, people have this whole hodgepodge of other issues. i remember early tea party rallies, there are pictures of people there for illegal immigration and greater gun control. they were there for less gun control. they're opposed to socialism. so aren't early on there is a hodgepodge of different issues? >> there may be. even today you can go out and you'll find different factions within the movement that are focused on different things. overall, we're focused in reigning in spending. another thing is, i don't know if i said about the rest. we came together. it's been peaceful. we've been completely peaceful. last weekend alone in new york city there were 700 arrests. i mean that is not representative at all of what this tea party movement is about. we are very focused. we know what we want to do. and, you know, maybe they'll figure out what they want to do. but the thing is you can't be mad at wall street. what wall street did was completely legal. wall street -- these people are protesting against capitalism. what america was made -- that's what america is. and they're protesting against capitalism. they want to take capitalism down? yet, they're mad at the banks being bailed out. that is double talk out of both sides of their mouth. if they were -- i mean it's capitalism that would have allowed the banks to fail. instead, wall street had an ace up their sleeve. they reached back to washington and the money was pumped into there. so, you know, what do they want? do they want capitalism or do they want socialism? we want capitalism. we want to protect this great country and what was founded upon, the constitution. and we want washington to live within their means. >> amy kramer, i appreciate you coming on. thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. let's turn to princeton university cornell west who co-host a radio program smiling west and he joins me now. professor, thanks very much. we were just talking to a tea party organizer who's basically asking what do these people on wall street want? it seems like they're against capitalism. is there a central -- from what i've heard, the people i heard talking, there's a lot of different people with a lot of different opinions. is there a central point, a central belief? >> let me first say that i'm blessed to be a small part of the occupy wall street movement, 101 cities aren't world or 70 cities in the united states. the major issue is corporate greed. 1% of the population own 40% of the wealth. 100% income growth in the last ten years went to the top 10%. 83% of income growth over the last 25 years went to 1%. we're calling for the renewal of democracy. and i'm not a leader, i'm one voice among others. but it's very clear the corporate greed and the presidential complex and the military industrial complex, in the corporate media complex and on wall street is sucking the democratic energies out of our society. this is not a question of an ism. this is a question of individual liberty we support. social justice, we support. fighting corporate greed, we must do to pass on democracy to the younger generation. >> we just played a montage of a lot of republicans who praised the tea party movement early on but are calling the occupy wall street protesters mobs saying essentially it's dangerous. when you hear that kind of rhetoric, what do you think? >> i mean, i just heard the mayor of new york say this is one of the most peaceful groups that he's seen. 700 arrests. this is peaceful arrests. this is in a tradition of martin luther king jr., dorothy day, civil disobedience is a form of democracy. it's been profoundly peaceful. but every movement has a variety of different voices, viewpoints, lunatic friends. there was some very ugly things at the tea party brother ands sisters did. t