Republican and Democratic Leaders set to meet with the president for highstakes negotiations on the debt ceiling. America is not a deadbeat nation. We pay our bills. With the Clock Ticking toward a june 1st default deadline failure to do that would be unprecedented. We talk with two powerful senators who have a history of working across the aisle about how to avoid an economic meltdown. We should never put the credit of the United States at risk. Until the president engages, it doesnt matter what we do. Later this hour country superstar Miranda Lambert on how she could set a new record in Country Music. It sounds really big when you say it like that. Is that part of your super power . Get it done, baby. It was possible that i may not see the end of the year. You mishandled that . I dont know if i mishandled im a little wistful. This is not where i thought this story was headed. Good evening and welcome back to whos talking. Its called the x day, the day when the u. S. Government defaults on its debt. Its never happened, but thats what were facing if republicans and democrats dont agree on a deal to raise the nations debt ceiling by the end of the month. Next week, President Biden meets with top congressional leaders from both parties. But will they agree to compromise . Tonight, we sit down with two senators to explore if were headed for an economic cliff. Maryland democrat ben cardin and Louisiana Republican bill cassidy. Senator cardin, how bad will it be if the u. S. Defaults on its debt for the first time in history . In the real world, what will it mean for people who rely on Government Services and government checks . Chris, first, its good to be with you. It will be a disaster. You can see the specific impacts on our veterans on our seniors, their programs are going to be cut dramatically. But its the reputation of america. Its the cost of our debt, the cost to taxpayers, the loss of americas use of the dollar as the International Currency would be at risk. It would be a disaster for this country. We should never put the credit of the United States at risk. My guess is this is one of the few areas the two of you are going to agree on. Senator cassidy, were talking about reneging on the full faith and credit of the United States government. What would this mean in terms of the markets, jobs, and the overall economy . I think ben put it well. But i think the real question is, how do we get out of it . I would argue that now is the time for president ial leadership. There is a not just a vacuum of president ial leadership, i say its a black hole. People come to senators and say, oh, would you put together something that could rescue our country from this problem . I say, until the president engages, it doesnt matter what we do. So its more than a vacuum, its a black hole because its sucks out leadership from every place else. If its going to be so terrible, joe biden needs to step up. Okay, so youve anticipated where i wanted to take this. The president is meeting with the top congressional leaders of both houses next tuesday at the white house. What do you expect from that meeting . And honestly, how real are the chances, loongt the situation here In Washington, that this time we could go over the financial cliff, that we could default on our debt . Id like to think that that is unlikely to occur. Its always been in the past, people have threatened it. But its always come through. But when you look at this meeting on tuesday, i actually see schumer and mcconnell as window dressing. This is between the president and kevin mccarthy. And is just to explain, because the house is run by the republicans, and obviously the white house and the senate are run by democrats. Correct. But i say this because the Spending Bill has to originate in the house and the president has to sign it into law. Its got to pass the house majority. You may not like that, but its not to and the president s got to engage. Until the president engages seriously, nothing moves forward. Im glad that the four are meeting. I think its important that theyre meeting. But i think the engagement needs to take place on next years Spending Bills and Appropriation Bills and revenue bills, not on holding hostage the full faith and credit of the United States. So yes, the president is engaged. But senator cardin, you say hes engaged. The fact is that they met in february, House Speaker mccarthy, President Biden. They havent met since then. Where has the president been . In other words, even if you want to say were going to separate spending from the debt, were not going to make one contingent on the other, why not engage on the issues of spending and the economy and then pass a clean debt limit . Were already paying a cost for getting this close. Its already affecting our reputation. This should not be an issue. See, i think youre avoiding the point. If the president were showing leadership, sure, the circumstances may not the chess pieces may not be where you want to have them. But they are where they are. Now, if you want to do it differently, that we have have some budget talks here and a debt ceiling there, you need to make Movement Towards that. Not say, bring me exactly what i want and i refuse to engage until i see exactly what i want. Thats not president ial leadership, thats president ial passivity. We need an active president. Bill, the as you point out, these bills originate in the house. The house should have sent over a vehicle that we could work on, not what they did, which is a nonstarter. We shouldnt be in this debate. We knew this at the beginning of this congress, that we had to pass the debt ceiling. We should have done that when you say nonstarter, it is an opening play. Its not at all. Then offer a counteroffer. The counteroffer is, pass the debt ceiling extension, lets sit down and talk about the budget. Thats how weve done it it in the past. Thats actually not true. Pelosi was an expert at drawing these out and then extracting something from President Trump. A total expert. Now, the idea that, oh my gosh, weve never seen this before In Washington, just defies history. I love the fact that were agreeing on all this. Let me ask you, before we move on to some of specifics, as we sit here today, what are the chances give me a number that we are going to not pass the debt limit by june 1st or june 10th, whatever it is, and were going to go into default . I would hope that, for the sake of our economy, for the sake of our Economic Future and americas reputation, we will not go off the cliff. Were too close to the cliff right now. Tell me what president joe bidens going to do. Is he going to be passive . In which case, call it 80 . Is he going to engage like previous president s have engaged . Then i would say 5 . The real variable here is, do we have president ial leadership . Or do we have president ial passivity . Senator cardin, lets look at the plan that the republicans, House Republicans, passed last week. 3. 2 trillion in Spending Cuts over the next decade. Repeal of some Clean Energy Tax breaks. Some new Work Requirements for welfare recipients. I understand its an opening bid, theres a lot of stuff there thats unacceptable to the democrats. But the economy, our National Debt is now 31 trillion. Dont we have to take drastic steps to address that . Weve already spent this money. Were going to pay our bills. When youre talking about spending programs and Revenue Programs of the future, you do that during the budget. We have to do it by october 1. Otherwise, government is in threat of shutting down. Theres enough leverage back and forth in negotiating the spending programs for our country. Dont do it on this bill. This is a debt ceiling. This is the credit of america. This is weve already committed these dollars. We have to honor our debt. Senator cassidy, wheres the basis for negotiation if Speaker Mccarthy and the House Republicans are going to take a make a bunch of proposals that are unacceptable to democrats . Speaker mccarthy has people never before voting for a Debt Ceiling Increase Voting for this bill. You may say, we cant accept it in its current form. Give us something back. We three are married, i presume all happily. My wife will bring me a proposal, ill say, dear, im not quite sure, well have a negotiation. Consider this like any sort of typical kitchen table, do we take a vacation here, do we take a vacation there . Bring something back. We need president ial leadership, not president ial passivity. By the way, let me point out the idea that theres nothing we can stop Spending Money on is absurd. Right now the president ial pause on Student Loan Repayment adds 5 billion a month to our indebtedness. It moves that Debt Ceiling Crisis day, if you will, that much closer. The original rationale for that pause for Student Loan Repayment was the Public Health emergency. That has ended. So the president s policies are actively making the situation worse. The idea that we cant do anything is just a little bit kind of like when you say we cant do anything, what about increasing taxes on the wealthy and corporations . You know, im struck that the president , of course, always its his goto, 4. 5 billion. The argument its also going to have a negative effect on gdp. Ill just say that. But lets put up with something which is reasonable. The president s got 4. 5 trillion in taxes bill, youre criticizing the president s revenue proposals, but we need to get into those discussions. Im with you on that. Just dont do it holding our country hostage with a default on our debt, thats ridiculous. This seems to be one of the democrat arguments or hopes is that in the end, that the pressure is going to be on republicans, republicans will be blamed as we get closer and closer for putting the country in jeopardy on the debt and that, in the end, your party will blink and pass a clean debt ceiling. What are the chances of that . I cant say that. All i can say is right now, the president is like rope a doping. He is just like, pound me a way. Im going to blame it on old, evil, mean republicans and theyre going to have to fold. It seems like the president s looking more for an issue for a real act than hes looking for an opportunity to lead our country as the leader of all americans. I would argue that president s got to be a leader. Im seeing no leadership from this president. Coming up, our conversation turns to how much more youre now paying thanks to inflation. 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Default on our National Debt is not the only problem facing the country. This week, the Federal Reserve raised Interest Rates for the tenth time from zero to now over 5 . I continue our conversation asking the senators how far should the fed go in the fight against inflation . And are we at risk of a recession . I hope that those Exercise Restraint i believe in the independence of the fed, so im not going to dictate what theyre going to do. Im going to tell you this, though. Interest rates have a negative impact. Increasing Interest Rates have a negative icket pact on our economy. I onlook at employment numbers, i think our economy is strong and i hope that we can find a way to have a soft landing so that we can get back to a more reasonable pressure on how we use Interest Rates. Senator cassidy, how much confidence do you have in the Federal Reserve to get inflation under control without tanking the economy . Theyre in tough shape. And i will say, the feds trying to keep up with this administrations policies. Joe biden inherited low inflation rates. But you can start targeting the increased inflation from when he passed his 1. 9 trillion package after the pandemic was over. But they by golly wanted to spend it, and on a partisan basis they did. They continue to pursue policies which pump dollars into the economy. Theyre in tough shape. We need the administration to help them. Thats another reason why we need to have a negotiation in which we lower spending. Joe biden also inherited a large debt thanks to the Trump Administration you voted for his bills. Not the 2017 tax bill, i did not vote for wait one minuteness now, my friend. Wait one minute. I love the two of you together, getting a little handsy here. Youre blaming everything on politics here, but lets be clear about what brian inherited. He inherited a large debt, he inherited a 2017 tax bill he added to the debt. The Trump Administration also added to it. No, i agree. But then 2017 tax bill is one of the leading causes for the high debt we have today. It gave tax breaks to the wealthy and large corporations, and were paying that cost today. If we move beyond Talking Points thank you. We can talk about the tax cut and jobs act bill which gave us record low unemployment, which gave us Income Growth disproportionately among the lower incomes these are the trump tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations. As he phrases it. Thats what they were. I would say, this would be the trump tax cuts, the congressional tax cuts that actually created the best economy in any of our lifetimes. Why do we have so much debt . In the c. A. R. E. S. Act no, wait a minute. Weve gotten too much into the weeds. Inflation is clearly a problem, and well have to satisfy are see what the fed does, whether or not it works, whether the landing is soft or hard. Senator c