beyond their leaking embarrassing company e-mail and employee records. now they are actually warning of what they describe as a 9/11-style assaul targeting movie theaters in the united states that show "the interview," the new comedy mocking the north korean leader kim jong-un. peter king is standing by along with our correspondents, our analysts and our guests. let's get the very latest, though, right now on the chilling new threat to target movie theaters throughout the united states. our justice correspondent pamela brown is joining us. what are you hearing, pamela? >> it's clear with this latest report from the sony hackers are trying to ratchet of fear. seth rogen has canceled all appearances today and tomorrow and now u.s. federal investigators are looking into the threat. tonight, the fbi's investigating a threatening message reportedly from the sony hackers promising a bitter fate to anyone watching "the interview". >> the cia would love it if you can take him out. >> huh? >> take him out. >> the message says soon all the world will see what an awful movie sony pictures entertainment has made. the world will be full of fear. remember the 11th of september 2001. >> with this hack in particular, information is just leaking out day after day after day and now they've got all of these threats against people. if you go see the movie, be careful. they are threatening of families of sony employees. i mean, this has taken hacking to are a level we've never seen before. >> reporter: a leaked scene from "the interview" shows an attack on kim jong-un. u.s. law enforcement sources tell cnn the strong suspicion is that the reclusive company is the instigate for of the hack as retaliation for the controversial film. tonight, the fbi is scrubbing sony's computer system, trying to gather enough evidence to definitively point a finger at the hacking culprit. >> it's a complex new wants investigation and it involves not just going into your own i.t. systems but hackers have gone through multiple, multiple infrastructures to get to where they have gotten to. so it's not something that sony is going to solve in a day or a week or a month. >> reporter: it's had a devastating effect on the entertainment company revealing personal information of employees and fallacious e-mail exchanges of a-list celebrities. u.s. law enforcement sources say they believe they were penetrating their computer system as early as this past summer but it wasn't until later the company reported it to authorities who began investigating in november. and today, former employees of sony filed a class-action lawsuit saying the company was negligent and didn't do enough to protect its computer system. wolf? >> what a story. pamela, thanks very much. how difficult is it to pin down the threat of this new threat? evan perez is, working this part of the story for us. what are you learning, evan? >> wolf, the hackers in this case are banking on anonymity. by showing that the attacks came from japan or thailand or another country they are saying that the fbi will not be able to unmask them. they are working around the clock on this case. there's things they can look at. they can determine what type of keyboard was used to try to carry out -- to right the malware to carry out these attacks and look at fonts and misspellings that are found in the malware, that can give te tell-tale signs of who is leading this. they are not 100% sure but all fingers point to north korea, wolf. >> how seriously are they taking this threat of another, quote, 9/11? >> well, you know, that's -- it's a little bit of a mixed bag on that. because i think they say that there's not any indication that there's actually any threats against u.s. movie theaters showing this film. in some ways this may just encourage people outside who may decide to call in bomb threats and therefore that's the day to get people to clear out of movie theaters. that's easily done, wolf. we have a statement from the department of homeland security on just -- this very question. they say, we are still analyzing the credibility of these statements but at this time there's no credible intelligence to indicate an active plot against movie theaters within the united states. but this is something, even though they don't believe the people behind the hack are actually able to carry out anything like this, there's plenty of room for other people to do mischief, wolf. >> evan, thanks very much. the controversial new film which has so infuriated north korea's regime is creating a sensitive situation in japan where sony, of course, is based. cnn's will ripley is in tokyo and has this part of the story. >> reporter: right now we're driving up to sony headquarters in tokyo. this is where the top executives work and inside that building right now they are dealing with a major crisis. a humiliating cyberattack on their american subsidiary sony pictures entertainment. hackers calling themselves guardians of peace leaked embarrassing, sensitive insider information. they are promising more punishment on christmas day when sony is set to release the interview." the comedy is about two journalists killing kim jong-un. north korea's supreme leader reportedly infuriated. top officials call the movie an act of war. >> obviously pyongyang is very upset with this movie depicting the assassination of their leader and the fact that the ceo of sony was directly involved. >> reporter: temple university professor jeff kingston says what may be a joke to some is deadly serious to north korea. i was in their capital of pyongyang a few months ago. pictures of their leaders are everywhere, almost like gods. here in asia, defending honor is everything. so there's speculation that north korea planned this for revenge. if sony suspects anything, they are not saying it publicly. a spokesman acknowledged growing speculation but would only say the investigation is ongoing. a university professor says to understand why sony may be hesitant to point the finger at north korea, you need to know the geo politics at play. >> do you think any japanese lawmakers would ask sony not to criticize north korea? >> maybe. >> reporter: north korea still maintains this unofficial embassy in tokyo. while the nations have no formal diplomatic ties, pyongyang has some ties. while north korea may seem distant to most of the world, its military launches project tiles into the sea of japan. pea you pyongyang forced the abductees to train north korean spies. >> the abductee issue is extremely sensitive in japan. >> reporter: tokyo and pyongyang are in the middle of sensitive talks that japan hopes will lead to more reunions in 2002. some fear it could all fall apart if the sony hacking controversy escalates. you won't find posters for "the interview" here in tokyo because the film is not being released in japan but the hackers warn if sony doesn't stop the release altogether, the worst may be yet to come. >> joining me now, a key member of the house intelligence committee, peter king of new york. congressman, thanks very much for joining us. let's talk about the sony hackers, they are threatening what they describe is another 9/11-type attack. how seriously should we be taking this threat? >> well, wolf, we have to take every threat seriously. having said that, you can be sure the fbi and department of homeland security and all of our intelligent sources will track this down as carefully as possible and right now there's no credit ble evidence that the is a plot that we have to be concerned about. having said that, it's going to be looked at very, very carefully. right now it appears to be a threat which cannot be followed through on. but that doesn't mean that we should let our guard down. we should take it seriously as far as looking at it but we should go on with our every day lives. >> do you think north korea is behind this threat? >> well, it's -- to me it's obviously -- only evidence is that a nation state is behind it. as far as i'm concerned, north korea was an organized crime family disguised as a nation state but there's no -- it's not definitive yet as to who do it but certainly a nation state and certainly it would appear, if it is a country that did it, it would be north korea. but my understanding is -- certainly i'm not in a position to say that the investigation has been complete but i think it's probably a safe assumption to say, it's north korea. >> if north korea did this, is that an act of war? >> it's certainly an act against our country and against our interests. obviously an act of war has legal connotations but i think we have to stop kidding ourselves to think we have any chance of having a cordial or working relationship with north korea. as i said, this is an organized gang of criminals that run north korea and the sooner we face up to that and realize that's the reality, the better we are. what action the president wants to take, of course, as commander in chief, that's his prerogative. to call it an act of war, that's probably going too far at this stage but certainly is an act against national sovereignty. >> should this movie, do you believe, be released on christmas day and if it is, should security around the country be increased as a result of this threat? >> i don't believe we should be backing down to these threats and as far as security, i would lead that to the local police and theater themselves as to what they want to do. i know, for instance, in new york whenever there is threats of any type, whether it's a jewish holiday, a national event, a national holiday, for instance, the nypd always takes appropriate security measures. but again, i would lead that up to them but the overriding point has to be, unless we have credible evidence, we can't be giving it to these terror threats because they can threaten us all the time and stop every major event we have in the country. >> would you go see this movie with your family? >> i don't know if i'd go to the movie. i wouldn't be afraid to go to the movie because. threat. i'd have to see the reviews. probably i'd go now as an act of defiance but i'm not a big movie guy. >> this is a comedy bass it shows that the leader kim jong-un is going to be killed or at least the u.s. is going to try to assassinate him. is it appropriate to assassinate a world leader in a film that is a comedy like this one? >> there's no reason not to do it. i'm not saying it's always good form. to me, if we're talking about -- again, you're the leader of an organized crime country, i would say that there's nothing immoral or inappropriate about it. whether it is or isn't, the fact that today, the 21st century, you don't threaten to kill people because you don't like a movie. back in the 1930s, '40s, terrible things have been said about our presidents, our leaders and it's a question, are you civilized society or not and north korea is not a civilized society. congressman, i want you to stand by. we're going to move on. there's other threats out there including a horrific, horrific attack on school kids in pakistan. stay with us. much more coming up. shopping online is as easy as it gets. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters and even piano tuners were just as simple? thanks to angie's list, now it is. start shopping online from a list of top-rated providers. visit angieslist.com today. i want to turn to the horror that happened in pakistan today, a terrorist attack on a school. gunmen slaughtering children, wherever they could find them, kids. the death toll stands at 132 children murdered. ten staff members and three pakistani soldiers. seven terrorists also died in the assault. our chief national security correspondent jim sciutto is with me here in "the situation room." tell our viewers what we know. >> it's an attack so barbaric that even the afghan taliban condemned it today. it's an unprecedented assault saying it may signal an escalation in already a bloody conflict between the pakistani government and the pakistani taliban known as the ttp. ttp has been under intense pressure by the taliban military and they found an opportunity to retaliate with children today. the pakistani military says that they had ammunition and supplies to last for days and this was certainly a suicide operation, that the terrorists intended both to kill and to die there. pakistani taliban's chief aim bringing down the pakistani government and establishes sharia law in that country and has a history of targeting the u.s. in 2009, a taliban suicide bomber killed seven cia officers in eastern afghanistan. in 2010, the group claiming responsibility for the attempted car bombing in new york city and following the killing of osama bin laden in pakistan, the group vowed more attacks, wolf, on u.s. soil. >> the pakistan taliban says this was revenge against the pakistani military for an operation that was conducted against them. what do you know about this? >> an ongoing military operation by pakistan in the northeastern part of the court, which is their stronghold. it's had an effect. the u.s. has been pressing pakistan to take on the group more aggressively on the ground. it seems to be having an effect both here as well as some 3,000 counter terror operations across the country. now, as the pakistani military took the fight to the taliban, there have been fears among politicians about blow back. we may have seen that today but one u.s. official saying that this could be seen as an act of desperation as the pakistani taliban comes under pressure and remember this is a matter of competition, that the taliban capability by carrying out - attacks like this and when you have groups like isis which is drawing support and members and leaders, even the spokesman from a pakistani taliban in effect changes sides and going to isis. it's a competitive atmosphere. they see that isis is cap vat ti vating the world. >> and they think this gives them credibility by killing children? >> they consider it a success when they capture your attention. they've certainly captured our attention today. >> brutal. jim sciutto, thank you very much. let's go to congressman peter king of new york. he's on the homeland security and intelligence committees. this pakistan taliban group, the ttp, did this attack on school kids. how concerned are you that if they are willing to kill pakistani children, muslims, how concerned are you about what they might be willing to do to nonmuslims, whether they are americans or others? >> it was the ttp which back in 2009 attacked times square with the car bomb attacks. fortunately it was not successful but it shows that they are willing to attack us here and if they would kill children, murder -- intentionally murder children in cold blood, they are capable of anything and if they are desperate to get attention, they want to show viability, we have to be very, very concerned. it just adds to this list of al qaeda affiliates, islamist organizations that are focused on attacking westerners, attacking europeans and the u.s. certainly by the ttp, what they did yesterday just shows that they are absolute animals. >> yeah. they basically said, if you are below purity, you are not going to die if you're 8, 9 years old but if you are older, you are going to die and they killed 130 schoolkids in this assault. it's hard to imagine that type of brutality. here's the next question about u.s. drone strikes which continue in that area in pakistan. on balance, do you believe they are productive, even though they may antagonize these groups, make them more anti-american, or are they not productive? >> no, i think they are productive and these groups are going to be anti-american no matter what and this is one area where i fully plea for president obama on to continue to use drones and used extensively and they are effective. they are not the only answer. they are effective and the fact that we may be antagonizing groups like the taliban, it's a vote of confidence because it shows that we're having an impact on them and, again, to me we always use these excuses. if we do this, do that, we're going to antagonize them. we did nothing to antagonize them and they attacked us on 9/11. during the 1990s, the only time we used military force and the response we got to that was the attack on the "uss cole" and the attack on 9/11. we have to go on offense and not worry about hurting their feelings because they hate us no matter what we do. >> is the government of pakistan, the military there, doing everything it should to go up against these kinds of terror groups? >> well, obviously -- obviously it's had a mixed record over the years. certainly intelligence agencies has been very sketchy over the years but i would say in more recent months they have been more effective. they have been responding more to cooperating with us and the fact that they are carrying out these effective attacks on the pakistani taliban is the reason that the school was attack. as brute as that was, it shows the impact that we're having on them and the fact that they are willing to lose support among the afghan military to do it shows, again, the pakistani military has been effective against the pakistani taliban and they have to keep it up. they have to use this as an incentive to go forward, not to back off. >> because you know the afghan knee taliban, they condemned it saying that the taliban were killing, in their words, innocent people which obviously was the case. >> right. >> what is the connection, if any, between the pakistan taliban, isis, al qaeda, some of these other splinter groups, al shabab, she's various groups out there? >> all of them have connections but it's like shifting alliance. there's a time when al shabab will be cooperating and when al qaeda in the peninsula will be cooperating with al qaeda. they are shifting alliances but come together on the premise that they want to destroy western civilization and kill jews and christians and they all have targets against the u.s. so again, it's varying degrees but the fact is that they are all cut from the same cloth and they are all evil and islamists and focused on getting the united states. >> less than a week ago there have been a lot of these reports that the united states actually released a pakistani taliban commander who had been being held in the u.s. military prison in afghanistan. could that have had an impact on what happened today in some sort of perverse way? >> wolf, it's possible. any time we release any of these people we run this risk and i think that's why we have to stop feeling story for them, realize there's a high recidivism rate and, again, what the motive for today was, i assume the main motive, as i said before, it's the fact that retaliation against the pakistani military. but as far as different people that are released or not released, we have to assume to me that there's a very good likelihood that they are going to go back on the battlefield or they are going to have an influence on those in the battlefield. >> representative peter king of new york, thanks very much for joining us. >> wolf, thank you. coming up, an over looked question amid the furor over the release of the movie about kim jong-un. should this be off limits in a movie even if it's a comedy? also, what more can be done to prevent attacks like this week by mentally unstable people inspired by propaganda? hello... i'm an idaho potato farmer and our big idaho potato truck is still missing. so my buddy here is going to help me find it. here we go. woo who, woah, woah, woah. it's out there somewhere spreading the word about americas favorite potatoes: heart healthy idaho potatoes and the american heart association's go red for women campaign. if you see it i hope you'll let us know. always look for the grown in idaho seal. we're covering the breaking news, the news threat of terrorists attacking movie theaters. with us in "the situation room," our law enforcement analyst tom fuentes, former assistant director of the fbi. also, senior legal analyst, jeffrey toobin and kim masters, editor at large for "the hollywood reporter." thank you for joining us. tom, let me start with you. law enforcement officials are taking this threat from this group so-called guardians of peace. i assume they are taking it seriously. they have no choice. are they pretty sure, based on what you are hearing, this is a front for north korea? >> no, i don't think they are sure of that yet even though it looks like that. yes, they have to take it seriously any time someone says they are going to use explosive devices somewhere in an incident like this, they are taking it serious. i think they are more thinking that the movie is going to bomb rather than be bombed. >> we'll see if that happens. kim, you're out there in los angeles. is sony taking this threat seriously? >> sony has to attack the threat seriously. they are completely paralyzed. all manner of information has leaked about their employees, about their internal communications, about their relationships with talent, movies that have not been released yet and there are still more leaks to come. the studio is in a state of total panic and relationships in tatters. this is a very serious act of cyb cyber sabotage. i suspect no business in any part of the industrial world has seen, in this country, something on this order. >> are they going to amp up security at various premiers of the film because it's supposed to open nationally on christmas day. >> there is still to come a premier on thursday in new york. i'm sure they will amp up security and the premier they held in los angeles. the stars, seth rogen and james franco have canceled all media interviews. >> kim, can we assume it's north korea that is responsible for all of this? >> based on my reporting, i suspect that they actually do know that it's north korea. i think the problem is, if you say that, then you really do have to figure out what you're going to do about it and this is not only a cyberattack on american soil but now a threatened physical attack. what do you do? i think it's in everybody's interests for now to say it could be north korea but we're not sure. >> peter, this movie, it's a comedy, lighthearted, supposed to not be taken all that seriously but still begs the question, is it okay from a philosophical sense to make a comedy about the assassination of a world leader? >> look, there are lots and lots of comedies that come out every year that are in very, very bad taste that one can question but i think it's really beside the point. i mean, what you have here is one of the most horrific regimes acts, again, in an entirely lawless and thuggish way, assuming it's them, and the important thing is to make clear that one gives no quarter to this. just as a conversation about whether a picture of mohammed might also be in bad taste, once people use violence to oppose it, i think that becomes the moral focus. >> jeffrey, as you know, the great screen writer aaron sorkin criticized the news media's coverage of the hack on sony pictures saying what the news media have done is wrong by releasing this information no useful purpose was done. does aaron sorkin have a good point? >> well, let me answer that in two ways. legally he doesn't. i don't think there's any doubt that the news media has a right to cover this material, to peck and choose what to cover and i think by and large they have kept to their definition of what's news worthy. so as a legal point, no. morally, i think it's a closer question. we live in a society where we have the news media, journalists decide what is newsworthy, not the government, not outsiders and i think that's the best system. i think this case is a little hard for the media to be on our high horse too much because this, after all, is about a movie in a movie studio. this is not exactly the pentagon papers. but ultimately i do think we have to leave these decisions up to journalists, not to the people that we're writing about, even when we get access to documents in unusual or even a distasteful way as what happened here. >> tom, you want to weigh in? >> yes. i don't think the u.s. government will be afraid to name north korea if they think they've done it and have the evidence to prove it. they brought charges against the chinese military. if they can tie this to north korea, they will say so. >> and the chinese military incident, they blamed some guys in the chinese military. they stopped just short of saying the chinese government knew about this, was responsible. a very thin line, as i remember. >> it was very then because they named the individuals involved in the military facility they were working in in shanghai. they did everything but say that the government directly ordered this. >> i am can, you're plugged in there in hollywood. any chance that sony will decide not to release this film in the united states? as you know, they are not releasing it in japan. >> i think the question is whether the theater owners are going to want to play this movie. their stock is being hurt right now because of this threat. and i think if you're a theater owner, why would you want to take a chance on playing this movie? and you know, it's all very well and good to talk about, we don't want to cowtow to a dictator but to show a leader of any state, particularly when they are nuclear armed and paranoid, i don't think any other studio in hollywood would have done this and i further think that you will not see chinese villains. china is such an important box office now. i think you'll see them stay away from chinese villains so it's not as though the studios -- they are reporting to their shareholders. they are not trying to stand by seth rogen with what is, after all, a stoner comedy. >> kim, just to be precise on this, you think if sony had to do it all over again, they would have walked really far away from this screenplay? >> i believe no other studio but sony would have said yes to this. i don't believe disney or fox or warner brothers would have said yes. sony headquartered in tokyo, ever since they bought this studio in 1989, there's been a chasm. in this case, they actually negotiated the degree of violence in the depiction of the assassination of kim jong-un which is kind of missing the point. i feel confident in saying i don't think any other studio would have allowed it to be a real person in that role. >> jeffrey, do you want to weigh? >> look, i don't know how sony picks its movies and it's certainly not my department. but the idea that intimidation by thugs and criminals leak the people who run north korean government should be a deciding factor in what movies get made and what movies don't i think is a very chilling idea, especially if you consider, well, you know, maybe we shouldn't cover the news in north korea because then maybe we'll get in trouble as well and they will threaten us. it's a very bad precedent and i think it's a very scary thing that not withstanding the fact that it's all based on a comedy movie is something we should all take very seriously. >> peter, what do you make of the fact that -- >> this is about commerce. not art. this is commerce. this is not art. studios already edit what they put on the screen out of financial considerations. it's naive, with all due respect, to think that they don't. >> of course they do. just like book publishers. it was an important moral statement to say we do not allow a dictatorship in iran to scare people from producing books. in this movie's case, it may be a lousy movie. it doesn't matter. obviously there are commercial considerations but we should make a point, if we give in on this, you open the door for all other kinds of movies about north korea, one of the most undercover undercovered countries. >> it's not going to be shown in japan. they love american movies. >> these comedies don't play in that market. i don't think they were ever planning to release it there. i can tell you for sure, you haven't seen the studios making a lot of noise, jumping to sony's defense and it's partly you could argue because they are cowards but really they are furious that a decision that was not well thought out, that clearly was going to lead to a confrontation, potentially, and honestly is in questionable taste. artistic freedom, i would not compare that with a book to blow up, as i said, the city head of a state, any state. would it be better if it were angela merkel? i think it's the kind of thing that studios are really angry that sony has opened the door for a very silly joke. it's not lawrence of arabia. >> sure. but the question is whether you do it in the first place is different than how you react now that north korea is threatening the u.s. with violence. >> now it's a whole other question of what do you do but the question is, was this avoidable? absolutely it was. >> i have a very important question for tom fuentes. tom, a lot of viewers are going to want to go see this. it's supposed to open nationally on christmas day. should they be scared to go to a movie theater in the united states and watch this film given the threats coming from somebody -- we don't know if they are north korea, some front group, somebody else, we have no idea. but the suspicion, as you well know inside the fbi, is that it's north korea. >> it's one thing to be able to initiate a cyberattack through computer terminals and networks and it's another to bring in explosives and carry out that type of an attack. i think the bigger fear that the fbi and the other authorities have is that other companies could be vulnerable. what if they pick a news media company? when you start having the internal workings of an organization or the destruction of data within an organization, what if they attack this network and start destroying data in the archives of cnn or releasing internal documents and e-mails between senior producers and others? so the threat that this can happen to any company, the data disruption is part of the program here, that's scary. >> it scared me. i did an interview and they say their estimate, it's shocking, 90% of american companies are vulnerable to what sony pictures is now going through, a hacking attack like this. all right. we've got to leave it right there. we're going to watch this story. tom fuentes, thank you very much. jeffrey toobin, kim master, thank you very much. we'll stay on top of this story. up next, we move from the threat of terror to this past week's actual terror attack. are security agencies doing enough to protect mentally unstable people from becoming radicalized by what they see on the internet? and we're getting new details about the abuse allegations involving the same new york city police officer who put eric garner in a choke hold. it's more than the driver. it's more than the car. for lotus f1 team, the competitive edge is the cloud. powered by microsoft dynamics, azure, and office 365, the team can gain real time insights and instantly share information around the globe. when every millisecond counts, staying competitive begins with the cloud. this is the microsoft cloud. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers, shopping online is as easy as it gets. carpenters and even piano tuners were just as simple? thanks to angie's list, now it is. start shopping online from a list of top-rated providers. visit angieslist.com today. new details are coming into "the situation room" where a gunman, a self-claimed muslim cleric held hostages for more than 16 hours in a downtown cafe before a s.w.a.t. team moved in. the gunman and two hostages died. authorities are still trying to peace together what exactly happened and why. let's go live to sydney where anna coren is live. >> reporter: this gunman, 50-year-old iranian immigrant man haron monis was on the terror list here in australia many years ago but recently he was taken off because it was deemed no longer to be a threat. so many here questioning authorities as to how this man with a violent history with extremist views was known to police for so many years was allowed to walk the streets freely. we're talking about somebody out on bail having been charged with serious offenses. we're talking about accessory to murder his ex-wife and sexual assault, 45 counts. despite those charges, he was walking the streets of sydney living his life and able to walk into this cafe with a gun, a shotgun. now we're also learning more details about the two victims. katrina dawson, the 38-year-old mother of three, she was helping a pregnant woman, shielding her from the gunman when the siege was taking place. we're also learning about the 34-year-old manager of the cafe, tori johnson. he tackled the gunman when he was shot in the stomach. so you can probably see the memorial behind me, this makeshift memorial which really sprung up as of yesterday morning, several hours after this 16-hour siege ended. there are now thousands of flowers, wolf. it really is quite incredible. a steady stream of people just continue to place flowers with cards, that they signed the condolence book. they are writing these powerful messages of respect, of support, solidarity, really bringing sydney together. >> it's hard to believe, as you say, anna, someone with a record, a criminal record like that, accessory to murder, 45-count sexual assault, well-known to law enforcement there had been on the terror watch list was simply walking around doing what he was doing. i'm sure that investigation will continue. anna thank you. the sydney siege is the latest in a series of the late. of attacks carried out by individuals who may have been inspired by various terror groups without having a direct connection to those terror groups. throw in mental illness potentially and that makes these attacks even tougher to prevent. what are you finding out? >> reporter: we talked to a number intelligence, counter terrorism and military officials and what they are saying is look. what if these attackers that we are seeing, they claim a connection to isis but basically, they are deranged individuals? how tough is to it track them down? while isis and al qaeda have long called for lone wolf attacks, u.s. officials are increasingly looking at a much harder to identify problem. how disturbed and violent criminals in local communities are spurred on by radical islam to launch attacks. the horror in sydney, a wake-up call. >> the perpetrator was well known to state and commonwealth authorities. he had a long history of violent crime. infatuation with extremism and mental instability. >> there always appears to be that toxic cocktail in an individual's life. where latching on to the islamic state seems to be the tipping point. >> reporter: november, he assaults new york police officers with an axe. the nypd said he converted to islam and was self-radicalized. his parents said he was depressed and spent his time online. he has no known connection to militants but visited radical websites the days before the attack. nathan is murdered on ottawa's parliament hill. the gunman has a criminal record involving drugs and violence, according to authorities. he had limited connections to at least one canadian militant on social media. it is believed he did convert to islam. september, alexander nolan is charged with first-degree murder for beheading a co-worker in oklahoma city. he has just lost his job. co-workers say he tried to convert them to islam. he had been jailed on drug charges and trying to escape jail. there was no direct link to islamic overseas groups. identifying perpetrators before they attack may require new solutions. >> the domestic based actor could strike with very little notice, which is why collaborating with state and local law enforcement is in my judgment, key. >> reporter: now look, nobody is saying that isis and al qaeda are not trying to send lone wolf attackers to the west, to this country, to launch these types. attacks. people who are religious fanatics but this notion of these other attackers with these very violent criminal back grounds, this is something that many people say local law enforcement communities are increasingly going to have to take a look at. wolf? >> thanks for that report. let's get more analysis right now. back with us here in the situation room. our law enforcement analyst tom fuentes and cnn political commentator, peter, how do you stop a lone individual like this guy in sydney, australia, man haron monis, if he has mental problems, he may not have direct links to any terror groups but may have been inspired on the internet by some of these terror groups. what do you do? >> it seems like in this case there was some reason to believe that australia should have known what was going on. they gave him asylum in the first place when there were even warning signs back then. since he's been in australia, he's been in and out of confrontations with the law for a while. i think in general, look. the plus side of this is that one lone person who is not tied to an organization, not planning something over a long period of time is not going to be able to commit something on the level of 9/11. on the down side, it is for that precise reason, because of lack of coordination with an institution, that it is so hard to fight. this is the new phase we're in. the capacity to do massive damage seems to be down but with it also, our capacity to stop it has become undermined. >> what's the most important lesson u.s. law enforcement, the fbi, other law enforcement agencies should learn from what happened in sydney? >> i think the problem is that in a way there aren't too many lessons to be learned as far as the prevention, you can't read people's minds. these people that do lone wolf attacks, if they don't share that with somebody else, if they don't try to recruit a partner or advertise it on social media that they're trying to initiate an attack or travel to join isis, there's almost no way until they take action. so it is very difficult even if somebody has a criminal record. here in the u.s. we have 800,000 people on our terror watch list. there's no way the cia, fbi, anybody can track all the people that are out there. >> yeah. this guy was convicted of also writing very awful letters to families of australian service members who died in iraq or afghanistan, so he obviously was on their watch list. all right. we'll continue our analysis. thanks very much. coming up, we'll have more on the breaking news. the sony hackers go far beyond leaked documents. now they're warning moviegoers of a 9/11 style attack on theaters showing the new film which mocks north korea's leader. and abuse on a police officer who put eric garner in a chokehold. huh, fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. everybody knows that. well, did you know genies can be really literal? no. what is your wish? no...ok...a million bucks! oh no... geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. a chilling new warning to you had a yegss invoking september 11th, trying to sabotage a new comedy movie about kim jung un. most of them children. we're learning new details. we'll talk about them. we'll talk about more with the state department spokeswoman. abuse allegations. new claims against the police officer who put eric garner in a chokehold just before he died. now another man is speaking out about what that to him. is there a pattern here of police abuse? political bombshell. jeb bush catches almost everyone off guard and sets political tongues wagging. a political move for a possible run to the white house. what major step is the former florida governor taking? we want to welcome our viewers from the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in the situation room. we're following two major breaking stories. a school master carried out by a taliban suicide force in pakistan. it has left at least 145 people dead. most of them children. also the 9/11 terror attacks being invoked in a threat against audiences for a new movie, the interview sparking controversy with its attempt to kill north korea kim jong-un. we're covering all the breaking news with our correspondents. let's begin with our justice correspondent, pamela brown. she has more on the moving terror threat. what's the latest you're picking up? >> the fbi is investigating a threatening message purportedly from the sony hacker promising a bitter fate to anyone who sees the north korean comedy. the interview set to release christmas day. this message says soon all the world will see what an awful movie sony pictures entertainment has made. the world will be full of fear. remember the 11th of september, 2001? we've learned the department of homeland security is assessing the threat's credibility. sources say they're looking into this. similar to how they would investigate a bomb threat. in reality it is unlikely the actual hack here's are thought to be outside the u.s. will do any harm here. at home the concern is that it could inspire people to call in a threat or act out in some way. meantime, multiple law enforcement sources i've spoken to stay strong suspicion is that north korea is the instigator and the hack is outsourced to a group as retaliation for the controversial film. we know the fbi is closing in on who the hacker is. the fbi is scrubbing the system to get enough evidence to point the finger at the hacking culprit. these investigations complexed and 92ances. they had months of access to the sony computer system before sony alerted federal authorities. so that's a lot of time to do a lot of damage and create barriers for investigators. >> it certainly is. thank you very much. our justice reporter evan perez is getting more information from his sources. how difficult is it to pinpoint the actual source of the threat? >> we're told by sources that these hackers tried to mask where the hack was coming from. they tried to show it was from china or the united states. they left telltale digital finger prints is fbi is using to close in on who was responsible for this. there are things they left in the malware code that they wrote that they believe is pointing the finger right back at north korea. they're not ready to say that just yet because they have a few things investigatively that both the fbi and the national security division at the justice department is doing but we believe that they're very close. and you know, that's something that will will be in the very near future. >> seriously law enforcement official are taking this threat? >> they're taking idea that some people might see this threat and try to act out as a result of it. they believe that there are people who will on christmas day phone in bomb threats and create chaos in some ways them don't really believe as pamela just mentioned that the people behind this hack are able to carry out any attacks here in the united states. that said, we have a statement from the department of homeland security on exactly this. they say that they're still analyzing the threat -- i'm sorry, the credibility of the statements but at this time there is no credible intelligence to indicate an active plot against movie theaters within the united states. as always, the homeland security department said they're working with law enforcement around the country to make sure that they are prepared and that people who want to see this movie are protected. >> as they should. thanks very much for that. we're also following other breaking news. this time a horrible story in pakistan. taliban suicide forces massacring a school. at least 145 people dead. most of them, little children. our chief national security correspondent is working the story for us. what's the very latest information we're getting about this real disaster that happened in pakistan? >> reporter: such a disaster that even the afghan taliban is condemning it. a u.s. counter terrorism official tells me this attack shows how the pakistani taliban known as the tpp has been under pressure from the military and had been seeking a high profile opportunity to retaliate. they found it 28 the most defenseless victims. >> reporter: they were killed in their school uniforms, taking exams in their classrooms, a first-aid class in the auditorium. half a dozen terrorists carrying out a systematic massacre of children. brutal even by the standards of the pakistani taliban. we were doing our school work. suddenly we heard firing. the taliban called it revenge for pakistani military operations against them. we want them to feel our pain, said a taliban spokesman. the attackers had ammunition and supplies, says the pakistani military, to last for days. a u.s. counter terrorism official called the assault unprecedented saying it may signal an escalation in an already bloody war with the pakistani government. >> mothers and fathers send their kids to school to learn and to be safe. this morning wherever you live, wherever you are, those are our children. >> reporter: the pakistani taliban's chief aim is bringing down the pakistani government. and establishing shari'a law. but it has an alarming history of targeting the u.s. as well. in 2009 the taliban suicide bomber killed seven cia officers. in 2010 they claimed responsibility for the attempted car bombing of times square in new york city and following the killing of osama bin laden, the group vowed more attacks on american soil. >> there have been instances where they've supported international terrorism. they've been aligned with grooms like al qaeda. >> reporter: washington had pressed pakistan to take on the group more aggressively on the ground. and pakistan is followed through with an ongoing military offensive against the pakistani taliban in its north eastern stronghold as well as some 3,000 counter terrorism operations. the pakistani military is taking the fight to the taliban. there have been fears of blowback. we may have seen that. today one u.s. counter terror official calling this possibly a sign of desperation but certainly, wolf, they're showing they can still have the capability of carrying out complex attacks. like this one, in the very heart of pakistani power centers. >> jim sciutto with that report. thank you very much. let's get more on the breaking news. jen, thank you for coming in. u.s. facilities, whether the embassy in islamabad or consulates, karacrackrach. i. >> we are always monitoring the safety of the personnel there. we haven't made any changes in terms of putting out public information on the ground. that tells you something. we're always watching. that's not new as of today. >> i know the secretary of state, john kerry, has been in touch with the leadership there. >> yes what is his message? >> his message is we're with you. these are our children, too. we'll work with you to fight on counter terrorism. we'll work with you to fight these threats. this was a cowardly act. this was not an act of strength. they went and took on innocent children who were dpined in their schools. that's the message he's sending to the pakistani government. >> the military, the security services, the intelligence community, fully cooperating with the united states in this war on terror? >> we're absolutely cooperating with them as a close partner. the threats from, not just the taliban but other extremist groups are not new to pakistan. unfortunately, the innocent people of pakistan have been dealing with these threats for some time so this is an ongoing effort and one we'll continue to step up over time. >> how strong are these pakistani taliban, the terrorist that's went into this little school and just slaughtered what, 130 or 140 kids? >> these were kids who were in their, they were studying. they were at their school tables, listening to their teachers. this wasn't them taking on an army or the pakistani army. this was again a sign of cowardice and not a sign of strength by this group. >> tuesday will continue its policy of trying to kill these guys with these drone strikes, right? >> as you know, we don't speak to all the steps we take but we are committed to being a counter terrorism partner with pakistan ask that will continue in the months ahead. >> publicly the pakistanis always complain about these u.s. drone strikes, an infringement on pakistani sovereignty. privately i suspect they like some of these. >> there are conversations we have with every country including pakistan. our country is dealing with threats that we don't necessarily talk about publicly but we're here to be a partner with sxask that partnership is important to us. >> i've heard from various experts that pakistani experts, that the pakistani government occasionally even provides coordinates to the u.s. that to go after certain taliban targets. enemies of the pakistani government. and then the u.s. will do so. they'll kill some taliban terrorists, if you will. then the pakistani government will complain about it. you've heard those suggestions, right? >> there are a change of reports. i'm a big watcher of your show, cnn, but i won't get into intelligence or all the work we do on counter terrorism. >> what about this attack? this attack today? could it inspire others to go after u.s. targets? the concern i've heard is if these people are willing to kill fellow muslims, fellow pakistanis, young kids, you can imagine what they would do to americans or europeans if given the chance. >> every time something like this happens, you look at what it mean or what it could mean. that's not an assessment we're making at this time. anyone serving in pakistan are in a high threat post. we provide information publicly to people living there and we certainly take necessary precautions on the ground. >> in terms of travel advisories, the state department doesn't think this is necessarily a good time for americans to visit pakistan. we've had a travel advisory in place for some time. that hasn't changed. we haven't put out new information. certainly there have long been threats and ones american citizens would face there. >> we'll continue our conversation. a lot more i want to talk about including this threat. is it coming from north korea? stand by. lots more to discuss with the state department spokeswoman after this. it's more than the driver. it's more than the car. for lotus f1 team, the competitive edge is the cloud. powered by microsoft dynamics, azure, and office 365, the team can gain real time insights and instantly share information around the globe. when every millisecond counts, staying competitive begins with the cloud. this is the microsoft cloud. i can... order safety goggles. play music for seedlings. post science fair projects. schedule guinea pig feedings. video chemical reactions. take pics of mr. bones. time the next launch. calm down principal jones. i can do all that with my android from tracfone. 90-day plans start as low as $20. unbeatable nationwide coverage. no contract. for a limited time save $20 on the new unimax maxpatriot. now just $49.99. tracfone. do everything for less. we're following breaking terror news. at least 145 people killed at a school in pakistan. most of the victims school kids. also, the chilling terror threat against audiences for the new comedy film, the interview. and its controversial plot centraling around the assassination of kim jung un. a group that claimed it hacked sony pictures, says moviegoers will suffer in their words, a bitter fate and they are warning, and i'm quoting now, very ominously, remember the 11th of september. their words. we're back with the state department spokeswoman. is north korea behind this hacking? >> the appropriate government officials are looking into that now. it takes a long time to assess where these cyber attacks come from. it is something we've unfortunately had to do more frequently lately. so there's not a final assess. of that. that is something in process. >> but they are suspected of doing it. they are under suspicion. >> well, i'm not going to get into more details, obviously, given the subject of the movie, that's not far to guess. >> do they have the capability? i know they have a nuclear bomb. >> that's one of the criteria, when you're doing an assessment, you take a look at. what are the capabilities? who could have done it? are there organizations or individuals? that's something the experts in the administration are looking at now. >> you're a diplomat. you work at the state department. we don't know for sure it was north korea. if in fact the regime did this, a, go ahead and hack sony pictures, computer released all this information. and b, issued a direct threat to americans. don't go to the movies because there will be another 9/11. that in effect is their threat. is that an act of war legally speaking? >> we don't know the source of any of that. it is important to note that there is no credible intelligence pointing to that being backed up. we take everyone seriously. that's our responsibility. let's not forget what our relationship is with north korea. there isn't one. they have worst human rights record out there. one of the worst. it is abysmal. they are constantly threatening the region, threatening many of our allies and partners. it is not a relationship that we're building on. it is one that doesn't exist. >> it does exist indirectly. the u.s. has the swedish embassy in pyongyang, passes along messages from north korea to the united states. there is a dialogue if you will. here's the question. in the aftermath of this hacking of sony pictures, has the u.s. issued a statement, a complaint, a protest, anything along those lines through swedish embassy in pyongyang? >> would you wait to make a final assess chmt handle been done yet, the source of any hacking. as nung other cases, where we have found that other organizations located in china and other places, we've taken appropriate steps. i'm sure that would be the case here. >> was it a mistake for sony pictures to have this plot, if you will, the assassination of a world leader? maybe a brutal world leader. maybe the leader of the regime in north korea. from the diplomatic perspective, and you bring that, was that a mistake? >> i have to say i don't get to see as many movies as i would like but this is a comedic movie. it is a comedy that i think americans may go see over christmas. they will make that choice. it obviously doesn't represent the views of the united states. it is not a documentary about our relationship so honestly, i think it is not a movie or a an issue that we're taking a position on. >> the whole nature of this attack though, this threat, if in fact it was north korea, you have to take it seriously. are you beefing up security? doing anything along those lines internationally at u.s. diplomatic outposts? >> if we see a need to do that, we'll do it. we don't talk about it publicly. that would defeat the purpose. there is no credible intelligence backing this up at this point in time. as is true with anywhere in the world in any of our posts, if we need to beef up security, we'll certainly take the stem to do it. if it is north korea, you conclude it is north korea, as you did a few years ago when you believed chinese military hackers were hacking into various companies, trying to get secrets in the united states and the u.s. named those individuals responsible, will the u.s. name north korea as responsible for this if you conclude, your experts in the u.s. government, that this was a north korean cyber attack? >> well, we don't know where this will hand yet. some of that is our decision that's are made through department. justice and through other law enforcement agencies that make an assessment of the appropriate steps. we're not quite there yet. we're obviously working on the assessment of what happened here and we'll take appropriate steps when we know more. >> thank you for joining us. we'll stay in touch with you. just ahead, we'll be talking about the breaking terror news with our expert analysts. we'll get more on the threat against audiences from the new film, the interview. plus more on the taliban school massacre. it is being condemned by a very unlikely source. news. the taliban suicide bomber has left at least 145 people dead. most of them little children. let's dig with in with the retired general, and our cnn terrorism analyst, paul, who are these pakistani taliban? what kind of connections if any do they have with isis or al qaeda or any of these other terror groups? >> the pakistani taliban are a conglomeration of fighters that were formed in around 2007. and since then they've been in a campaign of violence right across pakistan which has claims tens of thousands of lives. they've also launched attacks against more than a thousand schools in that period in pakistan. this is a group with close ties over the years to al qaeda, offered al qaeda sanctuary. it is also a group itself that has launched plots against the west. notably in times square in 2001 and against cia operating base in 2009. >> how do they justify killing little children? saying if you're under the age of puberty, you're going to live. if you're 8, 9 years old. if you're 11 or 12, you've already reached puberty, you should be killed in a school. how can they possibly justify that? >> this is all about retaliation against the pakistani military which have launched during this campaign against this group's stronghold in north waziristan. you kill our people, our families, our children, we'll kill yours right back. >> as you know, phillip, less than a week or so ago, the u.s. released a pakistan taliban commander who was being held at a u.s. military prison in afghanistan that the u.s. is now evacuating. could that have had any impact on the timing of this attack . >> i don't think so. every time you dig into a problem, there the problem goes back decades or even centuries. in this case you have the emergence of the taliban. over time the taliban shifted, led back into those lawless tribal belt in pakistan. the pakistani military had episodic engagement over time. in the past year it has gotten more and more intense. in the pakistani military has really been taken at them. over the course of the past few months, the pakistani taliban has said enough is enough. we're going after your people, too. so they killed so many children. >> what do you make of all this? as you know, this war against these taliban fighter or terrorists, this tribal area, it has been going on for a long time. is any real progress being made by the u.s. and the pakistani government? >> if you look at that area, it is the federally administered tribal areas. it is very lawless there. that's the place where afghan taliban would go back and forth across the border while both u.s. and nato forces in the north eastern corner of afghanistan were fighting them. it is a tough area. it is the old west as we like to say. so in that area, yes, i think the pakistani government has had some successes. but there is still a long way to go. and i think that this is a last-ditch effort by the pakistan taliban to make some additional enemies. >> what does it say to you that the afghanistan taliban, they even condemned this attack on this school, killing all these school children, saying these were innocent people. what does that say to you? >> it tells you the afghan taliban haven't supported attacks in pakistan them believe the focus should be in afghanistan against u.s. and nato troops, against afghan government troops over there. there has been widespread shock and revulsion in pakistan because of this attack and i think this will lead to greater public support for the military operations in north waziristan and strengthen the military resolve to go after them. after all, a lot of their kids have been killed in this attack. >> as you know, there is a clandestine operation. these drone strikes, everybody knows about it even though it is supposed to be secret. the obama administration authorizing these drone strikes, going after these taliban terrorists in pakistan. i suspect they will continue perhaps even escalate right now. what do you think? >> i would be cautious about this. let's think about mission creep. when we got in there, when we were targeting al qaeda with various weapons, when we got in, we were looking at a relatively small group. that is al qaeda. that was embedded in the large taliban organization. over time we moved across the border in pakistan as al qaeda did. and some of those operations extended to include pakistani groups that were harboring al qaeda. now as we plan on leaving afghanistan, you notice the question you're asking. we're talking as we depart about starting to target groups involved in a civil war with the pakistani military. i agree, we might see strikes against some of these guys. if i were in the situation room at the white house, before we get too deep into that, let's ask ourselves what we're up to 14 years into this. >> what do you think, general? >> i agree completely with phil. i think we've got some challenges there. this is something that the pakistani military is taking care of right now. it is a tough fight on their behalf. i think we've still got a lot of work left to do in afghanistan. and luckily, we're going to have increased number. forces there. like i said before, that area, the northeastern part of afghanistan was some of the places, tora bora comes to mind right across the bored he. that's where the khyber pass goes into. i think we have to be concerned with contributing to the stability and security of the afghan government, not worried about pakistan. they can take care of it themselves. >> thank you very much. appreciate it very much. just ahead, other important news we're following including new abuse allegations against the new york city police officer who put eric garner in a chokehold. now another man is telling his story to cnn. plus, details of the surprise move by jeb bush. the former florida governor, fueling lots of speculation about his political ambitions. you're driving along, having a perfectly nice day, when out of nowhere a pick-up truck slams into your brand new car. one second it wasn't there and the next second... boom! you've had your first accident. now you have to make your first claim. so you talk to your insurance company and... boom! you're blindsided for a second time. they won't give you enough money to replace your brand new car. don't those people know you're already shaken up? 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>> sad and angry and disbelief. >> reporter: tommy rice has a detailed memory of his own confrontation with the officer at the central of the chokehold case. march 22nd, 2012. rice was a taeng in a car pulled over in this staten island neighborhood. the police suspected rice, his brother-in-law and at least one other man of doing a drug transaction in the car. when he got out of the vehicle, rice says, the officer and other police humiliated him by strip searching him and his brother-in-law in the middle of the street in the middle of the day. >> he pulled up my boxers. he went up like an upward motion. i said you just hit me in my testicles. he told me to shut the f up and he does it on the right-hand side. boom. does it again. and then at that point he takes my shoes off. then he put me back in the van, put my pants back up and put me back in the van. >> how are you feeling at this point? >> i felt very violated as a man. >> reporter: the police according to tommy rice, were not finished on the street. he says the police took he and his brother-in-law here to the 120th precinct on staten island and strip searched them again, touching their genitals again. rice and his brother-in-law sued pant layo and the other officers claiming false arrest, unlawful search, fauls imprisonment. the officer denied the claims. the police union says the officer did nothing wrong and says his record is stellar. >> he is the model. >> they claim rice had heroin and crack cocaine in the car. rice denies it. charges against him and his brother-in-law were dismissed but rice can't deny his own criminal history including nine years of jail time for drug possession and drug charges. that day, march 22nd, 2012, i was not selling drugs that day. i take full responsibility for my past and i paid for my past. >> reporter: now rice wants the officer to answer for his past. >> i think he should never ever carry a badge, a gun, a night stick, a uniform ever again in his life. >> reporter: we tried to get a response to our interview with tommy rice from the officer through his attorney. we did not hear back. we also could not get response from the new york police department. but the top police union in new york calls the lawsuit baseless and frivolous. in the end, tommy rice and his brother saddled with the city of new york for $15,000 each. >> so they got $30,000 from new york city as part of a settlement of this case. i understand though, there is also a third case involving the same officer. he is right in the middle of other allegations. what can you tell us about that? >> reporter: yes, he is. this was a case filed this year by a man named rylon walk here accuses the officers of accosting him, false imprisonment on a marijuana possession charge in 2012. that charge was later dropped. walker said he was subject to a degrading search of his genitals in that case. the officer deny those claims as he was acting under his own authority. that case is still in the courts. >> thank you. brian todd in staten island. let's get some analysis. >> excessive use against this police officer. >> it sounds bad. it sounds like he was overly aggressive in what he should have been doing. if he is doing a strip search in the middle of a busy street and everybody can see, that would show a certain amount. there is a more discreet way to handle and it a more respectful way. >> what is your way, you're there in new york city. >> i interviewed the attorney for those men who were involved in that. and my reaction is it appears to be excessive, from the evidence and what i've read about it. it is not just, brian talked about this. mentioned it. that's not the only one he's accused of doing. there was one that was settled, one that's still pending. there are a number of excessive force cases that this officer has been involved in. so i think it is time to step back and look at this officer and see if he needs to be on the force. a man was gunned down at a walmart, gun down by police. it is pretty brutal when you see this video. and you've taken a closer look at it. >> i want to pre face it, a 22-year-old, his family is suing that walmart. they decided not to indict the officers. it is tough to look at. you look at someone carrying a gun in walmart, one would automatically say, you shouldn't be carrying a gun in walmart. it looked real. the gun was sold at walmart. he picked it up from a shelf. all you have to do is a google search of images and video and you will see people from all over the country carrying guns and assault rifles in walmart and to this day, i don't know of anyone else who has been gunned down by police for carrying a gun in walmart. >> you go to a walmart. you pick up a gun and you're shot. >> it's hard to know exactly. if you have somebody at the counter and maybe somebody is helping them and they're looking at them as if they're shopping and considering buying it, that's one thing. if you have somebody strolling around the store or doing something else and you have a different police officer who may panic and may pull the trigger a little too quickly. it is a difficult thing. and i faced that myself. you have these guns that are toys or pellet guns that looked exactly like the real thing. it is tough to deal with. police officers have to deal with enough real guns, much less throw all of these into the mix. >> there's another video i want to show you. this is the case of an elderly texas man. he was tasered after being stopped for a vehicle inspection issue. what do you make of this? >> well, i don't know the specifics but what does this 70-year-old guy, he didn't appear to be fighting a police officer. and what is he going to do? and it is for, the whole issue is that we have been dealing with, not that someone shouldn't be pulled over or stopped by police or questioned by police. that's not it. it is the am of force used to the infraction that you suspect them of doing. if you have, if your car isn't registered, you have a taillight out. does it deserve all of that? i think most people, most honest people, even police officers, if you take look at it. they would say, no you don't deserve it. we're talking about the use of force. not that police don't have the power to do it but should they do it. it appears to be success. >> i think most are told, look, don't make these useless, worthless charges and pull people over. whether it is seatbelts or something like that. if it goes bad, it goes back to the original reason for the stop was no good in the first place. so if somebody is violating traffic lights, hazard, speeding, reckless driving, going through a stop sign, that's one thing. if there is an accident. if you want to add that extra ticket, that's one thing. but this is what happens. you make a stop like this. the person thinks, what are you doing? it turns out in this case wasn't even a violation in the first place. it was a mistake to even make that traffic stop. it goes bad. it makes the officer look stupid. >> very quickly, are police more confrontational now than they used to be? or are we paying more attention? >> i don't know. hard to tell. maybe paying more attention. in some ways the public is more hostile lately that they want to fight back. >> we have more gunls out there. and i'm sure officers are afraid of that. >> right. you have 300 million guns floating around and officers are kernel about that. that's true. >> thanks very much. don will have a lot more on these stories and all the other important stories of the day. that's coming up later tonight. 10:00 p.m. eastern. he also has by the by the way, a very special town hall. just ahead, jeb bush and a political surprise. a huge one. he is now one stem closer to running for president of the united states. a surprise announcement that caught people off guard after months of speculation about his possible presidential allegations. jeb bush will run for president. and i was surprised when i heard about it this morning. but a lot of people were. >> a lot of people were surprised by this. but it has turned ugly fairly quickly. about a month ago i was covering the book from bush and we talked about whether or not he ran. and he said the family wasn't going to put pressure on him to do that. but today in a surprise facebook, he opened the door. >> a bush showdown has the political world spinning. after former two-term governor jeb bush posted this. i have decided to actively explore the possibility of running for president of the united states. criticism from his own party was swift. particularly from conservatives who see him as too moderate on immigration reform and education. this tweet from a political commentator. another bush versus another clinton, political vomit. and this call from the conservative action fund, on the a hill a more measured and nuance response, from potential opponent rand paul who told cnn off camera, the more the merrier. but a bush run would shake up the potentially crowded field. >> this is bad news for three candidates. one, chris christie, he was the other big-name candidate. two, marco rubio. senator from florida who is close to jeb and now unlikely to run for president and three, to the extent he was running, mitt romney. >> and if mitt romney doesn't jump in the primary, jeb bush becomes the number one push for republicans. he is popular and brings in big donors and speaks fluently spanish and was governor of florida. the narrative is rich. in 1992, president george h.w. bush was smacked down by clinton. robbing him of another term. could his son avenge him by taking on littleary. it was a year ago when barbara bush said this about a presidential run. >> we've had enough bushes. >> she's since come around. knowing that he has grassroots support and a lack of experience in the new political world. but the 61-year-old had a little push back for his mom. i don't have to listen to every word she says and at some point you have to make these decisions like a grown up. >> and some grown up steps like reportedly losing nearly 20 pounds, forming a pac, releasing 250,000 e-mails and writing an e-book. he is trying to differentiate himself from possible republican contender chris christie weighed down by bridge-gate to appear more transparent. with the e-book he is trying to appear more modern than hillary clinton but it has already turned ugly. >> it has. suzanne malveaux. thank you very much. and joining us, gloria borger and jeffrey toobin and anna navarro. gloria, the timing therefois surprising. they will not have problem fundraising but why make the announcement so early? >> because he is saying to the funders, don't go to anybody else. but setting up a leadership pac, it is a strong signal, wolf, that he will run. and he causes problems by doing this for chris christie, for marco rubio and maybe even for mitt romney because some of the funders who might have gone to them will now say wait a minute, we have jeb bush in the race so maybe we'll start moving toward jeb. so what i think this does is it kind of forces the other candidates to make their decisions a bit earlier than they had initially anticipated. >> so you agree, it sort of jump starts them into the game and the other candidates on the republican and candidate side a little bit earlier? >> it does. some of them already have leadership pacs, wolf. so for example like rand paul, he's already doing this. but there are others like chris christie who are going to have to decide that they might have to get in the became a bit earlier. >> ana, he is going to be facing attacks especially from the right, during the primary contest he suggested in the past, as you know, he's willing to lose some primaries to win a general presidential election. so what does that exactly mean for jeb bush? >> well, i think what he's talking about is that he's not going to be willing to bend his principles and turn himself into a pritzel to win a primary. but you know, wolf, this notion that he is not conservative and will have a hard time in the primary i think is premature. one of the things a leadership pac will allow him to do is to travel the country and be able to tout his record. anybody who remembers and knows him as governor of florida, knows that he a very solid, conservative record when it came to fiscal reform, when it came to education reform, when it came to social issues. so this idea he is not conservative enough is frankly laughable to any of us in florida. >> but he has gone against the republican grain when it comes to immigration, when it comes to some of the more nationally inspired tests for education, which a lot of the conservative base doesn't necessarily like. >> he's advocating for higher standards on education and on immigration he wants to modernize and streamline what is an archaic process and he wants to do it in a pragmatic way. if there are single issue voters who won't vote for him that want to round them all up, he won't get that caucus. but if you look at the experience and crisis management and policy and intellect and breath of knowledge that jeb bush brings to the table. he brings a lot to the table, much more than those two issues. he has a life long legacy to stand on. >> jeff, is his past a legacy or an asset? >> we'll find out. in the initial stages, it is an asset. he started at 100% name recognition which the other candidates do not. he certainly has the ability to raise money. everyone will take him seriously as a candidate. the problem is -- the irony is, his brother is now seen by the republican base as sort of too liberal. that he was the one who increased the deficit, who put in new spending programs and the rest of the country, the democrats and people in the middle, i think safely regard george w. bush as very conservative. so i think he's going to have a tight rope to walk. but, look, he's showing he is confident and wants to be seen as a leader and nothing but good for him to get started early. >> is his family, his mom, gloria, his dad, his brother, his wife, everybody on board? >> they all want him. yes, they are all on board, i think, as we all know, his mother was the most reluctant because she doesn't want to go through this again. it is very hard for a family member to see another family member criticized as any presidential candidate is. but i think they are all on board. and will be enthusiastic. the most interesting thing to me, wolf, is not the fact he is setting up this a leadership pac, what is interesting is the e-book he is releasing. and all presidential candidates write books because they want to set their narrative but the release of 250,000 e-mails from when he was governor -- yes, 250,000 from when he was governor, shows he is laying down the gauntlet about transparency. he is saying, i've got it all out there. you have private e-mail and corresponde correspondents, you have to let people know about it too and my e-mails will show i'm conservative and let's see what your e-mails deserve. >> ana, we have to leave it. >> frankly, he is sending the same message to hillary clinton. >> thank you, glorigloria, anna jeffrey. thank you very much. and we'll leave with this, an hour ago, the national minora was lit not far from the white house. tonight is the first night of hanukkah. joe biden, the vice president of the united states he was there representing the president. so a very lovely national menorah hanukkah lighting ceremony. to all of our juer viewers. happy hanukkah. and you can follow us on twitter at wolf blitzer or at cnn sit room. and you can watch us live or drv the show so you won't miss a moment. thanks very much for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. "outfront" next, terrorists murder school children and the gunman said to have enough ammunition to go on for days. could if happen here. and tonight a special investigation into the rolling stones story about a gang rape at the university of virginia. new details about the woman who made the horrific accusations. her spreads speak out. this is a story you must see to believe. and the sony hackers with a chilling message. remember september 11, 2001. they are threatening to

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