Outrageous and offensive. The scene in louisville is very tense. In the last few minutes it has escalated with large crowds of demonstrators filling the streets and facing off against Law Enforcement officials. Police using batons on the crowd, even appearing to push down some protesters. Theres reports of pepper balls. The city will go under a curfew at 9 00 a. M. This evening with the National Guard on standby. The grand jury did indict former detective Brett Hankison on three charges of wanton endangerment. That means he endangered people in other apartments when he fired ten shots. The other two officers who fired shots have not been charged. And the attorney general says his investigation found that their use of force was justified. A lot of disappointment among individuals who thought that there would be harsher penalties for the officers who killed Breonna Taylor, who had done nothing wrong. Whats going on where you are . Reporter okay. So, yeah, absolutely. Were seeing that anger expressed here. Weve been the crowd here has been marching for well over an hour, maybe an hour and a half here. And police this is the highland section of louisville, decided to cut them off. And as we approached about a block up from here, the police built a line, and they didnt allow the protesters to walk past it. And so there was a confrontation. And as you can see, jake, its still continuing with many of the people in the officers faces. And then the police moved in. They made several arrests. And as you said, i did see the officers firing those pepper balls at some of the protesters as they were trying to push them back. Some of the protesters weren throwing things at the police, Water Bottles. But for the most part, and this is important. They have been marching very peacefully. The confrontation, jake, didnt start until the police cut off the road here. We dont know why the police chose at that time to cut off the road. But you can see here in front of me there are people still milling about, and theyre trying to figure out if the police are going to let them continue past this way. But right now the police are not. They moved in aggressively. They pushed a lot of the protesters back. And as i said, made several arrests. But, again, this didnt start until the police decided to move in and close off this area preventing many of the protesters from continuing to march through the streets here, jake. Is there anything in particular that the police might be guarding . Are they guarding a Police Station . Was there some indication that the marchers were going somewhere to cause any sort of violence . I mean, why would they just stop them from marching . Reporter thats a great question, jake. And i dont know. Because we didnt know where they were marching from. I didnt know our team didnt know. We just kept walking. And i could see the protesters started saying everyone move to the front. They had seen the officers here lined up. But i dont know what it is thats ahead of us here that would cause the officers any kind of concern where they just decided, okay, it was time to stop the marchers from protesting. And it was peaceful. And you can see behind me here theres some of the arrests that they made here, some of the people here on the sidewalk. Theyre handcuffed. There are some signs that they were carrying. Those were here on the floor. And, again, as you can see, there is this officer here with this orange long gun. They were firing at the protesters as they were dispersing the crowd, as they were telling them to move back. Some of the officers were firing those pepper balls. I should note that the police chief said yesterday in a press conference that he would be the one to authorize if tear gas would be used. That if any of the officers decided to use tear gas, it would be up to him or his second in command. Were being pushed back here some more. But here as you can see, jake, they are trying to clear more people out. I dont know why. Curfew starts at 9 00. Just get somewhere safe. We dont want you being shot with any pepper balls either, and continue to monitor the situation for us. Really appreciate it. As we continue to monitor and watch whats going on in the streets of louisville, i want to bring in former federal prosecutor laura coates and major Neal Franklin who worked in the maryland and Baltimore Police departments. When youre looking at these protests, whats the protocol how . How should Law Enforcement officers be handling it . Well, first of all, listening to shimmone, i think he said that the protests were peaceful. So beginning with that, if the protests are peaceful, why are we taking any Police Action whatsoever . What we should be doing is assisting the protesters. What do you need, what do you need . Where are you going to walk, what do you need . Whos organizing the protest . Can we communicate with them . By helping the protesters and by supporting the protesters, first of all youre doing your job because youve taken an oath to protect the rights, constitutional rights, first amendment, freedom of speech. Youve taken an oath to protect the rights of the protesters. So all for your assistance to the protesters so that it can remain peaceful. But when you show opposition by interfering with the peaceful protests, youre kind of asking for it. Yeah. Deescalation seems to be something that we dont see enough of when it comes to these marches. Laura, lets talk about the decision by the grand jury and by the attorney general of kentucky. I have to say i find it a bit surprising that this officer has been indicted and charged with causing wanton disregard for other people by firing ten shots into the apartment. But not for any crime related to Breonna Taylor actually being killed. I mean, it is surprising and very hard to reconcile, isnt it, jake, the notion that you could prosecute somebody for acting with indifference and reckless regard for the prospective lives that could be lost but no officer charged for the actual life that was lost in Breonna Taylor. What we heard from the attorney general was the real litmus test here and the reason for it is because they could not conclude that that particular officer, the one that was charged with firing shots blindly and indiscriminately into a neighboring argument that held three other occupants, that there was no indication that a bullet from his gun was actually one that was shot into Breonna Taylor. They were not able to conclude which of the other remaining officers actually fired a fatal shot, one of six, into Breonna Taylor. But they also noted this very important thing that the a. G. Kept harping on. And that was the notion that they believe it didnt really matter which of those two officers fired because they were justified, he believed, in using lethal force because they had first been shot upon. So that was essentially the criteria they used to go forward. But it boggles the mind and frankly the soul to think that were in the biz of prosecuting the loss of a prospective life but we ignore the loss of a life actually taken. It wasnt that it was Breonna Taylor who even fired the shot. She was in somebody who was the apartment. It was her boyfriend Kenneth Walker who believed that they were going to be victimized by a home invasion. The fact that her life was lost, it feels as though it was collateral damage. And the idea of collateral damage, not evoking a visceral reaction, talk about justice, its so hurtful to think about. But thats what it largely came down to and a disregard for what happened to her. Neal, they say that a prosecutor can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. And, yet, this prosecutor did not get a grand jury to indict the officer for anything having to do with the death of Breonna Taylor. Does it surprise you . Is this what you expected . It doesnt surprise me. We see Different Things all across the country coming from prosecutors. And youre right. If a prosecutor really wants to get an indictment, especially for a case like this, they can do it. I heard just a few seconds ago that they couldnt determine who actually fired the fatal shot for ms. Taylor. And i find that hard to believe, unless the rounds were so disfigured that they couldnt get ballistics on it. And i really find that difficult to believe, especially all the guns that a typical police department, especially in louisville, theyve already done ballistics on the actual guns that we carry, the firearms that we the police carry. They do that typically before theyre even assigned to you. So, if you can recover the round, if its in any fair condition, you can get ballistics off of it. But, youre right, i just have to say something, jake. Walking back beginning with the raid, this was so wrong from beginning to end. And this is one of the reasons why chief andy mills in santa cruz has booked for a policy that no noknock warrant is going to be approved without his signature on it. Judges need to be looking at these warrants very closely. But then, again, the foundation of these botched raids that were seeing all across this country, a little less than 50,000 a year, is the failed war on drugs that were not properly dealing with in this country. Militarization or what were seeing now with protests, its all because of this failed, unaddressed faulty piece of Public Policy the war on drugs. The attorney general is starting up a task force to review the process for securing and executing search warrants in kentucky. The attorney general of kentucky, i should say. So it appears that hes acknowledging at least to a degree that something may have gone wrong. But based on the charges, no one is actually being held accountable for the death of Breonna Taylor. Thats correct. And the task force looks at how they can take actions prospectively, not necessarily retroactively, which of course does nothing for the family of Breonna Taylor or Kenneth Walker or the three occupants of the adjacent apartment. But it also is notable that none of the three officers i believe who actually executed the warrant were those that drafted the warrant. What theyre looking for most notably, there is this theory going around that perhaps they already had the intended suspect who was a part of whatever drug ring they thought was a part of this case. They already had that suspect either in custody or knew about his whereabouts. And then at some later time, there is a discussion of whether the warrant at the time of execution was somehow changed or altered to reflect that they happened simultaneously. And so theres a question now about not only the drafting and application for a warrant but whether there was anything or any shenanigans going on that would undermine the publics confidence in the way in which it was carried out or later addressed. If thats part of the issues with civil settlement with the family to address how they could move forward and try to prevent these tragedies from Going Forward and hurting anyone else. Neal, the aclu said todays charging decision is the manifestation of what the millions of people who have taken to the streets to protest Police Violence already know. Modern policing in our criminal legal system are rotten to the core, unquote. Now, you are a former police officer. Whats your reaction to that . Do you agree that modern policing and Law Enforcement is rotten to the core . You have to understand something about the history of policing, especially when it comes to black and brown people in this country. When you look at the history of policing in this country and where it was born, from what it was borne out of, which is slave patrols in the south and protection of property in the north. The model of policing in this country has never ever been for the benefit of black and brown people in this country. We need a new model. We need a new paradigm. And this is no slight against the men and women who work hard every day. And im talking about those Police Officers who really signed up to do good work in their communities. And, believe me, we have our problem eggs. What im talking about is a system that has never been right in this country for the benefit of not just black and brown people but poor people as well. So, we got to figure this out, and there are a number of Police Chiefs and sheriffs across this country that are looking forward to creating a new policing paradigm, a new model of policing in this country. And we should never ever consider doing such a thing without the input of the community, the people that we are serving. Were supposed to be one in and of the same. So the people have to dictate what that new model of policing is going to look like and how were going to serve them Going Forward. Laura, im being told that actually its an officer cosgrove that was determined to have fired the fatal shot. The correction to be made, and i want to clarify that. The attorney general did not say that he was not aware of which of the officers were firing on Breonna Taylor. The question was because only one of the shots was actually fatal, one of the six contributed immediately to their death, they said. They werent able to determine which of those particular as opposed to the other officer, but in and of itself, it was irrelevant to the overall inquiry, the most disturbing aspect of it. Because they found the officers justified in using lethal force, ultimately did not matter to them legally speaking who delivered the fatal shot. Because they were justified in the use of force anyway. And so thats why it did not lead to a prosecution, they say. But they are able to determine which particular bullet. But in the idea of whether it was repeat legally to a prosecution, it was i heard an interview with congresswoman val demings she said that she does not support defunding the police because the minority communities are the ones who depend upon police more than any other community and that diverting funds from police would end up hurting minority communities, black and brown people. This is obviously a black woman, a former police officer, police chief, member of congress. How does that square with what you said . So, its not just that simple. Were not just talking about taking money away from the police and doing nothing with it, is what defunding the police sounds like. What were talking about is divesting to invest. Divestment, investment. Investing in those services, those needed Services Within our neighborhoods and communities, mental health, nutrition, education, housing, dealing with our homeless population, and all those things that contribute to crime. If we want to solve crime long term improving Public Safety for the long term in this country, weve got to start shifting resources from Public Safety from corrections, from policing, to those things within our community that i just talked about that work for improving the economic conditions, improving the health, the environmental health. And so on within those communities. Thats what were talking about here. Major Neal Franklin and laura coates, stick around. Im going to come right back to you. And were going to continue to cover whats going on in louisville. But i want to also note that coming up from the wife of the republican president ial nominee to endorsing joe biden for president , what a difference a decade makes, cindy mccain will join us live to talk about her decision. Plus, were continuing to follow the breaking news. Tense protests in louisville. Were going to squeeze in a quick break. Stay with us. Get ready our most popular battery is now even more powerful. The stronger, lastslonger energizer max. The stronger, lastslonger keeping your oysters growing while keeping your business growing has you swamped. you need to hire i need indeed indeed you do. The moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from a resume data base so you can start hiring right away. Claim your seventyfivedollar credit when you post your first job at indeed. Com promo my job is to help new homeowners who have turned into their parents. Im having a big lunch and then just a snack for dinner. So were using a speakerphone in the store. Is that a good idea . One of the ways i do that is to get them out of the home. Youre looking for a grout brush, this is garth, did he ask for your help . No, no. No. We all see it. We all see it. He has blue hair. Okay. Blue. Progressive cant protect you from becoming your parents, but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. Keep it coming. You dont know him. I try so hard, i cant rise above it dont know what it is get a dozen double crunch shrimp for one dollar with any steak entree. Only at applebees. Heres to the duers. To all the people who realize they can du more with less asthma thanks to dupixent, the addon treatment for specific types of moderatetosevere asthma. Dupixent isnt for sudden breathing problems. It can improve lung function for better breathing in as little as 2 weeks and help prevent severe asthma attacks. Its not a steroid but can help reduce or eliminate oral steroids. Dupixent can cause serious allergic reactions including anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have rash, shortness of breath, chest pain, tingling or numbness in your limbs. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection and dont change or stop your asthma treatments, including steroids, without talking to your doctor. Are you ready to du more with less asthma . Talk to your asthma specialist about dupixent. If your financial situation has changed, we may be able to help. If your financial situation has changed, i will send out an army to find you in the middle of the darkest night its true, i will rescue you oh, i will rescue you we are following breaking news. There is a chaotic scene unfolding in louisville, kentucky, where protesters are facing off with police after the announcement of some charges in the Breonna Taylor case for wanton endangerment. But not for manslaughter or murder of Breonna Taylor. Were going to have much more of that breaking news in just minutes. But i want to turn now to an unprecedented endorsement for democratic president ial nominee joe biden. Cindy mccain, widow of the late senator john mccain is now backing biden. This comes after her husband was running for president 12 years ago. Thanks so much for joining us. I appreciate it. I have to say ive known you for 21 years. Ive covered you and your family over a long time, yeah. Two john mccain president ial campaigns. In 1999 if someone had told me that you would be endorsing a democratic president ial candidate, i would not have believed them. [ laughter ] i certainly understand that. I wouldnt have believed it. Im just glad to be a part of this campaign and glad to be, you know, obviously listening and able to be helpful within this issue of electing joe biden. But let me say, if i may, first. I pray for the community of louisville right now. This is a perfect example of why its so necessary to listen to our communities, listen to people of color, of different people that are different, people that are the same. We have got to we have to sit down now and really try to mend this. And joe bidens the one person that can do that. In announcing the endorsement of biden, you wrote, quote, theres only one candidate in this race who stands up for our values as a nation, and that is joe biden. What values are you talking about . Because obviously youre a longtime republican. I know you disagree with joe biden on a number of things. What values does he stand up for that you support . Well, integrity, character, courage, empathy. You know, things that make a person a good president. Its been for me its been very tragic to watch the year 2020 unfold for the obvious reasons. But also for the ones that arent so obvious. And joe is the one person that, as you know, worked across the aisle with my husband on numerous issues. And did it civilly. There was no discourse or no hatred spewed. He did it civilly and he did it with the respect of the people involved and of course respect for our country. Joe is the one person. Ive known him for 40 years. I know he is the one that can do it and will do it. One of the things that you talk about in endorsing biden is you both have had sons who served in the military. Your sons jack and jimmy serve. None of the president s children have served, and then of course theres that story in the atlantic where the president is said to have referred to those who have served as suckers. Whats your take on that . Did that factor into your decision . Well, it didnt help it. For obvious reasons, i do not believe that the young men and women who gave the ultimate sacrifice are losers and suckers. And i do not believe my sons in all of the other sons and daughters around the country are losers and suckers. I happen to respect them and want to make sure that theyre safe and secure. So it did i did resent that a little bit. But thats why we need joe because joe has walked the shoes of this. Hes a blue star parent like i am. He understands the military, and he understands the young men and women and the families, more importantly, that are sacrificing. President trump is about to make another nomination to the Supreme Court. I have to say i think that if your husband were still alive, and i wish he were, he wanting voting for, supporting the nominee. He appoints conservative judges and justices and they further the agenda, i believe, and thats enough for me. Well, the people im hoping to reach out to are certainly everywhere across the board. But particularly women. And i know many, many women are on the fence about they are not comfortable with everything thats going on right now, but they also are not sure they want to support Vice President biden. I hope that they will follow me and listen to me and know that stepping outside your comfort zone might be the right thing to do in this race. And so im hoping that i can lead people, you know, to help with a victory for joe biden in november. You said youre staying a republican, youre not changing your registration. Are you concerned that the Trump Presidency will do longlasting damage to the Republican Party . Well, i think there has been damage done, but i believe in the great spirit of the United States of america. And i think those things can be mended and healed. What has been missing here is this divisive attitude towards right and wrong on capitol hill. In many cases, nobodys right or wrong. Its just a matter of opinion. And working together civilly is the only way we can handle this. I remember john as a young congressman working across the aisle with tip oneill. And they didnt agree on much of anything at all, but the two of them remained friends because they respected each other and believed they were doing it for the good of the country. And thats the same with joe biden. You have a Big Senate Race in arizona between republican senator martha mcsally. She was appointed to fill your husbands seat, and former astronaut and husband of Gabby Giffords mark kelly. Are you going to vote for mark kelly . Im not going to talk about that right now. Im here to talk about joe biden. I wish both candidates well in this race. I know its a tense time. But im here to give you the reasons why i believe joe biden is the person that we should support and believe in for the next four years. Last question for you, cindy, because i know you have to go. In my last interview with your husband for whom you know i had great regard, i asked him how he wanted to be remembered. Take a listen. How do you want the American People to remember you . He served his country, and not always right, made a lot of mistakes, made a lot of errors but served this country. And i hope we could add honorably. I think that we can say honorably. Its tough to hear. Do you see your speaking out as fulfilling and upholding your husbands legacy of serving your country regardless of party . Well, its certainly his legacy, but more importantly, its the legacy of this country. We have, for years and years and years, have been able to Work Across Party Lines and do what was right for the country. And thats what were seeing not happening right now. Joe and john, as i mentioned, would fight like cats and dogs sometimes on the floor. But they remained friends forever. Its not a republican issue, its not a democratic issue. Its an american issue. And thats why im here and thats what i believe john, you know, felt and believed about joe. Cindy mccain, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate it. Thank you. Were following a tense situation in kentucky where police and protesters are facing off after todays grand jury decision in the Breonna Taylor case. Were going to go live to louisville next. Stay with us. Send it off, with a bang live the life you want to have [whistling] but today theres a combination of two immunotherapies you can take first. One that could mean. A chance to live longer. Opdivo plus yervoy is for adults newly diagnosed with nonsmall cell lung cancer that has spread and that tests positive for pdl1 and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. Its the first and only approved chemofree combination of two immunotherapies that works together in different ways to harness the power of the immune system. Opdivo plus yervoy equals a chance for more days. More nights. More beautiful weekends. 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A chance to live longer. Ask your doctor about opdivo plus yervoy. Thank you to all involved in our clinical trials. Ask your doctor about opdivo its totally not the same without you. We miss your lets do this look, the sound of your laugh cry screams, and how you make every day here the best day ever. We cant wait to get you back so weve added temp checks, face coverings, social distancing and extra sanitizing to get the good times going again. Were finally back. And cant wait until you are too. Buy now and get two days free at the parks. Restrictions apply. More dangerous and corrupt president than trump. Hes harming our basic values, giving rise to hate, and hes selling out america to big corporations. Im working to protect immigrants, women, communities of color, and lgbtq people. And im making corporations like pg e and Insurance Companies play by our rules. We need experienced leadership to wipe away trumps stain on america for good. Breaking news right now in louisville, kentucky. A heated scene between protesters and Law Enforcement, off and on, in the last few minutes we have seen protesters taken into custody by police. Demonstrators reacting to todays grand jury, and Kentucky Attorney general decision in the Breonna Taylor case. Only one officer was charged. And that was for wanton endangerment, not for manslaughter or murder as Breonna Taylors family wanted. Cnns Shimon Prokupecz is on the ground in louisville. Shimon, update us on whats happening there. Have things calmed down a little . Reporter yeah. Theyve calmed down significantly, jake. As you can see, there are just officers standing behind me in full riot gear. Theyve pushed us further off the corner. We were down in the middle of the block, and now theyve pushed most of us over to this area. Things are much quieter certainly than they were just a few minutes ago. If you can see, i dont know if you can see we were blocked by this car here, but police were making several arrests. They were trying to load several of the people of the protesters that they arrested into a van there. And now people have just been standing around. Police were able to move most of the protesters away. Some went up some of the side streets here. But we still dont know why police decided to move in on the protesters here. Weve been reporting following them along for well over an hour. And we dont know why police decided to block off the area here and to prevent them from walking and marching further. And that is when the confrontation ensued, police then made several arrests. Some of the protesters were throwing Water Bottles at the officers and some of the officers were firing those pepper balls to try and disperse the crowd. But we dont know what happened entirely in front of here, why Police Ultimately decided to stop them from marching. And as i said, several people now have been arrested. And we are waiting to hear more from the police here. All right, Shimon Prokupecz on the streets of louisville, kentucky, we will continue to bring you scenes from there as they develop. Lets bring in right now retired Los Angeles Police Department Sergeant cheryl dorsey. Sergeant dorsey, thanks for joining us. When you look at the clashes that weve seen between police and protesters, is there a way for police to handle what seemed or at least shimon was describing, an almost entirely peaceful protest until the police came in and blocked it without making it even more tense. In other words, is it normal just to stop protesters from walking or not . Certainly theres a way for officers to handle protesters without being confrontational. Police officers are taught to use only that force necessary to overcome resistance and or gain compliance. And so understand that there is a segment of Police Officers out there who live for protests. They want to engage. They want to get involved in what ive heard referred to on l. A. P. D. As stick time because theres no use of force you have to create in order to engage a protester. There are those who live for that on both sides. There are antagonists on both sides. What was your response to what we heard from the attorney general of kentucky today and the grand jury in terms of the Breonna Taylor case . Well, im not surprised, im a realist. I deciphered all of his double speak. This is a nonindictment. It has nothing to do with Breonna Taylor. This was about officer Brett Hankison firing rounds into the next door neighbors apartment. It had nothing to do with the murder of Breonna Taylor. Those officers, according to the attorney general, were justified in that use of force. Now, i dont know how 16 shots fired by one is justified use of force when officers are taught to fire two shots in rapid succession and then reassess the threat. But, nonetheless, that was his sto story. Because he too says hes a black man and somehow celebrities cant speak for kentuckians but as a black man he can speak for us. So i understand hes skinfolk, kinfolk. He doesnt speak for me. How do you begin to repair relations between communities and their police force when there is so much anger and so much distrust . You have to first be honest and i havent heard any of that, even with this 12 million settlement in the case of Breonna Taylor. There are all these fold reforms. The City Council Must approve much of this. And then lets not forget that there is no admission of wrongdoing. If he didnt do anything wrong, i dont even know why hankison was fired in the first place. They came up with this no knock warrant. You need a supervisor to sign off on it. So everything they pretend to put forward doesnt affect me. It wont stop and we know that because we saw Derek Chauvin sit and have him watch us for eight minutes and 46 seconds and dared us to do anything about it. Do you think the other two officers shouldve been charged . Well, absolutely. They were there. And one of them was a sergeant. So i hold that sergeant to a higher standard. But weve got the attorney general saying that it was justified. Now, they are giving their truth. I dont know that its the truth. They are saying that breonna, her boyfriend, fired the first shot. I dont know that thats true. We know that theyll lie. They have. They said that they rendered aid. They said that there were no cameras. They said that they announced and theres been evidence contrary to all of that. Now were stuck with their version of defense. Thats what happens when the police kill us. Theres only one version to tell, and thats the one they put forth. Im not buying it. The attorney general of kentucky is starting up this task force to review the process for securing and executing search warrants in kentucky. That appears some sort of tassid acknowledgment that something went wrong in addition to the 12 million payment to the family of Breonna Taylor and the firing of officer hankison. But based on the charges, no one is actually being held responsible for her death. Absolutely. I mean, hankison is being indicted because he fired rounds with wanton disregard into a neighbors apartment. No mention of Breonna Taylor. So he gets no brownie points for looking at things that shouldve already been in place. Then when they violate their own policies and procedures they will tell us thats not what you saw, thats not what we did, carry on. The governor of kentucky wants the attorney general to make all of the evidence in the case public. Governor andy beshear says they should know the facts. Do you think that will be enough to calm those who are angry over the lack of charges for Breonna Taylors death releasing the evidence . I mean, listen, release the evidence if you want to or not. What families want, what everyone seems to be most upset about is a failure to hold Police Officers accountable when they do things that are contradictory to training and or loss. So, make it available or not. But hold the officers accountable. And we know that that wont be happening in this case because weve already heard from the a. G. That in his mind 16 shots through a closed door or an open door that they just entered is somehow justified. Its offensive. Thank you so much for your time today. We appreciate it. More breaking news up next. Six in ten americans are not likely to get what they want when it comes to efforts to fill Ruth Bader Ginsburgs seat on the Supreme Court. Plus, what senator rand paul said about coronavirus that dr. Anthony fauci could not let go uncorrected. Go uncorrected. S alzheimers. I decided to make shirts for the walk with custom ink. The shirts were so easy to design on the site. The custom ink team was super helpful and they just came out perfect. Seeing my family wearing my shirts was such an amazing reminder of all the love and support that everyone has for my dad. [narrator] check out our huge selection of custom tshirts and more, for teams, businesses, and every occasion. Youll even get free shipping. Get started today at customink. Com. This is the feeling of total protection now that we protect your identity, mobile phone, auto, home and life youve never been in better hands allstate click or call for a quote today youve never been that includes temperature scan, and sanitizing everythingfe. And all of our staff wearing gloves and masks. Not that mask. This mask. Thats the visionworks difference. Visionworks. See the difference. We also have some breaking news for you right now in our politics lead. Brand new cnn polls, its all about who the American People think should pick the next Supreme Court justice. Most americans, 59 , say that the president who was elected in november should nominate the replacement for the late ruth bader ginsburg. Thats compared to 41 who say President Trump should make the appointment now. 97 of democrats say the newly elected president should make the decision compared to 59 of independents and all the way down to 17 of republicans. In march 2016, which was obviously much earlier in that election year, the public felt the opposite, 57 of americans said Obama Shouldve been the one to fill the vacancy after the death of antonin scalia. Now, onto the health lead. The countrys leading Health Experts under choir today during a hearing of the handling of the pandemic that has left already more than 200,000 americans dead. Senators questioning the cdc director over trust issues in his agency, challenging the fda chief on safety concerns surrounding an eventual vaccine. And at one point the nations top Infectious Disease expert, dr. Anthony fauci, in a passionate defense shut down what he described as wrong conclusions being drawn by republican senator rand paul. No, you misconstrued that, senator, and youve done that repetitively in the past. This as sources tell cnn that dr. Deborah birx might be on her way out as coordinator of the White House Coronavirus task force because shes, quote, distressed over the direction of the task force. Cnns nick watt now reports. Reporter new york once the worlds hot spot, today the most heated topic during covid19 response hearings on capitol hill. How can we possibly be jumping up and down and saying, oh, Governor Cuomo did a great job . He had the worst death rate in the world. No. You misconstrued that, senator. And youve done that repetitively in the past. They got hit very badly. Theyve made some mistakes. Reporter dr. Anthony fauci bit back at kentucky senator rand paul. Theyre no longer having the pandemic because they have enough immunity in new york city to actually stop it. I challenge that, senator. Please, sir, i would like to be able to do this because this happens with senator rand all the time. You are not listening to what the director of the cdc said that in new york, its about 22 . If you believe 22 is herd immunity, i believe youre alone in that. Reporter this pandemic now so politicized, the fda commissioner also felt he had to say this. Decisions to authorize or approve any such vaccine or therapeutic will be made by the through our thorough review processes and science will guide our decisions. Fda will not permit any pressure from anyone to change that. What stood out to me is that so many of the questions were about trust. And this is a position that i could not have imagined that we would be in several months ago. Reporter today, Johnson Johnson begins global phase three trials of its potential vaccine. The company says it could be ready for fda review early next year. And this is key. The Johnson Johnson vaccine, unlike the others currently in phase three trials in the u. S. , is a single dose. So easier, quicker, to deploy. In the end, fda will not authorize or approve a vaccine that we would not feel comfortable giving to our families. Reporter meantime, nationally, we seem stuck at around 40,000 new confirmed cases a day. Two weeks ago, just nine states were seeing average new case counts rise. Today, that number is 22. In kentucky, that average daily case count tripled since midsummer. A 36yearold nurse named cassie among the recently infected. I want to be upset, i want to be angry. I want my daughter healthy. Reporter nationally, death rates were falling, but that decline in death that we were seeing in late august is no longer being sustained. Reporter we just passed 200,000 dead in america. Could be over 300,000 by years end. Now, one of the big still Unanswered Questions is how safe or dangerous are airplanes . Well, the cdc says they have now identified 1,600 flights between january and august that had an infected person on board. And using a kind of sixfoot radius rule, theyve calculated that nearly 11,000 people were potentially exposed. But the data on how many people have actually caught covid19 on an airplane is patchy, and therefore inconclusive. So the bottom line is we still do not know how safe or dangerous airplane travel is right now. Jake . All right, nick watt in california, thank you so much. Lets bring in cnns chief medical correspondent, dr. Sanjay gupta. Sanjay, lets delve deeper into an issue here that was part of the exchange between dr. Fauci and senator paul. Lets play a brief part of that clip. Theyre no longer having the pandemic because they have enough immunity in new york city to actually stop it. I challenge that, senator. Im afraid please, sir, i would like to be able to do this because this happens with senator rand all the time. You are not listening to what the director of the cdc said that in new york, its about 22 . If you believe 22 is herd immunity, i believe youre alone in that. Beyond dr. Faucis frustration with rand paul, who says things that are at odds with science all the time, whats your reaction to this herd immunity argument that some conservatives are making . Yeah. I mean, there is no herd immunity. To get to herd immunity, and theres ways of calculating this, jake, if you have a contagious virus, something that spreads from one person or in this case two or three people, you can calculate that you need to get to around 60 to 70 . Twothirds of the country would need to have antibodies to get to herd immunity. The fact that rand paul is saying 22 after he just heard that that was the number in new york, could be enough, it doesnt make any sense. It flies in the face of the science. And, again, these are objective things you can actually calculate. Dr. Fauci is very frustrated. Rand paul is a doctor, these are things that we do learn to sort of how you calculate these things. I think that was part of his frustration. But also this idea that this is not a strategy to let the natural infection run through a society with 10 of the country roughly thats been infected right now. Weve already had 200,000 dead. If you just let that equation play out, thatll turn into 2 million potentially or between 1. 5 to 2 million dead. I think that thats really what the frustration was about. We should point out dr. Rand paul is an eye doctor. Hes not an Infectious Disease expert. Senator chris murphy asked the cdc about testing guidance that a lot of people think would decrease the number of tests out there. Lets play some of that exchange. There was no intent in this guidance to decrease testing on the contrary, the intent was to link testing and to drive a Public Health action. And, again, the manner in which it was interpreted by a number of individuals was such that it didnt accomplish that goal. I think im over my time. This has just been dizzying for Public Health professionals. Theyre just awaiting the next correction. So, was the issue here that the guidance was misinterpreted . Or was the guidance really going to decrease testing . I dont think it was misinterpreted, jake. I think it wouldve led to a decrease in testing. Whether or not that was the motivation, i dont know. I think it was more about this sort of general sort of approach to sort of minimizing things. It wouldve led to decrease in testing, maybe had fewer numbers. Who knows. I read the guidance very carefully before, after the guidance was put up, and then again when it was reversed. It was very clear i think to me and to many people, frankly, that when they put that guidance up basically saying that even if youve been in contact with someone who has covid, if you dont have any symptoms you dont need to get tested. Thats flatout wrong because we know that people could contract the virus. They could have no symptoms and they could spread it. So, yes, it wouldve led to a decrease in testing but it wouldve been a huge problem because the trajectory of the pandemic would be continuing to go up unchecked. Same problem we had back in february and part of march, jake. This was in error. What the motivation was unclear. As you know, the New York Times reporting was that it was put on the cdcs website without having gone through the scientific checks. I find myself in a position here where i seem to be expressing more concern for the president s supporters and their health than the president does. But i want you to take a look at these images last night from the president s rally in the pittsburg area packed with supporters. No social distancing, very few masks. We are in the middle of a deadly pandemic, and the u. S. Is handling it empirically worse than any other western wealthy nation. The Surgeon General was asked about this rally. Take a listen to his answer. And at the end of the day the virus doesnt care about your politics. It doesnt care what youre going out for. It only cares whether or not youre following Public Health measures. So what i would say to everyone, politics aside, wear a mask. How dangerous is it . I understand that these rallies are outdoors, but there are still no other Health Precautions being taken, that i can see. Yeah. Jake, at this point i dont think it takes any more sort of educating of people around this. Theres a contagious virus out there. It likes to jump from host to host. If you are closely clustered with somebody, if youre there for a prolonged period of time, theres a good chance that virus is going to make a jump. It is safer being outdoors, and significantly so. Some models suggest that it may be up to 18 times safer, just to put a number on it. It obviously varies depending on how closely clustered as you saw there and how long people are standing next to each other. Its a terrible idea. These are the sort of images that we will look back on historically and say in the middle of a pandemic when you see the numbers on the right side of the screen that we see, people still thought this was a reasonable thing to do. Its not. And as i think the Surgeon General who i communicate with was sort of suggesting that this isnt about educating people anymore at all. This is pure politics. But they wont call out the president by name because they want to keep their jobs. But he is putting his own supporters and their communities at risk. Dr. Sanjay gupta, thank you so much. You can follow me on facebook, instagram, twitter jaketapper. You can tweet the show. Our coverage on cnn continues right now. Ill see you tomorrow. This is cnn breaking news. Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. Im wolf blitzer in the situation room. Were following breaking news. Police and protesters clashing in louisville, kentucky, after a grand jury declined to directly charge any of the Police Officers in the death of Breonna Taylor. Were just hours away from a curfew getting ready to take effect there. There is also breaking pandemic news. The u. S. Death toll surpassing 201,000 people and in stark testimony to lawmakers, the cdc director Robert Redfield is now warning that 90
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