after president trump indicates the summit he just cancelled could still be on. >> it's moving along very micely. so we are looking at june 12th in singapore. >> former director of national intelligence james clapper weighs in. and finger pointing. president trump is passing the blame for separating immigrant families at the border as democrats call the president's policies inhumane. >> if you cross the border unlawfully then we will prosecute you. it's gnat sithat simple. >> while hundreds of migrant children are missing. hello. i'm dana bash in for jake tapper in washington where the state of our union is playing games. president trump had a busy saturday night appearing in the oval office to herald the release of an american prisoner from venezuela and indicating the historic summit with north korea might not be cancelled after all. >> it's moving along very nicely. so we are looking at june 12th in singapore. that hasn't changed. and it's moving along pretty well. >> as the world watches the diplomatic whip lash on north korea the president continues to toy with the special counsel's russia investigation. in a flurry of tweets on saturday the president called the probe rigged and despite presenting no evidence again claimed government spies were in his campaign. here is what he tweeted. with spies or informants as the democrats like to call them because it sounds less sinister all over my campaign even from an early date why didn't the crooked highest levels of the fbi or quote/unquote justice contact me to tell me of the phony russia problem? this as his lawyer rudy giuliani says the president's legal team wants its own briefing on the classified information presented to lawmakers. let's go straight to the president's lawyer former new york city mayor rudy giuliani. thank you for joining me this morning. let's start right there. the fbi confidential source is directly connected to this ongoing investigation into the president's campaign. doesn't it create an appearance that the white house is interfering with this investigation? >> i don't see that, dana. i think that the white house has every right to know and president has right to know as commander in chief. after all, the investigation as the democrats have revealed nothing new. the new would be if something turned up that was a surprise. so it should be very easy to brief us then we can come out of it saying the same thing, nothing new or we might say nothing. >> you say that the president has a right to know as commander in chief. this is a very complex situation. he is not just commander in chief. he was the head of and candidate for a campaign of which this investigation is taking place. >> that's another reason he should know. >> how is that legit for him to know about an investigation of him and his campaign? explain that. >> because it is over and it revealed nothing new. so he has a right to know about it both as a candidate back then, now as the president. he has a right to know about it in order to figure out what it means to this investigation. all that it means is an investigation that we thought was rigged was rigged from the very beginning. it never should have started. there is no evidence of collusion. >> if you are saying it is over back to the confidential source then are you saying here this morning that you feel comfortable that there was no spy as you and the president call this person? >> i don't because i see contradictions. i see clapper saying there was a spy but he was spying on the russian end. but spying on the russian end if they thought there was collusion meant spying on the president's campaign. i would like to know who he is. >> james clapper said he didn't know anything about it but was using the word spy because it was what the president said and said he doesn't like that term. here is my big picture question. you are somebody who made your name as u.s. attorney in new york. you had a reputation for prosecuting crime as a mayor. if somebody connected to one of your investigations asked you for information about a confidential source you wouldn't stand for it. >> of course. i wouldn't give them the name. if i thought that that information would help induce a guilty plea or cooperation i would lay out for the lawyers or let them see the evidence. very often prosecutors lay out the evidence in order to end the case and say look at this and listen to the tape recording or listen to information. every once in a while will give up a confidential source. if it is true and dangerous to this man he better be protected already. says to me maybe the fbi and justice department is being a little hypocritical here. >> why is that? >> well, they said he can't be revealed because it is dangerous. now wall street journal and other newspapers revealed. if that man is the man he better be protected. i'm not sure but i hear he is not. >> i want to ask. will the president sit down with robert mueller even if the white house legal team or you, anybody on his legal team doesn't get a briefing about this confidential source? >> well, if he wasn't thinking about it and it wasn't an active possibility we would be finished with it now. he is adamant in wanting to do it. >> he the president? >> the president. we are more convinced as we see it that this is a rigged investigation. now we have this whole new spy gate thing thrown on top of it, on top of legitimate questions. >> how is there evidence that it is rigged? i want to go through it because i know you use this term a lot and so does the president. this investigation has already brought charges against 22 people and entities including 13 russians who have been indicted for trying to change the outcome of the election. how is it a rigged investigation when they are not even close to being done and they already have this in their pocket? >> because first of all there are two different investigations. counter intelligence investigation is now over for over a year. they weren't disclosing it to anybody. immediately that raises questions in my mind why not. i think why not because it clears the president. then you get the comey thing which is a leak of a confidential memo which is illegal for an fbi official to do and that becomes the basis for appointing mueller. i'm not saying mueller is illegitimate i'm saying the basis for which he was appointed. >> you think that the mueller probe is legitimate? >> not anymore. i did when i came in. now i see spy gate. i see -- but you call spy gate you admit happened before robert mueller was brought on. >> but it has to inform the decision to appoint mueller. either it is evidence or not. if it's not it goes along with what they found already which is no collusion with the russians. >> it wasn't -- i want to point one other thing out. even the republicans in the house when they did their report they said that the reason that this probe was launched was because of george. >> i think the explanation for mueller is mainly comey. comey said he wanted independent counsel. comey wrote a memo and leaked it illegally through a professor. hence we have mueller, illegal. no basis. whatever the spy gate thing is we are just learning about that now. i wouldn't come to definitive conclusion. two indictments that you point out are questionable. second, the russians, it's a pretty phony indictment. they are not showing up for anything. you think they are coming in to be tried? that is like a paper indictment. >> how are you so sure that there was no collusion with anybody in the campaign? we don't know what robert mueller and his team has right now. do you know something we don't? >> i know 50 years of experience tells me they don't have a darn thing because they would have used it already and wouldn't be off on collusion and manafort and cohen. >> maybe not necessarily against the president himself but people in his orbit. you are confident that there is no collusion? >> i can't be confident. am i confident because i was in that campaign at a very intimate level? nobody talked about or knew about russians. this came as a surprise to me to the president. you go out to the outer orbit how do i know what is going on? i don't think that would matter. if there is collusion with a guy 50 rungs down. if it did i don't know what that means. i want you to take a look at this cnn survey. when asked whether president trump should testify in the mueller investigation only 39% of republicans say yes. that is down 15 points in less than 6 weeks. this is not an accident. is it fair to say that you and the president have a very specific, very political strategy to undermine this investigation and it appears to be working? >> no, not a strategy. how did i know about a spy gate? how did i know about -- >> they are not talking. >> it's falling apart. so we have a briefing. we have congress involved. we didn't do that. they are doing it. i didn't know the cohen thing. i didn't know it would result in nothing involving the president or so far has. i don't know that judge ellis was going to question the legitimacy of the indictment by the mueller team. >> the president's allies on capitol hill. >> very committed democrats. the president's allies on capitol hill and was picked up by the president in his tweets and by you, as well, have been seizing on this confidential source you call it spy gate without giving evidence that you really think it is there. that has no question helped erode public confidence in the investigation which you are a lawyer but also an experienced -- you know what you are doing. is that fair to say? >> i hope i know what i'm doing. i have a birthday tomorrow. i think i know what i'm doing. >> this is an intentional strategy to undermine the investigation knowing that the investigators, special counsel for policy not to talk about you are very free to and are very aggressive about doing so. >> well, they are giving us the material. i couldn't do it if i didn't have the material. they are giving us the material to do it. of course, we have to do it in defending the president. we are defending to a large extent we are defending here it is for public opinion because eventually the decision here will be impeach or not impeach. members of congress democrat and republican will be informed a lot by their stitconstituents. the jury is the american people. democrats i suggest from their own self-interest this is not a good issue to go into the congressional election. >> that is something you and nancy pelosi agree on. we will leave that for a second. we will have to take a quick break. we have a lot more to discuss including potential interview with the special counsel robert mueller. will the president do that interview? 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(cheers) what's it worth to talk to your mom? what's the value of a walk in the woods? the value of capital is to create, not just wealth, but things that matter. morgan stanley tso why binge in here, when you can do it out there. with this clever little app called audible. you can listen to the stories you love while doing the things you love, outside. everyone's doing it she's binging... they're binging... and... so is he. so put on your headphones, turn on audible and binge better. . and we are back with president trump's lawyer rudy giuliani. let's talk about potential interview with the special counsel. you told my colleague kwochris chris cuomo that robert mueller has two topics sgrmpt h stopics >> it is contingent on every point being worked out. if everything can be worked out then they would probably limit it to collusion and obstruction. the collusion part we are pretty comfortable with because there has been none. the obstruction part i'm not as comfortable with. the president is fine with it. he is innocent. i am not comfortable because it is a matter of interpretation, not just hard and fast, true/not true. if you interpret his comment about firing mueller -- i'm sorry, firing cohmey -- if you see it as obstructing the investigation then you can say it is obstruction and then you can say it is perjury which is where i think if they are neeky they are going. i don't believe bob is. those guys were president hillary clinton's victory dinner. >> mr. mayor, robert mueller is a republican. that is a little red herring. i understand why you are talking about people who are democrats. >> who worked for obama and who hired democrats and very partisan democrats. i never would have done that. all my assistant u.s. attorneys -- >> robert mueller is the special counsel and he is in charge of this. are you saying that -- >> which is why we have pause because if i were looking at 13 down the middle people i would say fine. >> let's get back to the interview because that's the key question here. you mentioned the second topic, questions about obstruction. are you as the president's lawyer willing to allow him to sit down and answer questions about that, about firing james comey? >> all of that depends on how comfortable we are are them having an open mind and not having interpreted wrongly already. if we had an open mind we would recommend to the president. we are a little bit away from that. i thought we were closer last week when we talked because of the summit. the summit is i think going to happen now and on our terms. i can't believe kim jong-un is talking about de-nuclearization. >> you said earlier this week that president trump was more likely to sit down with the north korean dictator kim jong-un than special counsel robert mueller. does the president see robert mueller as a bigger threat than kim jong-un? >> no, no, no. in the case of unen k-kim jong- he has advisers. talking about meeting us on the battlefield people expect me to intrude. i can't do that. now the guy has made a remarkable turn around. he not only wants to meet, he tells president moon that he is considering de-nuclearization of the entire peninsula. wow. that's nobel prize stuff. >> the president certainly hopes so. you are talking about north korea i have to ask because you brought it up, the president last night said in the oval office that the talks are going very, very well. you are talking to us about it. are you talking to the president about north korea, as well? >> he talks to me about it. it depends on our timing is driven greatly. for example, if they put this thing on we literally can't get much done until after the 12th nor would anybody want us to. so if not we have a good span of time there which we were counting on for making our decision and then moving forward. >> you are not advising the president on foreign policy. that's not part of your purview? >> i used to in my old role as his policy adviser but i'm not now. i hear to the extent that it effects our timing. >> got it. sources told cnn on friday that president trump's former personal attorney michael cohen got yet another consulting contract with the business partner of a russian oligarch after meeting with him in trump tower. was the president okay with michael cohen selling access to him? >> first of all, most importantly the president is not involved. the president had no knowledge of these. the first one was the one involving some other russian company. president didn't know about it. then we asked about the other two. didn't know about it and at&t justice department -- >> is he upset with michael cohen for attempting to sell access? >> he doesn't like that. i don't think his worst critics believe he likes that. he definitely wants to do everything he can to drain the swamp in washington. anything that even raises a question about that he will not be happy about. doesn't mean the man should be -- i like michael cohen. lots of people are selling advice. some are selling influence. i don't like it. stick with the influence part. henry kissinger the highest level of advice. >> the president unleashed attacks on career civil servants, former cia director john brennan, former director of national intelligence james clapper. you worked closely with intelligence officers. do you really believe that people like brennan and clapper are part of a deep state conspiracy? >> i don't know what you want to call it. i have no regard at all for clapper and brennan. i think they are two clowns. clapper is talking about spying which he doesn't realize spying on the trump campaign. brennan was chief torturer in charge and then disowned it. i don't know what he did with the cia. he is the most political cia director i have ever met. clapper, they are not civil servants as far as i know. >> all of those decades of service in the military? >> there are a lot of people with decades of service, some good, some bad. some get consumed with power and begin to lie. in the case of brennan he is a political guy. he was obama's chief defender. i'm not sure about clapper. wat >> thank you for joining me this morning. i appreciate your time. >> you are very fair. >> you mentioned james clapper. he is here with us. he will respond to the president's lawyer. we will ask him how he interprets the diplomatic push back and forth over north korea. stay with us. -looks great, honey. -right? sometimes you need an expert. i got it. and sometimes those experts need experts. on it. 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>> no. i mean, i don't think this is a good idea at all anymore than it was a good idea to have the president's attorney show up unannounced, i guess, for the gang of eight briefing. i was recalling what i heard about that. my last gang of eight briefing when we briefed before we flew up to new york to brief -- >> the leadership in congress. >> to include the chair and ranking members of each of the intelligence oversight committees. trying to imagine what it would have been like if somebody walked in at that session which had extremely sensitive information in it. that's just really a long standing practice and norm that makes our government work. >> i want to ask you one of the things that rudy giuliani brought up and that the president has been tweeting about this weekend which is if there was enough concern about people penetrating the trump campaign, why not contact him? why not contact the campaign instead of sending an informant or confidential source in. >> first thing is determine what was going on. if there wasn't a concern about the russians and that can be perhaps no reason to do that. the fbi has rules and protocols on when they decide to do things like that and i don't think at that point that it had reached the point where it would be appropriate to engage the head of the campaign or nominee. >> you didn't -- as the director of national intelligence did you know about the operation or not? >> absolutely not. i did not know about it nor would it be appropriate for any dni to know about the specifics of informants, identities of what they are doing on the part of the fbi. there are lots of reasons of that not the least of which is confidentiality. >> let's talk about north korea. you spent a lot of time at the korean peninsula. you went to pyongyang to help free two americans. what is your interpretation of the back and forth going on over the summit? >> first of all, i support the letter that president trump sent to kim jong-un. i think it was a good thing to do. having done that, though, i think i have been long an advocate -- this is typical north korean. two steps forward, one step back. that is what they always do. in some ways kim jong-un may have met his match here with our very unconventional president. what i have been long an advocate for is let's first establish the apparatus for communicating which i think would be a real plus for the summit. by that i mean establishing interest in sections in both washington and pyongyang. what this means is a diplomatic presence below a level of a full embassy. this would facilitate, would be reciprocal and facilitate dialogue and gain a lot of insight and understanding about what is going on in north korea, promote information flow into north korea and would give the north koreans a measure of security. and if they can agree to tone down the rhetoric and use that conduit instead that would be an improvement. just a note on de-nuclearization. de-nuclearization could also be a two-way street. that is applied to the united states, as well, where the north koreans can expect us to restrict our nuclear umbrella meaning no more b 1s, b 52s deploying on the peninsula. >> unfortunately, we are out of time. can you tell me. do you think it is better for the president to have the summit regardless of whether there is no agreement just to establish the dialogue? >> i do. i think there is value having gone this far. there is value in meeting and greeting, gripping and grinning and establishing a report. >> thank you for coming on. nearly 1,500 migrant children are unaccounted for. president trump is slamming democrats for immigrant families but his chief of staff is saying it is a tough deterrent. a panel weighs in next. and a little nervous. but not so much about what market volatility may do to their retirement savings. that's because they have a shield annuity from brighthouse financial, which allows them to take advantage of growth opportunities in up markets, while maintaining a level of protection in down markets. so they can focus on new things like exotic snacks. talk with your advisor about shield annuities from brighthouse financial- established by metlife. our because of smoking.ital. but we still had to have a cigarette. had to. but then, we were like. what are we doing? the nicodermcq patch helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. nicodermcq. you know why, we know how. vikingsthe axeor tale? 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>> it is a tragedy, number one. it is unspeakbly cruel. the parents are coming with their children because they are trying to escape some hokacape they are coming to save their kids. their children are being torn away. now we are finding that our government has lost these children. where are the kids? as a mom i am -- i just can't think about a child, a 4 year old in a different country with strangers and now vulnerable to human trafficking and abuse. there is nothing that these parents can do. i think that the president should use every resource at his disposal to find the kids and make sure that they are safe and tell us that they are safe. >> this is an unintended consequence? >> i think this is a process going on a long time. the children come into detention. there is a vetting process of who the children are assigned to. it is a much larger group of kids. they are assigned to sponsors in this country who go through a process to be able to qualify to be sponsors. the children are placed in them. what happened, thousands more than the 1,500 you are talking about that they follow up with a lot of these -- they follow up to find out where the children are and how they are doing. they found that 1,500 of them, somehow the sponsors and the kids are off the radar. they haven't checked in. they haven't been able to find them. the reality is a lot of the sponsors are in many cases have been checked out but they may have other reasons for not communicating or dropping off the system. so this isn't what we have lost these kids. they were placed in vetted homes and for some reason or another these parents are not -- >> where are they if they are not lost? >> the question is they haven't had communication with these previously vetted sponsors. does it mean they are lost? it means there is a process to try to find why the sponsors haven't checked back in to give us our location. the idea that 100% of the sponsors will check in is never the case. there is always a problem, people move. they don't feel we haveanymore. the idea that they are lost is hyperbole to create an issue. >> you think 1,500 children being lost is not an issue then there is something definitely wrong. >> the idea that they are lost, they are placed with families. >> and the government has said they lost track of them. that is another word for lost. >> that doesn't mean the kids are -- there are logical explanations. again, we are talking about a government system. we will sit here forever and tell you how inadequate a lot of these government agencies are at doing a lot of things. we lose people all the time. >> let me just bring in not just democrats who are saying this. conservatives have been outspoken about being upset about this. eric erickson said pro lifers, if you are upset about ripping a child out of his mother's womb please be upset about ripping a child out of his mother's arms at the border. >> this was an explicit policy decision. as a deterrent to mothers or families bringing young children across the border. that is a policy decision by the president. i wouldn't defend it. he made that decision. the issue is that. then it is a question of the kids who the department of dhs has lost track of. most reasonable semi defense of the situation which is more than the administration has done. if this happened in any normal administration the president would say we are looking into it as fast as we can. the secretary of homeland security will be on television saying we care a lot about the kids. congress would be having hearings and deciding whether to pass legislation. we'll see if congress does something when we get back. what is striking is the president doesn't mind the story because it makes him look tough on immigration. there is no pushback from the administration. >> he is also -- he and his colleagues are slamming democrats saying that this started out as a democratic policy. we have done a fact check and that is not exactly true. it's more bipartisan. >> this is stunningly imoral and cruel. whoever started it, this president and this administration has the power to stop it. and to bill's point about this president going the extra step through policy and the fact that some particularly him has a cavalier attitude i want us to put orselurselves in the place. i can't dream of a situation where my son would be torn from arms in that way. >> these parpents are putting their children in peril. you don't know their situation. some may just be economic -- there may be all sorts of reasons. >> to me it is not the point anymore. you want to discourage that behavior. >> we have children's lives at stake here. >> let's get to the bottom line here. >> the point is that america has a moral obligation to those kids. >> the moral obligation is to deter that type of activity. >> you can be -- >> at some point -- >> we will use the children as a pawn. >> want to believe some of the parents have been behaving irresponsibly. it is unwise and cruel to take the kids away from them. >> we take kids away from parents who do illegal acts all the time. >> i guarantee that -- millions of kids whose parents have been put in jail have been lost in the system. you know that to be true. >> i cannot justify this and the president is going an extra mile. >> i just have outrage about a bunch of stuff. if you want to go down that line we can. >> calling for members of the administration to come up and testify about this. is there any doubt that that will happen? >> congress has power. congress can say this should not be the policy. this policy is not prohibited. little kids should be kept with their parents. they can be disciplined together and held together in a detention facility while their claims to be able to immigrate are adjudicated. this is what congress is supposed to do. it is another case where i am curious to see when they get back i would insist on action fast, not a hearing. why don't they just change the policy? >> everybody, thank you for that lively discussion. it is a very tough issue. i think we all agree that the kids are the most important thing whatever the policy is. up next, is kim jong-un earning the art of the deal from the president himself? that's the subject of this week's state of the cartoonian. . it's a series of smart choices. and when you replace one meal or snack a day with glucerna made with carbsteady to help minimize blood sugar spikes you can really feel it. glucerna. everyday progress. the sun is shining so why binge in here, when you can do it out there. with this clever little app called audible. you can listen to the stories you love while doing the things you love, outside. everyone's doing it she's binging... they're binging... and... so is he. so put on your headphones, turn on audible and binge better. i'm your phone,istle text alert. stuck down here between your seat and your console, playing a little hide-n-seek. cold... warmer... warmer... ah boiling. jackpot. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, you could be picking up these charges yourself. so get allstate, where agents help keep you protected from mayhem... ...like me. mayhem is everywhere. are you in good hands? i'm about to start the hair, skin and nails challenge. so my future self will thank me. thank you. i become a model? yes. no. start the challenge today. and try new tropical citrus flavor with collagen. nature's bounty. maybe the president should recognize the north korean leader's negotiating tricks, after all, he wrote the book. >> reporter: it's back to school for kim jong-un, amidst all this back and forth about the summit that may or may not be, we do know that the north korean leader is trying to figure out president trump. the class, donald trump 101, a primary textbook written by the president himself. >> i wrote "the art of the deal." one of the all-time best selling books about deals a s and deal maki making. if you can't say you're going to walk, you're not going to get thehe's also reading four and fury. the north koreans are hungry for any advantage, maybe even studying the president's choice of fuel. >> the big macs are create, the quarter pounder with cheese. >> reporter: the president may want to practice his golf swing. >> even as we played golf, we talked about different things. >> reporter: or maybe on the apprentice, all 14 seasons. >> you're fired. >> reporter: one test both leaders have already passed, they both know to putt on a show. pah! that will never work. no, no, no, nah. a bulb of light?!? 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