conversation with pastor emanuel cleaver. >> if you believe the president is a christian, why would that be -- you still come to the belief he's trying to destroy religion? >> republican strategist ralph reed. >> is it similarly wrong them for democrats to say that the republican party is engaged in a war on women? >> and david brody of the christian broadcasting network. i'm candy crowley and this is "state of the union." all of that in a few minutes. first to the breaking news we are following this morning. legendary cbs anchorman mike wallace is dead at the age of 93. i'm joined on the phone by larry king. i know you were very good friends with mike wallace. give us your thoughts this morning. >> i am so sad, candy. i know it was a ripe old age, but there's no one like him. i had the pleasure of spending three, four hours with him last year at his apartment and he wound up, i know, sent to a home. he was really suffering from dementia and it was sad to see. there was no other broadcaster like him. we will never see his likes again. i had the honor of having him do a feature on me on "60 minutes" then do a second one. he has been in my home. he hosted on cnn my 70th birthday party. they didn't come any better. he was a glorious human being, a wonderful raconteur, a great journalist, a great host, an interviewer with his own style. i grew up watching him on an old show called "nightbeat" that he did in new york. and that voice, candy, wouldn't you agree, that voice, mike wallace's voice, which never changed its timbre, he hosted the biography series, it was extraordinary. mike wallace was a guy when he is on, you can't hit the clicker. >> no, it is mesmerizing, i agree with you, a terrific voice, terrific journalist. we have talked a lot about his legacy to journalism but tell me what he brought to the viewing audience. what is his legacy to his audience? >> he brought the story. he went to the action and he gave you the story. was it objective? sometimes yes, sometimes no, sometimes very subjective. but he got to the core of things and he enabled you -- you almost felt like you were with him when he was in the trenches or he was -- at that gas station where the guy was turning back the speedometer or he was talking to a-record, which i think was his last interview with a-rod, a-rod admitted using drugs. he brought you there. he -- he embellished it. he -- there's no way to describe him except, as i said, and you agree, you could not turn him off. when mike was on, you could not turn him off. and it was at the same at the different table. when he was talking, people listened. >> larry king. thank you so much for your reflections today. we really appreciate you taking the time. >> candy, we will never see his likes again. >> i think you're right. we have just received this statement from cbs. "all of us at cbs news and particularly at "60 minutes" owe so much to mike. without him and his iconic style, there probably wouldn't be a "60 minutes," there simply hasn't been another broadcast journalist with that much talent. it almost didn't matter what stories you were covering, you just wanted to hear what he would ask next. around cbs, he was the same infection, funny and ferocious person he was on tv. we loved him and we will miss him very much." that statement from jeff facinger, the chairman of cbs news and executive producer of "60 minutes." mike wallace had a long and storied career. take a look. urge i'm mike wallace. you don't trust whites. you have said so. you don't trust jews. you have said so well, here i am. the butcher amin, you help and you talk about human rights? i'm simply asking a question, we're doing a profile -- >> i'm asking the question, how many more times must i answer? >> all right. you really believe that you lived lives before? >> oh, yes, mike, there's no doubt in my mind about it. >> leave the shoes off, paul. >> that's okay. >> and start the interview please. it's a voyage of discovery as long as you live. >> you feel 77? >> no, but i hate the -- for some reason, 77 seems like it's old. you want to be at the top of your game. and the fact of the matter is for that kind of work, i was no longer at the top of my game. the -- i'm not retiring. i'm gonna be working. i'm gonna be competing with you for certain individuals that you would like to hit before i get to. >> a fella who started as a $20 a week radio announcer in grand rapids, michigan in 1939, to wind up in the television academy hall of fame with the likes of walter cronkite and edward r. murrow. you can imagine. >> i am joined now by howard kurtz of reliable sources, i was reading background before it came on and found it amazing that mike wallace was born before most americans even had a radio in their home and now he is this storied newsman in it. v, but you don't stay in it. v that long, do those kind of interviews with so many different people without breaking some china. >> well, i tangled with mike wallace on occasion. he was an extraordinarily passionate journalist who didn't want to hang it up. he kept announcing he was retiring and then would you see him back on "60 minutes" the next week. let's not crown him, let's not make him into a saint. he was very aggressive. he really pioneered what came to be known, ambush interview, the cameras would go after some miscreant on the street. "60 minutes" moved away from that after 10 or 15 years and mike wallace distanced himself from that. some was staged and the thing we would frown a bit upon today. there was a time when i wrote about mike wallace conducting a hidden camera interview a report here can had come she thought to fill in "60 minutes" on a story, didn't know she was being taped, didn't know it would air. cbs ended up reprimanding him for that. the next time he talked to me, call made very dirty name but in a good-natured way. >> tone mattered, doesn't it? i asked larry what his legacy to the audience was. what's his legacy to journalism, overall, conceding that we all have problems one way or the other and weaknesses? >> well, i mean, all of the aggressive tone on some news shows and some people take it too far. some people don't do it as well, you know, really flows from mike wallace and "60 minutes" as jeff fager, cbs news stayed in this statement there wouldn't have been a "60 minutes" without mike wallace. became the face of that program. nobody knew it would succeed when it was launched in 1968, a news magazine show that would have hard news and interviews with entertainers and celebrities. wallace set an example, for all the many people that worked with him, the producer, at cbs news over the years but for those of us that just followed his career, being aggressive, demanding answers, having that edge, having that passion, being willing to take risks, there was a time when did he a controversial tobacco story that cbs didn't want to air answered criticized cbs. i mean, you -- it's hard to invent that so, i don't think it's too much to say that he really was an inspiration to a lot of people in the news business, candy. >> and real original, was there from the beginning. again, thank you so much, howard kurtz, we appreciate it. again, legendary cbs anchorman mike wallace is dead at the age of 93. thank again, howie. up next, my conversation with the chair of the democratic national committee, debbie wasserman schultz. copd makes it hard to breathe, so i wasn't playing much of a role in my own life, but with advair, i'm breathing better so now i can take the lead on a science adventure. advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator, working together to help improve your lung function all day. advair won't replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than twice a day. people with copd taking advair may have a higher chance of pneumonia. advair may increase your risk of osteoporosis and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking advair. if you're still having difficulty breathing, take the lead. ask your doctor if including advair could help improve your lung function. get your first full prescription free and save on refills at advaircopd.com. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 there are atm fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and the most dreaded fees of all, hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, you won't pay fees on top of fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no monthly account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and we rebate every atm fee. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck tdd# 1-800-345-2550 because when it comes to talking, there is no fee. when we were determined to see it through. here's an update on the progress. we're paying for all spill related clean-up costs. bp findings supports independent scientists studying the gulf's environment. thousands of environmental samples have been tested and all beaches and waters are open. and the tourists are back. i was born here, i'm still here and so is bp. in an election expected to center on the economy, both parties got something to chew on this week. 120,000 new jobs were added to the economy in march, but that was way off the 200,000 expected. unemployment dropped a tenth of a percent, but economists say that's because some people quit looking for work. mitt romney called the report weak and very troubling. the president said there's a lot more work to do. joining me now from miami, florida is the chair of the democratic national committee, congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz. thank you, congressman, for joining us on this holiday weekend. >> you're welcome. i want to start out with the jobs report. mitt romney described it as weak. we've heard various economists describe the economy as sluggish. how would you describe the latest jobs report? >> well, because we've now had 25 straight months of private sector job growth, more than 4 million jobs created, and where actually at this point in our recovery, we've created seven times more jobs than at the same point in the recovery in 2001, i'd say we're making slow but steady progress. and like the president said, we have got a ways to go, we need to keep pushing. but what's really bothersome to me, candy, is that it almost seems like my republican colleagues in congress and mitt romney are rooting for economic failure. i mean, they've been hyperfocused on one job, barack obama's, for really the last two years. and we all need to be pulling together to focus on moving the economy forward for the middle class and for working families. and mitt romney's plans, the republican budget take they just put out in the house, they're focused on making sure millionaires and billionaires can continue to do even better. and that's a pretty huge contrast. >> republicans would disagree that they're rooting for a bad economy and in fact they out of their way to say we welcome any progress, but this isn't fast enough. i want to read you something that reince priebus your counterpart said on friday. "over three years ago, president obama projected that the unemployment rate would be below 6% by now thanks to his stimulus. but the stimulus failed and unemployment has been far above that level ever since." is that legitimate criticism because, in fact, that is what the president's economic folks projected with the stimulus that was passed. >> again, that's another example of where the republicans just refuse to acknowledge that we've made -- that we've made progress. we have made significant progress. >> but it was your benchmark, it was the president's benchmark. and is holding him to that fair? >> that's -- what -- what prince -- reince priebus and other republicans analysts are saying is that he's inherited the worst economy since the great depression and the recovery act, as much as republicans can repeat it over and over, it didn't fail. it created and saved more than 3 million jobs. >> but it failed to do what was promised. isn't that -- is that a legitimate criticism? >> no, i don't think it's a legitimate criticism. in fact, it succeeded in jump-starting this economy. it was the purpose of infusing that $787 billion. we needed to give the economy a shock to the heart. we needed to make sure that we didn't lose millions of teachers jobs and first responders like firefighters and police officers. we needed to invest in our infrastructure because we have crumbling roads and bridges. people just jam packed on roads teeming with traffic. that's what the recovery act did. and it helped jump-start us to the point where we've had 25 straight months of job growth in the private sector. remember, we were losing 750,000 jobs a month when the president took office thanks to the failed policies he inherited from the bush administration. we have made a good amount of progress, we just know we have a good ways to go. >> let me ask but gas prices, now over $4 a gallon on average. we all know when gas prices go up, consumers spend less and companies tend to hire fewer people simply because their overhead has gone up. do you worry that these gas prices, should they stay here, will inflict some damage on what i think you still admit is a fairly weak recovery? >> as a representative of my constituents, i worry any time there is an impact on their wallet and on their bottom line. and, obviously, higher gas prices does that. but that's why i'm really glad to see president obama focused on an all-of-the-above energy strategy because previously under the bush administration, and what the republicans now under mitt romney want to continue is a drill, baby, drill strategy, which is not a strategy, it's a bumper sticker. and it's also sticking our heads in the sand that we'll be able to continue to rely on our dependence on foreign oil and fossil fuels for eternity when we know those are finite. we have the most domestic production ever. we need on focus on investing in biofuels and alternative energy sources like wind and solar. so for my children and my constituents' children, we can have an abundant source of energy that's renewable for years to come. and, in fact, gas prices over the long term. >> let me turn you to one of the democrats' favorite subject these days and that is what they call the republican war on women. again, from the republican national committee, a spokesman said, "it is down right pathetic, they," meaning democrats, "would use a term like war when there are millions of americans actually have engaged in a real war. to use a term like that borders on unpatriotic." the war on women, i understand that you disagree with a lot of the policies that have come out either at the state level or things that have been said on the floor. but do you think war on women actually helps the dialogue? is it a little overstretched? >> i think we need to look at what republicans are saying about the policies towards women themselves. is look at what senator lisa murkowski of alaska just said in her state the other day. if republicans don't think that our policies are an attack on women, they need to go home and talk to their wives and daughters. because the policies that have come out of the republican partying saying we should have to have a debate again over contraception and whether we should have access to it and whether it should be affordable, saying that like governor scott walker in wisconsin, you know, he tried to quietly repeal the equal pay act. women aren't going to stand for that. governor walker just signed a bill that repeals the equal pay law that they had in wisconsin for years. you have republicans that have engaged themselves on trying to redefine rape as only being forceful rape. defunding planned parenthood and family planning programs. the lilly ledbetter act that put teeth behind the notion that women deserve equal pay for equal work. that was the first bill president obama signed in to law. the overwhelming majority of republicans voted against it. so the focus of the republican party on turning back the clock for women really is something that's unacceptable and shows how callus and insensitive they are towards women's priorities. >> congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz, of course, heads the democratic national committee, always too short of time. please come back. >> always. thanks. swing voters. latinos and women. are key to winning the white house and you can bet the presidential candidates are looking at the polls for answers even though they might not admit it. >> you don't need a poll to know that it wasn't a sure thing. >> there's one poll that's ridiculous. >> we started off 15 points down. now we're leading. thanks, you guys. secure and reliable energy to the united states. over the coming years, projects like these could create more than half a million jobs in the us alone. from the canadian border, through the mid west, to the gulf coast. benefiting hundreds of thousands of families throughout the country. this is just what our economy needs right now. metamucil uses super hard working psyllium fiber, which gels to remove unsexy waste and reduce cholesterol. taking psyllium fiber won't make you a model but you should feel a little more super. metamucil. down with cholesterol. joining us now, mark penn, democratic strategist and democratic strategist and linda divall, republican strategist and president and ceo of american viewpoint public opinion firm. thank you both for joining us. i want to show our viewers, this is independent votes in swing states. obama 48, romney 39. so how did romney lose the independent vote? >> well, i think will this is a significant reversal. i think romney through the primaries has been beaten up by the others, seen as removed from kind of the middle class, average voter. has trouble with women now, with latinos. boy, i think he's entering the general election now kind of a totally beaten up candidate and this poll is a reflection of that. >> and he's not the first to arrive beat up. the very nature of the swing voter is that they swing. so is there anything in this that gives you hope that he can get them back, that romney could get back some of these swing voters? >> certainly. number one, it's early april. number two, when you look at with registered voters, the margin becomes much closer. thirdly, this is not a typical nominee that tends to go down. >> we want to talk about women. in this same poll, again, this is swing states, and this is the women vote. obama 54%, romney 36%. is he being tainted from some things fellow republicans have done or is it something about romney? >> i think when you look at it, it's mostly about the republican party, but romney has failed to distinguish himself from the pack. i think when you had the dust up about contraception, i think women said, whoa, wait a minute here. this party, this republican party and whoever is the nominee, will be driven by an agenda that is socially way too conservative for me in these times. and i think that shifted a lot of voters. >> and the contraception argument for republican, they wanted to be seen as a separation of church and state issue and instead, the democrats have framed very well this sort of war on women. and looks as though it's hurt him. >> i don't think it's just how the democrats framed it, it's the inept handling of the republican party on the issue. if you look at what happened in 2010, republicans were very competitive and in fact won the vote with women voters. so i think there's an important lesson here. when we get the focus back on the economy and the president's record, things change very dramatically with the women's vote. >> we've had soccer moms, security moms, waitress moms. what's the target voter here? >> as you well know, there is