Middle of the heart, and she wouldnt be prosecuted. Meanwhile, the pundits keep critiquing donald trump, but he is gaining ground. Both nationally and in swing states, leading democrats to wonder, why isnt she doing better . Also, in the closest thing to a debate that we have had so far, the big loser was the moderator, matt lauer. Will the medias Rough Treatment of lauer impact moderators of the real debates. And as we mark the 15th anniversary of 9 11, congress has just approved letting victims sue saudi arabia. But will the president stop that with a veto . I will ask the nations first secretary of homeland security, tom ridge. But first, both candidates said shocking things last night that will only perpetuate their high negatives. Theres a third party in the race, fighting its way to the debate stage. And the libertarian ticket, gary johnson and bill weld, will be joining me later in the program. This week, johnson finally became a National Name in the president ial race, but not for any reason he had hoped. The president ial candidate number flubbed a question on aleppo, syria, which he should have nailed. What would you do if you were elected about aleppo . About . Aleppo. And what is aleppo . Some have called his brain freeze a disqualifier. Really . In comparison to his opponents . I dont agree. And i cant help but notice that in the New York Times coverage of this error, the times had to make two corrections to its own reporting, because the newspaper misidentified aleppo. I know, we ask more from our president s, but Gary Johnsons in good company. Thats my point. Look, its doubtful that johnson will be the nations 45th president or that bill weld will replace joe biden. But i think that americans would benefit from hearing their message of Fiscal Conservatism and Social Liberalism. They deserve to be on that debate stage. Neither the republican nor democratic ticket can match their executive governing experience. In fact, we havent had a Third Party Ticket this qualified in modern history. Johnson is a successful entrepreneur turned public servant. Twice elected republican in the very Democratic State of new mexico, he eliminated the state deficit, created a surplus, all while reducing the size of the states government. And he governed without an ethical blemish. Quite a credential when viewed against his competition. Weld also elected twice as a republican in a Democratic State, massachusetts. His bio, straight out of central casting. Unfortunately, credentials dont determine debate participation. Polls do. And even though johnson and weld will be on all 50 State Ballots in order to get to debate, they need to quickly reach 15 in an average of five National Polls. While they meet that threshold in several states, theyre not there nationally yet. Despite the aleppo flap, i hope they make it. Johnson and weld have offered a nuanced vision of independence and thoughtfulness. They refuse to campaign dirty. They are even willing to utter the c word, compromise. Putting them on the debate stage would also force their opponents to defend their views against independent thinking. They just got their first endorsement from a major daily newspaper, the Richmond Times dispatch. So heres my idea. If a pollster calls you, tell them youre for johnson weld. You can always change your mind. After the debates. Time for you to get involved. And not just on twitter. I do a poll on my Daily Siriusxm radio program. Were going to try it out here. Go to cnn. Com vote and answer this question. Before the gary johnson controversy this week, would you have known the answer to what is aleppo . Be honest. Cnn. Com vote. Ill announce the results later in the program. Now to mark tomorrows 15th anniversary of 9 11, i had long ago invited the nations first secretary of homeland security, tom ridge. Glad i did. Because now there is so much more to ask him about from todays headlines. Mr. Secretary, great to see you. I want to begin with congress yesterday. Voting to allow 9 11 victim families to sue saudi arabia for the 9 11 plot. What should president obama do . Well, first of all, i think the Executive Branch has an entirely different perspective on the relationship with saudi arabia, so i dont think anyone should be surprised, given the complicated and important relationship we have with the saudis that the president vetoes it excuse me, the president vetoes it. And i wouldnt be surprised if the veto was overridden. I guess i take a look at this story 15 years later, after 9 11, and 9 11 certainly is a new chapter in american history, and certainly a new chapter in american security. And to think it took 15 years to make a decision in this regard is rather remarkable. And two, there are so many pressing challenges associated with what transpired in 9 11. Its disappointing they still havent addressed many of those in the past 15 years either. The more passage of time, the more i wonder, are they friend or are they foe . Whats tom ridges answer to that question . I think it depend on how they view their relationship with our country and their own sovereign interests at the time. Lets face it. Sovereign countries operate exclusively when its in their best interest. If its in their best interest to side with us, to deal with iran, and which is a certainly a challenge to their relationship in the region, then theyll be very supportive of us. If its in their best interest to work contrary to our interest, theyll do that. Sovereigns do that. We just need to understand it. There are no permanent allegiances in the global community. There are a lot closer allegiances among democracies, but sovereigns do whats best in their best interest. And we can align our best interest with theirs, theyre our friend. When our interest is not aligned with theirs, from time to time they necessarily can be a foe. Mr. Secretary, we will soon have a brandnew commanderinchief. Intelligence briefings now in earnest for both secretary clinton and for donald trump. I want to show you something that donald trump said relative to one of his Intel Briefings. Roll the tape. What i did learn is that our leadership, barack obama, did not follow what our experts and our truly when they call it intelligence, its there for a reason what our experts said to do. And i was very, very surprised. It in almost every instance. And i could tell, im pretty good with the Body Language. I could tell they were not happy. Our leaders did not follow what they were recommending. So he says, i can read the Body Language of those giving me an Intel Briefing and it tells me that obama and clinton did not follow their recommendations. Now youre a guy in the loop. Do Intelligence Briefers make recommendations, or present facts . In my experience, the professionalism of our Intelligence Community is undisputed. Its not their position nor their responsibility to make recommendations. Every intelligence briefing i had, and obviously i had multiple briefings, was strictly to the facts. And the notion that people are reading other peoples Body Language and pulling from that conclusions i think is its not only inappropriate, its not terribly president ial. Tom ridge grew up in public housing, went to harvard, and wore the uniform of his country in vietnam. I want to show you Something Else that donald trump said the other night. This pertaining to the generals in our military command. Roll that tape. I think under the leadership of barack obama, and Hillary Clinton, the generals have been reduced to rubble. They have been reduced to a point where its embarrassing for our country. Governor, he also said that he might replace generals. Is that the way the chain of command operates . Can he just replace generals . Well, he certainly cant. Lets be very, very clear about this. Whenever donald trump has something to say, he says it, regardless of whether its based in fact, based on reality or any of that sort. I mean, this whole notion that you can regardless of outcome, regardless of circumstances, singlehandedly wipe the slate clean, start replacing generals, is just its troubling to me that someone who aspires to be the president of the United States and the Commander In Chief would think so ill of those who have served this country for hundreds of years and be so dismissive of those who have given recommendations and so dismissive of their service. In that same Candidate Forum pertaining to national security, secretary clinton made a statement relative to both syria and iraq. I want to show you that tape, as well. They are not going to get Ground Troops we are not putting Ground Troops into iraq ever again. And beer not putting Ground Troops into syria. Were going to defeat isis without committing american Ground Troops. Mr. Secretary, i hope there are no Ground Troops placed in iraq or in syria. But i think theres a separate question as to whether she should have said that. Your view . Well, i dont think its ever appropriate for those who would be a commanderinchief or those, frankly, are in charge to be announcing in advance what our plans are. One of the challenges and one of the problems ive had sometimes with this administration is that tactics were divulged publicly. And i think its really inappropriate. Again, you aspire to be not only the president , but the commanderinchief, the leader of the free world and the notion that you would tell your foes in advance of certain things you would do or not do i think is just not again, i dont think its terribly president ial. Final question transparency is not always in our best interest as a country. And i think both of these candidates need to understand that. A quick final question. You and i come from opposite corners of the great commonwealth of pennsylvania. Is the state really in play . I think it will be no, i dont. But, again, i havent seen any polls. But my gut tells me that because of demographics, because of the extraordinary work the democrats have done in terms of registering voters, they have massive majority, and i think donald mr. Trump has to do better in the suburban counties outside of philadelphia, and right now, as i read the tea leaves, hes not doing very well there. Governor, thanks so much for coming back to the program. I always appreciate your commentary. Let me just thank you, michael, and your friend, steve singer. On this particular day you worked really hard and raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for the flight of the 93 memorial. So i tip my hat and thank you for that. 10 at a time. I hate steven singer. Com. Thanks for that. What do you think . Tweet me. Ill read some later in the program. Matt lauer, how he conducted backtoback interviews of Hillary Clinton and donald trump. Will that change the way the upcoming Debate Moderators conduct themselves . Donald trump had no problem with matt lauer. She was blaming matt lauer. I thought matt lauer did a very good job. His questions to me were very tough. But the gentleman who stood up and said, honestly, you should be in prison for what you did. To me, that was the tough one. burke at farmers, weve seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. Even mermutts. 1940s aqua music burke and we covered it, february third, twentysixteen. Talk to farmers. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum i thodid the ancestrydna toian. Find out im only 16 italian. So i went onto ancestry, soon learned that one of our ancestors was eastern european. This is my ancestor who i didnt know about. This week, america finally got to see the major Party President ial candidates interviewed backtoback on live tv. But the reviews were all about the conduct of the interviewer. Nbcs matt lauer was attacked for not challenging trump, while seeming to be very tough on clinton. With the upcoming president ial debates looming large, the role of the moderators now in the spotlight. Lester holt of nbc is doing the first one. Will he feel pressure to even things out . My next guest has a lot to say about that. David brock, a clinton supporter, who founded media matters, just wrote this letter to the commission on president ial debates, asking that they remove foxs Chris Wallace from the first from the debate that hell moderate. Among his reasons, roger ailes, who until recently was wallaces boss, has been advising donald trump, and that wallace said this about his role. Donald trump on Hillary Clinton, what do you do if the they make assertions that you know to be untrue . Thats not my job. I do not believe that its my job to be a truth squad. Its up to the other person to catch them on that. David brock is joining me now. Hey, david. Let me get this out of the way. I think that matt lauer made a mistake. By the way, ive got immense respect for him. But i think he made a mistake when not confronting donald trump relative to iraq. He absolutely should have made reference to the howard stern interview on iraq and said to donald trump, thats just not true. But in a debate scenario, is that really lauers job or Chris Wallaces job rather than the opponent . Isnt that why the opponent is there . A debate is a joust. It will be up to Hillary Clinton to correct that record. I dont think you need a constant factchecking operation going on inside the debate. But i do think where there are clear falsehoods that have been said before by these candidates, adequate preparation would be to challenge to challenge them on that. I mean, you know, youre a host. Youre going to challenge me in this interview. I cant see just sitting there and reading off a list of questions and not listening, not having a real conversation and not challenging. As i said, you know, it is certainly the role of the opponent, as well, to get in it. But i think you cant just lie down there in the face of these falsehoods. And as we know, every independent factchecking operation shows that donald trump, his lies are off the charts. Hillary was rated as the most truthful of the entire field, republican democrat. So the point here, if he lays down, its going to advantage trump, disadvantage hillary. But im concerned about the debate therefore becoming all about the moderator. And, you know, sometimes facts are fungible. People are still debating, whether Candy Crowley was correct in the obama romney debate by talking about what it was the president said pertaining to benghazi and did he use the word terror the day after. I know you know of what im speaking. So its not always so clearcut. Given what howard stern interviewed about donald trump, that was a clear instance. So matt lauer should have said something. I just dont want to open pandoras box. Right. No, i dont disagree with you. I dont think every time somebody says something its up to the moderator to factcheck it. But i think that was a very glaring instance. Were in agreement on that. And so and then the other part of my objection to Chris Wallace has to do with a Conflict Of Interest on its face. Which youve already youve already referenced my letter. Roger ailes advising donald trump, also rupert murdoch, Chris Wallaces lawyer. Look, if jeff zucker was advising Hillary Clinton and also being paid by cnn, cnns critics would be squealing like stuck pigs and be right to do it. This is wrong on its face. Optically, it stinks. So i think the Debate Commission has a particular Chris Wallace problem they need to address. Let me do something that matt lauer didnt do the other night. Let me challenge you on that assertion for a moment. Okay . Because you presuppose that ailes has some leverage of Control Over Wallace at this stage which i think is entirely absent and to the extent hes being given any money by murdoch at this point, it was only to show him the door. So i dont think that holds water. Im not presupposing whats going on inside fox news. I dont know. Ill give you that. But just on its face, the arrangement is a Conflict Of Interest arrangement. Journalists are constantly hitti Hitting Politicians for optical problems. Why cant we hold journalists to the same standard . The point is, we actually dont know whats going on inside fox news. But we do know on its face that roger ailes is playing this dual role and its just a matter of Public Confidence in these debates. Both sides, trump and clinton, are going to be in agreement that the stakes in this election are extraordinarily high. And so i think we need to go the extra step there, and its on the commission to make that decision. But i think the extra step there to ensure Public Confidence. And at least have wallace acknowledge all of this so, you know, in the debate, so that people can make up their own minds. Final comment or question for david brock. Youre pretty sophisticated guy when it comes to these political matters. Is what youre really doing here setting the bar for wallace and youre Planting A