Unborn, we have got to guard this moment. This is our watch. And again, i am so, so very proud of the judiciary committee. Im so very, very proud of the Intelligence Committee because they went in and tried to pull out the facts so that they could paint the picture so that america could see it. Hopefully they will not be ladies like the lady at amashs town hall meeting who says they didnt know that there was something wrong that trump did with regard in this Mueller Report. The speaker was absolutely right. She told us a little earlier that she wants to gather all the information and make sure that we have everything we need to paint that picture. Now, what the American People do with it, thats another thing. But we will not stand by and fail to give them let them
see the total picture. I, too, thank mr. Mueller for coming forward for this service to our country. Last but not least, it is so interesting that when mueller would make a decision that they liked, they said, oh, we love you, youre the greatest thing since ice cream. But then as soon as he says something they didnt like, oh, youre a bum. Come on now. We have to see through that. Thank you. Thank you very much. As we acknowledge the greatness of our chairman jerry nadler and adam schiff, i also want to acknowledge the greatness of elijah cummings, the chair of the government and oversight committee. He has really won the first case, the decision which his case we took to court. We won the case. His case was a beautiful statement on congress having oversight. Just a remarkable decision, and now, of course, the administration is appealing it. But i thank you, too, mr. Cummings, for your great leadership and where were going next. Because, as you know, the Mueller Investigation could not do the president s personal or business connections. And one of those connections could be to the russians, and thats what we want to find out. So as we go to questions, i just want to say that i think i do believe that what we saw today was a very strong manifestation, in fact, some would seen say indictment, of this administrations Cone Of Silence in their coverup. This is about the oath we take to protect and defend the constitution. But some of the actions that the
administration may have taken will see through our investigation. They have jeopardized our National Security by strengthening russias hand and interfering in our elections, undermining democracy, not only in our country but in other countries as well. Upsetting our Pre Emineneminenc democracy in the world. Today was very important. I again salute all six chairmen who have been involved in this. Now we can take some questions. Who do you want to hear from first . You guys can decide. How about a new person . Shes having a baby. We have to go there first. As a mother of five, i yield. Reporter thank you. Madam speaker, what you saw today, did it change whether or not you think the House Of Representatives should launch Impeachment Proceedings . My position has always been whatever decision we made in that regard would have to be done with our strongest possible hand, and we still have some outstanding matters in the courts. Its about the congress, the constitution and the courts. And we are fighting the president in the courts. Madam speaker excuse me . Halt. Several members told us over the course of today that they were expecting imminent action of some kind. I dont know why they thought that. They came to me and i said, i dont know why. Again, the lawsuits, we have a number of lawsuits. Do you want to speak to that, jerry . Well, the very next step, im not going to talk long, the very next step either tomorrow or friday is were going into court to ask for the grand jury material and to enforce the subpoena against mr. Mcgahn. And thats particularly
important because the excuses i wont call them reasons the excuses the white house gives for mcgahn not testifying are the same excuses for all the other fact witnesses, and if we break that, we break the law. Madam speaker, where do you stand right now . What do you need to know on impeachment to say, okay, we dont know enough yet did i just not say were waiting to hear from the courts so we have our subpoenas in the court, and the subpoenas are for information. And when we get that information, we can make a judgment. So you need a telltale sign we have several considerations. Its about what information is there. And this isnt endless. This isnt endless. Understand that. But we have live cases in the courts, we have some that are Going Forward that mr. Chairman nadler just mentioned. Just an endless but with strength in our hand to get that information. Remember that watergate was when they got the information and the tapes that broke the case. That wasnt just about changing Public Opinion. That helped change Public Opinion. But its not about me, its about our caucus, its about our country. As they say, there is a Cone Of Silence in the white house that is engaged in a massive coverup in the Obstruction Of Justice. Those obstruction of Justice Charges has been demonstrated today in the hearings could be indictable offenses by anybody else, not the president of the United States, and the president when hes no longer president. But the American People, i think if we down that path, we should go in the strongest possible way, and thats all im going to say about the subject. May i Say Something . And i know Chairman Schiff and
chairman nadler would repeat what im saying. You know, the American People in the last election, even from trump districts said, we want to make the president accountable. A lot of people loved him, they liked him, but they wanted to make him accountable. We have been stonewalled with regard to getting information, access to witnesses and getting documents. All of us have. Remember the president said, you know, im not going to give you anything, really. And so, again, the speaker is absolutely right. Were gathering information and we are met with significant force, but were plowing our way through. But all of that information piece by piece is like a mosaic. It paints the picture. You all along said there is no point in moving forward because republicans controlled the senate. Its going to die in the senate. Is that no longer your feeling . I have never long said that. I have never long said that. If we have a case for impeachment, thats the place we will have to go. The fact that i would like it to be a strong case is because its based on the facts, the facts and the law. Thats what matters, not politics, not partisanship, just patriotism. I dont care i mean, id like the senate to be responsible and honor their Oath Of Office to protect and defend the constitution, to see what a challenge this is to our National Security, what the russians are trying to do to our country. But the stronger our case is, the worst the senate will look for just letting the president off the hook. Speaker pelosi, even after
this we have these great chairmen here who know so much. Please. Im going to start asking them questions. Even after these hearings, the president said hes completely exonerated despite what mr. Mueller said. What do these hearings really change . You give me the opportunity to say this and i invite my chairmen to close. We want to have the strongest possible case to make a decision as to what path we will go down. That is not endless in terms of time or endless in terms of the information that we want. But if it comes to a point where the Cone Of Silence and the Obstruction Of Justice and the coverup in the white house prevents us from getting that information, that will not prevent us from Going Forward. In fact, its even more grounds to go forward. My colleagues . I just want to echo that. You know, mueller said something
thats in my brain, particularly now. He says, there comes a point where silence becomes betrayal. And we refuse to betray generations yet unborn and the American People. Were not going to betray them. Were accumulating information and doing the best we can. Again, with a force as great i dont know how many lawyers the president has, but hes got a lot of them. And they go against every single thing we do. And so, again, were not going to betray america, were going to do our part to make sure that we have a democracy thats intact. Jerry . The United States is a democracy. It must remain a democracy. A democracy acts through the elected officials with the consent of the people. The people cannot give that
consent unless they know the facts. Today was a watershed day in telling the facts to the American People. With those facts, we can proceed. And we face a time of great danger. Richard nixon said he thought that the president was a dictator. He said, if the president does it, that means its not illegal. President trump echoed that yesterday. He said under article 2, i, that is he, can do anything i want. That is a totalitarian picture, not a democratic picture. The United States must be saved from this. So we have to paint the picture of whats going on, a picture of someone who gladly accepted help from a foreign power interested in subverting our democratic election process, and thats what it is, subverting our election process and taking the choice of our president to some extent away from the American People. Thats what the russians attempted to do and thats what
the Trump Campaign welcomed them in doing. A president who engages in crimes, repeated crimes, to cover up these unpatriotic and dictatorial actions. This cannot go on and its up to congress to safeguard the constitution, and we will do it. As i mentioned today during our hearing, i think the story of the 2016 election is really a story of disloyalty to country about greed and about lies. And if there is anything that i think symbolizes those three strands of the 2016 election, it was moscow trump tower. It was this massive real estate project that the president was trying to consummate while he was running for president and Concea Li Concealing it from the country. This showed disloyalty to the country by seeking this Business Deal while he was running for president. It certainly showed the greed of the people involved in that campaign and an ample demonstration of all the lies that permeated the campaign and its aftermath. That to me is the story of the 2016 election. We need to make sure that is not the story of the 2020 election. And ill say this on the issue of impeachment which i view in very much the same way as the speaker. Maybe im just an old prosecutor, but before i brought a case to indictment, i wanted to make sure that i had the strongest evidence possible. I wanted to understand my case, i wanted to be able to make my case. Now, i tried an Impeachment Case in the senate about ten years ago, a corrupt Federal Judge who was convicted, so i have some understanding of what it takes to get a conviction in the senate, and i have no illusions about getting a conviction in the senate. But there are two juries in an
impeachment. There is the jury which is the senate which decides removal from office, and then there is the jury that is the American People. And im most concerned about the jury that is the American People. And before we embark on a course as significant to the country as the impeachment of a president , i want to make sure that we can make that case to the jury of the American People. One of the guide i thank our distinguished chairmen, so proud of all of them. Just following up on the last statement by Chairman Schiff, e. Pluribus unum. Thats the guidelines they gave us. They wanted to make sure we were one. As we go down this path, we want it to be unifying for our country, not dividing. Thats why we want it to be the strongest possible case. Lincoln said, president lincoln said public sentiment is everything. Well, in order for the public to have the sentiment, the public has to know. I hope you will be messengers of the truth to the public. We think today was really a milestone in making that sentiment be more informed. Thank you all very much. Thank you very much. So there you have it. Im wolf blitzer here in the Situation Room where were following Breaking News of the house democrats, as you just saw. They wrapped up about a half hour News Conference in the wake of Robert Muellers testimony before the house judiciary and Intelligence Committees earlier in the day. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said shes sticking with her relatively go slow for building a case of impeachment by the House Of Representatives against the president. The president , and you heard him live on cnn, hes claiming the mueller hearings were a complete victory for himself and the republicans, leaving the whi republicans. Leaving the white house just a
little while ago, the president combatively dismissed what he called a ridiculous hoax. However, Robert Mueller told lawmakers he did not totally exonerate the president as the president has repeatedly claimed. And the former Special Counsel agreed that the president wasnt always truthful in answering questions. Lets go to our senior congressional correspondent, manu raju, who was there at the nancy pelosi News Conference. Were getting a lot of reaction from these democratic leaders. Reporter thats right, and a lot of discussion about impeachment. This has been a topic thats actually been a significant one at a closed door Democratic Caucus meeting. Moments ago the speaker making very direct comments about impeachment and making it clear that this is not off the table. She made it clear she wants to get more information in the courts. How long that takes is still an open question. She said it would not be endless. When i asked her directly about her contention for some time that the Republicanled Senate will not convict the president , making it unnecessary of sorts,
or making it harder for the house to move forward in an Impeachment Proceeding, she pushed back and said that is not her standard whether or not the republicans go along with it, she said it is about getting information. You have long said there is no point in moving forward with an Impeachment Inquiry because the republicans controlled the senate, its going to die in the senate. Is that no longer your chief concern . I have never long said that. I have never long said that. If we have a case for impeachment, thats the place we will have to go. Reporter so she has in the past said very clearly that the Republicancontrolled Senate is a place where impeachment essentially would go to die because the republicans are unlikely to take it up. That was part of what she has been saying for some time, but pushing back there making it clear that that is not what shes concerned about is an interesting comment from the speaker. She says she does want to see what the Court Proceedings eventually draw out in terms of
information. What that exactly means is unclear, whether or not that would simply delay things even further, Court Proceedings will play out for some time. Jerry nadler, the chairman of the judiciary committee, announced they will move forward on two lawsuits today. Theyve been planning to move forward on one, getting grand jury information in the Mueller Problem r probe, and two, to try to compel don mcgahn to Hand Over Records and testify before his committee, but those could take some time, so what will that actually mean for the speaker if she will move on a green light for an Impeachment Proceeding Going Forward. We know that members of our caucus will more than likely support an Impeachment Proceeding. She says she wants the courts to play out and see where that leads on the question of opening up an Impeachment Proceeding. The leader of the house Intelligence Committee is not there, either. Sara murray has been following
all the details of these meetings. Sara, the democrats were clearly hoping mueller would provide some damaging testimony about the president. Did they get what they wanted . Wolf, i dont think they got the bombshell they were hoping for. They didnt even get a straight answer of whether the president committed a crime, whether this was meant to be an impeachment referral. Instead they got an uneven performance by Robert Mueller. With their prize witness on the stand, democrats tried to drive home President Trumps alleged misconduct. So the report did not conclude that he did not commit Obstruction Of Justice . Is that correct . That is correct. And what about total exoneration . Did you actually totally exonerate the president . No. Reporter former Special Counsel Robert Mueller neutered trumps lines of defense. There was no obstruction, none whatsoever. And it was a complete and total exoneration. Well, your investigation is not a witch hunt, is it . It is not a witch hunt. When the president said the russian interference was a hoax, that was false, wasnt it . True. Reporter but mueller may have failed to deliver the sparks democrats hoped for. Was the point of this hearing to get mr. Mueller to recommend impeachment . That is not a fair form of inquiry. Reporter mueller often responded with one word and often citing back to the Mueller Report. They questioned how well he knew his report. Mr. Mueller did not seem to have a good grasp of the report that he authored. Reporter one moment came after mueller suggested that the only reason the president wasnt indicted is because hes a sitting president. I would like to ask you again, the reason you did not indict President Trump is because of the olc opinion saying you cannot indict a sitting president , correct . That is correct. Reporter later, mueller clarified. We did not reach a determination as to whether the president committed a crime. Reporter still, if clear, the guidelines say a sitting president cannot be indicted weighed on them. It cannot be done in context of the president. Can you charge the president with a crime after he leaves office . Yes. Reporter mueller also didnt say if he would raise Impeachment Proceedings. Our conduct does not go to other ways of addressing conduct. Reporter and even though mueller said he had the authority to beach trump, he decided the inevitable delay wasnt worth it. We decided we did not want to exercise the Subpoena Powers because of the necessity of expediting the end of the investigation. Reporter mueller was more expressive in his concerns of
foreign powers interfering in the elections. He appeared disturbed for trumps prior praise for wikileaks. Its an understatement in terms of giving some, i dont know, hope or some boost to what is and should be illegal activity. Reporter and worried that future campaigns wont feel any duty to report for Election Meddling to authorities. I hope this is not the new normal, but i fear it is. Its time for the curtain to close on the russia hoax. The Conspiracy Theory is dead. Reporter and pressed mueller on its origins, particularly the dossier, which is under investigation by the Justice Department. You had two years to investigate. Not once did you consider it worthy to investigate how an unverified document that was paid for by a political opponent was used to obtain a warrant to spy on the opposition political campaign. Did you do any investigation on
that what sosoevewhatsoever . I do not expect your characterization of what occurred. How would you characterize it . Im not going to talk about it further. Reporter mueller faced pushback. I have been in this business for almost 25 years, and in those 25 years, i have not had occasion once to ask somebody about their political affiliation. It is not done. What i care about is the capability of the individual to do the job and do the job quickly and seriously and with integrity. Reporter now, wolf, mueller was uneasy talking about obstruction. He was much more forceful when he was talking about foreign interference in our elections, saying in some circumstances it is a crime to accept some form of that foreign interference, but he also seemed to resign when he said he hopes its not the new normal but he is afraid it might be. We just heard a little while ago from the president , our
white house correspondent cullen collins. Kaitlyn, the president was clearly fired up. Reporter yes, he was, wolf, and the president even came out to speak to reporters, that he was in a good mood, and he made that pretty clear when he explained how he saw things unfold on capitol hill today. Look, i think Robert Mueller did a horrible job both today and with respect to the investigation. But in all fairness to Robert Mueller, he had nothing to work with. You know, you can be a builder but if they dont give you the right materials, youre not going to build a very good building. Robert mueller had no material, he had nothing to work with. So, obviously, he did very poorly today. Reporter now, wolf, that is not the attitude the president had when he got up this morning. My sources said he was calling people, talking to them, agitated about the fact that Robert Mueller was about to be on capitol hill. But now after that performance,
the president feels that the optics were in his favor today because he didnt think the former Special Counsel had the performance he was fearing he was going to have talking about the unflattering aspects of this report. So even though the facts of this report are no different with the president now saying even though before he relied on this report to say hes exonerated, now saying Robert Mueller doesnt have the right to exonerate anyone, the president is viewing this as a win and he sees it as successful because he feels like republicans were able to successfully turn the tables on the Special Counsel, on the fbi and the doj overall, and thats not what he was expecting when he went in today. Caitlyn collins at the white house, stand by. I want to bring in shim sciutto and who has been covering the testimony today. The president sees it as a
complete victory today. Is that shocking . The president has an opinion that doesnt match what the testimony was, as well as he has an opinion that doesnt match the report. I heard comments about whether bob mueller was quick enough or sharp enough or forceful enough. The report was not undermined a wit today. In my mind it would mean the president could be indicted. That all stood up. You had dozens of republican members of the house ask question after question after question with a lot of gusto to try to get bob mueller to back off of them, and he didnt. In fact, many of the questions went to things that were collateral and peripheral. But many people engaged with the conclusions in the report, the facts in the report and all other things in the report that talked about the ways in which donald trump probably broke the law. And that remains. If someone thinks that bob mueller right Out Of The Box makes a statement about how he did not exonerate the president which undermines the falsehood that the president has been saying for a long time, and all the other conclusions in the report remain unscathed, i dont know how you call that total victory. He specifically also, jim sciutto, he made it clear that he believes the president could be indicted after he leaves office. He did. So much attention on how bob mueller said what he said, less attention on what was actually said. He made clear that the president welcomed russian interference and blid it. He made clear that problematic was an understatement. He said russia interfered to help trump because he believed he could benefit. Mueller said, in his view,
thats the case. And this is also important. He said interference is taking place as we sit here today. Weve looked 250916. Russia still tries to interfere with the the. There was no discussion of that today. In fact, the Special Counsel made clear that the president raised the possibility of making that easier by making a statement. He said, if someone came forward, i might accept it. So in what may have been halting testimony at times, the substance of what he said at the substance of this report, which was about russian interference in the election, the president aided and a betted. If it was criminal, no, but he aided and abetted, but isnt standing up to it. Who was a more effect . I think the bottom line, Robert Mueller, he didnt want to do any sort of interference today. What was clear to me in that there were certainly times he didnt have command p. Or play along and take the bait. He seemed to be very committed to staying within the four thoernz of, r. His investigation wasnt impeded even though it was still you know this a crime to endeavor justice. He sees certain parts and tries to frame it as a win, and the
bottom line, i think peoples views were set. I think you heard from nancy pelosi that this didnt move the needle in terms of democrats. The sitting president cannot be charged, cannot be indicted. If not for those guidelines, do you think the president would have been skmarjd sdmitd. No. To a person around the table, mine included, we thought it was very successful when we answered a question from ted liu which basically said, the reason you didnt indict the president was because of an lc opinion. There are all sorts of conclusions that what he lays
out in great detail, those are Obstruction Of Justice, and bob mueller has bent over backward to be fair to the president in light of the olc opinion. And although there is this weird back and forth about whether or not but for the olc opinion would he prosecute the president , i think based on the evidence in the report, based on the oddity of saying were not examining the president , and some which has come from criminal drts ermly. But for the legal, although hes not comfortable saying that in a straightforward way. What if a foreigner says, i have doithe right to have him
indicted. If hes not going to face criminal charges, this may well be the new normal. It was sobering words to hear the Special Counsel say, i fear this is the new normal. The law says accepting things of value from a foreigner is. They did not near for the new the. Hes on the intelligence community. He was asking yeses earlier. So you saw mueller explain that from the out selt. Based on what you heard today, do you believe President Trump would have been indicted if not for those Justice Department guidelines . Yeah, i believe that if
donald trump was not sitting in the white house that he would be sitting in a courtroom and he would be prosecuted for Obstruction Of Justice. I also think its very telling that bob mueller and his report and in his testimony today said that they didnt find sufficient evidence on conspiracy. He didnt say the same thing with respect to Obstruction Of Justice. In fact, he was very clear that the president was not exonerated. So it affirmed my belief that the Special Counsels report essentially served up to congress the job that it needs to do in opening an Impeachment Inquiry. Because you also saw mueller, and he did have to go back and clarify his comments. Specifically he says that his comments did not reach a determination as to whether the president committed a crime. Its very different than saying they were ready to charge but for the olc ruling, isnt it . When he had to go back and clean that up. On ted lius question, yes. Hes obviously being very
cautious and very careful and hes trying not to do the job of congress. Its clear if there is a process thats going to be undertaken to surprise the president of the United States, who is sitting in the white house, that congress has to do it and he doesnt want to lose his job. People believe there should be a process open up to make that determination. You heard nancy pelosi, the speaker, say relatively it r reiterate her go slow with Impeachment Proceedings. You disagree with her . I have Great Respect for the speaker and her perspective. Ultimately it is her decision whether we start an impeachment
inquiry or not. Weve seen the number of democrats who support the Impeachment Inquiry. Lets dig deeper with our analysts. Gloria, you were listening to all seven hours of that testimony earlier today. Do you think that testimony will have an impact in changing the speakers decision . Well, you heard her. She made it very clear she wants the Legal Process to continue. She didnt jump at the notion of impeachment any more than she has in the past. She didnt say, you know, were ruling it out. She just said, as i think adam schiff said, you want to have the strongest case. And she knows where her caucus is, she also knows shes got these 30 or so moderate democrats who won in trump districts that she needs to protect. But she didnt rule anything out. She hasnt ruled anything out in the past and she didnt rule
anything out today. How did you see it . I think the democrats got a little of what they wanted but they didnt get what they needed which was a narrative. In the morning, there was strong words from a congressman. I think a this wont move Public Opinion very much. What is your opinion, Jeffrey Toobin . I think things are exactly where they were in the morning. I dont think the people who were for impeachment got a great victory. I dont think people who are against impeachment will change their minds much at all. If you were familiar with the Mueller Report, as journal iiis tend to be, you didnt really learn that much. So if you heard for the first time Robert Mueller say, we did
not exonerate him, thats obviously its something that is in the report ifrts and this is a demonstration of television versus a 440page report. I want to get Quick Reaction from members. Congressman, thanks for joining us. You heard the dpetly. Would President Trump dair. Do you believe that the president would be indicted despite the fact you cant indict a sitting president . No, not at all. Mr. Mueller came back and corrected himself because there was some confusion about that. But in our committee he said twice that wasnt why he didnt press forth with an indictment. There wasnt anything terribly surprising out of this committee. If you remember oliver north, all of us remember that hearing, and after the 9 11 hearings we all remember i think a month from now, nobody is going to remember this hearing. There were no surprises, certainly no bombshells and not much drama. Obviously mueller clearly said the president could face charges remember. When the president claims victory today stharks more of a is that more of a victory . There are no Legal Proceedings pushing forward regarding the president. But i have to say this as well. I think the person who is most
relieved tonight is probably nancy pelosi. Because this took the air out of the sails for this push for impeachment. I think she sincerely believes it would be bad for her party if they were to push forward on that, i think it jeopardizes her chances of remaining speaker or electing a democratic president in 2020, and i think the American People after today, i think, are even less interested in pursuing impeachment than they were yesterday, and they werent very interested in it yesterday. The polling on that is pretty clear. The Intelligence Committee, congressman, was focused in on russias appearance and the 2016 in our election an important area for your committee to address . Absolutely, wolf, and thank you so much for asking that question. By the way, its not. Part of the reason reason was so we could protect ourselves in 2018 and 2020. The foundation of our democracy is built on this idea that the American People feel their vote is manipulated, that their vote counts and is being changed. If we love on restoring tharg trust. With all due respect, you believe this is a real serious problem facing the United States, russian interference . I dont mind this was attacking muellers team, so we thought we were protecting you, we spent more than a year looking that the and they had our 40
recommendations. The. Theres some concerns that we had, that once again, there are a mult that came out of the Special Counsel office, and the American People say, that doesnt seem fair that hes conducting this investigation and we have these selective leaks. I wanted him to answer me and say, yeah, this was concerning. We request how we can. Many and a source says, where is that information coming from. Do you ever any knowledge that the leaks were coming from muellers team . In most, or nearly all of
these cases, the reporters quote someone close to the Special Counsels office and they were giv given. Not p in con junjunction wite American People, not in conjunction with the information they had available, so its just a presumption to say, yeah, it came from the Special Counsel because the reporters indicate it did, and theyre the ones that have the information and only the ones that have this information. When someone from the Special Counsels office, for example, goes out and enter rlt, that person has that information as well and that person can give
mel is originating from based on these kinds of situations. Let me get to another situation while i have you. The they must be a new normal without providing outreach to the russians is that true . Would you accept dirt from a foreign source . This idea of a new normal concerns me, wolf, i think it concerns a lot of americans and not just in this area. Theres so much about the last election. We received teardown stralt ge geez. I think weve got to pull back from that. Weve got to pull back from
that. Chris james in utah, thanks for being here. As we watch this unfold, so many unanswered questions. The big question right now is where do the democrats go from here in the house of Representativ Representatives . House Speaker Nancy Pelosi wouldnt say if this moved the needle on impeachment. She signalled her position hadnt changed and she echoed house chairman adam schiff who said they wanted to have all the facts and be able to build a case for the American Public. Some news that the House Committee chairman said they would like to have him testify and they also plan to go to court to Access Grand Jury information. But i do think this is going to be a real challenge for democrats. To jeffreys point, not every american was following the twist and turn of every investigation. For him to sit there and conduct all the dots, even if its an understatement to say he didnt
do it in the most provocative way, when you think about the fact he laid out the extent of the Trump Campaign, he did not exercise Obstruction Of Justice and he confirmed the episodes to find how they want to proceed with the Testimony Mueller provided today. So jim baker, where do you think Congress Needs to go right now based on what we heard today . Well, i would start with what they have in front of them already. Look, theyre about to go on recess. Theyll come back in september. But during the month of august, i think they need to plan a series of hearings, you know, starting right away on securing our elections for the future which means in part that they need to look back and try to figure out what happened, and so you can call people in, you can have public hearings about that and discuss what did we learn from the past and how do we apply those lessons to the future . Thats one. And also look at tightening up the laws around obtaining things of value from foreign sources, especially. That was an issue in the Mueller Report. They said the law was a bit unclear in certain respects. Okay, fine. Well go back and hold some hearings that are directly focused, for example, on the meeting in trump tower in june of 2016. Focus on that. Look at the Mueller Report. How do the laws need to be changed . You can have a bunch of hearings on that. In my opinion, you dont need to wait until you have an Impeachment Inquiry to start putting this information in front of the American People in a variety of ways, and i think they could do that right away. Its interesting, ryan lizza, the president made it clear when he was asked if he regretted sitting down with mueller for a question and answer session. The president said, special coud
the right thing. Did he . They didnt think they could finish that investigation without his interview, right . He didnt pause to relitigate that. I think the problem for this hearing was the expectations that democrats set. You know, one staffer the other day said that nobody reads the book, so were going to turn this into a film or something to that effect. Well, this was not this was one of the worst Screen Adaptations that i think any of us have seen, because the witness himself was not interested in any way in dramatizing quite frankly very dramatic material in the report. So as congressman castro pointed out a few minutes ago, mueller is just not interested in doing the democrats job for them. If they want to convince the American People that the evidence in this report justifies pursuing impeachment, mueller was not there to make that case. If they want to turn some of the raw material, some of the facts fortunate investigation into madefortv drama, mueller was not there to do that for them. Hes basically saying, i gaive you guys the information. Its your job, congress, as an independent branch of government to pursue impeach. Me ment. I think they let this getaw way out of hand for what they could expect in the hearings. This is about how he saves himself. Thats all he cared about today. If you look at the sordid tweets, well, the guy didnt lay a hand on me. He couldnt. What he didnt get was mueller wasnt punching him. What mueller was concerned about, and he said it over and over again, was a living message
he was giving to the American Public is they are doing it right now. Not just russia but others who are trying to interfere with our election. He threw shade at donald trump and his team. He said his investigation was hampered by their lies. He said that Donald Trumps tweets about wiki was an understatement, they were disturbing and subject to investigation, but his whole point was sort of, okay, i threw a little shade at trump but thats over for me. What i care about is what they sent me to investigate, which is the attempts to influence the election which are ongoing. And not one comment from the president or his team about the need to fix that, about the need to delve into that. And that was his message, and the president , it seems to me, didnt care about it. But there was one dramatic moment, and we were all watching this together and our ears
perked up. The president , as you know, did answer written questions in the course of this investigation, questions raised by the Special Counsel, because Special Counsel today, the former Special Counsel robert Director Mueller isnt it fair to say that the president s written answers were not only inadequate and incomplete because he didnt answer many of your questions but where he did his answers showed he wane always being truthful . There i would say generally. How do you interpret that. Well, it was a peculiar exchange. If you look at the transcript and see what Congresswoman Demings said and the answer its that generally the president s answers were untruthful, that he lied to him, under oath. If thats true, that would be very inconsistent with how he answered all the rest of the questions over the course of the
day. So im not sure that means what we think it means. But if it is its a pretty extraordinary statement that the president lied under oath in the Mueller Investigation. Which potentially is a crime. You know, jim baker, the former general counsel of the fbi, how did you interpret that. Two things. One i guess my assessment as a prosecutor mueller assessed, look, im probably not i have a lot of evidence already. Im probably not going to get truthful information from the president. In if i try to litigate this and he is going to fight it its going to take me forever. At the end of the day ill end up with information that doesnt help me advance my case other than perhaps a Perjury Charge with respect with the president but i think he assessed its a Business Waste of time. Backing up, as someone involved in the Hillary Clinton email investigation, the notion that we could have closed that investigation without talking to Hillary Clinton, i mean people would have lost their minds, right. They lost their minds didnt
like the way we did it anyway. Put nag aside if we had tried if she resisted and tried to close the investigation without talking to her, getting her under oath, i dont think the public would have accepted that. Im confident donald trump would have been very angry about it. Let me get your thought, jim baker, because you know mueller. You worked with mueller. You know comey, the fired fbi director. The president keeps saying, you know what, i invited mueller in for an interview. He wanted to be the fbi director. I said no. And today we heard mueller say he went in there just to give the president advice. He wasnt being he wasnt trying to become the fbi director. He had been the fbi director for 12 years. For 12 years. I think he had had enough of that, exactly. If i could add wolf if i have the floor or a second. Lets step back. The role bob mueller played post 9 11 starting the day of 9 11 i was with him on 9 11 and years after that, that bob mueller
is substantially responsible for protecting the American People through that very difficult time. And he made a big difference and is part of the reason why there was not another attack on the United States. So i think all these comments about him and so on and so forth, some of the slams at his integrity the past few days or so is just really inappropriate and doesnt give him credit for what he did to protect the country both after 9 11 and obviously serving during vietnam. Looking back David Swerdlick on this important day, seven hours of testimony from mueller. Was it a good idea for the democrats to press and press and press to get mueller before congress. It would have been a good idea to press and press a couple months ago. Like everyone said, some information came out. If this was a bingo game they filled some spots on the card but i dont think they gave the American Public a through line here. Part of that is on the way they questioned Special Counsel mueller. I dont think it was always effective. It was only effective in spots. Part of it was on Special Counsel mueller. There were some instances where it made complete sense he didnt want to go outside the four corners of the report. Some of the other questions where he was asked for instance, you know, is flipping an important part of Law Enforcement . And he declined to answer that. That made no sense to me. There were instances he could have gone out there and simply said listen, congressman you dragged me out here let me answer your question. I know everybody mo knows him says thats not the way he operates. But at some point if he thinks its important for the ball to move forward on this i think he could have leaned in a little bit more. I think in some ways, the format was flawed. Tlfrp times Robert Mueller was trying to expand on his answer but because of the time limits they would move on to the next lawmaker. And therefore onto another point of discussion. Look, there is a lot of talk about whether or not democrats got everything out of this hearing that they wanted, in part because it wasnt really a made for tv kind of moment. Thats just because thats how
Robert Mueller operates. He was never going to come out with the kind of flair that james comey had when he testified before congress. But one of the most effective exchanges in my miepd was when house Intelligence Committee chairman used his five minutes to really have mueller piece together exactly what was going on in the 2016 election and really did build that through line where the russians are trying to swing the election in trumps favor. The Trump Campaign was receptive to help. When offered dirt on Hillary Clinton donald trump junior said if its what you say i love it. Then trump was calling on the russians to hack the emails. Pursuing a Business Deal in terms of the trump tower moscow project. Praise the wicky leeks for releasing stolen emails from Hillary Clinton and the dnc. He did paint a picture first of the contacts between the Trump Campaign and moscow and acknowledged that both members of the Trump Campaign and the administration have been charged, many convicted of lying to the fbi about the contacts
with the russians. You know, jim baker, let me get back to you because you know the players. One of the more Energetic Moments Mueller had today was when he offered a Strong Defense of his team, of lawyers and Fisher Agents that he put together. Watch this. You must be aware by now that six of your lawyers donated 12,000 directly to Hillary Clinton. Im not even talking about the 49,000 they donated to other democrats, just the donations to the opponent who was the target of your investigation. Can i speak for a second to the hiring practices. Sure. We apostrophe to hire those individuals that could do the job. Okay. Ive been in this business for almost 25 years. And in those 25 years i have not had a occasion once to ask somebody about political affiliation. Its not done. What i care about is the capability of the individual that do the job appear do the job quickly and seriously and with integrity. Whats your response, jim. I thought that was a particularly strong moment. I think overall, look, i mean the republicans have been trying to attack the investigation and the fbi investigation, the Special Counsel investigation for a long time. I think that fell flat today. I think that line of attack from a variety of different folks on the committees just simply didnt get anywhere. I was grateful to see him do that. And i think it was one of the finer moments. That answer. Could i say. That answer was one of the longest statements he made. He just did not talk that much. It was a lot of monosyllabic answers. Imagine if he had had that amount of energy and the strength of his opinions when talking about some of the damning parts of the report. I think thats when alt a lot of people watched thatten a say why didnt he do the same thing about the obstruction of Justice Charges . Why didnt he do the same thing about some of the evidence he built against the president and for whatever reason he just decided that was not his job. And i thought at times it looked
like he wasnt backing up his own report. Everybody stand by. Stand by, everybody. Because there is more news we are following. I want to end all of this tonight where we began with the allegation of russian interference in the election. Russia is reacting tonight to what we heard from Robert Mueller. Our Senior International correspondent Fred Pleitgen is joining from us moscow. What are you hearing over there, fred . Hi, wolf, the russian reaction is similar to President Trump obviously they believe this was a big victory for President Trump. It was interesting to see because On Russian State Run Media they were saying the democrats were trying to twist muellers arms as they said for several hours to try and get something new out of this. But they feel in the end nothing new came out of it. One of the interesting things wolf that the russians have been saying, Vladimir Putin in particular he praised the Mueller Report because he said it was an objective document but get this the reason he does is because the russians are falsely claim that the Mueller Report that the russians had nothing it
election meddle willing listen real quick to what was said on one of the top political talk shows tonight on this topic translator he already gave them the report which says russians have nothing to do with it and trump doesnt matter here either. But nevertheless they have been talking to him for hours even though we havent learned anything new from this. And russia, i quote is guilty terribly and systemically though not clear what it is guilty of. So the russians essentially calling of in a hoax and certainly Vladimir Putin doesnt seem to fear any backlash from President Trump if indeed there was any sort of meddling in future u. S. Elections. You recall the two men met a month ago in japan at the g20 where President Trump in front of Vladimir Putin was asked whether he would ask Vladimir Putin not to meddle in the next election. Trump said said dont meddle the election. Vladimir putin was chuckling. I assume he is chuckling
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