candidates? erin burnett makes the leap from cnbc to cnn. what's her take on coverage of the ailing economy and how will her new show compete in an opinionated landscape? and news outlets can't get enough of the trial of michael jackson's doctor and others can't care less. we'll have a diagnosis. i'm howard kurtz, and this is "reliable sources." maybe the governor of new jersey will jump in and completely shake up the presidential race, or maybe the chris christie flirtation will turn out to be just another brief comment across the media galaxy. move over, romney and perry and bachmann and cain and santorum, journalists have a new heartthrob. >> is this the man who can defeat the incumbent president? he could have ended all the talk about running, but he didn't. >> people who are down the middle, just everybody around here is talking about chris christie jumping in the race. >> no means no. or does it? another full-throated denial from governor chris christie, but does anyone believe him? >> i talked to a close englewood visor to the new jersey -- close adviser to the new jersey governor and he said only christie knows what christiey is doing. >> sources say he is reconsidering his earlier, emphatic statements, george, that he is not going to run. >> so why can't the news business take no for an answer? joining us in washington, lauren ashburn, former managing editor of "usa today" and contributor to "huffington post." david frum of frumforum.com. and john avlon, senior political cluft eliminate for "japaneseweek" and "the daily beast." -- "newsweek" and "the daily beast." lauren ashburn, what does it say did the state of campaign coverage that so many journalists are -- i'm not going to shy away from this -- panting for chris christie to run? >> we are a.d.d., that's all i can say. you know, everybody in the news business will admitted lie say we have attention deficit disorder. if somebody new pops on to the screen, my gosh, the cameras turn immediately to that person. we get bored with romney and perry and bachmann. we know their story! we get bored with people running for people. christie himself pointed to the political man the gentleman. we plied -- plan the gentleman. he played that where he said no way, i'll kill miemz first. the coverage is will he or won't be as opposed to his record as governor. >> in defense, it's picking up on where the republican party is. although the republican party has an adequate field and if you like the candidate that chris christie would be, you've got a candidate in mitt romney. the problem that journals are picking subpoena that republicans have this program which is mitt romney is the logical person to nominate. likely the most electable, and -- >> nobody's excited. >> and if you believe it what president obama did for the american health care system or if you've been saying for three years it's the greatest threat to american freedom since the threat of nazi invasion, it's difficult to turn around and nominate somebody who did very much the same thing at the state level. so journalists have picking up on a self-inflicted republican problem that's preventing them from nominating the logical guy to nominate. >> we have been through this with sarah palin, is she going to run, and haley barbour and mitch daniels and donald trump who ran for three weeks. media always seemed more interested in the reluctant candidate. where is that? >> they do. i think it's kind of self-indulge self-indulgent. first of all, it's easier to worst. this -- christie's cycle has been ridiculous. not only sherman-esque, but i'll kill myself before i run. >> beyond sherman-esque. >> right. we do a good job of covering a horse race, not such a good job of covering governing. there's an additional bizarre-o level where we're more interested in covering candidates who aren't running than those who are. it's deeply unfair to the folks doing the hard work of putting together a campaign every day. i think this has gotten absurd. it doesn't serve the democracy well. >> a lot of the coverage has focused obviously on christie's shall we call it blunt style of which there are -- no shortage of examples. let's play a little of that and ask you a question on the other side. >> talk -- gail, first off, it's none of your business. i don't ask you where you send your kids to school. don't bother me about where i send mine. i sat here -- stood here very helpfully listened to you. if what want you to do is put on a show and giggle every time i talk, then i have no interest in answering your question. [ inaudible ] >> you know, tom, you must be the thinnest skinned guy in america because you think that's a confrontational tone. then i -- you know, you should really see me when i'm pissed. [ laughter ] >> what would that look like? lauren ashburn, you wrote that women, at least this woman, had a different reaction. >> and other women -- >> perhaps have a different reaction than male pundits who think that is great, that confrontational, in your face -- >> japane >> these guys laughed. i don't think t's appropriate for a leader to be talking about how he's pissed and when hurricane irene hit, he told everyone to get the hell off the beach. it was like a breath of fresh air, now it's a good boyfriend. you tell your girlfriend, you don't want to marry him, do you, she marries him anyway, and then you say, see, it didn't work out. >> then tell me why the population is celebrating this as an authentic and natural and non-blow dried approach. >> here's the reason i think there is some legitimacy to this. you get a person who has been in the system, who maybe has been running for president, has been doing that for two cycles, maybe three. and they're airbrushed. they're polls, they have shaped themselves to what the public thinks of them, and you don't get an authentic person. you don't get somebody who says "get the hell off the beach." >> every syllable is poll tested. the media find it endearing, it could be a liability. for example, governor christie appointing a muslim judge to the state bench, which people thought was a bold move. then he says, "i'm tired of taking criticism from all the crazies out there." some of the crazies who vote in the republican primaries may not like that. >> and the media forgot that republicans really care about the gun issue. the republican primary voters really care about the gun issue. >> and the immigration issue. >> one of the under-reported facts about chris christiey is he has a record as an advocate for stricter gun control. and it's understandable that a governor of new jersey would have that view. you're on the i-95 corridor with all of that drug smuggling and strong police unions who want to see stricter control. but when the republican primary electorate discovers this, they may discover we care as much about that as we do about what romney did to health care in massachusetts. >> and then you get in the cycle of building up a candidate and tearing him down. anyone in law enforcement in big cities has a different approach to guns than someone dealing with it theoretically in terms of playing to the base. that's the first bit. i don't know it's a gender issue. i think people are starved for authenticity from politicians. i think they want someone who's going to call it as they see it. that is so refreshing in today's overspent, overscripted, blow dried approaches to politics. >> there is a poll that does show that from the time that he was elected until basically now, among women he's gone from 46% approval to 36% approval, and one of the reasons that the polling director said so adequately that that's -- that that's the reason is that, you know, a lot of women don't like belligerent men. and that really is what he is. >> we're -- the new jersey public sector, it's -- we tend to when we discuss these things, ignore the fundamentals which is tough economy, budget cuts. pressure on school funding, all of those things are very important. >> and also -- they are -- >> he also said the teachers union, you know, that their complaint are crap. >> well, and also the teachers union has compared him to hitler. >> before we get too deeply into the record, i want to bring this back -- journalists said that rick perry twhoub fabulous candidate. he got in a couple of debates, now he's not getting, say, rave reviews. i'm struck -- just this morning i picked up "the new york times," here's the column, the round and the oval, but chris christie and his weight. we have gene robinson of the "post" telling him to eat a salad and take a walk. i'm not saying that nobody should mention the fact that christie's overweight. he's talk good it. but all of these columns -- the guy may not run b. whether he's too fat to be president. >> it's a serious issue, though. >> it's a serious issue? >> of course it is. this is all about perception which i don't know if he's learned yet. you know, take a look at mike huckabee who lost all of that weight. i think that people want in a leader someone they can look up to. to your point, john, i -- i really believe that we loved that oprah couch moment. you know, we love about people, politicians, people who sit down on the oprah couch and say, oh, my gosh, i've done something wrong. we love to build people up who have failed. and -- or who have said i'm not running and now i'm running. >> there's also a contrast here between politicians in the tri-state area around the media capital and politicians from elsewhere. you mentioned perry. so chris christiey is so obsessively covered that even his weight, which ought not to be any factor being discussed. meanwhile, rick perry, his record of how he -- questions of like how he made his money, what business deals did he do. those have been covered by a few small papers in texas. we had a piece on our side about this. texas is such a weak media culture, with respect to texas reporters. it doesn't penetrate. and if perry emerges, if he becomes the nomhe, he is going to be exposed to a national press. he's going to be interested in asking questions -- >> as in texas -- >> didn't penetrate in texas about business dealings. >> coming back to the weighty issue -- forgive me -- the column, he goes on to say he has struggled with weight himself. he had bulimia. it's something everyone can relate to. at the same time, i can't help thinking, john avlon, that this is so easy. the kind of thing that can be debated on "the view" and "oprah." it's harder to look at what kind of governor has he been, his immigration position, gun-control position. feels self-indulgent. >> it is self-indulgent. >> i'm glad you agree with me. go ahead. >> we're debating weight because it's easy. maybe that makes his relatable to other issues. but it's not relevant to his governing style, his record. it's not relevant to what kind of presidential candidate he would make. this is the spin cycle. this is the tail wagging the dog. this is what we're doing too often in politics. >> for women -- think about it, though. if this were an overweight woman who was running and men were attacking her for her weight -- that's true. >> i smell a double standard here. >> my two cents is if you look at all this coverage, we are acting like teenagers with short attention spans. journalist are sick of the romney vs. perry, two-man storyline. it went on for weeks. nothing new to say. there's more focus on chris christie's weight than dealing with new jersey public employees or those things. the whole campaign, it seems, going back to trump, to palin who's supposed to decide this month, she didn't, is almost coming across as entertainment. before we end, herman cain says the media are trying to create a storyline by sucking chris christie into the race. i don't think we have the power to do that. >> sheer, we do. >> we can convince a guy who said i'm not running to run for president? >> no, you said sucking him in. why is he saying, gosh, i might? he's toying with the media. >> because big money people are saying "you have to run." and some are your friends in the conservative pundit movement, people like bill crystal, dying for him to get in. crystal has a slogan already -- a big man for a big job. >> because they're trying to escape the gravitational pull of the romney candidacy. that from the point of view of conservative pundits, if romney runs, it raises questions over things conservatives have been saying about health care for the past three years. because suddenly what was the death of freedom becomes actually innovative public policy. and that's embarrassing. >> part of it is, too, that people don't know a lot about christie paced on the fact that they haven't been reporting a lot about christie. >> so there's a wonderful blank slate everyone can paint on. we'll tell you he didn't run, and therefore, the whole thing was a waste of time or i could be wrong. let me get a break. when we come back, is fox news trying to move toward the center? and should roger ailes be meeting privately with republicans who want to be president? uh, it is, yeah, it's a chevy volt. so what are you doing at a gas station? well it still takes gas to go farther. but you're not getting gas. true. not this time. uh, don't have to gas up very often. so you have to go to the bathroom? no. yes you do. thought these were electric? yes, it's a uh, a chevy volt. so what are you doing at a gas station? but not in my neighborhood. ♪ [ female announcer ] we're throwing away misperceptions about natural gas vehicles. more of the vehicles that fuel our lives use clean american natural gas today. it costs about 40 percent less than gasoline, so why aren't we using it even more? start a conversation about using more natural gas vehicles in your community. there are, of course, plenty of conservative voices on fox news. but roger ails told me that the network has been undergoing a "course correction," edging away from the hard right focus of a couple of years ago when glenn beck was calling president obama racist and fox was playing out the tea party rallies. now some fox hosts occasionally defend the president. >> do you think barack obama's the worst president in american history? >> i'm not enough of a historian to tell you the answer to that. i can tell you that i think he's been a very poor president. >> the failure you talk about, he got osama bin laden. he's dead. the drone program's downgraded al qaeda's ability to do anything. he has kept most of the bush stuff in place. rendition, guantanamo -- >> john avlon, would you agree that fox has edged a built toward the main -- a bit toward the mainstream the last couple of years? >> i think he defended the rise of beck by being more dependent than was well served by it. in terms of ratings and credibility. in terms of the network, you do almost have a parallel with the primary dance. they played to the base in the opening years of the obama administration. now they're trying to attack center allegedly -- at the end of the day, ailes' strategy has been the same, it's positive polarization. he's been running the same play effectively for a long time. >> ailes is pretty good at reading public opinion. the tea party's not as popular, people are fed up with most parties endlessly fighting, all the gridlock. that might be reflected in the tone of fox news. >> i think also that the later days of the glenn beck television show, the man did begin to walk up to very scary precipices in american life. >> yeah. >> and i think it was that -- i mean, it was hard to watch, for example, glenn beck's series on george soros. a lot of people aren't fans. when you suggest that the finance year is the mastermind behind world political events and attack him for helping to support democracy in central europe because farer right central european -- eastern european politicians don't like that, i think a lot of americans draw back from that. i wouldn't be surprised if roger ailes had the same reaction. >> right. hence he's out of a job. >> well, he left voluntarily, he says. but ale also acknowledges that he asked his commentators to tone things down after the gabby giffords shooting when this was a lot of public revulsion, i think, incendiary talk on both sides. >> that's very true. that's admirable of him. i mean, one of the things that i think people always confuse, too, and you mentioned this before, is the opinion hours at the end of the evening. and the news at the -- during the show. and during the normal -- during the day. yeah, the normal hours. and, you know, i think that take a look at bill hemmer's show, for example. "america's newsroom." i was in the control room just last week. and they're not asking, oh, is this right? is this right, should we put this on the air? politically speaking, no, they're asking, is this news? >> and as part this piece, i spent some time with three fox news anchors, chris wallace, megyn kelly, and bret baier, trying to devise the toughest questions for the debate in orlando. i think in the last three debates they've been credited with being fairly aggressive toward the gop. >> the first fox debate in particular, what -- they had strong questions were and were criticized by rush limbaugh for having two strong questions. >> he said fox was trying to suck up to the mainstream for msn approval. let me ask about meetings that ailes admitted to me that he had. he says he wasn't giving advice. certainly chris christie. he had dinner at ailes' home in new jersey. romney, per have met privately with ailes. here's some of the things he told me. for example, rick perry hasn't given any tv interviews except for one. "the press," says ailes, "will set a trap and ask who is the president of uzbekistan and run with that for a week." and another, "the way they're playing it in the mainstream is that he was a jesus freak." and another, "the mainstream press will give all republicans as always as a precursor to cutting them off. saddens me. america used to be able to get straight journalism." >> he defines straight journalism by the fact that saying, and i think you pointed this out, that journalist is liberal and to the -- journalism is liberal and to the left. his idea is balancing the liberal. >> he says, "we are the balance." if you see every outlet is leaning left, you feel like you are helping to balance that by putting on more right-leaning voices. >> right. quickly. i mean, this point matters enormously. the whole core idea was that it took conscious bias to balance out the unconscious bias of liberal media, right? that is the genesis of this. there's something very scary about that idea. that conscious bias can balance unconscious bias. and you have the rise of the partisan networks, polarizing the profit. that's been the game they have played from the beginning. >> including msnbc at night? >> yeah, you credit cycle of incitement. the echo becomes. that becomes -- >> they spend time attacking each other. >> right. >> you're also seeing, john wrote a book about the history of the newspaper column. america's going back to what it had in the 19th century, a partisan press. and it wouldn't have surprised anybody in 1850 if horace greeley were having dinner with the various candidates for the wig of the republican party because he was running a wig or republican organ with no pretense to being a fair newspaper. and network -- cable networks, msnbc and fox, are going in that direction. they are voices of the party, and they act like party tools of organization. >> does it cast doubt because, of course, ailes 20 years ago had a republican politics -- when you have meetings on the people who you say here are my journalists, bill hemmer, chris wallace, and they hired ed henry from cnn. does it cast out for the business, we having meetings -- or is there nothing wrong it? >> you know, i think that the people have to kiss the ring. they feel l