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but someone forgot to tell cory booker. he's what he said on nbc's "meet the press" on sunday. >> this kind of stuff is nauseating to me on both sides. it's nauseating to the american public. enough is enough. stop attacking private equity. stop attacking jeremiah wright. this has got to stop. >> booker has since dialed it back calling obama's ads on romney reasonable. i'll talk to another man about being reasonable. newt gingrich. plus an interview on marion jones. about the olympic triumph and the doping scandal that sent her to prison. >> i realized laws in prison, in solitary in particular, that being number one and marion jones meant nothing in there. >> and only in america. robin gibb with a moment that changed his and hollywood's history. we begin tonight with our big story. joining me now a man with a fascinating view of the campaign, formered the newt gingrich. mr. speaker, welcome back. >> good to be with you. >> i'm gripped in fact by what you're about to tell me of what you make of the bain capital fury given you hammered mitt romney in the ground over this. what do you think of what cory booker said? >> well, i think booker is telling the truth about how the american people feel. i'm very surprised that president obama went down this road for two reasons. first, we found out when we got in a fight with mitt romney over this that it didn't work. that people understand free enterprise. people understand sometimes you succeed, sometimes you fail. but they refuse to take a one-sided view of it. i think governor perry will tell you when he tried to use it, it didn't work. when i went head to head with mitt over it, it didn't work. i think what booker is saying is the truth. there's a deeper reason. how can you be the president with the worst unemployment record since the great depression? the longest period of deep unemployment since the 1930s, and pick a fight over job creation. i mean, there's a point here where this becomes ludicrous. and in effect what obama's saying is the government investment is smarter than private equity. if you look at their track record of losing billions of dollars on various solar companies. $2.1 billion on one company alone, you'd have to say obama is a bad venture capitalist. he's doing it with your money. for better or worst, romney was taking a risk as a private person with private money in the private sector. obama has been throwing our money as taxpayers away and our children and grandchildren's money in the national debt. i think this is a bad argument for president obama to be in the middle of. >> i must say, i am very touched and moved by your stoic defense of mitt romney and bain capital. let's play first of all what mitt romney has done today. he's turned around cory booker's words as you would imagine. watch this. >> have you had enough of president obama's attacks on free enterprise? his own key supporters have. democrat mayor cory booker of new jersey. >> i have to say from a personal level, i'm not about to sit here and indict private equity. >> even obama's own supporters have had enough. >> it's nauseating to the american public. enough is enough. >> now, first of all, i presume you wouldn't dispute this is pretty damaging for barack obama. that one of his top supporters appears to have gone rogue here. whichever way you try and spin it, what cory booker said in terms of it being naseaing and so on was a direct challenge, many people felt, to president obama's challenge on bain capital. >> basically said he agreed with booker. here's a practical reason. you're the mayor of newark. you're in the shadow of wall street. you have lots of jobs coming into your city, lots of investments coming into your city. you don't want to see them turned off by the president's attacks. cory booker was described what i think is a big reality for him as the mayor of newark that that free enterprise system has been creating jobs, paying taxes, improving his city. by the way, he is a terrific reform mayor. this is one of the up and coming stars of the democratic committee. but i can report having lived through it, the ad the romney people just released is effective. one thing we discovered we could never make clear an attack on a particular case and romney's ability to say no this is about free enterprise. and the average american looked up and said it's about free enterprise. and it turned out that particular argument simply doesn't work. >> let's take a little trip down memory lane. let's play an ensemble of some of your previous views on romney and bain capital. >> he's not a conservative. it's a joke for him to call himself a conservative. it's a "saturday night live" kit. maybe governor romney should tell us how much money he's made off of how many households that have been foreclosed by his investments. if he'd like to give up all the money he's received from laying off employees over his years at bain, then i would be glad to then listen to him. >> i could have been listening to president obama there, couldn't i? >> that's -- but that exactly was the point i made at the very beginning, piers. having seen those, you would think that president obama and axelrod and others would say gee, that didn't work. and the fact is objectively, it didn't work. >> hang on. i can't let you get away with this. it may not have worked, but that doesn't mean you didn't believe it. do you actually believe what you said in those attack ads or do you believe what you're now saying to please mitt romney? >> no. first of all, what i'm now saying doesn't contradict those ads. i think there are things you can legitimately look at in bain capital. i think there are things you can legitimately look at in anybody's record including mitt romney's record. what i'm reporting to you is the question you asked. i don't think it's politically effective. i think for the president of the united states with the worst unemployment record in modern times to attack a businessman over job creation gets him exactly into a fight that obama doesn't want to be in the middle of. we're describing whether or not it's effective as a political question. is it a legitimate question? of course it is. is anything about any candidate out in the open? of course it is. that's perfectly legitimate. but it's not effective. >> private equity per se, do you think it's a force for good or a force for bad for the future -- the immediate future of the american economy? >> i think private equity creates more job than it kills. i think it creates a much better future. look for example at facebook. look at the whole rise of google. look at the rise of microsoft. look at the rise of apple. the fact is the free market system -- this always amazes me about left wingers. the free market system creates more jobs, has raised more people to middle class status. has given more people a chance to buy a car, a cell phone, a house, an ipad to have hospital insurance. go down the list. >> how are you going to attack left wingers for this when president obama who may well be watching this, i'm sure he does of course. but if he sees this he'll say i know what i'll do, go back to the newt gingrich attack ads about how bain wrecked people's lives and cost hundreds of jobs and start putting them out in the way that cory booker did. i would. >> sure. and he can. and i'll make two points about it. first of all, a discussion about a particular company or a particular decision is not an attack on the free enterprise system. you asked me about private equity in general. private equity in general is a force that has been overwhelmingly more effective than creating jobs in history. i would pick private equity every time. companies that use private equity get richer and countries following -- he's thrown away billions of dollars of taxpayers money because it turns out bureaucrats don't make good venture capitalists. between a general argument about private equity which is what you asked me about. i think it's perfectly reasonable for the news media, the president, anybody what wants to to look at bain capital. what i'm reporting to you having lived through it, it doesn't work effectively. and doesn't if you're the president with the worst unemployment record since the great depression. so -- >> let's just -- i take your point on that. you've made that a few times. let's move to your campaign which came to an end of course a few weeks ago. you owe $4.8 million. how are you going to pay this off? how does it work? >> you go around and ask a lot of people for help and over time you pay it off. hillary clinton ended her campaign $27 million in dead. she's now down to $25,000, i think. i had two small events in georgia over the weekend. we raised some of the money. we have more events in the future. anybody watching we'd love to have them go to newt.org and have them donate. we're getting pledges to help pay it down. we're going to keep working at it. and we'll get it paid off. >> are you hoping that given your stoic defense of bain capital mitt romney may help the debt as a gratitude. >> i would not object to anybody who believes in free enterprise donating to help us pay it off. but i also don't do anything to get that done. i'm happy to take care of my own problems and work on the campaign. i believe and i said this aggressively. if your choice is barack obama or mitt romney, if you're a conservative you have no choice. you're for mitt romney. period. end of story. the choice is so decisive i can't imagine any conservative that won't vote for romney in november because the alternative is to unacceptable. >> it's been a delight having you back. i've missed you. looking in fine form. >> good to be with you. when we come back, is anybody playing fair in this campaign? a top republican and democrat face off. to me mitt romney takes from the poor, the middle class and gives to the rich. he's just the opposite of robin hood. >> the latest obama campaign stepping up attacks on romney and bain capital. here to look into it hilary rosen and margaret hoover. welcome. let my start with you hilary. is this the obama strategy, you think? >> it's certainly one of them. first and foremost, president obama has to campaign on his vision for america going forward. but there's no question that mitt romney is kind of walking away from his governor of massachusetts and telling the -- based of his experience. i think the obama campaign is completely fair game. >> hang on a second. how does it look for someone like cory booker who has been one of obama's staunchest supporters, a leading democratic figure, a hot rising star as newt gingrich put it. for him to turn on barack obama in this way. and he definitely did. whether he tries to back pedal now. i'm a big fan of his, to say it was nauseating and to really take him head on on what is clearly going to be one of the bigger obama attack weapons against mitt romney was a fascinating split, i felt, in the democratic hierarchy. what did you make of that? >> it was but i have empathy with cory booker and misspeaking the first time he talked about it. >> hilary, it's me you're talking about it. he didn't misspeak, did he? >> well he explained further in his video what he meant. here's where i think it comes down. i don't think either one of them are wrong. both the obama campaign or cory booker for this fact. what private equity has done, yes as a function and the president talked about it today. it's an important economic engine in this country. but there's absolutely no question that private equity and its successes have contributed to the disparity and wealth in the country. >> let me turn to margaret. the problem for the republicans is that while that's great cory booker did what he did, when you see me interview newt gingrich there's a local issue. newt hammered mitt romney exactly on this point week in and week out often on this show. now has to sit there with a straight face trying not to laugh saying actually it's all great. i lot it wrong. >> and the truth is. the numbers wore out. he did get it wrong. because the electorate really backlashed at him. it didn't pay off. if anything, we had a moment of honesty from gingrich. >> the real, was a result of good capitalism. mitt romney had more money to spend than gingrich. $4.8 million in debt, romney bursting with cash. >> and when they went into florida, mitt romney trounced him with the dollars because he had ads on the air. newt gingrich started those attacks in south carolina, won south carolina but got pummelled in florida by mitt romney because of that argument about private equity. >> but that's not who the appeal >> that would be a terrible tactic. that didn't work with the republican electorate and it's not going to work with the american electorate if the american electorate is looking for the guy who knows the economy and knows how you have -- what will it take for the government to create an environment where businesses are thriving and succeeding in america. >> let me ask you one thing. on the point if it's a mistake for barack obama to do that, i don't think he'll see it as a mistake. i think he'll see it as an opportunity to take the heat off cory booker. he'll say look what newt gingrich said. >> well, margaret's right. it backfired with the conservative intelligence. but the independents who do not feel the current system is is on their side. and they're looking for politicians who understand what they're going through and are thinking in the big picture about how to make their lives better. and the point that i'm making about private equity isn't a damning indict of private equity as president obama explained today. >> hilary, let me let margaret have the last word. >> this is the real point about this argument and what's shock k about it. the private equity argument was introduced into the debate as a character assassination against mitt romney. he's the guy who made these poor workers lose their jobs because of the vulture capitalist system he participated in. now democrats are going to walk back their argument to qualify that. >> the bottom line surely is it doesn't actually matter. the bottom of equity is some is good and some is bad. what matters is cory booker taking on barack obama. thank you both very much. we'll be back to debate this over the next few days. coming up, from olympic hero to inmate. marion jones talks about the doping scandal. it's an emotional interview. ♪ ♪ why do you whisper, green grass? 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[ male announcer ] citibank mobile check deposit. easier banking. every step of the way. with london gearing up for the summer olympics in ten weeks, vowing to make these the cleanest games ever. one person who knows how difficult that will be is marion jones. she won five medals at the 2000 games in sydney only to lose them all in the wake of a steroid scandal that put her behind bars in 2008. this is her first primetime interview since she came out of prison. welcome, marion. >> thank you. >> does that sound weird to you even now? even having your name associated with the word prison. it does to me because i remember the sydney olympics. you running like the wind. this incredible athlete. and you were just so inspiring and brilliant. and when i have to even read those words, i feel bad. you know? never mind how you must feel. >> how do you even put it into words. it has been now three years since i left prison, and it's still not easy to comprehend. i search for the right adjective to describe who -- i certainly never would have thought ten years ago that my life would have taken the turn that it had. and that it has. and so, yeah, it's still hard when people describe my history and my situation. it seems like it's somebody else. like you're not talking about me. you're talking about some other person. >> there's such an extreme that you've had to endure. you've gone from champion, olympic champion, multiple olympic champion to felon. and the gap between those two positions in the public estimation and your estimation is massive. >> and it's hard for people to grasp the -- everything that happened. i think when people saw me on television and then they meet me, they're like how in the world can this all happen? but i try to tell people that anybody can make a mistake. and certainly mine was massive. and it was in the public eye. and i've been blessed with this ability to community and connect with people. so people feel like they know me. so when they have to talk about the situation, it's hard for them. when i travel, i'll be honest. when i travel people come up to me and say i just want to give you a hug. we feel bad for you. they don't know why, but they feel bad for me. so the journey has been a rough one. but i am happy to say that i'm finally at a place where i'm at peace, if you understand that. i made some horrible choices in my past. >> what was the single worst moment for you of the whole thing? >> the single worst moment was sitting in solitary confinement on my boys' birthdays and not getting a chance to talk to them or hold them or hug them. and knowing people might be surprised by that. it wasn't having to give back my medals. it wasn't the scandal. it wasn't all that. it was not -- it was, i think, disappointing the ones that loved me and cared for my and supported me and cheered me on knowing that i hurt them. that, to me, was the single -- and it's what i deal with every day. that doesn't go away. and, you know -- >> how have you dealt with that? you had two kids young at the time. >> one was turning one and one was turning four. >> too young to really understand. >> uh-huh. >> so even now, are they aware of what happened to you? >> no, they're not aware. we've been pretty open with my oldest who's eight years old. sharing with him certain things. but they don't really understand. we plan to certainly be -- when we feel they're ready, share certain things with them and share the story with them. but in my household, we teach our kids that we all make mistakes. like mommy makes mistakes. i'm not -- and i'm not an exception. but it's what you do after the mistake. do you try and cover it up? i made the unfortunate choice to try and cover it up and i made things a lot worse. do you cover it up and then get mom and dad really upset with you or do you come and tell us what you did we deal with it and we move on. so when i talk with young people now, that's what i tell them. you're going to make a mistake. be prepared. but do the right thing afterwards. >> i guess my attitude towards it -- i've never met you before today -- it's probably like most people's. is that having theired your dream and this amazing olympic dream you had. and to find for want of a better phrase you cheated in some way, what i'm curious about is what your emotional journey has been with yourself through that process. just tell me. >> wow. it has been a complete 360. i certainly think that i got caught in a wave. that's how i describe all this. i got caught up in the wave of fame and fortune and people telling me, patting me on the back and telling me how great i was. and ignoring red flags. >> how intoxicating is it if you -- i watch so sublimely arrogant. and you know he's loving every second. but you know that in itself can be dangerous. you've been in that position. how intoxicating is that