and only in america. the '80s obsession. this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. our big story tonight, the santorum surge continues. and there's a woman as always behind the man and the surge. karen santorum. i'll ask her about tough talk like this from her husband today. >> let's just be brutally honest about it. there's one candidate in this race that can never make this race about freedom. because he simply abandoned freedom when he was governor of massachusetts and he abandoned it when he promoted obama care in 2009. >> plus on the eve of the illinois primary, the battle for the soul of the gop. can mitt romney eventually seal this deal? i'll ask scott brown. >> newt gingrich wants to build a colony on the moon. he should build it on whatever planet ron paul's from. >> we begin tonight with my exclusive interview with karen santorum. who joins me now. how are you? >> hi, piers. it's good to be with you. >> last time i spoke to your husband he said this key strategy going forward was less rick, more karen. >> oh, funny. >> before we go any further, i actually want to play you a little clip. let's just watch this. >> karen will be on a cnn interview tonight. she's doing an interview by herself with piers morgan tonight. say a prayer. i've been told by so many people throughout the course of this campaign, the more she talks the less i talk, the better i do. >> i was a bit worried by the booing going on. but the fact they all prayed for you, do you feel now you've been strengthened by the power of prayer from that audience? >> that's good. i always appreciate the prayers. >> tell me about how your husband's getting on. last time i spoke to you, had a personal interview with you and your family. and the full riggers of this campaign hell were beginning to kick in. how do you think he's fairing? >> he is so optimistic. he's a guy who stays strong. he just amazes me. i've known him a very long time. he's not the kind of guy who gets down and out or loses his energy. he's the eternal optimist. he's staying strong and i just love that about him. he's a really neat guy that way. >> he looks like he's got his gander up. which is a sort of euphemism for he's beginning to beat his chest with the expectation he's gone from the outsider to someone who now thinks you know what? i could actually win this. >> it's so exciting, piers. he did hundreds of town hall meetings. when no one believed in him, he kept at it. he loves grass roots. he loves going and meeting with people and talking about the issues and hearing about what's on their minds and sharing his ideas. and hearing other people's ideas. that kept him going. and he draws strength from things like that. so now, it's very exciting to watch this unfold and see what's happening. and, you know, it's been a wonderful journey. >> last time i spoke to him was about ten days ago. he looked very fit to me. then we saw these pictures from puerto rico. let's have a look at this picture. now, we're not exactly talking -- >> oh, you don't have to show it, piers. >> there's a bit of work to be done here, isn't there? >> i'm working on it, piers. i said you need to start taking more steps and fewer elevators. >> let's move on to more serious issues. one of the big things that's gripping the whole race at the moment is this question of women's rights or women's issues. and john mccain was pretty strong on meet the press. there's a perception out there because of the way this contraception issue is playing out. we need to get off that issue, in my view. we ought to respect the right of women to make choices in their lives. what did you think of that? >> exactly. i completely agree. and the unfortunate thing is when rick was asked the question, he said these are my personal beliefs. and the press kept asking him the issue about it again and again. rick is brilliant with national security and jobs and health care. and for some reason the press wanted to keep going back to it. what it is, it's not an issue about contraception. it's an issue about personal freedoms. and the fact that the government should not be making people go against their conscience. we all have -- i think most people in america respect freedom of religion. and i think the real issue is not forcing people to go against their conscience and do things that they really don't think is right. >> when you said you agree with everything john mccain said, do you agree with him saying we ought to respect women's right to make choices in their lives. >> it depends what you're referring to. absolutely with jobs, contraceptives. we feel different ly. with women wanting to be in the workforce or at home. with how they choose to live their lives. get married, be single. you know, there's so many different decisions. so i don't know what john mccain was referring to. but i would agree with him with that. >> i think he was specifically talking about the issue of contraception which has been so dominant. i know that because of your catholic faith, you have a strong position on this. you've also got young daughters, of course. people will say how do you feel about changing times? they're going to grow up. they're going to grow up in an era which is -- contraception is widely prevalent amongst young women in this country. many are thinking if rick santorum becomes president, what does it mean for me? is he anti-women? anti-us having contraception? >> not at all. >> what is his view? >> i'm a registered nurse, a lawyer, and author of two books. when i was doing my book tours, rick was the one home making meals and cleaning the kitchen. he's been 100% supportive of me and my dreams and my career. it was my decision to stay home and be a mom at home. some day when i go back to work, rick will be 100% behind me. so it makes me sad that the media tries to do that to him. they try to make it look like he is something he's not. rick is a great guy. he's completely supportive of women. he's surrounded by a lot of very strong women. i think women have nothing to fear when it comes to contraceptives, he will do nothing on that issue. i think the issue was when i said about the religious freedom issue and not allowing the government to be intrusive in our lives and force us to do something against our conscience. >> when you say he'll do nothing on the contraceptions issue, do you mean if he was to become president that he would basically respect a woman's right to have contraception if that's what she chose to do? >> absolutely. and he has said that. >> i mean, that seems to me to be a pretty fundamental conclusion to this debate. that's what people have been saying. would rick santorum bring his personal religious beliefs to play as president? and from what you just said the answer is not necessarily. >> not in that area -- no, absolutely not. and again, the issue is the government forcing people to go against their conscience. that's really the issue here. that we're referring to. >> now, let's move on to what he told me when he was last on the show. he said after he came out with the snobbery, you rang him up and gave him an earful. let's watch this. >> i can get wrapped up about how important this country is to not just providing a great future for our children but also for the world. and sometimes i get a little -- you know, say the wrong word. as you know, you know my bride very well. usually the phone rings very quickly if she isn't there in person to say, you know rick. >> come on. how often do you pick that up and say rick, you shouldn't have said that? >> well, we talk a lot throughout the day, piers. we talk many times about the campaign and what's happening. i'm a news junkie. i'm on the trail with rick now or at home taking care of the kids. it's a juggling act right now. but we do that. i think it's part of the joy of being married. where you're always talking things over and correcting each other or talking about how you could have done better or what you should have said or what you maybe should not have said. >> you've had to put up with as a family tough times. i discussed this when we met. i found it profoundly moving. how is your little girl at the moment? it must be an agonizing conflict on a daily basis. putting the campaign one side, the health of your daughter on the other. >> bella is doing great. thank you for asking, piers. i appreciate you asking. she is such a beautiful, sweet girl. and she's healthy. it's funny reading articles. when people would actually write about my little girl and they really aren't accurate with her at all. people say she has a terminal illness and she doesn't. her life is fragile, but bella's doing great. she's strong. she's healthy right now. i thank god for that. we have so many people praying for her. but some day i want you to meet her. some day i'll bring her to you. >> i would love to. >> she's a very joyful child and has taught us so much. it is a juggling act. definitely a big juggling act right now with trying to juggle family life and taking care of a special needs child. i'm her caregiver. rick and i take care of her. we didn't get a night nurse until much later. and it's -- you know, we had to get some sleep. when i'm there during the day, i love taking care of bella. she's just a sweet, sweet angel. i feel blessed to be her mom. >> you should. and she's very lucky to have you, too, i think. >> thank you. >> we discussed earlier about rick's reputation. maybe portrayed by the media as being maybe slightly anti-women's rights. you obviously love him very much. if he becomes president of the united states and there's going to be a chance now this could happen. if he does, why should american women also love your husband? >> well, because he's a man who cares deeply about the heart and soul of america. and he cares deeply about all people. 100% of people. the rich, the poor, the in between. men, women, children. people with disabilities. got a real passion for that at the santorum house. but women, rick has done so much legislatively to help women. he's a man of deep faith, a man of conviction. and he's a man of courage. he's consistent. a lot of people say, you know, rick, i don't agree with everything you say. but i like you and i'm going to vote for you because you're consistent. you say the same thing everywhere you go. i know that i can trust you. that means a lot to a lot of people. >> i think that's a valid point. i've got another guest coming out in a moment. senator scott brown who came out with this little joke at your expense. the first time he's ever used protection about the secret service. did you find that funny? were you offended? do you want me to kick him? >> well, you can do a little bit of those. he's -- sometimes you just have to laugh. i've reached a point now where i shut out a lot of things because i know it can be nasty. i continue to pray and i ask my children to pray for the families out there in this campaign. because it's hard for everyone. i thought that was sort of funny. sometimes you have to just laugh. and other times you just sort of shut it out and ignore it. >> well, i'm going to bring him out now. we'll confront him with his own humorous demons. >> thank you. >> thank you so much. good luck with the campaign. it's tough on all the families and you do a terrific job for your husband. everybody respects that. thank you for joining me. >> thank you. good to be with you. coming up, a man who stirred things up with his joke about rick santorum. let's bring him out here for a public flogging. >> announcer: this is the day. the day that we say to the world of identity thieves "enough." we're lifelock, and we believe you have the right to live free from the fear of identity theft. our pledge to you? as long as there are identity thieves, we'll be there. we're lifelock. and we offer the most comprehensive identity theft protection ever created. lifelock: relentlessly protecting your identity. call 1-800-lifelock or go to lifelock.com today. i see both newt gingrich and rick santorum now have secret service with them on the campaign trail. in santorum's case i think it's the first time he's ever used protection. yeah. >> i laughed myself. massachusetts senator scott brown. having fun this weekend at rick santorum expense. but for conservatives issues on the contraceptions are no laughing matter. will the culture wars cost the gop? welcome back. >> good to see you. >> you heard mrs. santorum. i think she wanted me to give you a good kicking although she was trying to find it funny. >> that's an event that's historically -- people who are politicians try to be funny. sometimes it works. sometimes it doesn't. i took a whack at everybody. gingrich, santorum, ron paul, myself. a lot of the elected officials in the audience. but it was all in good fun. >> i'm pretty excited about this. "esquire" has done a huge profile on you. but you haven't seen it yet, but i have. i actually have it here. and what is fascinating is the stuff that comes from your wife. >> uh-oh. >> which is brilliant. because she says this about you. i feel it's really difficult for people to see the whole picture. when i see pieces about him, there's always one little aspect of scott brown. i understand. because scott is complex. he's not just the regular chocolate. he's the chocolate with all the n nugat and the caramel and the nuts. >> what does that mean? >> the chocolate with the nugat and caramel and nuts. what do you think she meant? >> i think when you're dealing with sound bites you don't get the full picture of someone who's been married for 25 years. so 27 years, you get to know somebody. not only the good but the bad. we're a team. and complexities. we try to work through our own idiosyncrasies. that's why we been married for so long. >> she sounds fantastic. >> she's a great lady. >> brilliant anecdote here. she proposed to you. on bended knee in the middle of the street. >> in providence, yes. >> of the last moment of you being together. that takes some doing. what were you thinking? >> it was oh, my gosh. i remember there was a construction site in providence and all the guys were looking down saying say yes. say yes. and it was something we still joke about. but we have a very special relationship. i'm the luckiest guy. >> she wants -- you were going to go out for the evening and she was a little bit late as is a woman's prerogative and you were moaning about this. >> still do. >> and she eventually came out to the car stark naked and said is this okay? fantastic woman. >> well, listen. first of all so people know, we live in a dead end cul-de-sac. it's difficult to see the house. she came out with the clothes underneath her. she jumped right in the car and it was funny. but even now when i get money, i say you're late again. she says you better watch it or i'll get naked again. >> i would be late every time. what i love most about the detail is you drove for 20 minutes before stopping to allow her to dress. good work. >> listen, it was a little bit -- she was covered up obviously. but the point was that i'm always complaining about her being late and she was trying to make a valid point which is to relax once in awhile. >> what was interesting about the interview was very ferociously defensive of you. very protective of you. but this whole debate about women's rights and the republican party. you heard my discussion with karen santorum. it's a contentious issue. probably more than the party would suit it to be. where people's religious beliefs have become the dominant factor in the debate. you've got young daughters growing up. >> sure. >> who are beginning to challenge you as a political figure and their dad. you're going to face a lot of these issues. you are very much on the more moderate side of the social issue debate. do you agree with john mccain? it's getting completely out of hand and actually become being destructive to the party. >> i believe there are good people on both sides of every issue. i believe in women's rights. i live in a strong house full of strong accomplished women. and on the debates that folks are bringing up right now, we need to focus on the things that matter. the debts, deficit, spending, and national security. the social issues, there's good people on both sides of those. >> interesting for karen santorum saying if rick would be president, he would respect a woman's right to have contraception if she wants to. i don't think i've heard a santorum articulate in such a straightforward matter. >> i'm with mitt romney. he's one of the most hard working, honest men i've met. i don't know the other candidates at all. i've never met rick. but i know how i feel about those issues. and i've been in favor of contraception rights for women. really i think it's important to make sure we have religious protections as well as providing rights and freedoms for women. we can do it in the federal health care bill. we didn't get into this mess until the president through the overreach of the federal government said by the way all the religious institutions and schools and churches, by the way, it doesn't matter. you're going to have to do it anyway. in violation of their religious faith. i felt it was important to stand up for that to say we've done it in massachusetts. we provide the religious protections and the coverage for women that they deserve. >> we've got to go to a commercial break because your ipad is beeping. this gives me an excuse because -- this is fantastic. your screen saver is actually you and gene simmons from kiss. you are a man of many surprises. we will come back after break and talk to you about what you've got to do with gene simmons and mitt romney. >> here we go. we always hear about jobs leaving america. here's a chance to create jobs in america. oil sands projects, like kearl, and the keystone pipeline will provide secure and reliable energy to the united states. over the coming years, projects like these could create more than half a million jobs in the us alone. from the canadian border, through the mid west, to the gulf coast. benefiting hundreds of thousands of families throughout the country. this is just what our economy needs right now. if you want to fix a broken economy, let me give you a piece of advice. it is something i think of regularly when i think of my challenges here in washington. if you want to fix something that's broken, especially dealing with economic policies, you have to listen to governor mitt romney. >> scott brown introducing his mentor in 2010. may be a double edged sword. i'm back now with scott brown. mitt romney, you've put all your cards on him. and should be the runaway favorite. in terms of delegates, he's way ahead. yet there's still this sense he may not win the nomination. that rick santorum and his endless surge may actually grab the public opinion in a way that your man can't. what's the problem? >> you'd have to speak to mitt and his team. he's one of the most honest, hard working men i've met. for those folks who thought it would be overnight, they're wrong. i never thought that. remember when hillary and president obama went until june. it's the third week in march and it's going to continue to go on. i'm hopeful and confident that he will continue to work hard and ultimately get the nomination. >> another problem is rick santorum conveys an air of authenticity. when i've interviewed him, he resonates to the viewer or voter at home in a compelling way. he tells good stories about his upbringing, his family, and he definitely has a way of bringing his personality forward in the way that mitt romney struggles to. do you accept that? is it an issue that it frustrates you he can't get that side over? >> coming to economic issues, there's no one i would trust more than governor romney. we need people who are going to make tough decisions and have the experience to get us out of this economic mess we're in. so i'm going to continue to do my job and he's going to continue to run his race. i've been doing exactly what i said i was going to do which is be that independent voter and thinking. >> what is the side we don't see of mitt romney? i mean, i'd love to see it on the show. i keep inviting him back. he keeps avoiding me. put a good word in. what is the side to mitt romney, the moments the public aren't seeing that you think makes him perfect to be president. it can't just be the guy's good with money. if that's the case, anyone in wall street could become president. that's probably not true at the moment but you get my point. can't just be his fiscal excellence. >> he's got a great sense of humor. he's a devoted family man. he cares very deeply not only about my state but this country and where we're going economically and into the future. we're in a financial emergency. we're buying 32 cents of every dollar. the debt is up to 15.3 trillion and rising with no end in sight. sometimes you need somebody who's just focused on the economy. they don't tell a lot of jokes. they're not trying to yuck it up. this is serious times. we need serious people. that's why i'm supporting governor romney. i'm going to continue to do my job and he'll do his. >> can we talk about your beeping ipad? according to twitter it was beeping. what it gene simmons singing through the screen? >> no phones, no ipad. >> cool enough to bring an ipad on and it goes berserk. what do you know of gene simmons? >> i went to a concert. i've been a kiss fan since i was a young boy. i had an opportunity to meet him. he was very knowledgeable about middle east politics and the status of what's happening over there. it was fascinating, really, to meet with him. >> i did a season of the apprentice with him. he was very knowledgeable. let's just talk about president obama far moment. because you have been billed as mr. bipartisan on a congress that is at war. tell me about your role in trying to knock over this problem. >> well, first of all, there are plenty of ideologues and partisan folks there. you need people who will work across party lines. there's no democrat bill that will pass. there's no senate bill that will pass. that's the reality. that being said, i read the bills. i understand them. i see how they affect our country and deficit and i vote. i will work with any person of good will who comes to the door that wants to address these real issues. there's no surprise that the last bills passed have been mine. with the stealth tax against contractors. most recently the insider trading bill. those are all things i worked on. >> we were seeing a clip. let's see that again. it's you haranguing the president. in fact, what you were saying to the president was my insider trading bill is on harry's desk right now. tell him to get it out. and the president said i'm going to tell him. i'm going to tell him to get it done. how's your daughter? you said good. how are you daughters? it was very nice. hello, hello, how are your daughters. but in the middle of it, business. >> of course. i'm there to do the people's business. i take that role very seriously. if i have an opportunity to have one on one time which he has a lot of people around him, i'm going to tell him. and that bill was on harry reid's desk. a lot of bills are on harry reid's desk. that was perfect. to think that members of congress can get away with insider trading and not go to trading, that's unacceptable. >> it was extraordinary to me that they were all apparently filling their boots. and there was no law to stop them. >> it now applies once we get it out. and i'm hopeful we will finally sign the entire bill. get it passed because it's in conference right now. i'm encouraging them to get it out to the president so he can sign it. i'm hopeful the president will have a signing ceremony to send a powerful message. another bill i just filed were folks in the administration in federal government need to pay their back taxes. i think it's upwards of a billion dollars. why can't they pay their taxes? yet they want to tax more and more people. makes no sense. >> the violence against women cause. you had various men in your home and abuse to your mother and you. talk about this. >> certainly it's personal to me. i think before i answer that question i think it's important that if there are any women listening right now which i'm sure there are because you are a very good looking man. >> thank you, senator. >> seriously. all kidding aside, if there are people listening and they're in that situation, an abusive situation, like i was and my mom was, they should know they're not alone. because i'm here. i'm working. there are other members both democrat and republican in the united states congress that are listening. and there are many groups that are available that weren't available for my mom. so it's something i signed on to quite a few months ago. i take it personally and i'm excited to try to get it pushed through. this really shouldn't be a democratic or republican thing. it should be a people thing about caring and protecting people. >> you're doing a great job of that. those who are trying make it a partisan issue should be ashamed of themselves. it's about protecting women who are involved in domestic violence. >> i remember as you've heard in my book, battling my mom's husband. biting the inside of his leg as i was getting pummelled and one of my stepfathers battling in the hallway just beating the crap out of each other. rushing home, borrowing a motorcycle, whatever i could do to get home to help my sister and my mom from the death grip. and so it's personal to me. anyone who tries to say anything differently quite frankly should be ashamed of themselves. >> good for you. let's take another break. let's come back and talk about keeping america great. i want your ideas for how america doesn't become great again but maintains greatness. >> amen. 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>> yes. >> because i'm running for re-election. if he wants to help me he can go to scottbrown.com and do just that. >> i remember when you came on before and told the whole story of massachusetts and winning that seat finally from the democrats after teddy kennedy left the stage. after 30 years. against all the odds. i've watched you since. you start to think this guy is getting serious. he's thinking in his mind this may be the time coming up now. next two or three years. decision time. >> the only thing i'm deciding is what we're going to have after the show to drink. >> you're buying. >> of course. i didn't expect anything less. listen, i am trying to get re-elected. i think it's important to have me in the senate right now especially because of the gridlock. working across party lines and being that bipartisan factor. the fact we did the 3%, the insider trading bill, we just passed the highway bill. by looking and doing a lot of those very important things. i'm doing my job. >> massachusetts is one of the states that's approved gay marriage. how do you personally feel about that? >> well, quite frankly everybody's moved on. >> do people care that much? i mean, those who argue against it say it's like the end of civilization. >> some people care. and others have moved on. concerned about how they're going to pay their mortgage. both people. gay and straight. they're wondering how to pay their mortgage. and if their families will come home safe traveling around the world. we've moved on. i encourage everyone else to move on. it should be decided state by state basis. i'm focusing on those other things. >> the republicans don't want to be in position say if it is mitt romney that wins the nomination, you don't want to be squabbling about issues. >> that's what the president would like to do. take away from the fact that we are at record high debt and deficit. that we're borrowing 42 cents on every dollar. that the post office is having trouble. that there's so many things that are happening that are coming to fruition. we need to move quickly. by the end of this year, this country is going to be in difficult shape. me and others, people of good will, are trying to push our leaders and push the administration to kind of start to focus on these. >> what do you do if barack obama gets to october and says look, i told you i would rescue us from the terrible mess the republicans put us in. and guess what? the jobless figures are now the best they've been since maybe two or three years before i came along. you know, he would have maybe seen gas prices go back to normal. house prices. say the economy generally -- >> that would be wonderful. >> would it be wonderful? would you say that's wonderful. or would you say you're still a disaster. >> i have commended the president when he's done well. and i also respectfully disagree with him when i disagree with him. i make sure we don't have the rush limbaughs hammering away with the discourse. i'm not going to be hammering the president one day and asking him for help on an issue the next day. we need to work together now. >> i agree with this. >> whether you like it or not. and gas prices, they're rising. home ownership, prices are falling. the if we do nothing, we're going to be like greece and other countries. >> how do you keep america great? >> we need your debt and deficit under control. >> unless you do that, what else do you do to maintain america's greatness in the world? >> you need to create jobs. you need to create an environment for jobs. i have a crowd funding bill. for people to give up a a thousand dollars to avoid secretary of state filings. to move forward to create a new set of financing for a start up business. that's where the jobs are. >> what about my constant nagging problem with a company like apple. they sold 3 million of the new ipads in one day. they are making squillions of dollars and they have more employees in china than america. why don't they bring them back? i'd say they'd sell 4 million ipads next time. >> have the president of apple on. >> what do you think though? shouldn't it be the successful companies -- >> there's a lack of stability right now. people don't know what's next. there's this wet blanket right now over people. so much indecision. the high corporate tax rate, the high cost of health care and what's happening with that. it's draining businesses. the medical device companies are getting crushed by the medical device tax that's part of obama care. that's why i voted to repeal it. for massachusetts it's crushing massachusetts. >> wouldn't it be nice if a company as phenomenally successful as apple say we are taking the lead here? because they're creative geniuses. i love all their products. i don't like the fact they employ so many more people outside of america than in it. >> listen, that'd be great if they would come back. you need to make it competitive. you need to create an environment to hire and grow not only in massachusetts but throughout this country. and when you're paying a 35% corporate tax rate compared to ireland on 12% and the lower cost of health care and unemployment and energy. they have an obligation to their stockholders. i'd love them to come back. amen. bring them. come to massachusetts. >> senator, we are in agreement. come back again. >> well done. that's it. >> that's it. >> that was easy. >> you have so much more to say, right? >> i do. >> that was easy? senator scott brown, thank you very much. coming up, is america's culture war distracting from the real issues of this campaign? now i bring in the new york time's frank bruney for his assessment. 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