springsteen and he doesn't even like you. >> i like him. so it unrequited love. >> does it really matter in politics? >> we don't take any victories in politics. every day when i come into this building, it still amazing to me. i have a sense of wonder. i save how the hell did this happen? how did i become governor? you shake your head about it. >> this piers morgan interview starts now. >> thank you for inviting me in here. four pictures of bruce springsteen and he doesn't even like you. >> i like him. it unrequited love. but i got to hang with it. >> talking unrequited love, i know for a fact you've been watching your show because donald trump told me. you had dinner with him and you told him. my favorite question is how many times have you been properly in love. which leads me to the fu fundamental issue about mitt romney. why are so many people of his own party not properly in love with mitt romney? >> i think he's a very reserved guy. in the time that we're in right now, which is a very tumultuous, angry, emotional time, at the moment reserved is not what the primary electorate seems to want. i think it lab real asset to him in the general election as times are tumultuous and tiempeople looking for a president, not just a nominee. and they want someone who they believe will fight the president. i think governor romney will do that on the issues. they seem to want something more emotive at the moment. i think that ebbs and flows it and it will eventually come back his way. >> but what you're seeing is a real battle for the heart and soul of the republican party and clear choices are emerging. not just on policy but also on character and on the very passion you just hinted at because i sense that one of the reasons rick santorum is gaining such momentum is not necessarily that he is in reality more passionate than mitt romney or that he cares more, it's that he sounds like he does. a lot of romney supporters say to me why isn't he giving more of himself to us? why isn't he beating his chest more? why isn't he giving us more passion? why doesn't he look like he wants this more? >> i don't think anybody can come to the conclusion he doesn't want it. this guy works incredibly hard, extraordinarily hard to get out and meet people and win votes. i don't think it's that. again, there are certain personalities. you interview lots of people. i would not be called the reserved time but romney is. i think people need to get to know him more. i have told him i think it benefits him to get out there more, let people see the family side of him, see him as a father, a husband, a grandfather. when you see that, you see the enormous compassion he has, how much he cares about his kids, his grand kids and their future. >> i think you make a good point. it is that lack of personal stuff which is giving rick santorum a bit of a benefit. he's out there, he has a strong family, he's a catholic like you and, again, the criticism i hear about mitt romney compared to rick santorum, it was summed up by "the economist" magazine that said rick santorum comes over as more you a tentic. mitt romney comes across as somewhat slippery. their word not mine. >> i think they're wrong. i don't think he's slippery. i think hissish views evolved over time and we've admitted that. and i think we do want people who are always reevaluating positions and issues to make sure it's something they're still comfortable with and willing to fight for. >> but here's the problem, the lesson we learned is we will no longer abandon and apologize for the policies and principles that made the country great for a hollow victory in november. now he's banging that drum and i think he's banging it quite successfully to many conservatives. what he's saying is i am true to my principles and they're conservative principles. if you study his record, it's very hard to find much evidence of what some would say is opportunist being flip-flopping. >> senator santorum has also been one of the biggest spenders in washington, d.c. and was a part of a huge spending spree while he was in washington and trying to bring tons of money back to pennsylvania. so let's not go overboard with this he's true to his core conservative principles. i could point out a number of ways that rick has at times varied from that. now he would argue -- >> give me a few examples. >> he would argue, on the other hand, that that was his job as pennsylvania senator was to try to bring money back to the state. i would say that was one of your jobs but don't try to argue to me on the other hand that that is a core conservative principle. here's my view of it. i believe that you should never compromise your principles, but i always believe that there is a boulevard between getting everything you want and compromising your principles and the job of the leader is to negotiate the vehicle on to that boulevard and move it down so we can make progress. romney will do that answered think he'll do it better than anybody offering himself for president right now, including the president, who has proven he can't do that. >> be honest, the moment you heard the following words out of mitt romney's mouth, did do you what the rest of us did and went what? "i am severely conservative." >> i wouldn't have used that phrase. you can't have it both ways. you want people to be spontaneous and speak from the heart. at times that means words will come out of your mouth that weren't perfect. if you want something that's perfectly rehearsed, if you want a theater performance, go to the president. united states. he reads off the teleprompter, he gives a theater performance. if that's what you want, if you think that's genuineness, then he's your guy to vote for. i happen not to. i'm out there enough unscripted. i know once in a while word come out of your mouth that you would have liked to have picked better. but people are picking on mitt romney now. he used severely. i wouldn't have used it and i guess he wouldn't either but what's the difference? >> well, the difference is that many people in the republican party actually think the long thing is is severely conservative and that's himself problem. but they look at someone like rick santorum and they think he's indisputably severely conservative. and that comes back to my thing at the start about the battle over the heart and soul of the party is which way is the party instinctively now going to go? >> i think you have to look at the sum of someone's record. i looked at the sum of governor romney's record answered believe he's the best person to lead our party and the best person to lead our country through these difficult times. >> you know him better than many people. when i last interviewed you, i was pushing you to do what everyone in the party was desperate for at the time was for you to say i'm going to run pip think would you have been a very serious contender. but you chose not to for reasons we discussed at the time. what are the characteristics of romney that are not getting over at the moment that you see when you speak to him privately that persuaded you to put your reputation behind him? >> one, he has integrity. two, i think he's very smart. three, i think he cares deeply about the issue. four, i think he has the experience as an executive to turn ideas and concepts into reality. all those thins are incredibly important. and lastly i absolutely do believe that this guy is a conservative and that he will govern in a conservative way for the future of our country. and so there are five things that i see and i think a lot of other people see, too. we all get into this hyper, heavy breathing that we go through about the last election, the last time people voted. you know, mitt romney's won a state convincingly like florida that is a microcosm of our entire country. and i suggest to you that in some of the other cases where senator santorum won, he didn't even win any delegates. this is about getting 1, had 144 delegates, who is going to get there? >> it is but it's also about momentum. you a political animal to your absolute fiber. >> thank you. >> i knew you'd like that. but you know and mitt romney will know that the incredible momentum after florida, everyone was say urk know, what february is going to be easy, home run into super tuesday, game over. looks a very different picture now you have to admit that. >> i'm so shocked that the pundits were wrong. please, i have to fall over in absolute shock. we'll need to take a moment to revive me and continue the interview. >> a moment of silence. >> they were wrong and they continue to be wrong. people will decide this election, people of the republican party, and i believe in the end mitt romney will get the majority of delegates he needs to get. but you guys have lots of time to fill on the cable news networks so you got to talk about something. >> but the santorum surge is a juicy bone. it's excite zpg well, congratulations. but it doesn't mean have i to buy it. >> but it's real. it's happening. there is a santorum surge. >> he won three contests in an evening, congratulations. that's great, good for him. >> you're not feeling the surge? >> no, i'm really not. you've got 10% of the delegates. talk to me when we're at 50, 60% of delegates and we can see if we've got a surge yet. >> when are the key thinks you think mitt romney is not doing or the campaign isn't doing. what's going wrong? what does he need to do to get back on track? >> you think i'm telling you that? >> you could give me a few little teasers. >> definitely not. when i have advice to give to mitt romney, i'd give it to mitt romney and not anybody else. >> if you were being criticallyly of mitt romney -- >> i wouldn't be. >> you have been. >> i haven't. >> you were when he didn't release his tax returns. >> that was a suggestion. >> there's an inconsistency. >> no, there isn't. >> people look at you as the passion part of the vehicle, that you're in his engine and you're the one giving all the passion. they need it from mitt romney. he's the candidate. he's the guy that has to somehow now find another gear. i suppose what i'm getting at is where is that gear going to come from? what have we not seen so far? >> it's going to come from inside him. and if he doesn't, he won't win. listen, the eastbound of the daa surrogate, i'm a supporter. i'll do everything i can to win the nomination and the presidency. in the end he has too win the nomination and the presidency. where will the next gear come from? it will come from right here. that's part of the reasons why we have campaigns is for people to see that and test it. i've seen it one-on-one and i believe it's there. i believe the american people will see it. but it's into the my responsibility to make sure that happens. what i won't do is get lihim elected. i can't. nor can anybody else. that's up to mitt romney. >> i want to talk to you about what mitt romney said about not caring about the poor. you care about the poor, governor? >> sure do. and so does he. >> we'll explore that in a moment. it's the only listerine® that gets teeth two shades whiter and makes tooth enamel two times stronger. get dual-action listerine® whitening rinse. building whiter, stronger teeth. in here, the landscaping business grows with snow. to keep big winter jobs on track, at&t provided a mobile solution that lets everyone from field workers to accounting, initiate, bill, and track work in real time. you can't live under a dome in minnesota, that's why there's guys like me. 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>> i don't think it's my obligation to characterize the economy as an fiasco. here in seattle, it's getting better. we've taken a lot of affirmative steps beyond what's going on in washington to put people back to work. 60,000 private sector jobs since i've been governor. the president should be judged on the entirety of his terms and if he took the steps that were necessary and appropriate right from the beginning to be able to make our economy better than what it is today. listen, i think there's going to be a real robust debate this fall on what the proper role of government is in the economy and whether or not the obama approach has been successful or successful enough and whether another approach by our nominee and governor romney would be better. >> did you approve instinctively, yourself, of the bailout of the auto industry? >> i got to tell you the truth, i didn't spend a lot of time thinking about it because -- >> now that i've asked you to think about it. >> i try to give things more thought than three or four seconds -- >> you've only given it three or four seconds thought? >> well, right now. i was working on getting elected governor in a state that had 10% unemployment, $13 billion in deficits, fee increases in the year i became governor. hi enough on my hands here to deal with here and not deal with what the president is doing you. >> i'm asking you because mitt romney has come under fire for continue tock krit calf the bailout, even when you have gm releasing record profits, clearly indicating that the bailout worked. >> well, when you have mitt romney on, you should ask him. >> what do you think of it? you don't have a view of the bailout of the auto industry? >> what i have is a view of my state -- >> i get that. >> but you're going to continue to ask. we can go on to continue to go back and forth or can you move on to the next car. >> the reason i'm asking, is i'm sensing and the reason you don't want to answer it is you disagree with me. >> i've given the president plenty of credit when he deserves it. >> does he deserve it for the bailout? >> can you try four, five different ways. i'm not going to give an opinion as something as come plens as that issue. >> is it complex ksh. >> sure it is. >> auto industry going bust. barack obama decides the way to recover it is to do a big bailout, which he does, which is very controversial and is a huge national issue that affects everybody. if gm had gone under, whatever it may be huge problems for the country. and it indisputably works. and i suppose i just would like to hear you, if you believe it, say the president was right, he deserves credit. >> i know that you would like to hear it -- >> if you believe it. >> i know you'd like to hear it. what i'm saying it i'm not giving you an answer on that because i haven't thought through it enough. my job is to be governor of new jersey. i know you think i'm supposed to be converse ant in every national topic at the moment and have an opinion on every national topic, you'd love for me to do that but i'm not going to. >> you drive a car, don't you? >> yes, do i. not anymore really. i ride in a car most of the time. they don't let me drive anymore. but i ride in a gm car. >> what is your view ideologically of bailouts? >> my view is the government should have as little involvement in the private sector as it possibly can. from a general philosophical perspective, that's are i come from. but we're not going to take the next leap, toe you may try to, into getting into the bailout. when i've had time to look at that time and study, it i'll give you a reasoned opinion for my perspective. but i get in trouble and rightfully so when you talk about this evenings that important off the cuff. i don't think you should do that. even though it might be entertaining television, i'm not going to do it. >> are you pleased it's worked is this. >> i'm plooefs people are working. anyplace where people are working, general mote oorks chrysler, caterpillar, microsoft, ibm, facebook, i'm pleased when people are working and there's jobs, look in new jersey where we have 60,000 new private sector jobs since i've become governor and unemployment has gone down over a full point. that's what i'm really happy about. >> what do you think about this issue, others don't agree with me about this, when you take a company like apple, which is one of the greatest companies ever created, one of america's great companies now, generating hundreds of billions in profit that, they employ more people in china than they do in america. is it not time that companies like apple making the kind of money that they're doing to take a lead and say we're going to take a hit, we're going to bring for argument sake 10% of that workforce from china back to america? because i always thought if they did that, they'd get such goodwill from the american public, they'd make up the money anyway. >> i think we should let business people make those decision, not government. >> i'm trying to help the jobless situation in america by encouraging big companies to take a moral, responsible lead by doing things that aren't necessarily 100% in the interest of their ever fattening share horlsd br in the interest of the national interest. >> the ever fattening shareholders are the people who have pensions who are invested in applele, the people had have iras and 401(k)s invested in apple. they have more money for their retirement and more money for their kids' education. so my point is i don't think demagoguing that piece is necessarily a good thing for to you do. secondly, if you're really concerned about that, you really want to do that, then leave cnn, be the ceo of a company and lead them in a way that's both profitable and beneficial to all the people you want to be beneficial for. i think that would be fine. >> is it not a debate that's worth having? >> sure it is. have the debate. >> that's what i'm trying to do. >> i think i'm having it with you. >> you're telling me to leave cnn and join a company. >> if you want to set policy -- >> it's not about setting policy. it's about whether enough people with influence like yourself went out and publicably called on very successful american companies to actually bring some of the workforce from specifically china back to america, by doing it in a way that doesn't necessarily fit their shareholder need for ever more profit but serves the american national interests, wouldn't that be a good thing? >> i think what would be a good thing is for to us a