it, touche. >> the case everyone's talking about. the casey anthony trial. a mother charged with an unimaginable crime. murdering her own 2-year-old. >> she told me that she had not seen caylee in 31 days. >> who is lying? who's telling the truth? and what really happened to caylee? i'll ask two people who know this case better than almost anybody else. nancy grace and dan abrams. also tonight, politicians, jaurn lstzs, and the host of one of america's most outrageous tv shows, jerry springer, talking frankly about politics, about fame, about celebrity, and about scandal. this, live from hollywood, is "piers morgan tonight." how does the phrase president donald trump sound? i suspect it sounds pretty good. especially if you're donald trump. his pizza summit with sarah palin is putting his political aspirations firmly back in the spotlight. now inbig question is will he run for the white house or not? donald trump joins me now on the phone. donald, how are you? >> hello, piers. >> tell me about pizza gate with sarah palin. what was going on there? >> well, she's a wonderful woman who i've gotten to know over the years. she called and said she was in new jersey doing her bus tour that i've been seeing and reading about. and she said, let's get together. and she came up to the apartment. and we then went with our families to a pizza place. she said, let's have some pizza. and we did. i guess the press saw that. and went a little bit crazy. >> well, look, you two are the biggest box office stars in the whole race for the white house. neither of you have declared your intentions. what i couldn't work out is this is no accident. i couldn't work out whether i should be leading in my head towards sarah palin trying to persuade you to run or you trying to persuade her to run. >> well -- >> which was it? >> it was a very interesting evening. i actually asked her, i said, sarah, are you going to be running? i don't think she's made up her mind. i think in her own mind, she's just not sure yet, but she's certainly got a following, and people like her, and i like her. and she's really a woman that loves this country. beyond everything. and she did mention to me that, you know, since -- and there's a whole vast array of reasons. but since i got out, nobody's bringing up some of the most important issues that i was hitting on hard. and as you know, the day before i got out, they came out with a poll that showed i was leading the race in terms of the poll. but i sort of had some other things going along. and frankly, i was very, very disappointed with the republicans. between what they did with lame duck -- the lame duck session was ridiculous. they really -- i mean, obama really made a comeback because of the republicans. they brought $38 billion down to $300 million in cuts, and paul ryan's plan is absolutely outrageous in terms of not only what it represents because number one, it doesn't really balance the budget, but the timing of it. for him to just sit down in that very new and very powerful seat and come out with this plan that is going to, in my opinion, cause the republicans to have a total catastrophic election, they were going to win tremendous, tremendous numbers of seats. and now i think they have a good chance of losing tremendous seats. >> i mean, what is very interesting, donald, about this, is that today we've seen this big falloff from the dow. >> sure. >> the economy appears to be tanking again. people are talking openly about a fall into another great depression. >> right. >> it seems to me that this is a pretty serious time for america. >> well, it's a serious time. and it's a very, very scary time in terms of the economics. and i'm somebody that's very good at that. and, you know, i was talking very strongly about that. but i was talking about it from the republican perspective. and when i was looking at the moves, whether it was the lame duck or the $38 billion. or frankly, paul ryan's timing. not even so much the plan. the plan i think is terrible. but the timing of this plan. why did he have to do any plan? let obama come out with a plan. and then criticize it or make it happen in terms of the way you want it but for him to come out with this plan was just -- >> can i -- let me ask you a couple of quick questions, donald. because everyone wants to know. >> go ahead. >> would you ever consider running as a running mate to sarah palin? is that something you would ever consider? >> i don't see that happening from either of our standpoints actually. you know, again, i'm looking at what's going to happen. and i have very much my eye open. you know, i told you about these three events and there were other events i've seen from the republicans. and then on top of that, as you know very well, i mean, you're the all-time expert on "celebrity apprentice," nbc would be calling me on an hourly basis saying, you know, here, take whatever you want, i mean, the show, as you know, has been a tremendous success. we had a great season this year again. they wanted me to do it. so i did that. and now we'll see what happens. but i very much have an eye on -- if they pick the wrong candidate and they very well might do it, i have my eyes wide open. >> and that would seem to me donald to be saying quite clearly if you don't like what the republicans do in terms of their nominee, you might be very seriously tempted to stand and run as an independent. >> and to add to that, i think the answer would be yes and also i'd have to see the economy doing very poorly, which it has a very good chance of doing. if the economy is doing poorly, and if the republicans pick a stiff, and they very well might, i would absolutely have my eye open. not that i want to do it. because i love what i'm doing. i do it really well. and i love what i'm doing. but if those two circumstances happen, i have my eye very wide open. >> now, let me turn to the other big story. which is this extraordinary tale of anthony weiner and weiner gate. the last time i had him on my show was in a fairly lively debate with you actually. what do you make of this? >> well, i was a little surprised by that debate. because all of a sudden, he comes out of nowhere and starts going crazy. and, you know, i've known him over the years. and i learned a lot about him that night. i was absolutely shocked. i mean, he was -- i found -- to be almost unstable. and i watched this today because i was watching between pizza gate and anthony weiner gate. i found anthony weiner gate to be a terrible situation. he obviously knows it's him. and the way he's handled it is either lying or incompetent. and either one is unacceptable. so he's either incompetent or he's lying. now, it was him because otherwise he would have said, it wasn't me. you know, he's almost trying to say, i don't know it's me. now, who would not know it's him? who would not know a picture in that rather terrible position was or wasn't taken? i mean, you know those things. so, he's really -- i mean, his answers -- >> i want to get -- >> his answers -- >> we're getting into difficult territory here, donald. would you 100% recognize yourself in a similar image? >> well, i'd know if somebody had a picture of me, you know, in that position and wearing those clothes. and i'd say, you know, yeah that's me or it's not me. and he's sort of indicating it is him, and it's a pretty bad picture. let's not kid ourselves. then all of a sudden, that gets sent over to some young woman who's at this point saying, oh, gee, she was surprised to get it. i mean, i think he's handled it horribly. i think he's made what could have been a small story into a very, very big story. then, you know, he comes out with this whole crazy excuse that he really doesn't want to go much further. it was just a joke. i don't think that's just a joke. and i think it's pretty bad when a congressman gets hacked into. >> yeah, i mean, he obviously gave a lengthy interview to wolf blitzer earlier, which when i was watching it, it seemed to raise more questions than it answered. >> i watched a couple of those interviews. and i think they were total catastrophes for him. i think it really brings into question whether or not he can ever run for mayor of new york. maybe whether or not he even keeps the position he's in right now. he's handled it very, very poorly. >> well, we've asked him to come on. hopefully, he will, if he's watching this, open invitation. let me move on very quickly, donald, to one other story that i think you've probably got an interest in. the schwarzenegger scandal. you know the schwarzeneggers well. what did you make of that? >> well, i was very surprised. i know them both very well. and i've always thought they were a relatively happy couple. i have to use the word relatively because i have seen so many so-called happy couples only to find out the following evening, they got divorced. i always thought that they had a very kind of a special relationship. and i was very surprised to see this happen. i think i was a little surprised at his choice. and i think that the whole thing is very sad actually. >> and finally, mitt romney is apparently going to be announcing that he's running for the white house tomorrow. that is the informed wisdom. what's your reaction to that? >> well, i don't know him at all. he seems not to resonate. and, you know, as you know, when i got out, and nbc made me an offer that at some point i couldn't refuse, knowing that i could always, you know, look over shoulders and see what happens. but when i got out, i was beating everybody, including him, in the polls, and it was sort of an interesting thing. he doesn't seem to resonate. he's been running for four years. he's been running really for six years. and longer. and you would think he'd be doing a lot better in the polls than he's doing right now. >> if he emerges, donald, final question. if he emerges as the republican choice as their nominee, would it make you more or less tempted to run as an independent? >> well, i'd have to see how he emerges. i'd have to see how it's working out. and i'd have to hear some of his opinions on very big issues. like the fact that many, many countries, including china, south korea, and others, are just ripping this country apart. opec. even with the big, you know, downdraft today, oil is so high. and in my opinion, this downdraft, you know, they don't talk about it, but it's caused also by opec and the high oil prices. we cannot continue to pay prices in the hundreds for a barrel of oil. we can't do it. so i really think a lot of it has to do with oil. if you remember, the last time we had the big -- the big crash, oil was up to $148 and $150 a barrel. but we're getting up there. and the same thing is happening. so don't underestimate the power of oil. >> donald trump, as always, provocative, thank you very much indeed for joining me. >> thank you very much, piers. coming up, the case that shocked a nation and the trial that's riveted it, the murder of caylee anthony. dan abrams and nancy grace take you inside the courtroom as caylee's mother faces the possibility of a death penalty. ♪ [ male announcer ] in 2011, at&t is at work, building up our wireless network all across america. we're adding new cell sites... increasing network capacity, and investing billions of dollars to improve your wireless network experience. from a single phone call to the most advanced data download, we're covering more people in more places than ever before in an effort to give you the best network possible. at&t. rethink possible. producing products that save on fuel and emissions like ecopia tires... even making parts for solar panels that harness the sun's energy... working on social activities like clean up programs on beaches in many locations... and regional replanting activities that will help make a better world for all of us. ♪ one team. one planet bridgestone. i want to turn to the strange, tragic case of caylee anthony. she was just 2 years old when she went missing in the summer of 2008. her body was found in december of that year in a wooded field not far from her grandparent's house. her mother casey is on trial for murder and could face the death penalty in a case that has electrified america. full of charges of abuse, neglect, and lies. listen to this chilling testimony from casey's brother today as he describes the smell of his sister's car. a smell other witnesses have said was like a corpse. >> what do you recall about the smell of the car? >> just that it was very potent. very strong. >> was it an offensive smell? >> yes. >> did you approach the car? >> i had to walk by to get to the door. but otherwise not by choice. >> and here now, two people who can explain exactly what's going on in that florida courtroom and what happens next, nancy grace, the host of her own show on our sister network, hln, and dan abrams, abc news. legal analyst, nancy, let me start with you because you have had an extraordinary run. massive ratings on you show. as america tunes in for the latest updates on this fascinating case. there are lots stories like this. you cover them all the time. what is it about this story that has gripped america, do you think? >> well, piers, that's an excellent question. and a lot of people have wondered about that. i think it boils down to something very simple. the little girl you see on the screen, there's something about caylee herself. her smile. her persona. we see her in video. we hear her voice. a lot of times when children go missing, we don't have the photos or the videos to really get to know them. also, piers, i believe that when you look at tot mom, casey anthony, it's almost as if the mind is tricking the eye. because you hear this damning evidence about her. and you look at her in court. she's a sweet-looking, petite, she looks pale and frail with her hair back in a ponytail like a cheerleader, and it's hard to take in and assimilate what you're seeing is not what the evidence is telling you. >> i mean, given all your experience with these kinds of things, nancy, do you think there's much doubt that she was responsible for the death of her daughter? >> well, in my mind, based on the evidence that i have heard, and i've still got to hear the rest, the defense may surprise me, but the fact that she lied for 31 days after her daughter goes missing, and now we hear in opening statements, she's saying her father is the one that disposed of his little granddaughter's body. and by all accounts, piers, caylee was the love of george and cindy's life, her grand parents. i just don't believe her father, a former cop, dumped caylee's body out in a makeshift pit cemetery in the woods to rot. i don't believe it. that mean she's leaving. >> dan abrams, let me bring you in here. from a legal perspective, i mean it does seem extraordinary she can perform this huge u-turn in defense. from being a story i left my daughter with a baby-sitter. to suddenly she drowns in the family pool. does it have any credibility when you do that kind of thing in the courtroom? >> i think they could have made a credible defense argument here. that argument would have been this was an accident. that the child drowned or the child hurt herself, or something happened where it was an accident, and casey then sort of lost it. not saying it would have been a winning defense, but it definitely would have been, in my view, a better defense than the one we're hearing. why? because at least all they would have to do then is say, you prosecutors, you prove it. you prove that the cause of death was actually a duct tape around her mouth or that somehow she was responsible for killing this child. they could have simply said they haven't proved it. instead, what they've done is they've adopted a much greater burden. it may not be an additional legal burden but it's a practical burden. by pointing the finger at george anthony and saying he molested her, that's why she lied, he disposed of the body, eltset raw, then if the jurors don't believe that, they're simply not going to believe the defense's case at all. so i think the defense has made this a much harder case than they needed to. >> yeah, i mean, nancy, that certainly seems to be what most impartial observers are making of this. what do you think the next step's going to be in this case? >> well, you know, piers, every day, the defense astounds me by what they do. for instance, yesterday, they brought up all of tot mom's, casey anthony's, imaginary friends. she has such an elaborate web of lies to cover those 31 days when she was shacked up at her boyfriend's house. from a broken down car. to the nanny's in the hospital. to i'm in tampa on work. i'm at universal studios. and the whole time, the grandmother's getting more and more upset, trying to find her little girl. but this is going to be the problem for the defense, let me tell you what the problem is. number one, back in march, before caylee goes missing in june, you got tot mom on the computer looking up, how do you make homemade chloroform? how do you turn household items into weapons? how do you break somebody's neck? they've got a high concentration of chloroform in tot mom's trunk. there on the scene, where caylee's body was found, just 15 houses from the anthony's home, you find chloroform in a container at the scene. and there was no way -- as god as my witness, piers morgan -- that they grandfather put duct tape across caylee's nose and mouth and left her out in the field. the defense has taken on a burden that they've got to prove that. they can't do it. >> dan, let me ask you, finally, just running out of time here, dan, if you were prosecuting this, based on everything you've seen and heard so far, would you be feeling pretty optimistic of a conviction? >> oh, yeah. i mean, look, the 31 days were always going to be impossible for the defense to deal with to some degree, right? which is this period where she's lying about everything. she's lying about looking for her. she's lying about why she's not spending time at home. she's lying about the nanny, et cetera. that's enormously difficult for the defense to deal with, with any defense here. the fact the prosecutors have been able to go through, day by day, witness by witness, talk about those 31 days, and they haven't suffered a major setback in the prosecution's case, is a win for the prosecution. but, again, the prosecutors still have to prove this was murder. not that she was just lying about it. but that she actually murdered her child. and i think unfortunately, the defense has at times lost that focus. on focusing on that issue and instead dealing with what i would describe as somewhat tangential issues. >> we'll have to leave it there. it's a fascinating case. thank you to you and to nancy. we'll be watching every twist and turn. appreciate you joining me. coming up, scandal, celebrity and politics from a man who's not shocked by anything. the always outspoken and entertaining jerry springer. and here now with the weather, our very own pete murtz. pete? 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