second mile announced an internal investigation today and its ceo for the past 28 years has quit. plus tonight, new questions about the judge who over the objections of prosecutors, okayed sandusky's release on bail. get this. her biography lists her as a volunteer at sandusky's second mile charity. joe paterno's name is being taken off the championship trophy. he was fired last week after he was told about one of the rapes in 2002 but apparently never told police, although he did tell university higher-ups. now pennsylvania's legislature is expected to change state laws requiring employees of universities to report the sexual assault of a child. state senator kim ward is co sponsoring such a bill. she is with us tonight. also with us is ernie allen, president and ceo of the national center for missing and exploited children. and in new york helping us with the legal issues, sunny hostin, a legal contributor to trutv. this is what you sent around to your colleagues saying help me co sponsor my legislation. you explain what it does. if your bill were the law of the land, two years ago, five years ago in pennsylvania, what would it have done to prevent what happened at penn state? >> well, the bill that i am proposing would make mandated reporters out of every employee of an education -- higher institution of education. of that's not the case right now. so therefore, anyone who witnessed what they witnessed -- allegedly witnessed, and i believe them, this would have had a law that would have mandated them to report not only to their immediate superiors, which is the present law, this legislation would have mandated them to report to the leader of the institution and the department of public welfare's child line. and that would have made it much harder for them to keep this on the inside, if anyone or anyone there suspected that something was going on. this law would have made it much harder, because they would have had to report it to a public entity. >> sunny hostin, weigh in here. obviously, as specific a change as we can get from this, we should get. as specific a requirement to learn the lesson of this, we should. but it seems nuts, forgive me, in the case of the one assistant coach or graduate assistant at the time who allegedly was an eyewitness to the rape of a child under current pennsylvania state law he's required to do nothing? >> it's extraordinary, isn't it? i mean, he is -- he was supposed to be required to report it to his immediate supervisor, and that is what he did. and that is why there was no criminal exposure for him. but the law clearly needs to be expanded, it needs to be strengthened, it needs to be tightened up and i think that's what the senator is trying to do. this is the law in the land for mandatory reporters everywhere. we're talking about nurses, doctors, educators, k-12, need to report it to law enforcement, or to a hot line. that needs to be the case across all educational authorities. >> ernie allen weigh in. the senator's bill requires if a state university employee sees this, they have to report it to their supervisor, and also to the department of public welfare. is that good enough, or should they be required -- would you prefer they be required to pick up the phone and dial 911 or call the police, not somebody who might be in an institution that's looking to protect itself? >> well, john, child protective services has specialized skills. they should evaluate these. but our preference is they report them to police. these are crimes. and in order to protect the child, we need to prosecute the person responsible. >> so senator, why not add the police? >> well, it is something i believe that governor corbett is talking about, and something we'll be talking and discussing in more depth. but today, for example, in our meetings, some senators were saying, well, if we contact the police, then you're going to have a lot of people calling for every little thing. we would like to train folks to know what child abuse is. you know, we've had a couple of hearings. the committee i chair, aging and youth in the senate has had a couple hearings on child abuse, and some of the things that are in the present law are just shocking. and it's something that we need to change. and one of the things that was just so, so interesting and just really kind of disgusting is that presently in our present law, if someone is accused of -- if a child comes into an emergency room and they have obviously been abused, a doctor saying they're abused, if they don't have a perpetrator, and a name to hook on to that, that is never recorded as child abuse. so we have been working on child abuse through the summer. we've had hearings, we've passed some bills. and we'll -- i'm sure we'll talk more in depth about the police issue. >> well, you certainly have more urgency now. and ernie, i want you to come in on that point. the senator just noted, in her view, if the child doesn't tell the doctor, this is the person who attacked me, it doesn't get recorded. how does pennsylvania stack up to the country? i want our viewers to look at these statistics. 8.3 cases per 1,000 children, child abuse investigations in pennsylvania. nationally, 40.3 cases per 1,000 children. 15% of the investigations in pennsylvania lead to reports labelling an incident as child abuse. nationally, 35%. so is pennsylvania doing something wrong? >> well, pennsylvania has outstanding law enforcement. we work with pennsylvania law enforcement every day. but you can't investigate, you can't prosecute these cases if you don't learn about them. i think strengthening pennsylvania's mandatory reporting law is really important, and it's important for every pennsylvania citizen to view themselves as a reporter. >> and sunny, is there also -- i don't know what the right word for it is here, but there is a culture here about this legendary program. it's a legendary iconic institution on campus, and now we hear the judge, who let jerry sandusky out on bail, does not disclose to anybody in advance she was involved with his charity. prosecutors object, and the judge still doesn't say, well, i might have a potential conflict here. it leads me to think that there's some culture here that we need more than new laws. we need to crack the culture. >> oh, there's no question about it. it's extraordinary. and i have the bond document here. it is extraordinary, john, that jerry sandusky was allowed bail in the first place, without any conditions. i mean, i was a child sex crimes prosecutor, and each and every time, you have these types of allegations, you ask the bail be set, if at all, very, very high. but you also ask for monday attorney general equipment. you ask for passports. you ask they not be allowed -- the alleged perpetrator, not be allowed to be within any distance of a school. my understanding is he lives right next to an elementary school. so it is just really extraordinary to me that this was the type of bail that was set. it's also extraordinary to me she did not divulging, that she had some sort of connection. we don't know what the connection is, right? she is listed as a volunteer for the second mile. we don't know if it was a one-time volunteer thing. we don't know the nature of the relationship. but because of that, she was supposed to divulge, at least to the government, and certainly to the defense team, there could be this apparent conflict of interest, this appearance of impropriety. and i've just never seen in all my years of prosecuting these kinds of cases, this type of bail package for someone accuse of these crimes. >> and so ernie, the coach was set free. he, like anyone else in america, deserves the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. but to the point sunny just mentioned, his house is close to an elementary school. he has been released on bail. what, in your view, could and should be done just in case to protect those children? >> well, certainly schools should be alert. parents should be aware of that proximity. one of the things that hopefully everyone will glean from this is the offenders who prey upon children don't match society's stereotype. they seek legitimate access to the child. we should never be surprised when an offender is a volunteer at a youth organization or a coach or a babysitter or a teacher. they -- they're in every walk of life. so parents should be alert and aware, not just to sandusky, but to all of those people who are preying on -- paying unusual attention or interest in their child. >> and senator, there's no question this has shocked and saddened and stunned your state. i want you to listen, you mentioned the governor earlier, other proposals, as well. i want you to listen to governor corbett this morning saying he believes there will be new laws, other actions taken, and he believes they'll be taken pretty quickly. >> we have to make sure that the change in the law is one that is effective, it's easy enough to take a look to see what other states have done. but i'm sure that within the next few weeks, you will probably see bills become public. i wouldn't be surprised to see if a bill was passed within -- between now and the end of this year. >> now and the end of the year. that's the governor on "meet the press" yesterday. now and the end of the year. give us a sense, senator, just in terms of if i were having a conversation with you six or eight weeks ago and i mentioned joe paterno and penn state, there is a very different tone to the conversation and the urgency in your state today. give a sense where you talk to your colleagues about what needs to be done to turn the page here, and to hopefully, hopefully have a -- teachable moment sounds weak. something that comes out of this where we could say the state and the country learn an important lesson. >> well, i think that some of the bills -- for example, the two i have here, and actually senator fontana has a bill. he's on the democratic side. this is a nonpartisan issue. i think that theirs are going to be done very, very quickly. i've had had great support today. i think half the senators have now signed on to these bills to be co sponsors, and great, great support from the leaders in the senate, senator scarnati and they have said today hopefully we can get something done by the time we're fined in december. >> senator ward, sunny hostin, thanks for coming in today. it's a horrible conversation, but something we have to have to watch out how the case is handled against coach sandusky and what changes are made in the state law in pennsylvania. this important programming note. anderson cooper 360 has jerry sandusky's attorney tonight at 8:00 eastern. up next, senator john mccain, the republican nominee for president last time. today he tweeted he's very addition disappointed in something several of the candidates who want to be the nominee next time talked about in the last debate. 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[ male announcer ] we're making people the tomorrows they always dreamed of. what can we make with you? transamerica. transform tomorrow. important developments today in what may be a crucial week in the uprising against the syrian leader al assad. syria suspended because of attacks on civilians and its refusal to talk with opposition groups. but no let-up in the killing, as you can see. reports say at least 13 civilians died today, adding to the year's death toll of some 3,500. jordan's king abdullah became the first arab leader to call on assad to step down. >> if i were in his shoes, i would step down. however, it's not if i was in his position i would -- if it was me, i would step down and make sure whoever comes behind me has the ability to change the status quo that we're seeing. and again, i don't think the system allows for that. >> the united states made a similar call for assad to step down back in august, but is there more washington could do now? joining me is senator john mccain, the top republican on the armed services committee. senator mccain, let's start with syria. more killing, more bloodshed, some tougher action from the arab league. what should the obama administration, what should the united states congress be doing right now? >> tougher sanctions to start with, john. including getting our -- the russians and the chinese to stop blocking larger sanctions through the united nations. also, encourage turkey to continue to play a leadership role. the turks have gone from apologists for syria to very strong measures being taken by the prime minister. and we ought to be helping out in as moral a way as we possibly can, providing encouragement, providing condemnation for what assad is doing. and stating unequivocally that the killing cannot go on forever. otherwise, more stringent measures are taken. but the arab league measures that were taken, i think, are very important, and we could see the same kind of thing that happened in libya, although the situation is vastly different. >> you mentioned the chinese and the russians. they don't want tougher sanctions on syria, senator. they also don't want tougher sanctions on iran. does there have to be another way that does not involve the united nations security council where those two nations consistently say no? >> first of all, the russians are going in wto, the chinese are trying to act like a grown-up super power. there's a lot of pressure points we could put on the russians and the chinese that, you know, would point out to the world that they're out of step. they're -- they are supporting the iranians, the syrians, and certainly not acting in a mature fashion. and so i think we could put a lot of pressure on them. >> a lot of foreign policy conversations in the presidential campaign of late. let's turn to that. there was a big republican debate this past weekend. i know you were watching it. if it we went back to the last campaign, john mccain and barack obama disagreed on most things, but they did agree that it was time to start working toward closing kwan tan mow bay. they did agree that certain enhanced interrogation tactics like waterboarding equal torture and should be outlawed. listen to some of your party's candidates for president saturday night. >> using those techniques we know will extract the information to save young american lives and i will be for it until i die. >> i don't see it as torture. i see it as an enhanced interrogation technique. >> if i were president, i would be willing to use waterboarding. i think it was very effective and gained information for our country. >> bachmann, cain, perry, the romney campaign said after the debate he does not consider waterboarding to be torture. what did you make of that, senator? >> disappointed. ask any military lawyer, ask any person who knows about the geneva conventions that we're signatories to. we actually prosecuted japanese war criminals specifically for the act of waterboarding against americans. and just two additional points, john. one, it doesn't work. if you put enough physical pain on somebody, they will tell you whatever they think that you want to hear in order to -- for the pain to stop. and second of all, what about our moral standing in the world? abu ghraib was a terribly damaging situation, and one that we still have not recovered from. i still want to close guantanamo bay. but the obama administration has mishandled it so badly that it can't be closed now. but the point is that waterboarding is an afront to all of the standards that we believe in, and adhere to of humane treatment of people who are human beings. and, of course, i am disappointed at the statements that were made. and, again, it doesn't work. >> you say it doesn't work, sir. do they just not get it? and do you need to have a conversation with the person who would like to be the next republican presidential nominee, or maybe you don't like this, is your party more to your right? does your party agree with them and not you? >> well, judging from the applause that you -- the clip that you just played, obviously a lot of people agree with them. again, it's a matter of the president telling the american people about the geneva conventions. and why we didn't torture prisoners in world war ii. that was because they had americans as prisoners. and why we prosecuted people for the very same act of waterboarding after world war ii was over. ask any military lawyer, and they will tell you that it is illegal. i hope they will look into the issue. >> you just mentioned, the president has had a hard time keeping his promise to close guantanamo bay and i don't want to revisit that, but i'm fond of often saying running for president is very different than being president. i want you to listen to governor romney here talking about iran at the debate saturday night. >> if we re-elect barack obama, iran will have a nuclear weapon. and if we elect mitt romney, they will not have a nuclear weapon. >> sounds great, senator. but easier said than done? >> well, i think it's easier said than done. but i think that governor romney is on the right track here. we have to make it clear to the iranians that they cannot and will not have a nuclear weapon. and one of the greatest con nun conundrums we face today is whether israel will take action. they have acted in the case of a syria reactor, iraqi reactor, and i think that this is a situation that cries out for american leadership, and we should lay down a marker on the iranians. but, again, the russians and the chinese, because we can squeeze them harder with sanctions on their banking system and their oil exports, as well. >> you were through a lot of debates in 2000 and 2008. we're watching a lot of them in this republican season. two debate's ago, governor perry in his words stepped in it. that came up a little bit saturday night. let's listen here. >> governor perry, you advocated eliminating the department of energy. if you eliminate the department of energy -- >> glad you remembered it. [ laughter ] >> i've had some time to think about it, sir. [ laughter ] >> me too. [ laughter ] [ cheers and applause ] >> last time you were with us, senator, was after a rough debate for governor perry. you suggested he get a little bit more sleep. i just wanted to close on that light note to see if you have anymore advice for him. >> i don't, except i think he did the right thing by injecting humor. americans love humor. that's why will rogers and mark twain are still two of our favorite americans. >> senator john mccain, appreciate a little humor at the end of the conversation and an important conversation about syria and other world challenges. thank you for coming in tonight. appreciate it. >> thank you. for the first time, herman cain's wife speaks out about allegations he sexually harassed women, and perhaps not a moment too soon. that's next. congratulations. congratulations. congratulations. today, the city of charlotte can use verizon technology to inspire businesses to conserve energy and monitor costs. making communities greener... congratulations. ... and buildings as valuable to the bottom line... whoa ! ... as the people inside them. congratulations. because when you add verizon to your company, you don't just add, yo