arabia to u.s. and they allegedly try to recruit mexican cartels. senator dianne feinstein is head of the intelligence kechlt listen to this. >> i think this is something that should be taken very seriously. i also think that there may be a chain of these things. it's hard for me to believe that there is just one plot involving the united states. i think we need to explore whether there are other plots going on into other countries. >> that's a warning from the chair woman of the security committee, dianne feinstein. also saying that iran was contemplating an act of war. >> this is different than anything that's happened before. to actually have an act of war carried out in the united states by iran. and that's what this was contemplated to be. >> let's discuss this with our cnn correspondent, jill doughtery. also joining us is the author of the book "drug cartel." you heard dianne feinstein say that she believes there was not just one but more plots. do we have any information that would lead her to come out of the briefings with just that? >> well, we do know that these plotters, according to u.s. officials, were thinking about -- i'm not quite sure how you can say how well planned it was. but they were thinking about contemplating actions against terrorist acts against the israeli embassy in washington and potentially in buenos aires, argentina. we do know that other people could have been involved. the treasury department says that he, the main person who was dealing with this, arbabsiar, said that he needed four people to carry out that attack. or maybe there weren't any. he was just naming a number. that was actually from the mexican defining how main peonye he needed. so there could be certainly other people or other plots involve involved, potentially. >> obviously we're talking about high level targets, the saudi ambassador to the united states, potentially the saudi embassy. those are top level. do they think the plot was top level or the targets were five stars but the planning walls shoddy? >> you know, we come back to that expression of disbelief about some of the aspects of this to a number of people it still doesn't make a lot of sense. why would they go to the mexicans? if they really wanted to kill somebody, potentially they could carry it out. well, it still doesn't completely make sense or hold water and that is what they are worried about. however, they do claim that they did have direct information that it was direct d ed at the highe levels. >> and when you hear members of congress come out of a classified briefing and say that the evidence was overwhelming, the evidence could be overwhelming that the suspects wanted to pull it off. does that surprise you, based porch your upon your expertise the cartels would even want to consider something like this? >> i'm absolutely surprised. especially for the money that you're talking about. $1.5 million. that's a drop in the bucket in how much they make on a daily basis. for them to carry out an attack on u.s. soil to draw that kind of attention from the mexican authorities and the mexican government, they would -- it would just be the end of them. i don't think they would be willing to take that risk for only $1.5 million. >> a member of the intelligence committee, she has for years warned about something just like this reaching out to these nefarious cartels who are certainly well armed and well financed to try to get them to protect violence. >> i think it's an interesting concept, for the iranians or any other organization to look to distance themselves from possible implication in such a plot, makes a lot of strategic sense. they have a presence in over 1,000 u.s. cities, they are already here. they have the networks and have the money and have the expertise. i can see why that would be an option that they have on the table. but when you get down to the details and nuts and bolts, it starts to look less and less practical. >> when you say that they have the expertise, let's hone in on what was alleged, to hire someone or some people to go into a restaurant in washington, d.c., 150, 200 people in the room with the goal of asas senating, either with guns or explosives, directing it at the saudi ambassador and the iranians have all said, who cares if there are members of congress or anyone else in the room. let them die, too. i know you're skeptical that they would do that in the nation's capital but do they have the expertise to do thatter? >> certainly they have the expertise to do it but that's not even their m. no, mexico. they will use assault weapons and maybe grenades if they want to scare somebody, throw grenades in front of a newspaper office. but whenever they want to kill someone, they have yet to blow up a building in mexico. why would they go to that length to murder someone in the united states. >> sylvia, stay with us. jill, as the administration decides how to go forward, one of the suspect is in iran. there is little or no hope of seeing that suspect in a u.s. court. what about beyond that, when it comes to additional sanctions? is the united states confident that they can get new sanctions put in place and any confidence at all that it will mean anything? >> you can say they are tapped out on sanctions but one of the problems that this administration would say is that some of the sanctions are not enforced by countries around the world. so what they are doing, a full-court press here at the state department, is to go to the united nations, certainly talk with members as the susan rice, the ambassador is doing, present as much of the evidence as they can and make the case that either they have to increase their own unilateral sanctions, these countries, or really enforce what is out there. but i think, john, it's important to note that one crucial part of this plot is the transfer of money, which apparently we understand from those documents came from iran, went to a third country financial institution and then made its way into new york and into the monitored by the fbi bank account. now, on wolf blitzer tonight, one of the top officials from treasury was saying that, in essence, these sanctions had been circumventing, that they are still looking into exactly how that happened. so whether it was willingly or unwillingly the third party bank, we're told, did not know that they were part of this kind of down payment on an assassination. but nevertheless, it shows how iran could circumvent these sanctions. >> a potential loophole. they may have to look at that. let me bring you back into the conversation, sylvia. it's inevitable in our system, that not only do members of congress comment but presidential candidates comment as well. look at rick perry who specifically draws attention to the allegation that what the iranians wanted to do was hire the drug cartels to come across the border and kill a diplomat on u.s. soil. let's listen. all right. obviously we don't have the sound from governor perry. what he said is we can not have national security until we have border security. he said that he thinks there's a southern border issue that may have allowed this plot to somehow succeed. is there any connection between this alleged plot, and if the mexican drawing cartels were hired by the iranians, were in on this deal, is there anything that has impact on whether or not they could have pulled it off? >> i don't think so. i mean, i have my own opinions about how border security can be strengthened. and whether they live in the united states and border states in order sole that they can remain safe from their rivals and from their enemies, they come and go freely across the border illegally. if they were the ones to be hired to carry out any sort of professional hit and attack in the united states, for them to come here and do it is not exactly a challenge. >> joining our conversation is the former secretary of homeland security, tom ridge, the first man in that job. thanks for your insights tonight. when you were the homeland security advisor and then the cabinet secretary, anything like this come across the intelligence? the iranians try to orchestrate a terror plot in the united states of america, question one, and question two, anybody trying to hire the mexican cartels to be their assassins? >> i think this is the most audacious example of the number one terror state to target the dignitaries and planning on united states soil is unprecedented, at least in the briefings that i received. and the fact of the matter is, people are acting surprised which is really rather remarkable when this terrorist state supports the destabilizing of hamas in israel, hezbollah in southern lebanon, they promote and support the militants that are killing our soldiers in afghanistan and in iraq and at the same time the state department is still under some notion that you can negotiate some kind of arrangement to make sure that they don't go nuclear and at the same time we keep a group on the foreign group even though we're opposed to the ahmadinejad. so it's inco-prehenceable in every conceivable way. >> could somebody lower down in the quds force say, i'm going to try to do this, i'm going to try to kwil the united states ambassador in washington and not have somebody high up know? >> john, it's a monstrous leap of faith and incredulous to think that somebody on the quds force would be operating unilaterally, either ahmadinejad himself. that is a force under the control of the hierarchy of the mullas within iran. i can't believe that anybody would be operating independently of that leadership. >> in all of the post 9/11 investigation that you went to, was there ever a hint that said iran is trying to launch an attack on our soil? >> my recollection is that there has never been anything this audacious, where we have that specific information targeting their terrorist activity to our soil and to take out foreign dignitaries. it's a first timer but, again, given where iran is in the world of terror and they are the number one promoter of it, in terms of training, financing, equipment, and the like, we should not, absolutely should not be surprised and we should also probably -- we can well imagine that this is one of several plots and time will tell whether this will lead us to others. >> members of congress came out of the classified briefing saying that there were additional plots. the mexican drug cartels grew in some part over the recent years, including your time in the united states government. i know that you were worried about them because of your duty as homeland security. was there intelligence chatter that would suggest that they were potentially intelligence for hire? >> i don't think there was any material lead that suggested it to us but the infrastructure of their cartels exist on both sides of the border and i think the previous expert mentioned that. so the notion that the iranian government through the quds force would try to engage a cartel which would engage one of their surrogates, one of their operatives in the united states to pull off this audacious act is completely logical in the scheme of as far as removed that they can get is part of their operational plan. it makes a lot of sense, if they can pull it off. >> secretary ridge, jill doughtery, thank you. we'll stay on top of this. next, did the attorney general of the united states lie to congress? [ tires screech ] [ crying ] [ applause ] [ laughs ] [ tires screech ] [ male announcer ] your life will have to flash by even faster. autodrive brakes on the cadillac srx activate after rain is detected to help improve braking performance. we don't just make luxury cars. we make cadillacs. what's vanishing deductible all about ? guys, it's demonstration time. let's blow carl's mind. okay, let's say i'm your insurance deductible. every year you don't have an accident, $100 vanishes. the next year, another $100. where am i going, carl ? the next year... that was weird. but awesome ! ♪ nationwide is on your side the world needs more energy. where's it going to come from? ♪ that's why right here, in australia, chevron is building one of the biggest natural gas projects in the world. enough power for a city the size of singapore for 50 years. what's it going to do to the planet? natural gas is the cleanest conventional fuel there is. we've got to be smart about this. it's a smart way to go. ♪ more breaking news tonight. the nation's high-ranking law enforcement officer lie to congress about his knowledge of a botched gun trafficking program? eric holder demanding they turn over communications to the fast and furious probe. they tried to track the illegal by allowing some u.s. guns to go south of the border. it was shut down after some of the guns showed up at murder scenes in mexico. house oversight committee darryl issa says that just a few weeks before his testimony last may. today's subpoenas should provide a paper trail. >> and when we do a subpoena, we get overly redacted documents. this is not the most transparent administration in most areas. however, we have a constitutional obligation and we will do it and according to the rules. >> let's dig deeper, joining us is elijah cummings and jason. congressman, this is the nation's highest ranking law enforcement officer. i'll grant you there are legitimate questions to be answered here. when people use terms like lying and incompetent, is that not a bit reckless? >> we have to be careful on how we articulate this. remember, we have two dead agents, 2,000 weapons unaccounted for, and i feel like we have been misled because for the attorney general to say that he just heard about it a couple weeks ago and the documents show otherwise, it doesn't added a up. >> let's listen to the tone jern back in may. >> when did you first know about the program officially known as "fast and furious"? >> i don't know about the exact date but probably over the last few weeks. >> he says over the last few weeks. that is on may 3rd, 2011. listen to the president of the united states. this is back in march. >> i heard on the news about this story that fast and furious, where allegedly guns were being run into mexico and atf knew about it but didn't apprehend those who had sent it. eric holder, as the attorney general, has been very clear that he knew nothing about it. we assigned an i.g., inspector general, to investigate it. >> it begs the question, how did the president know about this in march and how did the president know about the attorney general knew nothing about this in march when he says in may he learned about it a couple weeks ago? >> i think the attorney general will clear that up but the facts still remain that the attorney general sent a letter just this weekend explaining the situation and i think that needs to be cleared up. keep in mind, i believe that fast and furious was a very unfortunate situation, sadly, that ended in the death of two agents. but at the same time, i think we have to be very careful as to how we proceed. i mean, i think we need to go where the evidence leads but we've got a subpoena that has just been issued that is literally requesting tens of thousands of documents from the justice department and many of these documents are totally unrelated to the fast and furious. you've got to begin to ask the question, what is this about? is this about trying to score political points or is it about what this -- our committee is supposed to be about, that is government reform, and i emphasize, oversight and government reform. >> congressman chaffetz, are you asking too much and going from oversight into a political witch hunt? >> no. we want to make sure this never, ever happens again. we have two dead agents and we heard about the cartel having 100 guns. we've essentially gave guns to bad guys. and we want to make sure that this never, ever happens again. there are so many unanswered questions by this administration. and with the president knowing back in march that supposedly an attorney general holder did not know about this, just as you pointed out. >> it could be a matter of being more precise. the president said this in late march, the attorney general says this in may. he says a few weeks. it could be -- do you concede the point that he was not as precise as he should have been, that there's not a scandal here? >> well, you can see where people conclude that it's incompetence or flat outlying. >> not one single person has appeared before our committee saying that eric holder was briefed with regard to fast and furious and the horrible tactics that were used. not one. and -- >> but, again -- >> we have five memos with eric holder's name on them. >> you have memos but those have been cleared up in the letter sent to us where you say that there are moem mows that come across his desk every time. >> let me jump in and read from that letter. here's what the attorney general said, given the volume of material to which i must devote my attention, i do not and cannot read them cover to cover. here no issues concerning fast and furious were brought to my attention because it did not suggest a problem. you have legitimate questions but do you read everything that comes through in your office? >> well, you have lanny burr -- >> congressman, do you read everything that comes to you in your office? >> i should and i should be held accountable. this is a major, major investigation. and if you have the chief of staff and deputy attorney general and lanny brewer who got briefed not just once but twice on a regular basis and two dead agents, the president of the united states knew this back in march. how can can the attorney general back then in may state that he knew nothing about it until a couple of weeks ago? that does not add up. >> what does the attorney general have to do, if you're convinced that he can put this behind him, what does he have to do? >> he has to come up and say what he has said in his letters and make it clear under oath. but at the same time, i want to make sure that we are not harming any pending cases, that we are not putting fbi informants in jeopardy. and the fbi has already said that they are concerned about those kinds of things. and when i say in jeopardy, john, i mean possibly being killed. this is serious business. we have to be very careful with our words and accusing the attorney general, the highest ranking attorney in the country, calling him an accessory to murder, that's totally inappropriate to our committee and we should not be engaged in that. >> congressman chaffetz, are you putting additional lives at harm? >> no. we don't want to get in the way of any investigation. there has been no added explanation and it begs one and i agree with mr. cummings, until the attorney general comes before congress and testifies, these will continue to come up. >> when will that be? if you say that other top officials and critical time these guys do pretty critical and credible work, for sure a ranking democrat, you have friends in this administration. when can you get the attorney general up there? >> i don't run the committee, john. under personal issues and subpoenas, it's mr. issa. you'll have to ask him. >> appreciate your time today, gentlemen. thank you. >> thank you. still to come, built as a must reform debate and many conservatives labeled him mia. and tonight's number is personal for me and millions more who start their work day before they reach the office. that's next. d morning, veggie style. hmmm [ male announcer ] for half the calories -- plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8. [ male announcer ] we're not employers or employees. not white collar or blue collar or no collars. we are business in america. and every day we awake to the same challenges. but at prudential we're helping companies everywhere find new solutions to manage risk, capital and employee benefits, so