presidency in the republican party primary. >> ron paul is running for president again. if he had won the last time, guess what he wouldn't have done about bin laden? then, remember japan. >> this is a ticking time bomb. >> i'll ask him if the japanese government has learned from its mistakes. how bad in libya? 30,000 refugees crammed into leaking boats. a terrifying trip toll safety. some have made it. many have not. more on the way. body parts scattered across the street. that's how witnesses describe the gruesome scene in northwest pakistan after the taliban followed through on it's promise to exact revenge for osama bin laden's death. they waited until military recruits gathered outside the fort after just completing a nine-month training program. they were heading back home to their villages. then the back-to-back explosions hit. cnn's stan grand visited the scene earlier today and joins us from islamabad. it must have been gruesome. >> reporter: it certainly was a gruesome scene. one that people in pakistan have sadly grown all too used to. they have seen these attacks in the past and they are certainly ferocious when the taliban unleashes its might in such a way. there have been a lot of fear about this since the death of osama bin laden. a lot of trepidation just when would the militants strike, where would they strike? we saw today in a spectacular violent fashion. the taliban did this? that one word enough to strike terror into people here. the militants claiming responsibility for this carnage. revenge for the killing of osama bin laden, they say, and a warning of what is to come. both men were taliban. one came on a motorcycle. the other was walking, this man says. we shot him and then he ran and exploded the bomb. all around debris. a testament to the the attack. you have the strewn wreckage and this is the badge of the bike itself. the scores of wounded rushed to the nearby hospital. a scene of grief and chaos. the number of dead counted in the dozens in the hours after the attack rising throughout the day. witnesses tell of the moments when dual suicide bombers shattered the morning's peace. i heard an explosion and i rushed to the road. four minutes later there was another one. this man says i saw people dead and injured. even hours after this attack you can see the military is still very edgy. there's a line of them here. they've been pushing back any of the onlookers who were trying to come down to the scene and especially keeping a very close eye on these buildings along here. the attack has targeted this military training center. members of the frontier military police just finished a nine-month program. these vehicles lined up to collect them. this vehicle carrying a prayer that god would make their journey safe. a journey some would never take. almost all of the dead young recruits. victims of what some say is pakistan's double game. killed by the taliban to avenge osama bin laden at the very time the military here is denying claims it was hiding him. this goes to the very heart of the pakistan paradox. they deal with the militants on one hand to provide strategic debt that they feel they need to fend off attack from india but on the other hand going after other insurgent groups. if that sounds complicated, it is. at the same time people caught in the cross fire. >> in the wake of this horrific attack in pakistan, i got a chance to speak to imran khan. i spoke to him a short time ago and asked him how his government plans to target terrorists on its soil. thank you for joining me. >> pleasure. >> do you believe that your military and intelligence leadership is doing everything it can to root out every terrorist who resides in the nation of pakistan? >> put this this way. more pakistani soldiers have died than nato soldiers put together in iraq and afghanistan. the pakistan has been attached by terrorists. generals have died. the security agency has been attacked. the commando center has been attacked. so would pakistan army be patronizing terrorists who are attacking them? to me as a pakistani, i'm bewildered by all this. after the osama incident, we don't know what to believe anymore. that's why i believe it has to be now homegrown policy. pakistan should own up the war and not behave as a set of fighting america's war because america is giving pakistan the money because as i said, it is impeding our efforts in this war. it is increasing radicalization and pakistan is in a nutcracker situation. on one hand you have extremists hitting us and u.s. is pressure pakistan to do more in tribal areas where blowback is on the cities with more bombings and more suicide attacks. i don't think pakistan can last much longer. i don't think the country can take this much longer. >> mr. khan, we have spoken many times in the past. i'm sympathetic to some arguments. i think you did not answer my question directly and i hate to push you on this. you are correct. the pakistani army has been attacked. the isi has been attacked. pakistani people have suffered terribly. if not the case that there are elements within both the military and the intelligence services who are favorable and who have helped and assisted certain of the taliban and even al qaeda elements within pakistan for very subtle and important reasons in terms of your dynamic with india? >> let me just say one thing. i mean, i'm speculating here because i'm an outsider. i'm not in the government. but don't forget that not very long ago the same osama bin laden, al qaeda, were closely affiliated to the cia when they were fighting the soviets. and so when pakistan changed after 9/11, pakistan recognized the taliban government so suddenly after 9/11 pakistan reversed this policy. it's possible that there are members of the security forces who would have still kept connections with them. just because the government changes policy it's possible that within security forces there would be elements that might not have changed. the fact of the matter is the country is going down. we cannot sustain this much longer. >> mr. khan, i am sympathetic to "your world todayour argument t must change. we believe it's almost a certainty that there are elements of isi and military that have been helping and assisting al qaeda and the taliban. in that context was it not reasonable for president obama to act as he did to get rid of osama bin laden to get rid of a terrorist who we now know was continuing to plot attacks against the united states? >> looking at it from the pakistani point of view. surely here's a country which has sacrificed far more than americans. remember 34,000 dead here. now should this after all these sacrifices should not pakistan have taken him out. if the ally for which pakistan is fighting this war, if it does not trust pakistan, where does that leave us? i'm talking now as a citizen of pakistan. where does that leave pakistanis? what are we? are we friends or enemies? who are we giving these sacrifices for? we did not have any suicide attacks in pakistan before 2004. we had no militant taliban in pakistan. and here is a country which had 500 bomb blasts last year. where do we go from here? i as a citizen of the country ask myself the question can the country take this much longer? your point is that you think pakistan is not a trustworthy ally. i'm saying that it's about time pakistan had a government which told the americans we don't want any aid. we'll deal with it ourselves. we will ensure there's no terrorism from pakistani soil. we have a much better chance of dealing with the terrorism if it's a sovereign credible pakistani government rather than a puppet government which is a government that's not sovereign and doesn't have any credibility with the u.s. or militants. it doesn't have a chance of engaging with certain elements amongst the terrorists who it can disassociate from and al qaeda. most of the people who are fighting today, 95% of the people who are fighting are own tribal people who are neither terrorists nor religious fundamentalists and finding as a result of pakistani military operations in the tribal area. they should have peace talks with them and then isolate al qaeda. >> as you know, i'm sympathetic as i've said to certain of your arguments about how this is imposing enormous costs upon the pakistani government and pakistani people and a change in strategy is necessary. i did not say pakistani government could not be trusted. i said there are elements within the isi and military as you almost conceded earlier that could not be trusted and hence what the president did was absolutely right and justified. i think we'll have to continue this conversation down the road. clearly we need a new strategy. we need a way to confront terrorism. we need a way to confront the militancy that is rising and the cost upon the pakistani people. why do you not want $21 billion of u.s. aid? i think we could agree that rebuilding the pakistani economy, bringing it into the modern era, spreading education and all of the things you can do with foreign aid will only assist the pakistani population. why do you not want this money? >> the people of pakistan are dying under this war on terror. this aid is being given to us to fight this war. unfortunately if pakistan is considered a hired gun of the u.s., it reduces its capability to win this war on terror. if this becomes pakistan's war, i think pakistan will win the war. if it's perceived that pakistan army is a mercenary army of the u.s., we have no chance of winning. >> i agree the scale of human tragedy is beyond words. we all share the concerns about that. something you just said i am troubled by. you said if it is the pakistani war against terror, you will win. at the same time the leader of your military is refusing to pursue the leaders of al qaeda and some of the most violent terrorist groups in pakistan. why should we in the united states have confidence that the pakistani military is going to do everything it can do to pursue terrorists? >> well, this is why i'm saying the fact u.s. thinks pakistan military is playing a double game can only be because they want the u.s. money and at the same time they are patronizing terrorists. i guess that's what the pakistan army is being accused of. if we don't take any aid, if we have a credible government, the interest is there should be no terrorism from pakistani soil. a credible government should say this is your concern. we'll make sure there's no terrorism from our soil. we don't need your aid because the moment we get your aid we are perceived as agents of america and they target pakistan because pakistan is perceived as u.s. agents. america and its agents. that's why you see the carnage that is taking place today. that's why 34,000 pakistanis are dying and extremism and radicalization is increasing in our society. if a credible government gives u.s. undertaking, there won't be any terrorism from our soil. u.s. should be happy with that. and then pakistan should isolate the real terrorists. that's the ones who threaten u.s. or al qaeda. not the tribal people of pakistan. >> all right. thank you for fascinating conversation. >> thank you. >> coming up, how would presidential candidate ron paul handle the bin laden raid differently if he were president. the answer might shock you. stay with us. nouncer ] in 2011, at&t is at work, building up our wireless network all across america. we're adding new cell sites... increasing network capacity, and investing billions of dollars to improve your wireless network experience. from a single phone call to the most advanced data download, we're covering more people in more places than ever before in an effort to give you the best network possible. at&t. rethink possible. in an effort to give you the best network possible. it's true. you never forget your first subaru. so i take one a day men's 50+ advantage. as a manager, my team counts on me to stay focused. it's the only complete multivitamin with ginkgo to support memory and concentration. plus it supports heart health. [ bat cracks ] that's a hit. one a day men's. i used to not travel very much, but then i discovered hotwire. now, i use all my vacation days. i can afford to visit my folks for the holidays. and reconnect with my girlfriends in vegas. because i get ridiculously low prices on all my trips. you see, when hotels have unsold rooms, they use hotwire to fill them, so i get 4-star hotels for up to half off. now i can afford a romantic trip to new orleans. hi honey! ♪ h-o-t-w-i-r-e... ♪ hotwire.com ron paul's presidential campaign in 2008 was a grassroots phenomenon that turned him from a curiosity into a serious political figure. today as he announces candidacy for the 2012 republican nomination, some views may startle you. he joins me now. welcome back, congressman. >> thank you. good to be with you. >> first, congratulations on your announcement. good luck. i want to say that to everybody who gets into the fray of politics. i wish you all the best. >> okay. thank you. >> i want to begin by quoting back to something you said about the raid that captured and killed osama bin laden and this is a direct quote from what you said. you said i don't think it was necessary. no. it absolutely was not necessary. i would suggest the way they got khalid shaikh mohammed we went and cooperated with pakistan. are you really suggesting, sir, that we should have just said to the pakistanis, work with us. we now know that bin laden was sitting there plotting additional attacks and you don't think this was the right thing to do? >> no. i think -- you know, we don't know all of the details. from the information i have i think it could have been done better. we cooperated before and if you don't recognize that a sovereign nation is important, then all you do is build enemies so today there was retaliation and a lot of people were killed. hatred is being built up. i think we're working toward a stage that the resentment will be so strong that we'll be invading and occupying pakistan. last thing in the world we need. it isn't like pakistan has refused to help us. they have cooperated with us before. we've captured quite a few who have been brought here. the people involved in the first bombing of the towers. they were brought to trial. some were executed. i don't know what's so wrong with that. what would be so terribly wrong with saying that maybe we ought to interrogate bin laden. is that such a horrible suggestion? >> congressman, i want to make it clear. if you had been sitting there in the oval office with the situation room with the same evidence that was presented to osama bin laden, would you not have ordered the raid that he ordered? >> i would have said what i got done telling you. i would have worked with the government of pakistan. >> i want to switch gears. i'll quote you directly. i'm on the gulf coast. i have a house on the beach or had one recently. i don't think someone in new york or new hampshire or iowa has to pay for my flood on the gulf coast. you then went on to say you don't think fema should be there to help out folks who suffer in the tornados, the floods, these natural disasters that wreak havoc and have reek wreaked hav along the mississippi and southeast? >> there's no authority for it. >> no authority where? >> there's no constitutional authority. it's bad economics especially. >> no constitutional authority. just so we understand, we'll get to economics in a seconds. no constitutional authority to set up fema is what you're saying? >> that's what i'm saying. let me answer my question. there's no constitution to set up an authority that you take money from one state and give it to somebody else because they've been injured. let me make the important economic point. if you want -- if i want to build my house on the beach and i can't get insurance, why should i get subsidized insurance to build my house in dangerous area. when you can't get private insurance because it's so expensive, it's telling you something. why should people build there and pass on the penalty to somebody else who don't get to live on the beach? that makes no sense whatsoever. this idea that we have this moral obligation, what about the moral obligation to allow people to keep what they earn and assume responsibility for themselves. this is precisely a program that is very similar to so many others that has gotten us into this mess. >> let me read to you something else that you said. you said that government they have nothing. everything they get and they want to give to someone else they have to steal it from somebody. that's called taxation. is taxation theft in your mind? >> yes, it is. you steal from a productive individual and give it to somebody else. >> it is theft -- i want to understand this. we've had lots of conversations in the past. i always enjoy them. i just want folks to understand your notion that taxation that is there to pay for things such as national defense or environmental cleanups or fema, that is theft in your view. >> when you take the income from other people it is. the founders didn't believe in it. it was not an income tax. that's a recent event. not even 100 years old. hasn't served us well. all it has done is give us a government out of control. a government that has an entitlement system that there is no way they'll pay for it. it's based on an immoral president that government takes and they can't produce anything and they take it from somebody else and that's a moral issue. >> taxation was embedded in the very foundation of the constitution. >> not income tax. >> income tax related to whether it would be apportioned on a per capita basis or vary on the magnitude of one's income. it is part of the constitution. why is that now theft? >> because you are taking money unfairly in the way we enforce the income tax is highly abusive because we don't honor and respect -- >> why? >> you are guilty until proven innocent. you have to keep records and testify against yourself. you are a lawyer. you should understand that. >> you're not guilty until proven innocent. >> you have to prove your innocence -- >> wait a minute. i'm no fan of the irs more than anybody else. i pay my taxes and pay them with pride because it pays for education and national defense and things that we do around the world. that's what being a citizen and being part of a community is about, isn't it? >> you're a good volunteer. >> as i said at the top. congratulations. even though my income tax what you view as theft are used to pay your salary, i'm proud to pay them. i got to tell you. >> once it was said that taxes were what we pay for civilization and look at our economy and what we're doing today. i don't think we've gotten a very good deal. not a good deal. >> all right. congressman paul, thank you for your time. good luck. coming up, japan's nuclear crisis turns out to be worst than we originally thought. the details when we return. stay with us. [ male announcer ] this is lara. her morning begins with arthritis pain. that's a coffee and two pills. the afternoon tour begins with more pain and more pills. the evening guests arrive. back to sore knees. back to more pills. the day is done but hang on... her doctor recommended aleve. just 2 pills can keep arthritis pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is lara who chose 2 aleve and fewer pills for a day free of pain. and get the all day pain relief of aleve in liquid gels. a new report out of japan says damage to reactor number one was much worse than originally thought and it was leaking water most likely leaving those dangerous fuel rods exposed. yet some residents were recently allowed back in to the evacuation area to gather personal belongings. this is the latest in a string of what seemed to be conflicting information and actions out of japan. to help us cut through this do